The IndieDroid Nova is already turning out to be an awesome arm based SBC, What Distro do you want to see tested Next? Cant wait to see what the Devs will do with this thing.
I don't think I'll be bothering to get into any SBC stuff until the prices come down. $144 is way too expensive for a hobby level computer. And the worst part is that I can go and pick up a slim workstation desktop PC that some office ewasted for like $30 and it'll run more stuff, be faster and easier to work with because it's already self contained. The prices for current gen SBC's have really played themselves. They started out super cheap and perfect for hobbyists and then got too full of themselves and priced themselves right out of the hobbyist market.
for a lot of people its the performance per watt , some its the for factor and size , some is silent operation and some are true makers and home automation enthusiasts. there are still super cheap boards like the pico and zero (W) and similar form factor but they have less performance as well. all have a different use case , the way this comes with android 12 , the experience will be very similar to a lower end phone , without out the touch , haptic feed back or integrated screen albeit.
@@tobiwonkanogy2975 to be fair the tiny/mini/micro usff pcs idle so low and have great performance. I’ve got a couple and they idle at 5-6W. Not far off these arm boards.
@@alexlovett1991 I totally agree the wattage the sbcs serve is roughly 0 - 7 ish watts and then stepping up about 7 - 35 watts for a mini pc, ultra light laptop ,tablet. then small desktop(socket) at 45 - 65 watts. With some stepping over the lower wattage line to perform at a higher tier. Could change too.
@@new-lviv you bought it for 150$ because of scalpers and RasPi's new endeavor to support businesses over hobbyists, not because that was the true base cost. During COVID, they were only making 500k units a month. They decided to ensure supporting businesses so they got first dibs, leaving consumer outlets at "Sold Out" to this day. They should not cost 150$. But, because people like you are willing to pay that price to the RasPi scalpers, everyone else is latching on and starting out that high since it's the only alternative. A 4GB only cost like 75$ pre-COVID
I guess in a way they "got full of themselves" but it's not because the SBCs themselves. I think it's more like because RasPi made the decision to support business over hobbyist, any RasPi's found in the wild ended up being triple marked up to $150+. Now that people are willing to pay that price because it's the only consumer level price you can find, everyone else was like, let's price ours the same as well.
I can't help but feel like we're getting further away from RPi's original mission of making small, CHEAP, computers for hobby and education purposes. These other companies aren't wrong but I think they may be exploiting the shortage to make more money. The spirit of the hobby is suffering.
Rpi trading LTD it's a capitalist enterprise like any other, they follow profits, not what you mean. It's fair tho, just do not treat others as evils to try the same thing. There is no moral superiority here. If rpi can provide a better product for Hobbist at a better price, they will keep the crown then.
people dont want to "code" just like they dont want to be mathematicians. like the linux community doesnt want to compete. like the linux community doesnt want to have a GUI. its not about cheap price either....... computers/computing/tech are no longer going to cater to the developers...the market has changed. 95% of BUYERS are not computer enthusiasts any more theyre normie users... WE are not the market anymore or even half of it...we are not the focus...so now devices like these are seen a 2% of the market not 20%..... we have entered the "i dont get out of bed for less than a $ million $" stage..... welcome to automatic transmissions, fuel economy, cargo room reasonably priced sedan era.... where computers are sold based on flashy RGB fans, new games, spec bragging and internet browsing
it aint shortages.(imho)....they just dont care to try....theres other chips and other things they could do...like release a pi-X with completely different chipset and similar performance (and finally fix their lack of power button/USB/HDMI issues) and other complaints some people have... heck some will never be happy till they release with a current laptop soc and ram slots
@@kazzxtrismus Raspberry fell out with RS who used to manufacture under licence whilst anything else has been blamed from Covid to shortages that it wasn't and isn not. Upton has been extremely disingenuous, but Raspberry itself is as really it is no longer what it purports to be with the STEM side of things now just being a side show to commercial activities. There is talent at Raspberry but its just something that happens to British firms where often the founders need to hand over to fresh blood, but even then the once very strong Broadcom partnership has become an Achilies heel.
People wouldn't click on the affiliate links that much. So it would hurt the click farm earnings. Consequence is that most reviews on CZcams shouldn't be taken that serious anymore.
The price often changes based on sales, availability, manufacturing costs, etc. In fact, the price he would've posted would've been incorrect because there are currently coupon codes that apply to this.
Everything that is released after the Rpi4 is faster than it, though performance hardly matters if it's not backed up with great software and support by a large community. Might as well just grab a low power mini pc to get great performance, low power consumption and great support.
It doesn't make much of a difference performance wise, but it's a RK3588S instead of the mentioned RK3588. That makes it very expensive compared to the Orange Pi 5
The OPi5 is currently being sold below cost in order to gain market share, and the price will be marked higher soon. We've invested a lot in development and community for this board and we provide a lot of great accessories along with it to give our community a great experience and value. We hope you'll agree!
@@Ameridroid1 we know you guys have amazing products. I was looking at batocera support, any work on getting gpu drivers for Linux? I want to use this for batocera and or Emuelec? Also any new amlogic boards down the road?
@@wolffactor56 Yes, TechToyTinker released an Armbian Gnome distro for the Nova that's using GPU acceleration (panfork IIRC). The other distro maintainers are free to do so as well.
@@Ameridroid1 You are claiming the Orange Pi 5 is sold below cost... Can you give a source of that? I doubt it. They probably spread their investments costs over a lot more machines, but that's normal capitalism.
@@erikkarsies4851 The bulk price of the RK3588S is close to the price of what they are selling the board at. If they order 100 times more chips than what we'd expect, the price would only go down $2-3 at most. So bulk pricing can't support building boards at that price.
It's not much of a comparison if the prices is almost twice as much as the pi. The 8/64 GB version of this on the website is $180 (plus whatever shipping ends up being). I bought my Raspberry PI 4 8 GB for $75, around $14 for a 64 SD card and another $8 for heat sink and fans (free shipping on all of it). That makes it a difference of $83. Even with the inflated prices currently, you can still get that model for under $90. I don't understand why all these SCB's are being compared to the PI when they cost more, some a lot more. If you pay double, triple or even 4 times the price of a PI, of course you should expect it to perform better.
Orange Pi 5 which wipes the floor with Rpi4(3x times faster CPU and 15x times faster GPU) I got (Opi5 8GB model) on promotional event including PSU for just $75 shipped to my home from aliexpress. I was able to reuse one of my many used NVMe 2280 drives with my Opi5 so I didn't spend any extra money on storage.
Triple performance for twice the price is still a .5x ratio net positive. Pi is the baseline for sbc, it's what everyone knows, thus, its compared by both price, performance, power draw, and thermals so you can determine if the additional capability is enough to justify it.
@@Xibyth You got your facts wrong. I got my Rpi4 8GB on launch date in may 2020 for $75, Official PSU adapter was $12, case was $20. If We are comparing similar products here, a $75 8GB Opi5 vs a Rpi4 8GB that was $87 without including shipping cost from official retailer($15). You may need to change you ratio net positive. 90% of what can be done on Rpi4 can be done also on any other ARM SBC alternative having RK3588/RK3588S CPU. You just need to be proficient in Linux. Rock5B with RK3588 has changed the game for a Rpi4 competitor. Go a check how many available Linux and Android Distros(images) are available for that board. A whooping total of 19 Linux and And Android versions that work on that board, most of them work out-of-the-box aimed to the beginner/intermediate user.
I've been waiting for a Pi form factor RK3588 board. I just ordered one of these, it looks awesome. I wish the production heatsink had the fan cutout though, I don't like the idea of having a fan sticking out the top. Hopefully they will sell both options.
They didn't bring out the PCI express from this SoC onto an m.2 slot. Nearly all other SBCs which use the same processor HAVE brought out the PCIe lane. Weird that they didn't do this considering the high end price...
We agree that an M.2 would be great! Unfortunately, this size of a board is already pressed for space. The designers would have had to cut out some other features in order to make room for an M.2 slot.
well they kinda did, the rk3588s soc has 2 pci-e 2.0 lanes (multiplexed with usb 3.0/sata). - since usb 3.0 is used, one multiplexed lane is already unavailable. - the 2nd pci-e 2.0 lane is used to link to the wifi chipset. So there are no lanes left to expose... For this you could use the regular Orange Pi 5(non b) it has no wifi/bt and emmc but has a nmve slot and is only $ 75 or go for the more expensive rk3588(non s) based rock5 model B, with more io like 2x pci-e 3.0x2 hdmi in etc for about $ 200
@@Ameridroid1 I understand there are physical limitations. I'd trade both the SD and EMMC hardware space for an NVME slot. This is just want I want for my next project, I understand other people have other needs. I have PI's with SATA m.2 cards hanging off the USB but, it limits what kind of hats I can use. I don't really know what would be more popular.
@@ChristopheVerdonck Keep in mind that the Orange Pi 5 price is an introductory price where they are losing money on each sale, in hopes of building their community. ameriDroid is also one of the few SBC companies based in the US.
I just got my indiedroid nova and I'm impressed. Working great out-of-the-box with all needed features as a linux desktop/retro gaming machine. Currently using armbian/gnome image and is working like a champ. It's very stable once you disable suspend mode.
Is it possible you could make a video of you going to Settings > Developer Options > Force Desktop mode So we can see what it looks like and how it behaves?
Just ordered one of these thanks to your recommendation. According to the site the kit comes with the Heatsink and fan. Can't wait to start playing with this thing.
It is good to see another RK3588S device, which will increase availability and community support. The big problem with this one is the eMMC, which are hellishly expensive compared to M.2, so whilst this has WiFi and Bluetooth, it lacks NVMe support, which for me still makes the Orange Pi 5 the favourite between the two. It makes me wonder whether Rockchip could produce an intermediate RK3588 that a little more I/O option than the S but less than the full fat SOC. If there could be NVMe and WiFi/BT on one board with all the I/O that the S SOC has then it would make it even more desirable at a cheap enough price.
I feel like we need a comparison of all 3588(S) SBCs. How does this one compare to Orange Pi 5/B or Nano Pi R6S? I kinda feel like people wanting a Raspberry Pi alternative for tinkering or emulation, but with more performance, should go for whichever is cheaaper. Right now Orange Pi 5 4GB costs 83$ on amazon, so the price difference is huge, and even R6S with 8GB RAM and heatsink-case included is cheaper. But maybe there are some critical differences?
The S is a cheaper chip, that PCI-E is a big value add if you're going to use it as serious computer with disk I/O. IndieDroid Nova should be compared with Rock5, around $200 currently.
@@TomaszStachewicz yeah, 3588 has more I/O, but 3588S still has enough I/O for a monitor, K&M and SATA storage (I don't recall which one, but one of the boards has M2 storage slot?), and the CPU has pretty much the same performance, right? I get that in grand scheme of things, all these boards are made for serious industries, not us, average internet people, but I wonder if there is any reason to go after more expensive model, when all I need is what ETA does: low power desktop replacement for internet and emulation. 3588S models, with enough performance to run PS2 emulation, appear to be an interessting choice when compared e.g. to post-leassing x86 Dell Wyse devices.
@@TomaszStachewicz this should be compared with the $ 90 orange pi 5b 4GB, also has wifi and 32gb emmc. if you don't need onboard wifi and emmc and want pci-e 2.0 you could get the regular orange pi 5 4GB for $ 75, most other 3588s sbcs like this IndieDroid Nova, nano pic and others are to expensive. (until the rock5 model a come's out) The $200 Rock5 model B that is currently out, has the full 3588(non s) soc and is useful if you need more io than just usb3 + a single pci-e 2.0 lane. imho the 3588s + 2/4gb ram looks like a perfect combo for emulation.
Really interested to see more linux action on these SBCs! It would be awesome to see waydroid running on this thing, since it's an ARM chip you should have near native compatibility with most Android apps out there within your linux environment. I'd be particularly interested in seeing if the moonlight android app works within waydroid on this SBC. It would also be neat to see Minecraft running through prism launcher, how far could you push mods and shaders on an ARM CPU like this? Keep up the good content Prime, much love ❤
The Indedroid Nova could make for a great vintage computer project: Commodore, Apple, or even Atari based computers. You could easily bring any of those into the 21st century with SBC's such as this.
hey Man I love your video, but one thing you have to stop saying we finally got a sbc that can rival the pi. I lost count already on how many rk3588 unit you have reviewed. I do love the content even it's a bit repeatative but very zen and relaxing.
I brought four Pi 4 around 2019 before the Pandemic at about $60 each for different projects. I was rooting for the Pi because it was affordable tinkering and learning solution. Sad that these boards are so expensive now. Haven't got an IndieDroid yet and after this video I am pretty interested. ETA could you post or link a setup video for the Indie for the gaming setup when you have time? I could play older Atari or nes games on my Pi to a 720P or 1080 tv, but it just doesn't cut it on a 4K tv. So would be great if can see this being tested on a 4K tv.
Raspberry Pi, from our experience, wants to use a chip that only they have access to. Our best guess is that Raspberry Pi is already in the process of designing their own chip for the next generation. However, it will be interesting to see price/performance/features on that chip.
@@Ameridroid1 Exactly right. It'll likely be something called RP4080 with 4 cores and be evolved version of RP2040 and be built to price. Just guessing.
I always love seeing the difference boards available as alternative fo a raspberry pi, but I don't see very much information on programming and using the GPIO pins on them. I tried to program and use a Bannana Pi board and it was a nightmare to get working and some things never worked correctly. I realize that you focus on performance in difference OS's and retro gaming, but would it possible to see how easy it would be to get a programing IDE and the GPIO pins working. Nothing super fancy, just blinking some LEDs on a generic raspberry pi HAT. I still really enjoy your content and keep up the great work.
I mean competing against a $40 RPi, at 4x the performance it is pretty comparable to 4x raspberry Pi's so I cant complain about the $144 USD price tooo much, its pretty comparable
This thing looks great. Looking forward to seeing a dedicated "emulation performance on Linux" video. I just can't do Android as a desktop OS, plus Linux is infinitely more configurable.
I like it , but think their Margin (at moment) is to high. You can tell they are banking on RPI being scarce. Also, they need a bare bone version. What if yours burns out? You don't need the "Bundle"
At 144.95 this thing's not on the same price class as a raspberry, maybe at worst a scalped Pi 4. The staggering price makes it unviable for the vast majority of projects, and for the ones that it's viable you have other alternatives at that price.
I do not care for the Street Fighter Duel. I am also a SF fan and deleted it after a day of playing it. Love the channel and glad I can support a WF area talent!
I'd like to see full Armbian test, and with that a benchmark comparison with the Orange Pi 5. I have an Orange Pi 5 which is about the same price, or maybe even a few bucks cheaper. Orange Pi 5 with the RK3588S, 4gb, and I added a case and an 256GB 2242 NVMe SSD in PCIe slot (no PCIe on the IndieDroid?). The IndieDroid and the Orange Pi 5 (with power supply, case and NVMe) ended up about the price as listed for the IndieDroid. The Orange Pi 5 is very responsive with Armbian, with very few software glitches. This is the first time in several years I got an SBC that had a fully functional OS within a year of its release that worked this well. Even 64 bit Raspberry Pi OS took well over a year. The Orange Pi 5 is my daily driver desktop computer now.
Please start including audio driver testing as part of your testing. Video playback is great, but knowing if the OS has Dolby Vision support that works is just as important.
This is the last time I purchase a unit from ETA suggestion, received this unit yesterday, did not come with Android installed, only Ubuntu Minimal, now I have to go through the process of learning how to install Android from a distro, I am not Linux code savvy so this is definitely going to be a challenge. Disappointed is an understatement, and while the Indiedroid people said they would help me get Android installed it should have come that way in the first place.
Stating on their website that the full heatsink and fan is a "$60 value" should be a reliable indicator of how much they have overinflated the cost of this SBC.
Heatsink like this for the Raspberry Pi 4 at Adafruit is $24.95, fan is $5. 32GB eMMC at Hardkernel is $26.90. $56.85 is a little less than the stated $60, that is true. The marketing team likes rounding things off. 😅
@@Ameridroid1 Am i missing something or is that eMMC extremely overpriced? You have mentioned somewhere else in here that a barebones would still cost 100$, you guys might have better luck selling a barebones system to be used with a microSD, because these things are not adding value to it, they ruin the value of the SBC.
I learned when the odroid xu4 launched that the pi users dont care about something much better,they like the pi for its coolness factor or something… it baffled me as to why the xu4 didnt catch on like crazy back when it launched
People get Raspberry Pis because of the Community Support and updated but backwards (with older models) compatible OS. They want to get an embedded system up and running so they can do something with it. Not spend weeks tinkering as a HW / SW engineer trying to get it to work.
@@jasonwhipple8768 the xu4 had a few initial images for it and it worked fairly well but as stated before,the pi guys aren’t in it for the performance. I have 2 pi’s myself so I I understand.
Color coding for USB 2 is black. White is color coded for USB 1.0 and 1.1. Color coding for USB 3.0 is blue. I know some companies use red, green, purple for their USB 3.0 ports but to use white instead of black to represent USB 2.0 ports indicates this company is running cheap.
i may be the only person who cares about this, but i would love to see the xbox app run on any android device. not the cloud version, but the console streaming version.
Ya, it's honestly crazy to see how expensive these little SBC's are getting. This is getting into off-lease office PC pricing, and they are WAY more powerful and capable.
Indeed for 150 $ you get an used/second-hand older very powerful i5 laptop that's very upgradeale. Besides including having keyboard/trackpad/speakers/webcam and optional battery, what the heck.
And I/O? How does that compare to the RPi? Are programs written for the RPi compatible with this thing? And I don't mean python, java or any other interpreted language, derivatives but C or similar programming languages.
Looks like a great SBC. Can we use a single usb-c cable for power and video. I've been considering another Raspberry Pi but I refuse to buy from scalpers. Last last Pi is a 3.
Got it today. Can't turn it on, tried 4 different power supplies🤔. Red LED is turned on and the network light is on. Nothing happens when I press either Power or Boot buttons. Any ideas?
one thing i need to know if it can support usb otg thru the power port like the pi 4? i use that allot so i can debug my pi on my laptop by just plugging the pi in with a usb c cable
Idea - router to remote router with wifi connection but the room router with cable to each sbc and pc no need for extra password. Mitigate a lot of problems
Nice vid but... its 3x the performance - Great! its 3x or more the price - makes it 1/3 as great... Starting to think "best" is another word for "new". Although relative to the crazy markup nowadays on everything probably not that bad of a deal
Seems you are fixated on price. Price isn't the only factor when evaluating a product.... it isn't enen the most important factor. Maybe you should expand your basis of evaluation.
@@johnmichaels4330 i would argue that price is one of if not the most important factors when evaluating a product, performance and other factors only really matter if the price is competitive. nobody is going to buy something that costs more that does the same thing as something else. not everyone has infinite money
@@johnmichaels4330 No, price is the most important factor for a 'fun SBC' (like the Pi once was) Remember : for about 200 dollar you can make a 5600G based system if the price is not an issue.
@sweatbox64 that's a pretty enemic argument. I'd pay $36000 for my scope if it gave me features that let hit my target and survive the battlefield. A $1200 scope might let me hit my target, but it would reflect light and have very few features. The value is in the application and convenience. This is why we don't all drive crappy civics.
@erikkarsies4851 I think yall are just butt hurt about the scalping prices of the Pis. This is comparably priced. The argument seems to have devolved to "its not a cheap little toy anymore". Well, it's not so get over it. Now you'll have to save up a little or work a little more. This sounds like an amazing value to me.
The IndieDroid Nova is already turning out to be an awesome arm based SBC, What Distro do you want to see tested Next? Cant wait to see what the Devs will do with this thing.
Can you test the USB C displayport with the Nexdock?
Does these kind of SBC that have android too supports 4k streaming services (Widevine L1)?
Linux with GPU drivers, for some hardware-accelerated video playback (and maybe encoding). This has been bit of a pain point for its Rock5 cousin.
windows.
It's a RK3588S according to the website. So you seem to have made an error in the description ?
I don't think I'll be bothering to get into any SBC stuff until the prices come down. $144 is way too expensive for a hobby level computer. And the worst part is that I can go and pick up a slim workstation desktop PC that some office ewasted for like $30 and it'll run more stuff, be faster and easier to work with because it's already self contained.
The prices for current gen SBC's have really played themselves. They started out super cheap and perfect for hobbyists and then got too full of themselves and priced themselves right out of the hobbyist market.
for a lot of people its the performance per watt , some its the for factor and size , some is silent operation and some are true makers and home automation enthusiasts. there are still super cheap boards like the pico and zero (W) and similar form factor but they have less performance as well. all have a different use case , the way this comes with android 12 , the experience will be very similar to a lower end phone , without out the touch , haptic feed back or integrated screen albeit.
@@tobiwonkanogy2975 to be fair the tiny/mini/micro usff pcs idle so low and have great performance. I’ve got a couple and they idle at 5-6W. Not far off these arm boards.
@@alexlovett1991 I totally agree the wattage the sbcs serve is roughly 0 - 7 ish watts and then stepping up about 7 - 35 watts for a mini pc, ultra light laptop ,tablet. then small desktop(socket) at 45 - 65 watts. With some stepping over the lower wattage line to perform at a higher tier. Could change too.
@@new-lviv you bought it for 150$ because of scalpers and RasPi's new endeavor to support businesses over hobbyists, not because that was the true base cost.
During COVID, they were only making 500k units a month. They decided to ensure supporting businesses so they got first dibs, leaving consumer outlets at "Sold Out" to this day. They should not cost 150$. But, because people like you are willing to pay that price to the RasPi scalpers, everyone else is latching on and starting out that high since it's the only alternative. A 4GB only cost like 75$ pre-COVID
I guess in a way they "got full of themselves" but it's not because the SBCs themselves. I think it's more like because RasPi made the decision to support business over hobbyist, any RasPi's found in the wild ended up being triple marked up to $150+. Now that people are willing to pay that price because it's the only consumer level price you can find, everyone else was like, let's price ours the same as well.
I can't help but feel like we're getting further away from RPi's original mission of making small, CHEAP, computers for hobby and education purposes. These other companies aren't wrong but I think they may be exploiting the shortage to make more money.
The spirit of the hobby is suffering.
Rpi trading LTD it's a capitalist enterprise like any other, they follow profits, not what you mean. It's fair tho, just do not treat others as evils to try the same thing. There is no moral superiority here. If rpi can provide a better product for Hobbist at a better price, they will keep the crown then.
@@microlinux You missed the point entirely.
That part of the hobby like Google's "Do No Evil" pledge is dead forever. Covid and the chip shortage accelerated an otherwise inevitable process.
people dont want to "code" just like they dont want to be mathematicians.
like the linux community doesnt want to compete.
like the linux community doesnt want to have a GUI.
its not about cheap price either.......
computers/computing/tech are no longer going to cater to the developers...the market has changed.
95% of BUYERS are not computer enthusiasts any more theyre normie users...
WE are not the market anymore or even half of it...we are not the focus...so now devices like these are seen a 2% of the market not 20%.....
we have entered the "i dont get out of bed for less than a $ million $" stage.....
welcome to automatic transmissions, fuel economy, cargo room reasonably priced sedan era....
where computers are sold based on flashy RGB fans, new games, spec bragging and internet browsing
@@kazzxtrismus I suppose you're right, I guess the good old days are no longer huh?
RPi is being left behind because of these shortages. These Rock chips have amazing performance. Great Video as always!
Also because they became much more expensive
Raspberry are in a cul-de-sac due to Broadcom as where do they go?
it aint shortages.(imho)....they just dont care to try....theres other chips and other things they could do...like release a pi-X with completely different chipset and similar performance (and finally fix their lack of power button/USB/HDMI issues) and other complaints some people have...
heck some will never be happy till they release with a current laptop soc and ram slots
@@kazzxtrismus Raspberry fell out with RS who used to manufacture under licence whilst anything else has been blamed from Covid to shortages that it wasn't and isn not.
Upton has been extremely disingenuous, but Raspberry itself is as really it is no longer what it purports to be with the STEM side of things now just being a side show to commercial activities.
There is talent at Raspberry but its just something that happens to British firms where often the founders need to hand over to fresh blood, but even then the once very strong Broadcom partnership has become an Achilies heel.
@@rolyantrauts2304 not sure what you're going on about. the chips for raspberry are manufactured by a sony plant in england, last i checked.
Does youtube forbid you to show the price on video? I think is crucial information for this kind of videos
Couldn't agree more
People wouldn't click on the affiliate links that much. So it would hurt the click farm earnings. Consequence is that most reviews on CZcams shouldn't be taken that serious anymore.
The price often changes based on sales, availability, manufacturing costs, etc. In fact, the price he would've posted would've been incorrect because there are currently coupon codes that apply to this.
Everything that is released after the Rpi4 is faster than it, though performance hardly matters if it's not backed up with great software and support by a large community. Might as well just grab a low power mini pc to get great performance, low power consumption and great support.
It doesn't make much of a difference performance wise, but it's a RK3588S instead of the mentioned RK3588. That makes it very expensive compared to the Orange Pi 5
The OPi5 is currently being sold below cost in order to gain market share, and the price will be marked higher soon. We've invested a lot in development and community for this board and we provide a lot of great accessories along with it to give our community a great experience and value. We hope you'll agree!
@@Ameridroid1 we know you guys have amazing products. I was looking at batocera support, any work on getting gpu drivers for Linux? I want to use this for batocera and or Emuelec? Also any new amlogic boards down the road?
@@wolffactor56 Yes, TechToyTinker released an Armbian Gnome distro for the Nova that's using GPU acceleration (panfork IIRC). The other distro maintainers are free to do so as well.
@@Ameridroid1 You are claiming the Orange Pi 5 is sold below cost... Can you give a source of that? I doubt it. They probably spread their investments costs over a lot more machines, but that's normal capitalism.
@@erikkarsies4851 The bulk price of the RK3588S is close to the price of what they are selling the board at. If they order 100 times more chips than what we'd expect, the price would only go down $2-3 at most. So bulk pricing can't support building boards at that price.
I hope the next Pi comes with mini pcie. These new boards should be coming with mini pcie now at this stage.
What we do with mini pcie?
@@angelborislavov9192 maybe they also should put m.2 slot for storage
It's not much of a comparison if the prices is almost twice as much as the pi. The 8/64 GB version of this on the website is $180 (plus whatever shipping ends up being). I bought my Raspberry PI 4 8 GB for $75, around $14 for a 64 SD card and another $8 for heat sink and fans (free shipping on all of it). That makes it a difference of $83. Even with the inflated prices currently, you can still get that model for under $90. I don't understand why all these SCB's are being compared to the PI when they cost more, some a lot more. If you pay double, triple or even 4 times the price of a PI, of course you should expect it to perform better.
Orange Pi 5 which wipes the floor with Rpi4(3x times faster CPU and 15x times faster GPU) I got (Opi5 8GB model) on promotional event including PSU for just $75 shipped to my home from aliexpress. I was able to reuse one of my many used NVMe 2280 drives with my Opi5 so I didn't spend any extra money on storage.
Triple performance for twice the price is still a .5x ratio net positive. Pi is the baseline for sbc, it's what everyone knows, thus, its compared by both price, performance, power draw, and thermals so you can determine if the additional capability is enough to justify it.
@@Xibyth You got your facts wrong. I got my Rpi4 8GB on launch date in may 2020 for $75, Official PSU adapter was $12, case was $20. If We are comparing similar products here, a $75 8GB Opi5 vs a Rpi4 8GB that was $87 without including shipping cost from official retailer($15). You may need to change you ratio net positive. 90% of what can be done on Rpi4 can be done also on any other ARM SBC alternative having RK3588/RK3588S CPU. You just need to be proficient in Linux. Rock5B with RK3588 has changed the game for a Rpi4 competitor. Go a check how many available Linux and Android Distros(images) are available for that board. A whooping total of 19 Linux and And Android versions that work on that board, most of them work out-of-the-box aimed to the beginner/intermediate user.
My Nova arrived. It came with Armbian preinstalled. I'm quite impressed with its performance. Pretty happy so far.
Very nice board. Thanks!~
It would be great if there is a NVMe slot.
Ordered the IndieDroid last Thursday and just got it today!!
I've been waiting for a Pi form factor RK3588 board. I just ordered one of these, it looks awesome. I wish the production heatsink had the fan cutout though, I don't like the idea of having a fan sticking out the top. Hopefully they will sell both options.
Nice little computer. Thanks for the video.
They didn't bring out the PCI express from this SoC onto an m.2 slot. Nearly all other SBCs which use the same processor HAVE brought out the PCIe lane. Weird that they didn't do this considering the high end price...
My next SBC has to have an NVME slot. EMMC and SD card just won't cut it these days.
We agree that an M.2 would be great! Unfortunately, this size of a board is already pressed for space. The designers would have had to cut out some other features in order to make room for an M.2 slot.
well they kinda did, the rk3588s soc has 2 pci-e 2.0 lanes (multiplexed with usb 3.0/sata).
- since usb 3.0 is used, one multiplexed lane is already unavailable.
- the 2nd pci-e 2.0 lane is used to link to the wifi chipset.
So there are no lanes left to expose...
For this you could use the regular Orange Pi 5(non b) it has no wifi/bt and emmc but has a nmve slot and is only $ 75
or go for the more expensive rk3588(non s) based rock5 model B, with more io like 2x pci-e 3.0x2 hdmi in etc for about $ 200
@@Ameridroid1 I understand there are physical limitations. I'd trade both the SD and EMMC hardware space for an NVME slot. This is just want I want for my next project, I understand other people have other needs. I have PI's with SATA m.2 cards hanging off the USB but, it limits what kind of hats I can use.
I don't really know what would be more popular.
@@ChristopheVerdonck Keep in mind that the Orange Pi 5 price is an introductory price where they are losing money on each sale, in hopes of building their community. ameriDroid is also one of the few SBC companies based in the US.
I just got my indiedroid nova and I'm impressed. Working great out-of-the-box with all needed features as a linux desktop/retro gaming machine. Currently using armbian/gnome image and is working like a champ. It's very stable once you disable suspend mode.
Is it possible you could make a video of you going to
Settings > Developer Options > Force Desktop mode
So we can see what it looks like and how it behaves?
I went ahead and ordered the 16GB/64GB Bundle one. Thanks for the discount code.
Just ordered one of these thanks to your recommendation. According to the site the kit comes with the Heatsink and fan. Can't wait to start playing with this thing.
Have you gotten the Play Store installed on yours?
It is good to see another RK3588S device, which will increase availability and community support. The big problem with this one is the eMMC, which are hellishly expensive compared to M.2, so whilst this has WiFi and Bluetooth, it lacks NVMe support, which for me still makes the Orange Pi 5 the favourite between the two. It makes me wonder whether Rockchip could produce an intermediate RK3588 that a little more I/O option than the S but less than the full fat SOC. If there could be NVMe and WiFi/BT on one board with all the I/O that the S SOC has then it would make it even more desirable at a cheap enough price.
I feel like we need a comparison of all 3588(S) SBCs.
How does this one compare to Orange Pi 5/B or Nano Pi R6S?
I kinda feel like people wanting a Raspberry Pi alternative for tinkering or emulation, but with more performance, should go for whichever is cheaaper.
Right now Orange Pi 5 4GB costs 83$ on amazon, so the price difference is huge, and even R6S with 8GB RAM and heatsink-case included is cheaper.
But maybe there are some critical differences?
The S is a cheaper chip, that PCI-E is a big value add if you're going to use it as serious computer with disk I/O. IndieDroid Nova should be compared with Rock5, around $200 currently.
@@TomaszStachewicz Yep there's a good Explaining Computers video that explains and demonstrates the IO difference between the 's' and the 'full fat'.
@@TomaszStachewicz yeah, 3588 has more I/O, but 3588S still has enough I/O for a monitor, K&M and SATA storage (I don't recall which one, but one of the boards has M2 storage slot?), and the CPU has pretty much the same performance, right?
I get that in grand scheme of things, all these boards are made for serious industries, not us, average internet people, but I wonder if there is any reason to go after more expensive model, when all I need is what ETA does: low power desktop replacement for internet and emulation. 3588S models, with enough performance to run PS2 emulation, appear to be an interessting choice when compared e.g. to post-leassing x86 Dell Wyse devices.
@@TomaszStachewicz this should be compared with the $ 90 orange pi 5b 4GB, also has wifi and 32gb emmc. if you don't need onboard wifi and emmc and want pci-e 2.0 you could get the regular orange pi 5 4GB for $ 75, most other 3588s sbcs like this IndieDroid Nova, nano pic and others are to expensive. (until the rock5 model a come's out)
The $200 Rock5 model B that is currently out, has the full 3588(non s) soc and is useful if you need more io than just usb3 + a single pci-e 2.0 lane.
imho the 3588s + 2/4gb ram looks like a perfect combo for emulation.
Over $200 for the 16GB model. No thanks. I might as well by an AMD based minipc at that price with excellent integrated graphics.
I wish your videos like this would include pricing information.
I can't wait ti see the new Rockchip sets being used on sbc's when they have more on the market. :D
I've seen almost identical full body heatsinks for the pi4, they work great and are very eye turning.
Really interested to see more linux action on these SBCs!
It would be awesome to see waydroid running on this thing, since it's an ARM chip you should have near native compatibility with most Android apps out there within your linux environment. I'd be particularly interested in seeing if the moonlight android app works within waydroid on this SBC.
It would also be neat to see Minecraft running through prism launcher, how far could you push mods and shaders on an ARM CPU like this?
Keep up the good content Prime, much love ❤
moonlight works no prob on most sbc iv used
The Indedroid Nova could make for a great vintage computer project: Commodore, Apple, or even Atari based computers. You could easily bring any of those into the 21st century with SBC's such as this.
The RK3588 has proved to be pretty amazing. It's going to be interesting to see what the Raspberry Pi 5 does... next year maybe?
hey Man I love your video, but one thing you have to stop saying we finally got a sbc that can rival the pi. I lost count already on how many rk3588 unit you have reviewed. I do love the content even it's a bit repeatative but very zen and relaxing.
I brought four Pi 4 around 2019 before the Pandemic at about $60 each for different projects. I was rooting for the Pi because it was affordable tinkering and learning solution. Sad that these boards are so expensive now.
Haven't got an IndieDroid yet and after this video I am pretty interested. ETA could you post or link a setup video for the Indie for the gaming setup when you have time?
I could play older Atari or nes games on my Pi to a 720P or 1080 tv, but it just doesn't cut it on a 4K tv. So would be great if can see this being tested on a 4K tv.
If they ever make an rpi 5, they're really gonna have to step their game up
Super interested in the WOA version for this, if it even comes close to the 8cx gen 2 in 11 I will be super impressed
This is going to be so useful, thanks man
Welcome to the future lads.
How tf is this future?
It's the "unofficial" raspberry pi 5. Everyone is getting one, and the community will continue to grow.
Honestly, I'd be surprised if the next Rpi doesn't come with a Rockchip 3588 or better.
Raspberry Pi, from our experience, wants to use a chip that only they have access to. Our best guess is that Raspberry Pi is already in the process of designing their own chip for the next generation. However, it will be interesting to see price/performance/features on that chip.
@@Ameridroid1 Exactly right. It'll likely be something called RP4080 with 4 cores and be evolved version of RP2040 and be built to price. Just guessing.
I always love seeing the difference boards available as alternative fo a raspberry pi, but I don't see very much information on programming and using the GPIO pins on them. I tried to program and use a Bannana Pi board and it was a nightmare to get working and some things never worked correctly. I realize that you focus on performance in difference OS's and retro gaming, but would it possible to see how easy it would be to get a programing IDE and the GPIO pins working. Nothing super fancy, just blinking some LEDs on a generic raspberry pi HAT.
I still really enjoy your content and keep up the great work.
hey eta love you bro! keep it up!
Thank you so much 😀
I mean competing against a $40 RPi, at 4x the performance it is pretty comparable to 4x raspberry Pi's so I cant complain about the $144 USD price tooo much, its pretty comparable
Nicee! Just to point out, the CPU is 3 times more powerful, the GPU it's more than 15 times more powerful than thr Videocore VI on RPI4
This thing looks great. Looking forward to seeing a dedicated "emulation performance on Linux" video. I just can't do Android as a desktop OS, plus Linux is infinitely more configurable.
I like it , but think their Margin (at moment) is to high. You can tell they are banking on RPI being scarce. Also, they need a bare bone version. What if yours burns out? You don't need the "Bundle"
Nice. But with the vast selection of SBCs by now... do we actually already have the perfect one to drop into the "Gamestation 5"? :D
At 144.95 this thing's not on the same price class as a raspberry, maybe at worst a scalped Pi 4. The staggering price makes it unviable for the vast majority of projects, and for the ones that it's viable you have other alternatives at that price.
Yeah. This video just sounds like an ad. For the price, why wouldn't I forego an SBC for a mini pc with more RAM?
I do not care for the Street Fighter Duel. I am also a SF fan and deleted it after a day of playing it. Love the channel and glad I can support a WF area talent!
I'd like to see full Armbian test, and with that a benchmark comparison with the Orange Pi 5. I have an Orange Pi 5 which is about the same price, or maybe even a few bucks cheaper. Orange Pi 5 with the RK3588S, 4gb, and I added a case and an 256GB 2242 NVMe SSD in PCIe slot (no PCIe on the IndieDroid?). The IndieDroid and the Orange Pi 5 (with power supply, case and NVMe) ended up about the price as listed for the IndieDroid. The Orange Pi 5 is very responsive with Armbian, with very few software glitches. This is the first time in several years I got an SBC that had a fully functional OS within a year of its release that worked this well. Even 64 bit Raspberry Pi OS took well over a year. The Orange Pi 5 is my daily driver desktop computer now.
Small single-board machines like these make for fun system sandboxes. I hope QubesOS works with this!
Please start including audio driver testing as part of your testing. Video playback is great, but knowing if the OS has Dolby Vision support that works is just as important.
Can't wait to see handheld devices based on the RK3588 processor hopefully from Q3-Q4 2023. Once again, great video Eta👌
If everything goes to plan, we may have a surprise for you around Q3 or Q4 2023 then. ;-p
This is the last time I purchase a unit from ETA suggestion, received this unit yesterday, did not come with Android installed, only Ubuntu Minimal, now I have to go through the process of learning how to install Android from a distro, I am not Linux code savvy so this is definitely going to be a challenge. Disappointed is an understatement, and while the Indiedroid people said they would help me get Android installed it should have come that way in the first place.
great product, now we just need them to slap that thing into a pin compatible CM4 clone board, and we will really be talking.
this looks like a fantastic plex server candidate
Stating on their website that the full heatsink and fan is a "$60 value" should be a reliable indicator of how much they have overinflated the cost of this SBC.
Heatsink like this for the Raspberry Pi 4 at Adafruit is $24.95, fan is $5. 32GB eMMC at Hardkernel is $26.90. $56.85 is a little less than the stated $60, that is true. The marketing team likes rounding things off. 😅
@@Ameridroid1 Am i missing something or is that eMMC extremely overpriced? You have mentioned somewhere else in here that a barebones would still cost 100$, you guys might have better luck selling a barebones system to be used with a microSD, because these things are not adding value to it, they ruin the value of the SBC.
Also, don't agree with the brand naming. AmeriDroid? What is their connection to made in the USA?
TJWS as Atjeews runs great on Android, so Android is a great choice for wide range applications.
The GeekWorm NASPi Gemini 2.5 New Version with X882 V2.0 would work perfect with this board
really curious to see game streaming on this with an attached touchscreen tablet!
I learned when the odroid xu4 launched that the pi users dont care about something much better,they like the pi for its coolness factor or something… it baffled me as to why the xu4 didnt catch on like crazy back when it launched
People get Raspberry Pis because of the Community Support and updated but backwards (with older models) compatible OS. They want to get an embedded system up and running so they can do something with it. Not spend weeks tinkering as a HW / SW engineer trying to get it to work.
@@jasonwhipple8768 the xu4 had a few initial images for it and it worked fairly well but as stated before,the pi guys aren’t in it for the performance. I have 2 pi’s myself so I I understand.
I would like to see how it performs as a plex server
am i the only one who jumps straight to the MVSC2 testing on these videos?
Color coding for USB 2 is black. White is color coded for USB 1.0 and 1.1. Color coding for USB 3.0 is blue. I know some companies use red, green, purple for their USB 3.0 ports but to use white instead of black to represent USB 2.0 ports indicates this company is running cheap.
Does this have full google play store access natively? Also will this get android official updates?
Hey eta are you gonna show batocera running on this
When was the last time you saw him running Batocera on anything? It's been a while.
How does the Nova + compare to the Orange Pi 5?
The one question I have is can it run via a single USB-C port?
The USB-C port designed for power input is only for that. The second USB-C port can run a monitor.
I would love to install this into my car which has component overhead for the rear passengers....get plex and gaming back into the car!
I can't wait for a Handheld Device with this Chip. Anbernic are you listening???
I want to see it running OpenCPN with a GPS input, and WSJT-X Improved - under Debian or Ubuntu.
The NanoPi6C now this, makes it hard to even consider the Edge2. 100-150$ more for what.
This is amazing
How does it compare to an orange pi 5?
I mean, I got a Pi 3 Model B for free quite recently, only a few days ago. I'm surprised by it, actually.
i may be the only person who cares about this, but i would love to see the xbox app run on any android device. not the cloud version, but the console streaming version.
Hey, for future videos, please try Linux as well, I just think Android looks awful on these SBCs, although it runs faster in some cases.
Once they start putting 12L and/or 13 on these SBCs it'll start looking a lot better.
Call me when it's 75$
WANT $LOPPY$ECONDS?
I'm interested on seeing how many FPS it can process a real-time streaming webcam video running a Python program using a YoloV8 model.
3, because tensorflow spits out an error when you try to convert to whatever weird version of int8 it requires.
Raspberry Pi is $35. This board that doesn't even exist yet costs $150 to preorder.
It's available and shipping right now from our warehouse in California.
Hi would this SBC be powerful enough for DOS emulation for Blood, DN3D and Shadow Warrior? Does this SBC also outperform the Pi5?
I want to see all of it
Too expensive! (144 dollar for the 4 Gb version) Again! Not in the 'Fun SBC price range' where the Pi once was!
Ya, it's honestly crazy to see how expensive these little SBC's are getting. This is getting into off-lease office PC pricing, and they are WAY more powerful and capable.
Those "fun sbc" days are over. These are desktop replacement calibre now
@@richarddukard8989 My Desktop doesn't need replacement. That would be a very big downgrade. A lot of mobiles are faster than the RK3588S also.
Indeed for 150 $ you get an used/second-hand older very powerful i5 laptop that's very upgradeale. Besides including having keyboard/trackpad/speakers/webcam and optional battery, what the heck.
All of you guys are speaking what I'm thinking 😅
And I/O? How does that compare to the RPi? Are programs written for the RPi compatible with this thing? And I don't mean python, java or any other interpreted language, derivatives but C or similar programming languages.
Do you know if that camera CSI is 15-pin 2-lane, or 22-pin 4-lane?
Looks great!
Looks like a great SBC. Can we use a single usb-c cable for power and video. I've been considering another Raspberry Pi but I refuse to buy from scalpers. Last last Pi is a 3.
How important is the *FAN?* I love single board computers but I HATE fan noise.
I don't understand how the RPi foundation is having a hard time to provide pi's.
Got it today. Can't turn it on, tried 4 different power supplies🤔. Red LED is turned on and the network light is on. Nothing happens when I press either Power or Boot buttons. Any ideas?
i ordered one....car pc coming up.
In general, is SSX Tricky harder to emulate compared to the PS2 games he mentioned?
one thing i need to know if it can support usb otg thru the power port like the pi 4? i use that allot so i can debug my pi on my laptop by just plugging the pi in with a usb c cable
you forgot to test the power consumption =/ thanks!
Does it have DPI mode for the gpio like the RPI? This is really important if you want to output video from the gpio for some special hat to connect.
Very Interesting!!!!
Specs are great but at that price point I have zero interest. I can buy SFF pcs for far less that will handle all the retro gaming I want.
Idea - router to remote router with wifi connection but the room router with cable to each sbc and pc no need for extra password. Mitigate a lot of problems
Looks great but a bit expensive.
Just wondering what is the best SBC to run games like COD mobile? or Netflix in 4K?
Nice vid but...
its 3x the performance - Great!
its 3x or more the price - makes it 1/3 as great...
Starting to think "best" is another word for "new". Although relative to the crazy markup nowadays on everything probably not that bad of a deal
Seems you are fixated on price. Price isn't the only factor when evaluating a product.... it isn't enen the most important factor. Maybe you should expand your basis of evaluation.
@@johnmichaels4330 i would argue that price is one of if not the most important factors when evaluating a product, performance and other factors only really matter if the price is competitive. nobody is going to buy something that costs more that does the same thing as something else. not everyone has infinite money
@@johnmichaels4330 No, price is the most important factor for a 'fun SBC' (like the Pi once was) Remember : for about 200 dollar you can make a 5600G based system if the price is not an issue.
@sweatbox64 that's a pretty enemic argument. I'd pay $36000 for my scope if it gave me features that let hit my target and survive the battlefield. A $1200 scope might let me hit my target, but it would reflect light and have very few features. The value is in the application and convenience. This is why we don't all drive crappy civics.
@erikkarsies4851 I think yall are just butt hurt about the scalping prices of the Pis. This is comparably priced. The argument seems to have devolved to "its not a cheap little toy anymore". Well, it's not so get over it. Now you'll have to save up a little or work a little more. This sounds like an amazing value to me.
SBCs made a lot of sense at 35-50 USD range, at this price point they are not worth it imho.
This actually has decent enough specs, even if slightly highly priced. I could definitely use it as a desktop replacement and still game.
We're using them as desktop replacements here in the office.
360 emulation could be feasible on it.🎉
Batocera running Daytona USA for Dreamcast. This game always has low frame rates on a lot of the setups i have tried.
150 bucks for the 4gb model