Akai Force Review (vs. Ableton Push) - considering the latest updates
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- Are you an Ableton Live user considering the Akai Force? This is my honest review of the pros/cons - taking the newest updates into account. Spoiler: I bought the Force last year, right when it came out. Was hoping for a "standalone Ableton Live." But returned it, because it was so lacking. However, I just purchased it again, due to some of the newest improvements. I'll walk you through what I really like, and still don't like, about the Force.
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My Force is on the way and really looking forward to it arriving. Thanks for the great video.
Great video. Your review feels similar to the workflow I’d use to produce on this. Great review! Thank you for takin the time to share this.
Great video. I bought the force on preorder and have been holding onto it waiting for the updates...I’m annoyed about the price drop, but still believe this thing can be amazing. Hope we get there eventually!
Great video. I am considering getting the Force.I hope Akai sees this, most of the things you mentioned would be trivial to fix.
Yes - my thoughts as well. Which is why I bought it again. However, it seemed like Akai wasn't really interested in acknowledging/fixing things like that in the beginning. Guess they were, but were just really bad at communicating that they cared.
This is a good video. Thank you. You have some good points and I learned a few things.
I am a long time Logic Pro X user so the Ableton workflow is foreign to me. I bought the Force primarily due to the fact that it was standalone and Ableton was not required, but also so that I would get some of the benefits of a clip based workflow that I could integrate with my Logic Pro X studio.
I am still learning the device, but because of my writing method I am waiting for the release of the arranger to really sink my time into the instrument. Don’t want to spend time relearning a major workflow change. Your video pointed out a few things that I felt was not intuitive to figure out and now I know why.
I think the Force is an awesome musical tool that is a big paradigm shift for traditional workflows (i.e. Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Cubase, etc.), but I think it will be a solid compliment to my studio.
Thank you again 🙏.
I wanna start by saying thank you for all the force videos. I've watched just about every one of your videos on it. I am an ableton user, whose laptop has bit the dust (with age) and instead of paying double the price of a force for a new, quality laptop, I thought this standalone device could sort of be the best of other worlds for me. I have used the (akai) force for a couple months now. Made a fair share of tracks with it. I even ignored all the comments I read about frustrating parts of the force. As I rarely agree with comment section opinions. I want to love my force, I have tried so hard to love it. But I find myself more frustrated and, more importantly, uninspired with the force due to its lack of capabilities or funky way of work flow, or inconvenient work around just to "get by". I think today I have made my decision to return (if Sweetwater let's me) or sell it and just put that to a new laptop. It is with great remorse but I seem to be only fooling myself trying to believe I am satisfied with it. It's a real shame, but.....such is life I guess.
I hear ya. I would NOT like this as a DAW if it were the only thing I used. I just like it to sketch ideas and then put those in Ableton to finish. And akai does not design as well as Ableton does. Although they are similar. The fact that Ableton made the second push on their own, instead of partnering with akai should've been a good harbinger of that. Bummer that it's not working for you. But thanks for the positive feedback about the series.
Great overview here. Funny that you bought the Force, returned it, and repurchased it. I purchased it, used it, and returned it, but haven't repurchased it yet. I'm curious what support Akai offers throughout the rest of the year. I hope that the Live control is enhanced where you can control Ableton and still use the pads for recording new parts, rather than having to pick one or the other. Disk streaming (with that easy SSD integration) and arranger mode will be big. If done properly, I'll repurchase so I'll be keeping an eye out for announcements. :)
Any chance you could compare the bad points to what we have now in 3.05? Thanks, love your stuff!
Great point! I'll have to redo these now considering the update.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy yes please!
Yes, please.
For those that don’t know, you can adjust pad sensitivity on both push 2 and Force. For what it’s worth I prefer the pads and feel of push 2 better. Thanks for the video. 🙏
Thanks for the comment. Pad feel is definitely a personal preference. And I'm referring more to the pad feel - and how that translates into sensitivity. I feel like the Push 2 is more "plastic" like, and the sensitivity had a very steep curve to it. So I found myself triggering pads I didn't want to, from my fingers touching them. With the Force (and the Push 1), I feel like I don't get those extra "unwanted" notes from incidental contact. But if you feel like the Push 2 works better for you, more power to you!
Solid review
Great comparison! It would be really helpful if you could just note what firmware version you are running since AKAI comes with updates fairly often, that way it would be easier to look if some of the issues have been adressed. Again, thanks for the awesome videos!
Good point: it's 3.0.4
Great video l would love see some tip and tricks videos as you mentioned:)
Coming! Subscribe and you'll get the notification when they come out. Working on some of them right now.
Thanks for this - super helpful. Although I'm still undecided.... 🤷🏻♂️
I recently switched from the push 2 to the Akai force, basically because I really don't want to deal with an Audio Interface and I'm deadly afraid of a laptop crash while performing live. The main problem for my situation with the Force, is that you can't assign different BPM's to different scenes. I guess I will still use the force live (as a controller for Ableton and to route the laptop sound without interface), but to create with Ableton I will still use the Push 2. Great video by the way!
I feel you - that's exactly why I got the Force. To not use a laptop when performing live.
Super helpful walkthrough. Looks like the force does everything I need for less than upgrading my laptop.
Too many embarrassing dropout/freezing moments! So I’m moving toward a laptop-free live performance.
Totally hear ya. Check out my Force Fridays for tips on using it, if you pick it up.
Very cool summary.
Complete agreement!
It would be nice to define a min / max value for the self-defined Knopbs, such as Beatmaker 3 (IOS). Currently I have to be very careful not to overdo it.
Replace missing skills with software :)
But still a great box. I hope for many upgrades: D
Great insight and video. I think Akai actually launched the Force too early by mistake and this is why its in catch up mode and seems very reluctant to or slow coming forward and responding to people. I think they are most likely in overdrive now playing catch up on all the issues that should of been addressed as a first launched machine.
Couldn't agree more.
I've learned to not buy a product when it first comes out. It hurts at first
Totally agree.
Or not download a new macOSx when it first comes out
Thanks for the video, it is very helpful. I just ordered a Force, and now I'm getting a little worried because of exactly the things you point out on the bad side. These are features I also use a lot. I really hope Akai finds a solution !? If you haven't made Nick Trikakis aware of it, then I'll do it! And what about the swing function, is this easily accessible, and does the Force respond to external swing? Again, thanks for the video, it's super good !!!
I'm hoping they will too - and think it will just be a matter of time. They seem to be moving through the issues with each new update. What I don't understand, is why they don't just communicate that to people. Acknowledge that there are things that need improvement, and give us confidence they are working on it. Communication can go a long way in improving customer confidence.
Great video. I don't want to keep my laptop with me too when I play live, thats' why I think I'll go for the Akai Force but some points make me feel disappointed. Why it's not possible to export akai song arrangement to ableton (or why not logic) and vice versa? And what about my 7/8 tempo breaks? Are there better machines than Akai in your opinion? I mean the Push is just an expensive controller. Any hope that with future kernel upgrades things will eventually improve?
See my latest video....
Great video. On the Akai Force, is it possible to assign the A - B slider to pitch bending? If not, is there any way you can perform pitch-bending?
You could, through the Macros
i really hope Akai is watching this and taking note of the bad......ESPECIALLY THE NOTE REPEAT! WTF......other then that i love this machine.
It has note repeat!
akai should send this dude beta products to make finished n sensical!
to just give him money n do as he says. or hire him asap
Thank you for your insights. I also was an early adopter of the Force and the word cumbersome describes it well during those first months. I was constantly struggling with wondering why a common task was so hard to do, such as moving a track, as you show in your video. I lost an entire project due to the aggressive Undo feature. It felt very Beta. But I loved some aspects of it. I have considered revisiting the device, especially at its lower price point, but your video has me wanting to wait for more updates.
Totally with you on all of that. It's definitely feeling better. I got mine used, from Guitar Center for $800. And at that price point, it feels worth it. And I've seen some videos from Akai where they have "song mode" coming, and some new features that look great. Yeah, so maybe wait more if you want. But I do think it's shaping up to be a great product. Just was way under baked when it first came out.
Great vid. Any chance you can do a 2021 comparison after the great arranger update (late 2020) for the Force? Thx man!
Thinking about i!
Pink Buddha, I have the Machine Jam, how will the force be more of a help to my work flow and the difference. I also have the MPC Studio and Touch
It's a very different workflow than those. More like Ableton. You'd have to determine which you like better - which is really more of a matter of preference.
Hi Buddha. First, thx for your video. Is posible control drumrack, sampler, etc without mapping first, how does it push directly? Really thx!! :)
No...unfortunately
thank you my friend
mad helpful in my deep philosophical quest questioning adding la force to my audioecosystem... due to your vids i will keep making beats on my push n maschine ableton apc set up but i will then do my projects live or busking on the force not on ableton n sound card.... do you know if you can plug an apc40 into the force standalone for levels n clips n use the furze to play live parts? cher brabra
Currently - you can't control the Force via an APC40. Like use the slider and such. Which....is REALLY disappointing. But hopefully in the next update.
Recording audio, how often are you hitting low memory errors? It is my only concern. Thanks!
You know, I'm mostly using it for MIDI and not recording audio. So I haven't really pushed that element yet.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Ok, thanks. Trade a sub for a test? Haha!
Great vid and same here.... still not decided 🤔 but your video is helping 😉
It took me a while too - but it seems like Akai is really going to keep making improvements. I just wish they weren't so secretive about it, and closed off from actually communicating with people on the forums. I think customers will hang in there, and be patient for improvements if they feel heard.
💚Why would there be a lag in the time you press a pad and the time you hear it through the speakers? Maybe it has something to do with that timing correction?
Well.... there's always a time lag, of some sort. Just because the computer needs to process things. This is true for the standalone and Ableton. I was going to say this isn't true for acoustic instruments, but that's not true either. Sound waves take time to travel through air. Just it's really fast and basically you don't hear the lag until you're far away. All computers have lag, just depends upon if it's enough to notice.
Standalone devises are optimized for VERY minimal lag, because this is all they do. A computer could be streaming Netflix, running another program, etc while you make music. These things could affect latency. Also your interface connection. And what sounds you're playing. Or rather what vst you're using. Do you have effects on? All these affect latency/lag.
Ableton does have a low latency mode that helps a lot. I might be more sensitive than some, because I grew up learning to play an acoustic instrument. So I "feel" minor differences in latency. Even if I can barely hear it, it's just slightly confusing why the timing is off.
But this only matters if you are trying to play it like an instrument. If you just program beats and music....no problem!
Hope that explanation helps
@@PinkBuddhaAcademyIt's not normal for the Force to have a whole 16th note of lag, is it? Thanks for the feedback.🙂
Interesting. I'm surprised you would ditch the Push and get a Force but it gives you insight into the differences. Most stuff you dislike seems fixable. I wonder whether Akai will support Force in the way Ableton support Live! The only thing I think Force has over Push 2 is launching clips whilst in Note mode. Standalone is no big deal to me especially with low RAM. Pads are better dimensions on Push. But interesting proper comparison.
I wanted it mainly for the standalone, and to control my modular rig. And yes...the stuff seems fixable, which is why I took the plunge. And I saw how much it improved in a year. As it can still control Ableton, I feel I gained more than I lost. I made this review to share a perspective people might not hear, when trying to decide.
Does the force support third party plugins like the U-He Diva? Also can it sequence my 2 synths separately?
I don't think it does support them. And yes it can sequence another synth. Just setup midi tracks
So true about Akai. They just need to communicate to avoid the bad PR they keep getting. Just tell us it's acknowledged!
Right?? This is like customer service 101.
I keep wondering if Akai will ever add different time signatures. Great unit, but I need different time signatures for world and other music styles.
That's a really good point. You'd think it'd be a simple thing to do....
There’s a classic work around which can be done on even the earliest of sequencers and that is since you can adjust the clips individually you can break it down into steps. Think a tb 303 or a tr-8/s. Granted that’s limited in the context of polyrhythms but let’s be honest how many home producers outside of meshuggah or other underground tech-death and math metal musicians are doing that let alone doing it successfully? Guaranteed the majority of people arguing this are only doing so because it doesn’t have every single feature thus meaning their precious instrument is limited, even if it is something they don’t even have the grasp of. I still personally haven’t seen fans of any genre pouting due to lack of polyrhythms lol. If anything, they’re like “what the F is going on there?”!
@@ajmagana1131 Writing in 3/4 shouldn't require a workaround. Not on a "Standalone Music Production/DJ Performance System".
as long as triplets are possible its good enough for me
@@blazrodic are we still there?
does the Akai Force have something like the Emvoice plugin to "sing" vocals melodically?
Yes...now it does!
I'm interested in trying a Force but really need it to be able to sequence my DRM to fit my needs. Can it sequence a drum module appropriately yet or is this still an issue as mentioned?
Yes.....it has better MIDI implementation now with the new updates. But the note allocation is going to be a bit funky. It's doable, though.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy has the polyrhythms issue been sorted and the moving tracks and effects? And quantize?
Can you connect midi keyboard to it and play using its sounds just like you would push buttons?
Yup
@ Pink Buddah, Does the Force also control Ableton's sampler editing?
Haven't tried that - but I think so.
No it doesn't. It only controls abletons effects no midi input
Its interesting to see the pros and cons other people have. Is a very flexible device and lots of people use it differently, so different issues will effect people depending on which features they need. My biggest gripe is no multitimbral midi input. Its like they only designed it to be the central sequencer in your setup, and didn't think people may want to sequence it from other gear. There's no way to assign a midi input channel so if I have an external sequencer running it plays Force on whatever active channel is selected. As a workaround I have to create a dummy track as the active track. It just means I cant switch to another channel to adjust parameters which makes it pretty useless for performances.. Its such an oversight. Ironically where I come up against this most often is with using other Akai gear like the MPC Live. If I have a midi sequence running from the MPC to a hardware synth and also want to midi sync it to Force, I need to switch the active channel on Force to a dummy /empty track or else the midi notes are played into whichever channel is active on Force. All their current range have the same issue (MPC One, Live, X and Force). I just don't understand how they didn't think this would be a problem.
Great points!
I sent back my MPC live when I discovered that there is no multi channel midi. My MPC 2000xl had this 20 years ago
@@christianthompson1473 Agreed they were very late bringing this feature in. It shouldnt even be called a features, its just expected functionality. Thankfully MPC and Force both have great midi routing now. It just took too long to get here.
Pink Buddha, you must believe and use the Force - it will guide you. Do not fall to the dark side!
Haha 👌
what about midi learn or connecting external controllers to the force ? i think this is also to be considered to make it into your bad`s :) cool vid other than this
What we all really need is an Ableton Push Go: standalone, preferably portable and battery powered. But when you think of it that's actually extremely tough to pull off right, considering how many features are build into Ableton Live. Even a standalone Ableton device without the portability and battery power would be fighting for knobs, buttons and touchscreen estate to be assigned to.
So maybe they're better off at Ableton to crack the nut of iPadOS version first before committing to a standalone controller.
Omg...yes please. That's what I'm hoping for.
Does the MPC packs really expand the force for studio or live work? I
You're talking about the MPC expansions? They definitely provide a wide variety of sounds. Ableton certainly is a large ecosystem with a lot of sounds too.
I wonder if the Akai Force can work on the same project with Push 2 in Ableton Live. Would be cool, Akai for it's built in samples and plugins and Push 2 controlling Ableton's built in and third party plugins.
Not exactly sure what you mean here.....i.e. you're asking if both could control Ableton at the same time? Or both could be playing at the same time. I haven't tried having them both work as a controller, but in Ableton, you can definitely have multiple controllers assigned to different things at once. The Force can use Ableton Link (even wirelessly) to sync up with Ableton, so you could absolutely "play" the Force while running Ableton (and controlling Ableton with the Push).
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Thanks, loved your review. Really helped me with decisions on what to get. With Akai's constant updates and what it now does, I think I'll get one.
Hello Pink Buddha. I cant find any informations about it, can I programming drums pads in ableton as AKAI Force pads and play them on AKAI force?? (sorry for my English)
Do you mean - use the Force to play a drum rack in Ableton? Or make a drum rack in Ableton, and then export to the Force (to play standalone)?
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy yes, use the Force to play drum rack in Ableton. For example I can do it with my keyboard Arturia pads...
@@forest9307 sadly...not really. You can sort of do it by creating a midi track in the force and then going midi out into Ableton. But using the pads to play a drum rack in Ableton doesn't work in the Ableton integration. 👎👎
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy thank You so much! Probably it is possible with Ableton Push..
Akai-"open consistent communication"? I quit using their products maybe 12 years ago when their shitty "tech support" was being done via get satisfaction ,,,is that still the case ?
Haha...yup
You need to come and do an update vid to this now that arranger mode is a thing. What Akai lacked in communication, they made up for in delivery imo.
Great suggestion! I'll get on that.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Awesome, thank you. As it happens, I ended up ordering a Force last night, it should be here within a couple of days. As a husband, father of a young infant, and full time worker this is going to be an "end of the day when the kid is asleep" hobby for me and I'm really looking forward to it. I've watch a bunch of your vids in preparation for its arrival, and they have been very helpful in getting the hang of basic concepts and functions, so thanks for making them :D
What firmware version was installed during the making of this video?
The latest version - 3.0.4? Think that's the number for it.
For tight working with Live it has to be Push. No contest!
For sure. I'm hoping Ableton makes a standalone push one day...
I wonder in real time sequencing how long can your measure can be?
Meaning - how long can a clip be? The Force has limited ability to do different time signatures, but you can have a clip be hundreds of measures long.
i think 3.04 fixed the tempo thing. did they fix other (-) ?
The newer updates did really help improve the Force, and reduced the differences between the two. I'd have to watch this again to remember all those specific points. I have a newer video up comparing the Force and the Push, if you didn't see that.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I'll watch it. Gravitating towards the Maschine+, would love to hear your thoughts about this device.
Is it possible to use the smart scale within ableton similar to the push?
Yes. You can set the pads to be certain scales.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Ok cool, definitely going to purchase one now! thank you for the great video and the answer!
How do you use note mode when controlling ableton?
So the force is really geared toward a live performer vs someone who works in the studio environment.
That's where I see it shining (live). Because in a "studio" - it's just going to be so much easier to use a computer/screen to record/finish projects. You can do it on the Force, but it's like using a little tiny ipad.
But in a live setting, now you don't have a laptop. And to me, laptops just don't feel like an instrument.
I have not been able to use the Force as an Ableton controller because Akai has not updated the network driver for MacOS Big Sur. Been waiting almost a year. Also I’ve reported to them some things that don’t seem to be working properly such as bends on CV tracks and note off messages sent out midi when track is set to midi monitor off and track is armed. They always say they will look into it and get back with me. They never follow through. All that I’m ever expecting is for them to say yes we agree or disagree that’s not working, we know about it and it may be fixed in the future. But all that I’m ever left with is akai doesn’t know or care.
Unfortunately, they are rather aloof
The new update. Does that now give you full control of ableton. If so. I’m sold?
It does - but it's not the streamlined experience of using the Push. But yes, it does provide the control. I'd give it a solid B, if not B+.
Pink Buddha so in your opinion overall the force is now ahead of the push. Thanks for the excellent video and feedback.
mmm....I wouldn't say that. The Push is still superior, but it's not entirely a fair comparison. The Push is just a controller for Ableton. Whereas, the Force is like having both in the same box. I chose the Force, primarily, in that you can you use it aside from a computer - like in a live performance situation, instead of having a laptop.
Pink Buddha ok. I ordered the push then. Simply cause my usage will be with the software. Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.
Could force use sustain pedal? Where to connect?
Not exactly - you'd have to setup a MIDI, or USB controller, to do that. But doesn't have a "traditional" sustain pedal. A workaround would be to hook up a midi keyboard to the Force, and then use the sustain pedal on the midi keyboard. That would send the sustain pedal cc message.
Thanks for the Video. I took the opposite route, sold my Force and kept my Push2. I was an early adopter, and many frustrations, as you said. Inititaly I though with Force that I can replace my Push2 and as a bonus I will have that great stand alone mode + the touchscreen ..... It turns out after many months waiting, Ableton Live support came and is very very limited ( unlike you said, not deep at all), So you can only launch clips, adjust volumes, and have a limited control on devices, with no editing possibilities of samples or no midi clips and worse ... no ability to use the pads to play instruments/VIs in Ableton Live (as you can do with push simply). For that, I used some work arounds, creating midi clips in the Force standalone mode and send them to Ableton, it's possible but cumbersome.... you can use the step sequencer, but the routing and configuration (root notes, scales) are not persistant when you save your project. So each time you load the project you have to redo all the settings (Root note, Scale, mode...).... too much hustle.... So I decided to keep it simple, for Ableton Live I use push 2 for what it is, perhaps in few months/years will get again a Force ( or Force 2 ) when it will be more mature, with more updates. my 2 cents
Great thoughts. Totally agree with you. What I'm *REALLY* hoping happens is that Ableton creates a standalone Push!
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy THIS IS WHAT I'M HOPING FOR AS WELL. I'M SURE IT WILL BE AMAZING IF THEY DO.
Could someone kindly reply back with an answer, as to, how do people make $$$ with this type of product? I’m really interested in it but learning it takes a lot of time and I’d love to know how do people find work as a producer. ...Movies, games, commercials, etc???
That is not a quick, or easy answer. It's possible, but it is NOT easy. Lots of competition. Better to start producing for the love of it, and then hopefully make money at some point.
4:00 I have played guitar all my life and I have never understood why people draw the fretboard upside down and backwards from how it would look if you were watching some one else play the instrument.
Hmm....yeah, I could see that being confusing. I don’t really use that view.
17:54 Seems like the Push has aftertouch and the Force doesn't.
Force does...but it's sort of weird acting
I am beginner. When I click record a clip. He doesn't start recording. It disarms me. Help
Check that your track is armed to record
Yes it is. After loading the somthing into a clip, I have to empty play on and stop to record it. I can't record Wright away like load somthing and Press edit clip then rec.
Huh...wonder if it's a glitch with your force. Have you tried the community forum?
Nope
I like your neutral style -if that makes sense- It's tough to get important info when you also have to deal with personalities.. anyway.. I'm finding it very hard so far to make an original.. anything.. on the force. like its too geared to make the "music" that is already in there. very frustrating. i feel like you have to reverse engineer the whole thing just to start from scratch. I just want to put a leash on it and take it for a calm walk but it's like trying to do that with a late 90's mountain goat on extacy . I also have no clue at all what the possible difference is between 600 styles of house music.
lol....late 90's mountain goal on extacy.
Maybe I'll make a video with different workflow examples. I definitely don't think you have to just make house music on the Force.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy thanks for the reply.. I bet you would get a lot of views on a video about maybe guitar music or non dance music with the force.. something like that.
Try using manual focus on your overhead potato :P
?? Lol....the potatoe is my head?
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy What he is trying to say is to set the overhead camera to manual focus so the shot can stay is focus. He’s calling the camera a potato as that is typically a meme used to refer to what one perceives as low or outdated tech.
Everybody Loves Raymond
Ha
Use the Force Luke! Sorry, I'm sure that's been done to death :-p
Ha!
too many fucking ads, unsub
Sorry...? I don't control that, btw. But I get it's annoying. It does help me though to support making content. Although, it's not much.