Do This When the Newbie Gains Run Out
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
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Incorrect, when you run out of newbie gains you are supposed to increase weight by half a pound a week while continuing 3x5's until your knees blow out. 😏
keep doin them fahves
Also good point to start blaming your genetics for shit progress
@@ezet And when that don't work, Ripper of toes will show up and scream at you to gain another 50 pounds to keep progressing! :D
Oh shit , i never knew that. Thats bro
Beyond the novice phase, Rips programming is dogshit.
I remember running something like this when I was trying to “master” 225 on bench when I was an intermediate. I started off with 225 for 5x5. Every week I would add ONE rep in TOTAL (25 total reps first week, 26 total reps the next week, etc, etc.). I did this until I was at 225 for 5x8 and then increased the weight up to 235 or 245 and repeated the process. Worked well and seems relatively sustainable for those looking to add something every week.
This is a wave-based progression. Volume goes up linearly, then drops. 5x5, 5x4 + 6x1 etc... This is basically a higher rep version of a hepburn style wave progression. In the thing Bromley is talking about here, the rate of progress is variable depending on performance, whereas in the thing you are describing, the rate of progress is static.
@@Hooberschmit1 there isn’t the addition of a 6th set not sure where you got that from. Sets stay at 5 and reps go from 5 to 8. Just like he describes in the video where sets stay at 3 and reps go from 6 to 8 before increasing intensity and starting at 6 again.
@@MiroTheHero7 Yeah, I mean 5 sets of 5 then 4 sets of 5 and 1 set of 6. I wrote it backwards. My point still holds.
@@Hooberschmit1 I’m not sure what your point is. My original comment describes the same style of progression that Bromley is talking about in the video that worked for me and could work for others.
This is exactly what I did too. The problem I ran into is after building up to 245X5 or so, I would start to develop nasty over-use injuries. This progression requires you to regularly push very high intensities (80-85% or so) to RPE 10 for a sustained period of time. Just like LP, you can only take that so far imo.
Didn't realize I was doing double progression without knowing what it was
dynamic double progression has been the most fun and the most logical way of progressing, i like the autoregulation aspect of it and the fact that by doing dynamic double progression, the effort stays high on each set is my style
‘Cruising altitude of volume’ is my new mantra. Adjust intensity from there, suppress impatience while you cannot demonstrate complete comfort with volume. Once the weight has ceased to be a real challenge (third set of ten becomes twelve with maybe even two reps in the tank), you add weight, but not until. Proper effort will keep me honest, and injury free, since the time I hurt myself was overloading. (Sorry, had to write this down for my own benefit.) Thanks Bromley.
This progression scheme is brilliant. I've been using "Double Progression" or Rep goal, and though it worked my reps would either stay extremely consistent or immediately drop off. The Dynamic Double Progression seems to be a perfect balance of rep goal, and making progression. Weights can feel so drastically different from day to day, and I like programs where I can make weight adjustments that aren't just percentage based from workout to workout. You're a king.
Dynamic double works with higher, Hypertrophy rep ranges. If you get down below 5, the rep drop off from a weight increase is a larger percentage of the tonnage and you end up dropping the weight too low on the backoff sets. On real low rep power work, Hepburn progression (2,2,2,2,2,2,2 then 3,2,2,2,2,2 then 3,3,2,2,2,2 etc. ) works better IMO.
@@johnbackos5192yeah and it is also 2x as slow
This programming content is so valuable, especially for us newer lifters! 👍🏻
I missed the stand-in-front-of-a-whiteboard Bromley talks
Sean Nalewanyj has a video on the double progression and dynamic double progression from a few years ago, so these methods get the nod from two people. Also Steve Shaw has a similar method where the last set's "rep goal" is the set that gauges whether you add weight or not.
Great video and super helpful nevertheless!
Sounds like Alex's Bullmastiff workout
man, i've been looking for something like this for a long time! I rarely felt ready for my lifts on 5-3-1, and it caused me so much trouble. It just hurt so bad to not be able to hit my lifts.
Great video btw!
did you end up going back to 531?
@@Jamezee312 I've started a powerbuilding program instead. And I'm much more focused on hitting the specific RPE rather than weight amount now. This works much better
For sure going to use this with deadlifts. Just getting back into them consistently after figuring out a chronic hip issue. Appreciate the content
Several sets that are at or close to failure, so be careful. Pressing, rowing, squats, not much of a problem but deads might be hard to recover from. If you go this route, I would keep it to one day per week and look at taking an easy week every 4th week.
@@AlexanderBromley would this work better on a trap bar deadlift because the setup is easier and is less fatigue on the low back?
@@richardcraig6572yes but it's still harder to recover than the other movements.
Been using dynamic double progression and my lifts and gains have been skyrocketing.
One thing I like about double progression is that it has its own form of periodization built in. The day you hit your rep goal for the 3 sets that was an easy day except for the last set. When you increase weight next time, all sets are maximal effort. But then it gets easier, because you got stronger.
About dynamic double progression what I have some doubts about is that there's only a progression marker on the first set, so it gives me "permission" to wing it on the 2nd and 3rd. I know that we shouldn't, but it is lacking the accountability part of the standard double progression.
Other progression systems that I like are the ones popularized by Steve Shaw. Lowest intensity would be last set +2 (so 8,8,10). Higher intensity would be standard lower progression (8,8,8). Higher intensity, 8 on first set then 18 total on the last two. Even higher intensity, 25 total across 3 sets. Forces you to maximize each set.
What those systems have in common is thst require a minimum of reps total across all sets before weight progress.
I’m pretty sure if you’re feeling like you can wing it on the last later sets because they’re lower reps your rest times are too long or you’re not going to failure. You don’t have to go to failure but you also probably shouldn’t be resting 5 minutes if it’s making the last two sets feel easy when the point of them is that they’re so hard for you at that point that you can’t do as many as you did in the first set
@@hata6290 what I meant is that because the last sets don't count for progression, it gives me permission to not care about my performance so I can put less effort on those.
This doesn't happen with the other methods of double progression where every set has a minimum rep threshold before going up in weight
Reminds me of Steve Shaws rep goal system
I didn't realize there was a name for this. I mostly used this type of progression for bodybuilding work, accessory movements when I'm including the big 3 or for the primary movement when I'm doing pure bodybuilding work.
I was doing double progression for accessory lifts when doing Super Squats 20 reps squat program. In the last weeks there was alot of hard work and fatigue and losing motivation for 3 times per week almost every training maxing out behind the neck presses, rows, dips, chin ups, rdls/nordics, some core exercise and gastrocnemius and tibialis raises. Dynamic double progression sounds like a more optimal and sustainable solution for accessory work. But double progression is great for teaching hard work!
Excellent video! If every beginner/intermediate tracked workouts and followed this video's information, so many people would experience dramatic gains over time 💪.
Great video! Trust you to put it in a really succinct way
This is very helpful. I've already been doing DDP by accident at times but not often or intentionally. I'd been doing DP a long while but lately I've lost a lot of volume on my 2nd-4th sets of my compound lift due to fatigue. I'll use DDP instead now. Thanks!
Turns out I've been doing double progression for the last 4 months. It's been great tbh
Sounds really good for some of my beginner friends and family who ask me for advice and programs etc.
in my book it is the best way to train undoubtedly, you ensure progression for strength as well as volume for hypertrophy. this can be milked for ever and ever with the right adjustments.
This is mandatory info to know after a novice program
Teacher Bromley, you deserve that money to pour down from your head (genuine attemp to communicate in a different language)
That Dynamic Double progression is awesome! Definitely going to use this when I stall on Greyskull LP! Awesome video, thanks for posting!
very solid and thorough presentation
Bromley in his garden after a big strongman meal giving us good tips to progress what a man 👌
This was a great video. Thank you for explaining Double Prorgession and Dynamic Double Progression. I definitley going to implement that into my workouts
this shit just opened my eyes. i have seen the light.
Dude the diagrams on this one were awesome. Great video
This is what I’ve been looking for the past three months. Thanks brother for your valuable info
There are instances of DDP, that you will end up not dropping the weight, and advancing every set separately week by week. Been training like this last 10 weeks and it works wonders, it will exhaust you though, deloads and putting more rest days are mandatory.
The walking vlog style actually really suits you. Would definitely be interested in seeing more in that style like short snippets if you think of something while you're out and about!
Could there be a presentation on Triple Progression in the works? Maybe a "Volumizing" Iceberg/Series?
Thanks for all the great content.
I remember watching a podcast featuring JM Blakley , he was talking about his 6x6 program. Basically it was exactly what you just said. I never actually made commit to that, I think it could help me break my plateaus.
I'm suffering from adult life syndrome where whenever I get something going for me in the gym, life happens. Disease, more job to do, house needs repairings, injury strikes. I haven't progressed in any powerlifting exercise in 2 years.
Commit to it and see what happens. Eat more, hit 6X6 for six months, track your lifts. Tell us how it goes. 👍
Hang in here buddy
I followed this progression intuitively by setting volume objectives and adding weight once reaching them
I have my own version
Hypothetical example:
week one
405 Benchpress 5 RM
5 reps failure first set
4 reps failure both second and third set
week 42
405 benchpress 6 RM
6 reps failure first set
5-4 reps failure both second and third set
week 5839257832657623457832657832
405 benchpress 7 RM
7 reps failure first set
6-5 reps failure both second and third set(or 6-6 reps like on week one where it was 4-4)
Then i add clippers to add 1.62 lbs and make it 406.62 benchpress
And over time i'd add 2.5 lbs, 5 lbs, 60 lbs, 120 lbs, 800 lbs, 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 lbs
What would you recommend if you hit a plateau using dynamic double progression? E.g. you miss that 8th rep three weeks in a row? Second question - would you change sets at any point, or only manipulate the weight and reps?
I'd probably say decrease the weight slightly
@@henrykjohn78 for missing the last rep? Why would uou reccomend that
You could add a set
Also double chexk your recovery is on point
@@noamguitar4413 Because it's probably not that you don't stimulate enough, but that the fatigue you incur is too high for you to adapt to the stimulus properly. Reducing the weight and maybe doing an extra set for a few weeks might give you that extra dose of stimulus without grinding your limit as much, thus enabling your body to adapt to it. At least that's what I came up with, but I am by no means an expert on this stuff
this was such a good video, I wish I had this info 10 years ago, my assistance work would have been thoughtful instead of straight sets
Great explanation! Thank you for the video!
I wish I’d known about double progression when I milked the newbie gains all those years ago
I’ve been doing a double progression without Knowing it for years. Lol I add 5 lbs every micro cycle of 4-7 weeks until I can demonstrate complete control
Ey Big Brom, you cut yourself off at the end D:
Aahhh man. Thanks, this is what I get for uploading late at night
Thanks mate given me another great programming idea with dynamic double Progression, used something similar but using my last set, for my clients awesome.
Production quality is insane now!
That dynamic double progression is similar to APRE from Supertraining. I'm using the APRE 10rm protocol right now coming back after a layoff, and I added the 2/3 backoff method from Base Strength for extra volume. I think I will progress through the APRE 6rm protocol and switch to the 10% backoff method. It's working really well right now and it seems like it could be sustainable for a while.
I love this idea. I’ve been using percentage based programs like Juggernaut 2.0 but I’m looking to move into a phase where I’m looking to focus on some new movements and variations as my primary focus and I don’t have that baseline for that (and since I’m new to them I’ll blow part whatever I see quickly).
This seems like a good approach to familiarize myself with my abilities on lifts I haven’t loaded heavy previously or recently while still getting in enough volume.
Huh. I understood dynamic double progression as increasing sets individually, but only if you hit the top end of the range. I. E. for Week 2 in this example, you would not increase set 2 or 3 until you hit the 8 reps in those sets the weeks prior.
Thank you, this is awesome!
I was running a LP strength upper/lower along with a DP during my hypertrophy days
When you train HIT properly. There is no run out. There is a smooth progression from start to your genetic limit as a natural. Volume leads to plateaus. And burnout. Because it does not allow for adequate recovery.
this is good stuff man
Using something like this with periodized rep ranges works as a solid year round program or off-season for strength athletes.
I like to start high reps and just decrease them every 4 weeks, so
4 weeks of 10-12
4 weeks of 8-10
4 weeks of 6-8
4 weeks of 4-6
Sean Nalewanyj has entered the chat
I've been doing this intuitively for my ez bar curls. Platued for a month at 50 kg from linear progression 5x5, and switched over to 3x10. Not sure if my 1 rep max went up at all yet, only been doing it a few weeks but my work capacity is much better now
I'm pretty sure this describes my bench tactics for the last 5 years. haha. My bench is at 137.5kg/302lbs for 9 reps at this point. 😂 When do the noob gains stop!? 😂
Love this, thanks!
I do a 3RM set for strength and follow with with 4 5-15 rep sets for growth. Once I hit my 3RM goal tho, I switch to 5RM for that lift for a while.
Would you only do this once a week? Let’s say you’re benching with the dynamic double progression, you wouldn’t do this twice a week? Once on monday once on Thursday? Then repeat for week 2? I’ve only recently started looking at training for strength and have been more focused on bodybuilding/hypertrophy training, so this type of methodology is new to me. Is less better in something like this?
this reminds me of how JM BLakely described his progression for the bench.
Start with 6RM, do a set of six, the next 5 sets try to get as many sets close to 6 reps, next time try and increase a rep(s) in the later sets until you hit 6x6, then go up in weight.
Oh, I thought I was doing dynamic double progression. But I’ve actually only been doing double progression. Not dynamic.
I had great success in the past with performing 10 singles in the Push Press at 220lbs, following week 5 doubles with the same weight, following week 3 triples with the same weight. Up the weight 5lbs and go back to 10 singles etc etc. This slow cooking got to where I was hitting a max triple at 265, then a few days later 308 x1rm
Great content thanks
If you can perform the same amount of reps on your 2nd set as the 1st....you did not push to failure.
Lifting heavy sacrifice progressive overload
How many sets is the target? Since the goal here is to work in the sweet spot of stimulus % and accumulate vol from there, how is that determined for the main lifts? Consult the training log is the answer here I understood. Then is this prescribed for accessories alongside?
Love the video, but it cut off at the end as you were starting to say more. I'm curious about what you were starting to say.
Currently running greyskull I'll give this a crack after I've bled this dry!
Is it okay to do Dynamic Double Progression with isolation exercises like bicep curls, tricep extensions etc..?
Is there any purpose to specifying a lower bound for the rep range? Why do we say the rep range is 4-6 instead of 0-6? They both seem identical to me. Thanks in advance for any clarification! 🙏
Nicely put! I've been doing something like this intuitevly, but now I'm thinking - have I really outgrown the linear one or just got bored/lazy with it? I mean, I'm somewhat intermediate, so not sure , what would be the highlights that it's time to switch to the double one?
I've been doing it intuitively too
@@gaminikokawalage7124 how is the original comment from 3 days ago and the reply is showing as 4 days ago? What time zone are you in, spaceship? Are you from the future?
BTW if LP is still "working" shouldn't you just stay with LP?
Beyond that, you drop down in wt by half and do sets of pause reps, real slow. Also, near max did not do my reps, I lift back up to the bar rack and hold it up above it for 5 to 10 more seconds without my arms locked to know I can push another rep when more rested. Then when finally tired holding it up, just lower it into the rack.
I could be wrong, but the dynamic double progression seems a lot like reverse pyramid.
incroyable. Thanks a lot
What are your thoughts on using added SETS for progression? Like if you hit all reps @ weight (3x8 for instance), you do 4x8 at same weight next week, 5x8 the last week, before adding weight and going back to 3x8 format?
It's called volumizing, he has videos on this already
@@CoolColJ also triple progression
So then what if I do double progression but I also have set ranges? so when I stall and can’t get more reps I add a set. This can help for training momentum so a phase starts at minimal volume and ends at maximum volume. when you finally plateau at max volume for any one lift just swap it for a close variation. Hit an unpeaked max at the end of your hypertrophy phase, use that percentage to do a strength phase where you start at sub maximum weight until you climb past your previous max and you’ve officially become stronger.
Nice
I pretty much do this with accessories but this would be fun to try with main lifts.
Im really happy to see this, this is how i just ended up doing dl's, ended up adopting it for squats bcs i like staying at my heavy weights, but ive been stuck on bench. Just gunna start benching the way i squat and dl
I stopped tracking exact set numbers but aiming for 1 RIR. If I'm struggling with a weight I try to add a couple myo reps and then on another session I drop the weight by 10%. It's easier to add more reps at lower weights. And I can still do it late in a session compared to a heavy set. I did notice my strength and stimulus going up after two weeks rest lately so should probably take deloads more seriously.
@Bald Omni Man uses this technique in some lifts on his free program, if anyone would like to see how it would like it in a set program
This is exactly what I was doing last couple of years. Every time I got back to linear I just got weaker :D .. I have limited time and I also recover terribly so I can only handle two sessions a week, so that is low volume.
Hey bromely can you volumize at a higher percentage, such as 3x4-6 at 85%
This shitnisnso confusing that unless someone is right beside me talking me through it from personal experiences then I DONT understand it
so why dose the weight stay the same for week 4 set 3 ,why didn't the weight drop 5LBs like in the first 3 weeks ? just wondering thanks
Is Dynamic double progression viable/valueable for the first compound if your goal i strength or is something like a more structured method better ? blocks with different percentages etc etc ?
we assume 1 RIR for max effort if compound movement but 0 RIR for isolation?
Something that I never understood about linear progression is if someone can do 90x5 what is the point of starting them at like 45x5 and adding 5 lbs every time? Why not just start at 90x5...?
this is to ensure fatigue builds up over multiple weeks instead of just going straight to the heaviest weight and therefore sacrificing potential progression
@@philipph.3876 Why does progression matter by itself? If I can easily bench 60kg and I start at 20kg sure I'm gonna be "progressing" every day but who cares? Actual progression is the result of training.
Do this for every exercise? Only big lifts? What about accessories?
Just clarifying, with double progression first set, your talking first working set after warm ups?
On the dynamic double method, how much should you drop if you need to? 10%? 15% 20%?
Recalled an old article (think it was Bill Starr) which said something like:
-5% for hard
-10% for medium
-15% or more to take it easy
Probably err on the side of being safer for more volume..
This application would likely be different for the modern top set approach
Is there any difference between double progression and step loading?
It seems like that they both use the same approach
If you have a spotter that helped you out, does that count as a rep or are you still short a rep of double progression?
Doesn't count to the progression. There might be scenarios where a spotter helps with forced reps to get more work in (on curls and such, don't do that on S, B or D), but forced reps don't tell you if you're stronger than last week.
Comments for Lord Algorithm the Arbitrary
So evolving rep ranges basically
Why is he doing 200lbs for 8 on his first set of his max is 12 reps? With this many reps in the tank, he'd realistically be doing much more no?
Is there app app that calculates dynamic double progression numbers?
What are peoples experiences with dynamic double progression have you made good gains and broken plataeus with it?
And is it suitable for accessory work?
dynamic double progression is probably the best way to train for any lifter out there without a specific goal. the strength increase is pretty much consistent and can be manipulated according to your needs, also the volume makes sure you also get your hypertrophy done. in general i would say it is excellent for powerbuilding.
of course, if your training is more specific, say powerlifting-type specific, then it might be better to use periodization in some type of way.
I always see double progression models with 3 sets and small rep ranges like 6-8, 8-10. Is that just for example purposes? Anything wrong with bigger rep ranges like 6-10 or 10-15 with 3-5 sets?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong and I’d actually prefer a bigger range for dumbells. Very easy to miss a rep range when going to the heavier dumbells.
🎯🔥