This is a great video, I have owned all 3 brands over the years. My 2 sets of SRAM/Avid both failed on me and I swore to never buy another set. My next 4 sets of brakes were all Shimano (XT, Saints and Zee) I loved them, super easy to bleed and never failed. The XT's became a little weak as I got better and rode faster and once I upgraded to 4 piston Saints and Zees all those issues were gone. The most recent bike I built up last year I decided to get Hope V4 brakes (DH brakes). At first I wasn't happy, they didn't grab properly and the Pistons didn't push out evenly. I did alot of research and found out that the Hopes need to be lined up perfectly straight with the rotors in order to work properly. So once I put on new brake pads and re alligned the brakes to the rotors they were by far the best brakes I have ever ridden. My Hopes are stronger than my Zees that are on my DH bike and have much better modulation. I think the biggest noticable difference for me is on the long steep descents where my Shimanos would get weak. My Hopes never have brake fade on the same trails. I think that it's possible your Hope brakes were not set up perfectly or maybe the V4 are just that much more powerful than the E4. Not sure but regardless, thanks for the honest review.
I bought a second hand set of Hope tech V4's and replaced every single seal, flat o ring, hosing, banjos and even all new pistons, I did a full overhaul them! and i had the same exact aligning issues, the pistons simply did not push out evenly at first, i found that after every ride i had to keep re-aligning my calipers... at first i tried to manually line up the pistons so they were even on each side but then then would just gradually becoming uneven again, but then i kept riding my bike and kept re-aligning the calipers and i found after a certain amount of time the pistons would eventually even up on both sides by themselves and i didn't did align them again after that, and now they are really powerful and feel great! i think you need to have patience with them to get them broken in and running properly, so i think less mechanically minded riders need to be wary if they aren't confident in working with brakes.
@@Sefveron wow that's interesting, I have a few friends with Hope E4 brakes and none of them had the same issue as I did. I personally think It maybe an issue only with a V4 brake caliper on a regular size rotor. Do you have the V4 vented rotors? Or regular Hope rotors? The V4 vented rotors are basically 2 rotors sandwich together like Moto brakes which help with cooling. They are much thicker that's why the V4 calipers have such a wide gap. So I think when using regular Hope Rotors like I have it can cause more issues for the Pistons if not lined up perfectly.
Yes that may make sense, if they are designed for use with the vented rotor then they won't need to come out as far... i personally don't use the hope rotors i just use some generic stainless ones which work great.
You are one of my favorite reviewers. I think you are really fair in your praise and criticism. And it feels like your reviews are not influenced by the manufacturers or advertising. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the informative comments. I gave up SRAM for reliability reason, had multiple jams with master cylinder and adjuster screw breakage. I noticed Code RSC inherited many of previous design features therefore do not believe there will be significant improvement on reliability. Recently change to Hope e4 and I tends to agree with your comment about Hope's stopping power, also its mounts has slight interference with my SRAM X7 trigger shifter. Had no experience with Shimano MTB brakes but I do use Shimano disc brakes on my roadbike and they are reliable and easy to maintain.
Thanks for the info FLOW Shimano XT vs SRAM code R, hello to whoever is interested in my experience. I have had XT and currently I’m ridding code R, if I knew what I know now I would have replaced the code R directly on my new bike for the XT BR-M8020 (or Magura MT7 little bit overkill for me). I have had zero problems for 3 years with my XT and now ridding code R for 4 months I’m almost at the point of replacing them. So why: They just do not quite functionate as how a good set of disc brakes should + pour material quality, rotors rust, cheap paint, oversized components, (DIY) unfriendly to work one, never quite the result you where hoping for after some tlc and so long. My girlfriend rides SLX for over 2 years and are in better condition than my code R, we ride 95% of the times together. I hope that I saved some people from wasting their time, money and frustration. Something about myself I’m a perfectionist very technical skilled and realistic. (Last summer in Austria a DH bike rental place told us they replace all Sram brakes directly and sell them for dirt cheap new, they just do not want to bother using them. That should have been a motivation for me to replace them directly but I did not, regrets big time.) Thanks for the tech info GMBN
Once I watched hopes set up videos I had them dialed in absolutely perfect, unfortunately they are a bit more involved but once set up correctly they’ll work a treat
I still have a set of the original Shimano XT, with the same 203/180 rotors, I've had these for 25 years, still riding them. They have spent the majority of their lives on my Specialized Big Hit at the slopes downhilling. Cant complain at all
I agree, however there is one severe case condition: Yes, even my br m365s were capable of otb ejection. However to do so required clinging on to them like your life depended on it, which isn't fun if you are going down the mountain, knowing "If i go any faster, i won't be able to stop again today", esp. if you need to do so for more than 3 minutes straight...
I've recently switched to the M8020's and am loving them so far, just be aware if you go for the caliper only option, you will need to buy new banjo bolts to suit as the one on the 2-pot XT caliper is different to that on the 4-pot XT/saint. Great roundup of these brakes, keep up the awesome content.
I personally have to say I’m a sram code guy. I had Shimano xrt on my bike and and rode a friends with codes. Soon after I had them on my bike. They have at least as good power but they have modulation. Huge improvement in my opinion.
Magura is Plastic Garbage. Brakes makes twice as much Noise then all the Others togetger. There Bad to Adjust and Bad to Bleed. They also have this wierd flex feeling while Braking. The Levers Brakes often and theyre often leaking And they are way Overpriced.
I run hope brakes for a few years now and all I can say is that they’re the best brakes I’ve ever ridden with. Never had any problems with losing brake pressure, the brakes are always working at the same amount of brake lever pull
I have a set of the hopes. Awesome light brakes with loads of modulation and power. Amazing they are so good compared to the corporate powerhouses. SRAM and Shinano are everywhere because they are often spec'ed on new bikes.
Remember hope made some of the first mtb disc brakes, you see some sets that are 10+ years old that still work and people pay good money for them, proper high quality stuff
Shimano has an under the radar 4 pot caliper in the MT520 its almost the same as the XT but without the price and free stroke adjustment. its a great brake for entry level trail bikes.
Just out of warranty and my XT 8000 rear just packed it in (sucking air somewhere in the system) thinking of replacing them - just not sure with which, the 8020 or the MT520? Or go all in, and upgrade front and back. Running 180mm up front and back.
Graptos i have the old xt (8000) to … the mt520 seems the alternative to saint if i upgrade … or trickstuff direttissima if budget wouldnˋt be an issue
XT dual piston overkill for the average enduro rider, perfect for the enduro racer! At 174lbs, they were flawless on 203/180mm rotors on muddy wet Tiger mtn,wa last week. Worth every penny!
Piston size on the Saint are a bit larger than the XTs, the XTs use a 15/17 mm caliper while the Saints/Zeee use 16/18mm calipers. Bought a set of M8020 front and rear for just above 250 USD, id say it was a steal.
Cheers for the video, just the one i needed as my magura 2 pots boil over and dont have the bite my old 4 pots had back in the last 90s so i needed some info - and youve convinced me that I need the XTs.
I've tried various Shimano brakes, SRAM Guides (R and RSC) and Hope E4s, but honestly the TRP Quadiems are better than any of them. SRAM/Hope modualation with Shimano power and bleed procedure. And they look blingy too. The TRP matchmakers aren't great but I'll happily run 22.2mm clamps on my dropper and shifter if it means having brakes this good.
Take some time to set up the Hopes properly and make sure everything is centred and they are stunning.I have been using them for around 25 years,I can’t even remember when they first started making them.A good upgrade is to rebleed them with high temperature racing brake fluid.Brake fade becomes a thing of the past.I agree they lack absolute braking power compared to some but they have more control and modulation than virtually everything else and off road ( in my opinion) that is a bigger factor than ultimate power which can result in a lock up on loose surfaces.
I've run Hopes for years now I still have several OG sets on diff bikes including Minis, XC4's, MonoM4s w/custom Mini/Dangerboy levers and a cpl of Mono 6 TI calipers on Tech 3 and Mini/Dangerboy levers .. even a wheelset w/ their Titanium hubs with center lock rotors from 20 + yrs ago lol.. not always the most powerful but plenty powerful to lock a wheel almost any time and the modulation to make sure you virtually never do....;-) I'm running a set I jonesed over for a cpl years : V4 front/203mm rotor & E4 rear /183mm rotor the V4 runs a bigger caliper, bigger pistons + pads it has significantly more power. Vs the E4. I'd figured, as a bigger guy, that combo would be perfect plus, I "overbrake" my bikes as a rule lol. (Mono 6 TI ! ) I got lucky and found a fresh set barely used on ebay, saved a ton. The shimanos and srams ive ridden on other bikes are pretty amazing brakes these days its stunning how fast it has all become so refined. Bottom line, you really can't go wrong, they all kick some ass. wen I grow up imma get me some Maxima / Diretissima brakes....
I rock a tech 3 v4 up front and a tech3 e4 in the rear. Perfect 👌 amount of modulation and power .. my santa cruz 5010cc v3 stops on a dime and gives back change.
Having returned to biking after a 16 year break, it’s amazing how SRAM has come from nowhere and is dominating the field. I bought 3 top of the line bikes and all came standard with full SRAM group sets. How did Shimano lose their lead so badly?!
I also had some of the new SLX brakes and sold them as soon as possible and got myself a set of Formula The One. Serious inconsistency with the new line of brakes. Awkward that almost all of my friends ride Saints and Zees and say the same regarding lever feel, but they say you just need to pump a few times before braking and you'll be good.
Complete opposite for me and I love sram Eagle drivetrain.. However the brakes have been lackluster, noisy and just don't cut it compared to Shimano.. The new Saint 4 piston are the pinnacle
Its mainly because Sram made a 12 speed while shimano didnt offered one yet while it was the new trend. Then, many bike brands decided to go with those 12 speed drive train, Rockshock suspension and Sram Brakes in the same time as deals for all products were better. That is why you now see much more Lyriks and Sram components on complete bikes. That being said, Shimano now has a 12 speed. Hopefully, things will be different from now on!
My top 5, but with their flaws included: 1. Trickstuff Maxima or Direttissima (too expensive and the wait list is too long for delivery) 2. Formula Cura 4 (they have an odd break-in period, so odd in fact... that riders dismiss them before experiencing their power) 3. Magura MT7 (flimsy levers) 4. Shimano SLX 4 piston (no one gives them a chance, so they live in the shadows of the XTs, ZEEs, Saints, and XTRs) 5. SRAM Codes, Formula Cura, and Hope V4s (they’re all in 5th place for reasons of “feel”, 2-pistons, or cost/power ratio)
Ive ridden Saints, XTs, Sram and now Formula Curas. The Curas are the best ive ridden- as strong as the others but better Modulation, cheaper, reliable and the lever is the most comfortable. For 200-220€ for a full set with disc you wont find a better brake.
Seems like the Code is the only one marketed as a "full on" downhill brake so you would expect it to be stronger. Shimano Saint and Hope Tech 3 V4 would be the equivalents, and the SRAM Guide RSC would/should be on the same level as the XT and E4. Pity you couldn't get a Magura in. My MT5s are good but need fairly frequent bleeding.
Don’t run the floating hope rotors, run the standard style, not only do the floating rotors warp easily they are also slightly spaced to far outward of the perfect rotor alignment.
With the finned brake pads and the rattling, ride them for a bit. Take the pads out and you'll see where they're contacting the caliper to produce the rattle. Sand/abrade the spot(s) and apply a THIN layer of high temp automotive silicone. Let cure, reinstall, no rattle.
How would you know unless your unwrapping your presents and peaking, then wrapping them back up. If she told you, then she should have made you wait until Christmas
Ive always got a back up brake installed on my bike. I once had a brake lever snap on me and since then ive got disc and an additional rim brake installed on the back.
with shimano M6000 I had to refill brakes with fluid if pads got bit worn, and still have plenty of life in them, but I gave up on shimano after a streak of bad luck, I have enough, so many leaking brakes I am done with it. I am currently using TRP Spyke dual piston mechanical brakes, but I might return to hydraulic if I find a break I am satisfied with, but I have TRP Spyke as spare, what ever I try in the future.
well that was an impressive video. thanks for that. im interested in magura so hopefully one day you'll review them. i like mineral oil brakes so it's between shimano and magura for me.
Also hope have better mount adapters. Imo the dished washers are shitty and you are bolting through into your PM on the fork with 1 set of bolts whilst heavier hopes way of bolt the adapter to the fork then the caliper to the adapter removes any undue stresses as everything is cleanly bolted in.. setup is easy just follow the guide center the caliper then center the pistons, modulation... i like modulation, you have lever movement for a reason otherwise it might as well be an on off switch. Hopes have that predictably over the whole lever movement.. the harder you squeeze the faster you stop, you cant have too much braking, never had a problem with hopes, split calipers however why would you do that if not for cost, hopes remove that failure point and a couple of bolts in the process, those bolts are the extra ones used to bolt your caliper too the adapter so weight for weight are probably comparable,.....
Formula? They make some absolutely top level stuff. The Selva, Nero and 35 are more that able to compete with top Level RS and Fox forks. Same goes for the brakes. The Cura 2 and 4 piston brakes are really powerful and probably the best feeling brakes on the market. Modulation and price are also amazing.
Hadn't really heard of Formula's brakes. The only problem ... not a lot of feedback on them from the market, so I really have no reason to try them over widely proven products, like XT. Especially at the $150 price-point for four piston. They're at the same price point as TRP Quadiems. I just can't see guinea pigging Formula brakes over some of these others. Frankly, for the money, Shimano Zee is an amazing brake for $120 per end.
I'm perfectly happy with my Sram Guides. I'm pretty sure most of the people saying sram sucks are just regurgitating shit they hear their idols saying.
yeah had some quality issues, but most of that was recalled and now it's not really an issue. I run sram code, and had sram guides before that, they were actually more reliable than my old shimano XTs which I ended up having to bleed more often and ultimately the master cylinder started getting stuck, ultimately I swapped the XTs for guides and ended up liking them more all around.
My xt 4 change when they heat up, they start screeching and vibrate badly back through the brake line, I don't trust them at high speed, the hope 9 fells better and that's an old brake.
i have saint. its good but i shift to hope and its better, and i change to TRP quadiem and its perfect.. sram breaks IS the WORST break for me. thank you
I prefer the Hope Tech E4’s on a personal note. Currently running the shimano xt’s n Im constantly having to bleed thwm why is thais? May go back to E4’s on my new orbea rallon m10 good vid by the way
Hope are overpriced and overrated. Bought them for bike park riding and sooo disappointed. Have Saints now much better for full on bite . Must be a UK thing just don’t see them in Canada and not well liked
Hm. I like my Zees. Great anchors, esp. for the money i spent on them (ridiculously low price), also, on brakes i don't mind a bit of extra weight. Hope's offering looks kinda flimsy compared to the XT caliper. Of course, the Codes are insanely sleek, but for some reason i like the braced, rounded look of the mt5s calipers best. A bitch to clean, however. Yeh, i like my zees. The fact that i run them on a 12kg xc bike with 180 mm rotors and weigh about 70 kgs with clothes... eh i'm fine with that. Knowing that if i ever need to stop RIGHT NOW, i can. Oh, also great for doing stoppie to nothing to faceplant to flat. Ask me how i know...
Do you know if the SRAM Code RSC callipers can be combined with the Sram Force (eTap AXS) and other Sram dropbar grips (as Hope RX4 can, for instance)? Thank you.
I think its unfair, because the code is the dh brake and the xt the trail brake, so you need a saint or the guide. So its unfair to say wich is better.
Hi. I need some a lil advise from you guys. I wanted to get the hope tech3 e4 coz i need a better modulation from my pivot mach6. And what size of rotors that are perfect on this one? Thanks
I'm sorry but in my opinion Japanese forged XT's look way more appealing to me then cheap cnc'ed ones, no matter how beautiful the colours are (and they are). Is anyone with me?
No Magura MT5/MT7, Tektro/TRP Slate or TRP G-Spec Quadriem? I prefer the Magura brakes myself (with the polished MT7 trails looking very good) as you can register them to get a 5 year leak-proof warranty (the only company to do this as far as I know)! As far as I'm concerned the SRAM brakes are no better than the old Avids (they're just re-branded), as they are annoying to bleed and have limited lifespan. Everyone I know that have used the SRAM brakes for a couple of years end up having problems with them, despite loving them when they're new (just like everyone did with Avid). I have a set of Hope Race X2 brakes that are 4 years old now, and have never had any problems with them. Also if you want problem-free brakes then don't use the floating rotors. All that happens is that the rivets eventually loosen up, and you have to replace the rotor long before it wears out. The performance difference in braking (and the weight saving) isn't worth the cost, or the reduction in reliability, in my opinion.
After having 5 sets of Avid/SRAM brakes fail (they were spec'd on new bikes) and ruin rides and vacations, I'll never buy a Sram/Avid brake again. You can't go wrong with Shimano.
hy! cool video . you compare brakes who runs on 26kilo E-Bikes. the Hope brakes are not so agressive when cool. they need to be HOT to be agressive. the sram and shimanos are agressive when cool . when they are hot. you dont have brakes ;)
This is a great video, I have owned all 3 brands over the years. My 2 sets of SRAM/Avid both failed on me and I swore to never buy another set. My next 4 sets of brakes were all Shimano (XT, Saints and Zee) I loved them, super easy to bleed and never failed. The XT's became a little weak as I got better and rode faster and once I upgraded to 4 piston Saints and Zees all those issues were gone.
The most recent bike I built up last year I decided to get Hope V4 brakes (DH brakes). At first I wasn't happy, they didn't grab properly and the Pistons didn't push out evenly. I did alot of research and found out that the Hopes need to be lined up perfectly straight with the rotors in order to work properly. So once I put on new brake pads and re alligned the brakes to the rotors they were by far the best brakes I have ever ridden. My Hopes are stronger than my Zees that are on my DH bike and have much better modulation. I think the biggest noticable difference for me is on the long steep descents where my Shimanos would get weak. My Hopes never have brake fade on the same trails.
I think that it's possible your Hope brakes were not set up perfectly or maybe the V4 are just that much more powerful than the E4. Not sure but regardless, thanks for the honest review.
I bought a second hand set of Hope tech V4's and replaced every single seal, flat o ring, hosing, banjos and even all new pistons, I did a full overhaul them! and i had the same exact aligning issues, the pistons simply did not push out evenly at first, i found that after every ride i had to keep re-aligning my calipers... at first i tried to manually line up the pistons so they were even on each side but then then would just gradually becoming uneven again, but then i kept riding my bike and kept re-aligning the calipers and i found after a certain amount of time the pistons would eventually even up on both sides by themselves and i didn't did align them again after that, and now they are really powerful and feel great! i think you need to have patience with them to get them broken in and running properly, so i think less mechanically minded riders need to be wary if they aren't confident in working with brakes.
@@Sefveron wow that's interesting, I have a few friends with Hope E4 brakes and none of them had the same issue as I did.
I personally think It maybe an issue only with a V4 brake caliper on a regular size rotor. Do you have the V4 vented rotors? Or regular Hope rotors? The V4 vented rotors are basically 2 rotors sandwich together like Moto brakes which help with cooling. They are much thicker that's why the V4 calipers have such a wide gap. So I think when using regular Hope Rotors like I have it can cause more issues for the Pistons if not lined up perfectly.
Yes that may make sense, if they are designed for use with the vented rotor then they won't need to come out as far... i personally don't use the hope rotors i just use some generic stainless ones which work great.
so the best is hope?
@@lsent3338 it's all personal preference, but for me definitely Hope are the best
Guy Martin crossed with mark Webber?
Fookin' NAILED IT!
Lol.
hahahaha made my day mate
Holy crap, now that you say it! XD
Yep
This is the first comment I saw and I was thinking the same thing the whole video😂😂😂
You are one of my favorite reviewers. I think you are really fair in your praise and criticism. And it feels like your reviews are not influenced by the manufacturers or advertising. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the informative comments. I gave up SRAM for reliability reason, had multiple jams with master cylinder and adjuster screw breakage. I noticed Code RSC inherited many of previous design features therefore do not believe there will be significant improvement on reliability. Recently change to Hope e4 and I tends to agree with your comment about Hope's stopping power, also its mounts has slight interference with my SRAM X7 trigger shifter. Had no experience with Shimano MTB brakes but I do use Shimano disc brakes on my roadbike and they are reliable and easy to maintain.
Thanks for the info FLOW
Shimano XT vs SRAM code R, hello to whoever is interested in
my experience. I have had XT and currently I’m ridding code R, if I knew what I
know now I would have replaced the code R directly on my new bike for the XT
BR-M8020 (or Magura MT7 little bit overkill for me). I have had zero problems
for 3 years with my XT and now ridding code R for 4 months I’m almost at the
point of replacing them. So why: They just do not quite functionate as how a
good set of disc brakes should + pour material quality, rotors rust, cheap
paint, oversized components, (DIY) unfriendly to work one, never quite the
result you where hoping for after some tlc and so long. My girlfriend rides SLX
for over 2 years and are in better condition than my code R, we ride 95% of the
times together. I hope that I saved some people from wasting their time, money
and frustration. Something about myself I’m a perfectionist very technical
skilled and realistic. (Last summer in Austria a DH bike rental place told us they
replace all Sram brakes directly and sell them for dirt cheap new, they just do
not want to bother using them. That should have been a motivation for me to
replace them directly but I did not, regrets big time.)
Thanks for the tech info GMBN
Thank you so much for such a good input
Once I watched hopes set up videos I had them dialed in absolutely perfect, unfortunately they are a bit more involved but once set up correctly they’ll work a treat
I still have a set of the original Shimano XT, with the same 203/180 rotors, I've had these for 25 years, still riding them. They have spent the majority of their lives on my Specialized Big Hit at the slopes downhilling. Cant complain at all
If it can make me go over the bars then it is powerful enough...
I agree, however there is one severe case condition: Yes, even my br m365s were capable of otb ejection. However to do so required clinging on to them like your life depended on it, which isn't fun if you are going down the mountain, knowing "If i go any faster, i won't be able to stop again today", esp. if you need to do so for more than 3 minutes straight...
@@seven9766 yeah I agree, my brakes are pretty powerful I hardly have to pull them for a rapid loss of traction haha
This man V-brakes
My v-brakes on my 90s XC bike could do that (of course they’re Pro Shifts; the Hope brakes of their time).
Do you have disc brakes? I find the lower centre of gravity makes the front flipping problem a thing of the past
I've recently switched to the M8020's and am loving them so far, just be aware if you go for the caliper only option, you will need to buy new banjo bolts to suit as the one on the 2-pot XT caliper is different to that on the 4-pot XT/saint.
Great roundup of these brakes, keep up the awesome content.
Nicely done! Great breakdown of the key features!
I personally have to say I’m a sram code guy. I had Shimano xrt on my bike and and rode a friends with codes. Soon after I had them on my bike. They have at least as good power but they have modulation. Huge improvement in my opinion.
I think you should've tossed in a set of magura mt7 brakes
why? To get a break which is always not working?
no... trash
Magura is Plastic Garbage.
Brakes makes twice as much Noise then all the Others togetger.
There Bad to Adjust and Bad to Bleed.
They also have this wierd flex feeling while Braking. The Levers Brakes often and theyre often leaking
And they are way Overpriced.
Agree with the comments that Magura is a disaster
@@vogelimarc8795 yea magura should just stick with motorcycle brakes lol
I run hope brakes for a few years now and all I can say is that they’re the best brakes I’ve ever ridden with. Never had any problems with losing brake pressure, the brakes are always working at the same amount of brake lever pull
I agree. If its enough for Joe Barnes then it's enough for me.
I have a set of the hopes. Awesome light brakes with loads of modulation and power. Amazing they are so good compared to the corporate powerhouses. SRAM and Shinano are everywhere because they are often spec'ed on new bikes.
Remember hope made some of the first mtb disc brakes, you see some sets that are 10+ years old that still work and people pay good money for them, proper high quality stuff
It says a lot that I would flip a coin to pick between Hope and the SRAM. Hope make excellent products. SRAM have come a long way!
That was a fantastic video mate! Really clear, precise, too the point and hella enjoyable! Cheers!!
Shimano has an under the radar 4 pot caliper in the MT520 its almost the same as the XT but without the price and free stroke adjustment. its a great brake for entry level trail bikes.
Hi Justin. Yep, we've actually just fitted those brakes to our Merida long-term test bike, and they are seriously good for the cash!
Just out of warranty and my XT 8000 rear just packed it in (sucking air somewhere in the system) thinking of replacing them - just not sure with which, the 8020 or the MT520? Or go all in, and upgrade front and back.
Running 180mm up front and back.
Graptos i have the old xt (8000) to … the mt520 seems the alternative to saint if i upgrade … or trickstuff direttissima if budget wouldnˋt be an issue
XT dual piston overkill for the average enduro rider, perfect for the enduro racer! At 174lbs, they were flawless on 203/180mm rotors on muddy wet Tiger mtn,wa last week. Worth every penny!
The XT brakes weigh 174 lbs? That must slow you down somewhat going uphill, no?
Piston size on the Saint are a bit larger than the XTs, the XTs use a 15/17 mm caliper while the Saints/Zeee use 16/18mm calipers. Bought a set of M8020 front and rear for just above 250 USD, id say it was a steal.
Hi,that is not true.Xt 4 piston size it is the same of saint/zee 16-18mm.Calipers are the same.
I love my Tech 3 E4's
Cheers for the video, just the one i needed as my magura 2 pots boil over and dont have the bite my old 4 pots had back in the last 90s so i needed some info - and youve convinced me that I need the XTs.
Thank you for not reviewing Magura MT7. I was able to purchase them despite the global bike supply chain issues.
I've tried various Shimano brakes, SRAM Guides (R and RSC) and Hope E4s, but honestly the TRP Quadiems are better than any of them. SRAM/Hope modualation with Shimano power and bleed procedure. And they look blingy too. The TRP matchmakers aren't great but I'll happily run 22.2mm clamps on my dropper and shifter if it means having brakes this good.
Take some time to set up the Hopes properly and make sure everything is centred and they are stunning.I have been using them for around 25 years,I can’t even remember when they first started making them.A good upgrade is to rebleed them with high temperature racing brake fluid.Brake fade becomes a thing of the past.I agree they lack absolute braking power compared to some but they have more control and modulation than virtually everything else and off road ( in my opinion) that is a bigger factor than ultimate power which can result in a lock up on loose surfaces.
Shimano xt 8020 🔝🤘🙏
Like the hope brakes hope they while soon release that 6 caliper brake
Great video 👍🏻
Great video would love to have seen the Magura MT7 pro and the TRP G-Spec Quadiem's in the test as well.
Well done, thanks for sharing this video! Hope you share more videos soon! Anyway, I liked your video. Keep rollin’! All the best, Philipp from PHAM
I've run Hopes for years now I still have several OG sets on diff bikes including Minis, XC4's, MonoM4s w/custom Mini/Dangerboy levers and a cpl of Mono 6 TI calipers on Tech 3 and Mini/Dangerboy levers .. even a wheelset w/ their Titanium hubs with center lock rotors from 20 + yrs ago lol.. not always the most powerful but plenty powerful to lock a wheel almost any time and the modulation to make sure you virtually never do....;-)
I'm running a set I jonesed over for a cpl years : V4 front/203mm rotor & E4 rear /183mm rotor the V4 runs a bigger caliper, bigger pistons + pads it has significantly more power. Vs the E4. I'd figured, as a bigger guy, that combo would be perfect plus, I "overbrake" my bikes as a rule lol. (Mono 6 TI ! ) I got lucky and found a fresh set barely used on ebay, saved a ton. The shimanos and srams ive ridden on other bikes are pretty amazing brakes these days its stunning how fast it has all become so refined. Bottom line, you really can't go wrong, they all kick some ass.
wen I grow up imma get me some Maxima / Diretissima brakes....
I rock a tech 3 v4 up front and a tech3 e4 in the rear. Perfect 👌 amount of modulation and power .. my santa cruz 5010cc v3 stops on a dime and gives back change.
This is such a great review! Just the way he stands there leaning against that red box and immediatly start speaking
I really like my XT 2 piston, I'll probably buy just the 4 piston caliber for a little extra power for when I need it
I have the xt 2 piston and the slx 4 piston blow them away... Both are really good
@@MTBMOR I upgraded to xt 4 and 203mm rotors
@@adampetten1009 That's about as good as it gets
Very professional review 👊👊
HOPE
Mate, love your review. Super professional and very informative
Having returned to biking after a 16 year break, it’s amazing how SRAM has come from nowhere and is dominating the field. I bought 3 top of the line bikes and all came standard with full SRAM group sets. How did Shimano lose their lead so badly?!
I also had some of the new SLX brakes and sold them as soon as possible and got myself a set of Formula The One. Serious inconsistency with the new line of brakes. Awkward that almost all of my friends ride Saints and Zees and say the same regarding lever feel, but they say you just need to pump a few times before braking and you'll be good.
Complete opposite for me and I love sram Eagle drivetrain.. However the brakes have been lackluster, noisy and just don't cut it compared to Shimano.. The new Saint 4 piston are the pinnacle
Simple economics, mate. SRAM gives OEM spec dirt pricing to grab share but charge through the ass for after market purchase to recoup margin.
Its mainly because Sram made a 12 speed while shimano didnt offered one yet while it was the new trend. Then, many bike brands decided to go with those 12 speed drive train, Rockshock suspension and Sram Brakes in the same time as deals for all products were better. That is why you now see much more Lyriks and Sram components on complete bikes.
That being said, Shimano now has a 12 speed. Hopefully, things will be different from now on!
SRAM is dominating field of shitty brakes but they are top seller of rebuild kits! :D
My top 5, but with their flaws included:
1. Trickstuff Maxima or Direttissima (too expensive and the wait list is too long for delivery)
2. Formula Cura 4 (they have an odd break-in period, so odd in fact... that riders dismiss them before experiencing their power)
3. Magura MT7 (flimsy levers)
4. Shimano SLX 4 piston (no one gives them a chance, so they live in the shadows of the XTs, ZEEs, Saints, and XTRs)
5. SRAM Codes, Formula Cura, and Hope V4s (they’re all in 5th place for reasons of “feel”, 2-pistons, or cost/power ratio)
Ive ridden Saints, XTs, Sram and now Formula Curas.
The Curas are the best ive ridden- as strong as the others but better Modulation, cheaper, reliable and the lever is the most comfortable.
For 200-220€ for a full set with disc you wont find a better brake.
Shimano xtr for me!
XTR levers are so fragile...
Seems like the Code is the only one marketed as a "full on" downhill brake so you would expect it to be stronger. Shimano Saint and Hope Tech 3 V4 would be the equivalents, and the SRAM Guide RSC would/should be on the same level as the XT and E4. Pity you couldn't get a Magura in. My MT5s are good but need fairly frequent bleeding.
These brakes are for different purposes:
SRAMs for failing on trail
HOPEs for adding bling to your bike
SHIMANOs for going over the bars
Don’t run the floating hope rotors, run the standard style, not only do the floating rotors warp easily they are also slightly spaced to far outward of the perfect rotor alignment.
HOPE without a doubt.
Ahhhh no thanks for the silly comment though
With the finned brake pads and the rattling, ride them for a bit. Take the pads out and you'll see where they're contacting the caliper to produce the rattle. Sand/abrade the spot(s) and apply a THIN layer of high temp automotive silicone. Let cure, reinstall, no rattle.
My girlfriend just got me Hope E4 for Xmas :)
How would you know unless your unwrapping your presents and peaking, then wrapping them back up. If she told you, then she should have made you wait until Christmas
Travis Abel
It doesn’t work like that in my house
Justin Holmes have you ridden with them yet? What do you think?
Doom Engine FPV Not yet mate, waiting to get my frame back from power coating
Doom Engine FPV Done a bit of riding with them, they’re a bitch to get working right but once you do they’re awesome !
I have HOPE 6 pots and are the most powerful breaks I have ever tried.
Ive always got a back up brake installed on my bike. I once had a brake lever snap on me and since then ive got disc and an additional rim brake installed on the back.
Bikes usually have a backup brake already.. so are you running 3 levers??
@@stcandrew You've got it.
@@holzwurm_hd7029 wow that's wild. Better safe than sorry I guess. Lol
with shimano M6000 I had to refill brakes with fluid if pads got bit worn, and still have plenty of life in them,
but I gave up on shimano after a streak of bad luck, I have enough, so many leaking brakes I am done with it. I am currently using TRP Spyke dual piston mechanical brakes, but I might return to hydraulic if I find a break I am satisfied with, but I have TRP Spyke as spare, what ever I try in the future.
+1 for that Polygon Siskiu N9!
It’s time to compare the new generations of those brakes🙃
Great video and comparison
well that was an impressive video. thanks for that. im interested in magura so hopefully one day you'll review them. i like mineral oil brakes so it's between shimano and magura for me.
My new brakes are Shigura.
Love all my hope brakes! Did you guys follow hopes recommended setup guide?
Nice trip!
I have one hope x2 and one hope e4 and the x2 is actually a lot nice feel to it and feels like it has twice the power even though it’s 2 piston
Hi, loving those trails! Keep those videos coming! Anyway, I subscribed to your channel. Have a good day!
Also hope have better mount adapters. Imo the dished washers are shitty and you are bolting through into your PM on the fork with 1 set of bolts whilst heavier hopes way of bolt the adapter to the fork then the caliper to the adapter removes any undue stresses as everything is cleanly bolted in.. setup is easy just follow the guide center the caliper then center the pistons, modulation... i like modulation, you have lever movement for a reason otherwise it might as well be an on off switch. Hopes have that predictably over the whole lever movement.. the harder you squeeze the faster you stop, you cant have too much braking, never had a problem with hopes, split calipers however why would you do that if not for cost, hopes remove that failure point and a couple of bolts in the process, those bolts are the extra ones used to bolt your caliper too the adapter so weight for weight are probably comparable,.....
My sram code r 4 pistons are terrible unless they are red hot.
Trp? Magura?
Can't leave Magura
a brand I hear little about is Trickstuff, I haven't tried them but very little info on those, not alot of reviews.
Formula? They make some absolutely top level stuff. The Selva, Nero and 35 are more that able to compete with top Level RS and Fox forks. Same goes for the brakes. The Cura 2 and 4 piston brakes are really powerful and probably the best feeling brakes on the market. Modulation and price are also amazing.
Hadn't really heard of Formula's brakes. The only problem ... not a lot of feedback on them from the market, so I really have no reason to try them over widely proven products, like XT. Especially at the $150 price-point for four piston.
They're at the same price point as TRP Quadiems. I just can't see guinea pigging Formula brakes over some of these others.
Frankly, for the money, Shimano Zee is an amazing brake for $120 per end.
Magura is the worst brake I ever had. Weak brake power and the level did not stay in place
I'm perfectly happy with my Sram Guides. I'm pretty sure most of the people saying sram sucks are just regurgitating shit they hear their idols saying.
yeah had some quality issues, but most of that was recalled and now it's not really an issue. I run sram code, and had sram guides before that, they were actually more reliable than my old shimano XTs which I ended up having to bleed more often and ultimately the master cylinder started getting stuck, ultimately I swapped the XTs for guides and ended up liking them more all around.
I love the shimano zee brakes
My new girl is a all black stumpjumper, the colored hopes ? Woo Hoo !
Yassss
Great Stuff
My xt 4 change when they heat up, they start screeching and vibrate badly back through the brake line, I don't trust them at high speed, the hope 9 fells better and that's an old brake.
saints for the win ! i bet those xt are v similar
wouldnt aftermarket pads reduce the brake noise from the sram brakes anyway?
Sram for going, shimano for stopping.
Looks like a really unbiased review, good job! Price/performance/reliability - Shimano.
i have saint. its good but i shift to hope and its better, and i change to TRP quadiem and its perfect..
sram breaks IS the WORST break for me. thank you
Yesss
I prefer the Hope Tech E4’s on a personal note. Currently running the shimano xt’s n Im constantly having to bleed thwm why is thais? May go back to E4’s on my new orbea rallon m10 good vid by the way
Trickstuff Direttissima or Trickstuff Maxima? Very expensive, but very very very good...
I've tried multiple different brakes from Formula Ros to Sram and they all suck compared to Hope. I'll never use anything else again.
Hope are overpriced and overrated. Bought them for bike park riding and sooo disappointed. Have Saints now much better for full on bite . Must be a UK thing just don’t see them in Canada and not well liked
dope
Hm. I like my Zees. Great anchors, esp. for the money i spent on them (ridiculously low price), also, on brakes i don't mind a bit of extra weight. Hope's offering looks kinda flimsy compared to the XT caliper. Of course, the Codes are insanely sleek, but for some reason i like the braced, rounded look of the mt5s calipers best. A bitch to clean, however. Yeh, i like my zees.
The fact that i run them on a 12kg xc bike with 180 mm rotors and weigh about 70 kgs with clothes... eh i'm fine with that. Knowing that if i ever need to stop RIGHT NOW, i can. Oh, also great for doing stoppie to nothing to faceplant to flat. Ask me how i know...
Nice, I’m getting the 8020’s mentioned in this video soon and I’m excited to finally have some stoppie power
Do you know if the SRAM Code RSC callipers can be combined with the Sram Force (eTap AXS) and other Sram dropbar grips (as Hope RX4 can, for instance)? Thank you.
Hope Tech 3 V4 !!!
Have you ever tried a 1 piston Magura Louise with 203mm rotors? The power and modulation performance is still up to date.
Formula brakes!!!
My old xtr 2 pot brakes have nothing on my slx 4 pot brakes
I think its unfair, because the code is the dh brake and the xt the trail brake, so you need a saint or the guide. So its unfair to say wich is better.
Yes, but many people run codes on enduro bikes
Hi. I need some a lil advise from you guys. I wanted to get the hope tech3 e4 coz i need a better modulation from my pivot mach6. And what size of rotors that are perfect on this one? Thanks
I'm sorry but in my opinion Japanese forged XT's look way more appealing to me then cheap cnc'ed ones, no matter how beautiful the colours are (and they are).
Is anyone with me?
No Magura MT5/MT7, Tektro/TRP Slate or TRP G-Spec Quadriem?
I prefer the Magura brakes myself (with the polished MT7 trails looking very good) as you can register them to get a 5 year leak-proof warranty (the only company to do this as far as I know)!
As far as I'm concerned the SRAM brakes are no better than the old Avids (they're just re-branded), as they are annoying to bleed and have limited lifespan. Everyone I know that have used the SRAM brakes for a couple of years end up having problems with them, despite loving them when they're new (just like everyone did with Avid). I have a set of Hope Race X2 brakes that are 4 years old now, and have never had any problems with them.
Also if you want problem-free brakes then don't use the floating rotors. All that happens is that the rivets eventually loosen up, and you have to replace the rotor long before it wears out. The performance difference in braking (and the weight saving) isn't worth the cost, or the reduction in reliability, in my opinion.
hope👍👍👍👍
can you use the xt ice tech rotors with the slx breaks / calipers?
Yes, that would work
After having 5 sets of Avid/SRAM brakes fail (they were spec'd on new bikes) and ruin rides and vacations, I'll never buy a Sram/Avid brake again. You can't go wrong with Shimano.
Great video but I don’t like the colour grading my phone has an OLED and the picture just looks washed out
So?
the CODE RSC looks sick!..but i like the XT
Nice
What does the assembly consist of?
hy! cool video . you compare brakes who runs on 26kilo E-Bikes. the Hope brakes are not so agressive when cool. they need to be HOT to be agressive. the sram and shimanos are agressive when cool . when they are hot. you dont have brakes ;)
2:15 Wrong! The lever design has actually nothing to do with the brake pad's distance to the disc.
It does ...
@@CharlieICEdreamz Well, if you say so.
Is it possible to change brakes without changing discs? Like: go from sram to hope or go from sram guide to sram code, leaving the guide discs on?
Yes, that will work
Hi I have a question can I ride the hope tech 3 v4 on my enduro commencal clash with the 203 mm rotors?
Yes, it will work.
M8020 here just perfect for Lake district and UK wet riding ... Hope are nice but not strong enough and Srams stuff is well ... Srams
Can’t wait to get my 8020’s
Pretty happy with my shigura xt5. OTB central if not careful.
Is it possible to use the Zee or the 8020 with Ultegra Road Levers?