I believe the German High Command considered Citadel/Kursk a victory if a costly one. But after D-Day the eastern forces were constantly stripped of men and materiel in an attempt to stop the invasion from the west.
Only an idiot would have considered Citadel a victory especially in light of the Soviet offensives Kutozov and Polkovodets Rumyantsev that immediately followed the failure of Citadel. As to striping the Eastern front ... divisions count June 1944, East 187, West 67. September 1944, East 160, West 69 (the lower number in the East reflects the destruction of 28 divisions of AG Centre by Operation Bagration). December 1944, East 176, West 86. March, 1945, East 207, West 72. The numbers don't appear to support your conjecture.
Actually, in his book, Field Marshal Eric Manstien did consider Kursk a victory. Interesting. He was overruled by Hitler and the German High Command staff, and he was ordered to withdraw. The Allies had just taken Sicily. And now German manpower was at a premium. Germany was now losing on a second (Italian) front.
@@raywhitehead730 Yes, he did. It doesn't make it true. Citadel was his plan. Guderian opposed it. And in HIS memoirs, he wrote "By the failure of Citadel we had suffered a decisive defeat." (p.312 in my edtion of Panzer Leader). Manstein and OKW had grossly underestimated Soviet concentrations and reserves. For example they estimated 1,500 Soviet tanks in the area; they had over 5,000. And then Operations Kutuzov and Polkovodets-Rumyantsev immediately followed the failure of Citadel and resulted in the capture of Orel (and the collapse of that salient) as well as Belgorod and Kharkov.
There was actually a much much larger armored clash in Russia earlier on the war we never hear of. Probably because Germany actually won that one. That doesn't fit well into Soviet propaganda now does it ?😉
Battle of Kursk actually began with a RUSSIAN artillery barrage aimed at the Germans' gathering and jumping-off points, begun less than an hour before the Germans' planned barrage.
1:26- Someone needs to take that rifle away from that one kid. Something tells me he's gonna have a tough time hitting at what he's aim for and is more likely to hit his buddy Wolfgang next to him than to hit the enemy.
I believe the German High Command considered Citadel/Kursk a victory if a costly one. But after D-Day the eastern forces were constantly stripped of men and materiel in an attempt to stop the invasion from the west.
Only an idiot would have considered Citadel a victory especially in light of the Soviet offensives Kutozov and Polkovodets Rumyantsev that immediately followed the failure of Citadel.
As to striping the Eastern front ... divisions count
June 1944, East 187, West 67. September 1944, East 160, West 69 (the lower number in the East reflects the destruction of 28 divisions of AG Centre by Operation Bagration). December 1944, East 176, West 86. March, 1945, East 207, West 72.
The numbers don't appear to support your conjecture.
Actually, in his book, Field Marshal Eric Manstien did consider Kursk a victory. Interesting. He was overruled by Hitler and the German High Command staff, and he was ordered to withdraw. The Allies had just taken Sicily. And now German manpower was at a premium. Germany was now losing on a second (Italian) front.
@@raywhitehead730 Yes, he did. It doesn't make it true. Citadel was his plan. Guderian opposed it. And in HIS memoirs, he wrote "By the failure of Citadel we had suffered a decisive defeat." (p.312 in my edtion of Panzer Leader).
Manstein and OKW had grossly underestimated Soviet concentrations and reserves. For example they estimated 1,500 Soviet tanks in the area; they had over 5,000. And then Operations Kutuzov and Polkovodets-Rumyantsev immediately followed the failure of Citadel and resulted in the capture of Orel (and the collapse of that salient) as well as Belgorod and Kharkov.
There was actually a much much larger armored clash in Russia earlier on the war we never hear of. Probably because Germany actually won that one. That doesn't fit well into Soviet propaganda now does it ?😉
Battle of Kursk actually began with a RUSSIAN artillery barrage aimed at the Germans' gathering and jumping-off points, begun less than an hour before the Germans' planned barrage.
1:26- Someone needs to take that rifle away from that one kid. Something tells me he's gonna have a tough time hitting at what he's aim for and is more likely to hit his buddy Wolfgang next to him than to hit the enemy.
😂😂 I needed that. Thank you.
Of course one doesnt shout out about ones losses .