Sharpton / Hitchens Debate - The Persistence of Religion
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2007
- Complete video at: fora.tv/2007/05/07/Al_Sharpton...
Author Christopher Hitchens debates the Reverend Al Sharpton on the persistence of religious belief in a world of unprecedented scientific and technological advancement.
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A Debate: God Is Not Great with Al Sharpton and Christopher Hitchens.
Taking on possibly the greatest issue of our time - the malignant force of religion in the world - Christopher Hitchens makes the ultimate case against religion through a close and learned reading of the major religious texts, citing numerous historical instances in which sexual repression and outrageous acts of violence have been committed in the name of God. He argues for a more secular life based on science and reason, in which hell is replaced by the Hubble telescope's awesome view of the universe, and Moses and the burning bush give way to the beauty and symmetry of the double helix. -- NYPL
Christopher Hitchens is an author, journalist and literary critic. Now living in Washington, D.C., he has been a columnist at Vanity Fair, The Nation and Slate; additionally, he is an occasional contributor to many other publications.
Al Sharpton Jr. is a Pentecostal minister, a political activist, civil rights activist and film actor. In recent years, Sharpton has also become a perennial candidate in his quest for the Democratic Party's nomination for President of the United States. Author of "Go and Tell Pharaoh: The Autobiography of the Reverend Al Sharpton."
There is no "belief" required for evolution, you either understand it or choose to ignorantly ignore it.
"why did the best man I know get cancer of the throat"
Did anyone else notice that?
Thank you for posting this, ForaTv.
Thank you for what you do, Christopher Hitchens.
thanks! you're approval means so much
Love it Kitepilot! I was in fact very happy of how much knowledge Hitchens did have on multiple religions and his experiences to bring him to the conlusions that he stands for today. For every bible pushed in my face, I now push Hitchens book back in yours!
Thanks for putting this on here Nice posts too
Well done Mr. Hitchens. Thanks Sir.
Very nicely put! I like this answer!
Absolutely right! I wish more people would see it this way.
that is awesome! At times I wondered if I was alone with my feelings of being a self proclaimed antitheist, and ive learned i am not. I have found Hitchens book to be the blueprints to my feelings on the matter of religion and creation.
you're right, I went off on a tangent.
What do you think is the right plan of action to take regarding the situation in the middle east?
"I don't love our enemies" - Christopher Hitchens= Priceless lol
Absolutely right, I wish more would see it this way - the world would be a much better place!
I've written 6 for your information. I've been invited to 3 global debates, all three of which I turned down because the persons who requested my attendance had no idea what they were talking about.
I sincerely suggest that you take a look at both your mental and spiritual wellbeing, for the good of both you and the world.
Agreed! I love the quote of turning a enemy into a friend. Well how is that possible, with love? By giving him money? By stop being successful? By stop caring about my friends and family? By going somewhere and hiding? How? Well the bottom line is that a enemy is a person who is jealous of you. I say forget the enemy, because he is still going to hate you in the end. He still has a mind, that is filled with history, and so do you. Only your mind is filled with happiness, and not failure.
I moved to the MidWest heartland recently .... and I feel the same way...
@Area51UFOGynaecology norge danmark sverige eller finland ?
How do you go about eradicating fanatic beliefs?
Why can't we just ACCEPT that we don't know certain things (yet).
"Thus I came...to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true....Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience...an attitude which has never left me."
~~Albert Einstein
Okay, Tom. Thanks for speaking out, for responding. You seem to care about this situation.
I'm not sure you're continuing with any of the discussions I've been involved with. I agree, that ungrounded basis for teaching personal responsibility needs to go.
Good response :) Agreed.
Because its basic debate rule one doesn't lead to the other. I used it as an analogy that by no means solicits the idea proving the analogy is plausible doesn't mean the topic is plausible there is no causal link between those two.
I watched the whoooole 1 1/2 hour debate and was initially thinking to myself, of all the people to debate Mr. Hutchens (a brilliant man) on God, why Al Sharpton? I figured there were more seasoned religious intellectuals. But surprisingly Al held his own and I was impressed with his rebuttals.
That's awesome. But what does that have to do with what we are talking about. Or are you just attempting to list miscellaneous info?
No, of course, thats the whole point that i meant,
some belief systems are better for certain purposes.
like you have to accept, i wouldn't say believe, but accept the axioms and metaphysical postulates of mathematics, or a teacher that you're coming to learn from - that teaches science or philosophy and so on, but you do it from intuition, and not merely reason. then its not believing per-se, but something more creative which invovles intuition-perception .
@Kan2209
Nope, I even copy pasted it: "Why haven't I seen any?" I can't see any comment of you using the phrase "Come to think of it."
And in the same comment that you say you haven't been looking at all, your last sentence is, again copy pasted, "Show me to one."
Your words are against you at this point.
oh yes, I forgot... love is very important, hugs and lots of support, too
"support such action"
I love hitch. However, I'm trying to figure out why he motions towards his head at 7:28-ish when referring to the adrenaline [sic] glands.
Coreygames- I can't let this grammar slip go uncorrected either. And since this conversation devolved into silliness, you still appear to be mistaken. The correct word is indeed "who."
Some example sentences.
Who is going with us? ('Who' is the subject, so you wouldn't say, "Whom is going with us?")
With whom are you speaking? ('Whom' is the object of this sentence, not the subject.)
to be continued...
Iphone, Ipod, PS3, Tv, CAr ... where are they came from
However, one's view on "dis-ease" does have a commonality with one's view on religions, in terms of how to deal with it...
screenflicker,
Thank you..It always feels good when someone else agrees.
'why are those children being killed? it's because someone who believed in god thought they had it coming'... wow that's awesome! what a statement.
Then why did you ask me, why do I believe in a God that kills people for simply not believing in him? Which one is it?
which one is that?
He gave up himself. He gave up his glory. He gave up his Holyness to be with sinners and die a sinner's death. He put himself down to our level. That requires great humbleness, compassion, love, and grace. There is no love greater than laying your life down for someone. We see him now crowned with glory and honor because of the death he suffered.
Well said, Hitchens nailed it at the end!
Hitch says we're on a "cooling" planet. Which is it? Warming or cooling?
You are exactly right.
Please explain to me what Hate I was taught, and what in this world that I hate? And so I have to be all knowing and all powerful to make observations? Were Galileo, Darwin, Da Vinci, etc all powerful and all knowing just for simply making observations? I think not.
You're right, I didn't make myself clear. It's not the "environment," I was actually referring to the body. Your body clears cancer cells all the time. I worked with a man whose specialty was cancer patients, and he's seen it reverse too many times to deny it. They took ALL measures- laugh therapy, an alkaline living foods cleansing diet, deep breathing, remove all stress, apply wheatgrass pulses, etc. We treat our bodies really horribly in the U.S.
Why is it an oversimplification?
Although I disagree with his points on the war his points on religion (the topic really being debated) are spot on.
oh who cares about that, it wasn't a debate directly for Sharpton, it was a community debate and as such he was addressing the community and Sharpton
Ummm... I don't believe in a god and nothing has appeared yet. What am I doing wrong?
I would have loved to see Terrance Mckenna debate Hitchens.
Yes, that's more or less the point I'm trying to make. That social change often happens slower to whole societies than the people in charge of those societies would like, usually because old habit die hard. Political savvy often gets around this by clothing the new in the garb of the old. This is less effective in a modern, mass-mediaised (?) world, but it sure as hell worked for Christianity, for example by incorporating it's 2 main religious festivals into important pagan festivals.
Hear, hear... well said.
"His enemies should do to him what he wants to do to them!! "
They are trying to. That's his point.
How can you say that Jesus is not different, if the others think that He is not holy or Divine, but Christians think that he is both Holy and Divine?
In fact, we had a lesson dedicated to religion on philosophy class the other day. We all ended up laughing it up over creationism in particular, the teacher included :>
What the hell is that guy with that glasses doing at the bottom of the screen when the guy is asking his question at the start of the video, put it to full screen and watch, I don't mean to sound crude but it looks as though he's playing with himself and trying to get his face in the camera view at the same time.
If people thought that this is the only life we have there would be a lot less wars and a whole lot more respect for the lives of others.
" is like creating a speed limit on a non existing freeway before the automobile was invented"
How so?
Yes, I agree.
@RickZiis He gets tired and rests on Sundays. Infallible? What kind of super god gets fatigued?
I never said I was taking Egyptian studies. I said like studying it, you know like on my own time? A noobie? No I'm not a noobie, I just accept things because someone said that their are similarities between different religions. Even though every Religion has similarities. But please can I get a source to these claims of yours?
@ppd8472 The "wave of reason" has yet to make the same impact in the US as it has here in Scandinavia. We are the most atheistic people in the world right now, with only about 10% of the populace(mostly immigrants)here identifying themselves with a religion.
Strange that someone who has even opened a book about biology can even for a moment think that anything else can be more truthfull.
I believe that in our lifetimes we will see enormous enlightenment spreading across the continents. Cheers!
Should knowledge replace love?
of what ??
...continued...
"Them who know the truth" [should actually be "they who know the truth, incidentally.] Here, "who" is the subject. The "who" are the ones doing something, "knowing" to be specific.
From here, your example (the he/she argument), would also be "reach he" since you would say "it will reach he who knows the truth." Think of the phrase "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." Same rule applies.
Thanks
Why follow a particular version, everyone should think for themselves and if that leads to a belief in transcendancy after looking at all the evidence so be it.
What points? Where are not argueing over anything..Except about love and hate.
Its astonishing that the religious never do think in such a way. God is given all the credit for the good in the world but never held accountable for the bad.
Why would I create another denomination when I have no, and desire no denomination?
How did he "give up his glory"? Because he lowered himself to be like a human for a few years (out of an eternity)? Are you implying that somehow the glory of an omniscient and omnipotent deity can be tarnished irreparably simply because he brought himself "down to are level" TEMPORARILY? For the third and final time: Where is the sacrifice?
Sure you are.
well said friend
to Zackerybob:
at least Hitchens uses the art of words to diplomatically assert his opinion. whereas sharpton, in a different clip of this debate, actually demanded from hitchens to his eyes as an assertion for subordination. not to mention his sarcasm
there'll be rudeness on both sides of any debate so im not saying hitchens is not rude, but really sharpton can attempt lessen his rhetoric and ad hominemisms
@1milewski Thank you:)
@BigG99 Truth and wisdom based on...faith?
Because one is secure.
i like how he totally avoids the point.
he begins by attacking the government for hiring 'chaplains', getting the audience on his side, totally avoiding the question of how religion affects people's lives and why it is growing.
i find his whole 'arguing style' of patronism and avoiding the point insulting, to the point where he plays to the audience and makes a farce of the whole debate.
@miket1m That merely sees something, and gives it a name...."spring". There is no mention of what it is, how it works, or whether it is indeed "hydrothermal" ! Anyway, at least you tried. Now try answering the contradiction question.
Advancing in technology is the same as growing in knowledge.
The definition of all religions when understood from the outside with thorough examination and without any assumptions are the practices to attain wisdom, which is knowledge worth knowing. Unfortunately most people, ~ 99%, do not have the capacity to see most things clearly and have falsely or irrationally made the wrong conclusions. It is the irrationality or falseness in their minds that is the true reason for abhorrent situations mankind finds himself in.
@NielasHellsing
AND WHAT RERIGION TEATCH YOU??????????????.
You claimed that I believe in a God that kills people for not believing in Him. And then you changed your mind, and said that it was not people's God who committed such a crime, but God's followers. Which one is it?
@gobuddyboy You have to remember, that works for both sides of the case, how can religion PROVE that gods exist?
@NielasHellsing exsacly so many religious people say that athiesm is a religion which is rediculous
What is it that I say it is so? I never said any other arguements are wrong. And you don't have to convert. This is a free world. Believe what you will, it's your right. But don't get upset when someone else makes observations that have obvious truth in it.
Umm sir I know what the OT testament is for. That wasn't my statement. I was saying that the thing that seperates Christians and jews was the Old and New Testaments. That's it.
watch your tone!
Why repent? As you say, God loves me. Love is unconditional. He should save me whether I believe in him or not.
@Kan2209
Oh, no worries, I am an atheist as well.
Im showing how the person who first responded to you wasnt being nearly as abrasive as you think.
You asked "Why havent I seen any?" supposedly looking for an answer. How would anyone know it was directed to yourself? When given an admittedly derisive answer, you come back aggresively.
"Show me to one," again displays the same problem. This yields the same result, with an answer and backlash.
I never thought you said they dont exist...
not quite sure of your point here. Yes, they knew rain makes flowers grow. how is that relevant. You have still not even attempted an answer to my question which calls into question the point of the 10 commandments.
@ErickLazcon4 How dare you mention bill maher on the science squad and not the great Richard Dawkins.
Elequently put.
people think hitchens has anger in him, but its just some one who is passionate, and has the guts to say something. for too long, non believes have shut up, and it has become expected of them.
Look. I'm not saying that a council wasn't commisioned and named the three parts of God the trinity. But as the verse I gave you suggest that, that is what Jesus wanted. If people read the bible then they would see that. For someone who has claimed to read the bible, why did you not see this verse?
@tybrady64 It depends on which region of the world you are talking about.
they are all false, some just more ridiculous than others.
Oh ok..So the Council of Nicaea made religious leaders start teaching about the trinity. By that statement you are implying that Jesus didn't command that his followers baptize people in the Name of God the father,the son, and the holy spirit. And infact in Matthew 28:19 Jesus did say this. And in John 10:30, Jesus said that him and God are one. How do you explain this?
You are not talking to the same person who was posting before. Regardless, you have dodged the fundamental point that I was making. Do you wish to rebut or are you going to continue running in circles with your hand's over your ears.
Then we are all done for !
Just a troll or do u care to say why?