One does not have to make the declaration that one is gay. Live your life as you want. When someone asks if you are dating and if you are, say yes and give the name.. Once the name is said, it becomes clear. It is a soft way of handling the situation.
Agreed. I don't think it's necessary to declare your sexuality. I made the mistake of lying to my colleagues about being heterosexual. The lie had gotten too deep. I finally said one day that I am not straight. I have a husband. I left that job shortly after that as I felt like I lost face and credibility. I started a new job and didn't declare my sexuality. When asked if I have someone special. I tell them I have a husband.
Positive discrimination is not a "thing". Hiring, promoting or giving us preferential treatment simply because we like a penis or a vagina is absolutely insane, and no different than hiring, promoting or giving preferential treatment to someone because of their skin color or gender. It's all bad!! The only way is through merit!!! May the best man or woman (that's all there is, folks, ) win!!!
“Being out at work is soooo hard and scary” but also “Put it on your application, you’ll get the best jobs with less interviews like me” This is why people don’t take us seriously 😒
Positive discrimination is a real thing lol. It just wasn’t ever talked about because the people that were positively discriminated against were the beneficiaries. Did you think I didn’t realise whine I was a diversity hire? Did you think I complained about it?
Sorry. No. In my business, I do not hire straight people unless I REALLY have to. And I certainly do not hire straight Christians. This is my choice. I will continue doing so until it affects my business. Until now, I have managed to find extremely talented LGBTQ people to fill positions. It is easy finding acceptable people, as I always mention the fact that we are LGBTQ friendly and affirming (something most businesses don’t bother mentioning), so many of our applicants are of the LGBTQ+ community. I feel my prejudice counterbalances the extreme discrimination experienced by LGBTQ folk in the past and present. Of course I do not say “Sorry, it’s only for the queers.” as it is illegal to discriminate. But I do send quite a lot of “We regret to inform you” emails to straight people based purely on their sexuality. Tough titties.
“Positive discrimination” is a roundabout way of painting yourself the victim even after getting special treatment and advantages you didn’t otherwise earn.
Trying to paint being “out” at work as some kind of issue while asserting “positive discrimination” (aka special treatment) is a thing is wildly contradictory.
I disagree. We fought for not having to reveal our sexualities at work. No one should be forced to say they are gay at work. Dont make your entire personality be about your sexuality. Your sexuality is no one else business. Im gay and i would never say im gay to have a job. We should be EQUAL . They should take the better person not base on Sexuality.
This is terrible advice, keep your love life out of the workplace. Any time I've been up front about my preferences people were contemptuous, some hostile, others would make snide remarks and so on. I would advise keeping personal and business entirely separate
@@happyhealthyhomo It's only ever made my life more difficult from gays and straights. I'm attracted to gals, guys and trans. It's not something people accept or understand regardless of their orientation. It makes work a very stressful environment
As someone who doesn’t really deal with homophobia, I just don’t see the need to announce it. My coworkers I work directly with know, it’s a big company. This is a total non issue imo.
It's not about your love life per se, I feel like you are over simplifying things here. As a gay guy, and I can't speak for other gay people but personally I feel there is almost a sense of imposter syndrome that develops if the people you see/work with everyday are assuming something about you that is incorrect and you don't correct them. How can you develop a decent human relationship, make friends like everyone else if you feel like people don't know the real you. It can lead to social anxiety and awkwardness, which would have a negative effect on your ability to work well. Many of us were bullied throughout out life growing up, sending us the message that, actually, sexuality matters and that it defines us. (Even though it doesn't) It's like society goes on about your sexuality (long before one has even come to terms with it ones self) and uses it as ammunition to pick on you. And then as soon as we learn to finally accept ourselfs and stop hating ourselves society tells us, shhhh, your sexuality is irrelevant.
Having been the "diversity hire" a couple of times (as a cisgender, Euro-descended, gay man) at an institution which prides itself on diversity, I get this struggle. I'm not pride flags and such all the time, but among colleagues, I have a husband, not a partner or spouse. While I've never experienced discrimination per se, that particular job, it felt more like my colleagues were just uncertain how to behave around me--like they felt like they couldn't talk about spouses and kids, because then I'd mention my husband. Or that it was easier to relegate my family to a "second class" status because it two dads and a dog. It wasn't malicious, but it was a little bit of a reason why I left that position.
George, it is NOT your job to make all the people you work with love people from the LGBTQ+ community. That said, most of the strides made, have come through increased visibility. *Some people legitimately think they've never met a gay person...* Once people know someone personally who is gay, it can take the fear, the stereotyping, all the misinformation they've been taught, and begin to see we're just like them. Maybe your co-workers are more adept people than you may have credited them... Best of luck whichever route you choose.
I’m in a similar company; a large bank who is VERY lgbt supportive so I have no hesitation but I’m still reserved on a 1-on-1 basis w/ coworkers before coming out. I was called a slur by a coworker & rather than cause a fuss I had requested to be moved away from that person but it was escalated & that person got fired. I was guilty for a long time because I don’t like impacting someone’s livelihood but they chose to openly hate & it felt good that my employer fought for me. My team now is very accepting & it’s nice to not walk on eggshells but w/ every new person u have to judge the situation separately
@@simongoodwin5253 I definitely don’t anymore but at the time I think I’m just a person used to accommodating others so my nature is to inconvenience myself and separate from the situation rather than potentially hurt someone back. In the end he deserved consequences of his actions which I know now being older & having more introspection
Mate you’ve got nothing to feel guilty about that person was horrible and out of order to you and your company stood up for you which is as it should be, hate and bullying has no place in the world especially not at your workplace
It is right to accommodate people but in the end, no one has to put up with aggression at work. He must surely have been given a warning prior to firing, so nothing to feel guilty about. It is not as if people have an obligation to be okay with homosexual people. The issue is that at work we have to be polite so that work can go on unaffected. It was his fault, not yours.
I am of an age where you could be sacked for coming out at work. Later in my career and while on paper they were "diverse" I can across quite a bit of quite blatent homophobia and also came to the conclusion that "diversity" actually meant "We welcome all people regardless of race, gender, sexuality. As long as they are 25 year old graduates of a Russel Group university" Towards the end I got fed up with the phrase "male, pale and stale".
I went through this about 20 years ago when things were changing, but not where they are now, especially as far as legal protection for us goes. All I used to do when talking to people was use neutral language, saying partner not boyfriend or girlfriend and not using he or she when referring to my partner. People, no matter how well meaning they are, make assumptions about you in the absence of knowledge. As you get to know work colleagues, you will know who is likely to accept the real you and eventually you can tell them. I usually did so by correcting their assumptions, so if someone made reference to my partner as girlfriend I would point out that my girlfriend was actually a man. It never ended badly, usually the person was embarrassed about their assumption and it took the edge off the conversation. George sounds like he has an inclusive workplace, for me that wasn't ever a thing. I'm with Joel.. its a workplace not a friendship circle, people who have a problem with your sexuality are just work colleagues. They bare the responsibility for behaving in an appropriate manner toward you at work, you shouldnt have to be any different around them. To me, this sounds like George isn't comfortable in his own skin enough, but I find that comes from being accepted. You have to take a chance and trust people will accept. There will always be those that won't, their loss! Unfortunately you will spend your life coming out.. at 50 I recently got asked by a hospital administrator on admission what my wife's name was having answered 'yes' to the "do you have a partner?" question, I just answered Mark. 😂 leaving her quite embarrassed at her question...
I am retired now, but I was fortunate enough to have a career at a fully inclusive place where all were welcome--gay people even celebrated. I so agree that you cannot be happy and healthy while hiding your essential self. Like you guys, I was actually a role model for other gay people. I was blessed in my work life.
Omg I can totally relate to this was a mechanic as a closeted teenager then went to work for a bank when I was 19 and came out and was fully myself but then left that job and went to work for a scrap yard and ended up back in the closet again kept my work life and home life separate which was very stressful keeping up with the lies about “the girlfriend” came out at work 7 years later and my best mate at works response was “did you really think I’d be bothered about that” hasn’t changed our friendship at all everyone’s really supportive and feel so much happier, just be yourself
Great advice. I was “forced” to come out at work by a female colleague who was married to a gay man. She kept making veiled references to my sexuality. I eventually got tired of her controlling me and just came out. Everyone just shrugged their shoulders.
Darlings, believe Me, they already know. So hiding kosts much to much energy, that isn’t worth it. And what for, for those bloody heteros? No never again! Love.
Excellent topic. I am came out later in life after marriage and kids. I had what was already a good career at a large US mid west company ( I am from Canada). I decided to be 100% out in all aspects of my life and coming out at work was part of being 100% me. Turned out the most successful years at work were being me and not holding back who I was, promotions leading inclusion ERG group, conference leadership. I suddenly lost any anxiety I had related to work environment. To me it was a win win for me and the company.
Keegan, "Times are hard." Well, having to feed two teens, two grown men, and your pets. It's astounding that you have a roof over your heads and petrol in the car. 😃
I am doing an experiment. I am now avoiding all Far Left and Centre-Right political videos on CZcams. I have been only watching gay people. I think my depression has been somewhat remedied. If my mother and father didn't happen to be straight my life might be a lot easier.
I've got a few thoughts on this one, which may or may not be helpful, but here you go: First, I'm assuming that since he's already talking about relationships at work, dude _wants_ to be open about this part of his life - but it bears mentioning that no-one ever owes their colleagues information about their love life; you choose to share that with them, or not, as you see fit. Second - companies (much like other groupings of people) can talk a lot about diversity and inclusion, but you never really know how that's going to play out for you until you put that to the test in your own life; that being said, the company having policies in place does at least give you (and your livelihood) _legal_ protections if people aren't living up to their nice words. Which, in turn, means that those policies wouldn't be in place if there weren't _someone_ interested in upholding them, somewhere, because - otherwise the policies would just be a liability. Thirdly, LGBT+ groups are a good thing to have, and should not be under-sold - and that being said, they are still completely dependent on the people who are part of them; whether your _personality_ fits the group can be important in determining how much of a support resource it can provide for you (at least directly), regardless of whether your _sexuality_ comes under their banner - as it's a workplace thing, and directly engaging with your sexuality in the workplace is... not ideal. On the plus side, the existence of a group like this will maintain a background level of awareness of LGBT+ issues in the company, which means if you raise one, you're not going to be seen as having brought in (or worse, _created_ ) that issue just by voicing it. And, there's nothing preventing you from building your own informal, personal support network for LGBT+ stuff in and around work. Fourthly - software development may be where I get to shed a ray of sunshine in all of this, because I've worked with software development people and regardless of anything else, they are - as a matter of necessity for their job - the sort of people who can look at a thing rationally, break it down and work through it step-by-step, and develop their own understanding of it on the basis of information available. This applies to things other than computer programs, including interpersonal relationships; they might not always come to the conclusions you were expecting, but you can at least be assured they'll _probably_ think things through for themselves (rather than taking a friend or relative's word for it, for instance). They also, in my experience, tend to be the sorts of people who don't mind doing (or being) things without regard to cultivating social status. So, they may make _personal_ judgements about your sexuality, but they're less likely to make _social_ judgements, and it's the social judgements that can be really isolating; those are the ones which propagate and cascade, whereas personal judgements tend to stick with just one person. That person might cause you trouble, but they can't stop everyone else from providing you support.
"Stop looking at yourself", "Why are you saying it in that voice? Just to be as patronising as possible" "We're better than you..." "We're not even nice people. It's all a facade." "...by not nice people..."
I know that a lot of people will complaint about 'positive discrimination' but in the end, it makes up for the other disadvantages your correspondent would have experienced. I feel for him. I have been through that. Thank you for the video!
One does not have to make the declaration that one is gay. Live your life as you want. When someone asks if you are dating and if you are, say yes and give the name.. Once the name is said, it becomes clear. It is a soft way of handling the situation.
Agreed. I don't think it's necessary to declare your sexuality. I made the mistake of lying to my colleagues about being heterosexual. The lie had gotten too deep. I finally said one day that I am not straight. I have a husband. I left that job shortly after that as I felt like I lost face and credibility. I started a new job and didn't declare my sexuality. When asked if I have someone special. I tell them I have a husband.
Positive discrimination is not a "thing". Hiring, promoting or giving us preferential treatment simply because we like a penis or a vagina is absolutely insane, and no different than hiring, promoting or giving preferential treatment to someone because of their skin color or gender. It's all bad!! The only way is through merit!!! May the best man or woman (that's all there is, folks, ) win!!!
“Being out at work is soooo hard and scary” but also
“Put it on your application, you’ll get the best jobs with less interviews like me”
This is why people don’t take us seriously 😒
Positive discrimination is a real thing lol. It just wasn’t ever talked about because the people that were positively discriminated against were the beneficiaries. Did you think I didn’t realise whine I was a diversity hire? Did you think I complained about it?
@@caesaranthonyrnrnt7330 exsqueeze me? 🤔🤨🤭
Sorry. No. In my business, I do not hire straight people unless I REALLY have to. And I certainly do not hire straight Christians. This is my choice. I will continue doing so until it affects my business. Until now, I have managed to find extremely talented LGBTQ people to fill positions. It is easy finding acceptable people, as I always mention the fact that we are LGBTQ friendly and affirming (something most businesses don’t bother mentioning), so many of our applicants are of the LGBTQ+ community. I feel my prejudice counterbalances the extreme discrimination experienced by LGBTQ folk in the past and present. Of course I do not say “Sorry, it’s only for the queers.” as it is illegal to discriminate. But I do send quite a lot of “We regret to inform you” emails to straight people based purely on their sexuality. Tough titties.
“Positive discrimination” is a roundabout way of painting yourself the victim even after getting special treatment and advantages you didn’t otherwise earn.
Trying to paint being “out” at work as some kind of issue while asserting “positive discrimination” (aka special treatment) is a thing is wildly contradictory.
I disagree. We fought for not having to reveal our sexualities at work. No one should be forced to say they are gay at work. Dont make your entire personality be about your sexuality. Your sexuality is no one else business. Im gay and i would never say im gay to have a job. We should be EQUAL . They should take the better person not base on Sexuality.
This is terrible advice, keep your love life out of the workplace. Any time I've been up front about my preferences people were contemptuous, some hostile, others would make snide remarks and so on. I would advise keeping personal and business entirely separate
There's a difference between privacy and secrecy...
@@happyhealthyhomo It's only ever made my life more difficult from gays and straights. I'm attracted to gals, guys and trans. It's not something people accept or understand regardless of their orientation. It makes work a very stressful environment
As someone who doesn’t really deal with homophobia, I just don’t see the need to announce it. My coworkers I work directly with know, it’s a big company. This is a total non issue imo.
It's not about your love life per se, I feel like you are over simplifying things here. As a gay guy, and I can't speak for other gay people but personally I feel there is almost a sense of imposter syndrome that develops if the people you see/work with everyday are assuming something about you that is incorrect and you don't correct them. How can you develop a decent human relationship, make friends like everyone else if you feel like people don't know the real you. It can lead to social anxiety and awkwardness, which would have a negative effect on your ability to work well. Many of us were bullied throughout out life growing up, sending us the message that, actually, sexuality matters and that it defines us. (Even though it doesn't) It's like society goes on about your sexuality (long before one has even come to terms with it ones self) and uses it as ammunition to pick on you. And then as soon as we learn to finally accept ourselfs and stop hating ourselves society tells us, shhhh, your sexuality is irrelevant.
Dealing with now. Don’t want to jeapordise opportunity by being out but also don’t wanna hide. You can’t succeed fully without being 100% you.
Having been the "diversity hire" a couple of times (as a cisgender, Euro-descended, gay man) at an institution which prides itself on diversity, I get this struggle. I'm not pride flags and such all the time, but among colleagues, I have a husband, not a partner or spouse. While I've never experienced discrimination per se, that particular job, it felt more like my colleagues were just uncertain how to behave around me--like they felt like they couldn't talk about spouses and kids, because then I'd mention my husband. Or that it was easier to relegate my family to a "second class" status because it two dads and a dog. It wasn't malicious, but it was a little bit of a reason why I left that position.
Everyone at my job knows i left my wife but only a couple know why. Like George, i worry people will treat me differently if i came out at work.
George, it is NOT your job to make all the people you work with love people from the LGBTQ+ community.
That said, most of the strides made, have come through increased visibility. *Some people legitimately think they've never met a gay person...*
Once people know someone personally who is gay, it can take the fear, the stereotyping, all the misinformation they've been taught, and begin to see we're just like them.
Maybe your co-workers are more adept people than you may have credited them...
Best of luck whichever route you choose.
I’m in a similar company; a large bank who is VERY lgbt supportive so I have no hesitation but I’m still reserved on a 1-on-1 basis w/ coworkers before coming out. I was called a slur by a coworker & rather than cause a fuss I had requested to be moved away from that person but it was escalated & that person got fired. I was guilty for a long time because I don’t like impacting someone’s livelihood but they chose to openly hate & it felt good that my employer fought for me. My team now is very accepting & it’s nice to not walk on eggshells but w/ every new person u have to judge the situation separately
Please do not feel guilt. There is no room for hate in this world.
@@simongoodwin5253 I definitely don’t anymore but at the time I think I’m just a person used to accommodating others so my nature is to inconvenience myself and separate from the situation rather than potentially hurt someone back. In the end he deserved consequences of his actions which I know now being older & having more introspection
Mate you’ve got nothing to feel guilty about that person was horrible and out of order to you and your company stood up for you which is as it should be, hate and bullying has no place in the world especially not at your workplace
It is right to accommodate people but in the end, no one has to put up with aggression at work. He must surely have been given a warning prior to firing, so nothing to feel guilty about. It is not as if people have an obligation to be okay with homosexual people. The issue is that at work we have to be polite so that work can go on unaffected. It was his fault, not yours.
Respectfully, isn’t the walking on eggshells feeling just the “they can tell” feeling? In which case you don’t need to say it?
I am of an age where you could be sacked for coming out at work. Later in my career and while on paper they were "diverse" I can across quite a bit of quite blatent homophobia and also came to the conclusion that "diversity" actually meant "We welcome all people regardless of race, gender, sexuality. As long as they are 25 year old graduates of a Russel Group university"
Towards the end I got fed up with the phrase "male, pale and stale".
Love your jumper Joel! You’re ready for skiing!
I went through this about 20 years ago when things were changing, but not where they are now, especially as far as legal protection for us goes. All I used to do when talking to people was use neutral language, saying partner not boyfriend or girlfriend and not using he or she when referring to my partner. People, no matter how well meaning they are, make assumptions about you in the absence of knowledge. As you get to know work colleagues, you will know who is likely to accept the real you and eventually you can tell them. I usually did so by correcting their assumptions, so if someone made reference to my partner as girlfriend I would point out that my girlfriend was actually a man. It never ended badly, usually the person was embarrassed about their assumption and it took the edge off the conversation. George sounds like he has an inclusive workplace, for me that wasn't ever a thing. I'm with Joel.. its a workplace not a friendship circle, people who have a problem with your sexuality are just work colleagues. They bare the responsibility for behaving in an appropriate manner toward you at work, you shouldnt have to be any different around them. To me, this sounds like George isn't comfortable in his own skin enough, but I find that comes from being accepted. You have to take a chance and trust people will accept. There will always be those that won't, their loss! Unfortunately you will spend your life coming out.. at 50 I recently got asked by a hospital administrator on admission what my wife's name was having answered 'yes' to the "do you have a partner?" question, I just answered Mark. 😂 leaving her quite embarrassed at her question...
I am retired now, but I was fortunate enough to have a career at a fully inclusive place where all were welcome--gay people even celebrated. I so agree that you cannot be happy and healthy while hiding your essential self. Like you guys, I was actually a role model for other gay people. I was blessed in my work life.
Omg I can totally relate to this was a mechanic as a closeted teenager then went to work for a bank when I was 19 and came out and was fully myself but then left that job and went to work for a scrap yard and ended up back in the closet again kept my work life and home life separate which was very stressful keeping up with the lies about “the girlfriend” came out at work 7 years later and my best mate at works response was “did you really think I’d be bothered about that” hasn’t changed our friendship at all everyone’s really supportive and feel so much happier, just be yourself
Great advice. I was “forced” to come out at work by a female colleague who was married to a gay man. She kept making veiled references to my sexuality. I eventually got tired of her controlling me and just came out. Everyone just shrugged their shoulders.
Darlings, believe Me, they already know. So hiding kosts much to much energy, that isn’t worth it. And what for, for those bloody heteros? No never again! Love.
Excellent topic. I am came out later in life after marriage and kids. I had what was already a good career at a large US mid west company ( I am from Canada). I decided to be 100% out in all aspects of my life and coming out at work was part of being 100% me. Turned out the most successful years at work were being me and not holding back who I was, promotions leading inclusion ERG group, conference leadership. I suddenly lost any anxiety I had related to work environment. To me it was a win win for me and the company.
LOVE the fleece!
Love you Gays ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Joel, handsome patterned zip, so VERY different from your usual wardrobe. Colors always look good on you in those rare occasions you wear them.
Have you guys considered doing some kind of debate on a subject? I have at least one topic that could be a debate.
Keegan, "Times are hard."
Well, having to feed two teens, two grown men, and your pets. It's astounding that you have a roof over your heads and petrol in the car. 😃
I'm pretty sure Joel pulls his weigh financially, and also Keegan's ex wife.
The fleece looks nice!
Have Keegan's tattoos naturally faded or are they in the process of being removed? Not important, just interested.
I am doing an experiment. I am now avoiding all Far Left and Centre-Right political videos on CZcams. I have been only watching gay people. I think my depression has been somewhat remedied. If my mother and father didn't happen to be straight my life might be a lot easier.
I've got a few thoughts on this one, which may or may not be helpful, but here you go:
First, I'm assuming that since he's already talking about relationships at work, dude _wants_ to be open about this part of his life - but it bears mentioning that no-one ever owes their colleagues information about their love life; you choose to share that with them, or not, as you see fit.
Second - companies (much like other groupings of people) can talk a lot about diversity and inclusion, but you never really know how that's going to play out for you until you put that to the test in your own life; that being said, the company having policies in place does at least give you (and your livelihood) _legal_ protections if people aren't living up to their nice words. Which, in turn, means that those policies wouldn't be in place if there weren't _someone_ interested in upholding them, somewhere, because - otherwise the policies would just be a liability.
Thirdly, LGBT+ groups are a good thing to have, and should not be under-sold - and that being said, they are still completely dependent on the people who are part of them; whether your _personality_ fits the group can be important in determining how much of a support resource it can provide for you (at least directly), regardless of whether your _sexuality_ comes under their banner - as it's a workplace thing, and directly engaging with your sexuality in the workplace is... not ideal. On the plus side, the existence of a group like this will maintain a background level of awareness of LGBT+ issues in the company, which means if you raise one, you're not going to be seen as having brought in (or worse, _created_ ) that issue just by voicing it. And, there's nothing preventing you from building your own informal, personal support network for LGBT+ stuff in and around work.
Fourthly - software development may be where I get to shed a ray of sunshine in all of this, because I've worked with software development people and regardless of anything else, they are - as a matter of necessity for their job - the sort of people who can look at a thing rationally, break it down and work through it step-by-step, and develop their own understanding of it on the basis of information available. This applies to things other than computer programs, including interpersonal relationships; they might not always come to the conclusions you were expecting, but you can at least be assured they'll _probably_ think things through for themselves (rather than taking a friend or relative's word for it, for instance). They also, in my experience, tend to be the sorts of people who don't mind doing (or being) things without regard to cultivating social status. So, they may make _personal_ judgements about your sexuality, but they're less likely to make _social_ judgements, and it's the social judgements that can be really isolating; those are the ones which propagate and cascade, whereas personal judgements tend to stick with just one person. That person might cause you trouble, but they can't stop everyone else from providing you support.
"Stop looking at yourself", "Why are you saying it in that voice? Just to be as patronising as possible" "We're better than you..." "We're not even nice people. It's all a facade." "...by not nice people..."
I know that a lot of people will complaint about 'positive discrimination' but in the end, it makes up for the other disadvantages your correspondent would have experienced. I feel for him. I have been through that. Thank you for the video!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching 💛
No such thing, that’s just discrimination.