I honestly think that the moment when you get the map is the weakest in the game. Cornifer kinda just goes "Hey you want a map?" and then the player buys it because they have some spare change. The best thing to do in my opinion would be to have Cornifer let you know which room you're in after you purchase your first map. Giving the player something to grasp on their map so that they don't feel completely lost when they look at the sprawling crossroads would work wonders for people that aren't used to their map being important. Other than that, I didn't really have any other problems with Hollow Knight's start up. I'm a very stubborn person who doesn't like giving up on games too easily, plus Hollow Knight was a present from my younger cousin and I didn't want to disappoint them. The second I got the compass, I was able to start learning landmarks and make my way over to the False Knight.
hollow knight was my first metrovania and I found the game to be tedious up until you unlock mantis claw, then the whole game opens up and becomes a masterpiece.
Sometimes a person just isn't in the mood for a game. It happens with everything: food, music, series and anime - you don't like it on the first try, but several months later it clicks. It's good to give things you didn't like another shot.
Tbh I instantly fell in love with the game the moment I got to Dirtmouth and the piano hit. I got chills and said:"Yep, this is gonna be a great game". Little did I know it would become my favorite game of all time
I see the appeal now for sure. But it’s just not for everyone. The starting area has a very dull color palette compared to the rest of the game. The music is sub par in the crossroads and there is no music in kings pass. And every other point in the video. And the rest of the game isn’t like that at all, hence why so many people love it on their second shot, coz they know where to go at the start and don’t burn all their excitement wandering around slowly and aimlessly. Silksong starting in a much more vibrant environment is already a good sign that this is something TC is fixing
Yeah same scenario here (tho it wasn't that bad since I was committed)! I got the game played for a little bit then drop it for like a month then came back. The WOW moment for me was when I entered Greenpath. That was the moment I said to myself that I want to explore everywhere and find everything and by the time I finished all of the endings it became my favourite game!
I definetly agree with the quitting problem at the start of the game. I was so happy when I downloaded the game because I've seen gameplay and knew it was my type of game. Then I got to False knight and the rest of the crossroads bosses and went to Greenpath. At that point it felt really boring and I was almost about to quit but I decided to keep going. Best decision of my life. It kept being boring for about 30min but I forced myself to play and after beating Hornet (taking almost an hour) I got the first ability and from that point forward I was addicted.
im 100% sure team cherry are aware of that, HK's pacing is like almost the only complaint i've heard since they added the DLC's (there's also the downslash purple mushroom bounce and elder baldurs being video gamey). so yeah, silksong will be insane
Super Metroid is the goat of openings. Between the intro text slides giving you backstory, and the opening level establishing the mission, the antagonist, and the WHY. From that opening, it’s hard not to be hooked right away. Oppose that to Hollow Knight. Where all we get is a short intro of the main character walking, and a quick glimpse of something that we can infer is a boss. But that’s it. No story, no direction, no why.
Because of this, my friend couldn’t get past the first couple hours out of boredom of not knowing what he was even doing. I get it. The first few hours can feel like a slog. But it’s so worth it.
I judge things like this based on how they function as an art, not as a marketing product. I personally LOVE the starting area and how much time you spend there before getting to Greenpath and experiencing the lively contrast
Personally, I’m of the opinion that it’s actually the latter part of the game that’s paced worse- after the natural progression to city of tears and then I guess intuitively crystal peak, every door starts to open- which is great for the fun exploration aspect of it, but it also ends up becoming slightly rushed OR feels as if you end up discovering a land- exploring like a third of it, having to double back, and then repeating that process until the novelty of exploring each land fully (with only maybe a couple small areas to backtrack to) is kinda lost and it becomes more about just adding to the map. I will agree that forgotten crossroads is an extremely slow start but that run of the pilgrim’s way from greenpath through fungal wastes to city is just unbeatable and shows so much of the world at the perfect pace imo
I played HK for the first time in the summer of 2021 and wasn't really into it but I never gave up on it. I think what made me continue playing was the fact that I hadn't really played any metroidvanias up until then so I found the game hard and the challenge was enough to keep me around. At city of tears I started to really love it
I think one simple change that would make the start of hollow knight so much better would be just adding a door to the right with a lever on the other side. This would force you to go left and actually find the map guy 100% of the time, as on my first playthrough i got lost on the right side of crossroads for hours before finally discovering the map, a super crucial feature.
today is day 4 of me drawing daily small comics and putting them into a video compilation when release date gets announced, give me ideas! yesterday’s was about the release date placeholder
I started playing HK in the summer of 2020 during the pandemic. Our family was home A LOT. Bought HK after hearing about it from a few friends. I thought the game was slow and overhyped during the first couple hours, but after beating the false night and entering Green Path, I fell in love with the game. Took me 80 hours to 100% the game. 4 years later I finally 112% the game, which was deliberate. Game is still my favorite of all time.
I agree completely, I have a friend who has no experience with metroidvania type games, so when I got him to try Hollow Knight he wandered around in the Forgotten Crossroads and after about an hour he quit, haven't gotten him to play the game again since.
I kind agree, but at the same time it is what makes this game so good later, because you see how much it improves. It is like bojack horseman where the most of the season 1 was bad, but makes you comfortable with the series and they it is just going up from there
bruh... i picked it up on january 4th of this year, and for first 3 hours of playing(then i got to sleep because it was late blah blah blah) i was literally stuck in crossroads. same happened on the next day for 2 hours until i found wayward compass(i did NOT skip cornifer's dialogue idfk why i didn't get the charm earlier) and only like 6 hours after getting into king's pass i found the greenpath
I think the problem that people have with HKs start is that new players get lost. For some reason people tend to ignore what Cornifer says about their freshly-opened shop and, after exploring crossroads for a while, get lost and close the game. I think it would be better if Cornifer gave compass with the map. This would act as an introduction to charms system and make the map usable for new players.
This happened to me as well! I bought the game few months before I actually got obsessed with it, now its the best game ever for me. Im curious how theyll make silksong at the start of it (if silksong is real)
The fact that nearly a quarter of the people who own Hollow Knight on steam didn’t get the achievement where you get your first charm is pretty notable, actually.
This happend to me as well! first played hollow knight in 2020, quit after beating hornet, then four years later, i beat radiance and the game became one of my favourite of all time.
I think the massive amounts of items and new abilities that will be in Skong will allow TC to incorporate some of those early game items into the beginning. I do see how it is difficult to pace the game at the star however, since it does take a bit for people to learn the basics and understand how the game works. Throwing new abilities literally 10 minutes into a casual gameplay could be just information overload. I would 100% agree that hollow knights beginning is very slow, but it works so well. Adding more items and stuff for the first section of hk would definitely improve it though. Can't wait to see how Skong turns out
5:55 i disagree tbh. the story is sorta the thing that makes me want to keep playing, like to see what happens next/to uncover the lore. once you have exposition, and play WITH the story, it’s just a better gaming experience. if you just want gameplay first, it’s like seeing the story separately from the game. also smh relyea 6:04 y u skip dialogue
I had the same experience with Hollow Knight and I didn't know a lot of other people did as well. Almost gave up during Greenpath because it was too difficult and I was enjoying the game less. Not sure what exactly made me pick it up again but I'm glad I did because this usually never happens with other games.
Honestly, I wouldn't change anything. I get what you're saying but I just love it for what it is and sometimes a player needs to get past their annoyance by quitting for a bit. Makes the return all the sweeter. Maybe that's just me though.
I think the first game to ever do the dark souls thing right was paper Mario 64 where the first battle was Op bowser fucking one tapping you after the 3rd turn with his fire breath. it both sets up exposition (not that you really need it in a Mario game), tells you the main objective and introduces you to the battle system. Paper Mario 64 was one of my favorite games growing up and I can't for the pmttyd remake to come out almost as much I can't wait for silksong. maybe when the thousand-year door remake comes out you can play it.
I never got to beat Hollow Knight, I started playing it a rough time in my life. Funnily enough, I found out long after I quit that I did nearly everything but couldn't find Lurien. I enjoyed the game to death while I played it, and I fell in love with it when I finally saw the rest of the game on CZcams. Now, Silksong is coming out (any day now guys) when I should be able to really enjoy it without real life coming in from stage right to punch me in the face. I'm excited.
I got hollow knight recommended to me by a friend who told me it was giving him Metroid dread vibes (he rage quit hollow knight a few weeks later) I actually didn’t give up the game and played it start to finish. It’s definitely either my first or second favorite game.
Wow I thought I was unique… played for an hour not knowing where to go then getting beat by the faulse knight, then quitting on my second try. A year later I off handedly try it and fall in love
the current state of silksong fans "guys i had a dream that silksong got huge news on june 13 do not take this post too seriously" peporandom12: OH MAY GOD ITS CONFIRMED NEWS SILKSONG IS REALEASING ON JUNAI 13 AASDASDAD lasagnhalover: YESSS REALEASE DATE GOT LEAKED jesus2: SKONG NEWS!!!!
back in like 2018 my brother got hollow knight thinking he would like it because we liked cuphead but we barely played it. then in 2020 i was bored with my favorite game at the time (shovel knight) and i decided to play hollow knight. it became my favorite game of all time as well.
The love of my life all soulsborne games I just can’t live without them they are my cocaine and I can’t wait for elden rings dlc come out, odd question Primacon would you be willing to stream the dlc in June if you’ve played the game before? I would really enjoy watching you play that game and I feel like a lot of other people might enjoy that too
Oh the thing is id LOVE to make content on Elden ring but my old laptop wouldn’t be able to handle it. Ive 100% Elden ring but it ran at like 40 fps and that was without recording or streaming it. So unless I can afford a Pc by end of June 😅
I got your point but I do not agree. My experience on the first play was... emptiness. The feeling was cool, I was wondering around the place and discovering harsh underground, just as Elderbug said it is not safe. And I fell deeper and deeper into the mysteries. I was in an old metro system with one old "driver" that was willing to take me everywhere for free. I saw a city... city of tears. I discovered a weird place of regrets. I was scared walking in deepnest. The emptiness on the start may be boring for some players... but I do not care about them. You cant make a game be perfect for everyone. If they made the game more adhd-like, like a lot of games, it would hit differently. The Hollow Knight is well tuned in its taste. There is no game that is made for everyone.
I agree, the desolate and melancholic atmosphere captured me instantly, I was invested from the moment I started playing it. I also am someone who loves the story world building and the characters, I don’t relate to players who do not care for those things, all of those things coming together is such a big part of the magic that HK gives, the “slow” start was perfect imo also…
The slow start also sucks for speedrunning. Every time you fail a run you have to spend like 8 minutes slowly walking around just to get to dash, which gets really mind numbing really quickly. I really hope hornet has a run ability from the start
3:05 That's so surreal to see my comment from 2 years ago in a video xdd But tbh I'm not even sure if "slow start" is truly Hollow Knight's problem. A lot of people complain about it or experience the same "play game - leave it - come back to it - love it" story, but when I'm trying to find the reason for it within the game, I can't put my finger on why exactly this thing happens to so many of HK fans. While some aspects at the start of the game might seem underwhelming, none come off as big enough reason to outright stop playing the game. Sure, it's far from being a perfect introduction, but it still seems like a solid experience in my eyes. And I assume that's why so many of us were willing to give the game a second or even a third chance. That said, there is definitely one little thing I would change about the beginning. Make pogo mechanic more obvious. Not to a degree of outright putting it into a tutorial prompt, still make the player work for it and feel like they uncovered it on their own. I think it's such a major improvement to your base moveset, but 90% of players don't even realize that they can do it until Fungal Wastes. I watched a streamer uncover it on his own and he got to Brooding Mawlek way before False Knight, within 30 minutes of playing the game actually. So you can imagine how this can heavily impact your first impression of the game.
I'd say you don't even need to have crazy powerups or bosses in the beginning. One of the best reasons to play HK for the first time is the atmosphere of the game. However, the atmosphere in HK is very "dead" in the beginning and then builds up little by little. I feel like Silksong needs a city of tears or infected crossroads kinda moment early on, or maybe - if Team Cherry wants to recreate the dead atmosphere at some point early on - have a beautiful, living world die and then slowly make it come back to life as we progress. Just imagine if for a short moment you could walk around in Hallownest as a regular bug during the pale king's reign, seeing everything illuminated, the city of tears being full of life, kids/larvae playing on the streets etc. Then everything dies in a cutscene, the knight somehow escapes the abyss before time passes and he returns to Hallownest where the actual game starts.
i found out about game 2019 but didnt play it, after few years i download it to try and you know what i loved it, bcuz of the gloomy atmosphere something like that, now im waiting for silksong.
Yeah absolutely right. HK is hard at the start especially when you don't know what you're looking for. The replay was almost more enjoyable haha. I loved speedrunning it when I knew where everything was
Funny thing, Rain World has a very similar problem, and similar to Hollow Knight it also happens to usually become one of the favorite games people play
It makes sense how the pacing was crooked due to literally essentially having to rely on the devs own sense of pacing based off OLD Metroid’s. I personally got hooked into the game right way due to being a kid, so I have plenty of time, but I’d be lying to say there wasn’t times early on where I was just straight up bored.
about 3 years ago i got hollow knight and got to greenpath and quit. then a little while after i fully played it. but like GREENPATH? WHY DID I STOP THERE
On my first playthrough I wasn't quite feeling it in the Crossroads but persisted and when I got to Greenpath and the music hit, I was hooked. Funny because I really like the Crossroads now.
Don’t they do that with the Demo?? I remember it being straightforward, no other paths, intel you finished the boss Moss Mother and encounter the NPC. At least that’s what I thought.
EVERYONE GO PLAY ANIMAL WELL!! for me it captures the same magic as hollow knight. ive played a lot of metroidvanias but this is the only one that fills me with wonder and excitement, other than hollow knight itself
Silksong should start with a bad ass boss who kicks hornets ass and that’s how she ends up trapped and taken to Pharloom and would shock fans because hornet is such a bad ass and if you start it by getting destroyed then you know you are taking on something very powerful.
The whole “intentional death” thing was only Bloodborne and Elden Ring, actually. The Souls series has some of its own issues with poor introductions. A lot of people gave up at Asylum Demon in DS1 because the game starts you with a broken sword in place of your class equipment, and they thought they were expected to kill the boss while doing 2 damage per swing due to not seeing the exit door. The game is trying to teach the player about being prepared before tackling a challenge, but some never learn this and end up rage-quitting as a result. DS3 has the issue of being arguably too hard at the beginning for a brand new player that’s fresh to the series. As I’ve seen it said before, Iudex Gundyr, the first boss, could be considered a final boss for most other games in his design. (And then you go to the High Wall of Lothric and the game gets even harder.) And DS2 had a very boring opening that doesn’t even feature a tutorial boss; you just kill some hollows in the dark and get ambushed by OHKO grab-attack hippos. (At least you can skip all of it by walking past the section.) So while I get the sentiment, keep in mind that it can go from Silksong’s intro being too dull, to being “too much”. You don’t want to bore people, but you also don’t want to frustrate them either.
Please make more rain world episodes its a bit plane in the beginning but when you finish it you will want more and it has more the dlc that already exists have 5 more slugcats to play as and each one is like experiencing the game again unlike hollow knight
Well... Couple months ago my sister convinced me to play a game she was playing (the binding of isaac) and I agreed, but she had to pkay Hollow Knight. And she did, for 30 minutes until she died to the same aspid mother 3 times and never came back Shame on her
For me the main pain in butt in Hollow Knight was a contact damage. I despise the fact that games still use this. It's one thing, when the character gets damaged by spikes, poisons, acid, lava, fire, sword, arrow or enemy's attack (hit, bite, throw, for example) or whatever, absolutely no problem. But when the character gets damaged just because he was near an enemy and just touched an enemy... I hate game devs for this. They had brain cell to not add this F contact damage in Radiance battle, because if they added, nobody would ever defeat Radiance.
You think turning away new players is a problem for Hollow knight? Try Rain World. Literally every single person I've seen abandons the game after an hour or two. Same with me. Came back years later and it is one of my favorite games right up there with Hollow Knight. Rain World also doesn't tell you ANYTHING at the start, but it's opening cutscene is beautiful short and tells you everything you need to know, try to survive, without any words.
yeah so i really dislike a lot of cutscenes in games... i hate how i enter a house or whatever and i have to watch a guy talk to his grandmother for 2 minutes and play for 1 minute so another cutscene starts playing where the guy talks to a random car seller which knows an antagonists location or whatever lmao. but i love games which have dialogue for some weird reason, even when the gameplay might not be very good like super paper mario which is one of my favorite games edit: so im very glad TC does the dialogue route (their cutscenes are very nice tho, the hollow knight ending one is sooo terrifying, where the knight gets chained up and all that, thats crazy)
Don't point out any potential problems with Silksong, because Team Cherry will see this video and delay the game by another year to fix them. Then they'll get an idea for a new area, boom, another delay
I think the very first part of Hollow Knight is one the best starts i've ever experienced in a game, and here's why. I'm refferring to the very first area of the game, because i feel like Greenpath, is where most of the people started to be interested in the title. So, why Forgotten Crossroads is so uninteresting for some people? These are the points i think people would have for that claim: -It's a slow ass start(neither a bad thing nor a good one) -The blueish color of the area looks kinda boring for some and the enemies are repetitive -At the beginnig of the game people loose themselves within the area, not even knowing how to get out of it and they leave the game -Since there are no abillties, the game seems really slow, and people don't want to put that much time and effort in exploring an already boring area -there are probably few other points, share yours if you feel like it, i'll try to get them answered And this are my points: -The start's slowness isn't that much of problem for me, although I understand why a lot of people feel the opposite way -The blue's dominance into the Forgotten Crossroads color palette serves a purpose, as well as the enemies(this is an opinion) They have to represent a long fallen kingdom, and the sadness of those places. With that said, isn't blue the perfect color to display these ideas? -Enemies are really important, since they have the task of making the player learn how the Hollow Knight basics works, and they also have an hidden purpose. They make the player know the False knight's attacks even before their first encounter with him(for instance, the jumping husk that makes you learn how to doge the boss jumps or the giant guards with their shockwaves similar to the boss ones) -This area is also linked to other very important areas. And is the one you'll return the most to, during the playthrough This are my points, thank you for reading my long ass comment. P.S. There are probably some flaws in the comment, since english isn't my first language, I hope I made myself clear enough. Pls read it, I put in it so much effort.
9:08 i want silksong to be popular and successful but not in a way where almost every 8 year old kids talks about hornet being void or where half of my school talks the lore and gets everything wrong. i just dont want silksong to become what fortnite, roblox or brawl stars became (even minecraft). u cant even mention any of these games to 80% of people without getting absolutely sh1t on. i know that wont happen because silksong is a different kind of game but you know what im trying to say
What would you change about the first 1-2 hours of Hollow Knight? Also, Subscribe to support the channel!
nothing
Increase the walk speed in Dirtmouth
I honestly think that the moment when you get the map is the weakest in the game. Cornifer kinda just goes "Hey you want a map?" and then the player buys it because they have some spare change.
The best thing to do in my opinion would be to have Cornifer let you know which room you're in after you purchase your first map. Giving the player something to grasp on their map so that they don't feel completely lost when they look at the sprawling crossroads would work wonders for people that aren't used to their map being important.
Other than that, I didn't really have any other problems with Hollow Knight's start up. I'm a very stubborn person who doesn't like giving up on games too easily, plus Hollow Knight was a present from my younger cousin and I didn't want to disappoint them.
The second I got the compass, I was able to start learning landmarks and make my way over to the False Knight.
Make the compass cheaper. 220 geo is decently expensive for the very beginning of the game
hollow knight was my first metrovania and I found the game to be tedious up until you unlock mantis claw, then the whole game opens up and becomes a masterpiece.
The biggest problem of Silksong is that the game is still not out.
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I played hollow knight, got bored, watched a video about how broken flukenest is, played hollow knight again and fell in love.
Same
Based af
Was it from blue
@@AlexanderCollier. Yes
Sometimes a person just isn't in the mood for a game. It happens with everything: food, music, series and anime - you don't like it on the first try, but several months later it clicks.
It's good to give things you didn't like another shot.
Tbh I instantly fell in love with the game the moment I got to Dirtmouth and the piano hit. I got chills and said:"Yep, this is gonna be a great game". Little did I know it would become my favorite game of all time
I've personally never understood this complaint. Personally, I ADORE the first couple hours of the game. Guess I'm one of the few.
I see the appeal now for sure. But it’s just not for everyone. The starting area has a very dull color palette compared to the rest of the game. The music is sub par in the crossroads and there is no music in kings pass. And every other point in the video.
And the rest of the game isn’t like that at all, hence why so many people love it on their second shot, coz they know where to go at the start and don’t burn all their excitement wandering around slowly and aimlessly.
Silksong starting in a much more vibrant environment is already a good sign that this is something TC is fixing
"Kinda don't give a hoot"
Aahh I see what you did there Primacon! Cause like, I-it's a joke because of the owl.
Yeah same scenario here (tho it wasn't that bad since I was committed)! I got the game played for a little bit then drop it for like a month then came back. The WOW moment for me was when I entered Greenpath. That was the moment I said to myself that I want to explore everywhere and find everything and by the time I finished all of the endings it became my favourite game!
I feel like the game really picks up pace after meeting the mantis lords, that's the moment when the game clicked for me.
I definetly agree with the quitting problem at the start of the game. I was so happy when I downloaded the game because I've seen gameplay and knew it was my type of game. Then I got to False knight and the rest of the crossroads bosses and went to Greenpath. At that point it felt really boring and I was almost about to quit but I decided to keep going. Best decision of my life. It kept being boring for about 30min but I forced myself to play and after beating Hornet (taking almost an hour) I got the first ability and from that point forward I was addicted.
one thing all silksong fans lack:
patience.
*5* years going.
They could start Silksong with a Pure Vessel fight.
I actually loved the game from the moment I saw it.
The sad atmosphere must have drawn me in immediately because I fell in love instantly and love the start of the game, each to their own.
im 100% sure team cherry are aware of that, HK's pacing is like almost the only complaint i've heard since they added the DLC's (there's also the downslash purple mushroom bounce and elder baldurs being video gamey). so yeah, silksong will be insane
I love the purple mushroom bounce wdym
@@Anonyomus_commenter yes but new players get stuck there pretty easily because there isnt many things which teach u that u can bounce off of them
@@babyl Yeah they probably should have shown hornet using one to get around the wastes
Super Metroid is the goat of openings. Between the intro text slides giving you backstory, and the opening level establishing the mission, the antagonist, and the WHY. From that opening, it’s hard not to be hooked right away.
Oppose that to Hollow Knight. Where all we get is a short intro of the main character walking, and a quick glimpse of something that we can infer is a boss. But that’s it. No story, no direction, no why.
Because of this, my friend couldn’t get past the first couple hours out of boredom of not knowing what he was even doing. I get it. The first few hours can feel like a slog. But it’s so worth it.
I judge things like this based on how they function as an art, not as a marketing product. I personally LOVE the starting area and how much time you spend there before getting to Greenpath and experiencing the lively contrast
Personally, I’m of the opinion that it’s actually the latter part of the game that’s paced worse- after the natural progression to city of tears and then I guess intuitively crystal peak, every door starts to open- which is great for the fun exploration aspect of it, but it also ends up becoming slightly rushed OR feels as if you end up discovering a land- exploring like a third of it, having to double back, and then repeating that process until the novelty of exploring each land fully (with only maybe a couple small areas to backtrack to) is kinda lost and it becomes more about just adding to the map. I will agree that forgotten crossroads is an extremely slow start but that run of the pilgrim’s way from greenpath through fungal wastes to city is just unbeatable and shows so much of the world at the perfect pace imo
I played HK for the first time in the summer of 2021 and wasn't really into it but I never gave up on it. I think what made me continue playing was the fact that I hadn't really played any metroidvanias up until then so I found the game hard and the challenge was enough to keep me around. At city of tears I started to really love it
I think one simple change that would make the start of hollow knight so much better would be just adding a door to the right with a lever on the other side. This would force you to go left and actually find the map guy 100% of the time, as on my first playthrough i got lost on the right side of crossroads for hours before finally discovering the map, a super crucial feature.
today is day 4 of me drawing daily small comics and putting them into a video compilation when release date gets announced, give me ideas!
yesterday’s was about the release date placeholder
I started playing HK in the summer of 2020 during the pandemic. Our family was home A LOT. Bought HK after hearing about it from a few friends. I thought the game was slow and overhyped during the first couple hours, but after beating the false night and entering Green Path, I fell in love with the game. Took me 80 hours to 100% the game. 4 years later I finally 112% the game, which was deliberate. Game is still my favorite of all time.
I'd like to always have the map term basically be active. But if specifically want to have that off, they could have a setting to turn it off.
I agree completely, I have a friend who has no experience with metroidvania type games, so when I got him to try Hollow Knight he wandered around in the Forgotten Crossroads and after about an hour he quit, haven't gotten him to play the game again since.
I kind agree, but at the same time it is what makes this game so good later, because you see how much it improves. It is like bojack horseman where the most of the season 1 was bad, but makes you comfortable with the series and they it is just going up from there
Honestly I stop and think about the people who have actually passed away waiting this long for the game. It’s really sad to be honest.
bruh... i picked it up on january 4th of this year, and for first 3 hours of playing(then i got to sleep because it was late blah blah blah) i was literally stuck in crossroads. same happened on the next day for 2 hours until i found wayward compass(i did NOT skip cornifer's dialogue idfk why i didn't get the charm earlier) and only like 6 hours after getting into king's pass i found the greenpath
I think the problem that people have with HKs start is that new players get lost. For some reason people tend to ignore what Cornifer says about their freshly-opened shop and, after exploring crossroads for a while, get lost and close the game. I think it would be better if Cornifer gave compass with the map. This would act as an introduction to charms system and make the map usable for new players.
This happened to me as well! I bought the game few months before I actually got obsessed with it, now its the best game ever for me. Im curious how theyll make silksong at the start of it (if silksong is real)
The fact that nearly a quarter of the people who own Hollow Knight on steam didn’t get the achievement where you get your first charm is pretty notable, actually.
That’s crazy
Hi primacon, a recent download option was found for silksong but the release date is a placeholder so maybe release date soon?
This happend to me as well! first played hollow knight in 2020, quit after beating hornet, then four years later, i beat radiance and the game became one of my favourite of all time.
I think the massive amounts of items and new abilities that will be in Skong will allow TC to incorporate some of those early game items into the beginning. I do see how it is difficult to pace the game at the star however, since it does take a bit for people to learn the basics and understand how the game works. Throwing new abilities literally 10 minutes into a casual gameplay could be just information overload. I would 100% agree that hollow knights beginning is very slow, but it works so well. Adding more items and stuff for the first section of hk would definitely improve it though. Can't wait to see how Skong turns out
5:55 i disagree tbh. the story is sorta the thing that makes me want to keep playing, like to see what happens next/to uncover the lore. once you have exposition, and play WITH the story, it’s just a better gaming experience. if you just want gameplay first, it’s like seeing the story separately from the game.
also smh relyea 6:04 y u skip dialogue
I had the same experience with Hollow Knight and I didn't know a lot of other people did as well. Almost gave up during Greenpath because it was too difficult and I was enjoying the game less. Not sure what exactly made me pick it up again but I'm glad I did because this usually never happens with other games.
good job, you delayed silksong by another 7 years
Honestly, I wouldn't change anything. I get what you're saying but I just love it for what it is and sometimes a player needs to get past their annoyance by quitting for a bit. Makes the return all the sweeter. Maybe that's just me though.
I think the first game to ever do the dark souls thing right was paper Mario 64 where the first battle was Op bowser fucking one tapping you after the 3rd turn with his fire breath. it both sets up exposition (not that you really need it in a Mario game), tells you the main objective and introduces you to the battle system. Paper Mario 64 was one of my favorite games growing up and I can't for the pmttyd remake to come out almost as much I can't wait for silksong. maybe when the thousand-year door remake comes out you can play it.
I never got to beat Hollow Knight, I started playing it a rough time in my life. Funnily enough, I found out long after I quit that I did nearly everything but couldn't find Lurien. I enjoyed the game to death while I played it, and I fell in love with it when I finally saw the rest of the game on CZcams. Now, Silksong is coming out (any day now guys) when I should be able to really enjoy it without real life coming in from stage right to punch me in the face. I'm excited.
15 seconds in and you made me question my choices excellent work private
edit:40 seconds in and you in did it again
It happened to me aswell and now I have the voidheart charm tattoed
I got hollow knight recommended to me by a friend who told me it was giving him Metroid dread vibes (he rage quit hollow knight a few weeks later) I actually didn’t give up the game and played it start to finish. It’s definitely either my first or second favorite game.
Wow I thought I was unique… played for an hour not knowing where to go then getting beat by the faulse knight, then quitting on my second try. A year later I off handedly try it and fall in love
the current state of silksong fans "guys i had a dream that silksong got huge news on june 13 do not take this post too seriously"
peporandom12: OH MAY GOD ITS CONFIRMED NEWS SILKSONG IS REALEASING ON JUNAI 13 AASDASDAD
lasagnhalover: YESSS REALEASE DATE GOT LEAKED
jesus2: SKONG NEWS!!!!
back in like 2018 my brother got hollow knight thinking he would like it because we liked cuphead but we barely played it. then in 2020 i was bored with my favorite game at the time (shovel knight) and i decided to play hollow knight. it became my favorite game of all time as well.
Only truth honestly. Each time i try to do steel soul it kind of piss me off
oh also hornet has the sprint and the dash pretty early on so we good
The love of my life all soulsborne games I just can’t live without them they are my cocaine and I can’t wait for elden rings dlc come out,
odd question Primacon would you be willing to stream the dlc in June if you’ve played the game before? I would really enjoy watching you play that game and I feel like a lot of other people might enjoy that too
Oh the thing is id LOVE to make content on Elden ring but my old laptop wouldn’t be able to handle it. Ive 100% Elden ring but it ran at like 40 fps and that was without recording or streaming it. So unless I can afford a Pc by end of June 😅
I got your point but I do not agree. My experience on the first play was... emptiness. The feeling was cool, I was wondering around the place and discovering harsh underground, just as Elderbug said it is not safe. And I fell deeper and deeper into the mysteries. I was in an old metro system with one old "driver" that was willing to take me everywhere for free. I saw a city... city of tears. I discovered a weird place of regrets. I was scared walking in deepnest.
The emptiness on the start may be boring for some players... but I do not care about them. You cant make a game be perfect for everyone. If they made the game more adhd-like, like a lot of games, it would hit differently. The Hollow Knight is well tuned in its taste. There is no game that is made for everyone.
I agree, the desolate and melancholic atmosphere captured me instantly, I was invested from the moment I started playing it.
I also am someone who loves the story world building and the characters, I don’t relate to players who do not care for those things, all of those things coming together is such a big part of the magic that HK gives, the “slow” start was perfect imo also…
Yeah, that happened to me, Got to soul sanctum and then stopped playing. Came back and it became one of my favorite games of all time.
The slow start also sucks for speedrunning. Every time you fail a run you have to spend like 8 minutes slowly walking around just to get to dash, which gets really mind numbing really quickly. I really hope hornet has a run ability from the start
We already know that the sprint is an upgrade, and not baseline. However, we do also know that it’s a very early upgrade
3:05 That's so surreal to see my comment from 2 years ago in a video xdd
But tbh I'm not even sure if "slow start" is truly Hollow Knight's problem. A lot of people complain about it or experience the same "play game - leave it - come back to it - love it" story, but when I'm trying to find the reason for it within the game, I can't put my finger on why exactly this thing happens to so many of HK fans.
While some aspects at the start of the game might seem underwhelming, none come off as big enough reason to outright stop playing the game.
Sure, it's far from being a perfect introduction, but it still seems like a solid experience in my eyes. And I assume that's why so many of us were willing to give the game a second or even a third chance.
That said, there is definitely one little thing I would change about the beginning. Make pogo mechanic more obvious. Not to a degree of outright putting it into a tutorial prompt, still make the player work for it and feel like they uncovered it on their own. I think it's such a major improvement to your base moveset, but 90% of players don't even realize that they can do it until Fungal Wastes. I watched a streamer uncover it on his own and he got to Brooding Mawlek way before False Knight, within 30 minutes of playing the game actually. So you can imagine how this can heavily impact your first impression of the game.
I agree. I have a friend who played HK for 1.5 hours and dropped it and didn't want to play it again. It was very painful :/
I'd say you don't even need to have crazy powerups or bosses in the beginning. One of the best reasons to play HK for the first time is the atmosphere of the game. However, the atmosphere in HK is very "dead" in the beginning and then builds up little by little. I feel like Silksong needs a city of tears or infected crossroads kinda moment early on, or maybe - if Team Cherry wants to recreate the dead atmosphere at some point early on - have a beautiful, living world die and then slowly make it come back to life as we progress.
Just imagine if for a short moment you could walk around in Hallownest as a regular bug during the pale king's reign, seeing everything illuminated, the city of tears being full of life, kids/larvae playing on the streets etc. Then everything dies in a cutscene, the knight somehow escapes the abyss before time passes and he returns to Hallownest where the actual game starts.
mr silksong guy provides
25 Mr silksong guy provides goddamn
@@Primacon 26 after the next silksong video (I love your content, keep making it and i will watch)
When I played hollow knight, I used way too many guides I feel, so when Silksong comes out I would like to play it without all that stuff
but yeah most of my friends who i convinced to play hollow knight get fed up before even reaching greenpath 😔😔
i found out about game 2019 but didnt play it, after few years i download it to try and you know what i loved it, bcuz of the gloomy atmosphere something like that, now im waiting for silksong.
The thing I would change about Hollow Knight is Marmu existing
Yeah absolutely right. HK is hard at the start especially when you don't know what you're looking for. The replay was almost more enjoyable haha. I loved speedrunning it when I knew where everything was
boss cutscenes in silksong could be cool
Given the fact that the first area is basically just green path I think the problem will be fixed
it's a theming thing thats not very good proof imo
In the demo, the starting area looks pretty straightforward. Not very mazy
I hope it kind of stays that way (at least until the first boss)
@@joacooy8754 well it could be a demo area
I think that kings pass was a great intro, but i feel like cornifer should have been in dirtmouth, and given you forgotten crossroads map for free
I played hollow knight and didn't stop playing because I'm just built different, also I memorized the entire map
Wait wtf that is literally my exact experience
This is a supportive comment
Funny thing, Rain World has a very similar problem, and similar to Hollow Knight it also happens to usually become one of the favorite games people play
It makes sense how the pacing was crooked due to literally essentially having to rely on the devs own sense of pacing based off OLD Metroid’s. I personally got hooked into the game right way due to being a kid, so I have plenty of time, but I’d be lying to say there wasn’t times early on where I was just straight up bored.
about 3 years ago i got hollow knight and got to greenpath and quit. then a little while after i fully played it. but like GREENPATH? WHY DID I STOP THERE
On my first playthrough I wasn't quite feeling it in the Crossroads but persisted and when I got to Greenpath and the music hit, I was hooked. Funny because I really like the Crossroads now.
I backed it back in the years, we still miss a stretch goal.... no cap
Don’t they do that with the Demo?? I remember it being straightforward, no other paths, intel you finished the boss Moss Mother and encounter the NPC. At least that’s what I thought.
EVERYONE GO PLAY ANIMAL WELL!! for me it captures the same magic as hollow knight. ive played a lot of metroidvanias but this is the only one that fills me with wonder and excitement, other than hollow knight itself
Silksong should start with a bad ass boss who kicks hornets ass and that’s how she ends up trapped and taken to Pharloom and would shock fans because hornet is such a bad ass and if you start it by getting destroyed then you know you are taking on something very powerful.
From what we’ve seen the game just starts with the cutscene and then the moss grotto.
@@personexisting123 yeah just thought it would be fun to have something like that
Fix the fact that it's not out 😅😅
I just 112%, 4 save files yesterday 🎉🎉
Great video :D
I agree so much with the idea of playing hollow knight for the first time again
The whole “intentional death” thing was only Bloodborne and Elden Ring, actually.
The Souls series has some of its own issues with poor introductions. A lot of people gave up at Asylum Demon in DS1 because the game starts you with a broken sword in place of your class equipment, and they thought they were expected to kill the boss while doing 2 damage per swing due to not seeing the exit door. The game is trying to teach the player about being prepared before tackling a challenge, but some never learn this and end up rage-quitting as a result.
DS3 has the issue of being arguably too hard at the beginning for a brand new player that’s fresh to the series. As I’ve seen it said before, Iudex Gundyr, the first boss, could be considered a final boss for most other games in his design. (And then you go to the High Wall of Lothric and the game gets even harder.)
And DS2 had a very boring opening that doesn’t even feature a tutorial boss; you just kill some hollows in the dark and get ambushed by OHKO grab-attack hippos. (At least you can skip all of it by walking past the section.)
So while I get the sentiment, keep in mind that it can go from Silksong’s intro being too dull, to being “too much”. You don’t want to bore people, but you also don’t want to frustrate them either.
wow this happened to me too, my friend said it's the best game ever. and stopped playing it for 5 months now i've completed it 5 times
"I am so jealous of you people who play hollow knight for the first time"
hello thats me
i played hollow for 45 mins in 2022 and got bored, then i watced every mossbag theory video (for some reason) and then i loved the game
YES! Mossbag videos are what really got me into the game
Please make more rain world episodes its a bit plane in the beginning but when you finish it you will want more and it has more the dlc that already exists have 5 more slugcats to play as and each one is like experiencing the game again unlike hollow knight
Rain world stream soon!
The only thing i would change in hollow knight is flukenest being 2 charm slots XD
Well... Couple months ago my sister convinced me to play a game she was playing (the binding of isaac) and I agreed, but she had to pkay Hollow Knight. And she did, for 30 minutes until she died to the same aspid mother 3 times and never came back
Shame on her
For me the main pain in butt in Hollow Knight was a contact damage. I despise the fact that games still use this. It's one thing, when the character gets damaged by spikes, poisons, acid, lava, fire, sword, arrow or enemy's attack (hit, bite, throw, for example) or whatever, absolutely no problem. But when the character gets damaged just because he was near an enemy and just touched an enemy... I hate game devs for this. They had brain cell to not add this F contact damage in Radiance battle, because if they added, nobody would ever defeat Radiance.
You think turning away new players is a problem for Hollow knight? Try Rain World. Literally every single person I've seen abandons the game after an hour or two. Same with me. Came back years later and it is one of my favorite games right up there with Hollow Knight. Rain World also doesn't tell you ANYTHING at the start, but it's opening cutscene is beautiful short and tells you everything you need to know, try to survive, without any words.
Holy Milksong
yeah so i really dislike a lot of cutscenes in games... i hate how i enter a house or whatever and i have to watch a guy talk to his grandmother for 2 minutes and play for 1 minute so another cutscene starts playing where the guy talks to a random car seller which knows an antagonists location or whatever lmao. but i love games which have dialogue for some weird reason, even when the gameplay might not be very good like super paper mario which is one of my favorite games
edit: so im very glad TC does the dialogue route (their cutscenes are very nice tho, the hollow knight ending one is sooo terrifying, where the knight gets chained up and all that, thats crazy)
the same happened to me, but for elden ring, I got addicted to hollow knight on the go
7:42 lmaoo subnautica is fire but im too much of a scared puss so i cant finish it
I have that problem rn
The only problems they need to fix is giving us a got dang release date.
Sometimes i think team cherry is doing this on purpose to build uo hype. Think of gta6.
Yoo cool chair not ironically
if you know silksong ,you played hollow knight ,or at least you have to ,then ,you know how to deal with the slow start
not really some folk will get it day one on xbox gamepass and some will go see what the hype is about
Don't point out any potential problems with Silksong, because Team Cherry will see this video and delay the game by another year to fix them.
Then they'll get an idea for a new area, boom, another delay
I think the very first part of Hollow Knight is one the best starts i've ever experienced in a game, and here's why.
I'm refferring to the very first area of the game, because i feel like Greenpath, is where most of the people started to be interested in the title.
So, why Forgotten Crossroads is so uninteresting for some people?
These are the points i think people would have for that claim:
-It's a slow ass start(neither a bad thing nor a good one)
-The blueish color of the area looks kinda boring for some and the enemies are repetitive
-At the beginnig of the game people loose themselves within the area, not even knowing how to get out of it and they leave the game
-Since there are no abillties, the game seems really slow, and people don't want to put that much time and effort in exploring an already boring area
-there are probably few other points, share yours if you feel like it, i'll try to get them answered
And this are my points:
-The start's slowness isn't that much of problem for me, although I understand why a lot of people feel the opposite way
-The blue's dominance into the Forgotten Crossroads color palette serves a purpose, as well as the enemies(this is an opinion)
They have to represent a long fallen kingdom, and the sadness of those places.
With that said, isn't blue the perfect color to display these ideas?
-Enemies are really important, since they have the task of making the player learn how the Hollow Knight basics works, and they also have an hidden purpose.
They make the player know the False knight's attacks even before their first encounter with him(for instance, the jumping husk that makes you learn how to doge the boss jumps or the giant guards with their shockwaves similar to the boss ones)
-This area is also linked to other very important areas.
And is the one you'll return the most to, during the playthrough
This are my points, thank you for reading my long ass comment.
P.S.
There are probably some flaws in the comment, since english isn't my first language, I hope I made myself clear enough.
Pls read it, I put in it so much effort.
Holy milksong
The problem is that masterbaiter is not cannon
9:08 i want silksong to be popular and successful but not in a way where almost every 8 year old kids talks about hornet being void or where half of my school talks the lore and gets everything wrong. i just dont want silksong to become what fortnite, roblox or brawl stars became (even minecraft). u cant even mention any of these games to 80% of people without getting absolutely sh1t on. i know that wont happen because silksong is a different kind of game but you know what im trying to say
5:30 warframe lmaooo but i got over 700 hours but thats so true
Ok definitely tomorrow