Why Are There No Openly Gay Male Footballers?
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- čas přidán 18. 08. 2021
- Since Justin Fashanu came out being over 30 years ago, not a single male professional footballer has come out whilst playing in either the Football League or the Premier League - and the situation isn't much better elsewhere.
This isn't the case in the women's game, where some of the most talented players and famous faces in the sport came out years ago.
So in this video, HITC Sevens takes a look at why there are still so few - if any - openly gay professional male football players, the general state of homophobia within the game, and who is to blame for LGBT people still not feeling welcome or accepted by the world's most popular sport. - Sport
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Day 19: where would a team of Alfie Potts Harmer lookalikes finish in the premier league?
LOL!
Lmao
😂😂😂
managed by Alfie
Probs bottom with only 2 points.
The fact I hadn’t even heard of the Clough story shows that it’s a huge problem. If he said something as bad as that about the colour of his skin people would still bring it up today regularly talking about him. But no. Something like that is disgusting and a manager I used to like and respect has lost a lot of respect
I think you have to have a little perspective.
It is perhaps hard for younger people to understand the degree to which homosexuality was disapproved of in the UK in the very recent past. In the early 80's, homosexuality was considered abhorrent and disgusting and had been illegal as recently as a decade and a half ago. The standard opinion among more liberal people was that gay people were unlucky, and perhaps a little distasteful, but that they shouldn't be punished for something that wasn't their fault. Approaches that included gay people, such as those pioneered by some far-left councils and particularly Red Ken's GLC, were derided as "loony-left" behaviour, and considered to be evidence that those proposing them could not be taken seriously.
In that context of generalised homophobia it is of no surprise at all that Clough would use homophobic language, almost everybody did, as almost everybody was homophobic. I would include myself in that, and most of the people I knew. Simply put, people's views have changed radically in a very short time.
I was afraid to scroll down the comments, but most I see is supportive and thankfulness, which makes me happy. Great video!
Probably because anything else was deleted. LOL
I don't delete comments, Stephen, not even all of your shite ones. Thanks Thije!
@@HITCSevens suuuuuure, just like you always tell the whole story 🙄🤦♂️
@@HITCSevens I guess I'll just have to take solace in the fact that I'm not deliberately obscuring the crimes of a pedophile in order to try and grant them martyrdom for my agenda like you are. And I think I can live with that honestly. 👍
Just live your life. What you do with your buttocks should be your business only. No real football fan is thinking about sexuality while they are playing the game
You’re a top man Alfie, absolute class.
I don’t know I feel like his views are incredibly westernized. He lives in a country where the Major Corporations and the 2 ruling parties seem to compete on who can be the most LGBT.
He just seems to be lecturing the world with British Imperialism.
@@rejectedyorkie4570 my man what? its not a competition about who can be the most ‘lgbt pro’ as you put it, its just about accepting people for who they are, dunno what ignorant part of the world you’re from to believe this is a westernised view surely everyone has the right to be themselves.
Thanks Joel. My suspicion is that RejectedYorkie didn't actually watch the video, since no one who did could be left with that impression.
@@HITCSevens Had a bit of an internal debate on wether to answer him or not. Made the choice to not waste my breath, if they didnt listen to you reckon they wont listen to me either.
@@rejectedyorkie4570 Imperialism was very much intolerant, it was subjugation of one group of people by another group. Not hating or discriminating against people for who they are - that is the opposite. To equate tolerance with imperialism is just absurd. Either you are confused, or an intolerant person trying to confuse others.
I‘m usually a more silent viewer but I have to say, this is an outstanding video. I could hear how truly you care about these issues being resolved and how disgusted you are by the state of society in 2021. Love your work, keep it up!
Thanks Max, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
@@HITCSevens Alfie,I would love if you made videos on women's football especially the negative attention it gets sometimes
@@lalitthapa101 it gets negative attention because of how poor it is. It is often assumed to be sexist (very rarely is) but when you see the womens national team of USA lose 5-2 to the under 15s of DC United and the Crystal Palace womens team losing 2-1 to a bunch of overweight, old ex footballers it is hard to take it seriously
@@kaihiggins725 It's hard to take a club serious who is 1.5 Billion money in the debts and loses a Champions League quarter finale 8-2.
@@Bjaerke not really considering they have shown quality only a few years ago. Literally not even the same in the slightest. One is shit the other is was simply poorly run for a few years
As a Norwich fan the Justin Fashnu story saddens me. We need to do better.
And Justin Fashanu had once shown such promise as a young striker. So sad his ending.
@Section 28 Your screenname is fucking "Section 28". Absolutely fuck all the way off.
He claimed it was consensual
I wonder why Alfie didn't qualify mentioning Fashanu's death with the assault case.
Didn't think it merited it would be my guess...
Regardless of any stories, the fundamental theme of this video is vital- we should support people who want to come out and stop this from being an issue.
I’ve always been in the so what catergory, as I don’t care who a player chooses to spend their time with outside of the game, wheather that be male or female. But in 2021 the fact that these young men don’t feel they can be true to themselves is a complete and utter failure from top to bottom in the game and one we should all be ashamed about.
Well put!
I hear ya on the level of social (dis)comfort when it comes to gay people in general, not just footballers, but it’s also worth noting that the other side (my side) rarely expresses itself properly on this matter. Namely, I have no problem with gays, I’ve never had the urge to hurt a gay person in any way, however, I never could, nor will I ever be able to feel close with a gay man the way I can with a straight man. For if it were up to the gay man, I wouldn’t exist. In fact, 200,000yrs of humanity wouldn’t exist.
And that’s a self-evident fact I was never able to ignore. If your lifestyle is a direct negation of human reproduction, I’m sorry, bro, we’re never gonna be friends.
@@LazarNevski well i think 1.after 200,000 years evolution would have found a way
2. if we evolved as only one gender we would obviously have a way of reproduction and
3. i dont think that all gay/lesbian/bi/etc people want everybody to be the same sexuality as them as that would be the exact thing that they fight against, forcing someone to be a specific sexuality
@@LazarNevski you obviously do have issues with gay people. Also why would a gay man not want any straight men alive that’s fucking stupid. Where’s the logic
@@LazarNevski Society needs revolutionaries, but it doesn't need EVERYONE to become revolutionaries. HOWEVER, it still needs a decent chunk of 'em.
I, a guy, came out of the closet as gay in my youth amateur team when I was 15 and my team mates were so cool and supportive. It's one of my dearest memories. But I don't know if I would have done it if it potentially threatened a promising career.
Your team mates were raised well 👏
Congratulations for opening up mate and your teammates absolute top notch lads. Good luck on your footballing progress mate
@@chrishorton4929 they were all amazing lads. Had the time of my life with them!
Had actually a couple guys in my college fraternity come out and we all accepted them just as anyone else, and this was 20 years ago. When it all comes down to it, most people are going to accept you for who you are, because honestly, most rational people can put themselves in your position and know they would want to be treated fairly as well. But there will always be random angry and irrational people who will torment anyone who is different, and there's not much you can do but take it in stride and feel good knowing your mates support you. As for it negatively affecting someone in their career, my opinion on that matter is that behind all the smoke and mirrors of "inclusiveness" by all these companies and people in positions of power, many are really not like that and do what they can behind the scenes to exclude anyone who might be different and "rock the boat" so to say. What other explanation could there be, in a world today where most average people are much more accepting of others' differences than ever before.
Nice story but having it happen in the younger age groups support will always be better and easily tolerated that age group having understood the issues of Gays today in society better than doing it around the older age groups like the majority of pro football industry . Good luck to you though !
If this was on Twitter I’m sure you’d see lots of gifs of Vardy destroying the corner flag.
definitely a lot of mbappe crying's too and a lot of didn't ask + ratio
@@dantespina7398 yeah but since this is about gay people you’d get a lot of that
@@dantespina7398 true 😂
@@prometheustv6558 definitely, so much more than usual, it would just be the worst of twitter
@@dantespina7398 Can anyone explain the ratio comments. I do not understand what that means
Nothing but RESPECT to you! This is brave and football, and this channel, will always be better without violent bigots.
How is this brave lol. Supporting lbgt is pretty normal now days. If he did this 40 years ago, that would be brave. Btw, seen plenty of gay people hating straight white males now days lol
Gaay.
@@shikicunt3442 Yes, that is the topic of this video. Good job!
@@HelloThere-uh3ll People who do that are a very small minority of dumb idiots
They just scream the loudest
@@HelloThere-uh3ll Did you watch rhe video?
I'm a 15-year-old youth footballer from Hong Kong, and I’d like to share a story about my own experience playing football whilst being a member of the LGBT community, hopefully to raise some awareness about the discrimination that we, as normal members of society, go through in the footballing world; in times where racism against footballers is publicly criticized, there seems to be no progress whatsoever towards solving the issue of discrimination against sexuality.
So here’s my story. Having been an avid fan of football since childhood, I had always aspired to play the beautiful game at a competitive level; that opportunity arrived in 2020, when I was selected by a side (I’m not going to specify which one for privacy reasons, but it’s a famous one here where I live) in the Hong Kong youth football league to play for them. Prior to this selection, I had been diagnosed with clinical depression and had attempted suicide on multiple occasions - likely repercussions of the unexpected direness of the pandemic. Fortunately, I was able to rediscover my passion for football after joining said team and playing competitively, and my rapid integration into the team significantly alleviated my illness and brought a stop to my self-harming activities. Within the span of a season, I had acquainted myself with my teammates and coaches, as football became the most important and inseparable part of my life; I was also lucky enough to be given the captaincy of the team, which I truly treasured.
Due to the tight-knit nature of the team, us teammates came out for football and socialization in general almost everyday, integrating into my daily routine; that was until the end of last year, when some of my teammates found out about my sexuality. It was then onwards that every one of them started different forms of discrimination towards me. I was instantly ostracized from socialization, as I was no longer allowed to play football and socialize with them in private; during training, I was purposefully ignored and ostracized in a similar fashion, and with all forms of interaction coming to a halt, I no longer felt like part of the team - in fact, I no longer wanted to play, watch or even hear about football, due to the incredible amount of trauma I feel everytime football was being mentioned.
All of the above were the most sudden and forceful impacts that a young and aspiring footballer, previously willing to devote their life towards the game and being welcomed in a core part of a top-level team, could possibly endure; it should come as no surprise then, that such a one-eighty would leave long-lasting damage towards the perception of football per se. As the current season came to a halt due to the situation of the pandemic here in Hong Kong, I could no longer bear the thought that everyone else was training in private without me being welcome, and with the lost form and lost passion for football amassing, I decided to quit football for good. So there goes another potentially promising career, and perhaps another potentially promising life, given the already existing severity of my clinical depression and suicidal sentiments.
I’m sure that I’m not the only one out there in the footballing world that has suffered similar experiences and trauma, due to our sexuality which we have no control over - no different to our race. The footballing community is simply too hostile for members of the LGBT community to participate in the beautiful game without experiencing these painful repercussions. When a player is racially abused on social media, all prominent pages are quick to come to criticize the discriminators, which is why awareness and progress towards this issue is being made; however, I have never seen the same occur on these pages, when anti-LGBT remarks flood the comment sections whenever any awareness is trying to be raised - be it Germany’s decision to display the pride color on the surface of the Allianz Arena the previous Euro campaign (which UEFA banned!) or Josh Cavallo, who had become the first professional player to come out of the closet just last year. The suicide of former England international Justin Fashanu and the decision for former Botafogo player Douglas Braga to quit football at the age of 21, both members of the LGBT community, just further proves the point that it is simply not possible to be gay and play football at the same time. And would they be to any extent wrong, when we look at the aforementioned discrimination that is still as rampant in 2022?
I’m by no means as experienced about how the world and how society functions as these aforementioned individuals; I’m still 15, after all. But does any teenager deserve this kind of discrimination and abuse, so much as to being forced to quit football at such a ridiculously young age? As we strive together to solve the problem of racism in football, it’s sadly too often overlooked how hostile the public view in the footballing world is towards LGBT, an issue that is far more enrooted in the moral values of the footballing world but somehow with far less action having been taken. I write to you today in hopes of letting the football community know, no matter how negligibly, what we - as members of the footballing world, no different from the people reading this right now - are going through, and how desperately so many people are waiting for any speck of action to be taken, just to once again enjoy the beautiful game without knowing that their identity simply will not allow them in this all-encompassing community.
I sincerely hope that you will read this and spare a thought for us people out there in the football community; as such, I implore that you share this on social media, in one way or another, for the world to see. I, as is the case of many many more people out there, want to again set foot on the grass pitches that we all long for - but know that we simply do not have a place in.
Sincerely,
Just another one of the many football-crazed boys in this community
Hi. I know I probably answer a little late to your message but I just wanted to give you all my support and to give you all my respect for your bravery. I hope you’ll manage to find a safe place to live both your sexuality and your passion in peace.
As a bisexual woman, I know how hard it can be to find a confortable environment in our socities but I also know that having support, even from a stranger, can be a relief.
I hope that mentality will evolve in order to make you feel safe.
Remember that you are not alone and that you can always find someone to get help and support.
I am here if you want someone to talk to and I give you all my support to overcome those events.
J.
I hope you get on fifa
Take care. There are people out there who care about you and want you to be happy; me being one of them.
too long couldn't care less
When I was a kid there was a brazilian star that was bi
His name was richarlysson
He was an agressive def midfielder famous for being tough and getting booked constantly
He completed club football in south america, winning the club world cup, libertadores, 4 league titles and everything else here being awarded the silver ball as the second best player on the brazileirao and geting some internacional caps
He never came out bi while playing but everybody knew and everybody hated him for it
He was the butt of the joke in brazil for decades, everywhere he went he would hear homofobic offenses, after all, we are the reason players can pick any shirt number in south american competitions since no player would wear the number 24 (the gay number)
We are the number 1 in lgbt people being killed for being gay, I saw gay kids getting beaten when trying to play football with the other kids since gays should play volei
And lesbian woman play football
Well
Thank you richarlysson, from a Bi Def Mid that watched you being world class while hearing tens of thousands screaming bich* e Viad* every time you touch the ball and decided you were the kind of warrior I would like to be
Being Bisexual and a huge fan of this channel, I can not express enough how important and amazing this video is, another masterclass by Alfie, thank you!
Much love from another football fan from Argentina to you.
Same! I always wish that I wouldve continued playing the sport so I could be openly bi, but the courage and skill to do so would probably be too much anyway.
I'm an Arsenal fan. It makes me proud to see the Gay Gooners banner being rolled out every home game. We are one family.
Just be you, be happy and know you have the support you need
Im bisexual and I have received so much hate from my own teams fans, and other fans. I was kicked out of my old club, and I’ve even been beat up during a match. Maybe it’s just me, or where I live. For me all I received is hate from the football community
Hitc sevens is hands down the best football channel on CZcams
It’s on par with james Lawrence Alcott
Why not hands Up?
@@aren2naga92 it's just a phrase mate.
I still find it perplexing that people care so deeply about other people's love lives
I find it perplexing that people care so deeply about how other people care about their love lives
Glad you wrote this comment and didn’t watch the video. Dafty
@@glennb6020 me?
@@hadriancaesar2686 I'm going to care if people want to take my basic human right to love who I want away
@@jacklippy who else, it’s clear by your comment you either didn’t watch it or just didn’t comprehend it
Collin Martin came out as an active player in MLS and is still playing in USL
Robbie Rogers came out when he was with the Galaxy also
@@matthewsmith8727 saying someone being true to themselves is a publicity stunt shows you are problem.
@@matthewsmith8727 it's not the team that's the problem you helmet, it's the fans
@@matthewsmith8727 you think American football fans are more bigoted than British? come on son
@@matthewsmith8727 How do you know he cried ‘crocodile tears’? Is that just your assumption? Do you believe that the fact Rogers had his club’s support means he can’t be worried or scared, or feel any kind of potentially overwhelming emotion when finally going public with something that he kept a secret from almost everyone? He’ll likely have faced discrimination and hassle before (and after) he ‘came out’, and he’ll definitely have seen other gay men (and women) being mocked and attacked in public his whole life. Are you pissed off with Rogers because he didn’t fit the Matthew Smith view of how a gay person should act in public, or how easily they should be able to control their emotions in times of extremis, etc? Really, what’s your issue here? Put aside assumptions or your expectations - or if you can’t, question those assumptions and expectations. Do they hold up?
What do you mean, anyway, when you say ‘the club supported him’? There could easily still be people at the club who had a problem with Rogers’ sexuality. There could have been teammates who had a problem with him. Maybe they kept it to themselves if so, or it didn’t become public. Who knows? And it ‘s ridiculous to say ‘the fans supported him’ because there’s no way in hell that some of the fans weren’t either casual or entrenched homophobes. There’s no way Rogers didn’t end up being mocked or jeered by random shitheads in his ordinary life after he came out.
Insisting what he did was all a publicity stunt and that his emotions were all a sham isn’t helping anything.
PS. I don’t know how Rogers measured the homophobia of US v England fans, and it’s totally possible he’s wrong about that, but I wouldn’t say it’s obvious and clear that he’s wrong. What makes you think that he’s wrong? Maybe he’s just basing it on his actual experience of homophobic chanting and attitudes in English crowds and US ones, and he’s found there’s less chanting, less mocking and hate, in the US stadiums? If that *is* the case (hypothetically), what would you feel? Would you still think Rogers is worthy of your scorn for saying it?
Utterly marvellous video.
And a quick scroll through the comments section shows why videos like this are so badly needed.
Your content just gets better and better, mate. It’s one of the best channels on CZcams.
This and football iconic are the best channels on youtube
"...And a quick scroll through the comments section shows why videos like this are so badly needed....".
In your ideal world then, we must all have the same Hive Mind - we must all be assimilated into the "gay is good" Borg Collective ? I'm telling you that I am a free thinking independent person with my own outlook. You will never succeed in changing me or my God given right to freedom of expression. Humans are not meant to play in sewage pipes.
@@gribwitch
Not really "gay is good", no, rather, to consider gays in the same spot as the average unmarried womanizer.
They are the same from a Biblical moral sense, aren't they?
@@Dexuz Anything that goes against what God teaches is wrong. So generally speaking all sins are wrong, yes.
But what the gay activist groups are doing around the world is trying to make the straight majority think that THEIR particular sin is okay, and not just to be okay, but to be approved of and CELEBRATED by us. And if we don't, they can and do use the law to make us. That will not happen with me !
@@gribwitch
Exactly which laws are being used against you?
Not full into America's politics, but I remember a case of a bakery refusing to bake a cake for a couple's gay marriage, and the baker won the case based on his freedom of religion.
The abuse of Billy Gilmour made me, as a Liverpool fan (whose oldest son is gay), want to cry. The response from the club and the majority of fans online was heartening, but the fact that it happened at all speaks volumes about the reason that no current senior male footballer has yet come out.
Wait Billy gilmour has a son? He is really young though
@@debayanbhunia7084 I think that he's saying his son is gay, not Billy Gilmours
@@debayanbhunia7084 he’s clearly talking about his old son, if gilmour did have a son there’d be no way that they’d be old enough to know their sexuality
@@debayanbhunia7084 no no HIS son not Billy’s
I mean my own son, who is older than Gilmour (which makes me feel ancient and decrepit).
i wished for someone to release such a video forever, and there couldn't have been a better person to do so. it takes courage to do this knowing how this topic goes down in the football community.
About 6 months ago, there was a suggestion in my youtube about a video on the some of the best 7 players in football, by HITC sevens. I thought I'd just give it a try and the rambling took me to the end of the video. Since then, I have regularly come to see your videos, but never thought about subscribing (as generally I don't subscribe, unless you are a friend and need something to keep you motivated). Then, slowly I started looking for your documentaries, especially for some plain facts that you put out there. But, this is the video, where you have got yourself a subscriber... Just a couple of words for you, Absolutely Brilliant. More power to you...
Cheers MP, happy to have you on board & I appreciate the support!
Nicely put.
@@HITCSevens oh my freak! I got a reply from Alfie 😱😱😱
@@needfoolthings thank you
Hopefully once one player decides it’s right for them to openly come out we’ll see a breaking of the dam effect and more will follow. The only worry would be if there’s substantial push back against the first player others decide not to follow, but we can only hope for the best outcome
I'm hoping we're about to see that in American Football with Carl Nassib coming out publicly as gay this past offseason. He's a solid rotation player who just signed a nice-sized contract (I believe ~$25M over 3 years) so hopefully he'll have a solid season and it won't be a point that people use against him. And then hopefully more players would be willing to come out. I mean, there's 1700 players in the NFL, it's almost impossible for only ONE to be gay.
@@JimTheFly why is it impossible for it to be only one gay player.
@@betootaadvocate1966 Just probability, as least in the NFL. At 1700 players, for just one to be gay would mean 0.0588% of players. A Gallup poll in 2017 showed that 3.9% of men identified as LGBT in the US. That would equate to approximately 66 out of 1700 men. Even if something like football might lend itself to a lesser percentage of gay or bisexual men, that huge of a difference is highly unlikely.
Please notice that I did not say it's completely impossible, just almost impossible.
@@betootaadvocate1966 statistically impossible
@WE’RE WATCHING huh?
really big up to you Alfie. Knew that this was a massive problem but had never heard abut the Fashanu story. It is just shocking. Please carry on doing these kind of videos i presume that many people will find this eye opening
I play for an LGBT friendly football team in Exeter. I remember we had an article about us on BBC Sport and some of the comments were disgusting. Ranging from "It's not a big deal, why are they making it a big deal?" To "These f**** should be killed!" It was certainly a lesson in how varied homophobia can be. It's nice to see essays from people like you addressing the reasons why football still has this problem and how it can go forward. Thanks Alfie, you're a top bloke!
How is saying "Its not a big deal" homophobia. I'm not trying to be offensive, but seriously it shouldn't be that big of a deal and it shouldn't hurt to know that other people don't see it as a big deal. Is it not what LGBT rights are about, so that any sexuality should be treated equally and normally so it isn't a "big deal". Obviously the other comment is homophobic but I wouldn't say the first one is.
@@bhfilmmaking if me disclosing my sexuality is grounds for being killed in some countries, I'd say it's a pretty big deal.
If the only time sexuality comes up in football is to say there are no gay players, when insults are thrown by fans or when countries hosting sporting events will literally kill you, I think that presenting a positive message of the LGBT community within the sport is bloody important. Sometimes part of that is disclosing your sexuality, but it has to be a big deal today so it isn't an issue tomorrow.
Alfie does a very good job of addressing this in the video.
@@bhfilmmaking At the very least, "it's not a big deal" is a completely ignorant comment. Of course it's a big deal, after watching the video - and through looking at comments on any LGBTQ friendly football post - you can quite clearly see there are plenty of people in opposition to such a team. It's a big deal because it operates despite constant homophobic abuse. You're right to say "it shouldn't be a big deal" but that's the end goal. It IS a big deal because of the society and world we live in.
@@bhfilmmaking while I agree it isn't rampantly homophobic, it is simply not helpful with regards to someone coming out. You see those comments side by side with those that are openly homophobic. It's a massive eye roll for gay people because the person saying "it's not a big deal" clearly hasn't looked at the other comments on the post where evidently, it is a big deal for a lot of people.
@@bhfilmmaking But when the range goes from ignorancy to death threaths that is a problem. If they would have gotten overwhelming support "not a big deal" would not be a problem because it would be seen as accepted. The problem is that many didn't accept it and "not a big deal" has a completely different context even if the people that wrote it aren't homophobes themselves. They still downplay it propably mostly of a lack of knowledge on the topic. Those commenters are not bad people but in such a context I think people can see why this is a problem.
It’s a basic human right and in no way political, glad you made this video Alfie.
It’s important to speak up and call out the racists and homophobes. We need to make football a safer space for the LGBT community.
Facts football is for everyone man
Great comment!
100%
I think theyre just arent any rather then they just dont want to
Avoiding persecution by government and laws for your sexuality, yes, is a human right in a civilized society. Avoiding ridicule or torment by individuals is not. I say this not as someone whom approves of ridiculing or tormenting anyone for being different, but as a realist. People all over the world are tormented daily for being too fat, too skinny, too tall, too short, too stupid, too ugly, nerdy, red haired, pale skinned, bespectacled, or just plain different from the group. It doesn't make it right but is a fact and just because somebody's sexual interests might make them different from the majority, shouldn't grant them immunity from the same nonsense that nasty people dole out to just about everyone everywhere, just because there are activists pushing an agenda. The world is full of jerks and nonces, and that's just a fact of life. So no, a government should no more prohibit homosexuality any more than it should prohibit being overweight or too short in stature. But what some jerk yells at a gay person at a football match should be acted on no more harshly than what some jerk yells at a fat person. No single group should receive special treatment.
I'm a lesbian who is into football (both the men's and women's game) so thank you very much for this video - all your videos are really informative and well-researched but I enjoyed this one especially. :))
Hmmm what a lovely HITC Sevens video, I'm sure there will be no hateful comments. Anyways great work as always, absolute class from the people's channel.
The worst thing that gets me about these "fans" is you want your team to win, so technically that player isn't *100%* if they have to hide their true selves.
So you're only hurting yourself 🙄
Never heard this perspective before and I wish I had sooner. Fans of clubs should do all they can to ensure that their club can perform at the best of its abilities. If that means singing until our throats are dry, so be it. It that means putting in a few extra quid when we can afford to, so be it (more so at more amateur levels). If that means respecting your team as footballers fighting for the badge you love, so be it!
It's a toxic level of professionalism which might explain the whole thing as you either have to keep it hidden or it's an open secret in the locker room but it's a distraction to go public.
I am really thankful that you have made this video, Alfie. I am straight and I feel sorry for the people in the LGBT communiteit who cannot enjoy the beautiful game just because of the amount of hate towards them. Let's hope everything becomes better for them and I just want to wish any gay gay footballer a big hug and strength in these times.
Love the game. Hate the fans. I've felt this way about football my whole life. Football fans suck.
I appreciate your comment, I which more straight people (and gay people in denial) where like you, unlike other people saying things like "So what if they come out", it shows that you're aware of the homophobia in football culture and you're willing to take a step in changing that.
Bit of a random one but saw your dad at Hull City last night didn't think he'd appreciate me going up to him and saying your HITC 7s dad though
lol
I have a feeling players might "come out" or just be open with their sexuality after the Qatar World Cup.
This video was excellent and so informative! I’m so glad you made it and that I was able to watch. Keep doing what you’re doing, it’s so important.
When I was at school, a friend said that a Portsmouth (my team) player was gay - there had been chants about him in some premier League stands.
I argued he wasn't as he was married to which he said 'Do you have a problem with him being gay?'
What I had a problem with was homophobic abuse being directed at anyone, whether he was gay or not.
Nearly 20 years later, homophobic chants are still present in Premier League stands.
Matt Taylor You’re talking about bro
I really am not looking forward to these comments. But good video Alfie, talked about a very nuanced topic well. I am really not sure how it will play out in 10 or 20 years.
To be honest I think there is hardly any gay footballers. People say something like 10% of people are LTBQG, but I'm guessing this don't apply to footballers, most of them are rich and e.g. most premier League footballers come from foreign countries with different backgrounds were they aren't exposed to this stuff
@@adam6543 yeah that is true, firstly is how much lgbt people really want to play football im not sure, i assume thats because they have grown up being told its not for them. or they just genuinely dont have an interest in it, is sport inherently a more hetero thing im not sure. and yeah most people from top 5 leagues in europe arent from western countries where it is legalised and accepted. i assume the % of footballers who are gay would be very low, thus so little to come out, but it still exists
@@adam6543 "exposed to this stuff" mate I don't think that the media or some outside exposure of gay people and LGBT culture turns people gay
@@adam6543 don't be this guy... Educate yourself!
Considering how difficult it is even to be a black football player online, being a gay footballer is even scarier as you will be unable to play in certain places like the Qatar world cup.
The gay footballer with ambition does not come out because they know being who they are is something that will unfortunately hinder their career.
In all islamic countries.. they cant play there
@@russellliban76 yeah u get jailed or get the death sentence if u are gay in islamic countries
Based Qatar
@@arjunghanekar6140 except Malaysia.. i lived there and the LGBT community would be guided to the right path..
@@russellliban76 yes. I am Malaysian. Many LGBT became normal again through counselling and guidance.
I always enjoy your videos so much. I have to thank you for discussing women’s football and taking it seriously.
Issues like this make me proud to be a Brighton fan, I've been to every home game since 2012 and never heard a homophobic or racist chant from our fans, football should be for everyone, no matter their race, gender or sexuality.
very progressive down there is Brighton, they have a Green MP
Pretty hard to be homophobic when you live in ''the gay capitol of the world'', but yeah, proud to a Brighton fan.
Brighton is awesome
Same, I’m very proud of this city
@@YourLifeMustRock and the most vegans in the uk.
Just saw the interview with Klopp who's criticised the fans for chanting rent boys at the Norwich game. As a long term Liverpool fan I'm embarrassed to the core that rants are still abusive rather than funny in nature in 2021.
As a fellow Liverpool and part of the LGBT+ community, I was disgusted and ashamed of calling myself a Liverpool fan. It’s absolutely unacceptable for a fellow human to act in any way like this (unless it’s towards a United fan)
Aren’t chants supposed to be offensive? The whole point of chanting is to rile up your team and unsettle the other team.
@@tom13king Calling the other team gay often does not rile the other team up
People are so sensitive these days, the Chelsea rent boy chant has been going on for decades and won't change anytime soon. Billy gilmore was subject to these chants because he's a Chelsea loanee. Nothing more nothing less, if you can't handle people being mean, don't go outside.
What does rent boy even mean?
Collin Martin came out in 2018 when he was playing for Minnesota United in the MLS. It was awesome
Hi Alfie! Openly gay football-fan here!
I've been watching your videos for quite some time, and overtime I've grown to really like your videos. From the top 7-lists to all the crazy stories about corrupt leagues or hooligan-clubs, your channel just gets more and more interesting!
But this video was something truly special. Last week a football-club from my home city of Gothenburg, one of the biggest and most traditional clubs in Sweden, made a LGBT-manifestation before a match. Being that this is the club I root for here in Sweden (I also root for Leeds United in England!) it made me happy and more proud of the club!
However... everybody else was more "so what", and not for the right reasons so to say.
Thats why I really liked seeing you make a video on this subject, and you made it GREAT!!
Well-researched, very informative, and I can hear that you mean every word you say!
You've gained a new subscriber in me. Not only are you by far the best football-channel on CZcams, but one of the best CZcams-channels in general! Keep up the good work Alfie!
Greetings from Sweden!!
Much love my guy. (no reason. Just wanna spread some positivity ;) )
You're a real one Alfie and I'd love if there could be podcast versions or podcasts with different topics entirely. That would be so nice.
It's sad watching the brief section on Jordan Henderson and his messages of support for the LGBT+ community. His move to Saudi doesn't sit alongside those actions. It may not be surprising, but it's still extremely disappointing.
Alfie. Thank you for making this. Im a Trans woman who is Pan-sexual and a life long football fan... There was time when due to being trans and my sexuality I stepped back form Football. However In recent years partly because I love the sport and seeing little changes like the increase in popularity of the woman's game (And how accepted sexuality is there) and the black lives matter movement in the men's game I’ve became more interested in it and following it more. I've even found a team locally that are happy for me to play in the Woman's team. Its thorough well written and well-structured videos such as this and positive discourse that we can achieve or at the very least makes steps towards the game being "for everyone" as it claims to be now. Once again many thanks.
im also a trans girl who loves football!! there are far more of us than i think anyone knows, but we're far, far too scared to watch football in public given the culture of supporters. hopefully things can change within our lifetimes. love you theia 💕
Tf does that even mean?? You're either a man or woman
@@thomaskendell8146 I'm afraid science would disagree with you
@@toritwopointoh "...there are far more of us than i think anyone knows...".
Ha-ha. Yeah you keep fooling yourself in thinking that. Trans people are a tiny percentage of an already tiny minority of the non heterosexual population. Sorry, but that's the statistical facts.
Best thing for you to do is to resolve your sexual identity disorder that is officially called "gender dysphoria". You were not born in the wrong body. Your mind is out of sync with your birth gender.
Don't try to change the views of 99% of the community. Fix yourself by aligning your mind with your body. You don't do that with hormones and surgery. Because it is impossible to change your gender..
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO ALFIE! I'm going to be disappointed in humanity if I see some hate comments here or calling basic human rights "Politics". People shouldn't care about other people's sexuality.
You haven't seen football discourse in twitter & IG then💀
I've seen people saying anti racism and pro pride is "political"
Full respect for you! Top class video and something that needs to be said! Meant a lot to me and to hear your true passion about this subject was so refreshing to hear
I really hope that we will reach a point in the near future where a footballer doesn't get judged for who they love.
To be honest I think there is hardly any gay footballers. People say something like 10% of people are LTBQG, but I'm guessing this don't apply to footballers, most of them are rich and e.g. most premier League footballers come from foreign countries with different backgrounds were they aren't exposed to this stuff
@@adam6543 that's a good point, however you can't truly know unless people come out
@@adam6543 You don't become gay because of your background or because you were "exposed to this stuff". You are born gay you don't become gay someday. Your background or culture only has an impact on how openly gay you can be without beeing discriminated or even put in jail.
So what if there aren’t any openly gay people in football, it doesn’t matter, how is it homophobic like
Bruh shut up
I honestly think the problem is that there would be the 'first gay footballer' and that one person would have so much attention on them that it would all be too much. This issue has been politicised so much by both sides of the spectrum that a player could never just be gay they'd be THE gay and that would be all that defined them, the same way certain parts of the media talked about the black players in the England squad. Once that person is 'the gay footballer' everything that happens regarding them is politicised, when they're not selected the manager is called homophobic, if they're transfer listed there's a massive debate about why or who will accept them, even though they'd likely be treated no different from anyone else by the clubs involved. The whole thing sounds like hell to me and from my experience most footballers just want to play football, which would be almost impossible with that shit storm flying around them all the time.
Alfie you really smashed it with this one
Spectacular video! These are types of videos that make me love this channel. If we love football as much as we say we do then it would behoove us to make it a more welcoming sport for all so that they in turn can find joy and come to love the sport as well.
its true i think, on instagram anti racist football posts will be flooded with people saying "say no to racism", but football posts about lgbtq issues will be flooded with homophobia in the comments. I dont get it
Anton Hysen, son of swedish legendary footballer Glenn Hysen (PSV, Fiorentina and Liverpool), made a big splash by coming out very early in his career. He does not play on a very high level (mostly moving in the swedish third and fourth tier in his career so far), but the story got national coverage here in sweden due to his father's fame and his older brother being one of the best known players in our national top tier.
And so are you saying that him being homosexual prevented him from having a similar career like his brother, or is that not at all what you were saying and his coming out was actually applauded?
@@dvdv8197 i think he probably highlighted the low level he plays at because that's still probably the highest level of football with an openly gay player at this stage. That, in addition to his father and brother being household names, is probably a factor in why his story received lots of coverage. Just how I interpreted it anyway.
@@dvdv8197 I think his ceiling as a player was probably 3/4 tier of Swedish football, and that, similar to retired players, it was 'easier' for him to come out than if he was still playing, or playing at a higher level.
@@dvdv8197 hard to say, he played in the academy of a team in the highest tier of swedish football but never broke through to the first team. After coming out he has changed his name and has a very frosty relationship with his father, so something happened, although I can't speculate to what extent it's connected to his sexuality. It's also unclear to what extent coming out impacted his football career.
Thank you Alfie for shedding light on this issue! ❤️
Top notch video Alfie, this subject shouldnt have to be but sadly is a sensitive issue and you tackled it brilliantly.
Idea for a 7s list, players who have left "big" clubs for "smaller" ones and enjoyed more success as in trophies or higher league position.
I'd never before heard of Justin Fashanu before but that story was absolutely heartbreaking and is a testament to the problems in the game that we still have to this day. Rest in peace Justin ♥️
@@grievuspwn4g3 Yeah was horrific to his own flesh and blood to save face. I never liked him since.
"I'd never heard of Justin Fashanu".... I wanna guess you're a white male in his late teens?
Sorry if I'm wrong, please correct me.l if so.
@@alexa5675 does it really matter? their age or the colour of their skin? Sounds very rude and prejudice.
@@JohnSmith-rw2yn It's a question 🙄
@@JohnSmith-rw2yn AND if you open your eyes I did say sorry IF incorrect.
I’m an openly gay referee in my local association, and it honestly shocks me how much players say homophobic stuff in game, I’ve had to send players off for it before - and they look at me like I’ve just spoke a different language.
We’re doing the right things but we’re so far away from perfect still.
respect mate i wouldnt want to referee at the best of times, hope this never pushes you out of the beautiful game
🤣
You sent people off for 'saying mean things' aww diddums 🤣
@@thomaskendell8146 sending someone off for hurling abuse and slurs at you is completely reasonable. Sort yourself out
@@thomaskendell8146you’re the exact problem this video details, not that it seems you actually listened to any of it saying shit like this
This really was an excellent upload, Alfie.
Always enjoyed your channel and now I have a tremendous amount of respect for you as a person. Great video
Listening to the intro, I think it would have a huge influence on a young boy (or girl) struggling with their sexuality if they saw their favourite footballer come out as being gay or bisexual.
They would not only be an inspiration for them but also be a major motivation for those young boys (or girls) if they decided to become a footballer
Lmfao
@@pigslayer703 ?
This was the reason Carl Nassib over in the NFL came out this past year. He wanted to try and help motivate the youth players who were in the closet by letting them know that "Hey, there ARE gay players at the highest level, and at all levels. You're not alone."
@@moritz-4742 What? Beyond retarded coddling from the op
I thoroughly enjoy your more simple ‘top 7’ lists, as well as the deep-dives, but this video stands out as one of your best in a while. Great job!
Great video. Very respectful and hopefully gets people thinking. Well done.
Really loved this video. I'd never heard Justin Fashanu's tragic story before. So fucking sad. I've just bought the Norwich City 1978 Admiral Retro jersey because of this video and will wear it with Pride. (Liverpool fan) Thanks for making this xx
This video meant a lot to me, thanks for making this.
This is a great video, Alfie. I hadn't heard about Justin Fasanu before and his story was a gut punch. I buried my face in my hands after hearing Clough's comments, absolutely disgusting. There's a lot of work to do regarding homophobia and racism in football and, of course, a lot of it has to do with society. Progress is being made, but we're nowhere near "ideal". Great video as always!
And how his brother reacted was awful. One day we can hope that attitudes change
There’s a show on Netflix about Justin and his journey after being open about his sexuality. It’s a very sad but good watch.
I wasn't aware of him either. Disgusting behaviour from his brother!
@@tomsheppard378 His brother is a dead set sociopath as well as a homophobe. Saw him in a doco about the crazy gang and i couldn't believe someone could be so horrible, and that didn't even have anything to do with his brother.
@@MetalRocksMe. what is that show called?
I very rarely comment on videos but this was excellent, really well spoken!
Hey Alfie I recommended a documentary about gay footballers not long ago in one of your other videos and specifically pointing about Justin Fashanu and I gotta say I'm really glad that you did this video and the passion you put in it. You're a great and proper lad.
There are a few, but most of them are not on the Europan radar. Some of them come out after retiring, like Thomas Hitzlsperger, but most of them are just afraid. You would be too if you would constantly have to be worried about getting beaten up or even worse.
footballers have more than enought security to not get 'beat up'. its the abuse from the stands they need to worry about
I didn't know Tom H was gay (or bisexual) ! Well, straight as I am, more power to him. I always liked Tom as a player, and I respect him more as man now.
Fantastic job Alfie, I'm happy that you have shone some light on the issue. 👏🏽
What a Great Video! There are HUGE issues in football so thank you for talking about them!
I'm glad you showed pics of Robbie Rogers because his was what cought my attention to this issue. I would have liked for you to touch on his situation a bit but I completely understand
As a member of the LGBTQ+ community, thank you so much for making this video. The culture around non-straightness in football is incredibly toxic and sadly it doesn’t seem like it’s changing soon. FIFA and UEFA clearly don’t care, especially with the WC being in Qatar.
🤣
@@thomaskendell8146 r u going to reply to every comment of people being gay. it feels awfully like ur trying to hide ur own sexuality, many homophobic people are only like it because they’re worried about being gay themselves.
@@ijmctfc6507 cry
Qatar had every right to preserve its culture from LGBT propaganda that aims to undermine the moral values of its citizens. They should not be forced to display rainbow flags and banners e.t.c.
How about respecting other countries sovereign rights ? They don't share the toxic cultural changes of the West and thus they have sensibly rejected it. We in the West should have done so too. But we capitulated to dysfunctional decadence.
Hey Alfie, been a big fan for a while now and have loved the content. This video is by far the best you've ever made, as a bi-sexual football fan myself I quite often find myself being the sole voice shouting at the ridiculous things you mention such as Qatar and Russia being allowed to host the World Cup and everyone just thinking that it doesn't really matter, thank you for illustrating better than I ever could how impactful these things are and I will be using this video to direct people in the future. Absolute legend!
This is so good to see but as someone who has worked in football it makes me sad given the struggles I have seen a few players/friends go through as they've started their careers out.. And part of me wonders if they would be at the level they were at now if they had disclosed it. I myself didn't disclose it while I was working out of fear of being treated differently. I think that if I were to put it simply.. There is this feeling of the negatives outweighing the positives and the pressure that comes with it as well. It may or may not be a correct feeling, but it's something that can be a real hurdle when considering saying something.
Personally in my part of the world, I've seen a lot of change, but there is still a lot that needs to be done.
Love your stuff mate. Keep up the excellent work.
As an openly bisexual man, I’ve never “came out” to anyone really. I don’t think we have to.
Absolutely.
But if you want to come out, that's perfectly okay as well.
Like alfie said, in a perfect world it wouldnt be needed for anyone to "come out" but in the real world that's just not the case unfortunately
I think you just did though, no? I for one couldn't care less, have a great life however you want to live it and that goes for everyone !! Cheers!!
@@MikoDarkblade people like you are what we need more of
Hey thanks for doing this video Alfie, means a lot to me and doubtlessly other LGBT+ fans of yours
This is so cool. Love love love this channel you do such a good job of tackling these issues in such an earnest manor. This is a first time comment for me on this channel
Edit: I wish you in the comments all the best. It's so hard and heartbraking reading all of these and shows why this video is very much needed
great video alf! video suggestion thooooo seven notorious transfer hijacks?
This is a whole reason I’m nervous going to football matches. During these times I want to go, I have to be someone else as Ik how hated lgbtq people are in football, players or fans. Back last year I saw a video with Tom Allen and mcadam with the pride of irons (West Ham’s lgbtq supporters group) and it opened my eyes how there can be a family in football there for you
People like this only see gay people as politics and how dare politics come into play in their leisure time, haven't gay people invaded enough in comics and television? /s
Look at toxic social media communities, they would get abused like hell
@@sharxzy8582 Vardy isn't homophobic, but social media and trolls with no life are
I doubt Vardy would have broken the flag had it not been Sheffield United or a last-minute goal
What a brilliant video mate - you are clearly a really deeply principled person, and I hope you didn't lose too many subscribers as a result of posting it.
You're spot on in what you say about gay people being driven from the game at a young age - I used to love playing football as a kid, but after being outed against my will at high school, I started to have the sh1t kicked out of me during games as well as being verbally bullied by my peers in the changing rooms. I never stopped watching the game, but I had to give up actually playing it for my own sanity (I channelled all of my efforts into playing Championship Manager instead, and ended up becoming multiple Premier League & European champions with my Rushden & Diamonds team!) I bet there are thousands of people like me who would have carried on playing if they had been supported more as kids.
Anyway, thanks again for posting it - I love your videos, but this was definitely one of your best!
Nice to see that in the 2 months that this was posted we have made a little bit of progress
Remember when people thought Ronaldo was gay because he took a picture with a guy
its honestly so refreshing seeing pro-lgbtq content surrounding football. I'm a member of the community as well as being a football fan and the amount of people ive met through football that i later have to disown because of their homophobia is outrageous
I don’t think content creators are as reactionary in average as fans in general - I’ve seen some pro gay footballers content on mainstream websites, but not so much anti gay footballlers. However, in the comment sections…
@Section 28 1, nice homophobic language but im a lesbian, 2 yeah i think its fine to disown people for not respecting you as a person
@Section 28 yeah people are responsible for their behaviour and so its easy to not be homophobic lol
This was excellently done, thank you
Great video Alfie, I have so much respect for you raising this issue. Keep up the good work. Love from Hungary 🇭🇺 🏳️🌈👍
@@SVEAddddd Are you sure that you are not gay? many homophobic people are gay themselves or 12 years old.
Thanks Kris, and pay no attention to the faceless emoji idiot. Your support is always appreciated on this channel, and having been subscribed for 3+ years is pretty impressive going!
@@HITCSevens thank you so much man 🙏. I always try and watch all the stuff you post, even the several hour long vids back in the day. This channel has really grown impressively, and you should be really proud of yourself for that.
@@ijmctfc6507 that seems quite an assumption?
As a youth football player, I can confirm a high level of putting certain behaviors down as "gay" in the squad. That being said, this was early 2000's, and I'm hoping things have changed since my days ⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽
hope things get better in future
👍👍
i can only imagine
@JeffChad thinking back, it would've been very tormenting to be in that environment, if I was gay. I can only hope it gets better in future, although I'm pessimistic too
@@FootballDrawn not to be a downer here but this situation remains a problem, although i have found that it is heavily impacted by the overall culture of an area
Great stuff, Alfie, you have another subscriber.
Good on you Alfie, an issue that needs to be talked about more for certain
There is one openly gay player I know of in the USL Championship by the name of Collin Martin, who was actually called a homophobic slur by a player on the other team (junior flemmings) during a match. Heartbreaking story if you read up on it.
Not surprised hw said that he is Jamaican a very homophobic nation
@@SGT676 it is?
@@brandonhey7797 Yes im from there and it is very homophobic
‘it’s political keep it out of football’ it’s a basic human right mate 😭
"Its political doesnt belong in football" is basically just "im not homophobic but"
@@aaronmcd1836 or maybe, just doesn’t want to see football matches become political theatre. You’re gay? Cool, no one should treat you badly for it. You’re black or any other race? Cool, you should be treated just like everybody else. But on the pitch just play the game
always astonishing when idiots say it would be political.
How
How tf is someones sexual orientation political?
Like, did they choose which sexuality they have?
Can I be attracted to a washing machine now ´cause I chose to?
No, no I cant.
Politics can be chosen. Attraction cant.
@@Alan-eb6zi Society is political theatre. Homophobic chants occur regularly. "Cool, no one should treat you badly" the point is people will, you think if there was a gay footballer in the prem, they wouldn't be abused weekly?
@@fl9975 no one’s saying that being gay is a political message though.
Great content Alfie. Thanks.
I subbed after watching this video. Keep up the great work
This is one of if not the best videos you have done very thought provoking and insightful. You called out football fans as a whole general society the government fifa uefa infact pretty much everyone for their contributions to the lack of support shown to homosexual men within the game, I feel the media have such a pivotal role to play with bigotry in general, often main stream newspapers are able to publish quite horrible articles with out and out lies with no repercussions
If you ever see a football video talking about racism or homophobia, the comments and like to dislike ratio show you there is still a lot of work to be done
All opinions should be the same as mine.
@@veler6049 You're proving their point lol
@@hermitcrack9091 Nazi and anime pfp, what a typical combo
Nowt but respect - as a steward who's heard homophobic abuse at matches (both aimed at players, and at myself when I've challenged people on it/had them ejected) - I can certainly confirm it's a massive issue, and what you say about nobody challenging them on it certainly rings true, having some what we believe to be, new fans come to one of the clubs I work for yelling the abuse (who we are unfortunately unable to pinpoint yet, still working on that), but when they're found they'll be out and likely banned. It should come of some comfort to people that the clubs make no delay when it comes to ousting the people who consider it acceptable to use homophobic (or other offensive shouts - but that's a different matter) language.
Quality video, Alfie
Fantastic video, as always. Best football channel on the internet.
"football is not actually, as FIFA so often likes to claim, for everyone"
this is the simple yet brutal truth
This is a simple yet stolen comment
@@hvr. Yeah no shit Sherlock, that's how quotes work.
@@ddandymann it was sarcasm
Also, in the case of top flight or premier league clubs, they're probably threatened by their club not to come out so as not to affect overseas revenue. Like how Hollywood edits it's films for Asian markets
This has a good point actually.. many asian countries do not support this and they HAVE a lot of fanbase here
Not really asian markets but more for Chinese markets since its such a vast country.
@@ComradeFoxx I live in China and homosexuallity is viewed in a much more progressive manner over here than you might think. It's completely socially acceptable to be a gay man or woman in China, the Chinese government are perfectly fine with allowing gay men and women to be on state-run television and hate crimes against homosexuals are treated with harsher sentences than in the West. Although, in China there is lot of other social pressues here such as fallout from the one-child policy, lack of effective care homes for elderly people and the benefits of raising a child in a country with a state-sponsored birthrate push that forces gay men and women in China to marry and start a family despite not being attracted to their partner.
@@danielmee3938 Really? Last I heard there was still rampant homophobia in the relatively rural areas.
@@ryanergo754 it's the same in the UK too, so it sounds about the same.
really important video this mate! Great work
beautiful video, an nfl player carl nassib came out a few months ago and the respect and acceptance of him by teammates and media was amazing i hope the same thing can happen if any footballer opens up and leads the way for more people to truly express themselves
Thank you Alfie for the best single form of media on the topic, handled exceptionally well, fuck a drop in subs, you’ve got us, THE GAYS we’ve been here forever and every word you said made perfect sense to everyone one of us well done 👍🏳️🌈👍
He's an ally alright