Shot String | More to the Story | Shotgun Series pt 6
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- čas přidán 4. 10. 2022
- Does the Patternmaster Choke tube really shorten the shot-string? AND does the shot-string really matter? These are two questions we tackle on this video.
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Joel Strickland (@mrproducersir) is a lifelong waterfowler, duck hunting guide and producer/director in the film and television industry.
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Thanks for watching! Please let me know your thoughts about what you saw.
can you test black cloud flight control wads in cylinder bore shotgun to see how well the wad keeps the shot together before it sets the shot free and does it really turn a riot shotgun into a modified choked. seen a couple of videos of people taking ducks with a 18.5" gun.
Whose butt hurts worse, the duck I was a few feet behind last year when I pulled the trigger or pattern master owners after watching this video.
This series is absolutely great! After all this research, what tube/load are you going to pick for this season Joel?
Awesome video. I used a pattern master on my SX2 and never liked it. I like my factory chokes on my new A5 and will definitely continue to use them now. But Please! Now do a video with a flight control wad now. That is another great question between which wad does better, flight control or 3/4 wad.
@@chrisr2925 I don't own a pattern master choke , but from what I've seen in countless patterning demonstrations online they seem to pattern very well. They shouldn't advertise a shorter shot string unless it's shorter. This shot string stuff is really cool to watch and very interesting, but when it comes to putting birds down it is almost insignificant. No matter how long or short it is all the shot hits faster than you can blink. So to me the most important thing is still how well your choke patterns.
The camera doesn’t lie. Love what your doing. Instead of just repeating fudlore you are putting it to the test. Applause.
Thanks!
@Andy Gibbs How come it patterns better than a three inch? Any ideas on the why?
@@SurvivingDuckSeason Hey this is Hunter Borgers . I received a notification from surviving duck season after commenting on a video, and it said that I won a firearm. Please let me know if this is true.
@@TheGravySluprinBaptist I received the same notification. If you click on the reply nothing comes up. But if you go to your notifications and click on the icon for @Surviving Duck Season you will notice that it brings you to a page with no content or no subscribers. Its a total SCAM...someone is hacking his page. Was the gun an SKB RS300? laying on a grey couch? 🙄
@@blstic2a Thank you very much. I did do that already and noticed he had one subscriber. I asked about that and he mentioned that was because it was his giveaway platform. Scam!
This level of time, research, commitment and knowledge is unreal … love how everything in this video is physics based
I'm so glad someone finally proved length doesn't matter. Sending this to my wife right now!! 🤣😂
Good luck convincing her of that.lol
Choke tube wad stripper
You’re going down in history with this series. Thanks for educating all of us!
Thanks! Lets change the world and pattern our guns💪🏻👍🏻👊🏻
I really like the way Joel presents the factual information and then lets everyone decide for themselves. Wish the news media in general, especially the big networks, would do the same. This is refreshing, and he is well spoken. Nice job Joel. I would like to meet you one day.
12 minutes in and I am still all jittery about this information like it's opening day of duck season. THIS IS FANTASTIC!!! Thank you Joel for all of your Blood, Sweat, and Treasure in producing this series and adding to what men like the Late-Great Bob Brister and Tom Roster have done in the past for new and seasoned wing shooters alike.
I had a very similar conversation with a shotgun mentor almost 10 years ago. We did the math on high speed loads vs standard, and talked about choke constrictions and marketing. We actually patterned my gun [sbe2] with the factory chokes, my duck loads, and the target loads i was shooting for practice. To find the right combo at duck range 40yrds. He was right about everything, and this series is bringing that knowledge to the people!
Can we thank Joel for the first that I know of CZcams guy that isn't clickbait ,no stupid screen grabs or thumbnails. Doesn't have a ridiculous hunting personality . No big beard headbands stupid hair nothing like duck dynasty or rut Daniels someone respectable . No one out there really sticks out unless they have some dumb persona about them and thank God Joel doesn't . This guy is giving us scientific premium free informative content that is really educational and entertaining. I thank you for posting this series. I'd love to see you show on some of your patterning series where your not just shooting a duck target but actually show the bone structure of the bird. It's one thing to have some pellets in the wing feathers but hitting them in those feathers won't knock them down or kill them . I wish someone made a target that had the skeletal structure added to their target. It would be informative if he compared with testing the different brands of clothes we wear. Such as have some type of weather tests of clothes. Like sitka,kuiu,bass pro/Cabela's ,drake,first lite and have an egg inside those jackets or paper towels and measure the temperature of keeping it warm and how wet it gets . We don't see anything like that out there and just go by what the manufacturer says and there's some stuff I've bought I wish someone had hard facts out there before I bought
Great video! Makes you wonder how much of shotgunning is just confidence. I know when I start questioning my lead, changing aiming point, switching chokes mid hunt things just seem to get worse. But when I’m confident in my shooting and just focus on getting a good shoulder on the gun things seem to go much better! Thanks again for all the info!
That is certainly an aspect I plan to talk about on a video. 👍🏻😬
Oh boy.
You think...you miss.
Just grab gun and quickly pow ...kill a duck and I can not remember a "sight picture". I just focus on the duck's bill, point the gun, and jerk the trigger. Lousy form but bang its dead. Shot in the head. If I start thinking and aiming I will miss every time.
Like our grandads did it.
@@SurvivingDuckSeason I received a text on here from surviving Texas in saying that I want to firearm. Can you let me know if this is legitimate? Thank you
I think you got it on the head most of the products out there are absolutely good enough to get the job done. If “we” the hunters just take a deep breath and let that Duck fever go for just a moment we will kill more ducks. Just like deer hunting even a rifle that shoots a 3 inch group at 100 yards will kill a deer ever single time if the shooter does their part. Yet we all freak out if our rifle doesn’t shoot 1 inch or less. It’s the Indian not the arrow 90% of the time.
It’s great to see real data on topics that have always been debated with hearsay and long-lost “data”. Dispelling myths with high quality videos… this channel deserves way more attention. Thank for all the hard work Joel.
Joel. I see George from new hunters guide gave you a great shout out, how nice. 👍
I knew these tubes were smoke and mirrors. Thanks for proving that. There's only one thing that helps put game in the bag, practice!!
BRAVO ZULU! Joel. Absolutely first class. First a proper tribute to Olin and Mrs. Brister for her courage and confidence. Nicely done. Next a compelling and entertaining explanation that creative problem solving is best done in a pleasing natural environment while daydreaming. Brilliant. Totally agree pattern density and uniformity are more important than string length. I still submit string length is quite relevant. Before we get exterior ballistics contaminated with people, please check my math. I enjoy skeet and "think" I know the following: 4" diameter clays travel 45mph or 800 inches per second for a while. My soft reloads are about 1000fps. 12000 inches per second. A 30" dense pattern at 21 yards will smoke the center clay if seven of them are flying edge to edge inside that circle. It will also break or chip the 3 in front and 3 behind if the lead is perfect and the shot all arrives at exactly the same time (no string) If there is no string a shooter can be off +/- 12" in lead and still hit. (I don't want to cripple any ducks, but let's keep ducks out for now). Now consider a 10' string takes about 10 milliseconds to pass through the target plane. To my mind that adds two more clays to the dead zone. It sounds as if it is so fast it doesn't matter but I have seen collegiate international shooters acquire a random target, mount and break in 17 milliseconds. I think it would be unreasonable to underestimate string length for clay birds. Now bring in people and psychology, I submit the most important factor is confidence. I think we can agree that the best shooting occurs in the subconscious, but many shots are taken while consciously thinking. The subconscious operates at speeds of different orders of magnitude than the conscious mind and is likely the key to success in the "zone". I have never used or even seen a "patternmaster" but it seems people believe in them. An interesting experiment would be to have a believer get comfortable breaking full crossers and then tell them you are changing the choke. In the experiment, appear to change it but reinstall the same choke. I bet a case of ammo the change in confidence would diminish the score. The value of confidence is hard to overstate. In closing I would like to quote D Kahneman in his landmark book "Thinking fast and slow" In a classic experiment he demonstrates how easily and frequently we can be blind to the obvious and also blind to our blindness. Your excellent presentation makes a very important point that the essence of science is to question. Do not trust the "science", trust the scientific method. Only free men own guns. Thanks again Joel to you, your team, and Phantom.
Great video! When I learned years ago (by doing the math) that the difference in impact on a target between a long and short shot string is measured in milliseconds, I stopped caring about shot strings.
Joel, so great. Bad ass shooting both shotguns at those Mountain Dew cans! Thanks for the info
It would be great to see a test of a BlindSide shell. The cube shape of the shot might add some interesting thoughts to this conversation. Much appreciate the effort and time you have put into this project. Way to go!
Unfortunately I'm a month late but I used a Patternmaster last year and had good luck. I honestly did believe their claims of a shorter shot string, but before waterfowl season I patterned a bunch of different waterfowl chokes and moved on from the Patternmaster for a different choke that just throws a much better pattern with any load we shot through it. I'm honestly really Impressed with that Fiocchi steel load.
This is absolutely fantastic. I was a pattern master fan but now I’ve realized I’ve spent $100 on a choke that doesn’t help like it advertises. Still throws a great 2D pattern on paper but the factory choke might’ve done just the same. Thank you Joel, this is awesome.
don’t feel bad buddy, i fell for it too. but hey at least it looks cool! 😂
Amazing video Joel!!
30 minute video on shot string? I haven't got time for that, but I'll see how far I get... well, I watched the entire thing. Super interesting information. Thank you for putting this together.
I use Trulock extended blackened ported stainless steel improved cylinder and improved modified chokes in my Browning Feather 12 gauge with a 26 inch barrel over and under shotgun weighing 6 pounds and 7 ounces. I trust evenly dispersed pellets in a pattern. Trulock delivers!!!
Being a student of shotshell performance I applaud you and your staff for taking the marketing out of claims being made !
TOF is one of the things most shooters have a problem with as either a bird or clay would have a hard time competing with
todays ammo offerings . Lock times come into play also but human consistency still is , the main factor .
Love your research , continue enlightening all of us , Please ?
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I've been getting the same statements from Patternmaster for years with NO PROOF... because they didn't want to see it. Camera doesn't lie.
Thank you for correlating the the visual results from the previous episode to basic math. As an engineer, the math for shot string never correlated to anything that was significantly beneficial. However, conveying that message to hunters can be difficult and also providing evidence besides the math was a barrier. This blends them both well as you can see the differences both visually and mathematically. If you do delve into energy transfer on targets, please use the math as you did here to help everyone understand the results. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Mike. People want to see with their eyes. When we can provide the math and the visuals too, it convinces most intelligent people. lol. Thanks for the comments.
Thank you for putting time, $, & effort into this! This is going to a big hit!!! Good work!
Thanks for all the money and effort your putting into this .
the sincerity of tryin to show the facts is amazing thank you joel
Thanks for the testing Joel. Was really waiting for this one. I am one of those guys that has two Patternmaster chokes in two guns. Was always skeptical of their claims as even when I asked them for proof they could not provide it.
The chokes pattern well in both my guns so I will continue to use them. Moving forward though I don’t think I would recommend them to friends as I hate the ports on them, they are very expensive, and they don’t seem to pattern any better than Carlsons which are half the price.
Happy to finally have real data to answer the shot string claims.
After your first video I decided to test my pattern master code black duck out on paper. After being told by boss that it wasn’t recommended and by pattern master that it was good to go, I had to find out for myself. After shooting paper, I could definitely tell that I had several fragmented bismuth shot from that pattern master. Was even able to pluck a piece of fragmented bismuth out of PAPER. Stuck my factory full back in for this season. Thanks again for the video series man. Really spreading some factual knowledge and information rather than hear say.
Hey Joel. I really appreciate your insight. I wanted to compliment you on your fact based opinions and EQ. Sadly, I’ve noticed that the majority of fellow waterfowlers suffer from a lack of EQ and critical thinking when it comes to wingshooting and ethics. I really appreciate the candor and overall communication style you employ. Keep up the good work 👍🏻
The longer forcing cone and over bored barrel improves patterns. The new soft gel recoil pad reduces recoil by 42.85%. The latest semi auto 12 ga can shoot 3 shots in the blink of an eye. P.T. Barnum would be proud.
I appreciate the time and care taken here... you got a sub from me!
Time to test the Kick’s high flyer next haha. I’ve had it on for years now, probably 7 years. I like the ext ported look instead of the flushed look. Haven’t ever bothered to change it.
I just want to say Mr. Joel! I've been watching surviving duck season for 2 years now. Thank you for all the hard work you are doing and keep it up. I really enjoy these shotgun and shell videos. Knowledge is power and thanks for sharing it.
There was test done some years ago using a very high speed Xray that showed the shot travelling down the Barell and Exiting, they did Cyl to Full choke but it did not go much more than a few of metres from the Barell, Full Choke showed the shot and the wad entering the begining of the choke and it showed the unrestrained shot from the center of the shot column strining out of the barell and by the time the wad exited the barell the shot string was already in the air, Cylinder Choke showed the wad and the shot in the air out of the barell with the wad petals peeling away and leaving a perfect drum of shot which wind resistance then quickly opened the shot up and spreading very quickly, If you were to repeat these tests I would recommend you try a full choke tube, I think the results regarding the claims made by the manufacturer of said tubes will still be the same, but using Full choke which stretches the shot stream out will make it much more clear in the way the shot stream develops from a full choke, Many many years ago similar tests were done using Spark Photography, these were still photos and were done to prove what was happening with chokes. William Wellingto Greener Perfected choke boring which could be proven with pattern sheets at specific distances but no one could tell you wahat was actually happening in the air, With modern technology this camera tells the whole story
This is the best demonstration of shot stringing I have come across, well done. Early gunsmiths did measure shot string length quite effectively, some even using rotating disc pattern plates, but they couldn't see what your camera has shown us. I have been trying to convince my clients that shot string length is irrelevant for years. B K Webster Gunsmith UK.
Please murder the 3 1/2" 12 gauge marketing while you're at it.
3.5” 12 gauge is awesome. But only in a 10 gauge bore. It is better!
@@bryanheimann537010 gauge with 10 gauge bore is awesome too
It’s just super cool to have the information. Relating facts to reality is hard. Having information is just plain cool.
Thank you!
Whether the shot string matters much or not, this was REALLY interesting.
Fantastic series, must say, one of the best hunting videos on youtube in years! (actual learning)
Hands down the best research on shotgun strings EVER!. But like the gentelman said on the phone, "Dence and consistant shot pattern is the most important. I reaally hope when you are all said and done with this research that you please put ALL your findings on a chart so we can all see exactly what you have accomplished. I will say, this is by far the BEST video you or anyone has put on youtube in regards to in depth research and video. Thank you so much for your time and attention to detail.
Joel, as a tv / film guy, this has to be your mega geek out project of your life! 🤣As much time as you had to put into this, your better half must have a heart of gold. WPS! GHG!
Yes! On all accounts 👍🏻💪🏻👊🏻
I Have had 3 pattern master choke tubes over the past 14 years code black and the original black tube all of them were with the stud rings inside. I bought pattern master with the idea of shorten my shot string because I wanted to cripple less birds hit the birds hard or miss cleanly ( I hunt on a public refugee in CA). However, I still would have some crippled birds which is likely to my shooting error more than anything. Watching this video proves that pattern master does not do what it claims it does and with some loads it actually lengthen the shot string. However, this video also open my eyes to the fact that shot string really doesn't matter as much as seen from the mathematical examples of a duck crossing the shot string at the end of the video. what's important that I HAVE LEARNED FROM WATCHING ALL THESE VIDEOS.
1. Pattern your gun for the choke tube and ammo you are using. And make sure this pattern is consistent. to help visualize the pattern in flight
2. Consider density
I like to nerd out on videos just like these. The fact that it’s all tied to a hobby of mine that no one else in the slowmo/“scientific” community puts any time into making makes it all the more unique and interesting. Great info with a ‘Boss’ Easter egg! God Bless You!
Great video man!
Joel, great work! As you say….pattern your gun and have a gun that fits properly. Those two things (and BOSS shells) provide the best success!! G Keyes
Kudos for taking on the shot string (myth/unicorn/truth?). One thought I had when viewing was that perhaps the Patternmaster tube, as a wad-stripper, might have been experiencing a buildup of plastic as the trials went on which resulted in increasingly longer strings. Of course I’m assuming you were not thoroughly cleaning the Pattermaster tube after each shot. In any case, I’m thinking that the Patternmaster would likely experience a similar buildup on a day afield so perhaps the question is irrelevant. Regardless - I’m interested in your findings if for no other reason than having a ready-made excuse to tell my dog after my next missed duck. Who am I kidding - he stopped believing me long ago ;)
You’re right the build up is excessive. But we didn’t notice any difference after cleanings. It didn’t take but 6 or 8 shots before we noticed build up.
“Well when you think about it the perfect scenario is, you’re set up and the ducks are comin in head on. Now the point of leadin them on the fly by is to give every last pellet a shot at vitals. Now it depends on if the patterns more vertical or horizontal. And that is why we pattern our guns. Horizontally lead em, vertically bust em.”-pawpaw
THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.
What I have seen in the two shot string videos is what I have suspected for a while now, and what Joel and Brandon Cereke discussed: If the length of shot strings have a difference, it is not enough of a difference to make a difference. Perhaps at 80+ yards it would matter, but none of us are going to be taking those kinds of shots responsibly even with exceptional patterning 10ga's packed with a heavy load of TSS-18. As Brandon stated, Pattern Density and Shot Material mater more than shot string. I believe that there still may be a story to reveal on how patterns may be determined by shot string, but again it looks to be as though there are so many variables and so few really hard control points that I doubt we will ever really be able to pin it down.
The amazing part about shotgunning is how many variables can come into play to make a measurable difference, and how many will never matter. It is such a complex method of dispatching game and striking down aerial targets with a simple premise; load tube with explosive and "rocks", shoot in front of bird. That's the cave man version, and we have been doing it for centuries but never really knowing why it works when we do it correctly. Having gone through a lot of load development for the 10ga magnum specifically, it has been very interesting to see how consistent and inconsistent different load types can be. Sometimes a choke and gun just can't seem to throw one bad pattern. Other times it seems like you can't achieve a goal of a decent pattern and velocity no matter what you do, and there is no way to really explain it, you just guess your way to success.
This series is invaluable. There is so much information to study and consider, for new and seasoned wing shooters alike. It takes everything that you will read from the Bob Brister's, Tom Roster's, Phil Bourjaly's, and so many other well regarded subject matter experts of the days of old and today and adds to it. New data from tests such as these helps us challenge and refine our theories and work to create better equipment and know what is snake oil and what is truth when it comes to the tools we choose to use. Absolutely incredible.
Great (research) on shot string in my opinion pattern consistency is the key to success
Thanks to all that made this video possible
Super interesting. This is something I've wondered for a long time. I think a great test for the slow mo cam would be to somehow launch a target at 40mph and shoot it, seeing how much the target "moves through" the string as it travels, or if the different length in string makes for a better or worse hit. Probably almost impossible to set that test up with consistently repeatable parameters, but it would really show if the length of the string helps or hurts. Overall though, I mostly agree with the guy from BOSS, density and uniformity of a pattern most likely far outweigh the importance of the length of the string. Great work again!
Great video. I am one of those Patternmaster lovers. I have been shooting the Code Black Duck for about 7 years through 3 different Browning Maxus's. Currently Maxus 2. I primarily shoot ducks under 30 yards with the cheapest steel ammo I can find. I shoot #3s early season and #2s late season. I have pattern-tested all the ammo I use at 25yards and don't see much of a difference between the brands for example 72 pellet count vs 65. I am convinced that the ammo hits the bird with more kinetic energy using the Patternmaster. I would like to see a gel block test with a stock choke vs Patternmaster same load. Since the Fiocchi had such a short string compare it to a load with a long string in a gel block test to see if there is a penetration difference keeping in mind, they are the same speed, charge and size. Keep up the great content.
Thanks Joel, you've made me late for work! 🤣🤣🤣👌
Whoops!😅
@@SurvivingDuckSeason joking aside Joel, absolutely fascinating.
I bought a pattern master code black goose . I like the pattern from it when you put it on paper. I actually went back to my factory mod choke out of my sx4 because I couldn't kill anything with the pattern master. I saw alot of feathers with the pattern master you could tell the birds were getting hit with pellets but not enough to being them down on passing shots.
So awesome. I was about to comment about using math for the end all opinion on shot string vs a birds flight then you answered that for me. You're truly leaving nothing out of this test! Cant wait for the next one
Wow, great info. Need more people like you setting the record straight. Thanks for all that you do. #1 fan
Here is your Shot String Challenge! Take the loads that produced the shortest strings and the loads that produced the longest hunting. Record clean kills vs not killed. I would have to believe the load putting most of its energy on target at the same time to be more effective than one that doesn’t. Time and distance math when your shooting a target that has a small vital area means you need all that energy there to have terminal performance. I will take what I see in the natural world over science and 1 dimensional math on this one. Great work showing all this testing.
Thanks for a great series of videos. I am a clay target shooter and the content of your shot string video is often discussed amongst clay shooters. When you state that the length of the shot string does not matter for wild fowling, I think it sure does for clay shooting. When shooting at crossers, they come at a constant angle and a constant speed, so the only variable, once one has settled on a cartridge and the choke, is the reaction time of the shooter, i suppose... So what clay shooters are trying to master is the lead of those targets. If a shooter can get help from a longer shot string to adjust for the inaccurate lead (by applying more lead and let the shot string length allow more room for errors), would a longer shot string not help the shooter, you think?
100% correct. The shot string doesn’t matter on a stationary target. It matters when the target is moving. It matters a great deal. He kind of missed the whole point
Joel, thank you so much for this series it makes so much sense. I've been designing and reloading my own duck loads for 30 years. Can't wait to get back out and do some more patterning and testing.
I’ve been shooting Patternmaster and Rhino chokes. I got decent patterns with Patternmaster but out of my shotguns I get a better pattern with Rhino. I’m absolutely shocked the shot string isn’t what they claimed, to be honest I’m a little disappointed. I don’t think shot sting matters as much as people think. If you get the correct lead and practice shooting you’ll knock ducks out of the sky.! Great work my friend, this series is incredibly informative.!
The key is the spread of time between first pellet on target and last pellet on target. That number, when compared to the speed of the target gives you the window where a load is more or less "forgiving" of a hunter's aim when they pull the trigger. A longer shot string kind of helps a hunter hit the target by giving them a longer window for the bird to fly into the pattern.
Then there's terminal ballistics and kinetic energy delivered to the target. That's where I believe a short shot string would really help. The more weight you can deliver on target at a shorter period of time, in theory, has a higher KE and would be what I consider more likely to fold the bird. Each pellet has "X" amount of energy... delivering more energy quicker is a good thing. Right?
This is quality stuff! Thank you. I had so much hope for BOSS shotshells but that 16ft shot string leaves some room for improvement. I was one who believed in the short shot string marketing of the Patternmaster but you've unraveled that quite convincingly.
@survivingduckseason. I really would like to thank you for the recent series and all of your videos. I have been hunting big game for the last 10 years and now wanting to get into waterfowl. You have really taught me alot, and have gave me great advice on multiple things. From shotguns, gear. decoy spread, ammo, etc. I can say now that I am more confident in my purchases and waterfowling. Keep up the amazing work brother 💪
When I bought my SX4, I also bought 5 different choke tubes to pattern. Out of the 5, the Patternmaster gave me the best group for the loads I shoot. I wonder though, as your swinging a gun and firing at a bird (crossing shot), how does the shot string spread out laterally as it flys through the sky? Your videos did an excellent job explaining the shot string while shooting at a stationary target, but I would be interested to see how the string moves laterally…
The best damn video on waterfowl loads I’ve ever seen
All the pellets basically leave the barrel together. And their trajectory is basically set at that point. So they wouldn’t spread out laterally any more than if you were shooting at a fixed target.
Basically the moment they leave the gun they’re only going to go straight as you are no longer accelerating them in the horizontal plane. And from the video it’s clear they’re all within an inch or two at that moment
Yes 🙌 PKEASE SHOW us this in
SLOW-MO.
I am in awe at what you are doing with your shot string video series. Keep it going,
I've been hunting for 50 years but I am brand new to waterfowl hunting. This non-lead ammo is very strange to me and I'm having trouble knocking birds out of the air. I was about to go down the choke tube rabbit hole looking for the magic fix. But after watching this and the previous videos in the series, I've been reminded to watch out for the kool-aid tactics and to pay more attention to the basics. Rather than throw money at the problem I'm going to spend a lot of time putting holes in paper until I determine what I am doing wrong with my gun. Maybe my Browning 10gage from the 90s is not the right tool for this task or maybe the ammo I'm using isn't compatible with how I shoot or maybe some other thing I've not noticed yet. Keep up your good work. On the the next in this series.
Great stuff Joel, this whole series has been awesome.
Thanks 💪🏻👍🏻👊🏻
@@SurvivingDuckSeason I'm sorry to bother, but I received a notification saying that I had won a firearm. I don't want to be scanned. I just want to make sure this is true. Can you verify? I'm trying to get a hold of someone. I emailed you on your online store, and message you on Facebook Messenger as well
I Shoot a SBE 3 with a Pattern master code black duck and Hevi Metal #4s. Pattern is incredibly good at 40 yards. Never really focused on shot string honestly, always on pattern. I always say shoot what your confident in. And I’m super confident in my combo. But your info and how in depth you go is very well done. Great video!
If that combination works for you best over all, then it’s all that matters.
I find every gun is different
Wow Joel, since I saw your last video on the shot string, I really wished to see how Patternmaster will do "in real footage" .I am a big fan of Patrernmaster not because of their claim about their chock tubes ability to shorten the shot string, I rather like gow they pattern with my Beretta A350 extrema and Kent, winchester snow geese, and many other shells surprisingly including Winchester blind side, yes, it di pattern amazingly with patternmaster code black duck.
Finally, I really appreciate that you highlighted the fact that Boss does not like studded chokes. Brilliant.
Wow. This really opened my eyes to what chokes actually do and how much better stock choke tubes perform. I picked up a patternmaster code black duck for my SBE3 with high hopes of a shorter shot string and to increase my lethality on the birds. I’m still going to shoot it all season just to see if I have more or less cripples with it vs the stock modified. But this video really showed that stock chokes do perform a lot better than most people give them credit for! Not saying some after market chokes wouldn’t perform better though. Just something to think about. Great video though!
Joel, thank you for doing this series. Lord know how much time it took you to do all of this, much less the money to make all of this. As a third year waterfowl hunting this series taught me a lot so far. Thank you.
Edit: ever seen a golden eye bomb into the spread, simultaneously figuring out its a trap? I swear those things move at Mach 2 🤣. Or at least they're insanely quick here in Idaho.
Great job. Self proclaimed Patternmaster fan boy here....and BOSS fan boy. Hard pill to swallow but I washed it down. Something else to think about. The steel shot leaving at a higher velocity than the denser shots has them all arriving to the 40 yard target at about the same time. My porch swing figgering tells me that the denser shots will be retaining more energy on arrival. E=MV^2. Of course the trade offs of shot size, mass, pattern density. .... Well done and thank you.
Incredible info. I do have the pattern master code black duck, now I got more info on the choke. I waterfowl in Mexico and mostly
shoot passing ducks, usually 40+yds and though pattern master was the best choke out. I will do further research. Thanks for the video and great content.
I never comment but Joel this is awesome! That split second in deciding to shoot is now so information dense in my mind now in why I miss at 15 yards and fold at 45. Just awesome information here to make my patterns make sense… or not! 😮
Sure makes ya think! Thanks for the comment 👍🏻💪🏻👊🏻
Mind blowing 🤯 I'm at aw with the math! One thing I hear you say constantly throughout your series is knowing your shot pattern and your amo.
First off, your series is top notch! Like seriously the best ! This series came at the perfect time as iv been experimenting with shot/load and choke combinations the last few weeks.
Iv been shooting a patternmaster code black duck in my beretta A350 extrema for about 10 years now. When I bought it I knew nothing about it and neither did the employee at the small shop I bought it at, I didn’t even look it up. I went out and patterned it at 30yrd with some of the cheapest ammo I could find and liked what I saw. So I continued to use it. Knowing very little about shot string and was under the impression the choke was an improved modified.
Many successful duck and goose hunts later I never thought twice about it. Just recently I purchased a Benelli m2 field and bought both carolson mid and long range cremator chokes and was sort of disappointed with my patterning results granted I only tried one type of ammo/shot with them. I thought hey iv had good experience with the patternmaster let’s get another one.
So I purchased a code black duck again for the M2. I just today went back to the patterning board with all 3 chokes and 3 different rounds of 2 different shot size. By then end of my session I had some good results with the carolson and patternmaster. Needless to say I found good combinations between each choke/load, and range. But obviously no information on shot string. Iv now read fully into patternmaster and thought hey that’s great technology.
Your videos are the proof of what is actually happening and I love it! I especially liked when you said “did you like it before today, then shoot it, don’t throw it in the trash” your video doesn’t prove that pattern master is junk it just proves it’s not exactly doing what it’s advertised as. But it’s still a good choke!
Awesome stuff brother! Really appreciate you and your efforts ! Cheers from Canada eh 🍻🤘🇨🇦
I'd love to see Winchester Blind Sides (unique projectile shape/wad design), Remington Hypersonics (to see the effects of the higher velocity), as well as some of the other unique wad designs that are supposed to affect shot string. This was an AMAZING content series, just like everything else you've done! I can't wait to see Part 7!!!
Very interesting results it would be cool to see which choke out of like top 5 best rated chokes compared just to see if aftermarket chokes even make a difference with shot string
@Andy Gibbs Aftermarket waterfowl specific chokes are mostly gimmicks. Pay attention to the actual constriction and make sure to pattern. I had a Carlson cremator midrange that patterned really good, until I patterned my factory improved cylinder and discovered it was the same constriction and patterned the exact same. Needless to say I returned the Carlson's. A buddy bought the extended range model and after patterning it against his factory improved modified with a similar constriction he was also dissatisfied with his purchase. have had several buddies go through that experience with the kicks as well. I love Carlson's and use them for trap because there trap chokes offer more full and consistent patterns but steel and lead are 2 different animals.
@Andy Gibbs I'm a North Dakota boy lol. I use federal blue box and fiocchi cheap as it comes lol I try not to swing at anything out of the decoys.... But yes you definitely gotta figure out what works for you.
@Andy Gibbs yep that's exactly what I mean. Fellas buy full chokes thinking they should pattern as tight as lead full, but that is not so. Tightest you should shoot steel is improved cylinder and when I pattern that out it is ugly.
As hunters or firearms enthusiasts we rely on other people's experiences so much to relay info and then judge on that basis if it makes sense. Mainly because my father didn't have a high speed camera, or even an interchangeable choke tubes! He repeated what he did to get results. You're shining a light on a whole industry that has little to no scientific data to back up their claims and I don't blame people for falling to marketing hype, it happens in literally every industry. Love this series, and again this video could have been an hour+ in length for me and I would watch it more than once. Might I suggest when you're completely done how about a collage of just every single shot in slow mo hitting the reactive targets set to music. It seriously looks like art and I find it amazing to watch. The next step is to have the manufactures start paying you to test their product claims! The ones that hold up would have no issue doing this. Regardless please keep making more!!
You’re right about people falling for marketing in all industries. It’s very frustrating for me to see it. Thanks for your support, kind words, and suggestions. 💪🏻👍🏻👊🏻
What may make this more visible is to do histograms of every 6" to 1' with number of pellets in each bucket. That plot would probably show some really interesting results. I would expect a J-curve that would show your real string is much shorter than counting front to back. You briefly alluded to an 80% count, but visually seeing the data is more impactful.
The second thing that would be really fascinating is measuring the speed of the pellets at 40 yards. Tom Roster has a theory that if you start at 1600 fps or 1200 fps, the velocity of the pellet is the same at 40 yards. I think your video could prove that to a great extent.
The biggest thing you confirmed for me is that I need to "miss in front" because the length of shot string helps catch the target in the cloud
For clarification we have shown on this video that the shot string is moving too fast to help or hurt you. But you are welcome to draw your own conclusions.
There are so much i can say, but i'll stop at Thank You Sir !!!!!
These are the best answers to my shot questions that I could imagine. Fabulous.
Joel, I must say from here in the UK this series has been very informative and the best thing i have seen in a long time on CZcams in regards to shooting. I really appreciate your bravery & honesty whilst trying to be fair to the companies you mention and their merchandise claims especially around the choke tubes, whilst it is clear to me from your findings that there are differences from using differing choke tubes to the shot string it is nowhere near the supposedly positive position they are trying to portray. Well done and very well put together.
Such a great video ,,, another question ,,, dose more restriction on the muzzle effects the shot string??? ,, using cylinder choke verses full choke ???? Thanks again your the best brother,, GOD BLESS!!!
This ^^^^
Great video, Joel, really great. You’ve given us so much to consider the next time we lead the bead on Mr Greenhead. With folks like you, The BOSSMEN, and so many others encouraging ethical practices (put it on paper, pattern your gun, finishing birds feet down, enjoy the hunt don’t focus on the pile pics) I believe that we as a whole can become greater conservationists than most of our fathers and grandfathers were.
What an awesome little video series! Thank you for making this.
Thank you for your unbiased testing. You are definitely the leader in informational, duckhunting videos
Found your page two years ago when I started duck hunting. Great video as always, I would love to see a slow motion demonstration of the shot string on a duck.
WOW, I love this series!!! I'm learning so much and can't wait till the next one comes out. Thank you for doing this and you are gaining the best and most professionally produced testing and data that I have ever seen! Something I wasn't sure I'd ever seen done either! I'm gaining a tremendous understanding and education with what you've done so far and can't wait for more!!! Thank you again and I'm on the edge my chair waiting for the next one!
You are so welcome! Glad it helpful for you. More enlightening content coming soon!
@@SurvivingDuckSeason Do u think the longer shot string helps u connect better on crossing shots or is pattern time of flight to quick?
Thank you for this research/info!!! So insightful love watching every one!!
Love this series
So happy this dropped today, great info Joel. The math really doesn't lie... to visualize it more, if all the pellets were in a perfect line (no spread) basically on a straight crosser at 40 mph at 40yds, if your tip of your shotstring started at the bill, it would end at the tail. I dont think at it really makes a difference overall. Keep em coming!
really enjoyed this episode can't get enough of your channel looking forward to the next episode
I appreciate it 💪🏻👍🏻👊🏻
What an AWESOME Video!!
Man if I had that camera I would shoot every possible choke tube/ammo from Improved Modified to Turkey Chokes, in conjunction with 12 gauge vs 20 gauges.
In school for engineering right now, man would I have loved to work on something like this
Love this series bud!!!!!!!,,,,sooooo looking forward to the next episode,,,,
Keep this series going somehow this is absolutely awesome!