Why are people done with 80s and 90s Basketball?
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- čas přidán 10. 03. 2024
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jordan vs lebron debate got so annoying that i started looking for other GOAT candidates. now tim duncan is my GOAT.
Tim Duncan should unironically be in the goat debate
@@philtheunderachieverfr
LETS GOOOOOOO JOIN THE TIMMY GOSPEL
if anyone says jordan is better then lebron i straight up just say Bill russell is better
KG better
We really let Skip Bayless set the tone of basketball discourse 😢
The biggest hater of all time
Which is crazy because Charles Barkley is infinitely more entertaining.
SKIIIIIUPP
I think it’s all hilarious that basketball fans can’t just give credit to great players without trying to down other eras
This era sucks. It’s unwatchable. You know how I know? Because nobody is watching it. TNT is asking for a huge price cut on the next NBA package because their Thursday games are not pulling viewers.
So even the people who claim to like this era don’t even watch full games. And let me say it with bass…
WATCHING YT AND TIKTOK HIGHLIGHTS DOES NOT MAKE YOU AN NBA FAN.
@@kevinc8955yap fest
@kevinc8955 yeah and disrespecting the 90s players is gonna is going to lose more viewers
@@kevinc8955 Of course the viewership numbers will go down, nobody under the age of 30 has cable anymore, most people only watch ESPN on CZcams not TV. Big games like the Super Bowl or the Finals will get watch time but other than that, social media is where you see the most NBA content which is pulling insane numbers right now.
@@kevinc8955I agree. I'm a very casual NBA watcher. I watch Hawks games and Lakers games for LeBron. Everything else is just unwatchable
I used to participate heavy in GOAT debates especially at the barbershop where every argument veers toward ignorance. After Giannis and the Bucks won a title, I realized that enjoying the basketball right in front of me and going forward is above everything else
Last grasp for bron fans. Jokic is the goat. We’re done with the past.
Jokic cant guard the perimeter
@@thebigmanufacturer You and the Lebron hater are both very wrong and clear haters
@@thebigmanufacturer ya know fair 😂
Arr you stuck in 2003!? Lol, bron averaging over 40% on 3 pt. @@iiiii4388
@@iiiii4388this is his 2nd season shooting 40% from the 3 . what are you talking about
the goat debates has poisoned sports discourse. but i also do feel that the nba has a generational war that doesn't really exist in other sports. Guys like Joe Montana and Barry Sanders are still loved and revered by younger generations, while still giving the new generation their props. A lot of former NBA players also give props to the new generation, but because of a few loud oldheads talking down on the new product, the nephews get tight and want to give them a taste of their own medicine. But it leaves no room for nuance, context or actual understanding of the sport itself. The NBA fanbase is the most toxic and also the most casual IMO of the major 4 leagues. This is why a middle ground is increasingly hard to reach, because of this generational divide and the NBA media's and fandom love for drama and theatrics.
Very true even football (soccer) doesn't have this generation war problem
It’s funny seeing the hypocrisies of the 2 sides. Even in the media, for every Skip Bayless there’s a Shannon Sharpe. The same way Jordan benefitted from recency bias is the same way Lebron has the past decade, I can’t wait for in 10 years when 2010/20s basketball gets the same treatment 80/90s gets
Its marketing business but also human mind in general.
So no, the more league produce money the more these Number/Stat/Legacy matters.
If bull got it right they probably goin to have the most successful business but they couldnt.
That is the reason why Team that always got number 2/3 actually stay on game more than someone who won the champ. Its like after won, you got bunch of curse/passive. Specially if the star under perform.
It happens w nfl just not on the same scale trust if Brady had been on 5 sb people would still be saying joe cool but Brady just shut the door to where it can't really be debated but nfl shit on their current product as well
@@jaridatkinson4907 I mean some older NFL players will say shit like “the game is softer now” and they’re not exactly wrong in that regard but that’s a major reason why so many of those guys still get respect.. because they were tough as hell. But even then you have guys like Earl Campbell who gave Derrick Henry his flowers or guys like Lawrence Taylor who said Aaron Donald was a beast.
Good video Kofie. It’s very disappointing - the legacy debates in basketball are so tiresome, and for whatever reason the changes in rules and strategy in the NBA seem to lend to extreme conflict and toxicity. I love 80s and 90s games on CZcams and watch full games all the time, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to find one of those games without the comments section absolutely FULL of oldheads complaining about traveling, carrying, too many 3s, and how the game was 1000x better back when.
Well, there speaking facts. You can get away with more today.
People who participate in the lebron/jordan debate don’t care about nuance
Exactly. They played different positions, and played in different eras. It's impossible to compare
I actually think it’s the opposite. The goat debate goes into the smallest minute details that would be irrelevant or would not matter if you were having any other discussion
I'm a blazer fan born in 1990, and while my memories of 90s basketball exist they are somewhat hazy due to it being so long ago now. That being said I can definitely confirm that blazer fans did not jump ship onto the rockets when clyde got traded. In fact a lot of blazer fans who were adults back then still hold some resentment, not necessarily over the trade but over the fact that Clyde has really like, i wont say severed ties but it's pretty clear which team and organization he feels more connected to. Which I get, it's where he went to college and it's where he won a championship. But still he spent most of his career up in portland.
Anyways, my point is that it was definitely more of a team-first mentality to fandom, but I also think it's important to remember that you didn't have league pass, online streaming or all these online communities and websites that made it so much easier to follow teams and players outside of your market. It's a lot harder to be a fan of a specific player when you only get to watch them when they're on big national TV games or are playing your local team.
I know what you’re saying. But as a Cavs fan , I still follow the Cavs. I’m not all of a sudden a Lakers fan or ever was a fan of the Heat
Also, NBA teams do a lot of community service. Especially in the hood. I saw a lot of Bucks players help around the community (ei. Boys and Girls Club, School speeches, etc.). It was never just one but a few from the team and a variety of players showed up as well. So I remember them as part of the team growing up, then individuals second.
That’s always been my biggest problem with nba fans. Barely anyone supports a team for life, the thought of supporting a player and jumping from team to team with them is embarrassing
I'm an old head Bucks fan and can say with certainty that SInce we've picked up Dame tens of thousands of Blazer fans are now also Bucks fans.
@@Wallyworld30 Yo a fellow Bucks fan! Ironically, I am loving the bandwagon fans. Milwaukee has never been this popular for ANYTHING!
Something that annoys me about a lot of NBA fans is the constant cynical desire to downplay players' accomplishments. Embiid has the best scoring pace since Wilt Chamberlain = Free Throw Merchant + Playoff Choker. Luka scores 73 points in a game = Nobody plays defense anymore. Jokic doesn't get as much shit as he used to, but I remember when he nonstop got insulted for his weight despite how obviously it didn't impact his ability to play the game. It feels like any time someone drops a great statline people would rather explain how that statline is indicative of some kind of problem with the modern NBA rather than give the players credit for pulling the statline off. Even if you started letting defenders get away with more stuff resulting in a new deadball era, everyone would complain that nobody has 60 point games anymore and that games are slow and boring. The reality is there is no perfect version of the NBA. People will always complain about whatever the current NBA is and look back at an earlier era with rose tinted glasses as how basketball "should be".
Well said. 👏
Somebody called MJ Demar with no left hand and I damn near threw my phone at the wall lmao
😂😂😂😂
I think his name is spelled Dumars. But insane statement in any case.
He meant Demar DeRozan, not Joe Dumars.
Somebody said he was Jaylen Brown with a shoe deal 🤣🤣🤣
ejchelette5986 how does it make the statement any better 😂
Brian Scalabrine the GOAT for real
Nah man it’s Bob Cousy
I saw a bit of this with the Pete Maravich/Caitlin Clark quibble over Clark breaking the NCAA points record; it's a legitimate record that was broken by her, but following that there is backpedaling and hearsay and comparing the competitiveness of their opponents.
Pistol Pete also took 45 shots a game 😂
I think it's because of how sensitive the whole thing is. A female basketball player breaking Pete Maravich's record is huge thus a lot of attention would be put on that. At the same time, the basketball eco system is full of people scared of seeing the greats of their era slandered and thus they can't gracefully pass on the torch
That record had so many variables that should have increased his actual number same with Kareem in college they legit missed a year of eligibility
It’s 1:00 am here in Seattle, but I appreciate the Kofie drop nonetheless.
It's 6pm where I'm at in Japan currently 😅
love Seattle!
Pizza Hut was better in the 80s and the 90s. That shit was genuinely good. Also, bring back the hand check.
Salad bar went hard.
You have NEVER been allowed to defend by restricting offensive movement with your hands, as a defender.
Bringing back the hand check isn't gonna change anything. Guards now attack off the Dribble facing their opponent. Can't hand check that way.
Yea, the recipe changed in the early 2000s, the business model got super cheap, and the rest is unfortunate history.
@@Sn00pE23 Luka said defensive 3s made it easy to score in the NBA, maybe get rid of that one, and let the big man camp in the paint.
The debate has absolutely been beaten into the ground and to death.
I have accepted if you fall on either side, you most likely won’t change your mind. If Lebron won a chip at 40, I already see the debates being “Jordan still has more, 5-6”
@@roscoeorginal personally speaking I actually flipped from bron to Jordan, it really all depends on what criteria you’re picking and valuing.
I'm old enough to remember Jordan dominating and am not taking anything away from him BUT idk why it's Controversial to say the league has got a lot better. That's a good thing. It's what you want to happen. It's the evolution of the sport.
We should be happy that the sport is thriving .
The alternative would look like boxing
I still think he’s the goat but the easiest way to discredit that argument is attacking his era
It’s controversial because it isn’t objective. Define better. I don’t think it is better. That doesn’t make either of us wrong or right, it just means it is controversial to say it. I respect all eras- but my favorite was the 80s. I just like the style better 🤷♂️
@@sirbradfordofhousejonesRatings are gone
The two best players in todays league are fat white guys from Europe who can barely dunk.
I would like to hear what makes the league better today. We've heard that the league tried to address the flopping, they just addressed the players excessive load management (64 games is still a low bar), and they're trying to address the lack of defense going forward. So what exactly makes the league today better, when the NBA players, coaches and commissioner admit there are these huge flaws in today's game.
A decent amount of fans these days didn't even start tuning in until Kobe was on his last legs and LeBron was in Miami
Who the fuck eats at a Domino's
I have always been a fan of the Bulls when MJ played there, but I didn't become a Wizards fan when he played there. Still a Bulls fan now and it hurts to see them try to build a team but somehow fail along the way. Don't even start with losing DRose due to injury, that still brings tears to my eyes sometimes. Yeah, I can see that most fans are now more loyal to the superstars themselves and not to teams.
I'm with ya. Been a Bulls fans since 87, and I still cheer for my Bulls...as much as it hurts these days. lol
I was finding the “we’re so done with” thing funny right up until they started spinning up the conspiracy that Wilt Chamberlain’s 100-point game didn’t happen. Now I’m just annoyed by the whole thing. 😅
I genuinely think half of those ppl are just joking in the sense that its ridiculous how it seems that is the ONLY thing in the 60’s that doesn’t have film.
Bro we’ve seen footage of damn near EVERYTHING except that 100 point game at this point, also the fact it was 100 even like not 99 not 103 is what makes it kinda of believable as a conspiracy lol
I’m startin to believe he ain’t do it
blud doesnt realize that he can choose how much points he gets he even said he had aopen shot to get 102 but didnt take it@@SleepyGrapes
we do not have any film of sixties ball unless it is the playoffs because cameras were expensive and the nba wasnt as popular@@silversoulken
This is so different from MLB, where people have no issue saying the best player played decades or over 100 years ago. Shohei Ohtani being compared to Babe Ruth is the highest complement he could receive and Babe Ruth was playing a century ago!
The movement should have been "we're done with Jordan and Lebron"
The Jordan Lebron debate is stupid. Why can’t we just let players have their own legacies and move on?
Us Blazers fans have gone on to supporting the Bucks not because we just love dame (which we still do anyways) but because we watched as our team (mainly that complete asswipe Olshey) didn’t do a lick to give our guy the support he really needed to contend and we are rooting for him to get what we believe he’s worked his ass off for. He deserves a team that has really good players besides a CJ McCollum. Love that bro too but it wasn’t cutting it.
to me the jordan lebron debate is almost identical to the pele maradona debate in soccer - both in play styles and accomplishments (although lebron is not a hedonistic media sensation/tragic hero figure). for a long time in soccer you had your pele pragmatists (he won three world cups/1000 goals etc.) and your maradona romantics (he won argentina and napoli trophies basically on his own, didn't score or win as much as pele did but was a genius on the ball in a way stats can't measure). maybe in the decades to come we'll see a basketball cr7 and messi rivalry, where it becomes so clear by the end of it that while basketball messi wins, basketball's pele (jordan) and maradona (lebron) are just greats from a time when basketball was very different.
This was a great video! Well done! Just appreicate all eras for what they are. I like you are 28 but still willing to highlight some of the good things about eras that you personally did not witness or were apart of. We need more of this.
The game has changed. The floor is more streched out and some rules limit defense. Lets see how this will unfold.
Same with Football only they seem to accept the game for what it is rather than argue stupid points, like no you aren't going to convince me the average 90's player is a better defender than the guys who have to play defense without hand-checking against the most athletically gifted fundamentally sound players thus far... Shaq never had to guard someone like Giannis or Embiid. The glove wasn't chasing around guys like Curry and Luka and Shai and Ja, the comparisons are just dumb
The reason they packed the lanes in the 90s was because they were trash and couldn’t shoot. NBA even shortened the 3pt line but still trash. Players today are better. Lets not talk about defense…. You cant even double team in the 90s because its considered as an illegal defense. Imagine Luka, SGA, Book, KD on an island with no help defense lmao, they will cook.
@@jeyj4372 You absolutely can double team in the 90's lmao stop acting like you know anything. What you're not allowed to do is defend no one, you can't just sit around in an area, which is what's known as the "zone defense" today. If you wanted to double or even triple team pre-2000, you had to fully commit to it.
That said, that is one of the rules that was not reinforced all the time, if you catch some of the games, you will see that teams still utilized zone defense back then. It gets called occasionally but not very often. There are even compilation of zone defense you could find on this platform. NBA coaches from that era even said that they play the zone sometimes.
You brought up Luka, well, Luka actually said that the defensive 3s made it very easy to score in today's NBA. Big men today could not camp in the paint.. guess what? Big men in the 90's could. In today's NBA, you could simply wait for the big man to clear out the paint and drive to score.
And if you know anything about zone defense, you would realize that not many teams today actually play the zone defense. JJ Redick had a podcast with Tim Legler where they said that the only team that practices zone defense and regularly use it is the Miami Heat. Most teams do not practice zone defense, nor do they use it a lot in games. Most of the time, teams still use man-to-man defense, just like it was in the 90's.
It's very unfortunate that a lot of NBA fans today do not understand the game, nor do they try to.
Nah, it's just lebron fans looking for lowlights.
I came for the sports, stayed for the hats
Been a Bucks fan since Ray Allen's rookie contract. After he left to Supersonics, we all were pissed but Michael Redd was the next man up. People root for players to do well but never at the expense of their team. I am a team first fan. If anything, what made people leave for another team is bad coaching or management. I have seen fans give up on a team because the owners were so bad. The Bucks were at least competitive enough over the years to keep everyone interested during the cold winter months. Even now, we as a fan base are grateful to even be in a top seed position and we have a CHIP!!! You don't get that feeling rooting for players as much. It's more like a "good for him" vibe.
Also, NBA teams do a lot of community service. Especially in the hood. I saw a lot of Bucks players help around the community (ei. Boys and Girls Club, School speeches, etc.). It was never just one but a few from the team and a variety of players showed up as well. So I remember them as part of the team growing up, then individuals second. I learned the players' names so I knew who to play as on 2K or Live at the time 🤣🤣.
knew it would get to this point. If MJ stans would just let the new gen have something. like holy shit. never heard an old head give one positive take ab the NBA. i’m 33 and it’s fucking annoying to talk ball w someone who is 40. it’s actually insane.
The players did give the new NBA praises, few seasons ago when Charlotte hosted the NBA All Star game, Jordan literally talked about the current game and gave them praises. AI gives praises to everyone, Kobe too.
If you're talking about the fans, what's there to give praise about? It is true that flopping is a huge problem in the NBA in the 2010's, it is true that inability to play defense is a huge problem in the 2020's. Gambling/rigging games is also a huge problem in today's NBA. These are all true.
I am not an old head, but I am not blind to these problems either. Remember when KD was on the Warriors, he had this one play where he was literally out of bound at the sideline with a ref literally standing in front of him, and the ref somehow missed that call? The players couldn't even criticize the refs without getting fined by the league, even if the players were right???
The game is getting worse, and if you're a real fan of the NBA, you would try to stop the bleeding instead of letting it die. Blaming the "old heads" for things that they're right about is crazy.
hahahahahahahahaha
@@ProfJonJon This is why it's impossible to have a proper conversation on the internet these days.
Sure, nobody is stopping you from liking a version of the NBA where a lot of players do not take regular season serious (80% of the games including postseason), an issue that even the NBA themselves addressed by adding the "in-season tournament", but don't cry about people that have a problem with it lmao.
@@zxcvb3772 why would you take any convo on the internet serious? lmao. shoulda just let me lol.
everything you've said is drenched in media talking points, bias clip chimp highlights, or interviews. nothing im going to say, even if i had refutable evidence against every single one of your points, wouldn't change a thing. so why bother? you have your opinion that i think is hilariously bad, and wrapped in bad faith, and i have mine. take it easy bud.
@@ProfJonJon There is a difference between having a serious conversation and taking conversation on the internet serious. It's clear you're incapable/uninterested in it, even though you still seem to want to chip in on this topic for some reason.
Try it, try refuting problems even the NBA themselves admitted to LMFAO. Adam Silver literally said they will try to fix the defense problem for the next season.
Players not taking the regular season serious is a real problem, go look up the main reason in season tournament is introduced to the NBA. Hell, don't stop there, go look up the reason play in tournament is introduced to the NBA.
Rudy Gobert and many other players accuse the refs of betting on games and rigging games too, and the NBA do nothing about those refs and continue to let them refs important games. There is even a ref that beefs with CP3, how is he allowed to continue reffing, at all? Lmao.
You can try to deny all these all you want, I could look up what NBA players, NBA coaches and NBA commissioner said about these exact problems that the current NBA face.
Few things:
1) Stars from previous generations didn't move around as much. Just from the generation Lebron inherited: Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, Paul Pierce, Reggie Miller, Hakeem, Malone/Stockton, Ewing & many more played their whole career (or at least the overwhelming bulk of it) with one team, so this really wasn't an issue.
2) Player rivalries (and team loyalty) makes sense in an era where players individual brand are often as strong as the team brand. "Our economy runs on Lebron James" from the Cleveland song.
3) I think today's fan is also more savvy about the idea that professional sports is a business & that everyone involved is business-minded. The idea of "team loyalty" is really sort of an outdated sucker mentality (either from a player or a fan) given the ruthless landscape of the industry. And I don't think the ruthless landscape is new, but fans viewing sports with "KOC asset brain" disease is a recent development that we never thought about in the 90s.
I think the main problem is not keeping the main thing the main thing. Ignorant debates are a fun side show, but real, good analysis about what is currently happening should be the main focus.
Modern players are certainly more skilled than those of the past, but I imagine the guys from the past would be just as good if brought up today.
It’s a lot of fun to go back and watch the average NBA game on 5 year increments to see how everything has evolved.
This trend is why i stick to baseball discourse. The GOAT debate in baseball is honestly fascinating, and there are at least a dozen people usually named for that spot.
Baseball is a very numbers heavy game that we know how good a player was regardless of era. We have era and ballpark adjusted stats.
Despite having every number imaginable, there still is no consensus goat. Ohtani and Trout are both in the GOAT debate despite both being many years away from retirement. They have 1 playoff win between the two of them.
Some people pick Bonds because he is simply the best player skill and talent wise. No one was ever better than him.
The equivalent to Bonds in basketball would be Kareem, but with Magic's passing and Curry's shooting... but zero rings. That is what bonds was in baseball over a 20-year career.
But because he used steroids the last 7 years of his career, he isn’t in the HoF and will never truly be in goat talks.
I'm ranting, but we are seeing the NFL become the nba is rapid succession with GOAT talks. If Mahomes really does continue on this career path, we will see a Jordan vs Lebron level debate start
The difference between Brady vs Mahomes and Jordan vs Lebron is that Mahomes actually do seem to have a case if he wins a few more rings. Lebron does not have a single case against Jordan, but Lebron fans couldn't put aside their bias for their favorite player, and had to insist that he's better than Jordan.
In Mahomes case, he did not have to form superteams to win, even when he lost one of his best weapons, he still performed, and led his team to multiple conference appearances and superbowls, and he's making the Chiefs a dynasty, which Lebron never had. The argument against him would be that Brady stopped Mahomes from winning 2 more titles in a head to head, which is a very fair argument against him, but Mahomes with a few more titles is still closer to Brady than Lebron ever was to Jordan, objectively speaking.
In conclusion, I agree that baseball is more interesting now. I just got into baseball recently thanks to Shohei and it's fun. Can't wait for the season to start.
This is the sports version of ‘Okay, Boomer’
I’m pretty sure 65-70% of all sports related glazing is concentrated on this debate, I’m just happy it isn’t overly friendly
W One Piece outfit bro 🔥🔥
From my point of view MJ fans and Bron fans are insufferable and both had a hand in this phenomenon we're seeing. To say that one party is blameless is just not seeing the full extebt of the damage theze two groups have done to basketball discussion in general
the greatness of new eras is the ultimate gift from its predecessors. knocking on young players for their era should be considered disrespectful to the old players- those are their kids and students yk. the game we have now is a result of them, so let it be worth praise. MJ & Lebron have made the whole sport better, and they share more greatness together than they ever could've had by themselves.
man, how tf you gonna wear a folgers hat when maxwell house hats are better by literally every single measurable??
Imagine LeBron hearing all this “were done with the 90s” BS. Who do you think he grew up watching, who he based his game on? Players are almost always showing love to the greatest of the prior generations because they, unlike casual fans, understand that the sport of basketball is a building built on the foundation of what came before
gotta give props to Kofie for the drip. One Piece jersey and a folgers snapback is unique to say the least.
Aint no fun when the rabbit got the gun
These oldheads have spent YEARS on social media, national tv and in their daily lives slandering modern basketball. Now they wanna cry wolf when someone actually "watches the games". Give me a break
Most people think Jordan is better. Rings are better than longevity stats.
@upfulsoul826 im not even on about the goat debate itself. I dont mind if you prefer one or the other. Im just laughing at these oldheads who have been calling my gen soft since i was a kid acting like babies because someone posted jordan missing jaylen brown esque layups
@@upfulsoul826by your own logic bill Russell and Robert horry better than MJ. Lmaoooo
i mean fr. I grew up watching 80s and 90s ball but there's a lot of it I'm glad is gone. it hasn't aged well.
so i'm here for watching the crying oldheads get dunked on.
@@bignut3348 This difference is MJ dominated when he won the triple twice. He was never carried like Bill Russell. Bron is great but he's not greater than Jordan.
jordan fans comparing lebron ???? that doesn't even sound right
There was one bit on Seinfeld about sports fans being fans of the laundry, with hating and loving players based on what uniform they wear, so from that perspective being a fan of a player makes more sense.
I'm older than most people who watch. I'm in my 50s and I got to watch the NBA from the '80s until now. The interesting thing to me is that no one debated the GOAT during the '80s. It didn't become a discussion point until Jordan in the '90s.
Same thing goes for finals MVP. No one cared about it to Michael Jordan. There was never a discussion about how James Worthy won finals MVP in 1988 and how that impacted Magic Johnson's legacy.
these LBJ people are not sitting eating pizza minding their own business. they have been sitting there screaming about how "this is best pizza ever made" but they only ever eaten one type of pizza. it's annoying. The GOAT arguments are dumb overall but it is most abrasive when it is had by people too young to have any real basis for comparison. (same with oldheads who don't watch/discount modern ball)
as an older fan. The team was the first priority so my favorite player always came from MY team so if he left, I would no longer be as much of a fan, or worse.
Legacy debates are stupid af. At least people are actually watching film cause most fans dont even watch games
What about 20 years of lebron comparing himself to Jordan? This isn’t a one way street
Nah there are bad games from all players and they are using certain clips and lowlights and certain games to try and put down the past historical players that helped make the nba as popular as it is. There is no other sports Fandom that shits on its past more than nba fans now a days. Other sports fans understand rules and circumstances are different for different eras and decades yet we don't do the same and it's just sad. And saying lebron has been one of the scrutinized players is ridiculous things because the best players have always been scrutinized until they prove people wrong. At this point all nba fans are just annoying because they are constantly trying to defend or attack players and this goes for the old and young. We can't just talk sports and be civil. It's hard for anyone to have a better career than jordan but dumping on lebron and saying he was a bum always is just ridiculous and doesn't actually help progress the game to something that can be the best it can be
the plants on the right of the screen being green screened made me laugh
Yes, I grew up in 80's and 90's and when Charles Barkley left for Phoenix first thing I did was buy a Barkley Suns Jersey. Having said that I was actually a Bucks fan the entire time but Sir Charles was my favorite player. I even got to watch him live at the Bradley Center in Milwaukee when he was still a Sixer.
2 different players from 2 different eras of the NBA with 2 different sets of rules and regulations and styles of play, 2 people with 2 different body types and abilities at and around the rim. Both are champions and went about getting those multiple rings each in 2 different ways. MJ is a HOFer and when Bron retires he will be as well. Why cant 2 legends coexist?
I need more Kofie rants
In the 90s team loyalty trumped player fandom. If your favorite player moved you would support them unless they played your/hometown team. It was much more about team community than player cult of personality, weird parasocial stuff wasn't really prevalent like it is today either.
So done with the 90's really should be so So Done With The NBA. Their ratings are terrible, and feel free to make a video to explain what happened there.
It was all fun and games until I saw a cut up of Jordan getting cooked by Drexler with the caption "this your king?" and like wtf am I doing here man
I was a jazz fan growing up and I remember myself and my friwnds being upset when Karl Malone joined the lakers. We definitely didn't even consider rooting for the lakers.
I want to know how much of the majority of the fanbase of NBA are old heads who have been looking down on the NBA after the 90s and how many are younger generation of fans who haven't watched the 90s.Like is there a room for any new fanbase with different Goat other than Jordan?
In the 90s, if my favorite player left their team, I'd probably be too hurt to cheer for them on another team. Especially if they choose to leave. But I'd still respect the player, ultimately, when they retired. But I'm still cheering on my team, regardless.
-An Atlanta Hawks fan
never understood that “long 2” era. you can legit take one step backwards and take a shot that is honestly no different than the one you would have taken anyway, and you get an extra point. if you’re gonna shoot a midrange shot, then you can take one in that 15-18ft range
It was even more egregious when they would catch it outside the arc, pump fake, and then take a step in to shoot
I think there is an idea that in offense the goal is to score. The tactics set up were to try and get the highest chance to score, not necessarily to win the game.
It seems obvious now with analytics to prove the midrange is inefficient compared to a 3, but the logic I heard from coaches as a kid all through the 90's was equally obvious to us then: the closer you are to the hoop, the easier the shot is, and if it's easier you'll make it more often. Defenses were clogging the lane a lot so taking the just inside the line 2's was basically the baby version of more modern floor spacing
It’s no different than current players NOT using the backboard to bank their shots when it’s literally there and destined to be used that way.
Not everyone was a steph curry back then. As a Pisons fan, I never once complained that Hamilton, Prince, or Rasheed took long 2s because they weren't as high percentage at 3's.
I watch the NBA now and I see people take early threes that they have no business taking. I don't think that's better than a long two or trying to establish a post up player.
More players are better at threes now, so it makes sense now, but that wasn't always the case.
I don’t do goat debates anymore not gone argue about somebody’s feelings with them. But I think that the lebron hating was beyond him, people have been saying that the 90s were better since I remember so I can imagine how the younger generation feels when people say that oh modern basketball is bad. This is the push back and I’m not gonna lie it is hilarious. But hey this is what happens when people are haters more than fans. You don’t see this shit happening with the NFL. Nobody gets online or on tv and says Justin Jefferson would be a bum if he played in the 90s
There is just no agreeing to disagree anymore. There's so many people who just feel like their opinion has to be right, and if you disagree with them, you're wrong
If you’re constantly telling someone dominos is better now than it used to be someone can correct you. Don’t wanna be corrected be quiet or have a convo.
I’m 42 I’m done with them boring one game a week on nbc bs lol
Some people just get really upset that other people don’t agree with them so they make fallacious arguments, happens with both Jordan and Lebron.
im so done with 2020s basketball tbh
i dont watch tiktok, so i never heard of this trend. But as a guy in his 30s this is the most tuned out ive been on the NBA since I started watching in 3rd or 4th grade
The same 2020 fans that complain about all-star weekend.
Half of these "Jordan fans" aren't even basketball fans. Just trolls looking to attack LeBron. Kobe was compared first son was gran Hill son was Penny. Saying it's "LeBron " fans is crazy. Are Curry fans supporting the 80s? No. Are Luka fans ? Joker fans?
People have let trolls take over conversations that never existed before
I think most people back in the day followed a team more than an individual player.
As a sports fan and a person who works in media from the Midwest, I've had to shut off the sports debate programs just because it's clear, even though they try to appear like they're experts, they don't watch NEAR enough that you think they do. Neither do I since the local Fox Sports/Bally/Whatever of the future switched from being a T-Wolves affiliate to a Nuggets affiliate, but the entire "they NEED to trade Towns for Ben Simmons," and "did the T-Wolves trade their future for Gobert?" was just spewing repeated nonsense from people who didn't know what they were talking about in the first place.
The problem with Minnesota wasn't they needed a REAL star. They needed their star to not be the ONLY answer and get beaten up driving into the lane and shaking off an entire team through the whole season after their 3-point efficiency goes down. It's easy for Jimmy Butler to clown Towns because by that point, he was EXHAUSTED, especially under Thibs. It's a basic thing to notice if you watched ONE game, which they clearly didn't. It's not better for analysis around here because of monoculture, and it's so much easier to be a fanboy at whatever gets attention. As a soccer fan, it's likely your local sports guy barely knows ANYTHING of your MLS team unless it's their only thing.
And all of this is easier in quote tweet culture. Musk even set up people to get PAID through that kind of engagement, and people STILL can't stop. It's like 30 cents because Musk and his supporters are complete idiots, but NOBODY can accept the only way to win is to not play this game, but they can't stop because they've gone too deep on attaching their identity to these teams/players that any other opinion has to be dunked on, and they are SO easy to play even after demonstrable evidence that all you're doing is making the people you hate MORE popular and rich. It's the sports equivalent of the day I dread when I write my great American novel, and NOBODY will support it because they're too busy driving the New York Times' number through the roof dunking on conservative Governor Baron von Spider's editorial talking about how trans people are radioactive goo. The WarGames computer is so confused,
I miss the 90s but more for the music than the basketball. GOAT debates are retarded because nobody is willing to make an objective criteria and risk ending the discussion.
If we're so done with the 80s and 90s, then why are you replacing my Kofie with FLAVOR CRYSTALS?!
I commented this in another video
Bashing eras was ok until the 80s and 90s got included. You would always hear that the greats of the 60s and 70s played against plumbers and mailmen and most people were either ok with it or agreed but say that Jordan couldn’t go left (because who could stop him going right) and now “Old heads unite!”
A lot of people bashed the 70's because most of the talents were in the ABA and not in the NBA. There are a lot of people who bashed the 50's and 60's though saying those players were mailmen and milkmen, I personally don't. I just don't know how to rate those players because it was an era where centers were averaging 30 rebounds a game, which sounds ridiculous by modern standard.
By the way, the claim that Jordan couldn't go left is false, which caused the huge uproar. On some of Jordan's most iconic plays, he went left.
If your favorite player went to another team back in the day, good luck watching them play again lol. You only had access to certain games. No league pass, no CZcams. No streaming. You may see them 2-3 times a year.
I don't really remember but in the 90s I think it could be harder to follow a player bc you couldn't watch if it wasn't on your local channels. At least not as easily as you can today. And even if you had the channel recording was on vhs, required no one to change the channel, and nothing else to go wrong. It was a different time for recording.
Just making up arguments. Internet being the internet. People are like yeah...
"But I would say that scoring is easier in the NBA just because of the different rules, the amount of space, the time, so that's why I said it's easier to score in the NBA."
“Everybody says my game looks easy. It’s not easy. Trust me," said Doncic. "But when I said that [about the NBA] many people didn't agree with me. I think now they are starting to agree more and more, but I always say it's because of the rules. The three seconds in the paint in defense is huge, I don't think people realize how huge that is. Because when I'm iso-ing, I watch the defender in the paint because he's got to go out at some point. When he's going out, I try to attack."
- Luka Doncic
No one but lebron stans were comparing him a rookie that had done nothing to jordan 20 years ago...
Your not just try to enjoy watching someone play once your calling them the GOAT...
Great video as always… but ive never met a person who has sat down and eaten at a dominos location before
My man he can win 7 titles. We are talking about their game. Kobe’s game is better. I have eye balls. That’s how I know they are better
It's not harder to play defense in today's game they don't put the effort into it. I like watching defensive games so I pay attention. The weak defensive stances and the mental errors you see it all through every era you can tell who puts the work in.
Why does this toxic generational discourse thrive so much in basketball compared to other sports? While it exists in Football and Baseball, for instance, nobody is going this much out of their way to say that Dan Marino was a bum or some shit.
my favorite is still early 90's to mid 00's. 80's, ehh, it was ok, and 2010's to now, el softo. Even euro players think it's soft these days compared to overseas.
During covid the NBA uploaded some older games and it eas really dun to see uow different the game was and how its progressed now
Skills debate in GOAT argument is just stupid imo.
Every NBA era is more skillful than the one before, Kevin Johnson is a better player than Oscar Robertson, John Wall is a better player than Kevin Johnson, but if I had to rank them in terms of greatness:
1. Oscar
2. KJ
3. Wall
Greatness should be determined relative to the era, it’s not Oscar Robertson’s fault that he could tween tween hesi splash and he shouldn’t be taxed for it
80s, 90s and early 2000s basketball are all acquired tastes. Nobody likes the current NBA, even the people who are so done with whenever.
I’m going to speak for myself as a Jordan fan the reason LeBron can never surpass Jordan as the goat to me is because he already has his finals losses with a big meltdown in 11 and he had to run to another superstars team to learn how to win
Hey Kofie, how do I get into Sports Media with the express purpose to use it as a stepping stone to becoming your friend one day?
FUNNY HOW ITS LEGIT WHEN YOU THEY MAKE THESE VIDEOS AGAINST LEBRON!!!
Loved the video great overall great opinion about sports in general not just the nba alone when it comes to the discussion of eras and the greatness of players. To me the GOAT debate has gotten past stale to the point of the debate its self becoming cliche almost parody of what a sports discussion should be about. As someone who loves both MJ and LBJ, why can’t we as a society just enjoy the greatest from both?
Because sport is competition, and sometimes these players themselves say they are the goat or why arent they the goat. The problem is putting people in conversations they don't belong in or just upping that one player just off numbers alone and not context.
90s basketball fan here, grew up watching the Jordan Era.
When Shaq, easily my favorite player at the time, left the Magic, he became dead to me for over a decade. Pretty sure the Magic fanbase didnt dwindle much after he left, we just stuck around to root for Penny….even though that didnt end well either 😵💫
Every chance Lebron gets he's disrespecting Jordan, him and his flunkies.. what are we talking about here? Lebron wanted to be compared to or surpass Jordan. Lebron wore Jordan's number in the beginning remember that.
All eras in NBA history were just fine on its own until someone claimed to be the greatest in all eras. That is when shit started to happen. I cant wait for that shit to retire and exposed for PEDs. When all things clears up, we can restore order from Russell, Kareem, Magic, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Curry and now Jokic and no more clowns hopefully in the future.
Hey kofie, love the videos man!
I just wanted to say, I think you flip flopped your outro and intro! I could be wrong, though!
We really losing contact because it's not Jordan vs Lebron anymore the new debate going be who's going be better than wemby
The 90s side of the argument definitely deserves it for lying for so long. All my life I was told the 90s were the best era of all time and everyone got worse at basketball after.
2000s fan here from Minnesota, when KG left us, I rooted for him with the Celtics and rooted for the Celtics because I knew we were never getting him the ring he deserved out here
your a true fan, i felt the same way w lebron. lebron never wins a ring if he stays in cleveland his entire career.
People wouldn't be so aggressive about it if every single piece of basketball media since 2003 didn't revolve around LeBron. The Nuggets win their first ever NBA championship and they're still talking about LeBron. Kobe statue = LeBron. Damian Lillard to the Bucks = LeBron somehow. The Chiefs win a Super Bowl = LeBron. Every post on ESPN's insta is LeBron becomes the first player in history to score 3 points on a Tuesday after eating tuna salad made by a Filipino immigrant.