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Great video. The only criticism I have or maybe it's my lack of understanding is that I have no idea why you state to increase protein requirements above .8 gm per kg. Maybe I've missed something here. It'd be great to help me out here. Is there any valid science to state this point ?
We all know you're a liar Simon... There isn't a single study on earth showing the more carbs you eat and the less animals the better, not one! But there is evidence that a vegan diet, which foods are inferior in protein, calcium, zinc, iron, B12, K2, vit D etc.. there is evidence vegan is harmful ESPECIALLY to children who end up smaller and have lower bone mineral content. Not to mention a super high carb diet leads to CVD. Meat is superior for human development of the brain, muscles, skeleton for performance, recovery and longevity. This is why vegans/vegetarians have to compare their diets to the average American diet.. because that's all they can because diets with a mix of beef, turkey, chicken, salmon, quails, eggs, kefir etc alongside low-moderate carbs is superior.
Here the title says it all. " Dietary protein intake in midlife in relation to healthy aging - results from the prospective Nurses’ Health Study cohort Andres V Ardisson Korat M Kyla Shea Paul F Jacques A Heather Eliassen Walter C Willett Qi Sun All together now what does that say..midlife. Plant chompers and all the rest will be applying this within the overall context of for all, not the elderly. Who do you think will watch plant chompers with great interest, some young buck or as the author of that is .elderly, who?. The young buck will be watching sports based nutritional content, typically if they are interested in nutrition at all. Oldsters will be watching plant chompers by demographic study. I have not done one but can say that with confidence, a older viewing group. Look at the guy...what do you see? The elderly have specific protein requitements above that of a mid life person if they resistance train or are very active. This specific has been addressed in study. It is as per example the study of longevity itself. What is the longevity expected af a american child at age one as opposed to the life expectancy of a average american 70 year old? The one year old will top out at below 80 the seventy years old will be found above 80. Longevity study is a function of what...age. So study groups in longevity are defined by what...age groupings. You must specify midlife if you are to verse on the topic. Not one diet is proven best for all, and not all protein requirements are best for all age groups.Protein requirements you and I both know, differ significantly as attributable to assimilation capacity in variance with age. I am not disputing your overall consideration plant verses animal, but this must be stated. Dairy some conditions of cancer it is theorized are protective by dairy. That suggested by seventh day study results. Women do better than men longevity considered, and vegan woman live longest of all, but not vegan men.. Vegan men do not live longest under study of men only in consideration. So it gets quite specific as to gender and also as mentioned age. One addition worth noting we suffer different cancer types by gender as life ending events.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I wish the study separated out fish protein, considering Valter Longo seems to suggest mostly vegetables with occasional fish seems to be optimal. Maybe that's wrong or maybe that's right, but I don't understand why there's not a closer look at fish protein vs other proteins.
I listened to this yesterday on Spotify, awesome breakdown!! I really love your attitude with fact checking - no ego, respectful. The nutrition space really needs that, it can be so toxic for content creators.
The video of what Simon claims to be "misrepresentations" by Dr Lyon are biased for may reasons: 1. He fact checks people who are never present to rebuttal what he says. It's like being in court with only the prosecution and no defence. 2. It's easy to put a case against somebody's claims when they aren't there to cross question back and to assess the validity of the research. 3. One of America's top heart surgeons Philip Ovadia MD author of Stay Off My Operating Table is an also huge proponent of meat as a source of protein. 4. The leading Dr in the USA on longevity of life Dr Peter Attia also eats meat as a source of protein his book Outlive covers this. 5. In the study he used to claim Dr Lyon "misrepresented" it included Kangaroo and Lamb both meats that do not feature in Dr Lyons books as key source of protein for a muscle centric diet BUT YET you've included it in your so called claims of misrepresentation evidence. 5. Plant foods are less protein dense than animal foods therefore you need to eat a larger quantity of plant based foods in comparison to animal protein so how do you get enough protein via a plant based diet?
This is the best talk on protein I have ever heard. 👏💪🙏I am organizing a TEDx Longevity Day and need a talk on protein and longevity. I'm gonna see if one of these authors can give it, although you would give it better than almost anyone. 😎
@@lynnritchie231 I'm working on getting Heather Eliassen, a Harvard professor and one of the authors to give it. She looks like she'd have good stage presence: czcams.com/video/SK9hO0FUaBc/video.htmlsi=h7gJoHNNT1AsHigS
That's so silly. Every one is an individual. My mom was a nurse and was extremely healthy. She lived to be in her nineties .. no dementia,no health issues at all. She was. The happiest person I've ever. Known she worked till she was eighty.
Nah you need a course in population statistics. Your "known a lot" doesn't match up against the amount of people researched. Also did you see that this is a study started 30 years ago? Maybe the nurse back then were much healthier. Your claim only shows we might be mistreating and underpaying some of our essential citizens leading to bad outcomes.
Simon does such a good job of communicating scientific data. I love that he is so level-headed and unbiased in his interpretations. It means I can trust him. Thanks Simon!
Your channel is my favorite channel by far. I really appreciate your even approach and lack of hype. Really enjoyed your book The Proof is in the Plants. Thank you!
@@jellybeanvinkler4878At least he lets you know what animal products are healthier than others, like he would do for anything else. Cutting out red meat and dairy is probably better for you, but small fish or chicken is probably much better for you, and for the planet. Better to improve than to ignore completely.
@@mikafoxx2717 have a look at Ryan Fernando, the #1 nutritionist in Bharat. He is vegan, but not advocating his clients and followers for plant based diet. He is 50 yrs old, but literally doesn't look more than 35-ish. Another new study is so called Blue Zones, they eat 95% plant based. So, maybe there is something in that way of eating ))
Correction. I work with nurses, and as a whole they are certainly not more health conscious than the general population. Based on my estimates, they are likely similarly health conscious compared to the norms. Plenty of inactive, overweight, stressed to the max nurses out there eating processed foods
I can’t speak historically about nurses, but I am attending cardio rehab in a major city and can attest that every.single.nurse running the program is overweight to very overweight. Since I excercise around the lunch hour, I see all the junk food and soda the rest of the hospital nurses purchase. Maybe the healthy nurses were fired back in 2021.
It's not a correction. The statement was based on the individuals in this study. So the data is relevant to healthy-eating individuals. Maybe it is true that, in general, nurses are just "normal" consumers. But that doesn't take anything away from this study.
This study started 30 years ago and has a different population and socio economic differentiation within the public space than the ones you are talking about. So no.. No "correction". You just do not understand how research population selection works.
Simon's not as easily sidelined as Lyle McDonald[1] made himself, so yeah it'll be interesting to see if there is a response and the form it takes. [1] speaking as someone who'll listen to Lyle before Layne, Attia, Huberman but after Simon, Gil, Chris and Garth Davis.
I really enjoyed the video and your analysis. I’m not vegan I eat dairy and other animal products but I appreciate the truth. I’m a fan of Layne but he needs to respond to the things he either missed or didn’t represent properly. Thanks. ❤
The video of what Simon claims to be "misrepresentations" by Dr Lyon are biased for may reasons: 1. He fact checks people who are never present to rebuttal what he says. It's like being in court with only the prosecution and no defence. 2. It's easy to put a case against somebody's claims when they aren't there to cross question back and to assess the validity of the research. 3. One of America's top heart surgeons Philip Ovadia MD author of Stay Off My Operating Table is an also huge proponent of meat as a source of protein. 4. The leading Dr in the USA on longevity of life Dr Peter Attia also eats meat as a source of protein his book Outlive covers this. 5. In the study he used to claim Dr Lyon "misrepresented" it included Kangaroo and Lamb both meats that do not feature in Dr Lyons books as key source of protein for a muscle centric diet BUT YET you've included it in your so called claims of misrepresentation evidence. 5. Plant foods are less protein dense than animal foods therefore you need to eat a larger quantity of plant based foods in comparison to animal protein so how do you get enough protein via a plant based diet?
I wish instead of lumping all the animal-proteins together, they would analyze poultry, red meat and fish separately. It is a possibility that fish has some positive effect on memory, and in this case we will not be able to know that.
That’s certainly true which is why my statement at the end included fish, eggs and fermented dairy as the animal proteins that I would recommend to someone eating an omnivorous diet. In addition to plenty of. Legumes, nuts seeds etc
Yeah, we know saturated fat isn't good for you. And that comes with certain forms, whereas something like sardines have low heavy metals and omega 3's which are usually lacking in diets, all diets.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill In 2023, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations published a document named "Contribution of terrestrial animal source food to healthy diets for improved nutrition and health outcomes". Will it be possible for you to review it and make a video on it? There are many claims in that document: i. "A robust evidence base shows that milk and dairy consumption during pregnancy increases infant weight at birth and may also increase birth length and foetal head circumference" ii. "Evidence shows that consumption of milk and dairy products by school-age children and adolescents increases height and reduces overweight and obesity. Beef consumption in this life-course phase has been shown to improve cognitive outcomes." iii. "In adults, findings largely indicate that eating milk and dairy products, specifically yoghurt, has positive effects in terms of reducing risk of all-cause mortality, hypertension, stroke, type 2 diabetes, colorectal cancer, breast cancer, obesity, osteoporosis and fractures." iii. "A fairly strong evidence-base shows that lean red meat consumption has positive effects on muscle health. Other evidence suggests that milk and dairy products and other TASFs have a potential role in mitigating sarcopenia (muscle loss), fractures, frailty, dementia and Alzheimer’s disease."
When I saw the data on the screen I went right for p values and hazard ratios which immediately stuck out for plant protein. Knowing how to read studies and actually reading them makes a real difference compared to not knowing how and not properly reading them.
Plant protein is 30% antinutrients that won’t absorb and wont lete other minerals like zinc absorb as effectively. Plants proteins are deficiant in many amino acids, especially leucine which triggers anabolism.
@@rahvastepaabel Plant protein has nothing to do with anti-nutrients. Certain plants may have some anti-nutrients same as certain animal products ( like eggs). And we have developed methods to almost eliminate them like soaking, boiling, germination and fermentation. Multiple studies have shown better health outcomes with plant protein compared to animal ones regardless of anti-nutrients. Also plant protein has all 9 essential amino acids,just maybe a bit smaller than in animal protein, same for leucine . Soy protein is highest quality plant protein both rich in leucine and safe for health with 80 percent overall quality compared to whey.
I really loved your analysis. As a data analysis analyst, I must say, you really got the grasp on the study from head to toe. It is important to reflect numbers as they are... I will follow you now! 5 🌟 to you!!
After listening to both Layne & Simon, I read the study myself. What struck me was this "The main contributors to dairy protein were milk, cheese, pizza??, yogurt, and ice cream. The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta". So these are the healthy sources of plant protein?. They ate that and were healthy? Amazing. I'm in my late 50's and if I ate pizza, pasta and cereal etc., I'd be obese. In fact I did try very healthy vegan diet for 3 years and I packed on the pounds and had to stop. All that to say, this study just got me more confused.
Yes, Simon fails to note some of these details. Calling animal protein less healthy as it is in the form of pizza or processed meats is disingenuous. Processed meats are not healthy. If the study was done on whey protein or fresh unprocessed animal protein that are cooked in a healthy manner such as baking / boiling / air fry it would be interesting to see the results.
What do isn't clear to me is the level of exercise this cohort typically did and whether that would impact the results in any way. My wife is a nurse of 40+ years, my daughter is a nurse of 15 years and i worked in the NHS for 20 years. We know and have known so many nurses over the years and is there is one commonality amongst them all, especially that particular age group, is that exercise, particularly resistance exercise, was never prevalent amongst them. Indeed, the vast majority did zero "exercise" whatsoever. Would an "exercise-heavy" cohort have the same results with the same dietary intakes?
As an elderly woman who doesn't eat a lot of food, I barely reach my minimum recommendation even when eating meat for protein. Switching to a diet that has more plant protein would mean getting even less protein, since plant protein sources are lower in protein and would displace animal protein sources.
Not true. If you plan your meals carefully on a plant based diet..you can easily reach over 100g of plant protein per day. I eat close to 130g of plant protein daily as a vegan and I'm 43, I strength train 4-5x a week. Getting stronger and leaner :) Cheers.
It is confusing especially with the DIAAS score of most plant based protein sources. This study seems to suggest it is the quality of the overall diet that is most important. I try to incorporate mixed animal and vegetarian sources, concentrating mostly on marine, dairy and plant protein with occasional lean red meat.
@@MrsSlimOnPlants hi there. I'm a bit confused. Not sure I'm getting enough protein. I'm vegetarian, not vegan. How do you get so much protein? Are these supplements powders etc safe? Thanks
@@Waterhorse1 hi I eat tofu, seitan, tempeh, edamame , textured vegetable protein as my primary protein sources. I also occasionally take vegan protein powder. I was raised vegetarian all my life & now turned vegan for 6 years. Feel free to check out my channel for tons of high protein meal prep or full day of eating videos with macros breakdown . If you plan properly it’s doable 😊
This was really interesting and helpful. I like this format, the way you walk through the study step by step made it easier to grasp the important points.
Hello Simon , Thankyou for your work 👍 Being Vegan has been the best action I have ever and will ever do . Just proves that we humans do not need to eat animals for optimal health. Why should these animals be exploited, suffer and be killed when it’s not necessary for human health and survival! . Take care JP Sydney, Australia 🇦🇺
Meat eater live vasly longer in age and have the best life expectancy. Vegans are all deficient and need synthetic nutrients only found in animal products. What you said is not true. Lay off the pharmaceuticals and see how well you last. Should be funny.
Everybody is different. Many people have cured long-standing auto-immune diseases by excluding plants. As for killing, plants are alive too. Only plants can live from sun, rain and soil nutrients, all creatures have to kill something to live.
I was vegan, and was very unhealthy. Carnivore has completely changed what plants did to my body. I’m now 6 years carnivore, and very healthy and energetic, at 62 yo. ❤️🍀
Great breakdown! Shows why I follow your pod and I was waiting for a new study on animal and plant protein like this one. Also love how you engage with others who disagree with you but are open to changing their/your mind. Keep it up.
Thank you, Simon, for this excellent analysis, and for not making this about personalities. As I have listened to you for some time now, it seems that you try to stay with the evidence, and not the perspective as a vegan. I have been vegan for years, yet I like to listen to folks like Layne who are not vegan. He is smart and focuses on science, yet he has a blind side. When I listened to his podcast on this, in my opinion, he kinda glossed over the results of the results of plant-based protein. I hope he watches your podcast and connects with you in the future. You have had some interesting conversations with him online, that have had considerable agreement. May that continue to be so. And may you continue to be an unbiased (as much as possible) source of honest plant-based and scientific wisdom.
Yes, it is absolutely clear from the study that plant protein is way better than animal protein. However, your claim that people should eat more protein than the official medical guideline of .8 grams per kg of body weight is NOT clear from the study. The big benefits of moving from meat protein to plant protein might simply be due to avoiding the bad effects of meat.
Thanks for the review Simon, very thorough, always good to hear more positions on the protein question. Although, Nurses Health Study, prospective epidemiology using food frequency questionnaires... quite poor data no matter how much you control / adjust for confounders. Recent mendellian randomisations, RCTs and systematic reviews using GRACE method show no associated with animal foods / red meat with many diseases.
The assumption that nurses are more health conscious than general population is not true. The challenges they face from working shift patterns (interesting if they adjusted for the impact of shift patterns). When working with clients I collect diet diaries months apart to make sure the client is staying on track, what the client thinks they’re eating to what they’re are actually eating is vast. And finally when they say I’m eating chicken they mean the chicken in a pre packed sandwich together with a packet of crisps and a can of fizzy pop. So while the animal protein may not be classed a red or processed, it contains lots of sugar and additives for shelf life. While the study is the best we have at the moment it is far from looking at good quality animal proteins.
It's not like this is the only paper which favours plant protein over animal. Literally every cohort study does so. Your disdain against 'sugar' is out of place in this paper's context, just your bias showing.
Personally, I went vegan at 42 and I got ill quickly. A few months later I was diagnosed with an autoimmune condition. It took me 4 years of feeling terrible and getting low ferritin before I finally changed my diet back to mostly protein and vegetables. Now I feel much better.
Glad you’re doing better! I will say, many people following omnivore diets develop auto immune conditions too. Cause of these conditions is not really well understood. It’s difficult to pin down any diet or food as the culprit. Lastly, this video was not about a vegan diet and the msg wasn’t everyone should adopt a vegan diet.
Thank you so much for this video! I saw Layne's video and had some questions after it. So Thanks for answering my doubts about the plant protein part. This is my favorite channel here on youtube (alongside Rich Roll)
A incredibly helpful breakdown Simon. Thank you and keep up the good work please! You and Gil (Nutrition Made Simple) are the best nuanced, science-based nutrition experts at the moment.
Really great video/podcast on this one. Thank you for presenting it in a respectful and balanced way, rather than the easy way for clicks of disrespecting another content creator or saying this is proof of only one way to eat. One of your best yet.
Its called "The Proof" because it is ! Bringing the science to us lay people and helping us make sense of it all is simply life saving ! Thank You Simon !
I really appreciate this lucid discussion of the study.. As an older gent, I've been trying to get a lot of protein to fight off sarcopenia and hold lean muscle as I age. But I keep reading all this negative stuff about protein. As all my sources are plant sources, I feel much better having watched this video. Thank you.
Not sure if you or someone else has addressed this, and I've not yet read the full article, but what they categorized as "plant protein" seems rather suspect? They write: "The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta."
Great insight! I wish Simon should have adressed the protein source as well, because it is highly important, taking into account there is a strong perception on protein sources - I dont think anyone would put pizza, pasta, fruits as vegetable protein. With this, I feel there are cherry picking and biases on both sides. Maybe a direct conversation with Layne Norton explaining thoroughly the study will be more helpful for audience.
I'm in my 70s, and I was raised everything organic. My father would say go out and get our lunch so I'd go outside and pick all the vegetables for our lunch. And we had apple trees. Many other trees and they were never sprayed. We used a method that old farmers use, and that is smoking the trees. We had well water.And I used to work card shoveling the snow and cutting the grass with a pushmower. This wasn't just your front yard or your backyard.I would cut one acre of tall grass. I would say, "You say shovel and clear the snow from the house to the main highway?Which once one quarter of a venezer just wide enough for my dad to get the pickup truck out. I started young picking up large rocks and putting them in the wheelbarrow.As my dad was a carpenter.So at the age of ten, I was working very hard. At 15, I was already sewing my own clothing, doing my own Canning and making my own bread by hand, and my father never had cattle full of hormones. He wouldn't even allow anything in the house that indicated it was with chemicals.. We ate a lot of cheese.And I had a lot of milk. And tons of vegetables. We would go to mcdonald's maybe once a month if that just so I didn't feel left out from the city Kids. I would walk 6 miles almost every day after school to see my friend or on the weekends. When I was in my twenties and thirties, I used to do a lot of outdoor activities. I remember having a backpack.That was at least fifty pounds and walking through a narrow area that was ten miles into the bush to go fishing all day and walking ten miles back with carrying a canoe. My boyfriend would be carrying the carrying the front, and I would be carrying the back. We would always be out somewhere on the weekends. When I was 32 I walked into a gym.The very first time and this guy came up to me and he says boy.Are you ever strong looking?How much can you bench?? I had no idea what he was talking about. I didn't realize I was strong, but I thought maybe I should go to the gym and become stronger. I got over to the bench, and the first ti pushed two fifty. It was two hundred and fifty pounds. I started shaking a little bit, but I knew I could do 275. I really thought nothing about it because I didn't understand if two hundred and fifty pounds were all that great. Lol. Looking back now, at my time in life in my sewendy's.I wish I didn't leave home early. I wish I never ate any junk food in my life. Even though I tried to keep it all together the world seems to push fast foods on to you and a lifestyle that we should never even live and that city life. You can have all this protein and all this food.Sure.It's good and we need it, but we need a life away from the city.We need a life that is stress-free. Which is very hard to do nowadays. One of the best things a person can do is live with a good conscience. Feel grateful for all the things that you have instead of complaining about what you don't have. Simplify your life. And don't become materialistic because that will put you in the grave fast. Save save save save your money. Because you just don't know what's going to happen from day today. Well, that's just my intake on things.Hope everybody takes care of themselves.And keep away from marijuana That's a different subject😅
Oh my God, what a great study analysis, today I realized that at 83, eating only meat for the last 12 years was a tragic mistake. 110 kg bench, 140 kg squat, 190 kg deadlift, and although 19% body fat I have 278 total cholesterol still without any diseases. If I had eaten only greens, how much better would I have been? How did I make such a mistake? From today, I will graze only ...🎉🎉🎉🎉
Dear psekasmenos8878, I understood your sarcasm, but please do not assume that you are without any disease. Having a total cholesterol of 278 is highly suggestive of familial hypercholesterolemia [FH] (any history of male relatives going back generations that died of heart disease or stroke?). A CAC test would be informative, and really informative would be a CT Coronary Angiogram (although at much higher expense...maybe $1.5 - 2.5k instead of $0.3k). I am living with an elderly mother (93) who lived with undiagnosed FH for the first 9 decades of her life and did not have her first heart attack until 92. But she is now living an impaired quality of life because of plaques in her coronary arteries (making any exertion difficult) and plaques in her legs, called claudication, that causes "wake-up" pain every night as the muscles and nerves in her legs starve for oxygen. I wish you the best of health, but please do not assume that undiagnosed disease is the same as absence of disease, especially when it comes to the most prevalent forms of disease in the USA.
Well said. there is overwhelming evidence eating grass fed animal meat almost solely is very healthy, cutting out all the toxins in vegetable matter and beans. I have eaten greens, vegetables and even tried cutting out meat and did not feel well at all. I am now cutting out the vegetables and upping my animal protein consumption. Plenty evidence people's insulin and glucose levels decrease which is a sign of being more metabolically healthy.
@@rbw137 Cholesterol is a myth, especially for those not eating the standard western diet of highly processed fake foods which is highly inflammatory to the human body.
I think the biggest problem with animal protein is Advanced Glycation End-products(AGEs) created in the dominant preparation/processing methods used in the US. People often cook meat in ways to bring out flavors produced via the Maillard browning reaction. This reaction creates AGEs. They are the result. However, there are cooking methods that minimize their creation. We can make stew, chili, soup, and other dishes where there is a high level of moisture throughout the cooking process that keeps the temperature reached by all parts of the meat low. If that is a little acidic (without also adding sugar), that's even better. Frying, flame broiling, BBQing, roasting and more, generate copious amounts of these harmful AGEs. They are also created through mechanical blending. Which is why most processed meats have high levels. But many other blended substances also have high AGEs like butter, cream cheese, mayonnaise, and margarine. AGEs are also created by fermentation, so I have to go against Simon's advocation of fermented foods. I know there are studies that show positive results from consuming natto and other stuff, I just suspect that you have beneficial substances along with harmful, but by more careful food selections you won't need those beneficial substances, and have to take the harmful ones with them. As such, I think it only makes sense to eat cheeses with very low fermentation or no fermentation: ricotta, cottage, mozzarella, string (it's just mozzarella). AGEs are strongly liked to heart disease and many other diseases of aging. One in particular you accumulate in your body because even healthy kidneys cannot remove it. This is glucosepane. These AGEs are easily measured in the body using a cuff that uses a frequency of light that causes them to fluoresce. But it is not approved in the US yet. For eggs, boiling is excellent, but scrambling is fine too. Frying an egg is not good. And vegetarians and vegans are not free of risk from AGEs. Roasted nuts and seeds, toasted nut and seed oils, and nut and seed butters are all high in AGEs. Raw pine nuts are still high. Raw cashew are also somewhat high. And you can easily make lots of AGEs using the blender. You want to avoid blending carbohydrates with either protein or fats. People often make the mistake of putting flaxseed in their mostly carb smoothie, or protein in their mostly carb smoothie. These can be in there, they just need to be blended separately and then just stirred together with a spoon. And any kind of frying makes loads of AGEs. AGEs lodge themselves in the proteins structures that the body uses for support. This stiffens these protein structures, increasing risk of ruptures, and hardens the arteries. AGEs are one of the causes of wrinkles on the skin. Crosslinking from radiation and damage to elastin from several causes, are the other main causes.
Any source about the carb/protein/fat in a blender? Don't see any form of heating there. What about having greek yogurt, flax seeds, oats in a bowl? Looks the same to me.
I would like to know where the research is on blending if you could provide that please. I do protein smoothies almost daily. I found this when looking for information on blending.doi: 10.1016/j.jada.2010.03.018 PMCID: PMC3704564 NIHMSID: NIHMS482555 PMID: 20497781 Advanced Glycation End Products in Foods and a Practical Guide to Their Reduction in the Diet I knew my BBQ was bad for AGE'S but is so good! Look at all the food that has it! I'm going to review this more. Thanks.
I doubt it. Dr. Garth Davis identified the main problem IMHO - insulin resistance. Protein maybe is not as bad as fat & sedentary lifestyle at inducing this resistance, but protein is pretty bad. There's a youtube channel called Fire in a Bottle that has been exploring this idea through a bunch of studies and documenting his own low-protein diet's effects on his ability to lose weight.
@@jft8994 depending on the blender's power the impeller friction can heat stuff up a lot. with dry spices I"ve felt heating up to almost-burning-to-the-touch. That could be as low as 60 celcius for me, don't know how bad it can get, and if that's enough to make AGEs.
Possible reasons for the negative results in the animal protein group: 1. Didn't eat their protein from lean animal sources. 2. A high percentage of people in this group, perhaps also frequently enjoyed barbecuing their meat sources. 3. The majority of the people in this group, was also less health conscious in their daily lives, when compared directly to the people in the vegan group. Just from the top of my head... That said, I personally have a feeling that plant based food, when eaten correctly, is likely to provide the most benefit if heart health is the primary goal. Which saddens me, as I love my juicy steaks or pork chops! 😥 But science is not emotions! 😉
@@MT-sq3jo Yeah, he said they where nurses.....and, sorry to say, from my own observation visiting multiple different hospitals and MD clinics, and even having multiple nurses as family members.....the majority of them doesn't practice what they preach. And overweight or skinny fat, is a major problem in that group. So I feel I can safely say, that the "nurse" title, doesn't in any way warrant any guarantees of the person behind it, is above the average person in the general population, when it comes to living healthy.
@@danieljrgensen133 I agree with everything you said regarding nurses in general. Especially older nurses. They work long hours. Some are more physical in their particular job than others, but I don't know any that eat healthily, or exercise outside of work. Number 1, they eat at the hospital! 😢 We all know hospital food will kill you! And what they do know about nutrition, they learned from their medical training. Which we all know, will kill you! And it is shocking to see how many nurses are gathered at the smoking area out in the hospital parking lot, having a cigarette during their break! 😮
So in sum, considering that we live in times where we need to consider not only ours but the health of the planet too, it seems pretty easy to choose the protein source. Great work Simon 🌱✌🏽
The key takeaways: 1) Total and animal protein were associated with higher odds of developing chronic disease. 2) Plant protein was associated with lowest odds of becoming physically impaired. 3) Plant protein was associated with higher odds of having good mental health status. 4) Total, animal, and dairy protein were not.
Thank you for this video Simon. Once again, feeling vindicated for going whole food plant exclusive at the beginning of the pandemic. So tired of all the flack I get from folks. This makes it all worthwhile! Wished I had started sooner.
Thank you Simon. I like Layne and appreciate how hard it must be to 100% impartial and lazer beamed on the facts without any bias. In the interest of getting to the facts so we can all be healthier this is a great balanced breakdown and respectful. A quality that’s missing in a lot of high profile nutritionists. Thank you again.
Excellent analysis 👍🏻 I have long COVID and i have lost lots of muscle mass despite being under 40 . I wasn't sure on what type of protein to take and whether to do strength training
The video should’ve ended when Simon claimed that this study can reliably report what people ate, because they tested this against 7 day food record. In reality this methodology of using food records and comparing it with what people reported showed a very low correlation in Walter Willet’s own study (only 0.21 for Iron and 0.44 for carbohydrates). A correlation coefficient between 0.7-0.9 can be considered a fairly good coefficient. This method is in fact proved that questionnaire based epidemiological studies CANNOT be reliable. But Simon chose to manipulate this and tried to give more credit to the paper than it deserves. He says scientific literacy is important. Yes it is, and if you read the study yourself instead of another vegan CZcamsr to interpret it for you, you’re going to realize how much politics goes into these resarch.
Very helpful, thank you for going through the data so thoroughly. Being 90% WFPB I love the way I am eating, but I respect that we all have to find our groove and that there is space for a varied approach.
You're among the best, Simon, and I should know given that I've been writing about longevity since 2009 (863 articles to date on my website). I appreciate what you do!
Your breakdowns these studies are just incredible. I feel like you come from a place of truth and non-biased. Layne Seems to push his agenda leaving out a lot of important parts.
Honing your craft with time, This was the best analysis so far IMO. The character assassination free format is to be commended as usual. ( I can't finish a LN video, the screaming and ad hominems are too much to take).
Stipulating the results of the study are correct, how do we know if we have a positive effect "plant protein" vs a positive effect of "plants"? - the presence of the protein in the whole-food matrix of the plant. In other words: (a) If we supplement the animal protein with compounds from plants and healthy dairy such as fiber, polyphenols, fermentation pre/post-biotics, etc., do we see the same benefits as moving to more plant-forward protein sources? (b) If we supplement the plant group with additional leucine or saturated fat, do we see any reduction in benefits? We could also consider adding antinutrient compounds like neu5gc to the plant group, or lectins/oxalates to the animal group. If "replacing 3% energy from animal to plant protein increases odds of healthy aging by 38%" (which would only be a small total shift in amino acid profile of total energy), then ISTM that it less likely the protein composition itself, and more likely beneficial compounds in the plants or fermented dairy. [edit]: Although now that I'm catching up to "The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta.", it seems like there were really not a lot of beneficial plant compounds consumed.
After 8 years being plant based, now in my 40s, thriving, I am happy to see more science help people understand what being aligned with nature is. Always considering individuality, I can say to anyone that a predominantly (85%) plant based diet with calories restriction is clearly the best choice for all life on earth.
What food is part of that 15%? Is it fish? And what foods specifically are your main source of protein, carbs, and fat my friend? What do you think is your daily caloric percentage ratio for each of these macronutrients?
I am 100% plant based. The 85% is for people who make the transition now and to be fair I know the difficulties in the beginning. The 15% is up to you. Personally I eat legumes, mostly lentils every day, with millet or quinoa or brown unprocessed rice, sweet potatoes and seasonal greens. Lots of fruit and green tea. My breakfast is a mix of berries, chia, flaxseed, pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, combined with spices and medicinal mushrooms in powder form! Fasting from sundown to early morning. Yes, this way of living, eating plant based, mostly local & seasonal benefits all life on earth.
@@Psychophski How do you cope with the difficulty of obtaining vitamin b12 and omega 3 with epa and dha? It is difficult to trust a pharmaceutical organization for supplements when some pharmacies have been known to bribe doctors to recommend their product whether it actually works or not in the past.
Thank you Simon, that is a quite interesting study. However i have some uestions in case you read this regarding the plots at 18:12 and following: MUFAs seem to do extremly bad. In all scenarios (total protein, animal protein, plant protein and dairy protein) it seems like reducing MUFA intake will give a benefit. Quite intersitng considering olive oil, avocados and most nuts are pretty high in MUFAs and rather positivley associated with health. Furthermore at 18:16 what is really strange is, that among all things one could swap for plant protein, SFA did still "best". Swapping out SFA for plant protein was associated with the smallest benefit for plant protein. Why are SFAs performing not way worse , but MUFAs did??
Probably because MUFAs are also in a lot of animal foods. Read this paper “MUFAs from plant (P-MUFAs) were reported to be inversely associated with total mortality, whereas MUFAs from animal (A-MUFAs) were associated with higher mortalit” www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8380819/#:~:text=MUFAs%20from%20plant%20(P%2DMUFAs,(TFAs)%20intake%20on%20mortality.
“ittle and conflicting evidence exists to associate monounsaturated fatty acid (MUFA) intake with risk of mortality. One possible reason is that dietary MUFAs come from both plant- and animal-derived food with divergent dietary components that may have different effects on health outcomes. MUFAs from plant (P-MUFAs) were reported to be inversely associated with total mortality, whereas MUFAs from animal (A-MUFAs) were associated with higher mortality (8). Few epidemiological studies have focused on the effect of trans-fatty acids (TFAs) intake on mortality.”
@@TheProofWithSimonHill thank you man, really appreciate this. MUFA as a proxy for animal foods definitely makes sense up to a certain point. Yet it is strange that swapping MUFAs yield more benefit for healthy aging than swapping animal foods or SFA directly. Well, seems like i have to make a delicious tofu shake with some sunflower oil now xD
Sorry, but I couldn't have found this comment without 'Find in page', CTRL+f on the desktop site of my mobile's chrome browser (there were too many comments on the app).
So, if I am to eat 150 grams of protein a day and be under 1800 calories how can I do that with plant protein? To get 50 grams of protein for each of three meals, I would have to eat three cups of beans, which is on the order of 700 calories alone per meal. Already that puts me at 2100 calories in the day just for protein and we haven’t even gotten to other plants I should be eating every day. How can I make this work and be plant-based?
@@pierregibran1 So then why does Simon spend so much effort to get everyone off of meat, knowing that no one can get enough protein (lucine really) from plant sources in a practical amount of calories?
There is no evidence of longevity benefit over 1.2gm/kg. 1.5-2 is for jacked roided bodybuilders. Also, all of this is possible with vegan or vegetarian diet. Its not like all omnivores hit 150gram protein daily automatically. These nurses were omnivore and were hitting 50-90 gram protein daily.
This is my take home from the paper. “Follow-up questionnaires were administered at baseline and every 2 y thereafter to collect information on lifestyle practices and medical history.” I don’t recall what I had last week. How come people would remember what they had in last years?
@@TheProofWithSimonHillNo we didn’t, that explanation doesn’t change the fact that someone can remember what they have eaten for 7 days. But it’s impossible to remember or estimate 130+ food items with portions and frequency of consumption over 365 days. If you think you can do that I’m betting you a 100.000 dollars that you’ll be off the charts within 2-3 months unless you’re keeping a daily diary and live 24/7/365 days with a kitchen scale. Did you really bother to look at the questionnaire itself which is 8 pages of list of food. How can a sane person believe that this questionnaire will being reliable? This is simply insane…
Also I have read the methodology of this 7 day food records in the article. Which is referring to Walter Willet’s previous research on assessing the reliability of food questionnaires with real nutrient intakes ranges from 0.21 for iron to 0.44 for carbs. Do you get this? The method he used and you defended to prove the reliability of questionnaires compared to actual food intake has extremely low correlation coefficient. I know most people, including you Simon, won’t read the studies and jump on the conclusions vegan researchers wanted you to jump. But to put this into right words, this study’s methodology is unreliable at best, junk in reality.
Simon, thank you for this informative and well-researched podcast episode. I really appreciate how you (and Dr. Nagra) go beyond what is presented by others and take time to explain how the data and studies show otherwise. Wondering how studies like this can propel Americans to start to debunk the myths regarding soy protein.
Ok, just how much of your daily protein do you think should come from plant sources? Dairy? And finally how much do you think can or should come from poultry and red meat each? And why?
Norton butchered and misread this paper for his bias, i called him out for it in his comments and wrote a lengthy reddit critique post covering similar points.
Probably you are correct. And I don't want to believe that that's the case so it will be interesting to see if he responds or not. I tried to follow a wide variety of people even though I myself am a whole food plant-based eater but I want to always know what the science says. I found that Norton was a good source of what I thought was reliable information and I trusted him because he's known for changing his mind and making corrections as he goes. I don't want to believe that he deliberately misrepresented the information in the study or deliberately omitted things that he realized would go against his core beliefs! I guess time will tell let's see what he does
I have read this study and believe that your representation of it's analysis is accurate. My main curiosity is with the interaction of protein intake with one of the measured covariates, namely physical activity. Would be interested in an autoregression analysis of said variable with protein type and an analysis of relative effects vs. outcomes.
So if I need at least 150 grams of protein per day, how can I do that consuming only plant proteins? My gut cannot handle a pound of lentils or broccoli or tofu daily. Theres just no way I can get enough protein via plant sources. Also, there’s more to life than a perfect diet. Genetics play a major role in our outcomes regardless. Just don’t be overweight and exercise a lot and you’ll be just fine even eating lots of animal protein.
Great assessment. I love nuance of the stats. I am 65 year old and I eat plant based. I often have to defend my diet to my peers. I tell my friends that mammals that eat animal protein are short lived like tigers and wolves, while mammals which eat plants are long lived - like elephants and gorillas.
What about whales? They don't eat plants yet are the longest living mammal. Orcas as well. Chimps and humans also both live longer than gorillas and are omnivores.
After reaching my 60s I started watching protein intake...glad I went with pea protein based supplements rather then milk based. Always thought milk was just for baby cows and tried to avoid it my whole life. As a youngster milk was forced on us from parents and dairy subsidy school lunches.
This outcome just makes sense - milk, eggs, cheese, yogurt are very easy for us to digest and we have a high % of ingesting the protein from these sources. Meats require a lot of "work" by our digestive track to process. Adding nuts also enables the nuts to help clean the walls of our digestive track, but many of us don't ingest more than 30% of the protein that's in nuts. However I would stay away from any soy protein as soy drives up estrogen levels. Also stay away from any eggs that had soy being fed to the chickens. These eggs test for 4x the amount of estrogen vs. eggs with no soy being fed to the hen.
It has been proven so many times, please read studies. Also there are plenty of videos showing the blood work of vegan bodybuilders. They eat a high amount of soy and the results don't show any increase in estrogen whatsoever. It's just a freaking mith.
7:57 This might have been a statistical artifact, but aren't the effects of total protein and animal protein on absence of chronic diseases significantly negative in table 8 S1 after correction for fruits and vegs?
Great video, Simon! I really appreciate your thorough analysis of the recent Harvard study on protein sources and longevity. I particularly agree with your emphasis on the benefits of plant-based proteins. The study's findings align well with existing research showing that plant-based proteins can reduce inflammation and improve cardiovascular health. Your breakdown of the optimal intake levels was spot on and crucial for those looking to balance their diet without overloading on animal-based sources. One area that I think warrants further exploration is the study's limited focus on the diversity of protein sources within plant-based diets. For example, the potential differences in health impacts between various legumes, nuts, and seeds weren't fully addressed. Additionally, the long-term effects of protein combinations and their impact on the gut microbiome would be an interesting angle to dive deeper into. The study's scope on exercise and its interaction with protein intake could also provide a richer understanding of how diet and physical activity together influence longevity. Another important point to consider is the connection between higher fiber intake and plant proteins versus animal proteins. The increased fiber from plant-based diets could be a significant factor contributing to the health benefits observed, impacting gut health, cholesterol levels, and more. Overall, your insights are incredibly valuable, and I look forward to more content like this! 💪
Well played with the information available. Recommendations were spot on for me. One of the increased risk factors in meat may not be the protein but saturated fats. I follow Dr. Taylor's hint to leave the extra fat of a pork chop on the plate.
Science is about reducing uncertainty. If you want certainty it may not be for you. My goal is to accurately communicate the information. Where I’ve said ‘may’ it is acknowledgement that , despite this being a high quality study, there could be factors that are not adjusted for/considered that explain the results.
I rarely eat vegetables, I eat mostly quality meats , eggs and cheese, 20% oatmeal and breads with a mix of collagen., lots of quality chocolates, and a limited amount of alcohol and other stimulants including sugar is kept at a minimum, lots of sun and constantly staying active no matter the pain.
This is a really good study and your video does an excellent job breaking it down! Thanks for the work! As a next step I'd like to see data that goes into more detail with animal and dairy protein. The reason being that I get most of my protein from animal sources however it is largely from fatty fish like sardines and salmon, fermented dairy (i drink about half a cup almost every day) and some eggs, at most 6 per week. I might eat other types of meat maybe twice a week in a typical week. My impression of the scientific literature is fish and fermented dairy garner a lot of health benefits, so it quid be interesting to see the methods used in this study executed on them, as well as eggs. Maybe that will be done later? Hopefully!
My impression is that Dr Norton knows all the answers and knows what he wants to be the results, and this frees him up from having to do the analysis or even read the studies.
Thanks for the great work, Simon. One question, though, about Dr. Nagra's talk about adjustment for fruits and vegetables. When he mentions that plant protein added benefits could be potentialised by other nutrients like fiber... Wasn't it adjusted for fiber as well?
What does it mean to replace 3% of total calories? From what baseline of dietary pattern to what other pattern? What actual substitution of foods we are talking about, meaning what components in the diet change together with this substitution? This information doesn't tell much Simon
Newbie amateur studies reader: how do researchers take into account any other factor impacting longevity ? How to they separate the effect of let's say the lemon juice or olive oil used in a salad, that positively impact longevity as well ?
In this and most of the papers "Cox proportional hazards models" are used. Then it's up to the researcher and the data what you want and can model. You can separate dressing and vegetables from a salad if you have the data and if you want to. Or you can just assume the composition of an average salad. Or you just use "salad" as a quantity in your model. In general I find the interpretation of data not easy because you have to find out what things like "animal protein", "plant protein" and "MUFA" precisely mean in the model. And that's not reported in the main part of the paper most of the time. If you're lucky it's in the supplementary data. Multidimensional quantities like "plant protein" (i.e. increase plant protein can be archived by doing very different things) in Cox models means more like "typical plant protein". So all the possible plant protein is weighted by more or less how typical their consumption is in the population (it's more complicated). That gives you a one-dimensional quantity comprised of a weighted sum of individual plant protein sources.
Hi Simon! Thank you for all your work. I appreciate it very much. I noticed you take Momentous Protein. Have you considered Sunwarrioir? That one does not have Saturated Fats.
@@TheProofWithSimonHillthank you so much for replying. I’m a new follower and I love your content!❤ Thank you so much for all the love, care and dedication you give.
Guys, if you enjoyed this video and want to see more study breakdowns like this please do two things for me. Click the thumbs up button and subscribe to the channel. Thanks!
Great video. The only criticism I have or maybe it's my lack of understanding is that I have no idea why you state to increase protein requirements above .8 gm per kg. Maybe I've missed something here. It'd be great to help me out here. Is there any valid science to state this point ?
We all know you're a liar Simon... There isn't a single study on earth showing the more carbs you eat and the less animals the better, not one! But there is evidence that a vegan diet, which foods are inferior in protein, calcium, zinc, iron, B12, K2, vit D etc.. there is evidence vegan is harmful ESPECIALLY to children who end up smaller and have lower bone mineral content. Not to mention a super high carb diet leads to CVD.
Meat is superior for human development of the brain, muscles, skeleton for performance, recovery and longevity.
This is why vegans/vegetarians have to compare their diets to the average American diet.. because that's all they can because diets with a mix of beef, turkey, chicken, salmon, quails, eggs, kefir etc alongside low-moderate carbs is superior.
When working to lose weight should set protein intake on the target weight or your current weight?
Here the title says it all.
"
Dietary protein intake in midlife in relation to healthy aging - results from the prospective Nurses’ Health Study cohort
Andres V Ardisson Korat
M Kyla Shea
Paul F Jacques
A Heather Eliassen
Walter C Willett
Qi Sun
All together now what does that say..midlife.
Plant chompers and all the rest will be applying this within the overall context of for all, not the elderly. Who do you think will watch plant chompers with great interest, some young buck or as the author of that is .elderly, who?. The young buck will be watching sports based nutritional content, typically if they are interested in nutrition at all. Oldsters will be watching plant chompers by demographic study. I have not done one but can say that with confidence, a older viewing group. Look at the guy...what do you see?
The elderly have specific protein requitements above that of a mid life person if they resistance train or are very active.
This specific has been addressed in study.
It is as per example the study of longevity itself. What is the longevity expected af a american child at age one as opposed to the life expectancy of a average american 70 year old?
The one year old will top out at below 80 the seventy years old will be found above 80.
Longevity study is a function of what...age.
So study groups in longevity are defined by what...age groupings.
You must specify midlife if you are to verse on the topic.
Not one diet is proven best for all, and not all protein requirements are best for all age groups.Protein requirements you and I both know, differ significantly as attributable to assimilation capacity in variance with age.
I am not disputing your overall consideration plant verses animal, but this must be stated.
Dairy some conditions of cancer it is theorized are protective by dairy. That suggested by seventh day study results. Women do better than men longevity considered, and vegan woman live longest of all, but not vegan men.. Vegan men do not live longest under study of men only in consideration.
So it gets quite specific as to gender and also as mentioned age. One addition worth noting we suffer different cancer types by gender as life ending events.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill I wish the study separated out fish protein, considering Valter Longo seems to suggest mostly vegetables with occasional fish seems to be optimal. Maybe that's wrong or maybe that's right, but I don't understand why there's not a closer look at fish protein vs other proteins.
I listened to this yesterday on Spotify, awesome breakdown!!
I really love your attitude with fact checking - no ego, respectful. The nutrition space really needs that, it can be so toxic for content creators.
Glad you enjoyed!
Ditto
The video of what Simon claims to be "misrepresentations" by Dr Lyon are biased for may reasons:
1. He fact checks people who are never present to rebuttal what he says. It's like being in court with only the prosecution and no defence.
2. It's easy to put a case against somebody's claims when they aren't there to cross question back and to assess the validity of the research.
3. One of America's top heart surgeons Philip Ovadia MD author of Stay Off My Operating Table is an also huge proponent of meat as a source of protein.
4. The leading Dr in the USA on longevity of life Dr Peter Attia also eats meat as a source of protein his book Outlive covers this.
5. In the study he used to claim Dr Lyon "misrepresented" it included Kangaroo and Lamb both meats that do not feature in Dr Lyons books as key source of protein for a muscle centric diet BUT YET you've included it in your so called claims of misrepresentation evidence.
5. Plant foods are less protein dense than animal foods therefore you need to eat a larger quantity of plant based foods in comparison to animal protein so how do you get enough protein via a plant based diet?
This is the best talk on protein I have ever heard. 👏💪🙏I am organizing a TEDx Longevity Day and need a talk on protein and longevity. I'm gonna see if one of these authors can give it, although you would give it better than almost anyone. 😎
Chris, high compliment from you. Thank you. Good luck with the longevity event - no doubt it will be a great success.
@@TheProofWithSimonHillHe was inviting you to give the talk.....Go on, you know you want to....😊
Hey Chris, why don't you give the talk, if Simon won't? 😊
@@lynnritchie231 I'm working on getting Heather Eliassen, a Harvard professor and one of the authors to give it. She looks like she'd have good stage presence: czcams.com/video/SK9hO0FUaBc/video.htmlsi=h7gJoHNNT1AsHigS
@@TheProofWithSimonHill
I bet you give it so good that the toes curl
I have known a lot of nurses and seen thousands and if they are a healthy group I need a new eye exam.
I work for a nursing home chain and we own 23 nursing homes and I can tell you nurses are the least healthy people I have ever met. Hands down.
😂😂😂
Correct
That's so silly. Every one is an individual. My mom was a nurse and was extremely healthy. She lived to be in her nineties .. no dementia,no health issues at all. She was. The happiest person I've ever. Known she worked till she was eighty.
Nah you need a course in population statistics. Your "known a lot" doesn't match up against the amount of people researched. Also did you see that this is a study started 30 years ago? Maybe the nurse back then were much healthier. Your claim only shows we might be mistreating and underpaying some of our essential citizens leading to bad outcomes.
Simon does such a good job of communicating scientific data. I love that he is so level-headed and unbiased in his interpretations. It means I can trust him. Thanks Simon!
Your channel is my favorite channel by far. I really appreciate your even approach and lack of hype. Really enjoyed your book The Proof is in the Plants. Thank you!
Check out Nutrition Made Simply and Dr. Matthew Nagra.
It is so great to see a healthy eating advocate who truly maintaince a stance of looking for the truth, without attachment for one way or another.
Well, I don't know about the unbiased attachment, but as vegans go, he is at least, much more honest. ❤
@@jellybeanvinkler4878At least he lets you know what animal products are healthier than others, like he would do for anything else. Cutting out red meat and dairy is probably better for you, but small fish or chicken is probably much better for you, and for the planet. Better to improve than to ignore completely.
@@mikafoxx2717 have a look at Ryan Fernando, the #1 nutritionist in Bharat. He is vegan, but not advocating his clients and followers for plant based diet. He is 50 yrs old, but literally doesn't look more than 35-ish. Another new study is so called Blue Zones, they eat 95% plant based. So, maybe there is something in that way of eating ))
Correction. I work with nurses, and as a whole they are certainly not more health conscious than the general population. Based on my estimates, they are likely similarly health conscious compared to the norms. Plenty of inactive, overweight, stressed to the max nurses out there eating processed foods
Sucks to hear this! Thx
I can’t speak historically about nurses, but I am attending cardio rehab in a major city and can attest that every.single.nurse running the program is overweight to very overweight. Since I excercise around the lunch hour, I see all the junk food and soda the rest of the hospital nurses purchase. Maybe the healthy nurses were fired back in 2021.
It's not a correction. The statement was based on the individuals in this study. So the data is relevant to healthy-eating individuals. Maybe it is true that, in general, nurses are just "normal" consumers. But that doesn't take anything away from this study.
This study started 30 years ago and has a different population and socio economic differentiation within the public space than the ones you are talking about. So no.. No "correction". You just do not understand how research population selection works.
If Respectful Call-outs were an Olympic sport, Simon would be a gold medalist! I so hope Layne replies.
Simon's not as easily sidelined as Lyle McDonald[1] made himself, so yeah it'll be interesting to see if there is a response and the form it takes.
[1] speaking as someone who'll listen to Lyle before Layne, Attia, Huberman but after Simon, Gil, Chris and Garth Davis.
I really enjoyed the video and your analysis. I’m not vegan I eat dairy and other animal products but I appreciate the truth. I’m a fan of Layne but he needs to respond to the things he either missed or didn’t represent properly. Thanks. ❤
The video of what Simon claims to be "misrepresentations" by Dr Lyon are biased for may reasons:
1. He fact checks people who are never present to rebuttal what he says. It's like being in court with only the prosecution and no defence.
2. It's easy to put a case against somebody's claims when they aren't there to cross question back and to assess the validity of the research.
3. One of America's top heart surgeons Philip Ovadia MD author of Stay Off My Operating Table is an also huge proponent of meat as a source of protein.
4. The leading Dr in the USA on longevity of life Dr Peter Attia also eats meat as a source of protein his book Outlive covers this.
5. In the study he used to claim Dr Lyon "misrepresented" it included Kangaroo and Lamb both meats that do not feature in Dr Lyons books as key source of protein for a muscle centric diet BUT YET you've included it in your so called claims of misrepresentation evidence.
5. Plant foods are less protein dense than animal foods therefore you need to eat a larger quantity of plant based foods in comparison to animal protein so how do you get enough protein via a plant based diet?
I wish instead of lumping all the animal-proteins together, they would analyze poultry, red meat and fish separately. It is a possibility that fish has some positive effect on memory, and in this case we will not be able to know that.
That’s certainly true which is why my statement at the end included fish, eggs and fermented dairy as the animal proteins that I would recommend to someone eating an omnivorous diet. In addition to plenty of. Legumes, nuts seeds etc
In my opinion a better metric would be processed meats, poultry and fish versus the fresh versions.
Yeah, we know saturated fat isn't good for you. And that comes with certain forms, whereas something like sardines have low heavy metals and omega 3's which are usually lacking in diets, all diets.
I am an Adventist pescatarian. Simon, love your channel. Keep up the great work!
@@TheProofWithSimonHill In 2023, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations published a document named "Contribution of terrestrial animal source food to healthy diets for improved nutrition and health outcomes". Will it be possible for you to review it and make a video on it?
There are many claims in that document:
i. "A robust evidence base shows that milk and dairy consumption during pregnancy increases infant weight at birth and
may also increase birth length and foetal head circumference"
ii. "Evidence shows that consumption of milk and dairy products by school-age children and adolescents increases height and reduces overweight and
obesity. Beef consumption in this life-course phase has been shown to improve cognitive outcomes."
iii. "In adults, findings largely indicate that eating milk and dairy products, specifically yoghurt, has positive effects in terms of reducing risk of all-cause mortality, hypertension, stroke, type 2 diabetes, colorectal cancer, breast cancer, obesity, osteoporosis and fractures."
iii. "A fairly strong evidence-base shows that lean red meat consumption has positive effects on muscle health. Other evidence suggests that milk and dairy products and other TASFs have a potential role in mitigating sarcopenia (muscle loss), fractures, frailty, dementia and Alzheimer’s disease."
Great, balanced presentation. I also appreciated how you stuck with the facts--principles vs personalities. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
When I saw the data on the screen I went right for p values and hazard ratios which immediately stuck out for plant protein. Knowing how to read studies and actually reading them makes a real difference compared to not knowing how and not properly reading them.
Plant protein is 30% antinutrients that won’t absorb and wont lete other minerals like zinc absorb as effectively. Plants proteins are deficiant in many amino acids, especially leucine which triggers anabolism.
@@rahvastepaabel Plant protein has nothing to do with anti-nutrients. Certain plants may have some anti-nutrients same as certain animal products ( like eggs). And we have developed methods to almost eliminate them like soaking, boiling, germination and fermentation. Multiple studies have shown better health outcomes with plant protein compared to animal ones regardless of anti-nutrients. Also plant protein has all 9 essential amino acids,just maybe a bit smaller than in animal protein, same for leucine . Soy protein is highest quality plant protein both rich in leucine and safe for health with 80 percent overall quality compared to whey.
@@rahvastepaabel😂😂😂 The confidence with which you spew nonsense, is hilarious. 😂😂
@@demonfedor3748read more experimental studies not epidemology which is meerly a hypothesis generation survey. You are wrong on many levels there
@@blackpalacemusicread more and keep objective eye
I really loved your analysis. As a data analysis analyst, I must say, you really got the grasp on the study from head to toe. It is important to reflect numbers as they are...
I will follow you now!
5 🌟 to you!!
After listening to both Layne & Simon, I read the study myself. What struck me was this "The main contributors to dairy protein were milk, cheese, pizza??, yogurt, and ice cream. The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta". So these are the healthy sources of plant protein?. They ate that and were healthy? Amazing. I'm in my late 50's and if I ate pizza, pasta and cereal etc., I'd be obese. In fact I did try very healthy vegan diet for 3 years and I packed on the pounds and had to stop. All that to say, this study just got me more confused.
Yes, Simon fails to note some of these details. Calling animal protein less healthy as it is in the form of pizza or processed meats is disingenuous. Processed meats are not healthy. If the study was done on whey protein or fresh unprocessed animal protein that are cooked in a healthy manner such as baking / boiling / air fry it would be interesting to see the results.
Then stop eating so much calories
He addressed this in his response. Very little came from pizza etc. 4% of all protein
Actually I show a graph on screen of the sources of animal protein. Pizza and processed meats = 4% of total calories from animal protein.
@@mementomori29231 Did you actually watch the video?
Simon and Mathew are both excellent communicators, they have a great talent for explaining nuanced topics
Ty
What do isn't clear to me is the level of exercise this cohort typically did and whether that would impact the results in any way.
My wife is a nurse of 40+ years, my daughter is a nurse of 15 years and i worked in the NHS for 20 years. We know and have known so many nurses over the years and is there is one commonality amongst them all, especially that particular age group, is that exercise, particularly resistance exercise, was never prevalent amongst them. Indeed, the vast majority did zero "exercise" whatsoever.
Would an "exercise-heavy" cohort have the same results with the same dietary intakes?
Excellent analysis, review, and summary of the study, Simon! Your work is always thorough and of high quality.
Glad you think so!
As an elderly woman who doesn't eat a lot of food, I barely reach my minimum recommendation even when eating meat for protein. Switching to a diet that has more plant protein would mean getting even less protein, since plant protein sources are lower in protein and would displace animal protein sources.
Not true. If you plan your meals carefully on a plant based diet..you can easily reach over 100g of plant protein per day. I eat close to 130g of plant protein daily as a vegan and I'm 43, I strength train 4-5x a week. Getting stronger and leaner :) Cheers.
It is confusing especially with the DIAAS score of most plant based protein sources.
This study seems to suggest it is the quality of the overall diet that is most important.
I try to incorporate mixed animal and vegetarian sources, concentrating mostly on marine, dairy and plant protein with occasional lean red meat.
@@MrsSlimOnPlants hi there. I'm a bit confused. Not sure I'm getting enough protein. I'm vegetarian, not vegan. How do you get so much protein? Are these supplements powders etc safe? Thanks
@@Waterhorse1 hi I eat tofu, seitan, tempeh, edamame , textured vegetable protein as my primary protein sources. I also occasionally take vegan protein powder. I was raised vegetarian all my life & now turned vegan for 6 years. Feel free to check out my channel for tons of high protein meal prep or full day of eating videos with macros breakdown . If you plan properly it’s doable 😊
@MrsSlimOnPlants please tell me your protein sources?
This was really interesting and helpful. I like this format, the way you walk through the study step by step made it easier to grasp the important points.
I can do more like this if people want
@@TheProofWithSimonHill That would be great.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill That would be great.
@@TheProofWithSimonHill Love this as well!
@@TheProofWithSimonHill Yes please!
Hello Simon ,
Thankyou for your work 👍
Being Vegan has been the best action I have ever and will ever do . Just proves that we humans do not need to eat animals for optimal health. Why should these animals be exploited, suffer and be killed when it’s not necessary for human health and survival! .
Take care
JP
Sydney, Australia 🇦🇺
Meat eater live vasly longer in age and have the best life expectancy. Vegans are all deficient and need synthetic nutrients only found in animal products. What you said is not true. Lay off the pharmaceuticals and see how well you last. Should be funny.
Everybody is different. Many people have cured long-standing auto-immune diseases by excluding plants. As for killing, plants are alive too. Only plants can live from sun, rain and soil nutrients, all creatures have to kill something to live.
greetings from a 70 year old very healthy woman, who is eating carnivore
I was vegan, and was very unhealthy. Carnivore has completely changed what plants did to my body. I’m now 6 years carnivore, and very healthy and energetic, at 62 yo.
❤️🍀
I’m a vegan once removed. The animals eat the plants and I eat the animals. They digest the nutrition for me.
Great breakdown! Shows why I follow your pod and I was waiting for a new study on animal and plant protein like this one. Also love how you engage with others who disagree with you but are open to changing their/your mind. Keep it up.
Thanks George!
Thank you, Simon, for this excellent analysis, and for not making this about personalities. As I have listened to you for some time now, it seems that you try to stay with the evidence, and not the perspective as a vegan.
I have been vegan for years, yet I like to listen to folks like Layne who are not vegan. He is smart and focuses on science, yet he has a blind side. When I listened to his podcast on this, in my opinion, he kinda glossed over the results of the results of plant-based protein.
I hope he watches your podcast and connects with you in the future. You have had some interesting conversations with him online, that have had considerable agreement.
May that continue to be so. And may you continue to be an unbiased (as much as possible) source of honest plant-based and scientific wisdom.
Yes, it is absolutely clear from the study that plant protein is way better than animal protein. However, your claim that people should eat more protein than the official medical guideline of .8 grams per kg of body weight is NOT clear from the study. The big benefits of moving from meat protein to plant protein might simply be due to avoiding the bad effects of meat.
Thanks for the review Simon, very thorough, always good to hear more positions on the protein question. Although, Nurses Health Study, prospective epidemiology using food frequency questionnaires... quite poor data no matter how much you control / adjust for confounders. Recent mendellian randomisations, RCTs and systematic reviews using GRACE method show no associated with animal foods / red meat with many diseases.
The assumption that nurses are more health conscious than general population is not true. The challenges they face from working shift patterns (interesting if they adjusted for the impact of shift patterns).
When working with clients I collect diet diaries months apart to make sure the client is staying on track, what the client thinks they’re eating to what they’re are actually eating is vast.
And finally when they say I’m eating chicken they mean the chicken in a pre packed sandwich together with a packet of crisps and a can of fizzy pop. So while the animal protein may not be classed a red or processed, it contains lots of sugar and additives for shelf life. While the study is the best we have at the moment it is far from looking at good quality animal proteins.
Absolutely, the sandwich, crisps and fizzy are a typical lunch deal, convenient but full of carbs and sugar, not healthy at all.
It's not like this is the only paper which favours plant protein over animal. Literally every cohort study does so. Your disdain against 'sugar' is out of place in this paper's context, just your bias showing.
Personally, I went vegan at 42 and I got ill quickly. A few months later I was diagnosed with an autoimmune condition. It took me 4 years of feeling terrible and getting low ferritin before I finally changed my diet back to mostly protein and vegetables. Now I feel much better.
Glad you’re doing better! I will say, many people following omnivore diets develop auto immune conditions too. Cause of these conditions is not really well understood. It’s difficult to pin down any diet or food as the culprit.
Lastly, this video was not about a vegan diet and the msg wasn’t everyone should adopt a vegan diet.
One of the best nutrition/science videos I have seen in a long time. Keep up the noble work.
Wow, thanks!
@wendywitchner6790 Agreed! Nutrition Made Simple is worth checking out too.
@@polibm6510 Explain yourself.
@@polibm6510 Your trolling is incredibly impotent.
@@polibm6510 I am amused that you have no idea what the commonly used online term "troll" means. Look it up and stop embarrassing yourself.
Thank you so much for this video! I saw Layne's video and had some questions after it. So Thanks for answering my doubts about the plant protein part.
This is my favorite channel here on youtube (alongside Rich Roll)
Glad it was helpful!
Yo Simon, great video and lotta views. Ty for covering Longevity, in that it's one of my favourite topics
Glad you enjoyed it
A incredibly helpful breakdown Simon. Thank you and keep up the good work please! You and Gil (Nutrition Made Simple) are the best nuanced, science-based nutrition experts at the moment.
Glad to hear it was helpful!
Really great video/podcast on this one. Thank you for presenting it in a respectful and balanced way, rather than the easy way for clicks of disrespecting another content creator or saying this is proof of only one way to eat.
One of your best yet.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for interpreting this important study more attentively than Layne did
Thanks Simon for clarifying the study; great work.
My pleasure!
Its called "The Proof" because it is ! Bringing the science to us lay people and helping us make sense of it all is simply life saving ! Thank You Simon !
Pleasure
I really appreciate this lucid discussion of the study.. As an older gent, I've been trying to get a lot of protein to fight off sarcopenia and hold lean muscle as I age. But I keep reading all this negative stuff about protein. As all my sources are plant sources, I feel much better having watched this video. Thank you.
You can’t access enough appropriate amino acids via plant based diets unless you triple your food intake.
@@ImSTELStanding complete bs. show your source or you know what you can do.
Not sure if you or someone else has addressed this, and I've not yet read the full article, but what they categorized as "plant protein" seems rather suspect? They write: "The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta."
Yes, all these have some protein - some less, some more.
@@ladagspa2008 sure, but how significant an amount (mashed potatoes seem to be about 5%)? Does it matter?
Great insight! I wish Simon should have adressed the protein source as well, because it is highly important, taking into account there is a strong perception on protein sources - I dont think anyone would put pizza, pasta, fruits as vegetable protein.
With this, I feel there are cherry picking and biases on both sides.
Maybe a direct conversation with Layne Norton explaining thoroughly the study will be more helpful for audience.
I'm in my 70s, and I was raised everything organic. My father would say go out and get our lunch so I'd go outside and pick all the vegetables for our lunch. And we had apple trees. Many other trees and they were never sprayed. We used a method that old farmers use, and that is smoking the trees.
We had well water.And I used to work card shoveling the snow and cutting the grass with a pushmower.
This wasn't just your front yard or your backyard.I would cut one acre of tall grass. I would say, "You say shovel and clear the snow from the house to the main highway?Which once one quarter of a venezer just wide enough for my dad to get the pickup truck out.
I started young picking up large rocks and putting them in the wheelbarrow.As my dad was a carpenter.So at the age of ten, I was working very hard.
At 15, I was already sewing my own clothing, doing my own Canning and making my own bread by hand, and my father never had cattle full of hormones. He wouldn't even allow anything in the house that indicated it was with chemicals..
We ate a lot of cheese.And I had a lot of milk.
And tons of vegetables. We would go to mcdonald's maybe once a month if that just so I didn't feel left out from the city Kids. I would walk 6 miles almost every day after school to see my friend or on the weekends.
When I was in my twenties and thirties, I used to do a lot of outdoor activities. I remember having a backpack.That was at least fifty pounds and walking through a narrow area that was ten miles into the bush to go fishing all day and walking ten miles back with carrying a canoe. My boyfriend would be carrying the carrying the front, and I would be carrying the back. We would always be out somewhere on the weekends.
When I was 32 I walked into a gym.The very first time and this guy came up to me and he says boy.Are you ever strong looking?How much can you bench??
I had no idea what he was talking about. I didn't realize I was strong, but I thought maybe I should go to the gym and become stronger. I got over to the bench, and the first ti pushed two fifty. It was two hundred and fifty pounds. I started shaking a little bit, but I knew I could do 275.
I really thought nothing about it because I didn't understand if two hundred and fifty pounds were all that great. Lol.
Looking back now, at my time in life in my sewendy's.I wish I didn't leave home early. I wish I never ate any junk food in my life. Even though I tried to keep it all together the world seems to push fast foods on to you and a lifestyle that we should never even live and that city life.
You can have all this protein and all this food.Sure.It's good and we need it, but we need a life away from the city.We need a life that is stress-free.
Which is very hard to do nowadays.
One of the best things a person can do is live with a good conscience. Feel grateful for all the things that you have instead of complaining about what you don't have.
Simplify your life.
And don't become materialistic because that will put you in the grave fast. Save save save save your money.
Because you just don't know what's going to happen from day today.
Well, that's just my intake on things.Hope everybody takes care of themselves.And keep away from marijuana That's a different subject😅
Whats the problem? Total protein intake is counted. How is anything suspect?
Oh my God, what a great study analysis, today I realized that at 83, eating only meat for the last 12 years was a tragic mistake. 110 kg bench, 140 kg squat, 190 kg deadlift, and although 19% body fat I have 278 total cholesterol still without any diseases. If I had eaten only greens, how much better would I have been? How did I make such a mistake? From today, I will graze only ...🎉🎉🎉🎉
Dear psekasmenos8878, I understood your sarcasm, but please do not assume that you are without any disease. Having a total cholesterol of 278 is highly suggestive of familial hypercholesterolemia [FH] (any history of male relatives going back generations that died of heart disease or stroke?). A CAC test would be informative, and really informative would be a CT Coronary Angiogram (although at much higher expense...maybe $1.5 - 2.5k instead of $0.3k). I am living with an elderly mother (93) who lived with undiagnosed FH for the first 9 decades of her life and did not have her first heart attack until 92. But she is now living an impaired quality of life because of plaques in her coronary arteries (making any exertion difficult) and plaques in her legs, called claudication, that causes "wake-up" pain every night as the muscles and nerves in her legs starve for oxygen. I wish you the best of health, but please do not assume that undiagnosed disease is the same as absence of disease, especially when it comes to the most prevalent forms of disease in the USA.
Well said. there is overwhelming evidence eating grass fed animal meat almost solely is very healthy, cutting out all the toxins in vegetable matter and beans. I have eaten greens, vegetables and even tried cutting out meat and did not feel well at all. I am now cutting out the vegetables and upping my animal protein consumption. Plenty evidence people's insulin and glucose levels decrease which is a sign of being more metabolically healthy.
@@rbw137 Cholesterol is a myth, especially for those not eating the standard western diet of highly processed fake foods which is highly inflammatory to the human body.
I think the biggest problem with animal protein is Advanced Glycation End-products(AGEs) created in the dominant preparation/processing methods used in the US. People often cook meat in ways to bring out flavors produced via the Maillard browning reaction. This reaction creates AGEs. They are the result. However, there are cooking methods that minimize their creation. We can make stew, chili, soup, and other dishes where there is a high level of moisture throughout the cooking process that keeps the temperature reached by all parts of the meat low. If that is a little acidic (without also adding sugar), that's even better. Frying, flame broiling, BBQing, roasting and more, generate copious amounts of these harmful AGEs. They are also created through mechanical blending. Which is why most processed meats have high levels. But many other blended substances also have high AGEs like butter, cream cheese, mayonnaise, and margarine. AGEs are also created by fermentation, so I have to go against Simon's advocation of fermented foods. I know there are studies that show positive results from consuming natto and other stuff, I just suspect that you have beneficial substances along with harmful, but by more careful food selections you won't need those beneficial substances, and have to take the harmful ones with them.
As such, I think it only makes sense to eat cheeses with very low fermentation or no fermentation: ricotta, cottage, mozzarella, string (it's just mozzarella).
AGEs are strongly liked to heart disease and many other diseases of aging. One in particular you accumulate in your body because even healthy kidneys cannot remove it. This is glucosepane. These AGEs are easily measured in the body using a cuff that uses a frequency of light that causes them to fluoresce. But it is not approved in the US yet.
For eggs, boiling is excellent, but scrambling is fine too. Frying an egg is not good.
And vegetarians and vegans are not free of risk from AGEs. Roasted nuts and seeds, toasted nut and seed oils, and nut and seed butters are all high in AGEs. Raw pine nuts are still high. Raw cashew are also somewhat high.
And you can easily make lots of AGEs using the blender. You want to avoid blending carbohydrates with either protein or fats. People often make the mistake of putting flaxseed in their mostly carb smoothie, or protein in their mostly carb smoothie. These can be in there, they just need to be blended separately and then just stirred together with a spoon. And any kind of frying makes loads of AGEs.
AGEs lodge themselves in the proteins structures that the body uses for support. This stiffens these protein structures, increasing risk of ruptures, and hardens the arteries. AGEs are one of the causes of wrinkles on the skin. Crosslinking from radiation and damage to elastin from several causes, are the other main causes.
Any source about the carb/protein/fat in a blender? Don't see any form of heating there.
What about having greek yogurt, flax seeds, oats in a bowl? Looks the same to me.
I would like to know where the research is on blending if you could provide that please. I do protein smoothies almost daily. I found this when looking for information on blending.doi: 10.1016/j.jada.2010.03.018
PMCID: PMC3704564
NIHMSID: NIHMS482555
PMID: 20497781
Advanced Glycation End Products in Foods and a Practical Guide to Their Reduction in the Diet I knew my BBQ was bad for AGE'S but is so good! Look at all the food that has it! I'm going to review this more. Thanks.
I doubt it.
Dr. Garth Davis identified the main problem IMHO - insulin resistance.
Protein maybe is not as bad as fat & sedentary lifestyle at inducing this resistance, but protein is pretty bad.
There's a youtube channel called Fire in a Bottle that has been exploring this idea through a bunch of studies and documenting his own low-protein diet's effects on his ability to lose weight.
@@jft8994 depending on the blender's power the impeller friction can heat stuff up a lot.
with dry spices I"ve felt heating up to almost-burning-to-the-touch.
That could be as low as 60 celcius for me, don't know how bad it can get, and if that's enough to make AGEs.
R@@lowbarbillcraig3689
Possible reasons for the negative results in the animal protein group:
1. Didn't eat their protein from lean animal sources.
2. A high percentage of people in this group, perhaps also frequently enjoyed barbecuing their meat sources.
3. The majority of the people in this group, was also less health conscious in their daily lives, when compared directly to the people in the vegan group.
Just from the top of my head...
That said, I personally have a feeling that plant based food, when eaten correctly, is likely to provide the most benefit if heart health is the primary goal.
Which saddens me, as I love my juicy steaks or pork chops! 😥
But science is not emotions! 😉
I believe the video mentioned that the cohort was a health conscious group with very low highly processed meat intake
@@MT-sq3jo Yeah, he said they where nurses.....and, sorry to say, from my own observation visiting multiple different hospitals and MD clinics, and even having multiple nurses as family members.....the majority of them doesn't practice what they preach. And overweight or skinny fat, is a major problem in that group.
So I feel I can safely say, that the "nurse" title, doesn't in any way warrant any guarantees of the person behind it, is above the average person in the general population, when it comes to living healthy.
@@danieljrgensen133 I agree with everything you said regarding nurses in general. Especially older nurses. They work long hours. Some are more physical in their particular job than others, but I don't know any that eat healthily, or exercise outside of work. Number 1, they eat at the hospital! 😢 We all know hospital food will kill you! And what they do know about nutrition, they learned from their medical training. Which we all know, will kill you!
And it is shocking to see how many nurses are gathered at the smoking area out in the hospital parking lot, having a cigarette during their break! 😮
@@danieljrgensen133nurses aren't known to be the most physically active, either. Stress and body jobs and all that.
Great job. Your interpretation makes sense and explains some of the paradoxes that we see across studies
Thank you!
So in sum, considering that we live in times where we need to consider not only ours but the health of the planet too, it seems pretty easy to choose the protein source.
Great work Simon 🌱✌🏽
True ❤
THIS
Great explanation, thanks Simon! Interesting recommendation about the Danish dietary guidelines, I'm going to look them up ❤
The key takeaways:
1) Total and animal protein were associated with higher odds of developing chronic disease.
2) Plant protein was associated with lowest odds of becoming physically impaired.
3) Plant protein was associated with higher odds of having good mental health status.
4) Total, animal, and dairy protein were not.
Great info! Thank you for your clear and concise interpretation of the study.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Really appreciate you unpacking this data. Facts matter! Thanks.
My pleasure!
Thank you for this video Simon. Once again, feeling vindicated for going whole food plant exclusive at the beginning of the pandemic. So tired of all the flack I get from folks. This makes it all worthwhile! Wished I had started sooner.
This is awesome!! Love how this video is taking off in views, too! 👏 Fabulous job, you are excellent at these types of videos.
Thanks Michelle
Thank you Simon. I like Layne and appreciate how hard it must be to 100% impartial and lazer beamed on the facts without any bias.
In the interest of getting to the facts so we can all be healthier this is a great balanced breakdown and respectful. A quality that’s missing in a lot of high profile nutritionists. Thank you again.
Great new format! Production quality is on point
Glad you think so!
With this voice you can tell me anything. 😎 Inviting my favorite muscleman doc is a plus. I subbed.
Welcome aboard!
Excellent analysis 👍🏻 I have long COVID and i have lost lots of muscle mass despite being under 40 . I wasn't sure on what type of protein to take and whether to do strength training
Really helpful, thanks a lot! I really appreciate Layne's content but was a bit confused with the video concerning the study you explain here
Glad it was helpful!
Keeping the freezer stocked with assorted Amy's bean burritos
The video should’ve ended when Simon claimed that this study can reliably report what people ate, because they tested this against 7 day food record. In reality this methodology of using food records and comparing it with what people reported showed a very low correlation in Walter Willet’s own study (only 0.21 for Iron and 0.44 for carbohydrates).
A correlation coefficient between 0.7-0.9 can be considered a fairly good coefficient. This method is in fact proved that questionnaire based epidemiological studies CANNOT be reliable.
But Simon chose to manipulate this and tried to give more credit to the paper than it deserves.
He says scientific literacy is important. Yes it is, and if you read the study yourself instead of another vegan CZcamsr to interpret it for you, you’re going to realize how much politics goes into these resarch.
Very helpful, thank you for going through the data so thoroughly. Being 90% WFPB I love the way I am eating, but I respect that we all have to find our groove and that there is space for a varied approach.
You're among the best, Simon, and I should know given that I've been writing about longevity since 2009 (863 articles to date on my website). I appreciate what you do!
Thank you
Awesome analysis! Hitting the Layne on his head, I'd love to see his response. Doubt he will though...
Thanks
Loved this one! The shorter breakdown was a great change of pace 👍
Glad to hear that!
Your breakdowns these studies are just incredible. I feel like you come from a place of truth and non-biased. Layne Seems to push his agenda leaving out a lot of important parts.
Very Eye-opening video. Thank you.
My pleasure!
Honing your craft with time, This was the best analysis so far IMO. The character assassination free format is to be commended as usual. ( I can't finish a LN video, the screaming and ad hominems are too much to take).
Thanks for that! Appreciate the feedback
Stipulating the results of the study are correct, how do we know if we have a positive effect "plant protein" vs a positive effect of "plants"? - the presence of the protein in the whole-food matrix of the plant.
In other words:
(a) If we supplement the animal protein with compounds from plants and healthy dairy such as fiber, polyphenols, fermentation pre/post-biotics, etc., do we see the same benefits as moving to more plant-forward protein sources?
(b) If we supplement the plant group with additional leucine or saturated fat, do we see any reduction in benefits?
We could also consider adding antinutrient compounds like neu5gc to the plant group, or lectins/oxalates to the animal group.
If "replacing 3% energy from animal to plant protein increases odds of healthy aging by 38%" (which would only be a small total shift in amino acid profile of total energy), then ISTM that it less likely the protein composition itself, and more likely beneficial compounds in the plants or fermented dairy.
[edit]: Although now that I'm catching up to "The main plant protein sources were bread, vegetables, fruits, pizza, cereal, baked items, mashed potatoes, nuts, beans, peanut butter, and pasta.", it seems like there were really not a lot of beneficial plant compounds consumed.
After 8 years being plant based, now in my 40s, thriving, I am happy to see more science help people understand what being aligned with nature is. Always considering individuality, I can say to anyone that a predominantly (85%) plant based diet with calories restriction is clearly the best choice for all life on earth.
What food is part of that 15%? Is it fish? And what foods specifically are your main source of protein, carbs, and fat my friend? What do you think is your daily caloric percentage ratio for each of these macronutrients?
All life?
I am 100% plant based. The 85% is for people who make the transition now and to be fair I know the difficulties in the beginning. The 15% is up to you. Personally I eat legumes, mostly lentils every day, with millet or quinoa or brown unprocessed rice, sweet potatoes and seasonal greens. Lots of fruit and green tea. My breakfast is a mix of berries, chia, flaxseed, pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, combined with spices and medicinal mushrooms in powder form! Fasting from sundown to early morning. Yes, this way of living, eating plant based, mostly local & seasonal benefits all life on earth.
@@Psychophski How do you cope with the difficulty of obtaining vitamin b12 and omega 3 with epa and dha? It is difficult to trust a pharmaceutical organization for supplements when some pharmacies have been known to bribe doctors to recommend their product whether it actually works or not in the past.
Thank you Simon, that is a quite interesting study. However i have some uestions in case you read this regarding the plots at 18:12 and following: MUFAs seem to do extremly bad. In all scenarios (total protein, animal protein, plant protein and dairy protein) it seems like reducing MUFA intake will give a benefit. Quite intersitng considering olive oil, avocados and most nuts are pretty high in MUFAs and rather positivley associated with health.
Furthermore at 18:16 what is really strange is, that among all things one could swap for plant protein, SFA did still "best". Swapping out SFA for plant protein was associated with the smallest benefit for plant protein.
Why are SFAs performing not way worse , but MUFAs did??
Probably because MUFAs are also in a lot of animal foods.
Read this paper
“MUFAs from plant (P-MUFAs) were reported to be inversely associated with total mortality, whereas MUFAs from animal (A-MUFAs) were associated with higher mortalit”
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8380819/#:~:text=MUFAs%20from%20plant%20(P%2DMUFAs,(TFAs)%20intake%20on%20mortality.
“ittle and conflicting evidence exists to associate monounsaturated fatty acid (MUFA) intake with risk of mortality. One possible reason is that dietary MUFAs come from both plant- and animal-derived food with divergent dietary components that may have different effects on health outcomes. MUFAs from plant (P-MUFAs) were reported to be inversely associated with total mortality, whereas MUFAs from animal (A-MUFAs) were associated with higher mortality (8). Few epidemiological studies have focused on the effect of trans-fatty acids (TFAs) intake on mortality.”
@@TheProofWithSimonHill thank you man, really appreciate this. MUFA as a proxy for animal foods definitely makes sense up to a certain point. Yet it is strange that swapping MUFAs yield more benefit for healthy aging than swapping animal foods or SFA directly. Well, seems like i have to make a delicious tofu shake with some sunflower oil now xD
Sorry, but I couldn't have found this comment without 'Find in page', CTRL+f on the desktop site of my mobile's chrome browser (there were too many comments on the app).
So, if I am to eat 150 grams of protein a day and be under 1800 calories how can I do that with plant protein? To get 50 grams of protein for each of three meals, I would have to eat three cups of beans, which is on the order of 700 calories alone per meal. Already that puts me at 2100 calories in the day just for protein and we haven’t even gotten to other plants I should be eating every day. How can I make this work and be plant-based?
you can't, that's the point, especially when u know 1,5 to 2gr/kg of bodymass per day is the up to date data backed up by hundreds of study.
@@pierregibran1 So then why does Simon spend so much effort to get everyone off of meat, knowing that no one can get enough protein (lucine really) from plant sources in a practical amount of calories?
Firm Tofu - 100 grams - 20 protein - 150 calories. 60 grams protein for 450 calories with 100 grams x 3 of tofu.
@@ichriscrabtree Getting protein on plant based is easy if you know what you are doing.
There is no evidence of longevity benefit over 1.2gm/kg. 1.5-2 is for jacked roided bodybuilders. Also, all of this is possible with vegan or vegetarian diet. Its not like all omnivores hit 150gram protein daily automatically. These nurses were omnivore and were hitting 50-90 gram protein daily.
Thank you! Much appreciated overview and analysis of the study and topic. ❤
Glad it was helpful!
This is my take home from the paper. “Follow-up questionnaires were administered at baseline and every 2 y thereafter to collect information on lifestyle practices and medical history.” I don’t recall what I had last week. How come people would remember what they had in last years?
Did you miss the part about the food frequency questionnaire validation against weighed food records
@@TheProofWithSimonHillNo we didn’t, that explanation doesn’t change the fact that someone can remember what they have eaten for 7 days. But it’s impossible to remember or estimate 130+ food items with portions and frequency of consumption over 365 days.
If you think you can do that I’m betting you a 100.000 dollars that you’ll be off the charts within 2-3 months unless you’re keeping a daily diary and live 24/7/365 days with a kitchen scale.
Did you really bother to look at the questionnaire itself which is 8 pages of list of food. How can a sane person believe that this questionnaire will being reliable? This is simply insane…
Also I have read the methodology of this 7 day food records in the article. Which is referring to Walter Willet’s previous research on assessing the reliability of food questionnaires with real nutrient intakes ranges from 0.21 for iron to 0.44 for carbs.
Do you get this? The method he used and you defended to prove the reliability of questionnaires compared to actual food intake has extremely low correlation coefficient.
I know most people, including you Simon, won’t read the studies and jump on the conclusions vegan researchers wanted you to jump. But to put this into right words, this study’s methodology is unreliable at best, junk in reality.
Thanks for the really in depth analisis.
Ohhh thank god. Plants all the way.
Simon, thank you for this informative and well-researched podcast episode. I really appreciate how you (and Dr. Nagra) go beyond what is presented by others and take time to explain how the data and studies show otherwise. Wondering how studies like this can propel Americans to start to debunk the myths regarding soy protein.
Ok, just how much of your daily protein do you think should come from plant sources? Dairy? And finally how much do you think can or should come from poultry and red meat each? And why?
"Maybe he can just tell me to f@#$ off" 😂 Love this video!
Maybe he will! Haha
So is whey protein still healthy?
exactly my question lol😂
Would love to see you and Layne discuss further
Excellent summary, succinctly and expertly explained, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing video - thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Norton butchered and misread this paper for his bias, i called him out for it in his comments and wrote a lengthy reddit critique post covering similar points.
Probably you are correct. And I don't want to believe that that's the case so it will be interesting to see if he responds or not. I tried to follow a wide variety of people even though I myself am a whole food plant-based eater but I want to always know what the science says. I found that Norton was a good source of what I thought was reliable information and I trusted him because he's known for changing his mind and making corrections as he goes. I don't want to believe that he deliberately misrepresented the information in the study or deliberately omitted things that he realized would go against his core beliefs! I guess time will tell let's see what he does
I have read this study and believe that your representation of it's analysis is accurate. My main curiosity is with the interaction of protein intake with one of the measured covariates, namely physical activity. Would be interested in an autoregression analysis of said variable with protein type and an analysis of relative effects vs. outcomes.
So if I need at least 150 grams of protein per day, how can I do that consuming only plant proteins? My gut cannot handle a pound of lentils or broccoli or tofu daily. Theres just no way I can get enough protein via plant sources. Also, there’s more to life than a perfect diet. Genetics play a major role in our outcomes regardless. Just don’t be overweight and exercise a lot and you’ll be just fine even eating lots of animal protein.
"Just don’t be overweight and exercise a lot and you’ll be just fine even eating lots of animal protein." - The study says otherwise
Great assessment. I love nuance of the stats.
I am 65 year old and I eat plant based. I often have to defend my diet to my peers. I tell my friends that mammals that eat animal protein are short lived like tigers and wolves, while mammals which eat plants are long lived - like elephants and gorillas.
What about whales? They don't eat plants yet are the longest living mammal. Orcas as well. Chimps and humans also both live longer than gorillas and are omnivores.
It's not the diet. Its the length of breath. That is how average life span is shorter or longer.
Another great video! Thank you 😃
You’re most welcome
After reaching my 60s I started watching protein intake...glad I went with pea protein based supplements rather then milk based. Always thought milk was just for baby cows and tried to avoid it my whole life. As a youngster milk was forced on us from parents and dairy subsidy school lunches.
This outcome just makes sense - milk, eggs, cheese, yogurt are very easy for us to digest and we have a high % of ingesting the protein from these sources. Meats require a lot of "work" by our digestive track to process. Adding nuts also enables the nuts to help clean the walls of our digestive track, but many of us don't ingest more than 30% of the protein that's in nuts. However I would stay away from any soy protein as soy drives up estrogen levels. Also stay away from any eggs that had soy being fed to the chickens. These eggs test for 4x the amount of estrogen vs. eggs with no soy being fed to the hen.
It has been proven so many times, please read studies. Also there are plenty of videos showing the blood work of vegan bodybuilders. They eat a high amount of soy and the results don't show any increase in estrogen whatsoever. It's just a freaking mith.
7:57 This might have been a statistical artifact, but aren't the effects of total protein and animal protein on absence of chronic diseases significantly negative in table 8 S1 after correction for fruits and vegs?
Nice analysis
Thank you
Great video, Simon! I really appreciate your thorough analysis of the recent Harvard study on protein sources and longevity.
I particularly agree with your emphasis on the benefits of plant-based proteins. The study's findings align well with existing research showing that plant-based proteins can reduce inflammation and improve cardiovascular health. Your breakdown of the optimal intake levels was spot on and crucial for those looking to balance their diet without overloading on animal-based sources.
One area that I think warrants further exploration is the study's limited focus on the diversity of protein sources within plant-based diets. For example, the potential differences in health impacts between various legumes, nuts, and seeds weren't fully addressed. Additionally, the long-term effects of protein combinations and their impact on the gut microbiome would be an interesting angle to dive deeper into. The study's scope on exercise and its interaction with protein intake could also provide a richer understanding of how diet and physical activity together influence longevity.
Another important point to consider is the connection between higher fiber intake and plant proteins versus animal proteins. The increased fiber from plant-based diets could be a significant factor contributing to the health benefits observed, impacting gut health, cholesterol levels, and more.
Overall, your insights are incredibly valuable, and I look forward to more content like this! 💪
Well played with the information available. Recommendations were spot on for me. One of the increased risk factors in meat may not be the protein but saturated fats. I follow Dr. Taylor's hint to leave the extra fat of a pork chop on the plate.
It is all maybe, maybe , nothing exact!
Science is about reducing uncertainty. If you want certainty it may not be for you. My goal is to accurately communicate the information. Where I’ve said ‘may’ it is acknowledgement that
, despite this being a high quality study, there could be factors that are not adjusted for/considered that explain the results.
low carb gurus be like f.. your facts! im here to make some money
I rarely eat vegetables, I eat mostly quality meats , eggs and cheese, 20% oatmeal and breads with a mix of collagen., lots of quality chocolates, and a limited amount of alcohol and other stimulants including sugar is kept at a minimum, lots of sun and constantly staying active no matter the pain.
This is a really good study and your video does an excellent job breaking it down! Thanks for the work!
As a next step I'd like to see data that goes into more detail with animal and dairy protein. The reason being that I get most of my protein from animal sources however it is largely from fatty fish like sardines and salmon, fermented dairy (i drink about half a cup almost every day) and some eggs, at most 6 per week. I might eat other types of meat maybe twice a week in a typical week. My impression of the scientific literature is fish and fermented dairy garner a lot of health benefits, so it quid be interesting to see the methods used in this study executed on them, as well as eggs.
Maybe that will be done later? Hopefully!
Some great points!
My impression is that Dr Norton knows all the answers and knows what he wants to be the results, and this frees him up from having to do the analysis or even read the studies.
Fantastic information and analysis! I am a big meat eater and this gives me much to think about.
Thanks for the great work, Simon. One question, though, about Dr. Nagra's talk about adjustment for fruits and vegetables. When he mentions that plant protein added benefits could be potentialised by other nutrients like fiber... Wasn't it adjusted for fiber as well?
What does it mean to replace 3% of total calories? From what baseline of dietary pattern to what other pattern? What actual substitution of foods we are talking about, meaning what components in the diet change together with this substitution? This information doesn't tell much Simon
Most surprising thing here to me was the significant (more than any other nutrient) benefits of replacing MUFA with any type of protein? Any thoughts?
Fantastic calm and clear explanation Simon. Any insights on why MUFAs compared so unfavourably in the forest plots?
See my comments below on this! Thanks
Newbie amateur studies reader: how do researchers take into account any other factor impacting longevity ? How to they separate the effect of let's say the lemon juice or olive oil used in a salad, that positively impact longevity as well ?
In this and most of the papers "Cox proportional hazards models" are used. Then it's up to the researcher and the data what you want and can model.
You can separate dressing and vegetables from a salad if you have the data and if you want to. Or you can just assume the composition of an average salad. Or you just use "salad" as a quantity in your model.
In general I find the interpretation of data not easy because you have to find out what things like "animal protein", "plant protein" and "MUFA" precisely mean in the model. And that's not reported in the main part of the paper most of the time. If you're lucky it's in the supplementary data.
Multidimensional quantities like "plant protein" (i.e. increase plant protein can be archived by doing very different things) in Cox models means more like "typical plant protein". So all the possible plant protein is weighted by more or less how typical their consumption is in the population (it's more complicated). That gives you a one-dimensional quantity comprised of a weighted sum of individual plant protein sources.
Hi Simon! Thank you for all your work. I appreciate it very much.
I noticed you take Momentous Protein. Have you considered Sunwarrioir?
That one does not have Saturated Fats.
Also very good!
@@TheProofWithSimonHillthank you so much for replying. I’m a new follower and I love your content!❤ Thank you so much for all the love, care and dedication you give.