Who or what is Tom Bombadil - The Lore behind this mysterious LotR Character - Tolkien Lore
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2019
- Who or what Tom Bombadil? He is one of the most mysterious and enigmatic characters in The Lord of the Rings book and also a fan favourite. But what exactly is he? What's the lore behind him and what is his story? What is with his wife Goldberry or the evil tree entity Old Man Willow? In this #LotR #lore video I analyse what what we know and look into several fan theories.
In the end #Tolkien wanted to create his own mythology and mysterious characters like Tom add to this, esp when Tolkien usually wrote very detailed stories and lore for every character in his universe.
I hope you enjoy. If you are looking for more in-depth lore videos, then check my books and films differences and references video series or check my channel.
The playlist is here:
• LotR Prologue Explaine...
Mistakes
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Sources:
Books:
The Lord of The Rings (1954-1955) by J. R. R. Tolkien
The Silmarillion (1977) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Hobbit (1937) by J. R. R. Tolkien
Unfinished Tales (1980) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien (1981) by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien
The Return of the Shadow (1988) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
Morgoth's Ring (1993) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Adventures of Tom Bombadil (1962) by J. R. R. Tolkien
Pictures from:
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012)
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (2013)
The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014)
Best LotR Wiki:
TolkienGateway.net
Artworks and special thanks:
Kimberly80 - www.deviantart.com/kimberly80/
Maps by:
- lotrproject.com/map
- Amazon
- ThePhilosophersGames
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Here's my newest lore video. It was quite difficult to make and structure and there is probably more to say about this complex topic, but I hope you like it. Shout outs to Kimberly80, who allowed me to use her art: www.deviantart.com/kimberly80
If you want to see more, here is my in detail films/books differences series:
czcams.com/play/PLvqIed90tYZoiZZ-mAGxp6NnUrdURe0Uq.html
And that's my playlist with all my LotR lore videos:
czcams.com/play/PLvqIed90tYZpningSt6m3FJeOs3eKK5Lc.html
There's a full length rendition of Bombafil's ding dongs and Bree's cat and fiddle on youtube
I'm looking forward to this one. I'll be able to watch it later. Tom is one of my favorite mysteries in Tolkien's universe.
Pretty much everything about him points to him being Eru, and when things are said by lower beings (including Gandalf an the like in this vous everyone is a lower being technically) that dont match up with him being Eru its because they dont understand his true nature and what he is really capable of doing/being, because thats the way he wants it to be for whatever reason he has, probably so everyone doesn't just come bug him to fix all the shit or treat him like a God king, or even possibly in this form he can only change certain things or use a small part of his power (again like Gandalf an others) and obviously Eru loved music an to sing which ties in nicely with all that...
That's an interesting thought. Ofc all would be easy if Eru just makes it happen.
Why I said I think it's the most unlikely one beyond what I have listed in the video:
Why would Eru need to be a guy on Arda living isolated in the woods. He could be a random guy wandering all his creation without anybody knowing, that he is in fact Eru, meeting his children on his journeys. But he prefers to be a legendary man isolated in the woods singing and dancing all day with his wife Goldberry. Maybe he already did all this in the past, but what's the point of staying in that forest then? Also why did he set borders to himself (he withdrew to his borders, that nobody can see)?
Ofc it could be still possible, but it's not my favourite theory.
(For those curious: I ignore Tolkien's letter 153, where Tolkien argues against this, but he never send the letter as far as I know)
@@ThePhilosophersGames i agree with you that there is a few "flaws" as it were in this explanation but none that cant be solved i reckon,
As for his boarders it is implied that originally he did roam all of arda and has gradually changed/reduced his own boarders as the "dark"/evil has expanded so he did use to move around all of arda, an hes only reduced his own area out of the need to not been seen to interfere (hed run into some ork army and have to defend himself, probably with a big bang and then everyone would know of him) in or solve his childrens problems, if he solved one thing hed be hassled to fix everything an his children would never learn to be independent an fix there own issues, so he makes sure that they can stand on there own feet but that hes also able to still be involved in the world in some sort of way, this reasoning also removes the thing about him not using his full power (tho that also has the argument that taking mortal form, like the valar and miara, means he has limits on his power levels ect thru being on the mortal plane and not in the void).
I have thought about this idea on a fair few occasions from time to time lol, so i feel like i could find a in lore reason for any problems with the theory anyone could have with it, tho its always poss theres something ive not thought about, so im always happy to hear anyone's thoughts about the theory and hopefully i can answer them to there satisfaction.
*whispers*
(.......pssss.....hail melkor....)
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow:
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.
Whilst his drudge Goldberry cleans and cooks:
And Brian Blessed stole his looks.
@@countiblis1246 lol
(waited two months for that response ... totally worth it though)
Tolkien told us clearly who Tom Bombadil was.
He was the First.
When the world was created it was a manifestation of music. It started with Iluvatar that introduced a theme. Then the Valar joined in.
So Tom Bombadil is the Theme. He is not made by Valar. He is made by Illuvatar.
Maybe Goldberry is part of the same creation.
I would say that is right except for being created by Eru lluvatar. Otherwise he wouldn't be fatherless.
So either he is an earthly manifestation of Eru lluvatar ? Or something separate .
Which if you have played music to the point of making it up on the spur of the moment , (jamb bands do this regularly).
You get the feeling the music was/is already there floating in the ether. And you are just channeling it to make it manifest in the world.
But with any piece of music , it has a form with which it feels needs followed ( certain notes sound good with each other)
So in an off the cuff jamb song ... some one starts a key progression , then others can catch on making it more complex but still following what seemed to be there in the first place.
So Tom was the song floating in the ether ... Eru lluvatar was the first musician to channel him , creating other musicians , that then joined in , helping to make Tom manifest in the earthly realm. Err sumthin like that ^shrug^ ?
Tom bom, jolly tom, Tom bombadilo!
Tom says he's oldest, and you call him a liar? He's not created by the song of Iluvatar, for that'd mean he'd be younger than Iluvatar, and Tom would not be oldest. Tom exists beyond the creation of Arda or all that came before it.
I don't think so. Tom is Tolkien's manifestation inside the world he created.
@@dominicomegon4714 You mean that Tolkien has put himself inside his own creation? But Tolkien also existed before what he created. He was the first.
@@Lasselucidora
"The Eldest" means older than even Eru. Only one person fits that and it's the person who created Eru.
I've wondered if Tom Bombadil, Old Man Willow and Ungoliant were angelic beings similar to Maiar or Valar, but leftover from a previous creation of Eru Illuvatar. They seem to just arrive in Arda from "outside". It would explain their neutrality towards the goals of conflicts within Arda but propensity towards goodness or evil. The ring was basically irrelevant to Tom, perhaps he'd already seen the end of a world and the beginning of a new one, to him, it was all pretty small beans. It would explain why he had the good nature to help Frodo and his party on their way, but wouldn't do more beyond the bounds of that part of the world he allowed for himself; he would have seen that all things had to play out the way the music of the Valar dictated it would. I've pondered on a bit that Gandalf said about Tom when the council asked if they could just give Tom the Ring. He said something about Tom just forgetting it somewhere and not really caring, which would have landed them in the same situation they were already in. It seems Tom was unable to alter the course of things in Arda, despite apparently having the theoretical power to do so.
this needs more likes
"only a child would not see the danger and walk in carelessly"
Well or an adult who doesn't see the danger that children imagine. Tom is clearly far wiser and stronger than any of them, and therefore does not need to heed the danger.
Just like the calming effect a grown-up's presence can have on a child, Tom calms these children (for they can be no more than that in his eyes) by his mere presence.
Discussions of Tom Bombadil are usually quite interesting. I like how you put everything on the table for everyone to consider.
You alluded to a possible reason for the shroud of mystery that envelopes the Tom Bombadil character. It's my opinion that Tolkien deliberately created him as an enigmatic force in Middle Earth. When dissecting the works of Tolkien, the one thing that must always remain at the forefront is the source material. Before ever trying to inject our own interpretations of his work, we must consider Tolkien, the man. He was *extremely* fastidious in his details. Everything that he wrote was deliberate and well thought out. If he allowed Tom Bombadil to be presented in a manner that seems inexplicable, or even incongruous with the rest of his creation, then there was a purpose behind his desire to do so.
In life there are many things for which we simply do not have answers. Neither science, nor society have evolved to the point of explaining everything. In some cases, this leads us to accept some things in all their strangeness and mystery; and at some point we achieve a level of knowledge and understanding that explains some of those mysteries.
Tom is such a mystery, in Tolkien's creation. We aren't meant to understand him. He just is. As such, we need to adjust our perspectives to allow for his existence, while never relying on it. Powerful as be may be, it's a power that only exists and works on his terms. That's why Gandalf recognizes that Tom could be of no help to them in their struggle with the ring... and with Sauron.
Nice conclusion
Tom is a complex topic because, as with most of Tolkien's characters, he doesn't have a neat allegorical identity. Tolkien preferred the concept of "applicability" that a character like Tom could exemplify a variety of ideas or themes without being limited to one thing that he represents.
The character of Tom actually predates the Lord of the Rings. He originated as a character in little stories that Tolkien would tell to his children. Tolkien said of this character that he represented the idyllic countryside of Tolkien's youth, before it was despoiled by modern development. In this concept Tom is very much like the old idea of a tutelary spirit. A tutelary spirit was the guardian or patron of a specific place or geographical feature. So you could, for example, have a tutelary spirit of a river, or waterfall, or a forest etc.
It is also worth bringing up the notion that in medieval cosmology they had the idea that beings were organized on a type of hierarchy. Plants were at the bottom as creatures that had life, but did not have sensation. Then animals had life and sensation, but not reason. Then humans had all three, but were mortal and lived in the changeable corruptible realm of earth (the sub-lunar realm). Angels were above humans and were, by nature, creatures of the celestial spheres and thus were immortal and not subject to change and corruption in the same way that earthly creatures are, though they could still fall through temptation. All of these types of beings are still familiar to modern people, and more or less are still believed in by large numbers of people.
The medievals, however had another category of beings that existed in the hierarchy between humans and angels. They were creatures that were for the most part immortal, but they were still resident in the sub-lunar realm (earth bound) and thus were subject to change and corruption etc. This group were called longevi (if memory serves) meaning the "long livers" or immortals. This is where all of the fey creatures of medieval folklore and legend belong. Thus technically the Elves of Tolkien's world would be this type of creature. However, it would also include other mythological fey creatures and probably tutelary spirits as well. So Tom would probably fall into this category of being.
The medievals themselves didn't have a clear definition of what these creatures were or where they came from. There were a variety of theories. However, they could be either good or evil, and they were often regarded as beautiful, but potentially very dangerous. They were generally unconcerned with human affairs and therefore very unpredictable.
I'm pretty confident that this type of being is where Tolkien drew the inspiration for Tom. So that kind of establishes WHAT Tom is, a tutelary nature spirit.
However, Tom is also of significant philosophical or thematic importance to Middle Earth. Tolkien basically said that Tom wasn't essential to the plot and was almost a diversion from the plot, but that he left Tom in the story because he felt that Tom exemplified ideas or themes that would otherwise not be sufficiently represented.
Tom represents an idea from Classical Platonic and Christian Medieval philosophy about the nature of being and all created things. In platonic philosophy all things that exist are the embodiment of eternal ideas, commonly called "forms". The important aspect of this for considering Tom is that the Forms give each thing a perfect identity and self-contained purpose and meaning. This leads tot he conclusion that each thing belongs to itself and that the ultimate purpose for, or reason why each thing exists, is simply to be itself.
This idea is the complete antithesis of modern philosophy which is generally built on utilitarianism. The idea that the natural world exists to be made use of. This is perhaps best exemplified by the modern Axiom that knowledge is power.
In modern science and philosophy knowledge is power because knowing how things work enables us to exploit them for our own ends. If we know how nature works, we can use nature to accomplish what we want.
In ancient and medieval philosophy knowledge was not seen primarily as a means to power, but rather knowledge was seen as its own reward. They didn't seek knowledge in order to gain control. Rather they sought knowledge because they thought things were worth knowing on their own merits. This is absolutely fundamental to understanding Tolkien's themes in LoTR.
Tom Bombadil exemplifies the pre-modern mindset of knowing each thing within his domain for its own sake. He is the master, he knows every tree, every blade of grass etc, but he does not use that knowledge in order to control things for his own sake. Rather he allows each thing to be itself.
I think it is also important to contrast this against some modern forms of environmentalism which deny human beings the ability to even make use of nature as it is without trying to change it. For example, Tom eats honey and cream. He milks cows etc. This is showing a the idea of a harmonious relationship in which Tom benefits from the cows, but he does not dominate them or change them for his own purposes. He allows them to simply be cows, but also they benefit him simply by doing what cows do.
In this regard Tom also can be seen as a kind of image of the Christian view of Adam (or mankind) in his unfallen state before sin. He lived in harmony in the Garden of Eden. God gave him dominion over nature, he had the right to name all the animals etc, but he did not exploit them or dominate them for his own purposes. Rather he acted as a guardian and a gardner, a steward.
This also plays into why the Ring has no power over Tom. Tom has no desire whatsoever to control other beings. The whole point of the Ring is to extend dominion over the wills of other beings. This is completely foreign to Tom and as such has no meaning to him. Tom is perfectly himself with no desire to be otherwise, or to extend his will over anything else.
There is a lot more that could be said, but this is too long already so I'll stop ;)
That was fantastic.
Thank you for writing such a well-thought-out comment!! I'm going to read it at least twice more before I say anything else. :)
This comment is pure gold.
Thank you.
Fascinating analysis, thank you for sharing!
That was brilliant
TOM BOMBADIL
In British myth there are the Fairies-a dream like realm that is very much like our own, but a step removed into the Dream Time. I believe that these two were elemental human personifications of nature. They were mythic personifications of "Old Father Time" (ancient geological time) and "The River Daughter" made into a human example of simple ancient virtue. Who hasn't felt the deep time of a thousand changeless seasons while walking in the woods?
They represent the "good and virtuous" love and care for nature and the creative mystic wonder of the dream worlds. I think maybe the Professor was ingeniously blurring the line between story teller and story; this world and the worlds of Dreams, imagination, and mystical vision. I base this on the dreams that the Hobbits have in his company and the strange dream like events that happen "under hill." Tom and Goldenberry live basically in the Twi-Light zone between waking and dreams. After all, we all dream-isn't that the basis of all literature, religion and myth?
Tom Bombadil could be Melkors imprisonment, with Goldberry as his 'Gaoler'. It all fits... even the willow containing his evil aspect. Very old, very powerful, good singer(Melkor sang evil into creation) and what a punishment, to be subjectively cast into a void of goodness (devoid of evil) If nothing else... that hat.
Underrated comment mate
yes that's also a very interesting theory.
Or he is the physical form of Eru Iluvatar.
Remind me of a theory that Tom and Goldberry are reincarnations of Morgoth and Ungoliant, working off their karmic burdens.
(Can't take credit for this theory; it was posted two days ago by user "Jackal head", in a comment on the Tom Bombadil video on the "History of the Ages" channel.)
@@donweatherwax9318 Also, note Tom's fascination with shiny jewels. His only loot from the barrows was a gemstone necklace for Goldberry The jewels seemed to have a profound effect on him. Memories of the Silmarills, perhaps.
Perhaps JRT put it in for future reference. After all, in his LOTR episode 4 pitch, Tolkien wrote about a new, evil religion, growing in Middle Earth, so maybe... just maybe.
J R.R. Tolkien died in 1973. The Lord of the Rings was published in 1954-1955. Part of what makes any literary work great is, unexplained mysteries within that work. Those unexplained mysteries provide depth and range to the world creation of the writer. Part of Tom Bombadil comes from the life and creative energies of J.R.R. Tolkien. But also, it comes from Tolkien's deep knowledge of legend and literature and what makes things memorable. In other words, Tolkien included Tom Bombadil simply because he was unexplained. The proof of his genius is, almost fifty years after his death, people are still seriously discussing "Who or what is Tom Bombadil".
Tom Bombadil is definitely the most mysterious character.
In my opinion, part of the reason for this is just the writing process. Tom Bombadil came out on the page before the story coalesced into what it became in the end.
I think you've done an excellent job covering the best theories about Tom Bombadil.
I favor the theory of Bombadil as a theophany of Ilúvatar, that theory does require that Gandalf, who usually speaks for Tolkien, is wrong about his vulnerability. If Arda were a real world, it is not surprising that even Gandalf might not be aware of his true nature. There is a good reason that Ilúvatar would be unconcerned about the current state of affairs in Arda. He knows that everything will work out in the end. Evil only creates sorrow, which leads to a higher good. I understand that while Bombadil is oldest and fatherless, the same may be said of Ilúvatar.
The whole of Arda was made from song, Bombadil's natural mode of communication and exercise of power is song.
Yes that's a quite popular theory. And ofc it's possible that Gandalf is simply wrong about him or can't see his true nature. There are ofc some "meta" arguments against it, but this does not count in the realm of fan theories ^^
4:35 those are actually the Ent-wives. It's a deliberate trail of clues that lead you to something Tolkien put in the books to reward careful reading. 1)A Hobbit saw a walking tree near the edge of the Garden/orchard filled Shire 2)Moving trees in the old forest that have now only Bombadil to keep watch over them. 3)Fangorn, which was in the past connected to the old forest but is now separated by mountains and open plains. 4)Treebeard says that they lost them long ago, but unlike male Ents that managed non-fruit bearing trees, the Ent-wives preferred Orchards and Gardens which takes us back to 1. Really if Tolkien had done more writing instead of just trying to set his history down exactly the way he thought was most perfect, we might have gotten more "Lost Tales of the Fourth Age". It would have been neat to see Short works about the glittering caves, merry and pippin finding the ent-wives and reuniting them with the ents, Gondor being rebuilt and the new house of Elessar. But al we got were endless minor rewrites of the Silmarillion that kept Christopher busy for decades. In a way him not doing that solidified the core theme of his world. Loss. There is no other book series that encapsulates the laws of thermodynamics in literary form better.
Yes I made a video about this topic at some point, where I also mention this theory and refrence this scene. So I agree, it could be Ent-wives. Esp. because the forests were connected once according to Elrond (czcams.com/video/KgBEQGMcNoo/video.html).
Yes there are often a lot of iterations of the same text, which can also be very confusing. On the other side iteration is a necessary part of writing. Some of my video scripts also have multiple versions of some passages, so I can see how this is needed if you write long stories. Ofc there is also the changing his mind part and re-writing a lot, just to implement a small idea, like the Round World version.
The walking tree in the Northfarthing of the Shire is not an Entiwife. It is too tall to be so, and it is a birch, which is not the type of tree an Entwife would be. That Ondolo was probably an Ent from the Woods of Harlindon (South Lindon), which used to be the Woods of Ossiriand/ the Woods of Lindon, where Ents dwelt in the First Age.
Tom Bombadil is the True Neutral.
From what I've understand about him, Tom is the Spirit of Nature itself. He has existed at the early days of Middle-Earth, and his wife is the Spirit of Rivers.
Yes I would come to a quite similar conclusion as explained in the video ^^
Maria Paz G. Lesme he's definitely not neutral, he's good because he saved the hobbits from the arnorian wraiths. If he was neutral he wouldn't have offered his help with the song they were supposed to sing if they'd get in trouble. He would've just let them go.
@@tysonmccorkle1036 That's his personality. You are confusing that with morality. Bombadil is not important character within the story as a whole. He may be friendly man living with his wife, but doesn't want to deal anything beyond his own territory. That what means to be nuetral, not dealing with forces or events outside their own space.
Maria Paz G. Lesme He still helped the hobbits, invited them into his house, fed them and saved them once again. Saving them meant forwarding the rest of the story, because if that didn't happen, they would've died and the Ring would've found itself in Sauron's possession once again, and knowing that Tom is a very old being beyong human and even elvish comprehension, we can assume that he knew all this, therefore he was a force of good. He most definitely cared about events outside his forest.
@@tysonmccorkle1036 He is more or less, an Spirit of Nature. Not an force of good. Tom has existed even before the Dark Lord, the darkness of the sky and even the stars itself. He is neutral. He may be powerful, but he can't the nature of the One Ring. He offer help and protection as long you are within his territory. However, he choose to remain neutral, he doesn't act nothing beyond his safe space. That's why he doesn't join the Conciul of Elrond or the White Conciul.
The fact that Tom gives the hobbits barrow blades adds another crazy element to his discussion. That means he knew the history of the barrow downs, obviously that the hobbits were being chased by the person that basically made the barrow wights(the witchking) and that one of them would eventually have to face him and need these weapons to defeat him. I dont know why people dont mention this more because it really shows that Tom does care about whats going on in the world even if its never stated. I think even moreso because of this that Tom is either Erus avatar or maybe the goodness in Melkor that was somehow expelled. He loves nature and has boundaries to avoid the rest of the world yet he still lives right next to evil in the barrow downs which has history and is connected to the story of Men and the RIng.
Many people often criticize the Tom Bombadil section to be too long whilst doing little for the overall plot development of the Lord of the Rings. In my opinion, I think Tom exists to show how the story transitions from a whimsical Hobbit-like fairytale into something more mature. Tom saves the Hobbits from the Barrow Wights and Old Man Willow, but when Sam and Frodo are split from the fellowship there’s nobody who really has their backs (Including Gandalf).
While Faramir sort of guides Frodo and Sam, Lord of the Rings becomes a bit more devoid of its more fun and humorous themes. I remember reading during the Stairs of Cirith Ungol chapter, Sam even wishes Tom was there or what someone like him would do in such a situation. No longer are they just against an angry tree or spirits when all of Mordor is just beyond a mountain. There’s my two cents
Wells aid and i agree. I always loved the Tom Bombadil part ^^ But some people probably once disliked the 2-3 chapters (red that in the comments too but for some it changed over time). I think he is an important part of LotR's lore and its concept of mythology and they also often refer to Tom again in the books (like you said). When the Nazgul confront Frodo at the ford before Rivendell, he also thinks of Tom and the power of his words.
Interesting point. It does transition into something more serious after that.
An extrapolation on Father Time, and Mother Nature.
In a rather oblique way, Tom reminds me of the Buddha Mind. He proceeded the first rain drop. Through the ever-perishing occasions of life, whether judged as good or bad, true or false, Tom is Life. He is the vitality of Life, Aru, in love with all Life and doesn't take sides. He is 'there' to enjoy the whole 'story' and therefore part of us all. He is all of us that are free from before of the 'story' began and free after the story has ended. Tom still dances. Creation still dances. Old Bombadilo enjoys it all.
“Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow”- Tom Bombadil, The Fellowship of the Ring.
Who’s Tom? He’s just a merry fellow. A classic literary example of the ancient proverb “happy wife, happy life”.
You are correct. I tell every young man I know...be sure to Marry a happy Woman., otherwise you will spend your life trying to make an unhappy person happy...good luck with that.
I think that Tom Bombadill and Goldberry might be two Ainur who didn't sing during the Ainulindalë, making them both completely connected to the world but also disconnected from it's conflict, making them neutral in the struggles of the world.
That's a very interesting theory. They are basically "dropouts", which makes sense. I like the theory.
To riff on your idea,.. Tom is the "upward moving neutral point" in the sine wave of the "world song", and Goldberry is the "downward moving neutral point" in the sine wave.
They are the two aspects of the"silence" within the world song.
The song itself is not older than the silence (T&G) which preceded it, as music must start and end, while the silence is what it is embedded in. Tom and Goldberry are technically "older" than the world song, but had no "intention", as there was nothing "to do".
Tom could "interfere" with parts of "the song", such as "saving necessary hobbits", because the "upcoming music" required those parts.
Tom "saves" things that are "future necessary" (carries things "up" into reality), whilst Goldberry "destroys (un-saves)" things that are "future unnecessary" (carries things "down" into "no-longer reality") within the world song.
That's why Tom "leaps and jumps into the air" and "resides on the hills", while Goldberry "draws and pulls underwater" and "resides in the (river) valleys".
Both Tom and Goldberry are essentially "mad" and nearly completely unrelatable to "normal beings" (as in "anyone NOT T&G") because they "know everything", being at the "balance point" of all "evolving events" throughout all time. They are utterly omnipotent throughout all time, but never "really interfere", as any perceived "interference" is simply a "special gift" to those who perceive it (the "characters and readers") that "mystery" really is real.
That gift is given by "the one", Eru.
All of the Ainur sang the song.
"Their "unity and harmony" thus increased, and eventually, Eru brought all the Ainur together and declared that they would play a song greater and more complex than they had ever sung before" - Silmarillion
@@ThePhilosophersGames Except they all sang the song.
That is most likely and Tolkien does not mention anything like that, but since we are in the realm of funny fan theories, everything goes. Don't see the problem.
Just want to point this out. It's freaking awesome that you gave the artist credit in the thumbnail.
How odd Tom would have seemed to Frodo in that moment is a great insight! That made me laugh aloud.
Tom bom, jolly tom Bombadil!
What made you think Tom lied? He says he's oldest, and you're getting confused. I don't get that. He's just oldest, not second oldest or third oldest. The elves have wisdom and call him fatherless, this too is an answer. He's not born of Eru or his creation. For if he was he'd neither be oldest or fatherless. Not being of Erus creation it'd make sense nothing in it would exert power over him. Tom has the power to destroy the one ring, but not the understanding required for it. The madness and hatred in it are beyond Toms comprehension and interests.
Tom Bombadil is the answer to the question every creation myth raises, "what came before the gods". Gandalf is wise and makes the classical wise mans mistake to try and make sense to what's entirely beyond him.
yes and remember Tom was kind of unintresting because it's said no man could defeat the oposite force, so at the end we find out the women has done it , precisly Lady
I think Tom is a personification of the enduring power of created beauty. He is symbolic of the love and pleasure of God in His own creation. He has allegiance to no manmade power structures or political systems, but is firmly rooted in goodness: not only in the preservation and restoration of nature, but compassionately saving the hobbits in their weakness. He has authority over evil, wisdom in counsel, and expresses the life-giving power of kindness, play, love, and home. I think Tolkien created Tom to be on earth (Middle Earth) as a reflection of what the stars are to the elves: a visible reminder that true power, goodness and beauty are eternal, untouchable by evil.
This was very well done. I liked how you covered all the aspects of Tom. I do think the discussion about him forgetting the ring is important. They believed he could hold off Mordor, but would lose interest in the ring and lose it. That is why I like your neutrality idea. He is beyond the conflicts of the world. He doesn't have any interest in their contact. Well done.
I agree that Tom is a byproduct of the creation of the world. I like this theory. A bit of mystery makes for splendid reading
Tom is clearly a Pattern Screamer. He was there before the universe was created, and forced to conform to the pattern or be destroyed. Most of his kind ceased to exist when the universe came into being, but some survived by finding a way to alter themselves to embrace the pattern. Those that survived ranged from being merely shadowy concepts lost in the hiss of the rain, or drifting motes in the sunlight, to those that fully embraced their new existence. Those that did the latter could potentially be godlike in power, able to alter reality with a thought. . . or song.
Most Pattern Screamers hate everything. They remember little of what they once were, except for the stark knowledge that they have lost the very essence of their beings, and are now trapped in an existence alien to them. A prison that we call reality.
Fortunately for Middle Earth, Tom adapted to his new existence, and even found joy in it; at least enough to not hate the creatures that live in this new world he now resides in. Which is a good thing, since otherwise he sounds sufficiently well integrated enough to destroy all of Middle Earth if he so desired. Instead he lives in his own little world, within boundaries he himself has set.
Incident of SCP-3930 self-contained, file closed.
Cheers from the Foundation. :)
jesus christ dude
so dark
I see the last explanation as being the most plausible. The idea that Tom, Goldberry, and Shelob are something akin to a "remainder" in a mathematical equation makes a lot of sense. At its core, music is a mathematical language and it makes sense that there would be some "remainder" at the end of such a tremendous equation.
I believe Tom Bombadil is Tolkien himself. It's his Avatar in Middle-Earth and Goldberry is obviously his wife. And the main reason I think this is so is because of how he writes Goldberry, it's personal and dripping with real life love and veneration. That's a dead giveaway for me that Goldberry represents a real life person. Hence Tom = Tolkien.
I like to think that the feather is a quill to write the book, his singing is bard like as a storyteller and the forest i relate to as the papers of the book, and he (or his words) is "bound to the book".
@@hazelvine brilliant. that would make him everything you need to create the feather to write with blue jacket ink on yellowing paper boots.hazel yourrrrre a goldhazelacornvineberry genius .
He is eru illuvatar, he sings songs that make and shape the world but is not affected by the creations of his songs
I have waited for quite some time for you to do a video on Tom Bombadil, Philosophers!!! He is definitely one of the most enigmatic and facinating characters in the entirety of the Legendarium. He truly represents the incredible mystery and vaguenes in some of the places of Tolkien's incredible world, and I honestly find him to be quite underrated within the fandom. I really love just how neutral and very hearty he is, and he definitely is one guy I would absolutely love to hangout with and smoke some awesome Old Toby with (lucky Gandalf hahaha!!! 😂😂😂)! :)
Yes, you had to wait for some time. I think I mentioned that I wanted to make this video in February or even earlier. Took me some time xD
haha yes he would definitely a cool guy to hang out with ^^
@@ThePhilosophersGames I don't mind the long wait! With just how deep and detailed your videos are, I could wait a year and I wouldn't mind. And ikr!!! :)
Yes, sometimes this takes time and what finally brought me close enough to tackle this topic were the film/book differences videos, where Tom is also on the list next. I started writing this video several times, but was never happy with it or felt I didn't know enough yet to structure it.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Well, all that hard work truly was worth it! You created one awesome and very insightful video on one of the most mysterious aspects and characters of Tolkien's entire Legendarium. And that is always worth all of the blood, sweat and tears that you put into your videos!!! :)
thank you, happy to hear it was worth it :) I'm actually also quite satisfied with it. I forgot to mention Farmer Maggot and Gildor though. But I can still do this in the next video books/film differences video ^^
I love the deadpan way you recite Tom's song when he first appears. LOL
😂
Love your content. Makes me think of when I was young and read Tolkien for the first time!
Once again, another fantastic study my friend. Thank you.
Thank you too, happy you enjoyed it :) It was a quite difficult video for me.
@@ThePhilosophersGames I can only imagine as Tom is such a mystery to even the Tolkien scholars who have studied his works for decades.
Yes, making some sense out of it and understanding some of the more common theories is one part, that is not that easy. But you also have to bring this into a structure that works in a video, without losing or confusing the viewer (or myself ^^).
Again, so enlightening. Thank you.
I love the way you also question your own theories.
I also like that there are things in LOTR that are not apart of the intended story.
We must assume that the story that Tolkien was telling us was just one of many stories of the Tolkien universe; although maybe the most Grand.
I'm sure if he had lived forever we would have heard more.
Thank you too for your kind words, happy you liked it :)
Yes I think creating mystery is a very powerful tool for telling stories, if used well (like in this case). If there would be a complex background story nobody would be surprised (because those exist too and also often in Tolkien's universe). You would even expect it, so people see it as "enigma" that can be deciphered and start creatively finding theories and answers, because the books offer so much.
First of all, thanks for such an excellent video rich in detail and information. In my opinion, Tom Bombadil as well as Goldberry or Ungoliant itself represent the purest and at the same time most subtle manifestation of the created universe. They are not Ainur, but "incarnations" of different aspects of creation itself; pure and beyond the dichotomy and conflict. They are what they are "masters of themselves" (the darkness that devours, the fire that illuminates, the seed that grows, the rain that falls). We could say that its origin lies in the fundamental pillars of the score designed by Eru Ilúvatar that would become the same music that the Ainur would sing before him, Ainulindalë.
Yes agreed. That's how I imagine the "nature" or "universe" spirits I mentioned in the video. They represent a certain aspect and are "neutral" in this regard. Well said.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Thank you very much for the feedback. I truly imagine these beings as the true race of the fairies not only of the middle earth, but of all Arda. Spirits of nature itself that do not belong to an axis of moral alignment. They have a will, but it is in working with the element they represent and the purpose it has in the universe. Maybe I could say that Tom saves our beloved hobbits not by following a compas of cultural or moral values, but rather by his innate care for life itself, which in my opinion is a kindness or "good", "balancing" the evil deeds in the spirit of the old willow and in the wraith of the mounds. The same for Ungoliant, since its actions do not represent "evil" because it does not seek to impose its will on others. She simply devours, because it is her nature to do it. As a proof we have how it almost swallows the very dark lord due to the light of the Silmaril. The power of these beings is undoubtedly immense, if I am not mistaken, I understand that Gandalf makes it clear to the fellowship that there are beings in the depths of Arda much older and more powerful than Sauron himself.
Yes agreed (I also made a smilar point about Ungoliant in the video). I also agree on Tom and helping the hobbits. I think he does it because he's a good guy in his nature, that cares for living things, not because he wants to change fate or fight Sauron.
If you mean the "Nameless Things" they are old and not even Sauron knows about them, but there was no comments about how powerful they are.
Tom's actions and the descriptions of him fit the description of the Ainur, the highest servents of Eru. Melkor (Morgoth) was one. They sang the world into being, but were bound by Eru not to interfere in Middle Earth.
Tom Bombadil is the David S Pumpkins of Tolkien's legendarium: he's his own thing and Goldberry is part of it.
You did well again
I always thought Tom Bombadil is the earth itself, while his wife is the water. Probably wrong, but I like it.
Yes I think there is a hint that Tom Bombadil represents the country side and ofc Goldberry seems to definitely be connected to water or rivers there. So your interpretation makes perfect sense. there are a ton of theories surrounding those two.
But why wouldnt the Earth itself be the Earth itself
Great topic, excellent commentary.
But a minor question. Why do so many insist that Tom is “neutral”, meaning neither good nor bad, when this is simply NOT true?
Dig into the various ways “good” is considered. Favorable as opposed to unfavorable. Strong rather than weak. True rather than false. Valid as opposed to bogus. Functional as opposed to dysfunctional.
Tom is NOT any of the “opposing items”; rather he exudes the way in which truth can be mysterious, but EVERYTHING about Tom is functional and in proportion. Tom is truth, without beating the concept into the Hobbits’ heads.
He helps the Hobbits rather than ignores them. He advises them, he feeds them, he tells them stories, they dream of other realms in his house, and he rescues them a second time and sends them on their way, much better prepared to face the challenges HE knows lie ahead.
Rather than neutral, I would say that sin (the Ring is a standby) has no power over Tom. Within the realm he inhabits, he is Master and has power to correct and amend, but if it is part of the natural world, he does not act. The evil in Old man Willow is not a result of anything created by Eru or the faithful Valar, but by the contagion of Melkor and the rebel Maiar. The barrow wights are also Melkor-engendered evil.
I still like some variation of the Jesus theme (for Tom), because He, in some Christian canon, manifested at the instant of Creation, so HE is “there”, like Tom, before the first raindrop or acorn.
However mysterious, Tom is a manifestation of creation, living as flesh and blood on the earth (Arda) as an “object lesson” to show conscious beings how they might live in harmony with the created world. Golberry is the eternal female persona, but without a clear relationship to Tom. He refers to her several times as his Lady, and she is described as the daughter of the River, but these relations are left intentionally vague. We should not assume they are married or even living together.
Jesus performed miracles, like Tom, but he chose NOT to correct all evils. Tom is not INTENDED as a stand in for Jesus, but I would suggest he is a variation on the Christ figure.
Tom Bombadil was the first note of the great song. Before good and evil. Stronger than all other notes and melodies, but not able to change them.
Itr might make sense that the One Ring would have no power over Tom because Tom has absolutely no desire to dominate anything or anyone. He is his own master, but not the owner of even the trees within his own realm. Just as the hobbits are less susceptible to the Ring because they don't crave power and control, Tom's lack of a craving for any power could give the Ring nothing to work with...even less than with the hobbits. He clearly is ancient and has some special role in the world, but it is not to play a major part in the history or struggles of living things on a large scale.
[Edit: I'd also add that I think he *does* care about good and evil, but his time horizon is very different from that of the elves or mortal races. He recognizes, as Sam later does too, that even the evil of Sauron is a temporary thing. Whatever Eru set Tom there to do, it's just not tied to worrying about "the short term" and to him the "short term" could be multiple ages. He may also just understand Eru's plans better than anyone. When Melkor began plotting and singing his counter-song when Eru sung the world into existence, Melkor's dissonant singing was woven into the whole in a way that accorded with Eru's designs. Evil exists in the world as a result, but somehow it is all still just a part of Eru's broader plan. I think Tom is well aware that evil *cannot* win in the end. Evil's ultimately failure and the triumph of good is inevitable, just as the Christian Bible makes it clear that ultimately Satan will lose and God will win.]
Also, the more practical answer is that Tom may have just been a favorite character of the Tolkiens, from the "Adventures of Tom Bombadil" (which JRR Tolkien wrote in the 1930s), so he was added as fan service for them.
Really enjoyed this vid! keep up the good lore
Thank you, happy you liked it :) I try ^^
Bombadil is just evidence that it wasn't always tobacco in Tolkien's pipe.
This is the truest thing said in this comment section.
haha :D
Hmmmmm
Makes sense.
Lol
In The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings there is a distinction made between halfling leaf and tobacco
DMT my friend ask Joe rogan 😂
Another theory (My Tom Bombadil theory is lower in the forum.) --------- This may be a bit off topic but I thought you might find it interesting -------- After all these years it only hit me just the other day that the hold the ring had over people was a self-defense mechanism that was built into it. Even when Gandalf was reading Isildur's notes he came across the statement "I will risk no harm to come to the ring." (or something like that). Anyone who came under the spell of the ring did everything they could to keep it safe. Though they were doing this for themselves out of greed it was also the best way for the ring to preserve itself from destruction. So, it might be said, though Frodo was more immune to the spell it became more powerful as Frodo got closer to Mount Doom and the ring was becoming more desperate ... and became MOST desperate to save itself when Frodo was actually inside of Mount Doom. Then it exerted its full power and even Frodo fell under its thrall. [EDIT] Also, I thought it was a bit unrealistic that Golum did not burn to death horribly when he landed in the lava. Jackson said he did not want to present such a dreadful sight to the audience .... BUT .... there is actually a logical explanation. The ring also PROTECTED the bearer as long as the bearer was devoted to it which explains the longer life each bearer had. Thus the last thing we see is Golum's hand holding the ring above the lava, but when his hand disappears he then becomes a victim of the lava and perishes but mercifully this takes place beyond the view of the audience.
He is probably another manifestation of the songs of Ainur.
I was typing this and then you mentioned this 😋
haha :D I get this a lot. Quite funny when people start to write a lengthy rant and delete or completely edit it again after finishing watching the video (sometimes I can see the original post in the notifications).
ThePhilosophersGames now I know that you know that this happens, I just type my comments and won't edit them afterwards.😅
haha :P
Tom and Sam gamgee were the only characters who could resist the call of of the power of the ring they were representive of the pure nature of those who lived within the pure nature of the world . Tolkien was trying to show us that within all the powerful characters of middle earth it was the simplest of people who overturned the dark lord.Sam Gamgee delivered the Ring to the Dark flames to be destroyed a simple lesson of goodness of human nature from a simple down to earth honest man.
Sam didn't remain un affected at all. Only Tom. Sam left for the undying lands finally ridding middle earth of its influence. Tom was the first. I reckon created by iluvitar himself.
Not true Bilbo gave it up as well
Matthew True Bilbo did give it up but not without nearly destroying his Hobbitness and also still in Rivendell he clung to the urge to retrieve the ring as described in his meeting Frodo again.Sam may have succumbed in time had it been in his hands longer but he did carry the ring into the Hold of the enemy with little effect while Gollum and Frodo were still affected to the end leaving Frodo a shadow of his self that is why he and Bilbo had to go on the grey ships with the elves.There for I still hold true to Tom and Sam being the strength and sense of the common man who suffers through life and is not bothered by shortcuts as magic power etc.
When “The Silmarillion” came out many of my fellow nerds thought it too dry, too much a history book and not enough like LOTR. Not for this history nerd: It was just what I had been waiting for. The music of the Ainur was built of a blend of themes, both of creation and of unfolding. It was begun by Iluvatar and both aided and perverted by the will of the Valar. I can easily see Tom Bombadil as a Maia who, being so enamored by the themes of the growing and forming of Arda that he was drawn there and has lived there from the beginning, choosing to watch the theme as it unfolds in real time and real life. The One Ring was made by a fellow Maia and it’s power was to control Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Of course it had no power over him, nor did he have power over it.
Hey Adrian I really liked your thoughts on this, and I find there is room for interpretation in Tokien's works though not as much as most might think. Often I feel his message is clear if ambiguous. That being said I find everything you said spot on!
P.S. I've always wanted to do some kind of Tolkien round table discussion on his works and the connections and extrapolations we could make through knowing them well. Let me know if your at all interested and perhaps we could get the Philosopher in on it!
I can't remember the name of the Vallarta in charge of forest/all growing things but could he have not been her 'eyes ' in middle earth?
Tolkien I feel needed to explore the importance of choice/free will and how necessary it is for us to be able to sin. Tom Bombadil is what the world would be like without it; beautiful but frozen in time with no possibility for change, growth or true decay and loss. So was Tom the manifestation of the first music before any discord and conflict; part of a world that by itself cannot change and so cannot reach 'perfection'. Eru had to let it grow but then knew that it would assaulted so that it could then have the chance to flourish [or die]. Is that why the ring had no power over Tom; he could not change; he just 'is' forever and lovely as that is it isn't really living.
Outstanding job and enjoyed the art
Thank you, much appreciated! Kimberly80 is a fantastic artist. I think that is my first video with her art. So happy I got her permission!
Watching this having not yet read the books, I was all aboard the Tom is Eru boat. Then you broke my heart. Haha. Fantastic video.
Thank you :)
haha sorry for that ^^ I tried to not go to hard on that theory, because I know it was popular and I wanted to encourage crafting theories, but I vastly underestimated how popular this theory is. There is sadly even a comment of Tolkien himself in one of his letters, where he denies this theory himself (maybe I should have mentioned it in the video too, back in the day I decided against it). Still it is an interesting idea and theory and there are some hints that fuel it a bit.
When you look at all of the players in these books it seem like they are the whole of a personality of one.
Tom is just a thing that's kept secret to the world. He is more of a father nature paired with Goldberry.
The giant spiders have to be another entity that was bastardized by Melkor or Sauron.
Maybe Tolkien had it in his mind to write more on those most quiet and secretive times.
A book about Tom Bombidil would be quite a story.
Wow this one was soooo so good! The analysis is detailed and thorough while the magic and mystery of Tolkien remains. Really wonderful video.
I'm soon to receive a tax rebate so I will be investing in some Kimberly80 art for sure!! Man is that lady talented. I've seen a lot of really cool manga based deviant art but she is another level. If Luthien was half as beautiful as that picture, I can appreciate why Beren went to all that hassle XD. If I can, I will mention I was sent by ThePhilosophersGames!
What is mentioned at the end of the video really resonates with me because I want to be a physicist and understand the song of our universe. This is more than likely impossible but it's fun to go on a journey of discovery with others and see where you end up!
Thank you :) Always nice to hear little stories of the viewers like this. I'm also a bit interested in Physics (esp. Astro), so I wish you all the best and success in becoming a physicist ^^
haha I know what you mean. It's also one of my favourite works of Kimberly. Mentioning me would be cool. I hope she remembers me (we don't really have contact). It was very difficult contacting her at all (I tried several times and thought I would never get an answer). She seems very busy. Happy I got the permission and I agree she is insanely talented. I hope you can contact her.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Aw thanks so much man! I love it all but I'm definitely with you, there is just something about the allure of the stars and the unknown. The picture you used at the end of the video is absolutely gorgeous.
Ah haha thanks for the heads up. I'm sure I'll get through to her eventually and for I will definitely mention I saw her artwork here first! Thanks again for the best wishes and all these lovely videos :)
Is it so far fetched to believe that not only was tom a physical representation of the valar that influecened all things to happen, hence why he takes no part in the choices made to achieve the Second Song, but that he has the power of song to influence the earth that he represents. He has fullfilled his own destiny acquiring Goldberry so they may live together to rebuild the land after the Second Song is sang, in harmony and humility, across all the lands. I am no pro at the lore but I enjoy the storytelling.
I just saw your video and I lean towards the theory that he is Eru. You mentioned why Tom wouldn’t intervene seeing how evil the ring was ibut one could also ask why Eru didn’t destroy Melkot knowing what Morgoth committed against the elves and the race of men. Eru only intervened when the Valar prayed for intervention and his action only led to Arda changing and Melkor surviving, Their action and behavior mimics one another, But no one seems to question Eru’d neutrality yet Tom is under scrutiny. Eru mentioned that Melkor’s action only made the music better. Could Tom’s neutrality and lack of understanding of the ring’s danger an extension of the idea that the chaos brought by the ring is the music still playing and perfecting itself? And warrants no attention from him? Unlike Eru, Tom mentioned his desire not to go beyond his lands. But it seems to me, Eru has done a similar thing, though not stated, by not appearing in Arda and eliminating Melkor and all things evil. I find it interesting that Tom would only be interested in the Ents after all the chaos and destruction. Why? Is it because The Ents and nature are creations of his creations. Something he did not conceive but a creation of the Music of the Ainur. I also found it interesting that a statement from Gandalf during the Council of Elrond ended the suggestion of Tom keeping the ring and yet the last person Gandalf wanted to speak with was Tom. Elrond and Galadriel have been on Middle Earth longer than Gandalf yet Gandalf seems to know a lot about him and his powers. In what situation inside the Old Forest would Tom have demonstrated his powers to give Gandalf such insight? Knowing the mission of the Istari, why would a Maiar spend so much time with an entity neither man, elf or hobbit? And in the end of War of the Ring, why have a long talk with Tom - the moss gatherer? Why talk with someone who has no interest in the conflict that just ensued? Why not treebeard? Treebeard can listen to him all day and all night unless of course it’s Eru asking his Maiar to return and report back. In conclusion, despite Tolkien’s statement (and he only made it to quell controversy), I believe that Tom is Eru based on their position of neutrality. Thank you for letting me babble :)
I agree
There was a theory that Tom was actually the physical manifestation of Eru Illuvatar enjoying his creation. Also another theory that this character was Tolkien's personifcation in his own world.
Tolkien used Beren for himself, he said multiple times that this was a reflection of his wife edith and him.
It:s even on his gravestone.
Authors don't tend to self-insert into multiple characters
I'm 99% sure Tom is Tolkien.
@@dominicomegon4714 would be strange if tolkien inserts himself as two characters, no?
If Tom Bombadil was Eru, that would make him eldest and fatherless.
@@robynbole5757 Of course. But that was said by Tom himself and not the all-knowing narrator. So maybe it's just his perception:.
That's like when in a comic, a character says that he's stronger than X. We do not if that is definitively true.
It is possible tom is Eru. And yes, if thats the case, he should understand how dangerous the ring is. But then again, maybe not. It is possible that Eru, being so powerful as to create the ainu, doesnt understand how a creation of his creations is different.
Its completely understandable for one so powerful to be relatively non-caring of those of lesser power than himself. This could also explain why the ring doesnt effect him, but he can effect it (turning it invisible).
Also, him being Eru and not helping could be explained as no one, even the maier and valar know that Eru spends time in middle earth. And perhaps Eru wants to helps, but in such a way as to not outcast his children (melkor or sauron) by actively destroying them. If this is true, then it is possible that Gandalf just believes that Tom doesnt have the power to destroy it, as he wouldnt know that his father is physically present in middle earth.
Of course, it could also be said that Gandalf does know that tom is Eru (he will fall, last as he was first). But perhaps he also knows that tom/eru wants to stay out of the conflict, so as to not outcast/alienate his children if either side. Thereby lying and saying that he can't, when in truth, he simply wont.
I'm becoming persuaded that Tom is Eru. 'He is' tracks with 'I AM'. He has power via music. He is invulnerable and benevolent. Fatherless and first. But the item that convinces me is that he has set bounds beyond which he will not go, until a time to come. Gandalf is thinking in terms of landscape, but it can mean his power and action, too. This tracks with the Christian God, Who chooses to restrain Himself from overt presence or direct engagement, until a time to come. The self-restriction makes the whole thing make sense.
Props for Kimberley 80's beautiful portraits - the very best Tom imo. And yes, you got 'realm' right.
I always thought that Tom was the physical manifestation of ardas part in the ainulindale, which is why he came into being with the physical world and will probably die with it. His wife is the physical manifestation of the beauty of nature within that world which is why he loves her most.
I think of Tom as the kind of opposite to the mysterious deep ones. Perfect harmonies created Tom!
That is a really interesting thought. They also share this mystic component.
I remember coming across an interesting explanation for Tom in a book I read through in a cafe/used bookstore that is long gone. Can't remember the title, but it essentially homes in on this: The Lord of the Rings is a book, at its most reduced core, about the encroachment of new western civilization, being modernity and industrialization, on the old one, being the pastoral world, the simpler, more communal country world Tolkien grew up in. You can see that in his love of trees, nature, the old English way of life, systematically changed for the worse by people that think with wheels and fire, to misquote Treebeard. Bombadil is less a figure of textual lore and more a poetic expression. Namely that of his poetic ideal of the English farmer, a steward and master of the country side living in bliss and harmony, in a simpler and purer state where corruption could not touch you. Bombadil wears the characteristic clothes and colours of a specific regional English farmer group Tolkien would have been familiar with, the book pointed out. Bombadil existed as his child's toy and likely a poem before LOTR was written. So what is he? I think he's a poem and song first, a symbol second, and lastly, something that exists beyond even the lore of LOTR.
Yes agreed. If we leave the pure lore level, I would also say that this is the most likely theory and Tom Bombadil is also probably impossible to really fit into the lore.
Tolkien wrote in letter 19:
"Do you think Tom Bombadil, the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside, could be made into the hero of a story?"
Which fits that quite well. I actually wonder why I did not include it in the video 😅
I know I researched a ton more things about Tom, but many did not make it into the video. i think I wanted to focus on the lore side, but in retrospect, I maybe should have included it.
Good work
Thank you ^^ That was fast :P
When I first read TLotR at age thirteen Tom Bombadil was an unwanted distraction from what I had expected to be essentially a D&D-esque "quest". (It all eventually sunk in, fortunately.)
He always fascinated me, but I understand what you mean. He seems really outside of the story and you also want to know where the adventure actually takes the hobbits (I like the D&D comparison ^^).
Kimberly did some awesome artwork! I love those portraits.
Yes they are really beautiful. So happy I can use them in my videos :)
Very good!
Thank you :)
He seems like a version of the green man / green knight / man of the woods, with a touch of Nietzsche, who somehow manages to undermine the black and white moral conflict of the main narrative, whilst also providing a shining example of what the other characters strive to preserve or destroy. He doesn't altogether fit in, because he has been lifted from the earlier book, which is one of the reasons why he is so interesting.
Another very informative video. 💪🏽
Thank you :)
it was such a great video! very thought-provoking! and i'm always impressed with how much time and research is done to compile your videos! i remember that in the chapter ainulindale of the silmarillion there were 3 iterations of the world-building song by eru iluvatar. the first two themes were essentially scrapped because melkor's disharmonious struggle for power and individual mastery over arda ruined the themes. what if these nature spirits like ungoliant, shelob, the river-daughter, goldberry, and tom bombadil are remnants from these old themes that persisted into the creation of arda, thus not really having their own importance in the world except in their own right? it might explain a level of neutrality as beings outside the final song of life as well as his being eldest or fatherless since he was sung into arda before melkor and other valar decided to live in arda. this is all very non-canon speculation i know but it was just an idea you made me think of.
VERY good and I Iiked how you stated very fairly that this issue would NOT be solved and that you could've just said "thank you for watching." Very funny and also very true! I watched and you did a super job! Hey about Old Man Willow, I once thought he was simply an evil-hearted Huorn but have since changed my mind. Yes, there could be Ents here and there in big forests and, like you pointed out, Sam referenced one early in Fellowship. However, I think that when Merry and Pipping spent all that time with Treebeard, if they thought that Old Man Willow had been a Huorn, they'd have pointed that out. They didn't at least not that we know. Anyway, just my small point on that. About Tom and Goldberry, after reading the Silmarillion, I had once had the Aule and Yavanna theory as I think most people do at some point. After thinking about for MANY years, I finally Tom Bombadil, his wife that seems much like a Tolkien Naiad of sorts, The River Man, and Old Man Willow are just meant to stay mysteries that Tolkien put in there never to be solved. Maybe spirits of nature that we never find out much about in LoTR. I really liked your video and it will always be fun to think about these kinds of things!
Tom Bombadil is like Pop in the Luke Cage series, his home is a sanctuary inside the awfulness of the surrounding neighborhood and no one would dare mess with him because of the deep respect the community has for him. Pop is old, so old he knew the other main characters in the story when they were children. Not even the big villain would dare attack the old man, even mourns Pop's eventual death. Pop has ultimate power within his sanctuary, he is immune to external vises, he is able to negotiate with the main villain on equal terms while in his sanctuary, he could play with the idea of expanding his power/influence but he has no desire/need/use for it.
I like the idea, as you said, of Tom being a trapped soul. Pop is trapped in Harlem, in a way, out of a sense of obligation to his community. He could not move on/out, he would lose the deep connection, the roots, he has already established.
Anyway, that's the kind of character I think he is.
He is Father Time. Evident by his connection to timing/music. His wife is Mother Nature.
the strange thing is that scientist are finding ut now that the universe has a resonance and all atoms need to align to it to exist in the universe. Resonance is the base feature for the concept of music.
If you want to know the inner workings of the universe you need to think in frequencies- Nikolai Tesla
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow! Bright Blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow!
I think this line I will never forget ^^
Some of the artwork is very inspiring.
Happy to hear ^^ I'm very glad Kimberly80 did so many Tolkien related paintings and allowed me to use her art works. She is so good. Link to her gallery: www.deviantart.com/kimberly80
This video found its way to me in the most perfect time!
My thoughts on Tom is pretty simple. I feel he isn't Eru, Tolkien, The reader, an Ainu, or spirit. I like the song theory but I feel Tolkien wanted to put something fantastic... even more so. Tolkien has a reason for practically everything. But you and others have said this and Tolkien himself has said this so its nothing new. So I guess what I wrote is kind of cheap. Here is what I believe. Tom is part of Arda but on his own. Maybe like a beta test. Eru created life and may have wanted to see how it works without interference. That or he is a different story in Arda. Not everything has to be about what we know. Maybe my thoughts on Tom isn't that simple after all.
I like to think that during one of the themes the Ainur were singing. One Ainur sang about a silly man dancing in the forest. Eru heard the song, and because everything that was song was made to be. We have Tom.
Happy to hear :) Tom is on my mind for a long time too (I think i announced this video February, took some time ^^)
That's an interesting theory - the beta test. It fits the determinism. Tom must be the way he is, because that is what he was intended for.
haha yes that's a funny thought too ^^
what if he was Jesus
@@madcircle7311 I like this (a Jesus-like manifestation) too, but don't say it too loudly. It is NOT a popular theory.
Tom Bombadil reminds me of an ancient Tao master. He is a hermit who has turned his back on ordinary life, gave up on having things and ambitions for power and influence, living deep inside nature, observing and not interfering, and living life like he pleases with a fearless attitude and an indestructible good mood.
I think Tom is another Form or a simpler form of Eru Iluvatar, he doesn't want to really involve himself to deeper into the matters of his creatures ,just gives a little guidance or aide.
Trees and other plants feature great deal in Tolkien books. The White Tree, The Silver Tree, the Leaves of Lothrowren and Fangorgone Forrest . This is because England, used to be huge forrest with trade been done on rivers and the cost even town and villages were by rivers or ear forrest.
I have a question, but first thanks so much for bringing up that Tom referencing Morgoth's descent to Arda could mean his return after the first war. "He knew the dark under the stars before..." - well, there were no stars there when some Ainur entered the universe that was utterly featureless. Tom could have been there before the stars, but the oldest memory he recounts includes stars. That's a point why it confuses me that so many people who refute the idea that he'd be an Ainubseem to eagerly assume that Tom is at least as old as the universe itself.
My burning question related to this featureless universe is as followed 🌌 Why do people assume that the Ainulindale created anything?? I am currently rereading the Silmarillion and I understood the music to be a blueprint for Eä. The universe is created after the music stops and as mentioned, it's completely empty, and all its later features like stars and planet Arda are built by the Valar. So I understood the music was merely an inspiration for the Valar's projects and a forebearer though not causer of the arrival of Ilúvatar's children. So why do people ascribe creative powers to the music of the Ainur?
I heard there is a passage in Morgoth's Ring stating that the discord in the music created evil beings on earth beyond Melkor's control. But is that canon? If the music did create life, then it seems to manifest time-delayed. Or perhaps it only forms the spiritual plane including the spirits of later elves and men, and physical objects and bodies have to be manually created by the Valar and Eru. What do you think?
By the way, I disagree with this widespread notion that Tom was neutral. Hosting and saving a ringbearer and destroying evil spirits makes him less neutral than say the men of Bree or most hobbits of the Shire.
Yes you are right. Comparing the music with a blueprint that Eru brought to existence is a more precise description of what happened. I guess sometimes people take short cuts to explain things (me often too). As a result this gets confused. Still the music was the blueprint for what exists. Reality follows the development of that music to some degree. One could say Eru manifested the music in reality. As a result the music is more than just music if that makes sense.
How canon Morgoth's Ring or parts out of it are, is really hard to say. Most things in there were work in progress. I think though that the idea of the dissonance makes sense, because music also needs dissonance at the right places which is then resolved again. This is a main motive for what happens in Arda harmony -> conflict -> conflict gets resolved -> repeat
Music is also bound to time. It starts and goes on and ends at some point. At the beginning Arda was a barren and fiery ball and only became how we imagine it, after the labours of the Ainur (bound to Arda) forming it. Maybe they follow the Blueprint or just are part of the music now (as they were bound to Arda). I could imagine the latter. When you create new music it I think can include something of yourself and so also a part of the Ainur is in the music if that makes sense.
Also thank you ^^
PS: It seems some starts existed that ere not made by Varda. I remember some details in the texts, that she added stars, but stars were mentioned before she started with this.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Dankeschön : ) Ich bin übrigens aus der Schweiz, schreibe hier aber lieber auf Englisch.
I've watched your video on canon in Tolkien's world afterwards. I guess you base your interpretation on your extended readings. Like I mentioned, the Silmarillion more or less allows the interpretation that the music and Ea are seperated entities without causal relationships. But I guess I can't really hold that conclusion any longer because it is probably more based on gaps in the text (as you explained in your other video, even the Silmarillion is quite work in progress) than what Tolkien really wanted to convey.
I'd say the Valar are driven by the intentions they announced in their music, but that they still have some degree of possibility to alter their individual course when on Arda.
However I think the sparse passages concerning the creation of animals, dwarves, and so on read to me like the Valar created bodies and Eru created their spirit or sent one from the timeless halls. That seems to be something different than entities coming into being the moment their musical piece is activated - would that be the case for Elves and Men? My examples were maybe not part of the music, Eru seems to be surprised that Dwarves would be part of the story.
I usually had this image that a direct intervention by Eru, his touch, would be needed to infuse a body with sentience, and that this act would be distinct from the music. So I can accept the idea that the music drives the action of the Valar broadly spesking, the forces of nature and the passing of time. But I'm not convinced yet that the music can create conscious life like Tom Bombadil. It just seems to violate this privilege of Eru to create that; I mean, it is implied in theories on Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant that they were accidentally created, as an unexpected side-effect. And that for me does not really fit well with the other knownnexamples: 1) Ainur were created directly by Eru, perhaps also through music that contains something of him. 2) Elves and men were created by Eru as part of the music only he composed, and possibly he gave them a soul through other means than the music of the Ainur. 3) Dwarves are an ad-hoc creation probably beyond the original music, also seeming to come to life by other means than music itself. 4) Now if the necessity of music for intelligent life is questionable and Eru's will seems to be the critical factor here, why should the Ainulindale have the power to create Tom Bombadil?
As you have mentioned in the video (and thanks for that - your reasoning is stronger in its logic than most other commenters I've heard, most seem to not distinguish firmly enough between free association and logical deduction), the weak spot of this theory is that is has no confirmed precedence. I think people dig it because it's the best fit for Tom's attribute "fatherless". However, that is an attribute the Elves gave him, not what he himself ever states.
Now I kind of like the idea that Eru created Tom as he is for no special purpose or an unknown one, because that comes with less adventurous assumptions. But applying Ockham's Razor to the world of Arda may be overly conservative 🤣
My impression was that Tom Bombadil must be a God : one of The Valar in disguise, maybe. Also, Mr. Tolkien has added himself into the story, as Tom. I like the idea that Tom Bombadil is actually Tulkas.
I think Tom is like ungoliant, a primordial being outside the creation of the ainur.
My guess is that Tom is the physical embodiment of Eru Iluvatar.
Iluvatar was described as "the one" which sounds very similar to Tom's description of himself.
However that description as being the first could also refer to the first of the Valar: Melkor himself. an argument could also be made that his location and lifestyle in the forest meant that he was the physical form of Orome and Goldberry was his wife Vala, however Orome was fond of the hunt and was described as a horse rider but also the lord of the forest, Vana was ever young and queen of the pastures
Thanks for the nice video. On the subject there are some very plausible hypothesis. I like to imagine Tolkien grinning for having given generations of lore nerds like us so many juicy topics to discuss ;)
Thank you too :) Yes he definitely inspired generations, which only few writers can say. He can be proud of his work. It also connects people.
Well said, so true.
Yes, I will go with you on the final one. It has been quite a while since I read the Simerilian
Tom Bombadil was one of the first created by Eru along with the Ainur. Whereas the Ainur could mould and shape Eru's vision, Tom Bombadil is beyond any change and timeless just like the Ainur. Since Tom Bombadil is timeless and changeless and always sings, he thus represents one of the purest forms of the spiritual song which helped to create Arda. Tom Bombadil is the last trace of the original universe- the one that was formless and full of song.
I like the Aulë/Yavanna theory despite the flaws in logic. There's a passage describing Yavanna in The Silmarillion that sounds nearly identical to the hobbits seeing Goldberry before they depart to the Downs, complete with the wind of Manwë and the crown of the Sun. So even though the logic that Tom is Aulë can be a stretch at times, I do believe Goldberry is Yavanna.
Tom Bombadil was Tolkien putting *Himself in the story; the Epitome of everything Tolkien liked. Simple, Happy, Carefree, Nature.
Come hither take a toke, to make us giggle,gag and choke. Hither now smoke a pipe, to turn our brains to cheese and tripe.
Awesome theory! I like your style, man.
6:43 also, I'm the original Kool Aid man.
Lol ♥
haha thank you Tom :D
I always pictured Tom looking like "jiggle Billy" from aqua teen hunger force with a blue hat
Come on y'all commence the bombidillo!
Tom is the equaivalent in the Tolkien universe of the Green Man, the mysterious personification of nature that medival Europeans worshipped.
Medival Europeans where Christian, they didn't worship any king of spirits or other things, the green man was just a recurring element in their art. Saing that they worshipped it is like saing that we worship anliens because they are present in our movies, books, paintings and songs
@@telson1583 There was always a mixture of paganism and Christianity in medieval rituals and religious sites. It's sophistry not to call that worship.
Further to my Bombadil is Melkors imprisonment; just after the rescue from the barrow, Tom selects a jewelled brooch as his 'loot', and he stared into the jewels as though 'grasping for/lost in a memory' (my paraphrasing). It feels rather silmarillonish. Add the fact that is emotipnally 'bound' by his love for Goldberry, AND physically bound geographically, and then add in all the emphasis on singing, both from him and Old Man Willow. It's got to be a plausible origin.
Another very interesting video. How can 30 people dislike this???
There's always the probability of people don't liking a video. Some may dislike my voice, the rolled Rs, the way I talk, maybe they are unhappy with the content, had a bad day, etc. But a dislike is still an interaction, so it's good for my video. You get used to it.
Nice video, lad. Bombadil and Radagast both remind me of the Gaulish Forest God Cernunnos, what with how they both seem so thoroughly engulfed by nature. Makes sense with Radagast, I suppose, given his origins.
Thank you :) Yes there could be some inspiration from there (looked a bit into it for this video, but not enough), sadly my knowledge is very limited in this area of mythology. Need to change this ^^ (I think we talked about the celtic mythology some comments ago too)
I recall that as well. Can’t really blame ye for not knowing about Celtic mythology. Doesn’t quite have the popularity of Nordic and Greek myth. I only know it because I’m a Celtic polytheist myself, tae be honest.
My only BIG disappointment with LOTR was leaving out Tom Bombadil/Goldberry out. I loved this part of the story as it was magical and I thought of Tom's home as a safe refuge. I thought maybe the extended version would add them...nope. Salt in the would that they later added BS characters in The Hobbit like Tauriel and her "hot dwarf". Barf!!!
The lotr movies ratchet up the drama . If there was a safe haven it hurts the urgency of the quest.
Sounds like he was wholly pure and entirely free. Maybe synonymously antipodal to the conflicting powers of Middle Earth. The Hobbits' encounter with him may have been a necessary fortification for their mission ahead.
my guess about the true nature of Tom Bombadill, Goldberry, the River-Woman (Tom´s mother-in-law) and former Old Willow Man´s form, was that all of them were nature spirits or Maiar on the same level as Gandalf, the other Istari , the Balrog and Sauron himself. Or well mostly a Maiar, but also particulary on himself an embodiment of Illuvatar to enjoy and observe the Middle Earth too.
Bombadil is readable as a diminutive of 'bombax', a tropical tree; or bombyx, the silk moth.
In the book it's remarked "in the borders he set for himself, and he will not leave them" he's only limited to that forest by his own choosing. Makes it seem like he has power wherever he goes, he's choosing to remain there, his power isn't bound to it nor does he only necessarily represent that specific place alone.
Yes he set the borders for himself, but why would Eru do that? What was his intention and didn't the world need god?
Are you saying Bombadil is God? Just commenting in the video it sounded like you were implying he was bound by something other than his own choosing to the borders of his forest, when it seems like Bombadil set the limits himself. I'm no Tolkien scholar, just commenting the two things sounded different.
Oh sorry I thought you implied or responded to Tom is Eru theory, because I remember talking about the borders in this section (and I get this theory a lot in the comments). But you did not. My mistake.
Not sure anymore how I phrased it in the video, but ofc you are right, he set the borders for himself.
Quickly skimming therough the script I only found: "Tom is master and also does what he wants in his own borders too."
So if I phrased it imprecise somewhere else, this should give it the needed context.
np mate :D You know more about this stuff than I do lol Just noticed that and decided to comment for clarities sake.
He set the boundaries for himself because that is where Goldberry lives.