How to install piston rings and not break them. Oil ring explanation POV installation!
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2016
- How to install piston rings. Do you struggle with piston ring installation? Fear of breaking the rings? Fear no more. Here are proven methods for "how to" install piston rings easily and BONUS: Oil ring close up and theory.
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You may enjoy this video Shane did on the 3 piece oil ring too. czcams.com/video/PyUjvaQa2h0/video.html
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This is very informative. Thank you for the information, well done!
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I do not consider myself a better mechanic than anyone,but i enjoy watching videos like this that make perfect sense to me,and i would like to encourage other mechanics to pay attention to detail to these things,i really appreciatte videos showing real proffesionals showing us how things are done properly,thanks.i'm very pleased to have watched this video.i will keep it as a reference of a real expert
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This is by far the most detailed and well explained video I've seen. Im getting ready to strip down and re build my 2007 VW transporter 2.5 diesel engine. This video has given me miles of insight on refitting or replacing the rings.
My problem is on the crankshaft and have to replace it and bearings but I'll be checking the rings also. Thank you so much 👍
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Great informative video with excellent explanations. Thank you!
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Rebuild my first engine watching your vids.I still rewatch from time to time to recoop
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Thank you this series it was very helpful in doing my cr50f to 88 kit . Put it all back together and first kick, I couldn't believe it it fired right up and the torque difference was unexpectedly a good thing! Your detailed tear down was a big help.
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Great video. Another thing to remember about the oil rings is to get the correct size. I made that mistake on my shovel rebuild. The machine shop bored 20 over and I bought the pistons to match. The rings that came with the pistons were not the moly compression rings so I bought a new set of rings. The oil expander ring was not the right size (narrower than the width of the piston oil slot). I put the rails on like your suppose to. The bike ran great at first but I was soon fouling my plugs consistently. Couldn’t figure out was was going on. I thought my valve seals were the culprit. I finally disassemble the engine and realize what a dumb ass mistake I had made. The rails were climbing on top of the lips of the expander and causing the fouling.
Hi Scruffy. TY! You may enjoy this video Shane did on the 3 piece oil ring too. czcams.com/video/PyUjvaQa2h0/video.html
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Thanks for the info, a big help right now.
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Wow, thanks for posting such an informative video. It helped me out big time! :-)
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nice video, not only learn how to set it up, but good service can be provided. good luck and thank you the author..
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Great vid well explained. thanks for the tips
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Hey man thanks a ton. Starting a project and haven't done one in about 15 years. Your video is focused,clear and very understandable with great info that came back to me. Question if you could or know of hand, got another project going for my kid on one of those 2002 Ktm 50 Sx senior liquid cool. Was about to instal a Wiseco piston/top end kit and noticed the Rod has some play. Not up and down but side to side (never touches crank but kinda close). I know there's supposed to be some play but how much is in the safe zone? No manual came with it and no luck finding it. Thanks a ton man and subscribed.
Finally a proper zoomed in video. Thanks mate
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Waooooo.u are a good teacher.
Wish u were my teacher
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I Just love thorough explanations regardless how long it makes the video
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The method shown will work. However, it is also clumsy, time consuming and will scratch the piston ring lands or the piston skirt. Using a screwdriver or whatever to recover an OCR rail from the top or second groove is an absolute no-no. The girls on the assembly lines at the piston plant I worked at would flick a three piece ring on a piston in less than 20 seconds. No marks on the piston, all gaps aligned. The trick is simple. Install the expander. Push one end of a rail into position say above the top of the expander, twist it like a band saw blade and lay it into the groove. Do likewise with the bottom one. No over expansion whatsoever and they are designed to be installed in this manner.
Very helpful video, thank you
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Great vid indeed. The documentation of my original harley pistons shows the spacer ring positioned the other way around than shown in this video. Luckily I still had my old pistons for reference, and they also are positioned the same way as shown here. -1 for harley documentation I guess.
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thank you for the video
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I'm about to fit a new set of rings and admit I hadn't spotted the step in the oil scraper ring before now, thanks for highlighting this. Some my find a useful tip for fitting rings is to carve up some old feeler guages and use the 6 - 8 thou blades as vertical shields around the piston. This will help you walk the rings around without them dropping in the wrong grooves.
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Very informative, nice video
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Wow, I've been at this oil ring assembly for 2 hours with no success but after 2 mins I got it on the first try. Awesome vid!
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@@How2Wrench just did, thanks and keep up the good work!
Oh wow, I'm putting a 1 mm oversize Namura piston in a Suzuki LT230S, hell of a fight w/ oil control ring, now I know what's going on; compression rings had;end gap of .006", I filed them to just over .014", carefully deburred ends, but oil ring is not playing nice w/ cylinder, I will attack it again tomorrow, & complete & defeat the dilemma.thanks for this vid
You are a smart man.
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Its really informative thanx
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Wow, learn something every day! Just ruined a piston because of this. :(
Bummer, thanks for checking us out.
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Shane, doing a 98" big bore. S&s and have to grind piston rings for end gap. Nerve racking, no one has a piston ring grinder. So i made my own.
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It's called a file
Shane, I wish you had a USB Port on the back of your head, so I could download all the knowledge stored on your brain, lol. I love these videos, I always learn something new.
+3544S Thank you and please share!
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Great video.
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Actually I just wanna say thank you for your useful video ❤🙏
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Do you have any video about gap ring piston or torque wrench settings on silender head?
hello buddy, can you tell me please which clearance is recommended ?
I'm in the process of adjusting the cylinders and pistons on my 74" shovelhead and I'm not sure
about the pistons clearance.
which at alu factory and which at forged pistons.
I thank you in advance for the tips.
greetings mike
Great video ! well done !! I would appreciate if you can make a video on how to do it on AUDI A3 1.6 as this is my car and suffering from oil burning issues.
Thanks for commenting and adding value to our community! We don't currently have an Audi in our fleet. We do have many videos teaching skill sets that would apply or we can work with you one on one.
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you could be doing a lawn mower engine or a big rig engine and it will be the same thing.take them off and put them on in reverse order,take pictures and pay attention
indeedly superb A+
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Excellent Video as always..my question is, is there anyway to test you piston rings after honing your cylinders walls. I did a leak-down test on a few of my cylinders and found that a few of them were low 20 percent leakage. the leak down showed that the air was coming from the crankcase. so i took them out and hone out all the cylinder that were low. the pistons and rings are now back in which brings me back to my question above. thanks for your feedback
Absolutely. The are multiple measurements and visual inspections. I can personally walk you through it.
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Great detailed video that was very helpful, but noticed one error at 11:59 others may have mentioned below, the top and bottom rails (and your marks) are backwards from the manual shown. Probably doesn't matter though.
And I have a question. I'm installing new Wiseco 0.01" overbore 103 pistons on my 2008 HD Electra Glide Classic. Contrary to what you show, I've seen a possibly older manual in a FixMyHog video, that puts the #5 top compr ring by the intake and the #4 2nd compr ring at the exhaust, with position 4 not being used and position 1 only being used for the oil separator ring (vs by 1 AND 5). Is your method the most recent and do you recognize the method FMH is using? The bike they were working on may have been an 88 ci going to a 96 ci but that doesn't necessarily mean it was an excessively old video as they could have done that this year. But my dealer's manual is from 2011 and it agrees with your method and looks like your opened manual page.
The Clymer manual I have does something different again though I'm not following that as it's too vague and actually made me lose faith in Clymer (perhaps unfairly as it may not matter as much as Harley says). They have the top compression ring facing the intake or exhaust - they don't specify but I'll call it the intake - the 2nd compression ring facing to one side I'll call the left, the lower rail facing what I'll call the exhaust, the top rail facing the right, and oil separator ring gap not even distinguished where it goes.....the gist is to keep them all separated but strange no mention of the separator ring. Also disturbing is no mention of any of the oil ring assembly details/concerns you mention which is why your vid is so important.
FINALLY, Wiseco's directions are totally nonsensical as they have the piston pin axis going front to back vs across. Maybe it's a generic drawing and other engine types like inline 4's or v-4's or boxers etc. do so. They don't mention intake or exhaust but say the top ring gap is at the rear, 2nd to the front, and top/lower rails and separator ring gaps about 60 deg apart away from intake/exhaust if you know what I mean. Again doing what amounts to the same thing. Any idea why so many different methods and does it really matter? Does Harley's manual mention the details you do with the oil rings like the overlap (Wiseco does, Clymer doesn't) and 'stacking the sandwich' properly? Regardless I'm heeding your advice obviously.
Another contradiction is Wiseco has a sheet saying twin cams are 0.04" ring gap per inch of bore so about 0.0155" for my bore. They say 0.015" for both top and bottom compr ring. But their generic directions say you can get top ring flutter if you don't have a larger gap on the 2nd compr ring than the top. I'm going by their TC HD engine specific directions as thankfully it's a lot simpler than filing down the 2nd ring to be larger. Dealer says it doesn't matter too and they say about 0.015" is fine. But Harley manual says top and 2nd also have different wear allowances and the min is more on 2nd than on the top. So they must agree with this top ring flutter idea but then Wiseco and my dealer do not. Confusing! Is it worth worrying about and when setting new rings do you in fact file the 2nd one down a bit? BTW the Wiseco piston kit came out to 0.015" in my bores.
Thanks in advance (forgot to mention Wiseco generic directions say 0.04" gap/inch is for ATV/PWC/snowmobiles/dirtbikes and 0.05" for most street bikes......yet the TC HD specific directions imply 0.04" as it comes to 0.015" top and bottom).
I'd be glad to help Bob.
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cross hatch patterns make the rings seat plus the gap moves around, they dont rotate but they do move around
Rotate but don't move around? Can you clarify please?
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Do you please guide me about receprocating air compressor book
I have 2002 sportster 883 is the ring gap layout will be the same on my bike?
Awesome explanation. Thanks!
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Owesom
That makes sense
thanxx
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What happens when you grade the rings?...before you put the pistons in The cylinders?
....hi man my rings on my Polo need to be changed but now the a WV are saying in order to do it properly and have no future issues i have to change cam belt, hip bearing, cam shaft, rear main seal and so on, and so on. Basically engine overhaul by the looks of things, because, and i quote "once you open the engine you just gotta replace everything". Is VW try to drain my pocket or is this valid.
Ever try 3 thin sections of old feeler guage to put the rings on, rings slide over without any bending and minimal stretching
Nice. I have not but will try it out. Thanks for commenting and adding value to our community!
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Thank you, I am installing a S&S 1250 kit on Sportster this weekend, I will try that method and comment after..
Hey bud am try to do a 2006 Honda Forman 500 if I take the piston out do I have to set a time on it again
I like your education ooo my dear
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it's just perfect , i think we can do that , the ring instalation for car also?
Absolutely...Much of motorcycle technology came from advances in auto design.
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hello, I am putting together a briggs&stratton 21B807 engine and I have a problem because there is an arrow on the piston. How to point it up towards the magnet wheel??
at 13:09 in the video, you talk about the expander facing up on the gaps. If my piston has a solid rail and the piston has oil holes drilled in does that mean I can install that expander up or down? I mistakenly installed the expander facing down and I am wondering if I need to disassemble it.
What is the difference between the sides of the rings and if you were to install one upside down? I have only gotten inside small engines in which the rings have a preset gap which makes that practically fool proof. Wonder why Husqvarna, Stihl, Echo, and so on have something that vehicles don't there. Can't say but I would expect car and motorcycle's heads be more advanced if that piece matters even. Im only a hobbist and find the subtle differences between different types of engines interesting. Thanks for the great video
Everyone has his own way of installing rings in the piston
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Great eye by channel sub @Zerk Ziegler
At 11:58, T and B are flipped....👍
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I'm just think that each one teacher have your book.
Best regards
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good viedeo
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Thank You for such interesting and enlightening lessons. I have a doubt going round my head from long time ago = Do rings rotate while engine is running? Do they retain their relative position after, lets say, 40k miles? Thank You for your kind answer....... and keep on wrenching!!
Thank you. I struggle "seeing" the rings rotating but was told years ago they do. I think so fresh research would be a good idea. I have a theory but sure would be great to know. The engines I build don't come back in s short time (good thing) to check.
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Dear Fernando, I doubt you will read this as you asked your question over a year ago. However this might help others. Rings do rotate and often faster than most people might realise. The driving force is the cross-hatch pattern on the cylinder bore after honing. Obviously it should be symmetrical but we do not live in a perfect world and it will be skewed one way or the other. Add to this the different lubrication conditions and temperatures between the top, second and oil control rings and you can see that they will all rotate at different rates. Hence the fallacy of setting gaps at 120 degrees on installation. Note the position of ring gaps on pistons you remove from an engine. You will find they are all over the shop.
As a final comment, why do manufacturers of two stroke engines (where the inlet ports are in the cylinder bore walls) find it necessary to put a peg in the piston ring groove at the gap location? The answer is simple. So the rings cannot rotate and the free ends pass over the ports causing breakage.
Rings do rotate. In a good engine it should be a slow process. In a bad engine it can be very quick causing nasty side wear.
I have another seemingly strange situation with piston pins I'm going through right now. My stock 103 (SE kit on my 96) piston pins were hard to get out and needed a punch. The Wiseco's slide in smooth into their bores....is it normal that HD pistons/pins are that tight vs Wiseco? The machine shop is top notch and sent me a matching set of VT2791 Wiseco pistons (replaces VT2763), rings and piston pins with circlips. So I doubt they sent me the wrong pin. I could re-use my HD pins in my Wiseco's I suppose but would rather not.
Which leads me to another question (who knew it was this complicated?). The Wiseco circlips seem very hard to spin when in the groove. They get installed with the opening pointing near the pry recess pointing down and I understand the gap must point up. I very nearly gave up for fear of dropping/scratching the piston or damaging the rings I'd just so carefully installed. I barely got it to move a millimetre. It must have been an hour of fighting. I finally resorted to a hammer and screwdriver but that shouldn't be necessary. One finally move a bit at a time with some taps to the end of the screw driver while the other one only by getting at a weird angle and hitting the side of the screw driver blade. I finally got both pointing upwards and glad I did as I don't want to lose a circlip and have the pin come out (both terrible situations). But the stock ones must be a lot easier to spin i.e. are not as stiff/tight. Ironically the Harley piston pins are super tight requiring a punch and hammer when the Wiseco's slide smoothly right in there (but still don't rock around at all), but it's the other way around for the circlips I'm sure just to confuse me personally. My worry now is the second circlip when I mount the pistons on the conn rods.....the above drama was just while on the bench so optimum conditions. No I don't have a $150 circlip installer but see most people on youtube and even FMH uses just a screwdriver and fingers. I'm re-thinking that now and should maybe by one.
The above question is less urgent at this point than the below one about the ring end gaps and gap positions. I also realize you have a paying site but I'm already a member at FMH and they haven't answered one question I asked a year ago nor this very question yesterday. Maybe next year I should pay you instead of them even though I do love their site and videos.....I think yours are superior detail wise. The things you mentioned about that oil separator ring and top/bottom rails were mostly ignored by them (and Clymer and possibly even by Harley in their own manuals).
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Hey quick question the oil expander ring does s it matter if the expander ring goes in upside down are they like one way kinda deal. The reason I'm asking is I bought my sons bike and took engine apart it wasn't working very good and I noticed the expander oil ring was in upside down
Hey Joey. It sure can on some models. Sounds like you could really use one on one with Shane.
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Diferent positions for diferent models, for what models is these ring positions that you show us?
I'm sorry I don't recall as this is a really old video and was more about teaching students "skill sets" and introduction to ring installation. 99% of all models used the 3 point and most manufactures have gone to the four courners. The best best is always to trust the service manual for your year make and model. If your this deep in the engine, you need it for correct torque specs anyway right? 😊
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Hi shane, these videos are awesome and I'd like to take a course, mi problem is I' dont undersand the english language, I speak a little. there should be a way to translate it to spanish. Greetings frm Mexico.
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1991 Chevy Silverado 5.7 135.000 miles My truck just started smoking out of 1 side. Drivers side, Heavy Blue smoke when u rive it up. Started doing this after i changed oil with 4 quarts oil plus 1 quart Lucas Oil stab.. I also changed out 1 injector tbi throttle body with New/reman. injector. Also replaced oil pressure sensor.. Now it started smoking blue smoke out of just one side. IT also still running rich/flooding but no misfire or loss of power i dont think but i havent road it yet. I think i make have a broke oil ring but hoping not. All help appreciated
You could always try swapping the old parts back and see if you by chance got a "bad" new part.
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Hi. cau you tell me if it is possible to replace a piston rings without grinding a cylinder surface?
You can put new rings in a cylinder without boring or honing, but the cylinder will wear the rings down in uneven places.sometimes you can hone the cylinder, but if it has lots of hours on it, it will be worn .best to have measurements taken if possible, then decide on putting new rings in.
OLÁ. Se pesquisares como são fabricados os setores de aço cromado concluirá que eles devem ter lado de montagem em relação a lateral da canaleta do pistão . ABRAÇOS
OLÁ. Insisto com o fato de que sobre anéis não entendes o suficiente. Tens muito a aprender. ABRAÇOS..
hello sir.. can i ask if that's okay to use flat head piston? i ordered china brand with the flat head piston
Many factors to determine the best piston. Not a quick answer. Good news, I can help though. You can email me the details and get a detailed response back! Yup....:)
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i am rebuilding 1981 honda xl185. i ordered a 20$ piston and had the cylander done to fit. then i realized i maybe should've got a better piston than i did. its only .15 over stock. should i get a better piston or use what i have. i don't wanna blow my bike up after all that work. whats your opinion on how to proceed.
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Great tutorial video here I have a gy6 150cc scooter motor will this piston ring procedure have anything to do with the engine seizing up or turning over??
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yup
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Use a feeler gauge to run the rings on the piston it's a lot easier than using picks etc
You rock! 👍
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good luck
Hi sir! Just asking if the problem of my car is piston rings or valve seals. It emmits whiteish and bluish thick smoke in my exhaust. Sometimes my oil cap and dipstick have smoke too. What is the problem sir?
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Hello, What's the manual that you show in the video? Thanks.
That's an OEM Hd service manual.
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I will be replacing the pistons in my L6 4.0L Jeep Grand cherokee soon, will this information be helpful? the only thing i am worried about are the piston rings as i have never done that before. do you have any advice? Greetings from Iceland :)
Hi friend. I’m the Social Media Manager here. I'm going to tackle this for you as he just had a similar question from another fan on "if this works on most all pistons". Hi answer was: Yes, absolutely. I can't express enough how important it is to have a service manual handy for exact model specific information you will need if this far in the engine anyway.
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Good evening sir please how can i get the workshop manual thanks?
Google Trade bit service manuals. We find many there in PDF form cheap. Glad it helped! You rock for commenting! We will let Shane know!
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my problem is ring number 2 is looking up or town?
Thank you for all the information! Not only how to do it correctly but the make sure you don't do this information!
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I'm trying to find piston rings, engine bearings and a seal kit for a 1986 Honda shadow VT1100.
it's hunt and peck on ebay and the bearings I ordered turned out to be used.
is there a good source you know of that has new parts?
Bearings are usually standard. Engine designers work around bearings available from suppliers. If you can find the specification, or possibly just the measurements a supplier like SKF or GKN should be able to help.
Yes. Dealers have the ability to do a search on the Honda database looking of stock at other dealerships. Problem is they won't offer it usually as they are afraid to send business out. I smart dealer would take your money and order the parts in from the stocking dealer and you would never know the difference. Like this tip?
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if you can get the heads off the engine and the oil pan without removing the block from the truck can you install new rings without taking the engine out of the truck?
I'm not an auto expert, but I don't see why not. You don't have as controlled environment for keeping clean but you physically should be able too. I was teaching in Africa last year and watched techs rebuilding engines in the dirt!
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hmmmmm re learned LOL thanks for refreshing my memory
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what if there isnt any kind of markings
Beautiful video.. INFORMATIVE
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Nils Schinken, hello, my XT600 emits a lot of smoke and I tried replacing the ring piston and the calf seal but it still smokes, what can be the problem?
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Hello Hello my .sir. thanks your channel Ihave problem please help me how to setting rings Gap on the piston motorcycle CG 125 please help me thanks
That surely is a question for Shane. We try to respond to these questions but with 700 videos on here its hard to keep up with the demand of over 400 requests a week for “a quick answer” it's just become hard to manage in a timely manner.
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I need a complete installation of all toyota engine with a proper explanation
👍
How will you noticedthe rings are wrong
**TOMA MI LIKE DESDE COLOMBIA**
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The top of an o-ring that is properly installed will usually be:
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HELP...i followed your video to install my piston rings. Since the new ring gaps are wider then the stock, i installed as they are.
Top and 2nd (Old =0.12 , New = .020)
Stock single oil ring = .009,, New comes with 3 oil ring = 0.020. The expander does but up. i ensured it moves/turns once installed.
After the break-in period, engine started making noise like the piston rings were scraping the cylinder walls. I took off the cylinder head and sure enough all six cylinders show signs of scraping. The cross hatch on the left and right side of all six cylinders have become smooth.
What could be the problem that's causing the scraping of the cylinder walls since the NEW ring GAPS were much larger then the stock?
Hey there...we grabbed Shane quick and he said that .020 was way to big and he would need more time than a quick reply to get you the info you need.
That’s a great question for Shane directly! We are just the social media team. Shane does answer questions when he get's back around to non members eventually so hang tight, FYI >>>> he does member ones daily!
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what could happen if you don't get the gap set away from the oil drain holes ?
Likely cause more blow by and oil burning
They do make ring expanders. Lol.
:)
some times theres no dot or mark of any kind. my rings do have an inner side chamfer or beveled edge on one side. what then? its the one piece of info that i dont have.
I wouldn't want to guess what you have. Contact me email with photos if you need more help. Link on website.
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What's the ideal measurements for the gaps between the ends of individual rings when inserted inside the cylinder plus what's the ideal clearance around a piston that is inserted inside a cylinder? Someone help provide answers
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.002-.004 thousands per inch of bore 3 inch bore .006-.012 thousands
@@davidgilmour9790 thanks beyond measure, I highly appreciate your time and effort, keep up the good work
@@davidgilmour9790 does this rule apply to the clearance between a piston and the bore or cylinder itself? Thanks
Can a bad crank seal on a two stroke can it run like crap?
Yes sir
A bad crank seal can leak air ( ignition side) or oil( clutch side) , or both.some, not all, machines can allow seals to be removed ,carefully, without disassembling engine
I put the ring expander in first.
Thank You for Reply
They are said when Lapping a Valves ,
There is pressure on the old piston rings and ,
Oil will leak into the combustion chamber
Is this what will limit true
if you seal up cylinder head valve seats to valve by lapping in completely and replace the valve seals if you did nothing to the rings or bore then it May contribute to more oil burning by the worn rings. It is possible to burn more oil in this way from 35 years of experience.
can you just leave the piston in the engine, and assemble it by putting the bottom ring in first?
We are just the social media team. Shane has a solution for you. You can use his techline and he will tell you how to do it or ship it to him.
He is just returning from an extended stay in Japan training students this winter. You can imagine how full his inbox is. We put orders are to the front of the line.
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I have a Hyundai Santa fe 2005 2.7L 120.000 Mi , the timing belt is Broken! I want to Bent Valves, and What About The piston rings, Do I change it? There are some said ! Must be changed .
The timing belt does not affect the pistons rings and other tests like compression or leakdown will determine the ring condition with120,000 miles. Some car engines have clearance built in for when the timing belt breaks there is room and the valves do not bend...others don't have the room and will bend (every motorcycle made I believe!)
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Thank You for Reply
They are said when Lapping a Valves ,
There is pressure on the old piston rings and ,
At 11:58, aren't the yellow markings on the piston crown, corresponding to gap locations of the Bottom oil rail (B) and Top oil rail (T), reversed when compared to the diagram in the manual (Bottom oil rail --> gap at location 2; Top oil rail --> gap at location 3)?
You are correct. Good eye....😁...Thanks for subbing...
I made a pinned comment of your finding....ty
@@How2Wrench Now "joined" as well. Thanks for all the great content over the years.
@@Zerk_Ziegler Appreciated...and thank you...
How do you do a Ford 5.4
Hi friend. Running down today’s list of comments! I try to answer when I've seen it before, but I don't recognize this one. I’m the Social Media Manager here. That’s a good question for Shane. He gets hundreds of requests a day and starts each day answering MEMBER or donation support questions first and then if there is time he will try to circle back before heading to the shop for customer work.
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what happens if you forget to mark pistons/
Nothing