Exploring an ancient native American battle site! Searching for the lost wagon train of 1845!
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- čas přidán 20. 09. 2021
- This is part 4 of an adventure that's only beginning! Grumpy and I head out to a top secret location in the middle of the central Oregon desert to explore a native American village complete with ambush bunkers that we believe to have been used in the Oregon Indian Wars of 1855-1856.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Never too old to have a firsty in the desert. Everyone needs a Grumpy! This is an awesome series Casey, thanks!
Thanx for sharing your experience
Have a Great Day 👍
Casey, join or contact the Oregon State Archaeology Society, you can get access to their huge library and reports and findings and details on many archaeologically significant sites. I am quite sure this sight has been recorded, written about and likely studied by some professional archaeologists but, unless you are a close friend of one you will never be privy to any of the info unless it get publiched in a magazine or newspaper article. I'm a new subscriber, live in Montana and grew up in Wyoming...love history and I am an amateur archaeologist (also a flintknapper). You are talking my language now buddy...wheeling and archaeology, woohoo! This place you found is very interesting, good find!!
This is cool! Here’s a thought: A hundred years ago a lot those trees weren’t there and there was probably more grass. Maybe they kept their horses in that depression. That way they could watch them from those small rises. Find a water source and you’ll likely find more to the story!
It would be really interesting to get along that trail with a metal detector. Great series Casey, very interesting.
That is an interesting place. Appears to be the site of an ancient Indian village, but could have been other people who used Indian style housing. I think the big question to answer was water available in 1845-55. The bunkers do appear to be ambush positions, or they might have been defensive positions. From what I understand, Meek thought he was following what was a horse or mule trail through the area. We do know that folks other than Indians had been in the area before Meek and certainly after the train. There would have been a powerful reason to stack that much large rock. Could there have been a military group in the area to do that? Keep up the effort, we are looking forward to more.
This whole series has been amazing as I've been looking forward to it since you said you and Grumpy were going to explore it. Definitely look forward to future videos as you research and explore more
I think they are for buffalo hunting.
1. Buffaloes will take the lowest and easiest way and why build a bunker with two sides and several bunkers facing different directions when a wagon trail is going to follow the track. If the wagon follows the track you only need one side for a bunker to make a ambush. a buffalo will go on either side of the trees / bunkers
the second clue is they are set around big trees. buffaloes will avoid the tree / bunker and that is the strategic place to put the bunker for protection from a thundering buffaloe herd.
Third, if there was a massacre of wagon trains of a big number poineers killed then there will be reports and stuff written down of it and there are none and more graves would in the area.
Ooooh. I like this.
That's very possible, but also why I think it could have been from the Indian Wars. The wagon train went right through here, but I don't think it had anything to with it
I had the same thought, several Indians would move the herd and they would not take the chance of going through the rough rock and avoid the trees. Great kill zones for a long distance and able to shoot from several directions.
That's a great find I've followed trails in Arizona fro the stage coaches and have found several old locations
The people who made the "bunkers" moved a lot of rock from around that immediate area. I say that because the natural outcroppings are small and scattered about. There was a lot of thought and effort that went into that site.
Pretty cool in many ways.
I enjoyed the entire 4 part series Casey. I noticed not once did you have to stop to get fuel! : )
The Dodge has a much bigger fuel tank than the Ford!
Incredible history. Thanks for taking us along. Looking forward to more
Casey, not sure how much of a reader you are. It you should check out the 5 book series called Thunder Over the Ochocos. True accounts of the Native American people in the Ochoco mountains of Oregon. I couldn’t put it down until I finished the series. An awesome series of books if you’re into the history of Oregon.
This is really a cool series exploring the Oregon Trail and finding part of it, that wasn't previously found. Then finding out it runs right through both of your properties is really amazing! When my grandfather passed away he had this oil on canvas painting that was gifted to him in the 1970s from this very rich lady whom he worked on her mansion doing odd electrical jobs for. My father gave it to me when he passed. It's from John Young Hunter and titled the old Sante fe trail. I'll try to get a quick short video of it over the next few days to share with you. It's very cool it has baby calves in a covered wagon, a man standing by the wagon a lady and a couple Indians sitting down in front of it. This is from my memory, I haven't hung it up yet it's in a shed with alot of other possessions that came from his house. Thanks again for sharing all of this with us and hopefully more like this will be in the future.
Some really, amazing old structures, that can still be found, awesome sauce!
Casey. I don’t see this connected to the Meeks cutoff. You are right. This is later. I’ll do some research. This is obviously a major event. Something went down here. Look in the low parts of the wash for arrow heads.
Thank you for yet another interesting video! Always fun to learn more about local history, especially history that isn't even that long ago.
I am definitely curious to hear if there are any stories that describe that ambush side being used to attack anyone!
Because it seems quite a lot of work to invest in such an ambush site to not use it at all or to only use it once.
Love the history
That was so amazing. Thanks for showing us!!
Casey, you might contact "heavyDsparks" another CZcamsr from the Salt Lake City, Utah area, and is known to do a lot of interesting projects supporting other guys like you. He is a Helicopter Pilot and I would think he would love to give you some help with a flight over the areas you have been exploring from the ground. You know you can get a real good view from the air, and It seams like this project you are doing would be right up his line of projects that he likes to get involved in.
what a cool and interesting adventure series. And thank you for not divulging the location!
I love your channel casey both the exploration and the recoveries the scenery is so amazing 👍
Y'all need to explore more
Mr Casey thanks for sharing and stay safe.
Best part of the series yet. Thank you.
Really cool find, Casey, and I love that you guys are having this exploration, fun to watch!
Great stuff keep it coming
Hey Little Grumpy, do you think that the bunkers might be parts of winter housing? It is also amazing that the area has not been decimated by fire over time. Super interesting adventure. Thank you.
Wow how neat! That would be an excellent place to look for arrowheads and other artifacts. This is such a great change for your content. I have just found your channel and I LOVE watching the rescues but History is a favorite of mine as well. THANK you for sharing.
Are you high centered 🤣
“ I think I need to get him some water “ 😂
Since I don’t have much info on my ancestors I would love to see this just to get an idea this is pretty kool thanks for the vids
If you haven't you should reach out to authors of those books to share what you found. That is a Oregon treasure.
Great series of videos. I enjoy finding out about lost history. Thanks for taking us along.
I love how you care for grumpy 😊 25:15 mark
Loving it keep going!
What an amazing adventure you and grumpy did on that day
Casey and Grumpy good job on this project. It will be interesting to see what else you find.
Mr. Grumpy, he could be, Derek Jacobi's doppelgänger.
This is a really cool place, but am I the only one that thinks there might be an excessive amount of these bunkers? They were either paranoid, or actually had a reeely big problem w/ somebody...
Real interesting video. A great way to spend the day. Im afraid that when the asshats find it, they will burn the wood and destroy the bunkers. I jave no idea why people do such things. Thank you for sharing with us.
Yep, time for a great metal detector, great job and video!
Maybe there are undiscovered stories in journals, etc. in the archives of the area universities. Sometimes there are treasures waiting to be found...
Well, I hope you've been doing research over the winter and are about ready to get back out there with a couple of metal detectors soon. This is just fascinating! Really enjoy your exploring adventures. We used to do our own exploring in the forests of northern Arizona. Love being able to "ride along" with you. Thanks!
Any updates on finding more of the trail? Only 2 of the vids in this series are in the playlist 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks! I am really enjoying your videos. You never mentioned if Grumpy was correct about the mileage. Looking forward to the next exploration video.
Looks like the American version of a European medieval castle / fortification: create a high point to look around in all directions, with protection to entranch yourself.
Hi Casey! I was mining in John Day and did alot of reading on this. The library in John Day has quite a bit of stuff on this. I searched around more east this
trail. Very interesting following u on this for sure.
Dam i wish i was there with you i love that stuff
Glad to see you mention a metal detector. I suggest a Minelab Equinox 800.
Very cool, and so interesting. You couldn't have a better partner in crime then Grumpy.
Casey this is the 4 video on the 1845 wagon train, but you only have 2 on your playlist.
Interesting, definitely love the variety of terrain... Tom's comment about elk, made me wonder (lol, don't know elk! But white tails here got all wheel drive.). But were there any herding animals there, ever? Bison? Gotta think about weapons effective distance, when looking at those barriers & tracking areas too.
Thanx, definitely fun...
Kewl video
From what you were showing it looks like they spent some time there. This is very interesting and fun . That's what I like about the Pacific northwest. I'm surprised that you haven't found arrow heads but with the wind blowing the soil it would cover them up fast.
You can see even more with a drone?its amazing the views you can see,,Make another trip toRome Or,that was a cool area also
After watching these videos I thought of a few places I think you would enjoy if you haven't been to them yet Fort Walla Walla Museum, Whitman Mission Historic site and The Great Platt River Road Archway they don't specifically have to do with the Meeks trail but each provide interesting information about the trail West
If there is any kind of Indian foundation or and like in your area check with them to see if there's any information about that place. I live this little series, it so cool to find out information like this.
I’m surprised you haven’t ran onto some bones. Good job. Also the wagon tracks are still visible in the Sandhills of Nebraska due to our wind.
looking forward to your return with metal detectors
Food for thought. Probability that site is older than you think. Animal travel by the easiest route, wagons the same, perfect hunting/ambush site. Native Americans were nomadic following the food. Duce
How big were those juniper trees 175 years ago? A lot smaller I would think! I would think at least some trees would have partially engulfed the bunker rocks and branches or at least pushed over some rocks. These bunkers could be a lot more recent. An old movie set, perhaps?
Don't know about movie set, but I had the same question as to age of trees that some of the structures were built against. Maybe Casey can speak to that.
One thing I remember you saying was that it took the wagon train 3 years to reach the coast area? If that is so, then where were they for all that time? Is it possible that this could have been a winter camp? Using canvas from the wagons, or tarps they could close in the 'houses' for the winter. If there is an appreciable amount of snow would it have been enough to sustain people and animals? It strikes me the wagons would have a hard time getting through that sandy area. Might it all have been washed down off the higher areas over the last 175 years and have been somewhat firmer then?
as it goes further it looks more defensive or settlement like
did you guys figure out anymore on the trail and that site? pretty cool things to find in the middle of nowhere!
That was great Casey and Grumpy 👍 but I'm not a expert in this but by looking at all this is I would think it's fighting ground like you said and I don't think it was for the wagon train because like you said it was a one time thing and they were lost and by doing all this by hand would of been a long project you would think 🤔 the only thing is what ever took place here I would think it had riffles involved for having rock walls because arrow don't go through wood like bullets do. And if they would have ambushed the wagon train I don't think they would of made it through the way they were set up.
looks similar to the caribou hunting sites in the north the ones in sibera and possibley alaska go back way into prehistory u find lots of stone arrows and spears
How old are the larger Juniper trees? How big would they have been 160 years ago?
Juniper lives 350 to 700 years so maybe the larger ones were about 1/3 shorter or so
Also I believe look for Blue bucket mine
I used to live in Bend. I tooled around the desert all the time in a 2wd Ford pickup. I miss that country; but Bend has gotten way to big since I moved away in 1989. Oregon has gotten way to liberal.
One more thing, paintball players did not leave that trash. We pick up our trash when we are done or you would not be invited back for the next game.
There are places like that around Tumalo and alfalfa where they were training the military during ww2 I have seen places like that with fox holes under trees and stacked rock in the rocky areas they were setting up an ambush in alfalfa actually found a plane crash behind the fox holes there still was a huge hole in the sand where the plane hit and debris scattered for 200 yards in front with part of the landing gear still there If you have a metal detector go around those fox holes because their army pants had big pockets that a lot of things fell out of around Tumalo we found a baby food jar full of those mercury penny's
Could you take small piece of some of the assembled wood structures and have it carbon dated?
Think Grumpy is right: logic dictates that the wagons followed trails that were already there.
Maybe it was a village and those bunkers were fortifications to defend their homes
The looting of many historic sites has many significant sites being kept secret. Back in my soil mapping days I had to give the state archeologist the location of the hole I wanted to dig and ... he would consult the secret list and let me know if I could, or not.
Hunting blinds, maybe. Elk don’t shoot back though.
That's a Ford bumper off of a late 70s early 80s truck
Sorry I had to down tut it the camera was so shaky and the the audio was terrible it was in watchable
After seeing this video, what puzzles me is the trees and the rocks that are built up against them. If we are talking that these formations were created back in the mid 1850's, those tress were way smaller or even none existent. Therefore, are these bunkers and rock walls that are leaning against these trees built later in time? Not trying to be a doubter but this has me puzzled.
This all turned out to be built in the 1940's by the US Army
@@CaseyLaDelle Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the quick reply. I enjoy your channel and your unique rescues.
Cheers from Florida!
@Casey LaDelle I kept looking for other artifacts. No other evidence is obvious. No tools, cooking utensils, weapons or expenditures. Just stacked sticks and rocks.
Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I am curious if you've ever contacted any Indian tribes that were living in this area.
Two words: Metal Detector.
Are you finding any markings on the trees?
What about tribal hunting blinds?
So anymore updates on the wagon train.
Don't stop exploring; that combined with imagination takes you back to a time when assholes didn't leave their bumper trashing up mother nature's beauty.
So who was right how many miles to the paved road mystery that may never be answered-!!!
Are you working with local tribes?
I want to know who was right. Was it 6 or 10 miles out to the road?
Question.... What kind of trees are those? They cannot have been there 177 years ago, could they? These rock formations seem to be built around the trees, which makes it unlikely that these formations date to 1845. Just thinking is all... Thanks.
Linda
Lots of juniper in previous videos so probably more of the same, they live up to 700 years so the larger ones definitely would have been there. Would love to see an artists impression of the area at the time this was in use
Did you ever figure out who was closer with the milage?
Are there any petroglyphs in the area?
Would like to see some carbon dating experiments done on the wood from the shelters.
This is an paintball place, I played paintball there 15 years ago, paintball players made this, so yes they are bunkers. So if I am right and this is the spot it would be ok to slightly give the location by only saying, north east of mayfield pond. And yes it is a hard place to find and the roads are Horrible one reason most people don’t go there anymore.
Ahh, modern archeology
Can you contact any of the Native American Nations that live in or around Oregon?
Hey does anyone know what tribes where in that area?
So Native Americans were some of first people to develop "tiny homes"! Why don't you and Grumpy pitch in a few bucks and rent a helicopter ride between your house and your secret "Indian Village Site. Your phone can give you the GPS coordinates?
Enjoy your vacation time with the Family. We will wait for your next Oregon Trail-Indian Wars Adventure-through the desert.
could use a drone too
Could very well be a place where the wagon train spent the winter think about home much 200 people would have camps
Map the place with a GPS mapping app
You guys are wearing the same shirts
Fun. Careful how much you wiggle that camera, though. Am getting a stomach ache...