Running Windows NT 3.51 on modern hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 / Intel 13th Gen. Bare metal - no emulation!
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- It's time to check if Windows NT 3.51 works on something newer than my Ryzen 9 3900X configuration, like an Intel 13th Gen CPU/H610 motherboard. I will use the same installation I have on my Ryzen 9 PC since it's much easier than performing a fresh install.
Now I want to install NT 3.51... :)))) Not for the 32bit software part, but more as a Windows 3 PC with 4 gigs of ram!
Obviously you don't need that much RAM for 16bit software, is not even addressable. :) Anyway modern BIOSes are limiting the available RAM in the legacy mode: Ryzen 9/X470 mobo = 3.29GB. Intel Coffe Lake Refresh (9th gen) /H110 = 3.1GB, Intel Raptor Lake (13th Gen) / H610 only 1.86GB...
@@vardekpetrovic9716 I know, but I was pointing out that BIOS (CSM) implementation is important on this matter. On my motherboard X470/Ryzen 3900 with the very same hardware - the available RAM will differ depending on what BIOS version I use. With the latest version made for Ryzen 5000 series I get less RAM and Windows 9X support is broken... (but there is Cregfix to fix Win 9x support) On this even newer motherboard (H610 socket 1700) available RAM is limited to 2GB.
This is mind blowing. NT 3.51 on modern hardware? Unreal on NT 3.51? Windows is amazing.
I remember my friend forcing me to upgrade to 2000 professional straight from NT and I have never seen so many errors in my life. I lost everything and he felt so bad about it but doing that forced me to try to keep up to date with the most recent OS. I love old technology lol. I love the fact that people are still interested in how things used to work.
Great video and you are the best by helping us install versions of Windows earlier than Windows 7/8/8.1/10/11!!!
You killed me with that printer test!! 🖨🖨🖨
That blew me away. I still keep my Epson ActionLaser 1500 to have something for old computers, but maybe now I don't need to?
I kinda wish there was a modern day version of windows 98. The same old school version but is able to take advantage of more Ram, better processors, capable of running heavy games. If it was stable, I would legit only have that on my desktop rn lol
And performance monitor didn't get updated for DECADES
This is absolutely awesome!
I haven't watched your video on NT4, but I'm surprised it ran on modern hardware. I can't seem to persuade it to run on qemu unless I emulate a Pentium (albeit with only SP3…)
This NT 3.51you see in the video was initially installed on a K6-2/500. I had to edit some files to make it accept the CPU, this procedure is documented on the web... If you ask me, I have to look again on how to do it. What surprised me the most is that it runs with multiprocessor kernel too. P.S. I will try your ahcifix and if it works with Windows 3.11 on this Intel 13th Gen config I will make a video.
@@O_mores Ah cool, I'll check that out, thanks! :)
As you know, the ahcifix was built to deal with a BIOS quirk on my PC (Z97 chipset, 4th-gen Core i7), so there's no guarantee that it will work on something so much newer. But feel free to try it! :)
OH you're Hungarian ! Some of my favorite artist came from Hugary :) Zagar and anima sound system! Nice video I haven't seen NT 3.5 running for a long time! cheers from Canada! :)
Hi there! I'm from Transylvania, not exactly in Hungary, but close... ;) Speaking of Anima Sound System... maybe you like Enigma founded by Michael Cretu, a fellow citizen.
@@O_mores Oh sorry for the mistake! I assume based on your google language in Magyar! Thanks for the music suggestion I'll put that on my list! ;D
I did try one of those "pci-e hubs" boards to get more pci and pci-e slots from one pci-e port.
From my experience it works fine.
Nice, PCI-E 1x has enough bandwidth to use 2 regular PCI devices at full transfer speed. I want one of these: PCI expanson Box: 1 PCI-E to 4 PCI, in a nice enclosure, but it's only 250€... www.exsys-shop.de/shopware/en/categories/expansion-box/1157/compact-expansion-box-pci-express-slot-to-4x-pci-slots
@@O_mores that should work but too expensive. can get just board for 1/10 of that price
Yes I had one of those 4in1 for gpu mining for around 20€ new from aliexpress, used you should get them for 5€ or so.
I used NT 3.5 from 1994 till forever, Alpha, PowerPC, running Oracle 10i, or Alias wavefront IRIX render machines on Windows services.
Zen is easy, native AMD 64 support, enough apps that support it !
How many NT 3.5 servers are still operative, unable to migrate the processes ?
I guess not many NT 3.5 servers are alive, but I read an article where Windows Server 2003 had a huge market share in 2016... "Analysis by Spiceworks, a provider of management solutions for IT pros, found an overall 18 percent market share for Windows Server 2003, based on June sampled data. In addition, 53 percent of organizations in its survey were running "at least one instance" of Windows Server 2003."
@@O_mores here in Spain there are thousands of Windows 2003 Server and SBS Server running around on little business with no retirement planning on mind. Second top one is 2011 SBS Server. The replacement costs are too high for what those business need.
Wahoo! Let's See how well this goes!
Great Vid! Well Done Sir!
New Sub! Detroit, Michigan, US
I have Windows NT 3.51 in a Virtualbox VM. It has Microsoft Office 4.3. But to be honest I have all Windows Releases in a VM from 1986 Windows 1.04 to the latest Windows 11 Pro.
I have all Windows releases too, but they are spread on several SSD and partitions. I have an Ensoniq ES1370 and a Voodoo 3 PCI - these two PCI cards are compatible with almost any Windows, including Windows 3.11. This is I can simply reboot any Windows I want using the same hardware.
Well, don't stop there! Once you've done that, the next complete-waste-of-time achievement is to make them all again using emulated hardware with something like PCem or 86Box, bringing you one step closer to the authentic experience of having a pile of useless, antiquated PCs. It's like VMs - but shittier!
Never knew Unreal Tournament was developed on NT3.51! Interesting video, thanks, subscribed!
This real cool
awesome!
Glad you think so!
I think you should have added the note that the only reason your file server was able to be seen by nt3.1 is because it was using the older smb1 protocol. Modern samba servers and microsoft file servers disable this by default. If you were trying to connect to a modern nas for example its likely this would not have worked. Honestly I would question why your router still is supporting smb1 as it was disabled for security reasons....
Yes, I'm fully aware.... Anyway SMB1 is not completely extinct, my TP-Link router mentioned in the video has a 2023 firmware - 1.0.7 Build 20230829. I have a few other Huawei routers SMB1 compatible, also my LG TV with a 2024 firmware update and my Android phone also can access SMB1 share.
@@O_mores Its honestly overblown for the security part anyway to be honest. Its only bad if someone on the local network was doing something bad. You did inspire me to try out windows NT4 however on my period correct windows 98 machine that is running a PII 350 with a intel 440BX chipset. I used NT4 because I had a disc from my old company along with never opened nt4 boot diskettes. The experience was alright as tracking down old nt4 drivers is a bit of a chore these days but no blue screens or any errors. I did run into a bit of a problem with my 8gb flash card as nt4 did not like that the drive was that big. I partitioned it down to 4gb and it was happy. There are even voodoo drivers for my 2000 and sound blaster drivers for sound. Have yet to try it playing any games however so I hope i get some similar performance as 98 or ME but from what I read online during the time it was a bit slower on the same platform for nt4 for some reason.
@@treahbladeI'm just happy when people try these retro installs. I think this must be treated as a relaxing therapy... :) NT4 is much more compatible with 32bit software than NT 3.51. Btw, I'm looking right now for a modern video player for Windows NT. On these modern systems with 3-4Ghz CPUs speed is obviously not a problem... but it's not easy to find a decent player for these new formats. I found this one that kinda works with NT4: retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2020/01/tcpmp-072rc1-mod-6.html
it's so strange seeing new software like SIV and hwinfo running on old windows NT.
Oh, yeah... SIV specifically works because the author, Ray, is actually passionate and very aware about NT 3.51. We had some discussions and he asked me to test SIV on different configurations and send him back reports generated by SIV. HWiNFO works only in NT4 and up... - in NT 3.51 crashes.
Oooooo! Do Windows for Workgroups 3.11 next!!
Here we go: czcams.com/video/nqyF6ZlT-Pw/video.html
Runs great on HyperV too with VBEMP video drivers. No audio of course.
5:06 what is the second song you're listening to? Thanks!
It's the soundtrack from the "Nameless: The Hackers RPG" from BoxCat Games - this track is called "Breakin in".
Will it run ST-DOS?
If you mean ST-DOS for Atari... won't budge... I can't think of any other ST-DOS... :)
@@O_moresI meant ST-DOS for IBM PC compatibles.
@@tikkasen_urakointiSorry, I don't know this one, can you provide a link or something... :)
@@O_moresGoogle should find it.
In every version of Windows You can close window by double clicking topleft icon.
Yes, I usually use ALT + F4. But when I record a video, I prefer to explicitly show when I close a window, otherwise would be a little confusing for a program/window to disappear from the screen for no apparent reason.
I always liked 3.51. Picky, but solid.
Yeah, quite picky on software, but there is a greater satisfaction when you can run 32bit software on NT 3.51... :)
Can't you "transplant" the software rendering Opengl32.dll file to Win NT 3.51? This way you don't need an OpenGL card or drivers. A standard install of Windows 95 or NT4 should have that DLL, as it's used for the 3D screensavers. And with the power of the modern CPU software rendering should work fine even with demanding (epoca wise) titles.
I'm replying to myself because now I think I'm remembering better about the software rendering OpenGL from Windows, and it was an incomplete implementation, but I know that there are complete software implementations that I used on Windows 95 or 98.
Those incomplete implementations worked on simple applications (like the screensavers), but didn't work at all with anything complex like games.
With the complete implementation the performance was abysmal with games, and now I'm curious about how it may perform with a modern CPU.
Hi! Windows NT 3.51 it is OpenGL ready... I did try MESA OpenGL, it works in NT 3.51, but the frame rate is low, not playable. As far as I know the game must specifically support *software* OpenGL to get better results. For example GLQuake supports software OpenGL and the results are much better. In Quake II I get about 33 FPS @1024.768 by using software OpenGL renderer from Microsoft. I can't test this in NT 3.51 because Quake series won't start, all the Quake series will specifically check the OS version and it will display this message: "Windows version 4 or higher required..." (there is a workaround for this - I might try it)
Hey! Thats Workstation me! :))))
Hi there, Server!
Super tare!!!
Yeah, it is actually unreal to see Unreal graphics in those years. I hardly can imaging how people feel that. And now games are not so mind changing, with all the technology we have, it become a template based business.
It was indeed "unreal" to play this game in the summer of 1998 on a Pentium 233MMX. The software rendering engine was the best at the time and I didn't even think that I need a Voodoo. Unreal was released in May 1998, so the technology behind Unreal engine was developed mostly in 1996 - 1997, on Windows NT computers, that's why this game runs perfectly fine without DirectX in NT 3.51.
Can you share where to get that PCIe to PCI adapter? I have seen many but the one you are using is interesting. Did you use an ISA adapter too???
Well, it's an El Cheapo... from Aliexpress, I think I paid 20$ for 2 adapters. The bridge chip is important - this one uses an Asmedia 1083, and this chip is used by many motherboards to implement PCI slots, including the one used in the video. ISA adapters are totally different. If from PCI-E to PCI you get 100% compatibility, an ISA adapter has very limited use, older cards won't work at all.
@@O_moresHave you seen Rasteris ISA card? It used the TPM header for real ISA with some limitations but soundblaster worked.
HOW??? In 2008 I tried to install Win NT 4/0 on laptop with celeron u353 and PC with Athlon 64 3500+ and it was even unable to be installed.
Actually, the CPU generation doesn't make any difference when installing Windows NT. As you can see runs very fine on the 13th Gen hardware. The main issue when installing is the disk hardware --- but many people start thinking that... "Hmm..., the computer is too new, the CPU must be to fast..." and gave up. I was one of those people. But in reality, you have to take special care of how disk is accessed by Windows NT - either by using a PCI to IDE/SATA card that has Windows NT drivers or by using UniATA drivers. But you can't use UniATA drivers during the setup so in my case was a combination. First I used a PCI to SATA adapter with NT4 drivers that are NT 3.51 compatible also, then I installed UniATA and that very installation is running on this video.
so cool
Netscape Communicator FOREVER, oh and by the way running on OS/2 Warp 4.5 pleaze! :P
Ok, I will definitely make a video about OS/2. Stay tuned.
uau, super. cum iti vin ideile astea? sunt bestiale! :)
Pai, aveam NT 3.51 deja Instalat pe Ryzen 9, eram curios mai mult daca merge in multiprocessor mode pe Intel. Si uite ca se poate... :)
Liked & Subscribed!
Welcome aboard!
how did you get pass the cpu limit error windows 9x cpu limit
Well, that error occurs in Windows 95 and 98 first edition. The CPU speed has no effect on Windows NT. Anyway there is a patch for Windows 9x, you can see in this video how Windows 95A can handle an Intel i3-13100F after the patch is applied: czcams.com/video/gTaUTx6xPE4/video.html
NT 3.51 or 4.0 without scsi? 🥴
It works using UniATA drivers which can cover all the use cases with Windows NT:
DMA/UDMA support (up to ATA-133) on known and generic DMA on unknown controllers
LBA48 (large drives above 128Gb) support
large drives above 2Tb support (SCSI READ16, WRITE16)
SerialATA support (SATA, SATA-2, SATA-3)
AHCI rev. 0.95 - 1.30 support
NT3.51 (i386+ CPU), NT4, 2000, XP, 2003, 2005, Vista, 7, ReactOS (x86/i386)
Hope you have rescue disks and a floppy for them..😅
Hell yeah, more absurd adventures in software installation.
You almost teased me to buy one of those epsons. Even though I know their heads get clogged all the time. Then I saw your print. No thanks 😂
Never Epson again!
I stick to canon pixma multifunction printers that have their heads included in the cartridge. So every cartridge a new head. These printers last a very long time.
I don't think it's specifically for Epson but for any CISS(continuous ink supply system) printer. On the other hand it's very cheap to run a printer like this. You just have to use it regularly.
Great video...
Glad you enjoyed it
@@O_mores Is there any way on some NT version to accesss RAM for extraction info from?
Why not NT 4.0?
Actually there are a few NT 4.0 videos on this channel:
czcams.com/video/upuUtLkNVjY/video.html - Multiprocessor support on NT 4.0
czcams.com/video/BSN43szLVts/video.html - Running NT 4.0 on Intel 13th Gen CPU
czcams.com/video/QdkZC2WAiDQ/video.html - Runnint NT 4.0 on AMD Ryzen 9 CPU
@@O_mores thanx a lot 🙏
Does VLC for Windows 95 works here?
I didn't test it, but TCPMP mod works in NT4 : i.imgur.com/B9dI3sx.png | ..and somehow starts in NT 3.51 but it's not working. I have to look for something more stable.
@@O_mores what about starcraft 1? Does it work? I managed to run the map editor in NT 3.51, but the crack did not want to start (I do not have the original game, so it complain about missing CD)
insane tests lol..
Why don't you like VMs? I use them all the time (VMware for newer OSes, and 86Box for older)
On real hardware I pick the video card, I struggle to find a sound card(especially for NT 3.51) - let's say I have a personalized experience. Playing games with a proper video card also it's a big deal on real hardware. Also, it's about commitment, when I have to reboot and I pick let's say Windows 98 SE... I usually stay there for a while, on a VM it's easy to loose focus, ALT + TAB and I'm on Facebook 2 minutes later. :)
I loved Windows 2000. Everything after sucked.
Then I have a Windows 2000 video especially for you: czcams.com/video/osoLP8Vm-Yc/video.html
i do not belive you, Windows NT have NO DRVERS for that OLD OS!
Just watch the video and you'll see how I'm installing drivers for video, sound and LAN. Of course I'm using older PCI/PCI-E cards.
A lot of talk.. I lost it….
Why bother?
Yup, my thought exactly. 😂
There's no practical purpose to installing NT 3.51 other than just for the sake of nostalgia.
Because it is fun, I once hade WinMe, Win2000, WinXP, Linux, FreeBSD, OS2/Warp 4.52, BeOS and OpenDos installed on the same disk in mulitboot.
Because old operating systems are cool and a great way to escape the broken UI design we have today.
@@dlarge6502 wtf dude? That makes no practical sense.