The KEY to Reading In Another Language
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2021
- This is book notes ep 4: Reading in another language, Wittgenstein's language games and my misadventure in a French cultural study class.
Additional Reading:
Intro to Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations (Lecture): • Wittgenstein. The Phi...
Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus: www.gutenberg.org/files/5740/...
Philosophical Investigations:
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My latest personal essay on how to deal with confusion when reading difficult books: rcwaldun.com/blog/the-pleasur...
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I tried reading Harry Potter in a second language that I had been studying. I highlighted, researched and drew a picture of each word I didn’t fully recognize - and there were many. At that rate, it took two or three times as long to read a single chapter and my comprehension skills decreased dramatically for a story I already knew. When I gave up this method, I found myself dramatically more inclined to read more in a second language and only quickly translated words that I Really needed to.
It’s easy to forget how we acquire our first language as we are/ we’re young when learning it, but essentially we started by looking for context clues in a text rather than pulling a dictionary out for every word we don’t know
(linguistics graduate here) there's a theory of implicit vocabulary learning where picking up novel words occurs following repeated exposure to those words across multiple contexts (although the number isn't quite agreed upon). I think this theory of implicit learning ties nicely with the language game, because it shows how our mind is capable of picking up the game's rules in quite spectacular ways. Indeed without the need to look up every single word's meaning, but by picking up on certain language patterns.
Even after studying English to a university level, I still have so much to learn, and I'm not even mad at that. It's super fun figuring out the nuts and bolts of a language at one's own pace. Greek being my first language sure as hell helps with figuring out the meaning to many unfamiliar English words, without needing to look them up 😂
What job can you work with a linguistics degree?
@@erik-sr9bj specifically it's a mix of English language and linguistics. The obvious answer would be to an English language teacher, which, screw that haha. Basically the skills you gain from the degree can be applied to a wide range of areas, such as in research (although you'd probably get a PhD for that), marketing, editing/proofreading, translating, speech therapy. I personally like writing so my top choices are content and/or copywriting, editing and the like.
@@siaa1322 you picked a shitty degree
@@beachwave5705 as far as its practical value is concerned, it is shitty indeed
It's interesting. Look into Krashen's theory
I studied Wittgenstein at university. I loved his later work! His private language argument is worth understanding. "meaning is use"
I completely agree that this reading method is great once you're intermediate in a language! Actually, it reminds me of how I went about reading Ulysses, even though it's in English. Understanding the overall meaning the text is trying to convey is much more worthwhile than going crazy looking up every word you don't know.
I was also intrigued by Wittgenstein's ideas on language so I'll check out Philosophical Investigations.
Have a great evening, Robin!✨
Thanks Robin. My favourite from Philosophical Investigations : "“If a lion could speak, we couldn’t understand him.” (Wittgenstein 2008, p. 190)
So true. I am Italian and I managed to read my first book in its original English, HP and the half-blood prince, by just reading and not looking up the dictionary. For example, I didn't have to know what mistletoe is in Italian, I just have to know that it's a branch that the English people kiss under in Christmas. From then on I gained confidence and now I can read anything.
I always write the unknown words down and look them up later so I can understand or make sense of it while reading but still get to know the real definition afterwards
REALLY enjoy your videos and your takes are always interesting to see.
As foreigner I should say that even though I haven't understood everything you said I got the idea. And I guess that's the point. Thank you Robin!
It's kinda funny whatching you describe all that language stuffs that came to you. As someone who doesn't have English as my mother's tongue, I kinda "naturalized" all this problems you've been through. Since I was a kid, I had to search for a "English advanced course" if I would like to have any purpose in my life; and its really struggled me because being very honest, it's not that easy put yourself into a class and spend years and years just to learn a new idiom, especially when your mother's tongue has nothing similar to the idiom being studied. Anyways, after spending lots of years studying English, I'm able to finally expand my favorite hobby: reading. I loved your tips and I must agree with everything you said. Despite all the problems, learn another language is an amazing process! Congrats for your CZcams channel!
Haha, what great timing, I am also enrolling in an intermediate language course in a few days, but in my case it's German. Hope I get challenged the same way you were, I really want to learn to use this beautiful language proficiently.
Viel Glück :)
@@cherryjuice9705 Vielen Dank!
hey wie läuft's? lernst du noch deutsch?
thank you for sharing your knowledge about this matter dude. its really help a lot to tried controlling my urge and be patient when trying to understand something especially books in foreign language.
What a coincidence. Currently I write my assignment related to Wittgenstein. This content can help me out
Wittgenstein? Damn. How depressed are you atm?
Hi Robin! The following thoughts are not intended to be contentious but rather to communicate what I was thinking as I listened to your video.
There is validity in both the ideas of Augustine and Wittgenstein. In the case of the former, learning to communicate as a child is most assuredly a process of repetitious association and consistency of tone. In fact, I think this method, in a fundamental way, works for all domesticated mammalians as well as humans. For example, my dog can not say the word "no," but thanks to repeated association and consistency of tone, she knows what it means. This early language development is foundational for the uniquely human ability to express a higher form of communication involving abstract conceptual thought as we develop our cognitive abilities later in life. Your example of the idiom "he is driving me up a wall," is a prefect one. In my mind's eye I imagine these very tangible things and actors being associated in an exaggerated way to illustrate an extreme of frustration. These concepts only make sense because I had previously learned, by association, what each word communicates.
Wittgenstein does not altogether reject Augustine's view of language (known as the ostensive view of language), but rather says it's not sufficient to account for all use of language. What he does is try to complete the picture.
While I'm not sure if you like movies, I am taking the liberty of recommending you some. All three are about the art and often misunderstanding of writing. If you want a Double Feature movie evening, I would recommend watching "Tolkien" followed "Rebel in the Rye". Both star Nicholas Hoult as a struggeling writer (as J.R.R. Tolkien and J.D. Salinger). And if you are even interested in a third film; "My Salinger Year" works as a great epilogue to "Rebel in the Rye". Dark Academia vibes are very present in all three films.
Greeting from The Netherlands!
Jip
R.C!! If you’d like a challenge, I suggest you read Noli Me Tangere in Filipino or Spanish. It’s a fiction by our national hero. But around the 19th century, you were considered smart or intellectual if you understood Spanish (this was when the Spanish invaded the Philippines). The one who wrote was a Filipino who did understand Spanish was in good graces with the Spaniards, but then he still wanted to fight our country’s independence, which is why he wrote Noli Me Tangere. I’d definitely understand why you wouldn’t wanna read it in Filipino lol but maybe you’d wanna read it in Spanish since it’s the original? (They have english too lol dw) Just putting it out there because it’s a classic and a really good one at that! love from the Philippines ❤️🇵🇭
Funny because Im here to learn Filipino - I moved here 9 years ago yet havent moved up an intermediate level of tagalog and want to read all the good classic novels here so bad which is why Im here
Fascinating topic!
Some people that make interesting content about language learning in general here on youtube are:
-MattvsJapan: Input based approach and uses a lot of Stephen Krashen's Ideas;
-Luca Lampariello: Popularized or created the Bidirectional translation method for learning a new lang;
-Benny Lewis: A more focused on speaking-based approach from the beginning (I don't like this approach, but it is worth seeing a different opinion).
If you don't know them, they have many interesting ideas about this topic.
PS: Stephen Krashen is a Ph.D. researcher in the field.
Thank you so much for everything u changed my perspective
You sir have earned a very interested subscriber. Cheers.
Wittgenstein's family resemblance categories helped me transition my gender. Great author.
Thank you for this video! I'm in my first semester of intermediate French right now and I am struggling. I feel so dumb because I feel like I shouldn't be an intermediate French student after 2 semesters of French. I barely speak my native language and English!
As a non-native speaker, I always find it intriguing to know how does a native speaker understand all the vocabularies, say when they decide to read a novel.... Since English is a rather unique language that is being written and spoken by people coming from different places, and I believe the local dialects can cause a lot of confusion even to native English speakers. I just always wonder how the natives cope with this problem. But one thing I do agree with Rob for sure, referring to the dictionary frequently when leafing through the pages does drive me nuts.
I'm really really really really really really really really happy I found you.
You have a really cool voice, one that I wouldn't expect you'd have. It's like with David Beckham, his voice is really disappointing, haha.
I don’t understand how this guy is _Australian,_ actually. How did he develop a perfect North American accent (and, for that matter, why)?
Thank you!
A very nice community has formed around this channel
Magagamit mo rin ata to'ng mga suggestions niya in dealing with foreign language like science hahahaha... I never thought i would stumble in this video when im actually in the verge of not understanding a lot of terms in my nursing book... Salamat 😊
Good one!
I'm a high school Spanish teacher and soon-to-be master's student of Spanish language. This is super helpful! Do you have recommendations on how to practice language game within it's context?
Amazing !
Pllz next video : how to not be insecure about knowledge of others 😶😶😶😶❤❤
7
oooh yes yes up up up
I think association is definitely a plus in learning french BUT I took a year of french in the AF and didn't learn much. I downloaded an app that dictated and repeated numbers in french. I basically could say in french any number (as huge as possible) in french in two days. Yes the entire numbering system. WTF? I think repetition and dictation in a high speed environment also pumps up your brain.
I'm literally answering this 1:21 on my homework rn ("les parents de nathalie ont envie de visiter l'italie") what a coincidence lmao
This background ❤
Fascinating, idiomatic language is so slippery for non-native speakers.
I look up the meaning and the pronunciation of every single word I don't know, and it helps a lot. It seems if I compare myself with people who spend the same amount of time on learning the language but who neglect this practice I see that my skill is significantly better.
I am with you. I did the same
as an austrian (german is my native language) i love this
how did you know i just signed up for czech literature course and was struggling? a-are you a fortune teller?😳
U got an instant sub from me. Ur voice and the way u speak reminded me so much of markiplier and I am obsessed with him AND you read so like instantly obsessed 😅❤
what do you mean by "practice the language"? Should I talk to people in this language? Watch movies without subtitles? Is that what you mean? I'm confused. I love your videos, but I'm genuinely confused.
I'm learning latin right now, my mother tongue is spansh so i guess is easier for me, nontheless something that i usefull for me is read by voice -i don't know if say this is correct but i guess is understandable-, and just by hearing i can understand more. Sorry my english tho
That’s how I learnt English, can read in French, and can understand some basic Korean
make a vid about wittgenstein tractatus
Me (an etymologist): *sees video title*
Nah, I'll pass. :)
I never looked the words up because I am too lazy…
"don't look up every word...spend more time practicing the language in a context that involves these subtle language games" what would that look like exactly? how should I practice a language and learn new words without looking up the meaning of words I don't know? Of course words are often used in a non-literal way, but you're more likely to understand the subtle meanings within words if you know their basic definition, even if that's not always enough to understand everything.
I would agree that it's not intelligent to try to learn a new language by taking a dictionary and trying to memorize words because context is wholly important to language. But looking up the meaning of words you don't know is important to understand them in context, even if it's not always going to give you all the understanding.
I watched the whole clip just for this advice:"don't look up every word at the dictionary" and "practice the language in it's real world context". 9 minutes are way to long for these 2 points, and the second one is stupid, I have no idea what it would mean to pratice a language in it's real world context, does it meam you read only news? Or you only talked to people? Should I watch another 9 minutes clip for the answer?
is this american english?
Adapt or die 😅
God, I hated Wittgenstein. Early and later.
Ergh I know he's quite a handful to read. 😂
Do you believe in God?
What in the world is your problem?
@@consus9739 sorry, sorry. I just need know.
Just use google translate wtf lol
This gave me no useful advice at all.