i love the 7prc.with that in mind your test is flawed.there is factory ammo for the 28 nosler in 175gr from nosler at around 3100 fps.all things being equal the 28 beats the prc in all categories except for wind drift.i build and shoot both..7 prc is easier to load for and easier on the shoulder.if you dont already have a big 7 the prc is probably the way to go.
This cartridge looks like a great candidate for being an excellent moose and elk hunting option particularly when coupled with the Barnes 168gr LRX bullet. These bullets are long and require fast twist rate. With the 175gr ELDX you have heaps of surplus performance in terms of maximum range… If you are an ethical range hunter that operates inside of say 500m… by going with a copper monolithic like the LRX you can convert that long range surplus into useable penetration performance, which increases quartering shot performance and increases your probability of achieving exit wounds and thus stronger blood trails which increases your probability of successful recovery. I say bravo Hornady… this is going to be a sweet spot cartridge for Moose/Elk hunters. And what the heck… throw in a light bullet like the 120gr TTSX going smoking fast and you have a damn fine flat shooting high MPBR rifle for deer hunting… I think we are going to find this one is versatile enough for the one gun fudds out there too! Cheers
Hi Trevor. I totally agree with your observations and I love your idea of a 120 grain Barnes TTSX. I’m excited about this cartridge. However, looking at availability of ammunition and components where I live, I might need to consider a 7mm Rem Mag as an interim solution. All the best!
I never owned a 7mm rifle before because I have always been a 30 cal. man, but as soon as I saw the stats and the underlying reasons for its development, I like everyone else, couldn’t wait to get my hands on a rifle built for it! And much to my satisfaction, I was right!!! Your review is spot on, validating my own impressions of this awesome cartridge!!! Thanks so much for putting into layman’s terms what is proving to be a really great cartridge for not only hunters, but also long range shooters! Keep putting out these great videos!!
Almost no one shoots 1 moa at hunting field conditions, not counting hunting from blinds, even then its not easy. Elk guide in Colorado who guided thousands of customers, before hunt while still at lodge, always asked whats their accuracy, tested them before leaving, answers and results warried from 0.75 to 1.5 moa or so. Then, during hunting trip, when customers were few days into a hunt, tired.. he told them to shoot some tests, maybe across canyon, angle shots, they had to guess their wind, few different shooting positions., all of them shot... you ready? 3.5 to 5 moa. Most of his customers were intermediate or better hunters.
I agree 1 MOA under field conditions is not easy. And I hope I stressed it sufficiently in the video. I think your example is interesting or perhaps concerning. There's a difference between precision (your baseline for how close your shots group) and accuracy (your ability to hit where you're aiming under field conditions (wind and drop etc.). Precision can be hard enough when you have to adjust to field conditions. And often only have a little time. Accuracy, adjusting for wind, is a whole other game. One that takes years of regular practice. Thanks for sharing this cautionary story. All the best.
Straight up, I think the 7PRC was overcooked. The 6.5PRC was a slightly gruntier 6.5Crd, whereas the 7PRC tried to better the 7RemMag. Instead it should have sat between the 7-08 and the 7RemMag. The incredibly tight tolerances are also a minus in my book, it's a great 'on paper' and 'brand new' cartridge but I think in practice a lot of manufacturers are rightly concerned about the tight tolerances. I notice no Tikka 7PRC option yet for example, and ammo is expensive / hard to find. Overall the 7PRC would have been better as a modern, slightly gruntier 7-08, instead of a 'magnum killer'.
Huh? 7PRC factory ammo pushes a heavier, higher BC projectile faster than the FACTORY 7RM. I don't think that has been or can be disputed. Every metric in the video has the PRC outperforming the RM. So can you explain what you mean when you say the PRC should've sat between the RM and 08? IDGAF about either cartridge being better or worse, but I'm not understanding your assessment. The only thing I can try to interpret is you're saying the metrics are incorrect, but you didn't say that, and I'm not sure it would matter. Before saying what it "should've been," let's clear up what it actually is first. Other than some, not much, but some validity about ammo availability, what are you seeing that could possibly make you think that the PRC needs to be anything it isn't? What makes you think the PRC is "overcooked?" If you're disputing the data here, say that. If you aren't, you're simply wrong. Why does everyone get so personally offended if their favorite cartridge (which is a concept I don't understand) even possibly might be outperformed, in even the slightest way? They're fucking rifle cartridges, pick what you like and go be you.
Looks like it was set up to show the high points for 7 prc. 28 nosler shoots 175 eldx all day. I’m getting a 7 prc. Already have a 28 and 7 mag. 😂 caliber doesn’t matter Bc and mv’s.
IMO. This comes down to how these higher b.c. bullets perform on game. Because up to 500 yards they are all nearly identical. But past 500 the prc is a no brainer.
What about chamber tolerances improving accuracy? The 7 PRC comes from the factory with basically a match grade chamber where the older 7mm rem mag was spec-ed out by sammi with looser tolerances.
That's a great point. Thanks for flagging it! I don't know why I forgot to mention it. That's a definite benefit of the PRC. It will be easier to develop accurate loads in a factory rifle. As you suggest. I wanted to focus primarily on pure ballistic performance. And perhaps I didn't emphasize enough how important accuracy is to get maximum performance in the wind. I don't have any data showing the difference, which is why one of the reasons I didn't sped that much time on this point. In hindsight, I should have highlighted this practical benefit more. Thanks again for calling it out. All the best, and Merry Christmas.
That is exactly why I like it. Most rifle makers can make a .308 W or a .30-06 Sprg fast and sloppy and get away with it. But the specs for 7 mm PRC are such that you have to build a precision rifle. It has such minimal free bore is one of the main things. And so, even though I have been a 308 guy and have 4 rifles in .308 W, I am truly excited about the 7 PRC and have ordered one and assorted things to go with it. Where I live in the USA, hunting deer can range from 100 yards in a primeval forest in the eastern part to a desert canyon in the west with stated shots of 200 yards or more. From what I can see, the 7 PRC is able to push a heavy for caliber fast and have less drop than others. So, I have been using 165 in .308 and now I can push 175 grain close to 3 grand and have more than 1,000 foot-pounds for even farther. Granted, I am not going to hunt whitetail deer at 1,000 yards but the mule deer in the western part of my state can be seen at a few hundred yards. Not many trees. And you cannot normally get a mule deer by putting salt on his tail. You have to shoot from a distance with heavy-ish bullet.
Not sure where you are getting your data but the 28 has 1moa less drift at 400 than the 7prc. And that's assuming you get anywhere near the published speed for prc. The guns we are building and running Hornady factory ammo in are running 2830 and with handloads trying to get more speed we see ejector marks at 2850.
Hi Jackson, Thanks for flagging this. I used muzzle velocity for Hornady Precision Hunter ammunition with their choice of bullet weight for ELD-X bullets. I ran the data using Berger's online calculator. I'm unsure if it's a cheeky move from Hornady or strict adherence to SAAMI spec, but they have used the 175 grain bullet for the PRC and the 162 grain bullet for the 28 Nosler. That could cause some of the discrepancy you see between my data and your own. The muzzle velocity you mention is lower than the ones published for the ammo, as you probably know. Are the numbers you share muzzle velocities? with 175 grain ELD-X? In that case there's a fairly big discrepancy between the factory data and what you experience in practice. Enough to be a significant factor when deciding. Thanks again for your input. All the best.
Would 1/8.44 twist be enough to stabilize the factory 175gr 28 nosler ammo from nosler? The commercial ammo price of 175gr 28 nosler is $100-$120 a box and occasionally a sale for $60 a box. The factory 7mm Eldx-type cartridges are at $60 a box and should be on sales at $40 a box. It would be nice to get the factory savage 110 ultralight at 1/8.44 twist if it will stabilize the 175gr accubond/partition bullet.
Hi there. It depends on what bullet. Stability has to do with length (among other things), not weight, although the two are obviously related. It might stabilize the accubond, but I don't know about the AB LR, which is pretty long. I recommend you use Berger Bullet's stability calculator to be on the safe side. All the best.
@@RedKettleEfficientHunting Thanks, yes the accubond is 1.55 which is just above the 1.5 comfortable stability for berger. I am guessing savage makes the 1/8.44 28 nosler barrels for this reason specifically. As long as its not too cold near sea level it stays above the 1.5.
You mention the 300 PRC, I have one and I love it, it’s a performer on all levels but I am building a 7 PRC for small critters like deer and pronghorn.
Hi Adam, thanks for sharing your experience. I don't mean to suggest that the ELD-X is the best bullet for 7mm. I wanted as much of a like-for-like comparison as possible. And show folks the best possible ballistic performance in factory ammo. The ELD-X in the Hornady ammo was a good way of doing that (not the only one). All the best!
@@RedKettleEfficientHunting they are accurate but I was very disappointed with all of the hype behind them. I think for whitetail I think their SST line is better. Not knocking your video, just my personal experience in the field.
Hi Adam. It's great to hear your experience. The point of this channel is to give hunters food for thought so I appreciate your feedback. I've had great results with SSTs in the past and I'll make a note of your comments. All the best.
The 175 ELDX was effective on the whitetail I took on December 30. It was a poor shot location that was squarely on me. The deer was down right there, but not dead right there. He would have definitely left the area with a Grendel or similar cartridge. That being said, I have grown to trust expanding coppers over lead core bullets and am working on loads for 160 grain coppers that I will use next year. This is a big change for me as I have been a Ballistic Tip and Accubond disciple for many years. The whitetails I, and my daughter, took with the 6.5 Grendel had consistent entry and exit wound size with good internal damage. No fragmentation. We'll see if they stay together at the higher velocities provided by the PRC.
@@diggernash1 yeah but that's a bigger chunk of lead with more energy. I wasn't a fan. The 143's may be better with the extra powder behind them of the PRC. What was the 175, a 7 mag?
I will beat all those metrics of PRC with a 7 mag. You know what PRC stands for? Public relations cartridge. You can buy 7 rem mag in a lot of offerings with 8 twist, 8.5 twist and 9 twist. If you extend to the furthest seating depth of the PRC and the 7mm Rem Mag. Rem mag has more powder space and it also has more killing power. Never take 7mm Rem Mag for granted. It is the king of the 7mm bullets and it’s design is way ahead of its time. It actually has a .115 freebore long but not to long and not to short. This tied with a 8.5 twist barrel allows you to shoot light and heavy bullets accurately. PRC cannot do that.
Public Relations Cartridge :-) Thanks for sharing your experience Spud. And think you're right that the 7mm Rem Mag is hard to beat for pure availability. I've missed the 8" twist offerings when researching. The majority I found were 9" and some 8.5". And the Hornady factory ammo I based the test on isn't loaded with the heavier bullet. Hence my conclusions. I hope it was clear I think this is a close race. And that there isn't such a think as a magic cartridge. I appreciate your input and will consider it when I pick a 7mm magnum. All the best.
@@RedKettleEfficientHunting thanks and if I was to pick one it would be a fierce, a browning certain models have the twist of 1:8, or the new alpha 1 700 Remington has a 1;8 and 3.924” mag box.
@@RedKettleEfficientHunting the new fierce they just released specs on would be the one. Lightweight and 1:8.5 twist which I prefer over 1:8. No problem
![7mm PRC Is Overrated - Here Is Why [Compared to other Cartridges]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XJNY1H6q9VA/mqdefault.jpg)
![7mm PRC Is Overrated - Here Is Why [Compared to other Cartridges]](/img/tr.png)
i love the 7prc.with that in mind your test is flawed.there is factory ammo for the 28 nosler in 175gr from nosler at around 3100 fps.all things being equal the 28 beats the prc in all categories except for wind drift.i build and shoot both..7 prc is easier to load for and easier on the shoulder.if you dont already have a big 7 the prc is probably the way to go.
This cartridge looks like a great candidate for being an excellent moose and elk hunting option particularly when coupled with the Barnes 168gr LRX bullet. These bullets are long and require fast twist rate.
With the 175gr ELDX you have heaps of surplus performance in terms of maximum range… If you are an ethical range hunter that operates inside of say 500m… by going with a copper monolithic like the LRX you can convert that long range surplus into useable penetration performance, which increases quartering shot performance and increases your probability of achieving exit wounds and thus stronger blood trails which increases your probability of successful recovery.
I say bravo Hornady… this is going to be a sweet spot cartridge for Moose/Elk hunters. And what the heck… throw in a light bullet like the 120gr TTSX going smoking fast and you have a damn fine flat shooting high MPBR rifle for deer hunting… I think we are going to find this one is versatile enough for the one gun fudds out there too!
Cheers
Hi Trevor. I totally agree with your observations and I love your idea of a 120 grain Barnes TTSX.
I’m excited about this cartridge. However, looking at availability of ammunition and components where I live, I might need to consider a 7mm Rem Mag as an interim solution.
All the best!
I never owned a 7mm rifle before because I have always been a 30 cal. man, but as soon as I saw the stats and the underlying reasons for its development, I like everyone else, couldn’t wait to get my hands on a rifle built for it! And much to my satisfaction, I was right!!! Your review is spot on, validating my own impressions of this awesome cartridge!!! Thanks so much for putting into layman’s terms what is proving to be a really great cartridge for not only hunters, but also long range shooters! Keep putting out these great videos!!
Thanks. I’m happy to hear this video helped you!
Almost no one shoots 1 moa at hunting field conditions, not counting hunting from blinds, even then its not easy. Elk guide in Colorado who guided thousands of customers, before hunt while still at lodge, always asked whats their accuracy, tested them before leaving, answers and results warried from 0.75 to 1.5 moa or so. Then, during hunting trip, when customers were few days into a hunt, tired.. he told them to shoot some tests, maybe across canyon, angle shots, they had to guess their wind, few different shooting positions., all of them shot... you ready? 3.5 to 5 moa. Most of his customers were intermediate or better hunters.
I agree 1 MOA under field conditions is not easy. And I hope I stressed it sufficiently in the video.
I think your example is interesting or perhaps concerning.
There's a difference between precision (your baseline for how close your shots group) and accuracy (your ability to hit where you're aiming under field conditions (wind and drop etc.).
Precision can be hard enough when you have to adjust to field conditions. And often only have a little time. Accuracy, adjusting for wind, is a whole other game. One that takes years of regular practice.
Thanks for sharing this cautionary story. All the best.
Straight up, I think the 7PRC was overcooked. The 6.5PRC was a slightly gruntier 6.5Crd, whereas the 7PRC tried to better the 7RemMag. Instead it should have sat between the 7-08 and the 7RemMag. The incredibly tight tolerances are also a minus in my book, it's a great 'on paper' and 'brand new' cartridge but I think in practice a lot of manufacturers are rightly concerned about the tight tolerances. I notice no Tikka 7PRC option yet for example, and ammo is expensive / hard to find.
Overall the 7PRC would have been better as a modern, slightly gruntier 7-08, instead of a 'magnum killer'.
Huh? 7PRC factory ammo pushes a heavier, higher BC projectile faster than the FACTORY 7RM. I don't think that has been or can be disputed. Every metric in the video has the PRC outperforming the RM. So can you explain what you mean when you say the PRC should've sat between the RM and 08? IDGAF about either cartridge being better or worse, but I'm not understanding your assessment. The only thing I can try to interpret is you're saying the metrics are incorrect, but you didn't say that, and I'm not sure it would matter. Before saying what it "should've been," let's clear up what it actually is first. Other than some, not much, but some validity about ammo availability, what are you seeing that could possibly make you think that the PRC needs to be anything it isn't? What makes you think the PRC is "overcooked?" If you're disputing the data here, say that. If you aren't, you're simply wrong. Why does everyone get so personally offended if their favorite cartridge (which is a concept I don't understand) even possibly might be outperformed, in even the slightest way? They're fucking rifle cartridges, pick what you like and go be you.
This is the most underrated 7mm review, shows facts not feelings.
Thanks a lot!
Looks like it was set up to show the high points for 7 prc. 28 nosler shoots 175 eldx all day. I’m getting a 7 prc. Already have a 28 and 7 mag. 😂 caliber doesn’t matter Bc and mv’s.
IMO. This comes down to how these higher b.c. bullets perform on game. Because up to 500 yards they are all nearly identical. But past 500 the prc is a no brainer.
What about chamber tolerances improving accuracy? The 7 PRC comes from the factory with basically a match grade chamber where the older 7mm rem mag was spec-ed out by sammi with looser tolerances.
That's a great point. Thanks for flagging it!
I don't know why I forgot to mention it. That's a definite benefit of the PRC. It will be easier to develop accurate loads in a factory rifle. As you suggest.
I wanted to focus primarily on pure ballistic performance. And perhaps I didn't emphasize enough how important accuracy is to get maximum performance in the wind.
I don't have any data showing the difference, which is why one of the reasons I didn't sped that much time on this point. In hindsight, I should have highlighted this practical benefit more.
Thanks again for calling it out.
All the best, and Merry Christmas.
That is exactly why I like it. Most rifle makers can make a .308 W or a .30-06 Sprg fast and sloppy and get away with it. But the specs for 7 mm PRC are such that you have to build a precision rifle. It has such minimal free bore is one of the main things. And so, even though I have been a 308 guy and have 4 rifles in .308 W, I am truly excited about the 7 PRC and have ordered one and assorted things to go with it.
Where I live in the USA, hunting deer can range from 100 yards in a primeval forest in the eastern part to a desert canyon in the west with stated shots of 200 yards or more. From what I can see, the 7 PRC is able to push a heavy for caliber fast and have less drop than others. So, I have been using 165 in .308 and now I can push 175 grain close to 3 grand and have more than 1,000 foot-pounds for even farther. Granted, I am not going to hunt whitetail deer at 1,000 yards but the mule deer in the western part of my state can be seen at a few hundred yards. Not many trees. And you cannot normally get a mule deer by putting salt on his tail. You have to shoot from a distance with heavy-ish bullet.
Top notch break down.
Not sure where you are getting your data but the 28 has 1moa less drift at 400 than the 7prc. And that's assuming you get anywhere near the published speed for prc. The guns we are building and running Hornady factory ammo in are running 2830 and with handloads trying to get more speed we see ejector marks at 2850.
Hi Jackson,
Thanks for flagging this.
I used muzzle velocity for Hornady Precision Hunter ammunition with their choice of bullet weight for ELD-X bullets. I ran the data using Berger's online calculator.
I'm unsure if it's a cheeky move from Hornady or strict adherence to SAAMI spec, but they have used the 175 grain bullet for the PRC and the 162 grain bullet for the 28 Nosler. That could cause some of the discrepancy you see between my data and your own.
The muzzle velocity you mention is lower than the ones published for the ammo, as you probably know. Are the numbers you share muzzle velocities? with 175 grain ELD-X?
In that case there's a fairly big discrepancy between the factory data and what you experience in practice. Enough to be a significant factor when deciding.
Thanks again for your input.
All the best.
Love your approach to data. Subbed!
28 noslar comes with 1/8 twist in a Browning x bolt and will out perform The PRC only with more recoil !!
Very informative as usual
Thank you sir
Thanks! I'm glad you found the video helpful. All the best!
Would 1/8.44 twist be enough to stabilize the factory 175gr 28 nosler ammo from nosler? The commercial ammo price of 175gr 28 nosler is $100-$120 a box and occasionally a sale for $60 a box. The factory 7mm Eldx-type cartridges are at $60 a box and should be on sales at $40 a box. It would be nice to get the factory savage 110 ultralight at 1/8.44 twist if it will stabilize the 175gr accubond/partition bullet.
Hi there. It depends on what bullet. Stability has to do with length (among other things), not weight, although the two are obviously related. It might stabilize the accubond, but I don't know about the AB LR, which is pretty long.
I recommend you use Berger Bullet's stability calculator to be on the safe side.
All the best.
@@RedKettleEfficientHunting Thanks, yes the accubond is 1.55 which is just above the 1.5 comfortable stability for berger. I am guessing savage makes the 1/8.44 28 nosler barrels for this reason specifically. As long as its not too cold near sea level it stays above the 1.5.
Great, I'm glad you got your data. All the best.
1/9 twist will stabilize 175 eld-x
Great review
Thanks David!
You mention the 300 PRC, I have one and I love it, it’s a performer on all levels but I am building a 7 PRC for small critters like deer and pronghorn.
Thanks Tim! I'm monitoring the component situation where I am, but I can see use cases for both cartridges. Great to hear you like the 300.
Great video
Thanks!
ELDx is shite for terminal performance in the 6.5cm. I'd rather lose a hint of accuracy for ballistic tip.
Hi Adam, thanks for sharing your experience. I don't mean to suggest that the ELD-X is the best bullet for 7mm. I wanted as much of a like-for-like comparison as possible. And show folks the best possible ballistic performance in factory ammo. The ELD-X in the Hornady ammo was a good way of doing that (not the only one).
All the best!
@@RedKettleEfficientHunting they are accurate but I was very disappointed with all of the hype behind them. I think for whitetail I think their SST line is better. Not knocking your video, just my personal experience in the field.
Hi Adam. It's great to hear your experience. The point of this channel is to give hunters food for thought so I appreciate your feedback. I've had great results with SSTs in the past and I'll make a note of your comments. All the best.
The 175 ELDX was effective on the whitetail I took on December 30. It was a poor shot location that was squarely on me. The deer was down right there, but not dead right there. He would have definitely left the area with a Grendel or similar cartridge.
That being said, I have grown to trust expanding coppers over lead core bullets and am working on loads for 160 grain coppers that I will use next year. This is a big change for me as I have been a Ballistic Tip and Accubond disciple for many years. The whitetails I, and my daughter, took with the 6.5 Grendel had consistent entry and exit wound size with good internal damage. No fragmentation. We'll see if they stay together at the higher velocities provided by the PRC.
@@diggernash1 yeah but that's a bigger chunk of lead with more energy. I wasn't a fan. The 143's may be better with the extra powder behind them of the PRC.
What was the 175, a 7 mag?
I will beat all those metrics of PRC with a 7 mag. You know what PRC stands for? Public relations cartridge. You can buy 7 rem mag in a lot of offerings with 8 twist, 8.5 twist and 9 twist. If you extend to the furthest seating depth of the PRC and the 7mm Rem Mag. Rem mag has more powder space and it also has more killing power. Never take 7mm Rem Mag for granted. It is the king of the 7mm bullets and it’s design is way ahead of its time. It actually has a .115 freebore long but not to long and not to short. This tied with a 8.5 twist barrel allows you to shoot light and heavy bullets accurately. PRC cannot do that.
Public Relations Cartridge :-)
Thanks for sharing your experience Spud.
And think you're right that the 7mm Rem Mag is hard to beat for pure availability.
I've missed the 8" twist offerings when researching. The majority I found were 9" and some 8.5". And the Hornady factory ammo I based the test on isn't loaded with the heavier bullet. Hence my conclusions.
I hope it was clear I think this is a close race. And that there isn't such a think as a magic cartridge.
I appreciate your input and will consider it when I pick a 7mm magnum. All the best.
@@RedKettleEfficientHunting thanks and if I was to pick one it would be a fierce, a browning certain models have the twist of 1:8, or the new alpha 1 700 Remington has a 1;8 and 3.924” mag box.
Thanks! Checking out Fierce now. Not familiar with them, but they definitely look great. Thanks for the recommendations.
@@RedKettleEfficientHunting the new fierce they just released specs on would be the one. Lightweight and 1:8.5 twist which I prefer over 1:8. No problem
thanks, I'll check it out. All the best!
Real Gunsmith Randy says it’s not. 🤷♂️
Hi Jim. That's it's not what?
All the best, and Merry Christmas.
He’s an out of touch old Fudd.
Randy is the grouchy old man from Grumpy old men! Lol
Just get a 7mm or 300 Weatherby.
7mm Rem Mag?
I’m starting to consider the 7mm Rem Mag or the 300 WM for pure availability.
7mm Rem Mag?
I’m starting to consider the 7mm Rem Mag or the 300 WM for pure availability.