Subaru Engine Killer!
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- Does your Subaru engine crankshaft rattle on a cold start? Oil filters will lose oil overnight if they are upside down! Next morning start rattling is the sound of your engine dying! Can easily be checked by no rattling on hot engine start. Don’t use anything other than an anti drain back oil filter on your Subaru engine if the oil filter location is on top. 90% of engine wear is on start up!
Such an important element for the engine should be part of the filter housing and not depend on whether the filter you buy includes it or not.
Yes, I agree.
The rattling noise on start up is the timing chain tensioner (there are two). They rely on engine oil pressure and take a second or two to pressurise. Not an issue.
After your car sits overnight take the oil filter off and you will see it will be completely empty. It will need to refill again before you get any oil pressure
I disagree, I can hear the crank rotation with no oil, it’s not a timing chain sound. Or is this another fault Subaru have added to the growing list? BTW, why would any timing chain rattle on start… no oil pressure from crap filter design. There a millions of vehicles out there with timing chains… they don’t rattle on start. Thx
Haven’t seen any oil filter without an anti drain back valve…
When you pull your filter after overnight and it has zero oil in it, you can pretty much assume it’s not working. Not all filters hold oil overnight, that’s my point. Some will work fine with a warm engine restart, but some bleed out overnight and that’s when your engine cops a beating! Thx
Word of advice, only use genuine Subaru Oil filters 👍
WIX filters are just as good my bro as long as you are religious with oil changes. Do you know something I don't know 👀 ?
@@R00567 i prefer to use Genuine parts.With never a problem doing so.👍
Subaru doesn't make oil filters.. Jokes on you
The “safe” way is paying for OEM; it’s not the only or “best” way.
These days it seems the price gap is narrowing though.
@@TTime685 i have only ever used Genuine Subaru oil filters (black) from my Authorised Subaru dealer 👍
The oil filter has a threaded hole in the middle of the base to screw it to the engine. The little holes encircling the center threaded hole are where the oil enters the filter. You should see a rubber diaphragm behind all those little holes. The oil pump pushes the oil through those little holes and lifts the rubber diaphragm open allowing the oil to fill the filter. That rubber diaphragm is your anti-drain back valve. It prevents the oil from draining back to the sump thus emptying the filter.If the little holes don't have any diaphragm behind them, then you have no anti drain back valve.
Good reply, only thing is, some inferior brands leak down overnight leading to your engine running dry for a few seconds! Seems to me Subaru had a good design with it on the bottom of the engine. Why change something that works? Thx for your input
@@ygtotbj I think for a few reasons they changed the location of the oil filter to the top of the engine. For one, it's easier to change the filter. For two, it gets really hot down there by the exhaust system and can contribute to higher oil temperatures. I have also heard of damage to the oil filter from flying rocks or road debris. The filters are pretty small for an engine that size, and some people are putting slightly longer filters in such as the RX-8 filter which makes the problem even worse. You can still prefill the filter, but you must hold your finger over the center hole and quickly get the filter on the threads to prevent loss of oil.
Even with a drain back valve the oil will flow through the filter and back down the center hole. Take your filter off after sitting all night and it will be empty. Even with a drain back valve. Upside down filter was a serious engineering fuckup by Subaru.
I have a 2023 forester and on some startups I hear a light rattle/clack light it’s running dry. As a mechanic it bothered to heck out of me and I knew it was because of that upside down filter. Good info!
Thank you for your comments. I had a 2004 Toyota Prado with 3.0 1KZTE engine before buying this Forester. It to had an upside down filter. Every time I changed the filter, oil would pour out into the drain collector and then out the bottom drain line. This told me that this filter was always primed. Not so with many filters fitted to Subarus! BTW, the Toyota Prado or whatever other name they call them around the world is good for 1 million kms before an engine replacement.😀
Same in the winter time I'll use clear flood mode for a couple of seconds.
Not a Suby guy but good info for the unwary and it certainly makes sense.
Never cheap out on oil filters or oil. Also be diligent on your oil changes. Doing small stuff like this will make your engines last twice as long OR longer.
What's a couple dollars more on an oil filter compared to the price of a new engine?
Yes, if you can get a Subaru dealer near you to open on Saturday?
This is new to me. I haven't had a car with an oil filter screw from the top. I usually have then screw from the bottom or from the side. If i ever get to own a subaru with this type, this will help. 👍
@@euroker05 our 05 Toyota 4Runner with a V6 also has the oil filter on top.
The turbo engines are more traditional in that the filters are only accessible from the underside of the vehicle. The N/A's sure look convenient to oil change though, lol.
Edit to add: In both cases its worth it to go out of your way and get OEM Roko oil filters, made in Japan. They are pretty easy to track down online and while they are usually smaller than most US filters their filter medium quality exceeds ours and they are, again by virtue of being OEM, quite literally engineered for the engines.
@@craigstege6376 FA24 have top filters
Every oil filter has an anti- drain back valve in 2024, Word of advice for Subarus use the OEM filter as the Subaru filter has a different bypass pressure setting.
Not all filters are created equal! It would seem I’m not the only person who has had the exact fault reading through these comments. Some filters don’t hold the oil overnight even though they are advertised as anti drain back filters. Thx
@@ygtotbj You are arguing about nothing. Checking the valve takes a few seconds. Install only those filters which have a 100% good valve. But I highly doubt the problem you are trying to solve is the valve.
Nope not every filter
@@ygtotbj well then dont say "you need an oil filter with an anti drain back valve". Literally states on the SCA website that it does have what youre talking about, instead tell everyone in the video that you need a "high quality" oil filter that will actually hold oil.
@@190daes OK, mate. Making people aware was my intention. Being word perfect is yours. Congrads
I remember back in the 70's, the toyota corona with the 22R engine i think it was had a anti drain back tube in the oil filter housing for this very reason, i remember a lot of people removed them
I have 1978 Corona and never heard of that issue, haven’t had an issue other with oil pressure
What was the reason people were removing them, if you recall? Seems like a weird thing to do, can't imagine it would increase performance.
Outside of North America the correct oil filter for a new engine is a Subaru 15208aa160. If it was a 2012 engine it could also use a 15208aa130 that was only for 2011 and early 2012. Both have anti-drain back valves. And both are great filters. The 2011 and 2012 also had timing chain tensioners that were changed in later model years and it would be similar to what you described.
The engine stopped making the start up rattle after I changed the filter for an anti drain back type. Also, the noise was not a timing chain, you could literally hear most rotating components running dry for a second or two. Not all of after market filters that claim to have anti drain back internal valves actually work! The video is to make people aware that they may very well be killing there engines during start. Thanks for your comments. Cheers
I don't think it was the filter. These engines had an oild consumption issue. We wound up with a free new short block at 70K due to this issue. We only used OEM filters.
Yes, these engines had a factory ring problem, my point is that this is a new engine slowly being killed again by shit oil filters. Thx
@@echardcore good idea to stick with OEM filters if you've got a warranty going.
My 2012 Forester burns a little oil between changes but it will gulp it if I drive above 70 mph for long periods of time or use the manual mode of the transmission to engine (compression) brake. It has 135k miles (217k km) on it currently. I have to check the oil at least every fill up just to make sure I don’t kill the engine. Going from 0W-20 to 5W-30 has helped a lot also but the temps never stay below freezing for long in the winter where I live so thinner oil is not really needed.
I’m fairly sure, my engine was one of the years affected by the low tension compression ring saga. It seemed to be a fad with car manufacturers around 2008 and onwards for a few years. Toyota also had an engine recall for high oil consumption. Now they have gone back to the engineering designs of the 70’s that was common sense. It makes you wonder who, in these large and respected automotive manufacturers thought low tension compression rings was a good idea? Really…. Oh, here’s another great idea, let’s put the oil filter upside down but no check valve in the system to keep it primed!
Thank you for saving my engine too~
No worries mate
The filter isn't the issue here it's just Subaru's inheritantley bad design. The Supercheap filter fitted in this video has an anti drain back valve. You're always going to have 0 oil pressure at initial start for a second or 2. This is why taxis last so long, they're nearly always running.
The early fb25 engines from about 2011 to 2013 in the forester are notorious for burning oil. I suspect it has to do with the low friction piston ring design. I don't know for sure what causes it, but they are known for having oil consumption issues. The most common failure is just oil starvation. You have to keep an eye on the oil level, you can't just wait until it's time to change the oil. I actually also have a 2012 forester that I got used for about the same price as you and I was pretty happy to get it for that price. I kept oil in it but it ended up developing a bad misfire that kept getting worse and worse. It ended up having pie cut shaped hot spots burnt out of the exhaust valves in two different cylinders. I don't know if that was related to the oil consumption issue. I ended up swapping in a used fb20 from an impreza, which are not prone to the same oil consumption problems. it's pretty close to the same motor except a little smaller displacement, and it has VVT on the exhaust, which there's no provisions for with the forester ecu and harness (loom)
Thanks mate, it seems these engines are prone to a number of OEM induced manufacturing design flaws! After producing the EJ series of engines for over 30 plus years, you would of thought Subaru would have known how to make the worlds most reliable engine! Unfortunately not. Your story, like so many, is one of an engine change. My 07 Outback is still running sweet with 245kms on her.
According to SCA’s website the 079 filter does have a silicone anti drain back valve too. The engine may just rattle on start up. My Toyota 2jz sure did from 74k miles to 238k miles when I sold it. Engine was solid, it just rattled initially.
Engine rattling on start up, not for me, no oil pressure for 1-2 seconds, not for me, expensive overhaul, not for me $$$$!
@@ygtotbjMy point was that the oil filter you removed had the anti drain back feature.
My 2jz was probably piston slap not oil pressure related. I agree no oil pressure is bad but also remember it will take a second or so to start building oil pressure.
@@briantii All I know is filter I’m using now holds the oil pressure on start after overnight standing. For me, it’s not about brand but what, in the real world works. Thanks for your comments.
@@ygtotbj Ah well that's good then. Must have been defective after all "SCA = Super Cheap Auto" right? 😂
@@briantii lmao, my point exactly. It makes it seem like in the video that he's calling out SCA and saying that the brand is shit, when in reality he just needs to say "buy a high quality oil filter".
if it's that important, why wouldnt subaru just put a check valve in the oil pump/feed line.... I have an FA20DIT and this is not a concern on that engine (same exact filter placement)
I don’t know why, maybe they don’t care, or maybe the factory fitted filter is the correct one and people are fitting the incorrect filter. I do know that 90% of engine wear is during a start. Having no oil feed for a second or to will definitely reduce engine life big time. Thx for your comments.
because they don't think people are stupid enough to save 5$ on a filter?
The FA20 oil filters DO also have anti drain back valves. You had better make sure any aftermarket filters you use have them. Personally, I only use OEM or WIX.
You don’t need oil until the engine is hot, under load, or both.
just use the OEM filters, they are not expensive, but you don't need to care will it break anything or not
Wait not all oil filters have anti-drainback valve? Why are there oil filters that doesnt have it? Isnt it like a safety feature to make sure the oil circuit is primed with oil?
No, unfortunately many automotive suppliers still use the older part number oil filter for the ej25 series engines. These models have a timing belt with filter underneath the engine so is always full of oil. Models with the filter on top (timing chain) engines need an anti drain back filter. And there goes thousands of miles/ kilometers of engine wear every time you start that engine!
@@ygtotbjthis is interesting. didn’t know that.
@@ygtotbjYou can also use clear flood mode starting to prime the oiling system until the oil pressure light goes off, then release accelerator and start like normal. This should be part of your oil change routine anyways.
Don't most oil filters have anti drain back valves?
No, not all. If you use the part numbers used for the EJ25 engines (filter underneath, it doesn’t require anti drain back as it’s always full of oil. Don’t use this on top upside down!
Ehh, 190,000km is about right for those motors. Most I’ve seen fail at 100-150k but sure there are always those oddballs that go 300k, probably paid attention to oil, used the right filter, and didn’t beat on it. Subaru owners are as clueless as Kia owners about maintenance.
Regular oil changes and good coolant will keep them going a long time. And yes, I agree, if you rev the crap of it and don’t keep up the maintenance it won’t last. I’ve seen a few Foresters here in Aus 2012 with $500000 kms. So they can get there if you look after them.
Cheers
I have a 2012 with 174000 km, and it is still running smooth. Apart from the standard valve cover oil leak, very minimal. If you respect the maintenance they last and won't let you down.
Im pretty sure all filters at least here in the us have anti drain back valve systems in one form or another some better than others sure but they have them
It was happening to this engine in the morning when the car had been left overnight. This was making the engine wear factor even worse, as when the engine is cold the Subaru ECU high idle auto choke kicks in and revs are high with no oil feed for 2 seconds. Not good!
The only Subaru killer is itself!
I change my own oil but use only Subaru OE oil filters.
The rattle at startup sounds like the engine timing chain tensioner.
Went away when I changed the filter 😀
Would a hubbs oil filter work? Been eyeing it for a while now.
Just by a oem filter then
don’t all oil filters have this feature? My Hyundai does I think.
Depends if you are using factory filters or the correct alternative part number. Also, if you filter is on top of your engine. An engine rattle on start might be a hint!
What’s so difficult about designing an engine with the filter adapter pointing straight down?! Subaru has it upside down, others sideways or at some cockeyed angle.
The older Volvo 240's had goofy filter set-up.
BUT, I won't say anything bad about them, my old wagon had well over 300,000 miles with not a single engine issue.
OIL IS THE LIFEBLOOD OF ANY VEHICLE!
Yep, nice dog pic btw 😀
One more comment about your 90% of engine wear on start up. Though generally it's correct but it happens not because of the oiling problem. When you start a cold engine the water condenses and as a result of it acids form on the cylinder walls. You can't fix it and can't avoid it by selecting a "better" filter or a "better" oil. The crankshaft bearings are not affected because they don't contact the acids and can last forever. If it was a lack of lubrication on start up the bearings would suffer the most but they don't.
Completely disagree. Try listening to your engine running dry for 2 seconds on startup when cold. An incorrect filter will wear and kill your engine over multiple cold starts. Thx
@@ygtotbj My engine is 11 years old. Still alive and doesn't consume a drop of oil over my 25000 kms drain intervals.
No engine is “dry” on startup. Ever get oil on your hands and try to wipe it off without soap? Same thing happens to everything in the engine. The clattering you hear on startup is the valve rockers before oil pressure gets to the rocker shaft. Those aren’t “dry” either, they have a residual film of oil on them so they won’t be damaged by running for the two seconds it takes for the oil to get there. Maybe I missed it in the video but what damage did the engine have before you bought it? I guarantee it wasn’t from an oil filter but a lack of maintenance
It’s difficult to hear you over the wind noise.
What I’m trying to say in the video is that unfortunately this is a shit Subaru design. They have really screwed up filter design by not using a check valve to stop oil draining out of your filter overnight. If you can hear an engine rattle on start up when the engine is cold that goes away when starting a hot engine, then this is what I’m talking about in this video. Thanks
I been complaining about this since day one with my outback..
I do run an oil filter with anti drain back and the filter is empty after sitting all night.
Even with a drain back valve the oil runs back into the engine through the center hole.
It’s a very poor design. Subaru engineers need a kick in the balls to be this stupid.
There is no filter out there that will stop flow back. Period…
Yes, I think you are right. The young Japanese engineer fresh from Uni who designed this oil system clearly had no one in quality check his work. It is beyond stupidity that this design exists. I put it up there with Boeings MCAS design.
Your oil drains forward through the crankshaft bearings. The oil system is pretty much always empty after the cars has been sitting for 30 minutes or more. And nothing happens to millions of vehicles. The anti drain back valve just keeps the pump primed.
Maybe, but not all filters hold the oil overnight. I went through two that didn’t and was told they were the correct part numbers. The 3rd fixed the problem.
@@ygtotbj My filters are always empty when i remove them 20-30 minutes after shutting off the engine. And are full after 5 minutes. It's easy to see on a Subaru engine when you unscrew the filter. So the anti drain back doesn't help in this regard and doesn't keep the oil inside the filter. Also you can easily check if your ADBV works before installing the filter. You don't need to try many filters. Just check if it works.
I just wasted 1:55 minutes of my life....every oil filter has anti-drain valve in it and Subaru's filter are made by Fram
No they don’t, some will leak out overnight. If you look at my short video you will see me removing a filter after over night. No oil in it. My Toyota 1kzte engine filters would always leak a lot of oil out into the drain when removing them. Proof that they always held oil and oil light would go out straight away. Not so with all Subaru oil filters. Thx
The fram ones are the blue ones. Here in the great white north (Canada), we have the Subaru black version. Which is the JDM version.
@@ygtotbjall oil filters pointed downwards will lose all their oil even with an anti drain ack valve. It aint a tight seal. Open one up
Thats why I only use Japanese OEM oil filters.
Yeah you can go to any dealership and get an oem subaru filter for like 7$ and the oem oil as well if you want
Unfortunately cost about $30 for the OEM filters in Aus 🤦♂️
@ygtotbj Dang you can get them here in the US for around 15 bucks.
@@dorianleclair7390 ... Auzzie dollars vs US dollars. Some ppl also use the Mazda RX-8 filters, but since it is another OEM piece, it too is probably pricy unless you go third party like Ryoco
anti-drain valve does nothing for this engine, the anti-drain direction is the same as the flow direction. The only way is to do long crank (20 sec) everytime the engine has been sit for more than 12 hrs. Starter is cheap in this situation.
Ok, so how do you stop the ECU fueling and ignition the cylinders without lifting the hood/ bonnet and removing coil lead? Thanks
@@ygtotbj depress accelerator FULLY during the startup, engine will crank only, as soon as you let go, it will fire up. works for subaru, mazda, and nissan. This method DOES NOT work for toyota. The toyota will rev its bean out at startup if you do this. Hope it helps.
@@ygtotbj Different oil weight also change the crank time. on 0w20 oil, the engine used to take 34 sec (3 cranks) to turn off the low oil pressure indicator. the time shortened to about 26 sec with 5w30. but it's not necessary to crank till the light went off though.
That even looks like the wrong filter on the car. Correct filter is smaller in diameter. Can't read the number on it. It looks like a 6 cylinder filter.
You could be right, I gave the auto parts shop my VIN and that’s what I got. It has however, solved my problem of no oil feed at startup after sitting overnight. A lot of filters with so called “built in Anti Drain Back” features will drain out overnight which is what will kill your engine slowly the next morning! Thx
I think the starter is the engine killer. If you don't want to kill your precious Subie, don't dare start it.
Good point mate 👍
if you use subaru's filter, no problem.
Oem only
this thing doesn't even have the right oil filter on if we check with napa oil filter number the one on the car is a 21334 wich goes on the 3.6 B6 engine subaru 2.0 and 2.5 need the 27055
You are keeping it?
Yes, engine has 10000 kms on it, $7k worth of rebuild.. new crank, new cases, new cams, new heads… starts nice and quiet with correct oil filter. Bargain I reckon… $5.5K 😀
original tokio roki are not hard to find..stay with those
All oil filters have anti drain back valves. Why do you silly Aussies sell ones without it?
Easy check. Look in the outer holes. If you see black rubber it has one.
That is THE worst orientation for an oil filter. Bad engineering. But, as we're finding out the past few years, bad engineering is normal for Subaru.
It does make you wonder, you still have to get underneath to drain the oil.. so why put the filter upside down on the top?
Hey my 4th gen 4runner has the filter located similar to this. Definitely less messy than upside down.
@@ygtotbjI could change my old 240 Volvo wagon from under the hood.
300,000+ miles and never touched the motor.
Just buy OEM filters man, this isn't difficult. No need to decipher things. Just buy OEM and be done.
You knew what killed the engine without seeing touching the engine. Thumbs down
Thanks mate. This wasn’t an engine overhaul video, that was done before I purchased it. Just trying to help people out on a positive vibe😀
And no prefill at the service.
@@mickbrumer you can pre-fill the filter, just stick your finger over the center hole until you get the filter lined up and right above the threaded mount. Then quickly put the filter on the threads, you may lose the small amount but not much.
what a shit design engine- but good info
Its 60 bucks at my Subaru dealership for a oil change, can't do it myself for that
Where do you live? It’s twice that in Tucson
@@garyhecksel4809Same here in S Indiana.
Bought this Forester new 3 years ago. It's one quirky vehicle!
Never had so much trouble with a new vehicle before.
We'll never buy another Subaru.
I’m driving over from Aus to your service center… might get a little wet on the way 😀
My local Subaru dealership wants over $200 for an oil change, they're rip off artists
@glennkon it cost me $73 here in Ohio for my '21 Crosstrek Limited @ the Dealership.
The advice given to me from an experienced mechanic, always, always use a genuine oil filter. You can go aftermarket on a lot of non vital parts but NEVER the oil filter.
Yes, good advice.. not always given or available from your local automotive store if no Subaru dealerships near by!
oem filters are often rebranded mainstream filters
Subaru is very good on fuel and very good in the snow but other then that i will never buy another Subaru ever why because these engines sucks they have such a poor engine design and they leak oil and you constantly have to fix this problem 15 20 thousands miles they suck period
Unfortunately, I understand your frustration…. Such a great handling vehicle but …
Don't buy a Subaru.
I have a 56 F100!
Subaru engines are junk