243 Winchester vs 6.5 Creedmoor
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- čas přidán 30. 08. 2023
- #shooting #hunting #reloading
Coffee & Cartridges 40:
In this podcast episode I pit the 243 Winchester against the 6.5 Creedmoor from Hornady. I look at this from a ballistics and application standpoint.
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The thing about the 243 Winchester is that we know its limits, but the new users of the 6-5 creedmoor think this is an elk rifle which is it is not
I agree, but unfortunately there are quite a few people trying to justify shooting elk with a 223.
@@hopefulballisticsit is like they intentionally want to be under gunned when a $400-500 rifles in an appropriate caliber is a better choice.
@@texpatriot8462 it seems like it
@@texpatriot8462That’s a great point
Hopeful Ballistics said it was interesting that people who like the .243 Winchester don’t like the 6.5 Creedmoor. I own a .243 and appreciate the qualities of both cartridges, but I don’t think it’s odd that some folks like the .243 and despise the 6.5 CM. The creed was overhyped and often touted as suitable replacement for cartridges clearly above its power class. That’s why people hate it. There are a lot of people who seem to believe the 6.5 CM is a cartridge for hunting the largest of game at ranges surpassing the performance parameters of the cartridge. It’s a fabulous target cartridge for use at long range. However, as a hunting cartridge, my opinion is that it performs best on deer sized game inside of 400 yards. Can you kill elk with it? Sure. A lot of elk have been killed with the .243 as well. That fact doesn’t make either optimal for the task.
Thanks
But if you research it, more people lose deers after shooting them and other game with the 6.5 creed more I don't understand why. So when I go on my Moose hunt I will be using the seven millimeter 08
Well said!
I shoot both but I like my 7mm08 the best
One thing people forget about these days when it comes to varmint shooting is Time of Flight. Having a light very fast bullet is more important than high BC. Gophers are small with very quick movements so it is possible to shoot then the critter moves resulting in a miss. This becomes more apparent at 400 -600 yards. Cartridges like the .243 were designed with this goal, not competition. The Creedmore on the other hand is very much designed as a competition cartridge at which is is very good. They both make good deer cartridges.
I agree
Where I think your missing a point is, the 6.5 can handle 140 gr bullets for hunting very nicely. That’s a big difference than a 90 gr from a .243. I would like to have seen you compare the best hunting round from each
That’s actually a good point. But for me to be a little more specific, soft skinned deer sized game not going below preferable 1800 fps -depending on experience and weather conditions.
As my Dad aged, he put away the 30-06 and got a 243 for deer hunting. When I got to be a senior citizen, I did the same, downsizing my cartridge for comfortable recoil. But I chose the 6.5 Creedmoor. Dad did not have that choice back in the day.
I understand that
I'd like to get my Dad a 243 or 6.5 for his birthday this summer but I'm still torn between these two.. he's almost 70, has a farm and doesn't shoot too much or really hunt, but there are deer and coyotes there and we'd probably use it more for target shooting than anything else. It can get pretty windy out there and I think it'd be a good farm rifle for him. He has a 30-06, shotguns and 22's but nothing in the mid caliber category. The traditional part of me leans towards the 243 and I know they're both good, but I just don't know which one would be better for him. Guess we'll have to get them both eventually lol
@@Kyle2827 Perhaps the 6 mm Creedmoor is a best choice. Lower recoil than the 6.5. The velocity of the 243, but with the wind fighting high BC bullets of the Creedmoor is an advantage.
@@williamgunn1076 I appreciate your insight on this, thank you. I'll look into the 6mm Creedmoor
@@Kyle2827 My pleasure.
I own a Savage 10 with a 24in barrel with a 1/7 twist. It's my favorite deer rifle it love's the 103gr Hornady bullets.
Awesome!
@Agueybana55 is your Savage 10 all factory? This is exactly what I'm looking for to shoot long Copper Barnes 95gn LRX: do u know the serial number, the date of manufacture ? I've seen savage's . 243 can range from 1 in 12 to 1/9.25, 1/9, and 1/7 would have put Savage way ahead of it's time considering the 6mm CM; also have not seen a savage .243 in a 24" offering. thanks for Discussion @Hopeful Ballistics
Your no hype approach is very refreshing. I own rifles in both calibers and never knew they were so close in performance when considering bullets traveling at relatively the same distance and with about the same BC. Maybe that's why my .243 rifles seem to kill them just as dead as my 6.5 CM models.
Thank you! Both great cartridges, just maybe not as different as it would first appear.
Agreed
Never used an 243 in my life but recently picked one up. Ive yet to shoot it but im looking forward trying it.
It’s a sweet cartridge.
@@hopefulballistics I hear on the 6.5 Creedmoor factory chamber specs are really kept tight and thus the factory ammo has to be as well resulting in off the shelf guns and ammo grouping very well most of the time,more so than older cartridges with not as tight of tolerances to make sure the ammo will fit in the older guns chambers,what is thoughts on that,I know the two 6.5 Creedmoors I have scoped up and sighted in for friends shot very well with all ammo that they brought for their guns.I am a fan the 243 Winchester as well and have a tikka t3 that is a very good shooter with several factory offerings
You will like it
I have both the .243 and 6.5 and yes I agree with all you have said, I also have a 25-06 I group with them, a great long action low recoil round
Thanks for watching
I really enjoyed and appreciated the video and looking forward to seeing more
@@williambundick349 I appreciate it
Great info and perspective.
I appreciate that!
Good video I own both. You can't go wrong with either one.
Agreed! Thanks
Your Right. I have both. I can't get one to out shot the other 243 and 6.5 Creedmoor are the same. Love both that's my opinion.
Thanks!
I have a 22.250. And a 243 love both. I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor. I was impressed its one hell of a cartridge lam impressed
I appreciate the comment!
The new Weatherby 307 is using 7.5 twist on the 243 and 340 Weatherby. I want to see someone play with that fast twist 340 👍🙏✌️
Interesting, I didn’t know that
Thank you 😊
Thanks for watching!
I have taken game with both. I like them both and everything else that has a primer in it. The 140 class in the cm seems to make exits in deer sized game more often and larger than the 243 from what I’ve seen. The 243 doesn’t seem to be in it’s class with penetration and sectional density from what little hunting I’ve seen. I guess if it’s a well placed shot it really doesn’t matter. Happy hunting 🦌
Thank you for watching and commenting! Happy hunting.
The .270 winchester beats out the 6.5 creedmore a little bit in every aspect !
I'm sticking with the best five ammo to have in my gun case from small to large. First is the .243
Second is the .270
Third is the .308
Fourth is the 30-06
Fifth is the .300 win mag
Every tool in your box does its job well.
I neither love nor hate either cartridge. I do like the larger grain weight of the 6.5 Creedmoor. I have 130 grain terminal ascent, i think thats a sweet spot as a deer round. Over 2900 ft per second, good velocity and energy out to 400 yds. I dont own a 243 as i already had a 25 06 and it is a great round. 120 grain bullets at 3000 ft per second gets the job done. I bought a 25 06 for my wife instead of a 243 because I liked the energy downrange. Now i like it but i could definitely be convinced to own a 243 in a 1&8 twist that shoots a well constructed bullet. 110 grain going 2900 ft a second, lethal and less meat damage.
The 1 in 8 twist 243 is tempting
So........................ I cut my teeth on the .30-06 SPR when I was started in shooting and hunting. Then my grandfather turned me to the 6.5x55 SE. I also have a Tikka T3X Lite SS in .243 Winchester. If Tikka comes out with the same rifle in a 1:8 for the 243 Win, yeah, I'm getting it!!!! Love all them cartridges, except the 6.5 Creedmoor. Good luck and stay safe!!! 😉😉😉
You kind of proved his point with that Creedmoor comment 😂
Thanks for watching!
Lol
@hopefulballistics , checked on Tikka and they are now selling 1:8 twist 243 Win rifles, so................ 😉
@@nicholasbarcomb2324 that’s cool
There area already Tikka T3s with the 1:8 twist on store shelves.
Ok, good to know
+
I have a fair amount of experience with the 243. I’d like to get into the Creedmore. Got any recommendations on rifle manufacture?
I’m fond of the Savage 110 Storm in 6.5 Creedmoor. Tikka, Bergara, and CVA also make a really good rifle.
Great to see a well balanced view i chose 6.5 cr over 243 for red deer and im glad i did . I cant understand why the scorn directed at 6.5 is not also on the 243.
It got overhyped and then the pendulum swings to “under hyped.”
The way I look at it, if you're looking for a classic rifle, 243. If you're looking for the newest with the bells and whistles 6.5/6 CM. Newer cartridges aren't that different, its the match grade tolerance of the chamber that makes factory shoot better without the load development, usually. Now that they're fast twisting classic cartridges it's just more competition for the new kids on the block
Good perspective, thanks
Im ready to buy a 243 W or a 6.5 C my question is : At 400 yards hunting white tail or mule deer which caliber you guys recomand and what weight bulet ?
Thx .
6.5 creed, 140ish grain bonded bullet. Maybe Terminal Ascent or Bondstrike.
@@hopefulballistics I'm riding more and more and I'm coming to the same conclusion...thx 👍
6.5 by a country mile
143 grain ELDX 6.5 creedmoor
Remington offers a 1-8 .243 700 now
Sweet! I didn’t know that
I don't have either one of those.. both are mild shooting cartridges!
A few years ago.. I was diving into a lightweight soft shooting firearm with affordable ammunition.. I narrowed it down to the 243 Winchester.. the 6.5 Creedmoor.. and the 350 Legend!
I would be using the rifle primarily for Whitetail and my grandkids could learn to shoot it as well! I actually chose the 350 Legend and I absolutely love it!
Mind you.. a long shot for me in the mountains of central Pennsylvania is 125 yards.. most deer are within 75 yards. I used it during the 2020 season and bagged a big bodied eight point!
Complete passthrough taking out both lungs and heart!
He did mad dash for thirty yards and tipped over!
My brothers nephew used his 350 Legend and bagged a huge ten point.. his snow plowed thirty yards to his death bed!
So.. pretty good results!
The other thing.. even during the height of the pandemic.. 350 legend was available.. from the outer banks all the way to Minnesota.
Took a few trips and actually.. the 350 was the only ammo on the shelves at most places!
Fast forward to nowadays.. I'm about to purchase another firearm.. it will probably be one of those!
I have other firearms.. my 7mm-08 is my favorite cartridge for whitetails! My 358 Winchester is my dedicated black bear rifle!
However.. I carry whatever I want on any given day.
I'm thankful that we have choices 😊
Awesome, thanks for sharing!
I choose calibers off of accessibility, price point etc. I won’t buy a gun I only use every blue moon. 6.5 can be used from coyote to elk. Even if people don’t like them for elk, I’ve watched them be dropped at over 500 yards by my buddies 8 year old. Is it the first choice? No. But the versatility of the ammo for 6.5 is what makes it a very appealing cartridge.
100%
Federal premium 85 grand hollow points, 3300 ft per second drop deer like turning off a light switch! Shoot flat and very little recoil ,Very accurate as well.
Yep!
I am a big fan of the 243, taking deer and black bear as well as predators and competing in PRS with one. I don't have a 6.5 CM, but do have a 6.5X284 and love it. I also have plenty of the bigger calibers, 25-06, 270, 308,30-06, 7mm RM, 7mm RUM, 300 Win Mag, and others. I have shot more deer with a 308 than anything I have. I find myself shooting a 243 more because it is more fun to shoot, kicks less, very accurate, flat shooting, etc. I know of an Elk guide that the only gun he uses for Elk, is a 243. He likes the 243 because he can see the Elk being hit with the low recoil of the 243. He has shot 25 Bills with 27 shots.
The 243 is a great all around cartridge.
Wow 25 elk with 243, that’s awesome!
What bullet does he use for elk in the 243?
@@nozroc7312 He uses Remington Core Locket 100 grain factory loads. He doesn't reload, but has been using Remington for many years.
I've taken an old bull elk with 6mm/243dia bullet in scar tissue in its spine above the shoulder like and two in a rear quarter. They were encapsulated in a tough whitish grey nasty scar tissue. They were all what I believe Core-Lokt. All of them even the two in the rear quarter had shallow penetration.
This bull also had an broad head and piece of fiber shaft in its spine and two others in high shoulder. Those also had a stub of carbon fiber shaft and they also were covered in tough scar tissue. This elk was packing a lot of hardware but he had a harem of cows around.
I have a Ruger predator in 243. I also own a Ruger Precision in 6mm Creedmore. With hamdloads the preciosion has a 6X24 power scope. The Preditor has a 4X12 scope. Both are Nikon scopes. At 100 yards the accuracy is marginal going to the Precision. I was upset when I bought the Precision that Ruger had dropped the 243. I would like to see a comparison between these two cartridges in same rifles. I don't feel a comparison between a 6.5 and 243 is a fair comparison.
Thanks for the recommendation
I have a Ruger RPR in 243 win
Not pursuing top velocity
115 berger @ 3040
Bout 500 rounds before I had the gun, I've culled about 15 and the RPR has about 1500 rounds
Real nice video. I agree w u. I believe the reason the 243 “hits” above its weight, is due to speed as well as softer bullets.
Once it lose speed, not so dynamic.
It’s the same with the 6.5’s -Reliant on speed.
This statement from me, of course is not from my own personal experience, but Nathan Fosters.
Nathan is not credited for his work.
Good and enjoyable video
Thanks for watching! I appreciate the comment!
How about comparing 243 Win with the 6 Creedmoor? Wouldn't that be a little closer comparison?
It would be a more apples to apples comparison.
@@hopefulballistics I've been seeing some tikka rifles in 243 at, what I would call, ridiculously reasonable prices. I've never shot nor owned anything 6mm but if I did, I think I'd go 6 creedmoor from what I have been seeing and reading. That said, I've also seen some competition rifles in 243 Ackley Improved with modified chambers where bullets are seated further out of the case - basically the PRC/Creedmoor concepts long before Hornady introduced them. I've not done any research on them but given a 243 has more case capacity than the 6.5CM (I think that's what you mentioned), I'd have to really look at that AI version of the 243 since good brass is widely available
New Remington 700 is in 1-8 also
Cool
Great content and I agree. I don't love or hate the creedmore. I've choose to go 7mm08. I'd like to hear you compare the 6.5cm vs 708. I really like the 338 federal but I wouldn't recommend it for avg hunter. You gotta handload
@@rexking3698 I appreciate it, thanks
I shoot 243 but I found those hot 55 gr loads oh so hard on barrel life now I do the 1-8 twist with 100 gr plus but even so I believe you get way longer barrel life the 6.5 . And yes I had a rem now a tikka .
Sweet!
I own and hunt with a 243, but the 6.5 CM matches up more directly with the 7mm08, since both can throw 120 and 140 grain bullets like the 6.5 CM. I just don’t find any need for the 6.5 verses the 3 rounds (243/7mm08/308) that come from this one great case. Good video, now go do the 7mm08 vs the 6.5CM and you will see that the 6.5 is 90% of the 7mm08.
Thanks
What about the 6 creedmore, could have done that comparison!
Yep
6.5 because of all the ammo choices to pick from
6mm creedmoor 95 gr barnes lrx 3200+ fps. Best of both worlds
6 creed is a good cartridge. I wish it was chambered in more rifles.
This is as much a question as it is a comment. Think of the eastern US, where population density is high, and population centers abound. The prey is deer and groundhog. The hunter may shoot a few rounds a year at deer, but may shoot numerous rounds at groundhogs. My guess is the lighter weight 24 caliber bullets are more frangible, less apt to ricochet, and thus safer than the heavier 26 calibers. Yes?
Logical conclusion. I’m not sure about the ricocheting.
If you want 6.5 and handload then there really isn't a reason not to pick a 260/ai or 6.5x55/ai.
In terms of top end the 243 likely out does the 6.5CM. There is an old article on accurate shooter about George Gardner of GA precision shooting 115gr moly dtacs at 3150. At the time, it was tough to beat that in a short action. New bullets may have changed things but probably not. The downside is barrel life of course.
Im pretty sure at some point someone had Ackley improved a 260 Remington and nobody was all that impressed
Interesting
Savage twist 9.25 will shoot up to 105 grain
Ruger RPR will shoot all , i have both
Thanks
Why not compare the 260 rem and 6.5
I wanted to do this comparison. I might do that comparison as another video.
I lean to the creed,dont pay attention to hip I like what I like, the creed was designed around 130 , 140 grain bullets, what really inpress me is the inheriit accurates , I hand load for mine,, I owned 1 243, shot the lite bullets ,but wouldn't shot heavy bullets not like the creed will
Thanks
243 all day long
The 243 is a great deer cal and if they change to a faster twist rate you could use heavier bullets but then you would be in the area of the 264 cal and the Creedmoor is great for mule deer size game and using bullets 130 and under because of the velocity the heavier bullets do not have the velocity for the hunting applications yes high bc but you don't need the high energy to shoot targets and it does no better than the other 6.5s except for it's design it's throated out so you don't crowd the powder space with the longer bullets and the brass is also in this design I have used many calibers the 243, 6.5 and many more but the 6.5 used with up to 130 grain bullets and no heavier unless you plan to shoot your animals at a closer range but that takes away it's advantage but that is only in its design of chamber dimensions the brass is efficient for better burn it is not I don't think an elk cartridge and I have hunted with the Creedmoor and talked to many hunters that hunt with it and the problem I had and others is the sectional density is really high on the 140 grain and heavier bullets and it not that the bullets aren't good its too good so without the energy behind the heavy bullets they don't do enough internal vitals damage compared to the fastest lighter weight bullets and the 260 is alittle harder to find a rifle and that is what I started out to get and ended up with the Creedmoor it is alittle more efficient powder burn rate and the problem I said earlier is why they made the 6.5 PRC/7mm PRC, so with all these cartridges you check the ballistics tables get good energy to the extent of the yardage you hunt so with my Creedmoor 6.5 it is very capable of taking deer sized game to 500yds but not if I can get them at closer ranges and I do not recommend any bullets over the weight of 130 grains for the reason I said earlier and those that do not hand load then stick to the 100 120 to 130 grain weight bullets now the 243 100 grain hunting bullets go hunting if it's deer your after and there is a great 85 grainer for it as well made by Speer.
Aim small good hunting GOD bless.
God bless you as well
Yep Apples to Oranges but match up that 6.5 creedmoor to 270 winchester closer more like apples to apples.
More deers get away from people using 6.5 creed more than any other calibre I Own both I can't figure out why creedmore has such a bad hunting reputation. Because of its reputation i'm afraid to hunt with it
If you pick a good bullet and have good shot placement, the Creed will do great against deer.
How or where is that information found? How credible id it? What are the circumstances?
There is no way a 243 is going to hit as hard or penetrate as deep as a 140 gr bullet in a creedmoor it's not even close
What bullet and bullet weight from 243?
@@hopefulballistics any 243 bullet they don't make them heavy enough to hit as hard as 142 or a 129 in the creedmoor
@@joshclemons9975 your right that they don’t make a 6mm that heavy
@@hopefulballisticssorry didn't mean sound like I was downing the 243 win it's a great cartridge and I own one myself and I use it for varmints and my CM for my daughter to deer hunt with but I personally love the 6.5 PRC for whitetails myself it's about perfect for whitetails in my opinion
80 copper bullet would go as far or farther in a 243. It has the speed to back it up
As a 6.5CM fanboy I can summarize the problem with 243....nothing. I have them both, love them both and neither are 30-06.
Well said!
Why compare so dif calibers. 243 vs 260. 6mm vs 6.5, Bullet weight 100-110 grns vs 145-150. Of course the 6.5 will outperform the 243 on larger game. In Europe the 6.5X55 is good for Moose
@@WillyK51 I believe explained the comparison in the video, thanks for watching
243 and 270 are better than the 6.5
all the macho bs about the 243 being said to be a women and kids or wimp's cartridge total bs from hunters and shooters based on this crap. similar macho bs re the creedmoor by the lobbies