I Respects and enjoys the discourse between experts in photography, who provide high-level information to the general public, your discourse is quality and useful
Enjoyed the episode as usual! Just a quick note about Topaz DeNoise AI. They regularly update the program, and now there are four AI Models to choose from. Most of the time, at least one of them gives favorable results without leaving a patch or two of noise in an image. That used to aggravate me, so I was glad to see that improvement.
Yes they are constantly updating things. I still use it as well. But it just makes sense to me to add the DXO pure raw as a pre-processing step. Very easy to integrate in to a workflow.
@@GlennBartley - I have tried PR and liked the results, but I haven't decided how well it will fit into my workflow, which is very basic. Going to have to give it some more thought...
Thanks a lot both of you, its an amazing show. I am a big fan of you two. Actually I already bought the Jan’s master class and I admit my workflow and the edit quality reach to another level. I would highly suggest that to everyone 🌱🥰
This is absolutely the best show on a Saturday Night! ☺️ It's really interesting to listen to your advices of getting better picture results and still keeping time of post processing down. I'm at your "old workflow line", but you make me try this program sometime. Thanks for your chat! Kind Regards, Jan DK
@@jan_wegener Jan, I am halfway through your Masterclass and really enjoying it, but it came to my mind after the first "simple edit ", that you do no sharpening. If you do, when will you put that in the process ? Would you do any sharpening anytime the Camera Raw? Kind Regards, Jan
@@Squeezesify Awesome. I am glad you are enjoying the class! I typically apply some standard sharpening when I put the image through ACR (15-40 value) and only sharpen the image again if I want to print it. Otherwise I don't apply any extra sharpening
After watching this video, I am now using DxO PureRAW. It's pretty amazing. Thanks for the great tip. However, I noticed something that surprised me. I had assumed that DxO PureRAW processed cRAW files would be about half the size of DxO PureRAW processed RAW files. Turns out they end up the same size! For example, I took 2 test photos with exactly the same settings. The RAW file was 79.1 MB and the cRAW file was 37.4 MB. After processing with DxO PureRAW the file sizes were 219.2 MB and 219.3 MB, respectively. Just an FYI. Also, in another test, I took a series of photos keeping the aperture constant at F2.8, but increasing the ISO by one stop at a time while reducing the shutter speed by one stop to keep the exposure the same. I compared photos taken with ISOs ranging from 1600 to 102400. Roughly, by my eye, the ISO 102400 photo processed with DxO PureRAW was similar in noise levels to the ISO 6400 photo as rendered by Adobe LR without using DxO PureRAW. That's amazing. Finally, I used TOPAZ denoise after treating the ISO 102400 photo that was processed with DxO PureRAW and it was actually of reasonable quality, even useable (after looking hideous / completely useless after initial import into Adobe LR). So it's pretty amazing what can be done with these AI programs.
Awesome! I think Pure RAW just creates a brand new DNG file that only takes the RAW/cRAW files as basis. If the DNG is not compressed at all, it makes sense to have similar file size, because it has the same dimensions as the two input files. I never keep the DNG Pure RAW creates. I load it as my base layer into Photoshop and once I have saved my PSD, the Pure RAW dng goes to the bin.
@@jan_wegener interesting, I have started using the trial version and found a good way to integrate it into my personal workflow in Lightroom. I import all raw files into Lightroom as normal with PureRaw open; then I drag and drop the files I want to treat into Pure Raw. Once they processed without profiles then export from Pure Raw you get an option to save in a subfolder in the same Lightroom folder as the original raw file. So this works well as a quasi-cull if like me you don’t develop a lot of your pics at one time and keep most of the raw files before a cull later. I am waiting to hear how you get on with Will Goodlets profiles before I add that step. Look forward to hear further!
Thank you guys again so much!! I am transitioning to the R5 from the 5D Mk4 and the Eye Focus is THE game changer! I'm in the cue when RF 100-500's start being available, so what I'm so happy with now is only going to continue to improve. Most all of my pics are in-flight and I'm still working and learning how to make the R5 work for me. Keep up the GREAT work!!!
@@jan_wegener 1st thing I did! Next morning weather was iffy and turned to worse, but had time to find what I gotten right, missed and had different preferences to set for my next opportunity. It's funny how just changing from a 5D to the R5, what had become my comfy familiar setup didn't translate how I expected. At times I felt like I was starting all over...but I guess in a way, I am. Although, I am getting some great shots!!
Great show guys! Already looking forward to the next one. Glenn is probably not aware of it but Capture One has also the traditional, non subscription based purchasing model.
I think the issue there will be that you don't get updates down the road, which will then require an additional purchase of the new version for new cameras etc
The thing is this. Photoshop is the best with no real alternative. So I still need to find a way to get the files there in a fairly quick way. Adobe has been doing an appalling job for whatever reason with the R5/R6, but also A1. Yet PS is still unbeaten, so that's why we are trying to find ways to make it work.
Love your new program. Great to see you, Glenn! Thanks for introducing me to Pure Raw - love it. Exciting for me Pure Raw just updated to include the a1 ( previously only Photolab supported the a1). I let PR convert and then export to Camera Raw to finish. Keep up the good work!
Looking forward to the R7... I am thinking that one of the big advantages of it will be that it will increase the size of the autofocus areas on the f11 primes. There is one area that I shoot where there is no cover and the extra reach of an 800 would be awesome.
I think it will depend on it's AF system and how good it will be whether it will changed the area available on the F11s. Will be interesting to see what will or won't come out in the future
Many thanks for this great video! After watching your video I downloaded DXO PR and I am really impressed with your proposed workflow! Pictures taken with the R5 and RF 1-500 or the RF800 are now much sharper than with my old workflow. In addition I am using Topsz sharpen and/or denoise to improve further.
... And thank you guys so much for making this brilliant video :) While I was recently favouring DPP for colours my mental health was also beginning to suffer and I was also finding it difficult to reduce noise when cropping in on my R5 files. Using LR and PS I was getting acceptable results but having seen your comparison between ACR and PureRaw (at 10:15) you've convinced me to give PureRaw a try. I had also been considering Color Fidelity and Topaz Denoise and pleased to hear your positive comments on both which is the reassurance someone like myself needs.
Great shot sometimes you only get the one chance ! I had a Red footed falcon at my local reserve (which do not turn up very often !)this morning ! I was able to get it in flight with the Sony A1! Awesome
Yeah, they are not very common if you don't live in Siberia, hopefully you will up out a video. The same situation to me happened a year ago, but sadly my settings ver totally wrong so I only got a still shot.
DXO is now part of my workflow and I’m very pleased with the results, I’m glad it’s a one off payment, rather than yet another subscription. Great show again thanks, a new 7d sounds a good idea.
Thanks Jan for another very informative video. The revised workflow outline is particularly good. As an R5 (recent) user, I am wondering if you are still using the Canon R5 setup where you recommended (in an August 2020 video) double back button focus settings etc and if because of more field use with this camera that you have either confirmed or modified this approach.
Thanks for another great episode. I think I have been checking just about everyday for new information on the R7. I did read somewhere that there would be an announcement in Aug/Sept this year. Anyway, thanks again. All the best, Brian.
Another great show guys 👍 I've been trialling DXO PureRAW and didn't realise you could actually turn off the camera profile & excessive over sharpening, that helps a lot but I still find the complete lack of any controls a bit limitting. Did you know ON1 have just released NoNoise AI? It's very similar to DeNoise & PureRAW, I'm still comparing the 3 of them but so far I'm thinking it gives the best results and allows you to control the settings much like DeNoise. Also there are another set of R5 & R6 colour profiles available from Will Goodlet, I haven't tried them yet but they could also be a good option.
@@jan_wegener NoNoise AI works as a standalone program or a plugin for Lightroom & Photoshop so you can apply it directly to the RAW file and export it as a dng much like PureRAW or use it in post processing. However, ON1 state that it is not optimized for use as a plugin yet so the standalone version is the only way to go until ON1 come out with a new version.
I'm a very amateur bird photographer and just starting out with the editing process (saving to do one of your Master Classes, Jan and/or downloading your eBook, Glenn). These are my specs for my MacBook Air 2015:- Processor - 1.6 GHz Intel Core i5; Memory - 4GB 1600 MHz DDR3 and Graphics Intel HD Graphics 600 1536MB. Is this enough for processing? I have absolutely no idea. Loving your videos!
@@TheKatWatto all depends on budget and what you want to do. If you stay with apple the MacBook pros are doing well when it comes to editing. Your's is fairly old, so almost every new one will do much faster processing
Hi Glenn & Jan. You spoke of the fidelity profile But you haven't mentioned the Person/Company that is selling this. I assume that various persons will claim to have the perfect profile for the R5. Could you include the details of where you purchased it from. Thanks.
Thanks again for another great video! Just purchased a colour profile set from Colour Fidelity for the R5 and can’t wait to see how they go. I’ve taken some shots of Macaws on the weekend and have never had so much issues with colour correction, especially the reds and oranges. This will be a great time saver! Cheers
You will most likely have to play around with the luminance and hue in ACR/LR for those very colourful birds. Especially the Reds and oranges as you mention
Yes hopefully they get you closer. You might also want to set up an ACR preset with that takes advantage of some of the sliders in the "Color Mixer" tab. Thats what I have done and explain in my recent "Process with Me" instalment - www.glennbartley.com/ProcessWithMe9Ebook.html
@@GlennBartley thanks a lot Glenn. I have been pre-processing in DxO, move into LR for global adjustments and then PS for local adjustments. Will take a look at ACR and using the presets. Much appreciated!
You refer to cRAW providing more shots but Jan, but have you yet come to agree that there is no quality difference between Raw and cRAW ? I couldn't see any difference when I compared it on an R5 I hired some months back. I have also gone over to DXO deep prime. Not a night and day difference to Topaz but files do look a little better. I always use the DXO lens/camera corrections so you have now got me worried that this was not the right thing to do . Yes, it can oversharpen a tad sometimes. I will have to try your profile recommendation, so thanks for that.
Hi John, I will probably start using cRAW when I know there will be a lot of action. Otherwise I start to worry that with the 12bit electronic shutter files + cRAW something has to give at some point... In terms of DXO. I don't think there's right or wrong. quite often the modules actually work well, but at other times they are going a bit overboard
Hey Jan, wann bist du mal wieder in good old Germany? Vielleicht gibst du ja mal ein Workshop in Sachen Vogelfotografie-Bildbearbeitung? Würde mich sehr freuen. Gruß Michael
Hi Jan and Glenn, thanks for sharing your bird photography tips, and your photos are AMAZING! I have been puzzled about the cRAW file's quality up to today so I'm going to give it a try! One thing though, I was wondering if you could also talk about vidoegraphy at some point in the future, any shooting and processing tips will be hugely appreciated. Thank you.
I’ve now been reading about ON1 Nonoise AI. Supposedly this is now outdoing PureRaw and Topaz. Only 15 day trial so will be trying it once I have time off to give it a full workout. Have either of you tried it yet? Another great show!!
Jan, I just love your bird shots, Have you used cropped mode on the R5 instead of using the converter on your lens? I know the converters reduce the light hitting the sensors. I had used ACDC for my photos a very long time ago. more things to learn how to use, thanks Mike
The crop mode doesn't really give you any more reach. But if the bird is small in the frame it will make file sizes smaller and you wont hit the buffer as quick. I like to go in crop mode if I know i would just be cropping anyway. But ultimately if the bird is far and you want more pixels on it you need to use a teleconverter.
Thank you :) I don't use the crop mode much at all. I am always afraid I might miss an epic scene I wouldn't have missed if I crop afterwards. In terms of crop vs extender. In my opinion the 45 mpix extender image will always trump the 17 mpix crop, UNLESS you're using a cheaper zoom lens that doesn't handle extenders well.
OK, so only 3 episodes so far. This one, ofc, goes mostly over my head, but still informative and interesting. Also... you guys! Such a smart setup! White background, almost the same wood in the desk which is almost exactly at the same level in frame... it really looks like you're sitting next to each other (almost). How much tinkering did you two need to get to this proffessional setup?
We were pretty happy lucky the set up worked out. Now that you mention the table, we should probably align it haha :D More episodes will be coming soon. We are aiming for a bi-weekly schedule
Any time you open a file directly from Photoshop it automatically launches ACR. But processing your RAWs in LR is just fine if that is what you are comfortable with. It is the same thing.
Thanks for sharing the process. BTW COLOR FIDELITY PROFILES seems to have gone up to $25 from $15. Given that I've seen on other forums mentioning the $15 price, I'd assume that the price increase was recent. Which version have you been using? I think that it should be on v5 atm, have you seen any improvement to the colors compared to the previous version?
oh, I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing. Bit of a bummer! I am using V5 and it's definitely the best one atm. You get free updates once purchased AFAIK
HI guys! Loved your informative video; factual and helpful. I just quit using DPP for processing my RAW files, primarily because the program repeatedly failed to convert my edits into jpegs. So; I just got the LRc, Ps, LR suite for US$10.78/mo. So far, so good. I think that I will also get the DX Pure RAW and Color Fidelity Profiles software programs, based on your recommendations. I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts on me doing this as the best first added step to augmenting my Lightroom Suite. Thanks. I thoroughly enjoy what you two are doing with your new channel.
We can't tell you what to do, but that's what we are doing for now until we will find a better alternative or Adobe steps up their game :) Glad you are enjoying the channel!
Was hoping for a more in depth comparison between raw/craw as the title suggested. BTW CaptureOne is also availabe as one-time-buy Option. So no subsciption-only like Adobe …
The only difference I could see was when you underexpose low ISO images and pull them up a lot. then RAW was better. At higher ISO it behaved very similar. There's really not many arguments against cRAW and I will be using it more for high action as the buffer situation really seems to be the biggest difference. For normal stuff I will stick to RAW, since I am mostly using the electronic shutter and that is already 12 bit. But that decision is not really based on any logic other than me wanting to make sure I got the best quality just in case
Glad we could help. Does ON1 NN is applied before or after the RAW conversion. The good thing about DXO is that it creates a new DNG file. If we had to use ACR first and then denoise the image, we would already have all that bad ACR noise added to the image already. So to be able to use ACR, Pure RAW workflow is actually pretty good atm
@@jan_wegener It works on the .cr3, outputting a .dng, so it is the first thing. It also optionally applies selectable levels of sharpening and detail, and masking. I haven't used these so far, just the default .dng. I started using it before I learned from you how to eliminate the over-sharpening in DxO PureRAW.
Great video, Jan and Glenn! I have DXO PureRAW and love it, but I find it takes quite a long time for it to process all my shots (1000+). Can you recommend a culling process to go through photos before starting PureRAW? Or do you cull in PureRAW? Thank you!
I am using FastStone Image viewer and Glenn breeze Browser to get rid of most photos. I only put the images through Pure RAW that I actually use. Pure RAw is very resource intensive, so a very fast computer speeds up the process a lot.
I use FastStone Image Viewer. It works great for most cameras and is free. But you do need a camera that embeds full size Jpegs with the RAW files for it to work well. It doesn't work on Mac however.
Very anxious to hear what you guys think about the new Adobe color profiles for the R5 ? This literally came out less than a week ago, and my R5 is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Might be perfect timing. I'd love to hear that you guys have tried it, and love it....
Great series you two have started. I am on my second R5 now and that one is currently at Canon being fixed (the AF stopped working consistently and accurately). I am using the DXO Pure Raw as a trial basis and it is much quicker than DPP. Do appreciate your testing of this software. Thank You.
For those that don't want to pay for another piece of software and would like to use their Adobe, there is a work around that makes things much better. You need to reverse all the garbage adjustments that Adobe have going on in the raw file, wether its R5 Or any other camera. Its these tone curve and other tonal adjustments that you can't see that are responsible for the extra noise, as well as overblown colour, in the supposedly " raw" file. You revert to an older version 2 processing version, zero all the adjustments which you can now see then go back to the latest process version. What you get now is a very flat, less saturated and lower noise file, the actual raw file. Getting the contrast and colour truly neutral is the best way to start your adjustments. A rainbow lorikeet is one of the best subjects for colour appraisal as it's a "memory colour" subject, if you're used to seeing them. I've processed an R5 file this way to day and its absolutely spot on, thrilled with how the "process version swap" preset I made has fixed the issue. Dpp does de mosaicing on Canon files maybe a bit better, but this Adobe work around is much less painful than dpp. I'm still going to try dxo pure raw as I want better noise reduction, I find topaz has too many artefacts. Just my 2 cents (or so) worth for anyone interested.
@@jan_wegener czcams.com/video/XNlrQeRXjU0/video.html . Im a patron to this guy and he is by far the most knowledgeable person I've come across. His depth of knowledge right across all aspects of photography is genuinely astounding. In the second half of this vid he outlines his " process version swap". And why he does it. He first showed how to do it a couple of years back and I've even doing it ever since. Let me know what you think if you wouldn't mind. Cheers Jan.
Jan, In your workflow you mention Download > CULL. What is Cull? Also, considering the file size DXO create, what do you do to filter and remove bad images before converting the RAW in DXO to limit storage?
I only run the images I want to edit through DXO, which is like 0.1 % of what I photograph. culling just refers to deleting the images I don't want to keep. Personally I don't keep the DXO DNGs. I just load them as my base layer in photoshop and that allows me to then delete the big dng
@@jan_wegener Thank you for the response. So what do you use to review the images for deletion? I will probably find the answer in your tutorial I purchased :-)
If you look at the workflow graphic we presented you are basically just using LR instead of BB for culling. Otherwise you can follow the workflow as we presented it. I'd definitely recommend getting the free trial of Pure RAW to check out - link is in the description.
Great content. I would be interested to know if you and Glenn process in 16 bit and how you save those files as you import and export between different programs in your workflow. Is bit depth important to you? How does each program deal with using 16 bit files and what formats each requires. Do these work well with each other? It seems that everything defaults to 8 bit when files are opened. Could you address this if it's important to your workflow? Thanks!
I understand. I thought that if You have the, photolab 4 and multi customise options, you can adjust to your needs and some Times replace the need of using acr or the lr. I noticed also that you can make your own presets of the chosen options like excluding the lens corrections options, colour style. It has also some ala color fidelity profiles.
There's a few reasons. Firstly the high frame rate. The flash just cannot keep up in High Speed mode. Secondly I don't feel like I need it as much anymore, as you can easier edit the image without flash. Thirdly with silent shutter now, the flash becomes the single most likely source to spook a bird. Before the shutter sound was much worse than the flash. With that gone, the flash becomes a bit more of a potential bird spooker.
Surely the real issue with processing in post is the problem that seems to be between Canon and Adobe, isn’t it really something that Adobe owes to it’s Canon subscribers to fix, otherwise Canon users might indeed start to jump ship for other programs.
I agree....It would be nice if they just solved the issue. But in the meantime... It's also crazy that Adobe doesn't have a decent program to quickly compare and cull images. Like Bridge is useless and could easily be a program like Breezebrowser or Faststone image viewer. Any other complaints with Adobe guys???
I am hearing for the first time about the issue with the R5 raw file and how Adobe handles it. However your video which I just listened to was made in July of 2021and now it is September of 2022, just over a year later. Is this issue still present today? Is it just as bad or has the issue improved some?
Hi Jan, Always great to see your video's and tips. Certenly very educating for enthousiast birding starter like me. Question, just very recently using dxo pureraw. So i understand you prefer disable to module for lens because it's oversharp. Now i agree it's a bit hard shap, but also very noisefree is the sharpening. I have a hard time to get this noisefree sharpening in lightroom or photoshop. About my sharpening workflow, in LR is use the sharpening mask, and in PS just the highpass filter. My lens is currently the rf800 for birds. Could you see if you can make a short tutorial maybe about sharpening?
It also depends on the lens combination and the images. For my 600mm prime lens it picks the wrong profile, for your 800 it will pick the right one, so the sharpening might be ok. I guess the only way to not add more noise with sharpening would be to do it in PS and masked out the background so only the bird is sharpened
I also use CRAW (and PureRAW) and i am a pixel peeper, no problems whatsoever. Especially if you want to use PureRAW, which creates big file sizes, you will be glad that the originals (the CRAWs) aren't so big.
My work flow with my R5 is to default denoinse the chrominance channel (removes colour blotches) in dpp, and set the luminance denoise off (preserves detail), and absolutely sharpening off in DPP. The DPP .tiff output file now has fine pin prick, sized noise structure that is easily removed (I use noiseware) even at higher isos. For very high isos sum the pixels in DPP, ie out put in half hight and half width when exporting to .tiff. This process really does give one stop better noise performance. From my initial tests, CRAW doesnt seem to have the same fine pinprick pixel sized noise structure, and thus doesnt denoise as cleanly at higher isos, eg, 6400 and above, thus I do not use CRAW. Using a 512MB Sandisk CFexpress b card, I can shoot 109 images straight at 12fps mechanical before the buffer is filled, at full sized RAW plus 2nd to biggest jpeg. Note, this card was tested as the fastest card to clear the R5 buffer, so a tiny pause, and you are good to go again. Note also that this 512MB card is significantly faster in testing than the smaller versions, regardless what Sandisk claims. The 16bit .tiff output from DPP is 260MB eitherway, regardless whether you use RAW or CRAW, so nothing really to be gained by using CRAW. If there was truley no difference in image quality between RAW and CRAW, Canon would only give you CRAW.
Thanks so much to both of you. So helpful. I know you both use 600 mm lenses on tripods. But for those of us getting on a bit who are finding lugging it all just too much, what lens would you suggest for the R5 to get enough reach and be possible to hand-hold. Thanks so much Jonathan
100-500 or 11/800 would be my choices. Very different lenses, so it depends what you want to get out of it. The 800 is a bit limited, but the price is extremely attractive
Ya they are always tweaking things. Its sometimes annoying that it always wants to update...but at the same time if they are improving the program you cant really fault them...
The advantage of Pure RAW is that you can apply it to the RAW file prior to opening it in ACR, so ACR cannot apply any noise to the file, because it's smooth when it comes out of Pure RAW. With Topaz I have to open the file first. Great that they are improving it, tho!
Hi Jan, dont really know how to reach you so I am trying asking you a question in this outstanding vidéo. Here I go. I bought the BPS PROSETS - Bundle Pack including Jack of all trade Preset and all the others. Now I have imported them into my Lightroom Classic 11.4.1 on my MacOS Big Sur 11.6 IMac desktop. Here the problem I have, Once imported into Lightroom the Proset dont show up just like you said, but I dont see them in the list of my Preset in order to select them in to my favorites ? Can you Help...
Hi Jan... In the new workflow you introduced DxO PR. Will this give good stating point for CR3 files coming out of Canon EOS R5 camera, and I don't need to run the RAW file in DPP before getting it into Lightroom or ACR+Photoshop? If this is true, then I can buy DxOPR.
Hi Jan. I tried DxO demo and it has trouble working on my computer. After processing the thumbnail is blank? very frustrating. Enjoy you two very much thanks.
I usually update it when it comes out, even tho it always takes ages to install. The main thing for Glenn and me now is that Pure RAW allows us to apply NR before we add the image to ACR, eliminating any noise ACR could mess with. Glenn still use topaz afterwards when within PS.
Hi Guys. Thanks heaps as I've already learnt a lot from the many videos you both have available. I'm retired now so I get to spend good time in the bush chasing birds. In the last couple of years I have become a keen bird photographer. I use Lightroom Classic and am really happy with the results. I've just purchased DXO and Topaz denoise and the results are amazing. The question I have relates to ACR and Lightroom and the colour fidelity profiles (I've just added these into Lightroom). Is ACR part of Lightroom rather than a plugin or separate software. If it is part of lightroom do I import my dng files from DXO straight into Lightroom and process the photos as I have in the past and experiment with the colour fidelity profiles and Topaz denoise. Cheers Bruce
Fantastic to hear Bruce. ACR is the RAW processing engine of Photoshop and very similar to LR, but completely separate to it. So you can just load the profiles into LR and edit the Pure RAW DNGs in LR.
Jan, do you always use Deep Prime mode in DXO. I processed 20 photos (culled from 100 photos) from my R6 earlier today and it took over 2 hours. In a sense it doesn't matter as I can leave it overnight but it did surprise me. Cheers Bruce
@@brucewatts2249 I just ran 20 files to test and it took less than 2 minutes. On my old computer it took much longer as well. On this new one it's very fast.
@@jan_wegener My laptop is not shabby but it is a couple of years old which makes it technically due for the pension. If possible can you provide make and model etc of the new computer. Thanks
Hi Jan, after you import the PureRaw DNG into Lightroom, how do you change the profile to Color Fidelity? When I import to Lightroom, the profiles are available and the profile type chosen is "embedded" and I can't seem to change it. Any tips?
Hey, that's odd. When you are in the develop tab, it doesn't show the dropdown menu? You might have to make the profiles a favourite to show in the list?
Great show guys, really appreciate the content. I have a question regarding your buffer tests using a CF Express card vs SD card & RAW vs C-RAW, what class & rating was the SD card? UHS l or ll ? V30 or V60 or V90 would love to know. Keep up the great work. Jean-Louis
@@jan_wegener And than obviously everything goes down from there. But - given my post processing capabilities are terrible - I use DXO as well. Its denoising saves lot of pictures for me! So happy to hear more about it.
Sorry to go off topic but I have a question. I'm still very new to my R5 and havent got out in the wild with it yet, only testing indoors with a toy owl about 30cm high sitting on a table so when I do get out I'll be prepared! I've seen quite a few comments about AF tracking not being able to focus properly on the intended subject and have experienced the same using an RF600mm in low light when contrast is poor which is to be expected. I read a forum comment saying that focussing was helped by changing to 1.6 crop and have found the same improvement. I've also customised my movie button to select shooting area options so I can change beween full and crop reasonably quickly although I would prefer to be able to toggle full or crop but I dont think that's possible. Assuming the subject is in the distance making focus difficult and that you would crop in post, I think it might be better to use crop mode in those situations. Was wondering what your thoughts are?
I don't use the crop mode much, but because it zooms in, it can help you to find and easier focus on the bird in the viewfinder. Which situations are you referring to when you say the R5 is not being able to focus on the intended target? Do you mean when it gets stuck on the background>
@@jan_wegener Yes, sometimes I'm finding it difficult to focus on a smaller subject when it gets stuck on the background. Same when using the full area and narrow or single AF point it can miss a smaller subject unlike my previous DSLR's but its only when there's no definition to lock onto against a busy background. I'm sure it's a learning curve and nothing to worry about :)
Interesting.. I found out that the PhotoLab 4 has the same functions and there you can choose to adjust the settings. Watch "Replacing DxO PureRAW with DxO PhotoLab 4 Elite " and you will see! :D its better option than the Dxo Pure RAW
@@GlennBartley You should try it. It's the same functionality.. but you can control the strength of it :) so if the noise reduction or sharpening is to aggressive, you an adjust that. Or only apply noise reduction.
What lens do you recommend for someone who's wanting to try bird photography that doesn't break the bank? I have the Canon r6. Also are prime lenses better for a beginner?
Well you have a great camera body so that's awesome. For a lens I think I'd either go for the RF 100-500 if it is in the budget - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547011-REG/canon_rf_100_500mm_f_4_6_3l_is.html/BI/7954/KBID/8450 Or If you want to spend a bit less then maybe one of the super zooms from Sigma or Tamron - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1636755-REG/tamron_afa057s_700_150_500mm_f_5_6_7_di_iii.html/BI/7954/KBID/8450
We will talk about lenses in a future video. Primes are generally better, but also more expensive and generally heavier. On an R6 I would probably look at 100-500 (expensive, but amazing) or 100-400 EF with adapter. The Sigmas & Tamrons are good, but struggle a bit on the mirrorless Canons when it comes to communication and stabilisation. As you said below, the 11/800 could be a very nice inexpensive option with some limitations.
Thanks guys for another great video filled with information. I’m wildlife but mostly bird photographer and I’m having some trouble with my post process work flow.. I got rid of Adobe and creative cloud … I do have Topaz denoise & sharpen…. Soo I’m now kind of stuck here with my SD cards piling up and not getting any images out there… any1 out there with any advice or of course from Jan …. & crew . THANKS
At this stage I don't see a great way to edit photos without Adobe, there might be some, but not sure they'd be better or equal. Are you using any programs atm?
why you are guys using so many different programs to process your images? Isn't working with lightroom much faster and easier? Maybe you can show us some examples and compare them for us? greeting from germany ;)
Simply...... the best!
Thanks!
I Respects and enjoys the discourse between experts in photography, who provide high-level information to the general public, your discourse is quality and useful
Cheers!
Thank you!
Love it. Two perfectionists doing their thing. Proud as a mum!
Thanks Athena! 😍
hahahaha! Thanks :)
Enjoyed the episode as usual! Just a quick note about Topaz DeNoise AI. They regularly update the program, and now there are four AI Models to choose from. Most of the time, at least one of them gives favorable results without leaving a patch or two of noise in an image. That used to aggravate me, so I was glad to see that improvement.
Yes they are constantly updating things. I still use it as well. But it just makes sense to me to add the DXO pure raw as a pre-processing step. Very easy to integrate in to a workflow.
@@GlennBartley - I have tried PR and liked the results, but I haven't decided how well it will fit into my workflow, which is very basic. Going to have to give it some more thought...
Yes, good to see them improve the program! Next step needs to be to lower download and installation time lol.
@@jan_wegener - Agreed. I usually start the process and then go do something else while it completes. LOL
Another great episode guys, I look forward to the next one. Cheers, Duade
Thanks mate
Thanks Duade!!
Thanks a lot both of you, its an amazing show. I am a big fan of you two. Actually I already bought the Jan’s master class and I admit my workflow and the edit quality reach to another level. I would highly suggest that to everyone 🌱🥰
Thank you my friend! I am glad I could help you and many of others who loved my Masterclass as well. I love helping you guys to improve your photos :)
Thanks so much Nader!
Thanks guys…purchased DXO and is certainly a game changer👍👍👍
Awesome Gary. Glad you like it.
Glad it's helping you
This is absolutely the best show on a Saturday Night! ☺️
It's really interesting to listen to your advices of getting better picture results and still keeping time of post processing down. I'm at your "old workflow line", but you make me try this program sometime.
Thanks for your chat!
Kind Regards, Jan DK
So glad you enjoyed it!
Yes give DXO a try. Free trial here - 👉 tidd.ly/3dzAxdH
Glad you enjoy it! Yes, give it a go. It's the first piece of external software I really enjoyed besides the NIK Collection
@@jan_wegener Jan, I am halfway through your Masterclass and really enjoying it, but it came to my mind after the first "simple edit ", that you do no sharpening. If you do, when will you put that in the process ? Would you do any sharpening anytime the Camera Raw?
Kind Regards, Jan
@@Squeezesify Awesome. I am glad you are enjoying the class! I typically apply some standard sharpening when I put the image through ACR (15-40 value) and only sharpen the image again if I want to print it. Otherwise I don't apply any extra sharpening
Great video, thank you guys!
Our pleasure!
Another great show. Keep them coming. Looking forward to ep. 3 and your take on new Canon camera rumors.
Glad to hear it Rex!
After watching this video, I am now using DxO PureRAW. It's pretty amazing. Thanks for the great tip. However, I noticed something that surprised me. I had assumed that DxO PureRAW processed cRAW files would be about half the size of DxO PureRAW processed RAW files. Turns out they end up the same size! For example, I took 2 test photos with exactly the same settings. The RAW file was 79.1 MB and the cRAW file was 37.4 MB. After processing with DxO PureRAW the file sizes were 219.2 MB and 219.3 MB, respectively. Just an FYI. Also, in another test, I took a series of photos keeping the aperture constant at F2.8, but increasing the ISO by one stop at a time while reducing the shutter speed by one stop to keep the exposure the same. I compared photos taken with ISOs ranging from 1600 to 102400. Roughly, by my eye, the ISO 102400 photo processed with DxO PureRAW was similar in noise levels to the ISO 6400 photo as rendered by Adobe LR without using DxO PureRAW. That's amazing. Finally, I used TOPAZ denoise after treating the ISO 102400 photo that was processed with DxO PureRAW and it was actually of reasonable quality, even useable (after looking hideous / completely useless after initial import into Adobe LR). So it's pretty amazing what can be done with these AI programs.
You nailed it. They are incredible.
Very similar testing to what I did and found the same conclusions.
Awesome!
I think Pure RAW just creates a brand new DNG file that only takes the RAW/cRAW files as basis. If the DNG is not compressed at all, it makes sense to have similar file size, because it has the same dimensions as the two input files.
I never keep the DNG Pure RAW creates. I load it as my base layer into Photoshop and once I have saved my PSD, the Pure RAW dng goes to the bin.
@@jan_wegener interesting, I have started using the trial version and found a good way to integrate it into my personal workflow in Lightroom. I import all raw files into Lightroom as normal with PureRaw open; then I drag and drop the files I want to treat into Pure Raw. Once they processed without profiles then export from Pure Raw you get an option to save in a subfolder in the same Lightroom folder as the original raw file. So this works well as a quasi-cull if like me you don’t develop a lot of your pics at one time and keep most of the raw files before a cull later. I am waiting to hear how you get on with Will Goodlets profiles before I add that step. Look forward to hear further!
@@kenmonahan9924 Thanks for sharing
Thank you guys again so much!! I am transitioning to the R5 from the 5D Mk4 and the Eye Focus is THE game changer! I'm in the cue when RF 100-500's start being available, so what I'm so happy with now is only going to continue to improve. Most all of my pics are in-flight and I'm still working and learning how to make the R5 work for me. Keep up the GREAT work!!!
Awesome Chris. That's a deadly combo!!
Thank you! Great to hear! Make sure to check out my video how to set it up if you haven't already. Eye AF is definitely a true game changer
@@jan_wegener 1st thing I did! Next morning weather was iffy and turned to worse, but had time to find what I gotten right, missed and had different preferences to set for my next opportunity. It's funny how just changing from a 5D to the R5, what had become my comfy familiar setup didn't translate how I expected. At times I felt like I was starting all over...but I guess in a way, I am. Although, I am getting some great shots!!
@@chrisluck78 Awesome, yes it's a bit of a learning curve
I use the CF profiles but also find that Will Goodlet's profiles are a bit more exact to DPP results. Very interesting video!
Thanks for the tip Ben!
Missing my field days.
Just love your work..
Cheers!
Thank you, glad you're enjoying the videos
Great show guys! Already looking forward to the next one. Glenn is probably not aware of it but Capture One has also the traditional, non subscription based purchasing model.
Thanks so much.
Yes I'm aware... But still not interested 😂
@@GlennBartley 👍
I think the issue there will be that you don't get updates down the road, which will then require an additional purchase of the new version for new cameras etc
Well done guys. Legendary.
Thank you very much!
Thank you!
Excellent show, very informative.
Glad you enjoyed the episode 😀
Much appreciated!
So the plan is to rent (forever) from Adobe, Camera RAW which adds noise, and Photoshop that produces dull colours. Sounds amazing product.
The thing is this. Photoshop is the best with no real alternative. So I still need to find a way to get the files there in a fairly quick way. Adobe has been doing an appalling job for whatever reason with the R5/R6, but also A1. Yet PS is still unbeaten, so that's why we are trying to find ways to make it work.
Until there is an alternative....
I am enjoying your "show" very much.What an amazing image! Congrats!
Thank you very much!
Great to hear Gail!
Another cracking video really enjoyed it
Thanks Kathleen!
So glad to hear that!
Love your new program. Great to see you, Glenn! Thanks for introducing me to Pure Raw - love it. Exciting for me Pure Raw just updated to include the a1 ( previously only Photolab supported the a1). I let PR convert and then export to Camera Raw to finish. Keep up the good work!
Yes, they just added that. Glad you are enjoying the show.
Hi Bonnie!!!
Glad you are enjoying the show and the program.
Looking forward to the R7... I am thinking that one of the big advantages of it will be that it will increase the size of the autofocus areas on the f11 primes. There is one area that I shoot where there is no cover and the extra reach of an 800 would be awesome.
We'll be chatting about our thoughts on this in the next episode. Will there be an R7???? What do you guys think???
I think it will depend on it's AF system and how good it will be whether it will changed the area available on the F11s.
Will be interesting to see what will or won't come out in the future
Super stuff. Thank you.
You are welcome!
Glad you liked it!
Amazing amount of helpful info in this series. Thanks for the time index too because I would like to review this multiple times.
Glad you found it helpful Michelle!
Great to hear!
Many thanks for this great video!
After watching your video I downloaded DXO PR and I am really impressed with your proposed workflow!
Pictures taken with the R5 and RF 1-500 or the RF800 are now much sharper than with my old workflow. In addition I am using Topsz sharpen and/or denoise to improve further.
Great to hear!
awesome
just tried the dxo demo out on a platypus I saw the other day and Im impressed, it actually seemed like an improvement rather than a tradeoff.
Yes, that's how we felt!
Yes it really works some serious magic!
Nice show! Thx for showing those processes!
Thanks so much for watching. Glad you enjoyed!
Glad you liked it!
... And thank you guys so much for making this brilliant video :)
While I was recently favouring DPP for colours my mental health was also beginning to suffer and I was also finding it difficult to reduce noise when cropping in on my R5 files.
Using LR and PS I was getting acceptable results but having seen your comparison between ACR and PureRaw (at 10:15) you've convinced me to give PureRaw a try.
I had also been considering Color Fidelity and Topaz Denoise and pleased to hear your positive comments on both which is the reassurance someone like myself needs.
Glad we could help your workflow. Let us know how you go
Cheers Adrian!
Excellent episode, as always, thanks! Looking forward to hearing more about the R7!
Cheers Philippe!
Coming soon! Thank you
brilliant, as always!!!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you! Cheers!
Enjoying these videos
Glad to hear it!
Awesome
Great shot sometimes you only get the one chance ! I had a Red footed falcon at my local reserve (which do not turn up very often !)this morning ! I was able to get it in flight with the Sony A1! Awesome
Nice!
Great work!
Yeah, they are not very common if you don't live in Siberia, hopefully you will up out a video. The same situation to me happened a year ago, but sadly my settings ver totally wrong so I only got a still shot.
@@birdsandscratch8331 All over eastern europe winter in Africa but this one miles of course working on the video awesome !
@@CamillaI I am patiently waiting
Great show, thanks to both of you.
Thanks so much!
Our pleasure!
DXO is now part of my workflow and I’m very pleased with the results, I’m glad it’s a one off payment, rather than yet another subscription. Great show again thanks, a new 7d sounds a good idea.
Cheers Robert!
Great to hear!
Great content guys really good to hear your points of view... huge thanks...
Thanks for watching!
Thanks Jan for another very informative video. The revised workflow outline is particularly good. As an R5 (recent) user, I am wondering if you are still using the Canon R5 setup where you recommended (in an August 2020 video) double back button focus settings etc and if because of more field use with this camera that you have either confirmed or modified this approach.
Thanks!
I have basically not changed my settings at all. Just swapped which button does the eye AF from start to Af on, but it's the same thing really
Thanks for another great episode. I think I have been checking just about everyday for new information on the R7. I did read somewhere that there would be an announcement in Aug/Sept this year. Anyway, thanks again. All the best, Brian.
We shall see!
Thank you! YEs, it's been pretty quiet, but surely we can dig up some info for the next show
Another great show guys 👍
I've been trialling DXO PureRAW and didn't realise you could actually turn off the camera profile & excessive over sharpening, that helps a lot but I still find the complete lack of any controls a bit limitting.
Did you know ON1 have just released NoNoise AI? It's very similar to DeNoise & PureRAW, I'm still comparing the 3 of them but so far I'm thinking it gives the best results and allows you to control the settings much like DeNoise.
Also there are another set of R5 & R6 colour profiles available from Will Goodlet, I haven't tried them yet but they could also be a good option.
Thanks!
Do you apply ON1 before or after you have opened the image in Photoshop?
Good info Dave. Thanks for sharing!
@@jan_wegener NoNoise AI works as a standalone program or a plugin for Lightroom & Photoshop so you can apply it directly to the RAW file and export it as a dng much like PureRAW or use it in post processing.
However, ON1 state that it is not optimized for use as a plugin yet so the standalone version is the only way to go until ON1 come out with a new version.
@@DaveCatley thank you!
I'm a very amateur bird photographer and just starting out with the editing process (saving to do one of your Master Classes, Jan and/or downloading your eBook, Glenn). These are my specs for my MacBook Air 2015:- Processor - 1.6 GHz Intel Core i5; Memory - 4GB 1600 MHz DDR3 and Graphics Intel HD Graphics 600 1536MB. Is this enough for processing? I have absolutely no idea.
Loving your videos!
You will be able to do some editing, but it will be a struggle, especially for things like Adobe Enhance or DXO Pure RAW for noise reduction.
@@jan_wegenerthank you for such a prompt response! Would you know what the minimum specs I would need?
@@TheKatWatto all depends on budget and what you want to do. If you stay with apple the MacBook pros are doing well when it comes to editing.
Your's is fairly old, so almost every new one will do much faster processing
@@jan_wegener many thanks Jan
Hi Glenn & Jan. You spoke of the fidelity profile But you haven't mentioned the Person/Company that is selling this.
I assume that various persons will claim to have the perfect profile for the R5. Could you include the details of where you purchased it from. Thanks.
Here is the link - www.colorfidelity.com/
Good point, forgot to link it!
Thanks again for another great video! Just purchased a colour profile set from Colour Fidelity for the R5 and can’t wait to see how they go. I’ve taken some shots of Macaws on the weekend and have never had so much issues with colour correction, especially the reds and oranges. This will be a great time saver! Cheers
You will most likely have to play around with the luminance and hue in ACR/LR for those very colourful birds. Especially the Reds and oranges as you mention
Yes hopefully they get you closer.
You might also want to set up an ACR preset with that takes advantage of some of the sliders in the "Color Mixer" tab. Thats what I have done and explain in my recent "Process with Me" instalment - www.glennbartley.com/ProcessWithMe9Ebook.html
@@GlennBartley thanks a lot Glenn. I have been pre-processing in DxO, move into LR for global adjustments and then PS for local adjustments. Will take a look at ACR and using the presets. Much appreciated!
@@jan_wegener thanks Jan, I'll keep this in mind and reference when I do my next edits with the profiles.
@@GlennBartley just loaded these presets and pulled a file in from DxO to apply a profile. All I can say is WOW! Amazing result, thank you!
You refer to cRAW providing more shots but Jan, but have you yet come to agree that there is no quality difference between Raw and cRAW ? I couldn't see any difference when I compared it on an R5 I hired some months back.
I have also gone over to DXO deep prime. Not a night and day difference to Topaz but files do look a little better. I always use the DXO lens/camera corrections so you have now got me worried that this was not the right thing to do . Yes, it can oversharpen a tad sometimes. I will have to try your profile recommendation, so thanks for that.
Cheers John!
Yes I use cRAW exclusively. I see zero difference in quality.
Hi John,
I will probably start using cRAW when I know there will be a lot of action. Otherwise I start to worry that with the 12bit electronic shutter files + cRAW something has to give at some point...
In terms of DXO. I don't think there's right or wrong. quite often the modules actually work well, but at other times they are going a bit overboard
Hey Jan, wann bist du mal wieder in good old Germany? Vielleicht gibst du ja mal ein Workshop in Sachen Vogelfotografie-Bildbearbeitung? Würde mich sehr freuen. Gruß Michael
Gute Frage! Im Moment kann man ja Australien nicht mal verlassen
Hi Jan and Glenn, thanks for sharing your bird photography tips, and your photos are AMAZING! I have been puzzled about the cRAW file's quality up to today so I'm going to give it a try! One thing though, I was wondering if you could also talk about vidoegraphy at some point in the future, any shooting and processing tips will be hugely appreciated. Thank you.
MY next video will be about video
@@jan_wegener Fabulous! I'm so looking forward to it.😊
Amazing birds! Thanks for sharing !
Glad you liked it
Thanks for watching!
Love this show!
Awesome :)
Thanks Michelle! Tell your bird photography friends :-)
I’ve now been reading about ON1 Nonoise AI. Supposedly this is now outdoing PureRaw and Topaz. Only 15 day trial so will be trying it once I have time off to give it a full workout. Have either of you tried it yet? Another great show!!
I had a look but I didn't try it
Thanks!
Havent tried it yet. Let us know what you think!
Jan, I just love your bird shots, Have you used cropped mode on the R5 instead of using the converter on your lens? I know the converters reduce the light hitting the sensors. I had used ACDC for my photos a very long time ago. more things to learn how to use, thanks Mike
The crop mode doesn't really give you any more reach. But if the bird is small in the frame it will make file sizes smaller and you wont hit the buffer as quick. I like to go in crop mode if I know i would just be cropping anyway.
But ultimately if the bird is far and you want more pixels on it you need to use a teleconverter.
Thank you :) I don't use the crop mode much at all. I am always afraid I might miss an epic scene I wouldn't have missed if I crop afterwards. In terms of crop vs extender. In my opinion the 45 mpix extender image will always trump the 17 mpix crop, UNLESS you're using a cheaper zoom lens that doesn't handle extenders well.
OK, so only 3 episodes so far. This one, ofc, goes mostly over my head, but still informative and interesting. Also... you guys! Such a smart setup! White background, almost the same wood in the desk which is almost exactly at the same level in frame... it really looks like you're sitting next to each other (almost). How much tinkering did you two need to get to this proffessional setup?
We were pretty happy lucky the set up worked out. Now that you mention the table, we should probably align it haha :D
More episodes will be coming soon. We are aiming for a bi-weekly schedule
Thanks for the interesting show
Our pleasure!
Very welcome Gordon!
Wish you could get your hands on the RF 600mm F4 to test vs the EF version.
I will soon
Hi Jan, I always upload to lightroom. Forgive me for sounding stupid but how do you upload to Camera Raw? Great video btw.
Any time you open a file directly from Photoshop it automatically launches ACR.
But processing your RAWs in LR is just fine if that is what you are comfortable with. It is the same thing.
as Glenn said, if you drag a RAW file in PS, it will open ACR. It's essentially the same RAW conversion engine as LR.
Thanks for sharing the process. BTW COLOR FIDELITY PROFILES seems to have gone up to $25 from $15. Given that I've seen on other forums mentioning the $15 price, I'd assume that the price increase was recent. Which version have you been using? I think that it should be on v5 atm, have you seen any improvement to the colors compared to the previous version?
oh, I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing. Bit of a bummer!
I am using V5 and it's definitely the best one atm. You get free updates once purchased AFAIK
I am indeed using v5. That is the only one I have tried.
19:02 Hi Glenn, in the cinnamon teal photo which Topaz program are you using: I'm guessing the Sharpen Ai, but wanted to make sure.
It's DeNoise
@@jan_wegener Thanks a lot. It's the one I finally got, after trying out all of them 👍. That and DxO
HI guys! Loved your informative video; factual and helpful. I just quit using DPP for processing my RAW files, primarily because the program repeatedly failed to convert my edits into jpegs. So; I just got the LRc, Ps, LR suite for US$10.78/mo. So far, so good. I think that I will also get the DX Pure RAW and Color Fidelity Profiles software programs, based on your recommendations. I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts on me doing this as the best first added step to augmenting my Lightroom Suite. Thanks. I thoroughly enjoy what you two are doing with your new channel.
We can't tell you what to do, but that's what we are doing for now until we will find a better alternative or Adobe steps up their game :)
Glad you are enjoying the channel!
@@jan_wegener Thank you, Jan. Much appreciated!
Was hoping for a more in depth comparison between raw/craw as the title suggested. BTW CaptureOne is also availabe as one-time-buy Option. So no subsciption-only like Adobe …
Not much to compare really. Image quality is the same. cRAW is smaller and that brings some serious advantages.
Cheers!
The only difference I could see was when you underexpose low ISO images and pull them up a lot. then RAW was better. At higher ISO it behaved very similar. There's really not many arguments against cRAW and I will be using it more for high action as the buffer situation really seems to be the biggest difference. For normal stuff I will stick to RAW, since I am mostly using the electronic shutter and that is already 12 bit. But that decision is not really based on any logic other than me wanting to make sure I got the best quality just in case
Thanks for the tip to disable DxO PureRAW modules to prevent its oversharpening. Has either of you had a chance to compare it to ON1 NoNoise?
No worries. I have not tried that one.
Glad we could help. Does ON1 NN is applied before or after the RAW conversion. The good thing about DXO is that it creates a new DNG file. If we had to use ACR first and then denoise the image, we would already have all that bad ACR noise added to the image already. So to be able to use ACR, Pure RAW workflow is actually pretty good atm
@@jan_wegener It works on the .cr3, outputting a .dng, so it is the first thing. It also optionally applies selectable levels of sharpening and detail, and masking. I haven't used these so far, just the default .dng. I started using it before I learned from you how to eliminate the over-sharpening in DxO PureRAW.
@@DanDill Sounds like worthwhile to check out, thanks!
Great video, Jan and Glenn! I have DXO PureRAW and love it, but I find it takes quite a long time for it to process all my shots (1000+). Can you recommend a culling process to go through photos before starting PureRAW? Or do you cull in PureRAW? Thank you!
I am using FastStone Image viewer and Glenn breeze Browser to get rid of most photos. I only put the images through Pure RAW that I actually use. Pure RAw is very resource intensive, so a very fast computer speeds up the process a lot.
Yes you definitely want to delete like 99% of what you shoot before DXO. I use a program called Breezebrowser.
Use DXO Photolab instead of PR and you do not need to buy color fidelity profile. You can send your TIF file to Ps with nice colours.
Glad that's working out for you :-)
I have been trialling Photolab, but ended up preferring to use Pure Raw + ACR
Great video Jan, very informative! What software are you using to cull your photos?
Thank you! FastStone Image Viewer. It's free
Enjoying the new channel and videos. Quick question: what do you use to cull photos before putting them through DxO ?
I use FastStone Image Viewer. It works great for most cameras and is free. But you do need a camera that embeds full size Jpegs with the RAW files for it to work well. It doesn't work on Mac however.
I use a program called Breezebrowser Pro
@@jan_wegener Thanks. I'll give it a try
@@GlennBartley Thanks. I'll give it a try
Which of the Colorfidelity Profiles do you use? "Standard" or one of the others?
I've been using CF neutral V5
I like Standard for the most part :)
Another great one guys!!
Quick question, where could we find an R5 Color profile for Adobe camera Raw please?
Keep doing those chat please!!!
Here is the link - www.colorfidelity.com/
Ha! shoiuld've linked it
Very anxious to hear what you guys think about the new Adobe color profiles for the R5 ? This literally came out less than a week ago, and my R5 is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Might be perfect timing. I'd love to hear that you guys have tried it, and love it....
Check out this video.
czcams.com/video/vZgn8pOlsZ0/video.html
They're much better for sure.
@@jan_wegener Excellent ! TYSM :) Going to watch it now !
Great vid guys….A question have you seen Will Godlets colour profiles for the R5 and R6….??
Sorry Will Goodlet….czcams.com/video/N80xmVfGLNo/video.html
short answer no, but I will have a look
Ya those would be worth a try. We'll try to test them and report back...
@@GlennBartley excellent! I watched the video seems like he knows his stuff!!
@@jan_wegener cheers look forward to hear it seems they also compatible with Lightroom not sure if that is the case with the one you use?
Great series you two have started. I am on my second R5 now and that one is currently at Canon being fixed (the AF stopped working consistently and accurately). I am using the DXO Pure Raw as a trial basis and it is much quicker than DPP. Do appreciate your testing of this software. Thank You.
Glad you enjoyed the episode!
Doesn't sound like you are having much luck with the R5s. Glad you liked the show
For those that don't want to pay for another piece of software and would like to use their Adobe, there is a work around that makes things much better. You need to reverse all the garbage adjustments that Adobe have going on in the raw file, wether its R5 Or any other camera. Its these tone curve and other tonal adjustments that you can't see that are responsible for the extra noise, as well as overblown colour, in the supposedly " raw" file. You revert to an older version 2 processing version, zero all the adjustments which you can now see then go back to the latest process version. What you get now is a very flat, less saturated and lower noise file, the actual raw file. Getting the contrast and colour truly neutral is the best way to start your adjustments. A rainbow lorikeet is one of the best subjects for colour appraisal as it's a "memory colour" subject, if you're used to seeing them. I've processed an R5 file this way to day and its absolutely spot on, thrilled with how the "process version swap" preset I made has fixed the issue. Dpp does de mosaicing on Canon files maybe a bit better, but this Adobe work around is much less painful than dpp. I'm still going to try dxo pure raw as I want better noise reduction, I find topaz has too many artefacts. Just my 2 cents (or so) worth for anyone interested.
Sounds great. How did you revert back to an older version? Not entirely sure I follow there
@@jan_wegener czcams.com/video/XNlrQeRXjU0/video.html . Im a patron to this guy and he is by far the most knowledgeable person I've come across. His depth of knowledge right across all aspects of photography is genuinely astounding. In the second half of this vid he outlines his " process version swap". And why he does it. He first showed how to do it a couple of years back and I've even doing it ever since. Let me know what you think if you wouldn't mind. Cheers Jan.
Jan, In your workflow you mention Download > CULL. What is Cull? Also, considering the file size DXO create, what do you do to filter and remove bad images before converting the RAW in DXO to limit storage?
I only run the images I want to edit through DXO, which is like 0.1 % of what I photograph. culling just refers to deleting the images I don't want to keep.
Personally I don't keep the DXO DNGs. I just load them as my base layer in photoshop and that allows me to then delete the big dng
@@jan_wegener Thank you for the response. So what do you use to review the images for deletion? I will probably find the answer in your tutorial I purchased :-)
@@kikistoor8217 you will hehe. I use FastStone Image Viewer on windows and trialling Photomechanic on Mac
Loving this series, I typically use LR to cull images, how would this fit in with Pure Raw. Thanks again
If you look at the workflow graphic we presented you are basically just using LR instead of BB for culling.
Otherwise you can follow the workflow as we presented it.
I'd definitely recommend getting the free trial of Pure RAW to check out - link is in the description.
@@GlennBartley Thanks, fantastic new show! But what is BB?
Ah, found it. Thanks.
@@GlennBartley What is BB? Also, Jan speaks about a Color Fidelity profile. What is this?
@@christianbartholomew4019 what software is it?
Another question, Glenn you mention using DXO PR with images from the 40D. What colour profile do you use, as I could not find a Color Fidelity one?
I'm not Glenn, but for the old Canon cameras, the normal Adobe profiles work just fine.
It's just the newer models, they don't support well.
@@jan_wegener Thanks. Brilliant idea that you two are in different time-zones, to give us 24 hour coverage :-)
@@jan_wegener Also, would a 7D MkII count as an old or new model, requiring the Fidelity profile? (There is one available, but if I could save $25!)
@@daviddigby5122 you wouldn't need one. Only for R5/R6
Ya for the older files I just used the Adobe colour.
Great content. I would be interested to know if you and Glenn process in 16 bit and how you save those files as you import and export between different programs in your workflow. Is bit depth important to you? How does each program deal with using 16 bit files and what formats each requires. Do these work well with each other? It seems that everything defaults to 8 bit when files are opened. Could you address this if it's important to your workflow? Thanks!
When converting from ACR I always use 16 bit. The final edited tif stays as 16bit. Jpgs go to 8 bit.
Cheers!
always 16 bit for me. Import as 16 bit, save 16 bit PSD with all layers, then save separate file for web
Wonder why didnt you try dxo photolab 4 with the deepprime module and You can do edithing like the lightroom.
Just not keen on replacing acr... Just need the pre processing step.
I have trialled it and in the end didn't feel like the workflow was better than just using Pure RAW and ACR.
I understand. I thought that if You have the, photolab 4 and multi customise options, you can adjust to your needs and some Times replace the need of using acr or the lr. I noticed also that you can make your own presets of the chosen options like excluding the lens corrections options, colour style. It has also some ala color fidelity profiles.
@@thomasbednarowski1651 Yes, it wasn't bad, just a lot of new things to get used to and that made me prefer my current workflow
Hallo Jan I am wondering why you dont use fill in Flash anymore since you are using the R5 greetings Marius form Holland
There's a few reasons. Firstly the high frame rate. The flash just cannot keep up in High Speed mode. Secondly I don't feel like I need it as much anymore, as you can easier edit the image without flash. Thirdly with silent shutter now, the flash becomes the single most likely source to spook a bird. Before the shutter sound was much worse than the flash. With that gone, the flash becomes a bit more of a potential bird spooker.
Are you using a specific product for viewing and culling your images?
I am using Fast Stone Image Viewer. It's free and really good!
Surely the real issue with processing in post is the problem that seems to be between Canon and Adobe, isn’t it really something that Adobe owes to it’s Canon subscribers to fix, otherwise Canon users might indeed start to jump ship for other programs.
I agree....It would be nice if they just solved the issue. But in the meantime...
It's also crazy that Adobe doesn't have a decent program to quickly compare and cull images. Like Bridge is useless and could easily be a program like Breezebrowser or Faststone image viewer.
Any other complaints with Adobe guys???
One would certainly think so. But having used the A1 lately. It's just as bad.
I am hearing for the first time about the issue with the R5 raw file and how Adobe handles it. However your video which I just listened to was made in July of 2021and now it is September of 2022, just over a year later. Is this issue still present today? Is it just as bad or has the issue improved some?
Hi Jan,
Always great to see your video's and tips. Certenly very educating for enthousiast birding starter like me. Question, just very recently using dxo pureraw. So i understand you prefer disable to module for lens because it's oversharp. Now i agree it's a bit hard shap, but also very noisefree is the sharpening. I have a hard time to get this noisefree sharpening in lightroom or photoshop. About my sharpening workflow, in LR is use the sharpening mask, and in PS just the highpass filter. My lens is currently the rf800 for birds. Could you see if you can make a short tutorial maybe about sharpening?
It also depends on the lens combination and the images. For my 600mm prime lens it picks the wrong profile, for your 800 it will pick the right one, so the sharpening might be ok.
I guess the only way to not add more noise with sharpening would be to do it in PS and masked out the background so only the bird is sharpened
What do you use for culling photos?
FastStone Image Viewer. Fast and free, but not available for Mac
And I use Breezebrowser....also not available for Mac
I know you talked about frame rate with craw vs raw, but did you find any difference in image quality? Much appreciated
I see absolutely no difference whatsoever in image quality. I did some tests when I first got the camera.
For me its a no brainer to use cRAW.
I also use CRAW (and PureRAW) and i am a pixel peeper, no problems whatsoever. Especially if you want to use PureRAW, which creates big file sizes, you will be glad that the originals (the CRAWs) aren't so big.
There's generally no obvious difference. Only really at lower ISO and if you pull up the images a lot.
I always delete the Pure RAW DNGs once I have my psd file saved in Photoshop, so that saves a bit of space.
My work flow with my R5 is to default denoinse the chrominance channel (removes colour blotches) in dpp, and set the luminance denoise off (preserves detail), and absolutely sharpening off in DPP. The DPP .tiff output file now has fine pin prick, sized noise structure that is easily removed (I use noiseware) even at higher isos. For very high isos sum the pixels in DPP, ie out put in half hight and half width when exporting to .tiff. This process really does give one stop better noise performance.
From my initial tests, CRAW doesnt seem to have the same fine pinprick pixel sized noise structure, and thus doesnt denoise as cleanly at higher isos, eg, 6400 and above, thus I do not use CRAW.
Using a 512MB Sandisk CFexpress b card, I can shoot 109 images straight at 12fps mechanical before the buffer is filled, at full sized RAW plus 2nd to biggest jpeg. Note, this card was tested as the fastest card to clear the R5 buffer, so a tiny pause, and you are good to go again. Note also that this 512MB card is significantly faster in testing than the smaller versions, regardless what Sandisk claims.
The 16bit .tiff output from DPP is 260MB eitherway, regardless whether you use RAW or CRAW, so nothing really to be gained by using CRAW.
If there was truley no difference in image quality between RAW and CRAW, Canon would only give you CRAW.
Thanks so much to both of you. So helpful. I know you both use 600 mm lenses on tripods. But for those of us getting on a bit who are finding lugging it all just too much, what lens would you suggest for the R5 to get enough reach and be possible to hand-hold. Thanks so much Jonathan
By the way, it’s not cost that is the issue but weight
And the need to get big enough apertures for lowish light!!
I think I'd be strongly tempted by this one - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547011-REG/canon_rf_100_500mm_f_4_6_3l_is.html/BI/7954/KBID/8450
100-500 or 11/800 would be my choices. Very different lenses, so it depends what you want to get out of it. The 800 is a bit limited, but the price is extremely attractive
Then I would most likely go for 100-500.
I don't know about Pure Raw, but Topaz has been changing a LOT lately. It seems to do way less over-sharpen-ing and artifact-ing now.
Ya they are always tweaking things. Its sometimes annoying that it always wants to update...but at the same time if they are improving the program you cant really fault them...
The advantage of Pure RAW is that you can apply it to the RAW file prior to opening it in ACR, so ACR cannot apply any noise to the file, because it's smooth when it comes out of Pure RAW. With Topaz I have to open the file first.
Great that they are improving it, tho!
Hi Jan, dont really know how to reach you so I am trying asking you a question in this outstanding vidéo. Here I go.
I bought the BPS PROSETS - Bundle Pack including Jack of all trade Preset and all the others. Now I have imported them into my Lightroom Classic 11.4.1 on my MacOS Big Sur 11.6 IMac desktop. Here the problem I have, Once imported into Lightroom the Proset dont show up just like you said, but I dont see them in the list of my Preset in order to select them in to my favorites ?
Can you Help...
send you an email
Hi Jan... In the new workflow you introduced DxO PR. Will this give good stating point for CR3 files coming out of Canon EOS R5 camera, and I don't need to run the RAW file in DPP before getting it into Lightroom or ACR+Photoshop?
If this is true, then I can buy DxOPR.
Do I have to also buy Color Fidelity Profiles?
No, I don't use them anymore, only my own ones now :)
Yes, I run the RAW through Pure RAW and then use ACR + PS to edit. No more DPP
Hi Jan. I tried DxO demo and it has trouble working on my computer. After processing the thumbnail is blank? very frustrating. Enjoy you two very much thanks.
What happens when you try and open the file?
If you have a very old graphics card the program may not be able to work.
@@jan_wegener still blank. I uninstalled and reinstalled and somehow its working but very slow.
@@GlennBartley computer is only 3 years old.
@@rentoulzz strange, is your computer quite old?
It's very fast on my new maschine, but was a lot slower on my previous one
Why not use DxO Photolab 5?
I like Pure Raw for denoising, but like ACR for the better workflow
Have you tested Topaz Denoise AI with the latest updates? I personally find it does better than DXO
I usually update it when it comes out, even tho it always takes ages to install.
The main thing for Glenn and me now is that Pure RAW allows us to apply NR before we add the image to ACR, eliminating any noise ACR could mess with. Glenn still use topaz afterwards when within PS.
What program do you use to cull your images before going to DXO?
FastStone Image Viewer on PC
Hi Guys. Thanks heaps as I've already learnt a lot from the many videos you both have available. I'm retired now so I get to spend good time in the bush chasing birds. In the last couple of years I have become a keen bird photographer. I use Lightroom Classic and am really happy with the results. I've just purchased DXO and Topaz denoise and the results are amazing. The question I have relates to ACR and Lightroom and the colour fidelity profiles (I've just added these into Lightroom). Is ACR part of Lightroom rather than a plugin or separate software. If it is part of lightroom do I import my dng files from DXO straight into Lightroom and process the photos as I have in the past and experiment with the colour fidelity profiles and Topaz denoise.
Cheers Bruce
Fantastic to hear Bruce. ACR is the RAW processing engine of Photoshop and very similar to LR, but completely separate to it. So you can just load the profiles into LR and edit the Pure RAW DNGs in LR.
Jan, do you always use Deep Prime mode in DXO. I processed 20 photos (culled from 100 photos) from my R6 earlier today and it took over 2 hours. In a sense it doesn't matter as I can leave it overnight but it did surprise me. Cheers Bruce
@@brucewatts2249 I always leave it in Deep Prime. Speed will depend entirely on your computer and graphics card.
@@brucewatts2249 I just ran 20 files to test and it took less than 2 minutes. On my old computer it took much longer as well. On this new one it's very fast.
@@jan_wegener My laptop is not shabby but it is a couple of years old which makes it technically due for the pension. If possible can you provide make and model etc of the new computer. Thanks
Hi Jan, after you import the PureRaw DNG into Lightroom, how do you change the profile to Color Fidelity? When I import to Lightroom, the profiles are available and the profile type chosen is "embedded" and I can't seem to change it. Any tips?
Hey,
that's odd. When you are in the develop tab, it doesn't show the dropdown menu?
You might have to make the profiles a favourite to show in the list?
Great show guys, really appreciate the content. I have a question regarding your buffer tests using a CF Express card vs SD card & RAW vs C-RAW, what class & rating was the SD card? UHS l or ll ? V30 or V60 or V90 would love to know. Keep up the great work. Jean-Louis
I believe it was a Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-II V90 card
@@jan_wegener Thank you, very much appreciate the feedback.
My camera never reached that speed at f8. I try to do some bird pics in Ireland :DDDD
AF speed?
@@jan_wegener Oh, i meant shutter speed. ISO 3200 usually yields something around 1/1000 :D
@@oleggontar2942 ha, makes sense now. Dark place
All the more reason to get some new noise removal tricks as we discuss in this episode :-)
@@jan_wegener And than obviously everything goes down from there. But - given my post processing capabilities are terrible - I use DXO as well. Its denoising saves lot of pictures for me! So happy to hear more about it.
Sorry to go off topic but I have a question.
I'm still very new to my R5 and havent got out in the wild with it yet, only testing indoors with a toy owl about 30cm high sitting on a table so when I do get out I'll be prepared!
I've seen quite a few comments about AF tracking not being able to focus properly on the intended subject and have experienced the same using an RF600mm in low light when contrast is poor which is to be expected.
I read a forum comment saying that focussing was helped by changing to 1.6 crop and have found the same improvement. I've also customised my movie button to select shooting area options so I can change beween full and crop reasonably quickly although I would prefer to be able to toggle full or crop but I dont think that's possible.
Assuming the subject is in the distance making focus difficult and that you would crop in post, I think it might be better to use crop mode in those situations.
Was wondering what your thoughts are?
I don't use the crop mode much, but because it zooms in, it can help you to find and easier focus on the bird in the viewfinder.
Which situations are you referring to when you say the R5 is not being able to focus on the intended target? Do you mean when it gets stuck on the background>
@@jan_wegener Yes, sometimes I'm finding it difficult to focus on a smaller subject when it gets stuck on the background. Same when using the full area and narrow or single AF point it can miss a smaller subject unlike my previous DSLR's but its only when there's no definition to lock onto against a busy background.
I'm sure it's a learning curve and nothing to worry about :)
@@v8gtr It's an issue for all mirrorless cameras. Their AF systems work different, so they can get stuck on the background easier
Interesting.. I found out that the PhotoLab 4 has the same functions and there you can choose to adjust the settings. Watch "Replacing DxO PureRAW with DxO PhotoLab 4 Elite
" and you will see! :D its better option than the Dxo Pure RAW
Glad that's working for you!
@@GlennBartley You should try it. It's the same functionality.. but you can control the strength of it :) so if the noise reduction or sharpening is to aggressive, you an adjust that. Or only apply noise reduction.
@@GlennBartley Just to be clear. The DxO pure raw = DxO PhotoLab 4 (Deep Prime)
I have used Photo Lab and ended up preferring to use Pure RAW + ACR
@@jan_wegener What makes you prefer the Pure RAW over the Photo Lab? :)
What lens do you recommend for someone who's wanting to try bird photography that doesn't break the bank? I have the Canon r6. Also are prime lenses better for a beginner?
Well you have a great camera body so that's awesome.
For a lens I think I'd either go for the RF 100-500 if it is in the budget - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547011-REG/canon_rf_100_500mm_f_4_6_3l_is.html/BI/7954/KBID/8450
Or
If you want to spend a bit less then maybe one of the super zooms from Sigma or Tamron - www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1636755-REG/tamron_afa057s_700_150_500mm_f_5_6_7_di_iii.html/BI/7954/KBID/8450
@@GlennBartley thank you for the reply! I was actually looking at all of those. Have you had any experience with the rf 800 f11?
I made a video about them.
czcams.com/video/0opsVl9C35g/video.html
Quite amazing lenses for the price! Cheapest and best way to get to 800mm on Canon
We will talk about lenses in a future video. Primes are generally better, but also more expensive and generally heavier.
On an R6 I would probably look at 100-500 (expensive, but amazing) or 100-400 EF with adapter. The Sigmas & Tamrons are good, but struggle a bit on the mirrorless Canons when it comes to communication and stabilisation.
As you said below, the 11/800 could be a very nice inexpensive option with some limitations.
where do you get your camouflage from?
Lenscoat. There's a link down in the description, but also many other shops have them.
Thanks guys for another great video filled with information. I’m wildlife but mostly bird photographer and I’m having some trouble with my post process work flow.. I got rid of Adobe and creative cloud … I do have Topaz denoise & sharpen…. Soo I’m now kind of stuck here with my SD cards piling up and not getting any images out there… any1 out there with any advice or of course from Jan …. & crew . THANKS
At this stage I don't see a great way to edit photos without Adobe, there might be some, but not sure they'd be better or equal. Are you using any programs atm?
Is it possible to use Lightroom instead of camera raw in the workflow?
You can, LR and ACR share the same RAW processing engine.
Yes LR and ACR are basically the exact same for RAW files.
Which image is better RAW or cRAW
it's almost the same in normal lighting conditions
@@jan_wegener thanks
I enjoyed your previous videos. This one not so much. Is this his channel or yours?
It's my channel and I do The Bird Photography Show with Glenn on here as well. Just mixing it up so everyone has videos they like :)
Geez Cidron....something I said?? 🤣
@@GlennBartley Always some one complaining
why you are guys using so many different programs to process your images? Isn't working with lightroom much faster and easier? Maybe you can show us some examples and compare them for us?
greeting from germany ;)
Because LR does an awful job with the newer mirrorless files. :)
I showed some samples in an older video, where I edited a rosella
Thanks :)