When they said that chronocial was being told from the perspective of the titans I stopped buying the books. I wanted a concrete 100% canon book, not some fairytale being told by a fictional characters. I knew this also meant they could retcon anything they wanted which was contradictory to even having the books in the first place.
@@Nagria2112 It was NOT obvious. It's common knowledge that Azeroth's in-universe records of the ancient past were mostly made by the Titans. However, the Chronicle is written out of universe, and was marketed as definitive canon. Those comments about the Titan perspective were made after Chronicle vol. 3 released. That's THREE books in, and then going back on their marketing. That's false advertising, and people are allowed to be disappointed.
@@Nagria2112 It was not "obvious", it cannot be "obvious" as the books 1-3 have explicitly an extradiegetic narration. So much so that the chronicle 1 named the damn franchise in the first few pages of the book, it was also repeatedly advertised and proclaimed as a concrete warcraft bible, because that's what it literally was supposed to be and is from how it is written.
@Nagria2112 the chronicles were prescribed definitive lore from the creators of warcraft. It's like saying the lotr is the perspective of the elves and not the definitive lore as Tolkien wrote it to be true.
The Titan point of view thing is so stupid. They just changed their own lore then made up an excuse for it. Nobody bought the chronicle volume 1 when it was first announced because they wanted a point of view from a character, they wanted an objective pin-down of the lore for it and later volumes. Blizzard needs to own up to the fact that they are disorganized, and don't actually know or care to make the lore truly standardized. I worked in book publishing for years. If I could proofread something while also doing production development, the multi-billion dollar company can hire a proof-reader who knows the lore of their game. This isn't hard: they have unfettered access to the best talent in the creative industry. I say this as someone who deeply cares about worldbuilding, and Warcraft. I don't care about whether they are "woke", anti-woke, or what sexuality/gender the characters are. I'm down for whatever with that stuff, as long as the worldbuilding is consistent and story is well-told.
Not only did they want an objective account of the lore it was SOLD as an objective part of the lore. The Titan point of view was a cop out when they couldn't help themselves from constantly retconning stuff.
I think the problem with Shadowlands and The First Ones. Is in how they built them up to be the penultimate beings in wow. The heaviest of hitters. Pre-Titan, Mega-Titan's. And they did that to drive the video game and make the stakes seem super high for the expansion. But in doing so they paint themselves into a corner as to how make sense of it all when it came time to move on. That is how I feel about it.
I think they would've worked had we not straight up jumped to Zereth Mortis 2 patches after their introduction. That's like introducing the Titans in Classic, only for us to go to Ulduar right after facing C'Thun. It's silly.
In my opinion the best way to solve this now is to just say the First Ones are the Titans. It's Titan-like architecture and machinery, let's say they "ordered" the Shadowlands and made the Keeper-like "Eternal Ones" to harvest souls and anima for some purpose. Maybe mortal souls were truly just lost/free before they created this "machine of death" that Zovaal and Sylvanas wanted to break.
@@preds43 Could you elaborate? I think Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher are very similar to places like Elunaria, Ulduar and Sholazaar Basin. Then there's all the constructs speaking the exact same way, following their purpose, forging a new Arbiter and a new Tyr being similar, keeping wildlife for studying and experiments, gigantic soul-powered machines with specific purposes... But your point was just the architecture, so we could keep it at that too. lol
Whose perspective was Chronicles written by? Easy, let me just pick up my copy of Chronicles. Let’s see, it says written by Chris Metzen, Matt Burns and Robert Brooks. With additional story by Alexander Afrasiabi, Christie Golden, Richard A. Knaak, Dave Kosak, Micky Nielsen, Bill Roper and James Waugh. That’s odd, haven’t heard of those Titans before, doesn’t sound like any Titan Keepers either.
Yeah it is stupid that Blizzard made the Chronicles an unreliable narrator. Usually when Blizzard does that in external material (aka anything that is not the games themselves) they clearly state that. As seen in the WC1 manual (human lore written by Anduin Lothar, orc lore written by Garona), WC2 manual (alliance = Aegwynn, Horde = Gul'dan), the Grimoire of the Shadowlands (Ta'lora) or recently, the Dragonflight Codex (Khadgar). These examples clearly state that these are written 'in-universe' by those characters. But we do not get that for the Chronicles books, including vol 4.
@@jordanread5829 At this point, given that the Dragonflight wasn't even mentioned, I assume that they already had chronicles vol 4 written a long time ago, and they didn't really wanna waste time on revising it, but they already had 3 volumes, so probably just decided to push it out and be done with it.
Steve Danuser and the Blizzcon 2019 Q&A are non-canonical for me. And that move was pure idiocy just to have his hands free to mess up established lore.
It’s so embarassing that they can make a book that solidifies the lore be more inconsistent that the game experience itself. This was a chance of a “return to form” after the mess of the Danuser era but it is not looking any better
Zul leading the Zandalari in antagonistic actions against the Alliance: Nah Talanji might ally with the horde? Arrest her now! Oh boy how lovely. Not to mention that Taran Zhu can now teleport. He gets around you know. Getting choked to near death by Shan Bu and getting impaled on Gorehowl by Garrosh in what is now the period of time... poor fella.
@@cameronmcewen7192 Wow. Seriously, wow. I asked what you mean, and that means I'm "spewing hatred"? Are you a victim now? But you didn't victimize this poor person you ASSAULTED with your nonsensical "this isn't Exploring Azeroth" observation? ;) lol
How come they keep getting things wrong and releasing books with major typos in it when Nobbel is able to see it right away? It's embarrassing to whoever is in charge of their publishing department
Saying that there are five Old Gods, and then saying that N'zoth was the last of them to be defeated, are not necessarily contradictory statements. Perhaps the fifth old god has not yet arrived in Azeroth, and that would be part of Xal'atath's plan (I also remember an item from the Sarkareth raid, which spoke of a strange being from space that was approaching earth). Or perhaps he was already defeated a long time ago and in a way that has not gone down in history.
Aye there's def ways to make it work like the y;shaarj bit. It still coming wouldn't be a possibility as they mention it being the backbone of the black empire + it does beg the question why they only mention it now and not in the previous volumes.
@@drkTmplar422a Nah they've been very clear about G'huun being artificialy created due to experiments so that couldn't make it be the backbone of the black empire. Black empire was when the old gods ruled azeroth, G'huun came after
@@Nobbel87 G'huun keeps being a sticking point with how few pays attention to the lore as they still think he is a old god. And how convoluted and reconne prone wow is for cases like this keep happening as they refuse to lay down this is the correct lore that we wont change and then build on it. Having a canon is not dangerous but boy do Blizzard think so ..
If you've ever played HotS, the heal he uses in BFA is his ulti which is named Holy Word: Salvation. He also gets desperate heal, flash heal and leap of faith
Yes I’m so glad he didn’t forget this came out :). I literally have sealed copies of each Chronciles book for nostalgia so in 50 years I can read about it.
i really like it overall, some things are weird nd/or chris and steve didnt quality check them like the part with we fought aggramar on the seat of pantheon LOL.. even tho we all know that we it was antoros. Ofc there might be thing you dont like how they conned it but thats always gonna happen with creative work.
Re experiencing pandaria history make me remember why i fell for wow, watching this history recap remember me so much discomfort of the way the story has gone
@@Nagria2112 a lot has change in the aproach of what your character do and why , back then the majority of the story is you do the things for your faction , dragonfligth is just a bunch of brainless stupid guys wanting fun and exploracion with 0 aim just for say wuhu!
I used to love Warcraft lore. Back in vanilla I was the only one of my friends who actually read all the quests. But how are you supposed to invest in the story that the writers of the story don’t even respect enough to be consistent? Every time they try to patch things up and do recon just make it worse. I’ve given up on trying to enjoy it. It honestly makes me sad.
i used to be a hardcore wow lore nerd. now i maybe play wow once a year cause of the damage of shadowlands. youtube recommended this video to me so i just wanted to see how bad the writing team currently is. i don't have hope for good writing in the future.
Here’s a thought: what if both stories of how the cosmos were formed are true? What was it Harmony said? Mythological tales often have a basis in fact. And the player thing was definitely a typo. Most likely they used player internally to get most of it written, then changed it in the editing process and they missed one.
It's funny, but I don't bat an eye at being called "player", because that's how being called "champion" or "maw-walker" has felt over the years. Something about it just pulled me out of the immersion and reminded me that they see me as a viewer of *their* interactive TV show, I'm not an integrated part of this world.
That how I felt the last years before stopping the game at the end of SL. You are the champion of this and that, and yet, you are so distant and detached of all of this. For me, It feels now so... mecanical. You help the NPCs because they can't do a thing without you in dungeons or raids, and then when cutscenes pops, they mostly (or butcher the cutscene, hello N'zoth) forget that you are even there in the first place. I love the lore of Warcraft, but not as player anymore, but just to read/hear and keeping me updated, lol. Thats why I prefer how FFXIV is written/done (yeah, again a comparison to FFXIV, sorry). You are the hero of everyone and everything as well (mostly of Light, you don't hold count of 150 different titles each time, for me that help), the NPCs are doing something in the background as you go doing X or Y thing. But what they do, is they keep the player close to the NPCs, you are in this together, you appear in most cutscenes, they ask you your opinion (even if it don't have major impact, just differents lines, and sometimes even take consideration of your other jobs if you have them lvled up), they call you mostly by your name... And even when you are on the backseat (aka, not being the center of attention), you are still here, being a support character with presence. You and your fellow adventurers are the heroes, even if they are NPCs, and they make it feel it like that.
The "perspective" thing is so obnoxious. It's them trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want to sell you on a sort of 'bible' of lore, but also want to be able to retcon anything any time some writer thinks they have a better idea. Frankly, the art is the only reason I'd want to own them. Though I've only bought the first.
I think this vjsharj info confirms some link between him/it and the first world tree/ghanir. I know the civilisations it refers to could just be all the bug spawn places, but bugs are just part of the natural cycle (just like the hinted root systems and fungoids) it's just when they're blasted with void energy they become damaging to nature. So i still see a connection
I'm afraid it's just gibberish. They mean the civilizations that have risen and fallen on Pandaria, and all the various Old God-aligned bug species were directly created by the Old Gods and in no way natural anyway.
This "certain point of view" shit is stupid... is basically saying " yeah this is the canon way it all happened, but we can fuck up the lore if we want..."
That's exactly what it's saying. It gives the writers free reign to retcon anything whenenever it suits them. I wonder if they realize how hard it is to give a shit about the story when everything that's true now could be retconned tomorrow.
I understand that they have to retcon sometines and viewing the latest interviews you get a glimpse at how much rotation was in their staff in the last years and what difficulty that poses. plus they have shareholders and are restricted therefore to admit failing and be transparent. but I really hope the manage one time to just set some things in stone like they tried with chronicle. that would elevate the rest of the story very much instead of undermining it with time travel and dimension changes
Every time I see the mass resurrection/heal scene in the BFA cinematic I think as a Horde player. “Are we the bad guys?” And also how close that scene got me to playing Alliance for once.
"Hey wow devs can you guys make a book series just logging everything that happened since the stories so convoluted?", wow devs: one step back now yall, two steps forward, take it back now, spin around, STOP, hammer time, also its written by the titans, also no its not
The re- arrangements they made to the BfA leveling campaign make no sense at all, and I blame it on Microsoft firing the department that was supposed to proof- read (and correct) new lore books. I still hold on to the order we played it in- game. As for Shadowlands, while it didn't provide any further explanation to the messy lore and pointless retcons, it did bring more context to the cinematics that were dislike- bombed to oblivion on CZcams, when they came out. Finally, for the First Ones, considering they're briefly mentioned in the new Uldaman books, it's clear they ARE still canon, but their presence in the story will be minimal, and I think it's for the best. I like to keep them as the creators of the Warcraft universe. Nothing more.
I know it's, you could say hopium, but there is still a possibility they go for The Primus being the one behind everything from SL in the future. They could be holding out until after the current plans to give more time between SL content. Then have something happen that results in either us going back to SL or SL coming to us (probably not for an entire Xpac), but in doing so we "discover" that The Primus is actually bad & the theory was correct. Now with us gone home, Zovaal dead, Denathrius on holiday, The Primus is left seen as a Savior of the Shadowlands, with less resistance than ever & having created the new Arbiter with the Crown of Wills, that he made using the willpower of those who defied domination. You could argue it would be a retcon but you could also argue it's an evolving story & what we experience was all part of his overall plan. (Blizzard's way out of a retcon) Whether or not they do anything like this, only time will tell. However if they were to, they certainly wouldn't do it in this book. It would be way to big of a "revaluation" to just be in the book, it would need to be in game.
I can sorta understand the Jailer getting paranoid and going nuts, (and the other eternals pooh-poohing it and not realizing he'd gone AS nuts as he does even after they put him in Maw-jail), so I don't have as much issue with that as I do with the messing up of the BFA part. The BFA part left me going 'what - that makes NO sense at all'.
I know people were (rightfully) disappointed that Chronicle is nothing more than Order propaganda, but if you listen from 1:02 to 1:10, Metzen clearly says Chronicle was created to "Titan up" and "clarify" the lore!
seeing the "Realm Map" of WoW with Life, Death, Light, Void, Order and Disorder, i still wonder why Order and Disorder are swapped. Void doesn't seem to align with Order, so why are they Neighbors, and neither does Light seem very disorderly.
Vol 4 was so, so much lower quality than the previous 3, I mean the difference was damn black and white. Vol 4 was written like a wowwikia article, tbh, and a poor one at that. To boot, a couple pieces of the art in it was *so* much lower quality, it seriously looked like poorly rendered half done pieces. Also, it seemed like every single page there was a punctuation error or just a random word or half sentence they forgot to edit properly. Made it all feel very… sloppy, low effort.
I personally don't hate the Shadowlands, I just think they did a bad job with it. I always used to say that Cataclysm felt 80% done with 20% still missing. Shadowlands is just that 20%. What we got wasn't bad, persay, but we didn't get a whole lot, which is my only complaint. Yes there are some things I didn't like, such as the Jailer being behind everything, that felt shoehorned in, and despite the fact that I actually quite liked the Jailer as a villain, he too only felt like 20% fleshed out. What I say is, Shadowlands wasn't bad, it just wasn't fleshed out enough.
I, weirdly, prefer the timeline provided for BFA using Ashvane instead. It was made quite clear while questing as the Alliance that Lady Ashvane had plans of betraying the Proudmoores, and was already well into helping fund the war with azerite weapons. It makes sense to me that after Sylvanas was lured by azerite through Gallywix, and Teldrassil burning, that the next strategic move would be to obtain someone capable of fueling the war by shaping weapons and smuggling them, which would be Ashvane. In the meantime, it just also happens that the downfall of Ashvane, and Sylvanas, would come in the form of Talanji working for the Horde, and rooting out corruption from within. I think had they bothered to play it out in this order in-game, BFA would of hit different in a good way as it would have set up villains and intentions immediately.
another cookbook... that's no point to change the BFA timeline when the quest in game had better timeline to let the player understand. Also our dear Jailer didn't even know what's coming Whatever
Blizzard really needs to begin dedicating a few people, maybe hiring, to solely fact-check lore. Have these people proofread every piece of the game that is added, in-game and books, so that we can avoid the weird conflictions, not to mention oversights like calling the players "players".
So chronicles makes it even worse for WoW lore than before. At least the Thrall v Garrosh Mak'gora has gotten a final rules call in that Garrosh was stupid enough to not ban magic.
It wasn't a true mak'gora anyway. What, was Thrall by honor going to take over leadership of the Iron Horde's Warsong clan when he won? lol Thrall basically just baited Garrosh away from his troops to finish him, and also saving the player's life.
Dear lord they sure have conditioned some players to be ok with terrible lore and having to buy a new book over and over oO Rather than simply "looking the other way" the Sunreavers are now actively involved in Garrosh's theft of the Divine Bell from Darnassus, making them more explicit culprits in the betrayal of the Kirin Tor that Jaina Proudmoore uses as justification to enact the Purge of Dalaran. I mean hammering home that the Hord is the villan faction and the Alliance are incompetent is standard at this point but stop trying to flip and flop with lore that only makes the head canon people happy that can twist it to make there setting right. Just lay down this is the lore and build on it heck read any of Brian Sandersson books series to learn.
Danuser is gone. So I would disregard anything he said. Anyway...for this, Metzen wasn't involved. It reads like someone who played MOP-SL just summarizing what was said in-game. Nothing new like the previous ones. It's not terrible but it's a step down from 1-3.
To be fair, I feel like Warcraft lore's gone so far beyond Metzen's scope that he's more of an advisor than anything. Which is fine imo, just need the writing and planning team to be solidified rather than weird cloak and daggers shenanigans going on from BfA on where even Christie Golden didn't even know key elements that she was writing for that ended up being conflicting points later Like, just clear direction, write compelling impactful scenarios, respect the lore established, done and done
@@cameronmcewen9666 Yes, he was kicked out some time ago. We actually don't know when. Metzen had returned and been back for 6 months before anything was announced. It looks like Danuser left sometime early in Dragonflight.
14:43 So that confirms that titans don’t destroy the worlds that contained them after they emerge. So I guess they just phase out of the planet and gain their physical forms ‘n’ stuff?
@@francescoporcari8597 No, he was not. He never became a titan, of any kind. His unborn soul was abused and used as fuel by the Burning Legion, and at the end the small, broken remnant of his soul was ripped out and used as a last resort weapon. Behind the scenes the Nathrezim (loyal to Denathrius) apparently were pumping this soul remnant full of death magic, so that upon its death it would be sent into the Shadowlands and knock out the Arbiter. But this magic infusion is never actually seen or explained, like a lot of Shadowlands lore, so...
@@mokarokas-1727 he was born as a (death) titan, that's why he looked as a titan when we fought him, and the chronicles vol. 4 confirm that when he was born as a titan he didn't destroy the planet.
@@francescoporcari8597 If I correct you a second time, will you maybe concede that you don't actually know this stuff well enough yet, and drop it? Did you see Sargeras in the Antorus finale video? That's what a titan looks like. He's kinda fiery and has demonic wings, sure, but he's definitely a planet-sized humanoid. Did we fight Argus, the planet-sized humanoid? No, we did not. And before you start: the other titans at the Seat of the Pantheon were killed many thousands of years ago (or their bodies were, anyway), and what we saw were the tiny remnants of their souls - which canonically shouldn't even have been in Antorus anyway, but that's beside the point. They're in a situation similar to Argus. The only known remaining, fully living titan is Sargeras. Though it's hard to say if maybe his imprisonment killed his body when he shrunk like that. Another piece of unexplained lore. In Chronicle artwork uncorrupted titans are depicted as kind of ethereal and star-patterned, but definitely planet-sized humanoids. If this is no longer the case, then Chronicle information is no longer trustworthy anyway, right? And Chronicle 4 confirms the planet didn't blow up when the remains of Argus' soul were extracted, but it doesn't say anything about a titan being born for real. Chalk that up to colorful language, if you want. After all, Chronicle 1 itself describes titan births as rising as moving worlds, silvery rivers running along their bodies and what-not.
History is always written from a perspective because it's a summarisation Fiction is written by the author and is the actual truth of the world they build Fuck what they did to the lore
You think just handimg out credit to just the alliance and horde are too vauge of an answer? I think mentioning so undersells how big these factions are that are the dominant power in their continents. You'd think sub factions that represent the player base for both parties would leave to your imagination enough to satisfy your involvement. Like generalizing a space marine chapters to a particular campaign.
What Zovaal saw was the NEGATIVITY in our souls. This has been a consistency since SL being the actual literal split of blue and gold, or the literal exploitation of negative emotions to steer events by forces of shadow(void/death/chaos) The narrative has been steering towards answering "what makes a soul" and it ties in between azerite and her soul itself to even that of Sylvannas. She was meant to be an example of what happens when someone is consumed by raw negative emotions. ..the void, void has been a representation of pure negativity while the light is a force of fate/faith It's also the same reason life is on the side of chaos and void in the chronicle 2. Life has potential to UNDO creation by following our negative emotions and deviating from fate. It also is worth noting the reason void is the overarching big bad...the reason they are prophecized victory--and we already know midnight is coming....shadow exists so long as light does, it has existed since the dawn of creation along with light...and both are representations of a soul, of emotion...and all beings with sentience can be swayed....such as Sargeras and Zovaal who were both guided by their fears....there's a reason ysharaaj and the sha were embodiments of anger fear pride and doubt... literally the same emotions every antagonist struggles with or is built upon. There's a reason shadow is the primary antagonist, and it's because the darkness exists in all of us. Every single void elf will say the same thing, basically telling us the future plot. Meanwhile Alleria and Anduin are struggling with those emotions as proxy of their involvement, Anduin s doubt blocking him from the light and Alleria's fear making her a perfect vessel for the void. Locuswalker literally tells us "get your emotions in order or void will consume us all" There's nothing to fear, but fear ITSELF
This was pretty bad even by the lax standards I have for WoW lore/story these days. I think they need to spend a few months going through their lore and story with a fine-tooth comb and get everything straight and find out what actually needs to be set straight before releasing another Chronicle book.
they already said she isnt an old god. however, it would be pretty cool of she was an old god... atleast a remanent of an already defeated and consumed old god. and the dagger was actually a part of her previous body. it would fit the part as ¨not an oldgod¨ and could be a herald of the voidlord.
@@gonx9906 that may be true. But I think most people are annoyed by Blizzard ruining Sylvanas as a character. She was a fan favourite after all. Her build up began in Legion with her becoming Warchief and Blizzard hinting at big things that led to this. In the end, the conclusion was Shadowlands which, you know, was completely disappionting. No smart ploting, just following orders from Mr. Evil himself. This didn't just make Sylvanas a bad writter character but also ruins a lot of story telling of two(!) add ons BEFORE. Both, Legion and BfA hinted at Sylvanas being a grey character. Which was a complete lie.
Nope. That Pyromancer's theory never made sense, it is groundless, and I'm happy that they have officially discarded it. The whole rune/order magic topic was completely forced and against all evidence.
To me, it's very saddening that they are so quick to "get rid" of the old gods. These beings are so dark and amazing with so much potential to do more. With the sheer threat each represents, they could've made whole expansions per old god. Just a huge miss and makes me not really respect the storytelling anymore, due to them being treated like side quests with how quickly they were dealt with. I love you Nobbel and what you do, but they are just falling flat with too much. 😢
I think it seems that way (inconsistent) but it’s because it’s written by the titans view of what happened. Chronicles is a history written to favor the titans. It’s inconsistent because we were actually there to witness the events they are trying to lie about. Like the aggramar fight
@@SirMaxwelltheFirst he just wanted to have his hands free to retcon the hell out established lore. He left us with a convoluted mess, and the inconsistencies are because they simply don't know their own lore.
@@wildguy2872 No, he was described as the result of a Titan experiment to artificially replicate and study an Old God's power. The experiment wasn't a success, and either way he was not flung into the crust of the planet with the others tens of thousands of years before by the Void Lords, so...
@mokarokas-1727 I am aware of G'huuns lore, and he is referred to as an old god despite his artificial creation. Thus, he may potentially be the 5th old god they are referring to.
@@wildguy2872 they are talking about 5 Old Gods during the Black Empire, the Empire was BEFORE the Titans ever found Azeroth. Hence G'huun did not exist during this Time. And hence cannot be refered to as 5th Old God.
This book covering from bfail onwards feels like toy story 4 😂😂😂😂. What a letdown 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️. This confirms that the lore was damaged beyond repair right after legion. At least I no life the crap out of that expansion. I wish they had the balls to say that everything after Legion was a bad dream /visions caused by azerite exposure (last in game cinematic from legion)
Blizzard has ruined any meaning in the game by just stating "point of view". They also do it so they can change things Willy nilly. Writers do it with everything now and pretend there is some nuisance but it's always just lazy writing and is also lacking in the very real things which is good and evil.
Chronicles is a complete joke at this point and is really emblematic of Blizzard's contempt of the lore in general. Couldn't imagine wasting my money on these books.
lets face it, as star wars. the lore of warcraft has become goobledigook. Its a mess. I dont see how crucible of storm isnt both alliance and horde but just horde relevant as an example too. More of a disagreement there but. Eh. This is what happens when you have no plan.
I like sounding like a broken record and a parrot compared to many comments. But I won't bother buying this trash book... Lore by Deadpool (akka one who knows there in a game?) When the Defs don't care about the lore I don't care about the game. Stopped mid BFA and didn't spend a dime on Blizzard things, that is not going to change.
![The STORY you NEED to KNOW before The War Within - SPOILER FREE! [Lore]](/img/n.gif)
When they said that chronocial was being told from the perspective of the titans I stopped buying the books. I wanted a concrete 100% canon book, not some fairytale being told by a fictional characters. I knew this also meant they could retcon anything they wanted which was contradictory to even having the books in the first place.
@@Nagria2112 It was NOT obvious. It's common knowledge that Azeroth's in-universe records of the ancient past were mostly made by the Titans. However, the Chronicle is written out of universe, and was marketed as definitive canon. Those comments about the Titan perspective were made after Chronicle vol. 3 released. That's THREE books in, and then going back on their marketing. That's false advertising, and people are allowed to be disappointed.
@@Nagria2112 It was not "obvious", it cannot be "obvious" as the books 1-3 have explicitly an extradiegetic narration.
So much so that the chronicle 1 named the damn franchise in the first few pages of the book, it was also repeatedly advertised and proclaimed as a concrete warcraft bible, because that's what it literally was supposed to be and is from how it is written.
Exactly this. I wanted a nice hard back definitive lore of azeroth collection, and they just said nah f you.
@Nagria2112 the chronicles were prescribed definitive lore from the creators of warcraft. It's like saying the lotr is the perspective of the elves and not the definitive lore as Tolkien wrote it to be true.
@@Nagria2112 look up the definition of "chronicle."
The Titan point of view thing is so stupid. They just changed their own lore then made up an excuse for it.
Nobody bought the chronicle volume 1 when it was first announced because they wanted a point of view from a character, they wanted an objective pin-down of the lore for it and later volumes.
Blizzard needs to own up to the fact that they are disorganized, and don't actually know or care to make the lore truly standardized. I worked in book publishing for years. If I could proofread something while also doing production development, the multi-billion dollar company can hire a proof-reader who knows the lore of their game. This isn't hard: they have unfettered access to the best talent in the creative industry.
I say this as someone who deeply cares about worldbuilding, and Warcraft. I don't care about whether they are "woke", anti-woke, or what sexuality/gender the characters are. I'm down for whatever with that stuff, as long as the worldbuilding is consistent and story is well-told.
Well said
100% agree
Not only did they want an objective account of the lore it was SOLD as an objective part of the lore. The Titan point of view was a cop out when they couldn't help themselves from constantly retconning stuff.
I bought all three.
I have all 3 previous chronicle books 🤷🏻♂🤷🏻♂
Red shirt guy's legacy lives on
I think the problem with Shadowlands and The First Ones. Is in how they built them up to be the penultimate beings in wow. The heaviest of hitters. Pre-Titan, Mega-Titan's. And they did that to drive the video game and make the stakes seem super high for the expansion. But in doing so they paint themselves into a corner as to how make sense of it all when it came time to move on. That is how I feel about it.
I think they would've worked had we not straight up jumped to Zereth Mortis 2 patches after their introduction.
That's like introducing the Titans in Classic, only for us to go to Ulduar right after facing C'Thun. It's silly.
In my opinion the best way to solve this now is to just say the First Ones are the Titans. It's Titan-like architecture and machinery, let's say they "ordered" the Shadowlands and made the Keeper-like "Eternal Ones" to harvest souls and anima for some purpose. Maybe mortal souls were truly just lost/free before they created this "machine of death" that Zovaal and Sylvanas wanted to break.
@@mokarokas-1727 Except the architecture isn't titan-like at all
@@preds43 Could you elaborate? I think Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher are very similar to places like Elunaria, Ulduar and Sholazaar Basin.
Then there's all the constructs speaking the exact same way, following their purpose, forging a new Arbiter and a new Tyr being similar, keeping wildlife for studying and experiments, gigantic soul-powered machines with specific purposes... But your point was just the architecture, so we could keep it at that too. lol
Whose perspective was Chronicles written by?
Easy, let me just pick up my copy of Chronicles.
Let’s see, it says written by Chris Metzen, Matt Burns and Robert Brooks.
With additional story by Alexander Afrasiabi, Christie Golden, Richard A. Knaak, Dave Kosak, Micky Nielsen, Bill Roper and James Waugh.
That’s odd, haven’t heard of those Titans before, doesn’t sound like any Titan Keepers either.
Yeah it is stupid that Blizzard made the Chronicles an unreliable narrator. Usually when Blizzard does that in external material (aka anything that is not the games themselves) they clearly state that. As seen in the WC1 manual (human lore written by Anduin Lothar, orc lore written by Garona), WC2 manual (alliance = Aegwynn, Horde = Gul'dan), the Grimoire of the Shadowlands (Ta'lora) or recently, the Dragonflight Codex (Khadgar). These examples clearly state that these are written 'in-universe' by those characters. But we do not get that for the Chronicles books, including vol 4.
Metzen is a Titan, you fool!
@@jordanread5829 At this point, given that the Dragonflight wasn't even mentioned, I assume that they already had chronicles vol 4 written a long time ago, and they didn't really wanna waste time on revising it, but they already had 3 volumes, so probably just decided to push it out and be done with it.
Steve Danuser and the Blizzcon 2019 Q&A are non-canonical for me.
And that move was pure idiocy just to have his hands free to mess up established lore.
When instead of making shadowlands make more sense they actually make bfa make less sense
Ngl, Vol'jin on the cover is salt in the wound of his short stint as warchief.
8:51 appreciate your sarcasm lol
The Sha of Anger takes over me totally whenever I see Steve Danuser.
It’s so embarassing that they can make a book that solidifies the lore be more inconsistent that the game experience itself. This was a chance of a “return to form” after the mess of the Danuser era but it is not looking any better
This pretty much proves it wasn't all Danuser and there is plenty of blame for all of them.
@@aster4jaden steve gave us so much more than he did negative things but ppl gotta channel their anger towards some one i guess.
@@1Forn61 That's what happens when someone takes on lead role of something this big.
I say blame them all! 😂
@@1Forn61 could you give like, 3 examples of positive things about the Lore that Danuser made up?
Zul leading the Zandalari in antagonistic actions against the Alliance: Nah
Talanji might ally with the horde? Arrest her now!
Oh boy how lovely.
Not to mention that Taran Zhu can now teleport. He gets around you know. Getting choked to near death by Shan Bu and getting impaled on Gorehowl by Garrosh in what is now the period of time... poor fella.
Someone couldn't wait till Monday...
I guess guess you can say the only consistent thing about warcraft are the inconsistencies.
There have always been inconsistencies, but recently they abandoned any shame in retconning.
I like the theory that the 5th old god may have been killed in a power struggle with the other 4 before the Titans ever showed up.
That would make sense, it was known that they were at odds with one another.
Could avoid some sorely unneeded retconning if so
Or just they sapped it of it strength and rended in 4 ways, to leave alittle bir left to be something.
the amount of mistakes in this book is embarrasing, they really need to pull it and make the changes needed
@@DaWoWzer This isn’t Exploring Azeroth.
@@cameronmcewen7192 Nobody said it was. What do you even mean by that?
@@mokarokas-1727 You’re embarrassing yourself just by being here spewing hatred.
@@cameronmcewen7192 Wow. Seriously, wow. I asked what you mean, and that means I'm "spewing hatred"? Are you a victim now? But you didn't victimize this poor person you ASSAULTED with your nonsensical "this isn't Exploring Azeroth" observation? ;) lol
@@mokarokas-1727 You continue to attack me with your toxicity.
How come they keep getting things wrong and releasing books with major typos in it when Nobbel is able to see it right away? It's embarrassing to whoever is in charge of their publishing department
Because Microsoft laid off almost all of the lore and historian employees back in January.
@@keasbey11 Oh because they truly did their job pristine since about half a decade, right?
Do you think there's a chance for a Second Edition to fix all the issues with this mess?
Seems like this one did a pretty lousy job of doing what Chronicles are actually supposed to do. Guess I'm saving some money at least.
Saying that there are five Old Gods, and then saying that N'zoth was the last of them to be defeated, are not necessarily contradictory statements. Perhaps the fifth old god has not yet arrived in Azeroth, and that would be part of Xal'atath's plan (I also remember an item from the Sarkareth raid, which spoke of a strange being from space that was approaching earth). Or perhaps he was already defeated a long time ago and in a way that has not gone down in history.
Aye there's def ways to make it work like the y;shaarj bit.
It still coming wouldn't be a possibility as they mention it being the backbone of the black empire + it does beg the question why they only mention it now and not in the previous volumes.
Couldn't the fifth one have been G'huun though? We do know it was created by the Titans unintentionally.
@@Nobbel87 What if the 5th Old God the book is referring to was G'huun from the Uldir Raid?
@@drkTmplar422a Nah they've been very clear about G'huun being artificialy created due to experiments so that couldn't make it be the backbone of the black empire. Black empire was when the old gods ruled azeroth, G'huun came after
@@Nobbel87 G'huun keeps being a sticking point with how few pays attention to the lore as they still think he is a old god. And how convoluted and reconne prone wow is for cases like this keep happening as they refuse to lay down this is the correct lore that we wont change and then build on it.
Having a canon is not dangerous but boy do Blizzard think so ..
If you've ever played HotS, the heal he uses in BFA is his ulti which is named Holy Word: Salvation. He also gets desperate heal, flash heal and leap of faith
Thumbnail reminds me of those old Yugioh starter decks where Vol'jin would be the main card
Even the Jailer doesn't know his master plan, that's just how deceptively cunning he is!
Yes I’m so glad he didn’t forget this came out :).
I literally have sealed copies of each Chronciles book for nostalgia so in 50 years I can read about it.
Ah I see.... so this is not worth putting on my shelf, gotcha.
i really like it overall, some things are weird nd/or chris and steve didnt quality check them like the part with we fought aggramar on the seat of pantheon LOL.. even tho we all know that we it was antoros. Ofc there might be thing you dont like how they conned it but thats always gonna happen with creative work.
Re experiencing pandaria history make me remember why i fell for wow, watching this history recap remember me so much discomfort of the way the story has gone
@@Nagria2112 a lot has change in the aproach of what your character do and why , back then the majority of the story is you do the things for your faction , dragonfligth is just a bunch of brainless stupid guys wanting fun and exploracion with 0 aim just for say wuhu!
I used to love Warcraft lore. Back in vanilla I was the only one of my friends who actually read all the quests. But how are you supposed to invest in the story that the writers of the story don’t even respect enough to be consistent? Every time they try to patch things up and do recon just make it worse. I’ve given up on trying to enjoy it. It honestly makes me sad.
There weren't enough maps. I also saw "Poisinining Garrosh's food", " "buisness", etc.
i used to be a hardcore wow lore nerd. now i maybe play wow once a year cause of the damage of shadowlands. youtube recommended this video to me so i just wanted to see how bad the writing team currently is.
i don't have hope for good writing in the future.
Metzen did say it was to Titan up the lore
So wait... Now the Old Gods are dead AGAIN?!?!
MAKE UP YOUR MIND ALREADY FFS!
This has got to be the sloppiest Chronicle of the 4.
Can't wait for the new void lord to roll over in his wheelchair...
Here’s a thought: what if both stories of how the cosmos were formed are true? What was it Harmony said? Mythological tales often have a basis in fact.
And the player thing was definitely a typo. Most likely they used player internally to get most of it written, then changed it in the editing process and they missed one.
You've thought about this more than the writers of Chronicle.
It's funny, but I don't bat an eye at being called "player", because that's how being called "champion" or "maw-walker" has felt over the years. Something about it just pulled me out of the immersion and reminded me that they see me as a viewer of *their* interactive TV show, I'm not an integrated part of this world.
That how I felt the last years before stopping the game at the end of SL. You are the champion of this and that, and yet, you are so distant and detached of all of this. For me, It feels now so... mecanical. You help the NPCs because they can't do a thing without you in dungeons or raids, and then when cutscenes pops, they mostly (or butcher the cutscene, hello N'zoth) forget that you are even there in the first place. I love the lore of Warcraft, but not as player anymore, but just to read/hear and keeping me updated, lol.
Thats why I prefer how FFXIV is written/done (yeah, again a comparison to FFXIV, sorry). You are the hero of everyone and everything as well (mostly of Light, you don't hold count of 150 different titles each time, for me that help), the NPCs are doing something in the background as you go doing X or Y thing. But what they do, is they keep the player close to the NPCs, you are in this together, you appear in most cutscenes, they ask you your opinion (even if it don't have major impact, just differents lines, and sometimes even take consideration of your other jobs if you have them lvled up), they call you mostly by your name... And even when you are on the backseat (aka, not being the center of attention), you are still here, being a support character with presence. You and your fellow adventurers are the heroes, even if they are NPCs, and they make it feel it like that.
@@gumloproductions There should be a Warcraft animated show.
I guess is that The Champion etc. has no opinion makes no decision or has any characteristcs at all in the story. He ia just always there.
@@KooriMoonrise I tried to get into FFXIV, I enjoyed it but I eventually came back to WoW, but I no longer pay much attention to the story
The "perspective" thing is so obnoxious. It's them trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want to sell you on a sort of 'bible' of lore, but also want to be able to retcon anything any time some writer thinks they have a better idea. Frankly, the art is the only reason I'd want to own them. Though I've only bought the first.
The last of the "living" Old Gods. That's the hook.
Calling it now: The seventh power is Dynamis.
I think this vjsharj info confirms some link between him/it and the first world tree/ghanir. I know the civilisations it refers to could just be all the bug spawn places, but bugs are just part of the natural cycle (just like the hinted root systems and fungoids) it's just when they're blasted with void energy they become damaging to nature. So i still see a connection
I'm afraid it's just gibberish. They mean the civilizations that have risen and fallen on Pandaria, and all the various Old God-aligned bug species were directly created by the Old Gods and in no way natural anyway.
Nobbel is trapped in the blizzard dungeon, they are conditioning him to accept terrible storytelling and he has suffered enough.
This "certain point of view" shit is stupid... is basically saying " yeah this is the canon way it all happened, but we can fuck up the lore if we want..."
it makes the books not worth buying. why would i buy a lore book that is not real lore?
That's exactly what it's saying. It gives the writers free reign to retcon anything whenenever it suits them. I wonder if they realize how hard it is to give a shit about the story when everything that's true now could be retconned tomorrow.
@@flameknightdragon this
@@IamtheLexx no it's not.
I understand that they have to retcon sometines and viewing the latest interviews you get a glimpse at how much rotation was in their staff in the last years and what difficulty that poses. plus they have shareholders and are restricted therefore to admit failing and be transparent. but I really hope the manage one time to just set some things in stone like they tried with chronicle. that would elevate the rest of the story very much instead of undermining it with time travel and dimension changes
Anduin used power word salvation . It's one of his ults in heros of the storm as proof
Every time I see the mass resurrection/heal scene in the BFA cinematic I think as a Horde player. “Are we the bad guys?” And also how close that scene got me to playing Alliance for once.
Danhuser... freakin danhuser... the true big bad of warcraft lore..
It’s DANUSER, and did he write this volume?
"Hey wow devs can you guys make a book series just logging everything that happened since the stories so convoluted?", wow devs: one step back now yall, two steps forward, take it back now, spin around, STOP, hammer time, also its written by the titans, also no its not
The re- arrangements they made to the BfA leveling campaign make no sense at all, and I blame it on Microsoft firing the department that was supposed to proof- read (and correct) new lore books. I still hold on to the order we played it in- game.
As for Shadowlands, while it didn't provide any further explanation to the messy lore and pointless retcons, it did bring more context to the cinematics that were dislike- bombed to oblivion on CZcams, when they came out.
Finally, for the First Ones, considering they're briefly mentioned in the new Uldaman books, it's clear they ARE still canon, but their presence in the story will be minimal, and I think it's for the best. I like to keep them as the creators of the Warcraft universe. Nothing more.
I know it's, you could say hopium, but there is still a possibility they go for The Primus being the one behind everything from SL in the future.
They could be holding out until after the current plans to give more time between SL content. Then have something happen that results in either us going back to SL or SL coming to us (probably not for an entire Xpac), but in doing so we "discover" that The Primus is actually bad & the theory was correct. Now with us gone home, Zovaal dead, Denathrius on holiday, The Primus is left seen as a Savior of the Shadowlands, with less resistance than ever & having created the new Arbiter with the Crown of Wills, that he made using the willpower of those who defied domination.
You could argue it would be a retcon but you could also argue it's an evolving story & what we experience was all part of his overall plan. (Blizzard's way out of a retcon)
Whether or not they do anything like this, only time will tell.
However if they were to, they certainly wouldn't do it in this book. It would be way to big of a "revaluation" to just be in the book, it would need to be in game.
I can sorta understand the Jailer getting paranoid and going nuts, (and the other eternals pooh-poohing it and not realizing he'd gone AS nuts as he does even after they put him in Maw-jail), so I don't have as much issue with that as I do with the messing up of the BFA part. The BFA part left me going 'what - that makes NO sense at all'.
Also the Light did go into Ravendreath and burn the vamps
I know he gets a lot of crap, but man am I glad desnoozer is gone from blizzard.
If Chronicles are written from the Titans point of view, does that mean that panel sees themselves as the "Titans?"
I know people were (rightfully) disappointed that Chronicle is nothing more than Order propaganda, but if you listen from 1:02 to 1:10, Metzen clearly says Chronicle was created to "Titan up" and "clarify" the lore!
Good joke!
Kinda sad that blizz fails to even get their timeline straight that they have written
Great Video Lore !🔥
seeing the "Realm Map" of WoW with Life, Death, Light, Void, Order and Disorder, i still wonder why Order and Disorder are swapped.
Void doesn't seem to align with Order, so why are they Neighbors, and neither does Light seem very disorderly.
Vol 4 was so, so much lower quality than the previous 3, I mean the difference was damn black and white. Vol 4 was written like a wowwikia article, tbh, and a poor one at that. To boot, a couple pieces of the art in it was *so* much lower quality, it seriously looked like poorly rendered half done pieces. Also, it seemed like every single page there was a punctuation error or just a random word or half sentence they forgot to edit properly. Made it all feel very… sloppy, low effort.
I personally don't hate the Shadowlands, I just think they did a bad job with it. I always used to say that Cataclysm felt 80% done with 20% still missing. Shadowlands is just that 20%. What we got wasn't bad, persay, but we didn't get a whole lot, which is my only complaint. Yes there are some things I didn't like, such as the Jailer being behind everything, that felt shoehorned in, and despite the fact that I actually quite liked the Jailer as a villain, he too only felt like 20% fleshed out.
What I say is, Shadowlands wasn't bad, it just wasn't fleshed out enough.
It's sad how much they don't care anymore.
I, weirdly, prefer the timeline provided for BFA using Ashvane instead. It was made quite clear while questing as the Alliance that Lady Ashvane had plans of betraying the Proudmoores, and was already well into helping fund the war with azerite weapons. It makes sense to me that after Sylvanas was lured by azerite through Gallywix, and Teldrassil burning, that the next strategic move would be to obtain someone capable of fueling the war by shaping weapons and smuggling them, which would be Ashvane. In the meantime, it just also happens that the downfall of Ashvane, and Sylvanas, would come in the form of Talanji working for the Horde, and rooting out corruption from within. I think had they bothered to play it out in this order in-game, BFA would of hit different in a good way as it would have set up villains and intentions immediately.
So, when you find a retcon, a Titan did it.
another cookbook... that's no point to change the BFA timeline when the quest in game had better timeline to let the player understand. Also our dear Jailer didn't even know what's coming
Whatever
Blizzard really needs to begin dedicating a few people, maybe hiring, to solely fact-check lore. Have these people proofread every piece of the game that is added, in-game and books, so that we can avoid the weird conflictions, not to mention oversights like calling the players "players".
So chronicles makes it even worse for WoW lore than before. At least the Thrall v Garrosh Mak'gora has gotten a final rules call in that Garrosh was stupid enough to not ban magic.
It wasn't a true mak'gora anyway. What, was Thrall by honor going to take over leadership of the Iron Horde's Warsong clan when he won? lol
Thrall basically just baited Garrosh away from his troops to finish him, and also saving the player's life.
Dear lord they sure have conditioned some players to be ok with terrible lore and having to buy a new book over and over oO
Rather than simply "looking the other way" the Sunreavers are now actively involved in Garrosh's theft of the Divine Bell from Darnassus, making them more explicit culprits in the betrayal of the Kirin Tor that Jaina Proudmoore uses as justification to enact the Purge of Dalaran.
I mean hammering home that the Hord is the villan faction and the Alliance are incompetent is standard at this point but stop trying to flip and flop with lore that only makes the head canon people happy that can twist it to make there setting right.
Just lay down this is the lore and build on it heck read any of Brian Sandersson books series to learn.
In game it was pretty clear they actively aided Garrosh when you're doing the tracking quest with Jaina.
No way that was just an AOE heal, some of those soldiers were definitely dead
Come find me. Your storytelling is imperative. Nobbel you are noble.
Sounds like from others creators as well that #4 has been a let down. Money grab that could of been put into a couple of pages.
16:10 they really don't want priests to have a battle res.
maybe they're going to pull a Jack Kirby / One Above All and make the devs in universe.
living old gods..what about undead old god..
and light old god ad polar opposite and counterpart.
Danuser is gone. So I would disregard anything he said. Anyway...for this, Metzen wasn't involved. It reads like someone who played MOP-SL just summarizing what was said in-game. Nothing new like the previous ones. It's not terrible but it's a step down from 1-3.
I think that's wrong.
To be fair, I feel like Warcraft lore's gone so far beyond Metzen's scope that he's more of an advisor than anything. Which is fine imo, just need the writing and planning team to be solidified rather than weird cloak and daggers shenanigans going on from BfA on where even Christie Golden didn't even know key elements that she was writing for that ended up being conflicting points later
Like, just clear direction, write compelling impactful scenarios, respect the lore established, done and done
Also test the story ideas and not do a simp crusade x4 😂
Did Steve Danuser really go away?
@@cameronmcewen9666 Yes, he was kicked out some time ago. We actually don't know when. Metzen had returned and been back for 6 months before anything was announced. It looks like Danuser left sometime early in Dragonflight.
If those are mistakes, why did they not hire you to proof read? 😢
14:43
So that confirms that titans don’t destroy the worlds that contained them after they emerge.
So I guess they just phase out of the planet and gain their physical forms ‘n’ stuff?
It could be any which way, because Argus actually cannot be used as an example; he was never born.
@@mokarokas-1727 yes, he was as a (death) titan.
And he was never "ordered" by Aman'thul & c.
@@francescoporcari8597 No, he was not. He never became a titan, of any kind. His unborn soul was abused and used as fuel by the Burning Legion, and at the end the small, broken remnant of his soul was ripped out and used as a last resort weapon.
Behind the scenes the Nathrezim (loyal to Denathrius) apparently were pumping this soul remnant full of death magic, so that upon its death it would be sent into the Shadowlands and knock out the Arbiter. But this magic infusion is never actually seen or explained, like a lot of Shadowlands lore, so...
@@mokarokas-1727 he was born as a (death) titan, that's why he looked as a titan when we fought him, and the chronicles vol. 4 confirm that when he was born as a titan he didn't destroy the planet.
@@francescoporcari8597 If I correct you a second time, will you maybe concede that you don't actually know this stuff well enough yet, and drop it?
Did you see Sargeras in the Antorus finale video? That's what a titan looks like. He's kinda fiery and has demonic wings, sure, but he's definitely a planet-sized humanoid. Did we fight Argus, the planet-sized humanoid? No, we did not.
And before you start: the other titans at the Seat of the Pantheon were killed many thousands of years ago (or their bodies were, anyway), and what we saw were the tiny remnants of their souls - which canonically shouldn't even have been in Antorus anyway, but that's beside the point. They're in a situation similar to Argus. The only known remaining, fully living titan is Sargeras. Though it's hard to say if maybe his imprisonment killed his body when he shrunk like that. Another piece of unexplained lore.
In Chronicle artwork uncorrupted titans are depicted as kind of ethereal and star-patterned, but definitely planet-sized humanoids. If this is no longer the case, then Chronicle information is no longer trustworthy anyway, right? And Chronicle 4 confirms the planet didn't blow up when the remains of Argus' soul were extracted, but it doesn't say anything about a titan being born for real. Chalk that up to colorful language, if you want. After all, Chronicle 1 itself describes titan births as rising as moving worlds, silvery rivers running along their bodies and what-not.
History is always written from a perspective because it's a summarisation
Fiction is written by the author and is the actual truth of the world they build
Fuck what they did to the lore
You think just handimg out credit to just the alliance and horde are too vauge of an answer? I think mentioning so undersells how big these factions are that are the dominant power in their continents. You'd think sub factions that represent the player base for both parties would leave to your imagination enough to satisfy your involvement. Like generalizing a space marine chapters to a particular campaign.
What Zovaal saw was the NEGATIVITY in our souls. This has been a consistency since SL being the actual literal split of blue and gold, or the literal exploitation of negative emotions to steer events by forces of shadow(void/death/chaos)
The narrative has been steering towards answering "what makes a soul" and it ties in between azerite and her soul itself to even that of Sylvannas. She was meant to be an example of what happens when someone is consumed by raw negative emotions.
..the void, void has been a representation of pure negativity while the light is a force of fate/faith
It's also the same reason life is on the side of chaos and void in the chronicle 2. Life has potential to UNDO creation by following our negative emotions and deviating from fate.
It also is worth noting the reason void is the overarching big bad...the reason they are prophecized victory--and we already know midnight is coming....shadow exists so long as light does, it has existed since the dawn of creation along with light...and both are representations of a soul, of emotion...and all beings with sentience can be swayed....such as Sargeras and Zovaal who were both guided by their fears....there's a reason ysharaaj and the sha were embodiments of anger fear pride and doubt... literally the same emotions every antagonist struggles with or is built upon.
There's a reason shadow is the primary antagonist, and it's because the darkness exists in all of us. Every single void elf will say the same thing, basically telling us the future plot.
Meanwhile Alleria and Anduin are struggling with those emotions as proxy of their involvement, Anduin s doubt blocking him from the light and Alleria's fear making her a perfect vessel for the void. Locuswalker literally tells us "get your emotions in order or void will consume us all"
There's nothing to fear, but fear ITSELF
Cool theory, but the writers would never go that deep.
They got rid of the good writers like Christie Golden and hired based on DEI chart
Wizard did it.
Shadowlands didn’t happen…
The stuff that didn’t make sense didn’t happen.
Im glad i didnt preorder this tbh, which makes me really sad.
This was pretty bad even by the lax standards I have for WoW lore/story these days. I think they need to spend a few months going through their lore and story with a fine-tooth comb and get everything straight and find out what actually needs to be set straight before releasing another Chronicle book.
i suspect xal'atath is the 5th old god
they already said she isnt an old god. however, it would be pretty cool of she was an old god... atleast a remanent of an already defeated and consumed old god. and the dagger was actually a part of her previous body. it would fit the part as ¨not an oldgod¨ and could be a herald of the voidlord.
You suspect incorrectly
G'huun?
@@wildguy2872 Not an Old God.
@@CristianDCure blizzard has retconned a lot of things + they saying that could be a misdirect. time will tell i suppose
Just make the "it was the primus all along" theory canon and Shadowlands lore is fixed.
Unfortunatley this would make Sylvanas still be the dumbest and most naive character.
@@Nanaki_VII in the grand scheme of things, it doesnt matter.
@@gonx9906 that may be true. But I think most people are annoyed by Blizzard ruining Sylvanas as a character. She was a fan favourite after all.
Her build up began in Legion with her becoming Warchief and Blizzard hinting at big things that led to this. In the end, the conclusion was Shadowlands which, you know, was completely disappionting. No smart ploting, just following orders from Mr. Evil himself.
This didn't just make Sylvanas a bad writter character but also ruins a lot of story telling of two(!) add ons BEFORE. Both, Legion and BfA hinted at Sylvanas being a grey character. Which was a complete lie.
Nope. That Pyromancer's theory never made sense, it is groundless, and I'm happy that they have officially discarded it.
The whole rune/order magic topic was completely forced and against all evidence.
Ot should have been a mass rez and not a fat heal
To me, it's very saddening that they are so quick to "get rid" of the old gods. These beings are so dark and amazing with so much potential to do more. With the sheer threat each represents, they could've made whole expansions per old god. Just a huge miss and makes me not really respect the storytelling anymore, due to them being treated like side quests with how quickly they were dealt with. I love you Nobbel and what you do, but they are just falling flat with too much. 😢
I think it seems that way (inconsistent) but it’s because it’s written by the titans view of what happened. Chronicles is a history written to favor the titans. It’s inconsistent because we were actually there to witness the events they are trying to lie about. Like the aggramar fight
That’s why Steve mentioned perspectives at blizzcon. He was telling us to stop reading chronicle like it’s 100% fact
@@SirMaxwelltheFirst he just wanted to have his hands free to retcon the hell out established lore.
He left us with a convoluted mess, and the inconsistencies are because they simply don't know their own lore.
Please offer to proof read these books for Blizzard!
I am asking myself... after 20 years its time for Warcraft to move on. To a new Universe.
They technically do have a reset button in the Sepulcher of the First ones.
Someone just has to press it.
I can read fanfiction for free, why should I pay blizz for it?
Out of game media should be 100% canon, none of this unreliable narrator garbage.
Isn't G'huun the 5th old god? I mean I know he's technically not one but I remember them calling him one.
I got that G'huun was a false god
@RrowdyBeast I mean he is an artificial old god, yes, but they still described him as an old god.
@@wildguy2872 No, he was described as the result of a Titan experiment to artificially replicate and study an Old God's power. The experiment wasn't a success, and either way he was not flung into the crust of the planet with the others tens of thousands of years before by the Void Lords, so...
@mokarokas-1727 I am aware of G'huuns lore, and he is referred to as an old god despite his artificial creation. Thus, he may potentially be the 5th old god they are referring to.
@@wildguy2872 they are talking about 5 Old Gods during the Black Empire, the Empire was BEFORE the Titans ever found Azeroth. Hence G'huun did not exist during this Time.
And hence cannot be refered to as 5th Old God.
This book covering from bfail onwards feels like toy story 4 😂😂😂😂. What a letdown 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️. This confirms that the lore was damaged beyond repair right after legion. At least I no life the crap out of that expansion.
I wish they had the balls to say that everything after Legion was a bad dream /visions caused by azerite exposure (last in game cinematic from legion)
This just proves that the WoW lore is fudged up beyonf repair
Blizzard has ruined any meaning in the game by just stating "point of view". They also do it so they can change things Willy nilly. Writers do it with everything now and pretend there is some nuisance but it's always just lazy writing and is also lacking in the very real things which is good and evil.
Chronicles is a complete joke at this point and is really emblematic of Blizzard's contempt of the lore in general. Couldn't imagine wasting my money on these books.
@@cameronmcewen7192 Seems you're crying a river about this comment.
@@cameronmcewen7192 what does it have to do with crying? You don't think the products you buy should undergo rigorous quality control?
@@cameronmcewen7192 What am I hating on, exactly?
@@cameronmcewen7192 I haven't denied anything, I'm asking you to specify exactly what I'm hating on, quote me.
@@cameronmcewen7192 lol, I hate WoW because I made a jab at your hypocrisy? Then you must REALLY hate WoW for telling them to cry you a river. =')
lets face it, as star wars. the lore of warcraft has become goobledigook. Its a mess. I dont see how crucible of storm isnt both alliance and horde but just horde relevant as an example too. More of a disagreement there but. Eh. This is what happens when you have no plan.
So the moral of the story is, WoW lore is a mess.
Oofer
Man I was fast
wow i hate blizzard, is this chatgpt
🛌
I like sounding like a broken record and a parrot compared to many comments.
But I won't bother buying this trash book... Lore by Deadpool (akka one who knows there in a game?)
When the Defs don't care about the lore I don't care about the game.
Stopped mid BFA and didn't spend a dime on Blizzard things, that is not going to change.
Have you bought it already?