4:30 Matthew, the Jukebox mainly became a thing because their composer literally made too many great tracks and they wanted a way to include all of them into the game.
Also one of the songs is called "Umemoto", a reference to the famous PC98 composer who did music for such stunning VN classics as "YU-NO: Girl Who Chants Love at The Bounds of Time" (an incredible soundtrack I encourage you to look up).
The introduction where the music and the menu of Papers Please shoves that of VA-11 Hall-A out of the way perfectly sums up his thoughts between the two games.
It's interesting that you mention that it's disappointing that the game doesn't have a time limit for making drinks since the game's prototype, the "Prologue" actually has a time limit. Since you don't get paid in the prologue the game rewards you with points with points differing on accuracy of the drink you served and how fast you can serve the drink (I think bonus points stop after 45 seconds). So somewhere along the line, the devs removed the time limit for what ever reason.
As usual a super interesting video about two games that I really enjoyed my time with in both cases, so it was a treat to watch and hear your thoughts. However... I do have a major disappointment - you mentioned the multiple endings and secret scenes of Papers Please, but not of VA-11 Hall-A, which has plenty of it's own. If I didn't know you thoroughly research your stuff before making your videos I would have thought you never even discovered them and didn't realise they existed. While VA-11 Hall-A only has one "main" ending, and as you say the game is quick to correct the course of the story towards that, there's multiple hidden scenes that flesh out character backstories that can only be triggered by serving them in a particular way. Pretty much every single one of these major secret scenes makes you look at the related characters in a completely different light, which I loved. Collecting these scenes also results in the end sequence being extended to include additional "conclusions" for all these smaller storylines. Regarding the drinks that have to be made to uncover these, it seems like you either didn't realise they were puzzles or completely forgot about them, because there were a fair few more examples of what you said you were hoping for than what you mentioned. Virgilio's nonsensical orders are literally puzzles to work out the solution for, and while Jill will justify an incorrect answer as conforming to what he asked, there is in fact, a correct choice for each one. Dorothy mentions very early on in the game that a particular drink cheers her up when she's down, and days and days later comes in feeling down and doesn't order anything, leaving the player to try and come up with something she might like (remembering said drink is of course, part of what triggers her secret scene/ending). I found this example particularly jarring because it's pretty much EXACTLY what you said you wanted when showing the late-game interaction between Ingram and Jamie, yet you chose to focus on that instance where it doesn't happen rather than the one where it does. Now granted, frankly I found some of these puzzles WAY too vague, though I also concede that after I gave in and looked up spoiler-free guides to just know exactly what to serve, in pretty much every case I realised that all the clues required WERE there. I also agree that the game rarely encourages experimentation. When I STARTED my second playthrough to get all endings, I decided to do it legit old-school and take down notes of anything that seemed relevant to each character's story or ordering habits etc, but I still had to rely on reloading save games a fair amount as I took gambles and shot unusual orders based off of my research into the blue to see if they had an effect. Just to close my comment, I'd say overall I enjoyed my time with VA-11 Hall-A more. Papers Please was significantly stressful to play and the atmosphere was overwhelmingly negative, whereas VA-11 Hall-A is perfectly the opposite. Of course, that's exactly what both games are supposed to be, but I'm just not good at stomaching that kind of realistic dystopian atmosphere. Of course, VA-11 Hall-A is also set in dystopia and has grim events and backstories, but I found them just right in terms of moderation between those tense points and the more casual stuff. EDIT: Oh just one more thing, I do feel your critique of the bartending mechanics were a bit pedantic and your suggestions of expanding them would have just majorly overcomplicated the action of making drinks (which for me, only became tedious on my above mentioned second playthrough where, at first, I was reloading and experimenting a whole bunch). On the flipside I have nothing but agreement for your thoughts on the jukebox feature, it really did work great.
Tom Fitz Their dialogue still changes in the lead-up to that ending though, and you have the 1-to-1 conversation with them (or a related character) that almost always reveals something that totally changes how you see them. Most players, unless they are actively noting stuff down, are not gonna remember favourite drinks and such on a first playthrough. I don't really see how the endings being tacked on is a criticism either, VA-11 HALL-A is a game where the ultimate goal is to make as many people happy as you can, and they decided to make that pretty much possible (there are a few tiny exceptions, mainly involving the secret cameos of Read Only Memories characters being impossible to get at the same time as an all-endings playthrough). It certainly makes sense to prefer a Visual Novel type experience that has endings that differ from one another, but I don't think it's inherently bad to make a game that sets out to tell one story and rewards the player with more of it if they pay attention and work out some simple puzzles etc.
JezMM "Most players, unless they are actively noting stuff down, are not gonna remember favourite drinks and such on a first playthrough" That sounds pretty bad to me, I would like to have the tools to do that withing the game, like a character sheet or something. I'll probably buy the game anyway, liked the demo so much.
"Of course, VA-11 Hall-A is also set in dystopia and has grim events and backstories" Indeed, but a primary theme and driving charm of Va11-Hall-A is the nihilism and uncaring attitude to the world and its troubles that the characters, particularly Jill, exhibit, which is a very real outlook common in modern-day big cities. Despite the bleak and distopian atmosphere blanketing the entire setting, it manages to be a comfy and upbeat day-to-day life story, because the characters care far more about the intricate details of their own lives and those around them than the larger problems that society faces. I'm just elaborating on what you said though, and the main point is that Va11-Hall-A and Papers, Please are two extremely different games with only surface-level similarities in their gameplay, so a comparison such as this video seems rather unfair, especially when the conclusion Matthew is pushing is that one should become more like the other, despite their goals being very dissimilar.
Seems to me MM wanted something out of Valhalla it wasn't going for to begin with. Which doesn't make what he's saying wrong, I actually thought to myself as well that the drink mixing should have more of an effect (though it does have more of an effect than portrayed in this video). Obviously the game could be better in a variety of ways. But the comparison to PP seems kind of, like he said, superficial.
I did. They're not similar if you've been paying attention to them, especially before Va's release (which I've been doing; I've had eyes on this game since before even the demo like a year ago).
They're similar in interface, but the genre of their content is very different. One is cyberpunk covered in a veneer of 4chan's weebshit-based culture (and it is; don't pretend that's not what is implied with "cyberpunk waifu bartending"), and the other is a grimdark recounting of the embellished life of a hypothetical "citizen" under a caricatured "socialist" regime. One of them has a small cast of characters (despite taking place in a world where the "individual" isn't really valued); the other has a nearly-limitless flow of nobodies moving through it (of which you are one) One is colorful and really whimsical at times; the other is drab and cold. One is high-tech; the other is low-tech. One puts you on a strict time limit; the other is laissez-faire. I'm just saying they're so different that I question what made Matthew even think that it was appropriate to make a whole video comparing the two. I listened to the whole video, but nothing he says really makes it make sense to me. It's like making a comparison on the difference between Danganronpa and Ace Attourney, which are, once you take a good look, very hard to compare, instead of a good comparison (like, say, comparing Sonic CD to Freedom Planet or something like that).
There are parts of the game where you need to remember special drinks though? Donovan's usual drink, Alma's favorite drink, what Dorothy likes when she feels down, figuring out Virgillo's riddles. Getting these right rewards you with special dialogue and bonus endings and they don't remind you what they are, you need to remember.
4 years late but they're still very few and far between that they don't feel significant. they don't do enough to justify the mixing minigame and why shouldn't it just have been a visual novel with the minigame scrapped and the extra time put into writing instead.
I largely agree with the critique in this video, although I still really enjoyed Va-11 Hall-A. Like most visual novels, it feels like it just has a nominal amount of gameplay to occasionally provide a break from clicking through dialogue. That being said, Matt didn't touch on how adding extra alcohol to clients' drinks in Va-11 Hall-A can unlock different dialogue paths, or how you have to remember the preferences of various characters to know what drinks to give them when they don't ask for something specific or when they're in a certain mood. All of these features were sadly underutilised in Va-11 Hall-A but I'd like to think that was an intentional decision from the devs to create a laid-back kind of game, as opposed to them just being lazy. The story is where Va-11 Hall-A really shines though, especially with how it continually subverts your expectations by leaving all the grand stories of conspiracies and societal breakdown in the background.
I really don't see how you compare these two games (though I highly recommend to anyone reading, you play both. Both are amazing in their own ways). One is a visual novel with a drink thing mixed on top. The other isn't. Valhalla is way more dialogue focused. Papers is way more mechanical focused. Of course you did bring up some fair criticisms (such as them not really noting the wrong drinks), but I just feel comparing the two is silly. And I think if you're going to critique the game, you should focus on all of its aspects rather than just the issues you have with it, and somehow make it seem like the game is complete shit. Not once did you really bring up the story (as you pointed out), when that was really the main aspect of the entire game. It'd be like focusing on Call of Duty for it's campaign writing rather than the multiplayer. Either way, an interesting opinion. It's just one I happen to disagree with.
"Not once did you really bring up the story" Congratulations, you missed the point of the video. It wasn't specifically focused on the overall quality of the game at all. It was pointing out shortcomings/disappointments in the gameplay and how vall halla could of taken influence from papers please.
I acknowledged that though. And I clearly said I just found it odd how you could compare the two games, since they're not going for the same thing at all.
I don't understand how people fail to grasp the comparison Matt is making. He established it in the video at 00:45 - "At a glance the two have a lot in common... [starts by highlighting that they're both sims where the player is a worker serving clients, they have almost identical interfaces, and they share the same workday-to-workday structure with the end day objective of making enough money to survive between those workdays]." That's enough in common that it's fair to say these games occupy very similar genres mechanically even if they have polar opposite stories and atmospheres. While Papers, Please has its narrative interwoven with increasingly complex gameplay mechanics, Vallhalla uses simple, static mechanics that feel superficial to its narrative. Matt is suggesting that, had Vallhalla made similar mechanical choices to Papers Please, it could have felt like a more cohesive experience rather than two unrelated things stuck together. Last thing: I really enjoyed Valhalla! I think it's characters are charming and the experience was a simple, unchallenging balm for me while real life was difficult and complicated. ALL THAT SAID, I think Valhalla could have been even better if it had looked to games like Papers Please for lessons on how to more meaningfully incorporate story with gameplay. You can like a thing and still acknowledge its faults and consider how it could be improved.
Yeah, probably. The two games are at best superficially similar and the comparison just kind of falls flat to me. I wonder why Matt decided to compare the two, given the wildly different scope and style of each game.
James Downs I know. And thats no problem, since Vallhalla never advertised itself as a action packed game, IIRC? I mean, Visual Novels are supposed to be calming, shouldnt they?
Mike L'Angelo I've heard of nothing to suggest that they should. I believe that Symphonic Rain can pose at least some challenge on the hardest difficulty.
The problem with this comparison is that, even if MM doesn't try to make Va11 Hall A look bad, he does. The main problem is that Vallhalla is just a chill game where the actual gameplay (bartending) is secondary and just used as a way to make dialogue choices (even if the player doesn't know). It focussed on giving a story where, like irl, there's not a menu where you can select the dialogue branch. PP on the other hand focussed on using it's gameplay to tell as story. Vallhalla would not work if the gameplay was primary, just as PP wouldn't work if it was a visual novel. That's why the comparison between both is stupid, and ends up with people not wanting to play Vallhalla because this comparison implies that "why play Vallhalla when you can play PP?". The reality is that both games are amazing, and are definitely worth playing.
Pretty fair points across the board but I will disagree on one thing. The game definitely penalizes the players for serving the "wrong" drinks. If you only give customers what they ask for, you're only seeing at best 40% of what the game's story has to offer. Donovan, Ingram, Sei, Stella, Miki, and Dorothy all have storylines that hinge on serving what they need and not what they ask you for.
Essentially what I felt about the game when I reviewed it last year. I liked the premise and the theme, but the main difference between Papers, Please and VA-11 Hall-A was that one of these games wrapped the theme around a compelling set of gameplay mechanics, the other didn't.
Matt's criticism of Valhalla was mostly fair but I felt like it missed the point of the game entirely. The gameplay of Papers Please is meant to be difficult and stressful. The story and setting were built specifically to enable and support that gameplay, and consequently the overall feeling. The point of Valhalla is the setting and the atmosphere. The bartending gameplay isn't really supposed to be more than a distraction, a form of work while you get to know the people, because that's what it is to Jill. But in that respect, it plays into the story really well. You can get certain endings by paying attention to characters' favorite drinks throughout the game and by getting characters drunk at certain times. It served the purpose of the game, and likening it to Papers Please isn't a fair comparison. All of that being said, I do agree that Papers Please is the better overall package. I think they're both great games in their own ways though, in no way does Valhalla fail at doing anything it set out to do.
"you missed the point of the setting and atmosphere!' No, he didn't. The crux of what he's saying is how "setting and atmosphere" don't make for a good game. It's part of a good game, but if that's literally all there is to one then it comes off as lazy and bad. The gameplay in Valhalla is incredibly shallow and uninteresting, and never gets better. And like Matt said, if "setting and atmosphere" is your argument, then just make it an outright visual novel.
@@_ArsNova it is a visual novel, the bartending stuff is what’s building the mood and atmosphere, it’s not supposed to be focused on it’s there for atmosphere.
I like the game but I do agree with this video entirely. The lack of reactivity and depth to the drink serving was a pretty big disappointment when the game finally came out.
I just love how excited Matthew gets whenever he starts talking about the drinks. It's subtle, but you're a through and through Irishman, Matty. 'Grats.
I think it comes down to the fact that the atmosphere which VA-11 Hall-A attempts to establish is the direct opposite of Papers Please. I've never played Papers Please, but from what I can gather, it's a game that aims to make you feel stressed and uncomfortable. VA-11 Hall-A aims to be laid back and comfortable. This can even be seen in the jobs they choose to emulate (immigration officer vs. bartender.) Don't get me wrong, Papers Please is definitely objectively better as a game, I can see that even as someone who's never played Papers Please, and yes I do feel like VA-11 Hall-A's drink mechanics should affect the story in more ways (it does a few times, but there are only two times in the whole game where it's made obvious, plus there does need to be a lot more times when it affects the story.) However, the suggestions you make in terms of making it harder or more stressful just wouldn't work with the game's atmosphere.
Great video as always. Although I agree with pretty much everything you said I do think maybe you were a little bit hard on VA-11 Hall-A. There are more than a few instances where you need to remember things about recurring customers in order to choose the correct drink and possibly change the story route for somebody. As much as I think there should be more consequences for failure, the game's difficulty really matches the relaxing feel-good tone it has. Papers Please can be a very stressful game to play (At least I know it was for me), but VA-11 Hall-A is so much slower and lets you go at whatever pace you want. I guess mostly that's the experience I was looking for in the first place. Maybe I'm biased, Va-11 Hall-A was the first game I've enjoyed so much in a long time and stands up as my favourite this entire year.
You didn't mention the sense of physical interaction Papers Please gives you by letting you move documents with the mouse, making you align the seals, etc. with all those satisfying clicky and papery sound effects.
At the end you brushed off the fact that the devs were clearly trying to make it a completely separate game to Papers Please. I liked some of your comparisons, but found the review to be flawed in the sense that you had expectations for VA-11 to be something it wasn't and was disappointed that it was not what you expected.
I never even considered Papers Please being an influence when i played Va-11 Hall-a. Even though i guess the latter also depicts life in a dystopian society, its take on that universe is much, much less heavy than Papers Please's. We're talking about a game that jokingly calls itself waifu bartending. Basically what i'm trying to say is i don't know how relevant comparing those two games really is, it feels like comparing Gurren Lagann and Evangelion because both had mechs, if that makes any sense. however some of the gripes you had with Va-11 Hall-a i found to be justified and if its developers ever make another game in the same vein i hope they add some depth to the game mechanics.
That was the whole point of the comparison; the use of gameplay mechanics. You can compare any two games depending on what you're comparing. I could compare Silent Hill 3 and Professor Layton if the topic of discussion was puzzles, for instance.
I mean being a bartender vs at border control is so different it's barely comparable, while vallhalla has influence from papers please, the story they're trying to present is so different from each other the comparison isn't fair. Vallhalla is a much more relaxing experience about a person's story and nothing else. I didn't play paper please but I assume that paper please is trying to accomplish much much more. Vallhalla just want to tell a story and be done with it. That's why it's a visual *novel* and not much of a game.
I played both and you nailed it, even if I disliked Valhalla. Maybe people with great analytical skills are not so good at considering other perspectives.
The critiques are absolutely valid, but I'd still say that people should give VA-11 Hall-A a shot, if only because I like explorations of fun characters and this gives an interesting set of them.
Talking about serving a tough-guy drink with a little umbrella made me imagine a game where you influenced characters' lives primarily by messing with their drink orders. There'd probably need to be more meat to it, but...could be interesting.
I feel this is one of the most opinionated videos you've put out, not that that's especially bad or good, just interesting. I know it's not labeled review or anything, and you specifically bring it up, but I do definitely think that for VA11 Hall-A, their primary goal was that PC88 style VN first, and a game about being a bartender second. And I think it does a good job of the former, but I definitely see why you'd say you see easy room for improvement and some disappointment in mechanics. Much like those old VNs, it's just a simple progression gate.
I think it's worth noting that Matt does point out this isn't supposed to be some kind of comprehensive review; It may do the former well, but that's not what this video was focusing on. Matt may not disagree with you entirely here.
TheGermandude2 That is also totally true. I guess I'm just paranoid people who watch this will dismiss the game when it does actually do what it wanted to do. But yeah I guess I'm just being a thinly veiled apologist.
I think Va-11 Hall-A knew what it wanted to be, and mostly did what it wanted to be. Looking at Sukeban the developers and the resources they probably had it came out pretty well. One element of the drink mixing I liked that you completely glossed over was with the alcohol content of the drinks. It's not called alcohol exactly but one of the ingredients is what gives the drinks the alcoholic effect, and certain drinks basically let you use as much of it as you want after a minimum. Now if you just do around the minimum for everyone they wont get absurdly drunk or anything, but if you give them a lot (like max every opportunity you get) there's different dialogue and animations as the characters can get pretty drunk. It's not deep or anything, but really what the game was trying to be was a cozy experience you could drink along side. hard to get cozy with extremely hard moral choices, and a drink mixing system that penalizes you for a mistake. This Comparison is apples to oranges considering the focus on papers is very much on the gameplay while Va-11 Hall-A's was more on the characters and the mood. That said Va-11 Hall-A is getting a sequel N1RV Ann-A and since Sukeban did have a hit, understand the engine their working with better, and have learned a lot of lessons I will be disappointed if the gameplay hasn't evolved a little bit. I could imagine some suggestions you put out implemented, but considering the drinks were basically the meaningful choices you make I feel like adding drinks that could help sober someone up instead of just drunken them would be interesting along with just more events that could happen if you make just the right drink at just the right time that you would know about by paying attention to your customers.
"Maybe they didn't intend to be like Papers Please." Because they're NOTHING ALIKE! Your comparisons are contrived as hell, like the screen being obscured by "bartender's interface", because that's the player's job.
I think that while paper please tries to stress you and make you anxious, vallhalla is more like a book with pictures that allows you to make choices. They didn't get too focused on the actual bartender game element because you should be playing it for the story not to be a bartender (there are games for what vallahalla is nothing). So, in my opinion, it should be played like a book should be read and that's why you have all the calm in the world there. In fact the only difficulty is to make sure that the game is going towards the ending you have chosen because (it happened to me) always doing perfect services to two different characters I chose the one I hadn't chosen -_- I think this
Yeah, comparing the two games that way is a bit inappropriate imo. After all the very first thing you see when opening the game is a message telling you to go get a drink to enjoy your experience. The developers obviously had a vision for their game, and despite the superficial dystopian ressemblance, I don't think VA 11 HALL A aimed for the moral choices. That said, I think it is good to hear criticism for what could have been improved on, it doesn't mean the game is bad, just that it could have been even better.
This is a pretty superficial comparison. It's very obvious that VA-11 HALL-A is going for something completely different compared to Papers Please. They are superficially similiar in concept but that's it. All this video does is drag VA-11 HALL-A into the dirt. Bit of a step down in quality on this one lad
He literally talks about va11halla going for something different and it having dofferent merits to papers please. He never calls it bad he just calls its brewing mechanics into question
Everything about the tone, music and vibe of VA11-HALL-A is my jam, but when i see the gameplay i just feel like i would be better suited playing Policenauts with a translation patch. Still the waifus tho.
While I don't really agree with the comparison, I do like the fact that you're addressing the issues VA-11 had. I mean, I enjoyed the game, but that's mostly because of the characters and (somewhat weirdly paced) story giving me a real good time. In terms of *gameplay*, it's probably one of the more decent/okish ones because there isn't a whole lot of difference in it, either in difficulty or in an actual change towards the character I'm serving the drink to. It also doesn't help the fact that it's pretty easy to get the money necessary to help pay for bills and items that Jill the MC wants because of this really easy system. If the developers for the game make another VA-11 title, or just a new game in a similar vein as Papers Please or VA-11, then i at least hope that there will be actual depth and reactions to what I do instead of just getting a half-assed "you mixed up the drink" statement.
I love your comparison videos especially, and I like how this one seemed more laid back than the others. Also, I've finally caught on that you've made it a trend to have a really neat, subtle ending line to all your videos. Good on you for the constant quality
This is too much of an apples and oranges games to make a fair comparison, you are comparing a visual novel with heavy driven and very good storie, against a unique game, both games only have in common the fact that you work in a everyday cicle.
Hey man, you should put the link to your Patreon page in your video descriptions. Makes it a little easier for people to donate, and they may feel more compelled to donate if they have they link to your Patreon page right in front of them.
This Is The Police is a pretty good take on Papers, Please, albeit a little long. You quickly have to decide whether you're going to be a hardworking policeman, suck up to city hall for everything or take payoffs from the mob
Maybe make the bartending a little harder with having a Repeat customer just order "The Usual" so you would have to remember what exactly they wanted perhaps?, oh yeah maybe the screen glitches up due to a plot related incident but no I guess the games not really about that and more absorbing the world and it's characters instead, not a bad thing of course.
using a superficial gameplay gimmick in vn is a common trope of the genre, it's mostly used to theme the game more than anything else in any case i can see how from a non weeb prospective this comparison whould make sense
I mean this is like comparing Koihime Musou to Total War: Three Kingdoms, both have strategy elements and are even set in the same time period but in reality they aren’t even comparable
I purchased, VA-11 Hall-A expecting something somewhat like Papers, Please. Perhaps my mistake. I did enjoy it at first but I ultimately stopped feeling engaged after a while. I very much agree with how disappointingly inconsequential the drink serving system felt. Great video as always!
I always really look forward to your videos. I'd kill to see more frequent uploads but I suppose I wouldn't like very regular ones of lesser quality. I look forward to more
Just a small note, the 'mixed' part is because some drinks are mixed and some are blended (you need to let it move longer for blending). You'll see some of them ARE noted at 'blended' instead of 'mixed'. I feel like I liked the games for two very different reasons (you mention that maybe it wasn't trying to be Papers, Please, and...I pretty much feel like that's the case. It's not insulting a game calling it 'just a VN', which it felt like you were trying to say? A lot of VNs literally have zero gameplay, not even with choices, and are completely fine and enjoyable reads. I always felt like the bartending stuff was mostly just to get you in the mindset of the character while focusing mostly of the story and that's it). I do agree that I did wish I could see more results for mucking up orders, though, you definitely have a good point there!
He didn't say that Visual Novels are inherently bad, he said that the addition of the drink mechanic did little to affect the story, and may have even hurt it by bringing the story to a halt every time you have to mix a drink, putting it in an awkward place between a visual novel and a more traditional game.
4:31 If i remember correctly, Sei said something about liking the music first time she vissited since i was playing a pro white knight song :o. Other than that good video ^_^
"just tastes watered down" OOOOOOOHOOOHOHOHOHO BURRRRN BURNT GET BURNT VA-11 HALL-A GET FUKIN BURNT OWAAAAAAAAAAY GET BURNT YOU FUKING HENTAI GET BURNT
I think its a bit unfair comparing a visual novel with an experimental user input to an experimental game. They are fundamentally different genres of games. You wouldn't compare Myst to Mario world for example. There are quite a few moments where remembering someones favorite drink will give you different special dialogue. Not to mention the hidden drinks not on the menu.
You are incredibly in-depth with all your videos, mate. Just subscribed today, and I have to say, the level of effort and intelligence you put into your videos is astounding, it's a real breath of fresh air. I found out about your channel from the PC Gaming Reddit in case you're wondering. Keep up the quality work mate!
Seeing a lot of mad Valhalla fans saying: "The game is meant to just be relaxing and not have you do anything! That's the point!" And to that I say: Sounds like a lazy excuse to have basically zero mechanical depth or gameplay at all in your game. It barely even qualifies as a "game" as it stands. If your goal to "make people relax" and not have them do anything, then just write a book.
@@arieelberian7614 Just seems like a lazy excuse to justify calling an almost completely uninteractive piece of visual media a "video game". Everything you do in Valhalla is so mindless and inconsequential, barring a handful of extremely esoteric drinks, it's almost farcical. This "game" and anything like it are not video games.
@@_ArsNovaalright then, let's go back. What is a video game? From what you're saying, visual novels aren't video game because it's "just clicking buttons" but most people can agree that they're still video games
From what I remember from dev blogs it seems that this game was going to have more features but problems came up and they took a lot of them out. I guess when the game got to a decent state they made the decision to release it so they had something. Even its sequel is having development hell issues to the point that they had to start over.
I loved Va-11 Hall-A, but I can agree with this. The drink mixing does fall flat in reactivity, but there are some moments where it's really great. Like you can load the fuck up drinks with optional amounts of Karmotrine to get certain characters piss drunk during certain conversations. That being said, I feel that there weren't enough moments to do this. It was my go-to strategy to get people plastered and even after serving drinks with an incredible amount of Karmotrine, they wouldn't get drunk. This complaint also goes back to the reactivity. It's an idea that was fleshed out, but not given many times to shine. I didn't really care about it not being complex though. The point of the game in the end was to be treated like a visual novel, not offer complex drink mixing.
Paper Please is just a story with settings. It doesn't answer much questions in a spiritual level. When you finish the game, the feeling is: well, I finally finish this game. Player won't care for the characters of the game. Not even Geogie (the one who keep asking for our help). For Va11-Hall a, it is an opposite experience to me. It really answers a lot of questions any teens may ask. "what is real? what is the meaning of existence? What's the difference between a man and an android (some Philip K Dick thing)? If LGBT can get marry, why can't I marry my dog?" Sometimes when the story is not suggesting an answer or asking the question, it is observing or reflecting the society. At the end, the character shows their own emotion and we care for them. Just like what Jill said 'but then I read a novel and I know I care enough for the characters. I know the feeling is true even though the characters are fake.' . . . So to me, the only thing that is similar in these two games are like what you said ' the systems of the two games are similar', but other than that, theses two are totally different gaming experiences. Btw great video. I can see you put a lot of effort in it. : )
I enjoyed it immensely as a guy who practically despises anime as a genre. Also this review is utter crap, I doubt he was ever paying attention and a lot of things he says aren't in the game actually are.
Fucking 16 minute build-up to a shitty pun, it's all I ever asked for
an incredible pun*
16 minutes? Try a whole month since the last video.
Matt quit his job to work on these videos, afaik.
It's a metaphor not a pun.
Xerkules, was that a joke?
Matt was clearly being critical to avoid admitting he enjoyed the waifus.
Who wouldn't?
John Doe waiting for a review of Huniepop next
@@docbuni So what's your thoughts on Matt now that he's reviewed the Sonic Dreams collection?
in which game? papers please?
They call that "deflection"
honestly, i'm just happy than Va-11 Hall-A is the first good game from venezuela
because our last game was CrazyBus
first "good game" ???
Crazy bus has better music and visuals.
YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH! Crazy Bus is a modern masterpiece.
Huh, thought that was out of Brazil. 😕
4:30 Matthew, the Jukebox mainly became a thing because their composer literally made too many great tracks and they wanted a way to include all of them into the game.
Also one of the songs is called "Umemoto", a reference to the famous PC98 composer who did music for such stunning VN classics as "YU-NO: Girl Who Chants Love at The Bounds of Time" (an incredible soundtrack I encourage you to look up).
Well that means the core game's even more bereft of content.
The introduction where the music and the menu of Papers Please shoves that of VA-11 Hall-A out of the way perfectly sums up his thoughts between the two games.
It's interesting that you mention that it's disappointing that the game doesn't have a time limit for making drinks since the game's prototype, the "Prologue" actually has a time limit. Since you don't get paid in the prologue the game rewards you with points with points differing on accuracy of the drink you served and how fast you can serve the drink (I think bonus points stop after 45 seconds). So somewhere along the line, the devs removed the time limit for what ever reason.
wow matt,you sure know your bartending
You don't play Devil May Cry non stop for several months without picking up a few vices
xaax666 he's irish
xaax666 And he did play Catherine, which has a plethora of alcohol trivia in it as extras in the bar area
But does Papers Please have cyberpunk waifus?
yes
if it did, then it wouldn't have good ratings
not every nerd(game reviewer) is an otaku
some are even anti otakus
Honestly i never heard of Va11 hall-a before and as soo as I saw the art direction I groaned.
Papers, Please has Futanari
@gibbdude every single one of them?
As usual a super interesting video about two games that I really enjoyed my time with in both cases, so it was a treat to watch and hear your thoughts. However... I do have a major disappointment - you mentioned the multiple endings and secret scenes of Papers Please, but not of VA-11 Hall-A, which has plenty of it's own. If I didn't know you thoroughly research your stuff before making your videos I would have thought you never even discovered them and didn't realise they existed.
While VA-11 Hall-A only has one "main" ending, and as you say the game is quick to correct the course of the story towards that, there's multiple hidden scenes that flesh out character backstories that can only be triggered by serving them in a particular way. Pretty much every single one of these major secret scenes makes you look at the related characters in a completely different light, which I loved. Collecting these scenes also results in the end sequence being extended to include additional "conclusions" for all these smaller storylines. Regarding the drinks that have to be made to uncover these, it seems like you either didn't realise they were puzzles or completely forgot about them, because there were a fair few more examples of what you said you were hoping for than what you mentioned. Virgilio's nonsensical orders are literally puzzles to work out the solution for, and while Jill will justify an incorrect answer as conforming to what he asked, there is in fact, a correct choice for each one. Dorothy mentions very early on in the game that a particular drink cheers her up when she's down, and days and days later comes in feeling down and doesn't order anything, leaving the player to try and come up with something she might like (remembering said drink is of course, part of what triggers her secret scene/ending). I found this example particularly jarring because it's pretty much EXACTLY what you said you wanted when showing the late-game interaction between Ingram and Jamie, yet you chose to focus on that instance where it doesn't happen rather than the one where it does.
Now granted, frankly I found some of these puzzles WAY too vague, though I also concede that after I gave in and looked up spoiler-free guides to just know exactly what to serve, in pretty much every case I realised that all the clues required WERE there. I also agree that the game rarely encourages experimentation. When I STARTED my second playthrough to get all endings, I decided to do it legit old-school and take down notes of anything that seemed relevant to each character's story or ordering habits etc, but I still had to rely on reloading save games a fair amount as I took gambles and shot unusual orders based off of my research into the blue to see if they had an effect.
Just to close my comment, I'd say overall I enjoyed my time with VA-11 Hall-A more. Papers Please was significantly stressful to play and the atmosphere was overwhelmingly negative, whereas VA-11 Hall-A is perfectly the opposite. Of course, that's exactly what both games are supposed to be, but I'm just not good at stomaching that kind of realistic dystopian atmosphere. Of course, VA-11 Hall-A is also set in dystopia and has grim events and backstories, but I found them just right in terms of moderation between those tense points and the more casual stuff.
EDIT: Oh just one more thing, I do feel your critique of the bartending mechanics were a bit pedantic and your suggestions of expanding them would have just majorly overcomplicated the action of making drinks (which for me, only became tedious on my above mentioned second playthrough where, at first, I was reloading and experimenting a whole bunch). On the flipside I have nothing but agreement for your thoughts on the jukebox feature, it really did work great.
This is a really thoughtful and well written comment. I will have to buy VA-11 Hall-A sometime!
Tom Fitz Their dialogue still changes in the lead-up to that ending though, and you have the 1-to-1 conversation with them (or a related character) that almost always reveals something that totally changes how you see them. Most players, unless they are actively noting stuff down, are not gonna remember favourite drinks and such on a first playthrough.
I don't really see how the endings being tacked on is a criticism either, VA-11 HALL-A is a game where the ultimate goal is to make as many people happy as you can, and they decided to make that pretty much possible (there are a few tiny exceptions, mainly involving the secret cameos of Read Only Memories characters being impossible to get at the same time as an all-endings playthrough). It certainly makes sense to prefer a Visual Novel type experience that has endings that differ from one another, but I don't think it's inherently bad to make a game that sets out to tell one story and rewards the player with more of it if they pay attention and work out some simple puzzles etc.
sounds pretty boring
JezMM
"Most players, unless they are actively noting stuff down, are not gonna remember favourite drinks and such on a first playthrough" That sounds pretty bad to me, I would like to have the tools to do that withing the game, like a character sheet or something.
I'll probably buy the game anyway, liked the demo so much.
"Of course, VA-11 Hall-A is also set in dystopia and has grim events and backstories"
Indeed, but a primary theme and driving charm of Va11-Hall-A is the nihilism and uncaring attitude to the world and its troubles that the characters, particularly Jill, exhibit, which is a very real outlook common in modern-day big cities. Despite the bleak and distopian atmosphere blanketing the entire setting, it manages to be a comfy and upbeat day-to-day life story, because the characters care far more about the intricate details of their own lives and those around them than the larger problems that society faces.
I'm just elaborating on what you said though, and the main point is that Va11-Hall-A and Papers, Please are two extremely different games with only surface-level similarities in their gameplay, so a comparison such as this video seems rather unfair, especially when the conclusion Matthew is pushing is that one should become more like the other, despite their goals being very dissimilar.
Seems to me MM wanted something out of Valhalla it wasn't going for to begin with.
Which doesn't make what he's saying wrong, I actually thought to myself as well that the drink mixing should have more of an effect (though it does have more of an effect than portrayed in this video). Obviously the game could be better in a variety of ways. But the comparison to PP seems kind of, like he said, superficial.
Honestly I would never have even thought that these two games were remotely similar. I'm not sure why you ever particularly thought so.
I did. They're not similar if you've been paying attention to them, especially before Va's release (which I've been doing; I've had eyes on this game since before even the demo like a year ago).
Both games use their interface to simulate a workplace, and you interact with many strangers, whose narrative can change according to your decisions
he literally explains why he thinks they are similar at the start of the video
They're similar in interface, but the genre of their content is very different.
One is cyberpunk covered in a veneer of 4chan's weebshit-based culture (and it is; don't pretend that's not what is implied with "cyberpunk waifu bartending"), and the other is a grimdark recounting of the embellished life of a hypothetical "citizen" under a caricatured "socialist" regime.
One of them has a small cast of characters (despite taking place in a world where the "individual" isn't really valued); the other has a nearly-limitless flow of nobodies moving through it (of which you are one)
One is colorful and really whimsical at times; the other is drab and cold.
One is high-tech; the other is low-tech.
One puts you on a strict time limit; the other is laissez-faire.
I'm just saying they're so different that I question what made Matthew even think that it was appropriate to make a whole video comparing the two. I listened to the whole video, but nothing he says really makes it make sense to me. It's like making a comparison on the difference between Danganronpa and Ace Attourney, which are, once you take a good look, very hard to compare, instead of a good comparison (like, say, comparing Sonic CD to Freedom Planet or something like that).
these are videogames, you compare them based on mechanics and how they convey the story through them, not on story themes u silly man
There are parts of the game where you need to remember special drinks though? Donovan's usual drink, Alma's favorite drink, what Dorothy likes when she feels down, figuring out Virgillo's riddles. Getting these right rewards you with special dialogue and bonus endings and they don't remind you what they are, you need to remember.
4 years late but they're still very few and far between that they don't feel significant. they don't do enough to justify the mixing minigame and why shouldn't it just have been a visual novel with the minigame scrapped and the extra time put into writing instead.
@@purplewine7362tbh, va-11 hall-a is more laid back tupe of game while papers please is tense. They both are different games and both are great.
I largely agree with the critique in this video, although I still really enjoyed Va-11 Hall-A. Like most visual novels, it feels like it just has a nominal amount of gameplay to occasionally provide a break from clicking through dialogue. That being said, Matt didn't touch on how adding extra alcohol to clients' drinks in Va-11 Hall-A can unlock different dialogue paths, or how you have to remember the preferences of various characters to know what drinks to give them when they don't ask for something specific or when they're in a certain mood.
All of these features were sadly underutilised in Va-11 Hall-A but I'd like to think that was an intentional decision from the devs to create a laid-back kind of game, as opposed to them just being lazy. The story is where Va-11 Hall-A really shines though, especially with how it continually subverts your expectations by leaving all the grand stories of conspiracies and societal breakdown in the background.
I really don't see how you compare these two games (though I highly recommend to anyone reading, you play both. Both are amazing in their own ways). One is a visual novel with a drink thing mixed on top. The other isn't. Valhalla is way more dialogue focused. Papers is way more mechanical focused. Of course you did bring up some fair criticisms (such as them not really noting the wrong drinks), but I just feel comparing the two is silly.
And I think if you're going to critique the game, you should focus on all of its aspects rather than just the issues you have with it, and somehow make it seem like the game is complete shit. Not once did you really bring up the story (as you pointed out), when that was really the main aspect of the entire game. It'd be like focusing on Call of Duty for it's campaign writing rather than the multiplayer.
Either way, an interesting opinion. It's just one I happen to disagree with.
Yeah agreed, unfortunate because a lot of people will take MM's opinions as objective fact and the game'll come under fire for it needlessly
"Not once did you really bring up the story"
Congratulations, you missed the point of the video. It wasn't specifically focused on the overall quality of the game at all. It was pointing out shortcomings/disappointments in the gameplay and how vall halla could of taken influence from papers please.
Yeah I am with you, it's an odd comparison.
I acknowledged that though. And I clearly said I just found it odd how you could compare the two games, since they're not going for the same thing at all.
Waifu Rider How does that discredit the comparison to their gameplay? Make an argument....
I don't understand how people fail to grasp the comparison Matt is making. He established it in the video at 00:45 - "At a glance the two have a lot in common... [starts by highlighting that they're both sims where the player is a worker serving clients, they have almost identical interfaces, and they share the same workday-to-workday structure with the end day objective of making enough money to survive between those workdays]."
That's enough in common that it's fair to say these games occupy very similar genres mechanically even if they have polar opposite stories and atmospheres.
While Papers, Please has its narrative interwoven with increasingly complex gameplay mechanics, Vallhalla uses simple, static mechanics that feel superficial to its narrative. Matt is suggesting that, had Vallhalla made similar mechanical choices to Papers Please, it could have felt like a more cohesive experience rather than two unrelated things stuck together.
Last thing: I really enjoyed Valhalla! I think it's characters are charming and the experience was a simple, unchallenging balm for me while real life was difficult and complicated. ALL THAT SAID, I think Valhalla could have been even better if it had looked to games like Papers Please for lessons on how to more meaningfully incorporate story with gameplay. You can like a thing and still acknowledge its faults and consider how it could be improved.
People are too quick to jump to the apples and oranges argument. Things dont need to be carbon copies to be compared.
And now a whole bunch of people are going to call Valhalla shit because of this video. Its a shame.
Yeah, probably. The two games are at best superficially similar and the comparison just kind of falls flat to me. I wonder why Matt decided to compare the two, given the wildly different scope and style of each game.
still buttmad over dark souls 2 lol
dark souls 2 is 1/10 but valhalla is 4/10ish
THIS VIDEO ISN'T ABOUT THE OVERALL QUALITY OF VALHALLA.
Don't worry. I thought it was shit before seeing the video :^)
b-but muh waifus
Good game for waifus, indeed
Jorji is best girl tho.
Waifu bartending is literally the name of their website. They know whats up.
Papers Please so great, waifus not required.
We all know best Waifu is John
I liked the calming charm of Vallhalla, while papers please felt more stressing.
Because there was no consequence for fucking up.
James Downs I know. And thats no problem, since Vallhalla never advertised itself as a action packed game, IIRC? I mean, Visual Novels are supposed to be calming, shouldnt they?
Mike L'Angelo I've heard of nothing to suggest that they should.
I believe that Symphonic Rain can pose at least some challenge on the hardest difficulty.
Well, yes, the only challenge is figuring out the achievemet requirements.
I also really liked the chill feeling of VA-11 Hall-A. Perfect game for relaxing and eating snacks while listening to the games soundtrack.
This video actually intrigued me to try out Va-11 hall-A. Looks relaxing.
it really isn't
it's a VN with average pixel-art and meh writing.
I'd suggest to pirate it first and give it a shot.
The problem with this comparison is that, even if MM doesn't try to make Va11 Hall A look bad, he does. The main problem is that Vallhalla is just a chill game where the actual gameplay (bartending) is secondary and just used as a way to make dialogue choices (even if the player doesn't know). It focussed on giving a story where, like irl, there's not a menu where you can select the dialogue branch. PP on the other hand focussed on using it's gameplay to tell as story. Vallhalla would not work if the gameplay was primary, just as PP wouldn't work if it was a visual novel. That's why the comparison between both is stupid, and ends up with people not wanting to play Vallhalla because this comparison implies that "why play Vallhalla when you can play PP?".
The reality is that both games are amazing, and are definitely worth playing.
Wow, a game from my country featured in one of your videos! Nice
Yes, comrade! Glory to Arstotzka!
viva chavez
Lemon cider fck that :3
lmao
+xXxMartin96xXx you a dirty colombian bro?
Pretty fair points across the board but I will disagree on one thing. The game definitely penalizes the players for serving the "wrong" drinks. If you only give customers what they ask for, you're only seeing at best 40% of what the game's story has to offer. Donovan, Ingram, Sei, Stella, Miki, and Dorothy all have storylines that hinge on serving what they need and not what they ask you for.
Essentially what I felt about the game when I reviewed it last year. I liked the premise and the theme, but the main difference between Papers, Please and VA-11 Hall-A was that one of these games wrapped the theme around a compelling set of gameplay mechanics, the other didn't.
Matt's criticism of Valhalla was mostly fair but I felt like it missed the point of the game entirely. The gameplay of Papers Please is meant to be difficult and stressful. The story and setting were built specifically to enable and support that gameplay, and consequently the overall feeling.
The point of Valhalla is the setting and the atmosphere. The bartending gameplay isn't really supposed to be more than a distraction, a form of work while you get to know the people, because that's what it is to Jill. But in that respect, it plays into the story really well. You can get certain endings by paying attention to characters' favorite drinks throughout the game and by getting characters drunk at certain times. It served the purpose of the game, and likening it to Papers Please isn't a fair comparison.
All of that being said, I do agree that Papers Please is the better overall package. I think they're both great games in their own ways though, in no way does Valhalla fail at doing anything it set out to do.
"you missed the point of the setting and atmosphere!' No, he didn't. The crux of what he's saying is how "setting and atmosphere" don't make for a good game. It's part of a good game, but if that's literally all there is to one then it comes off as lazy and bad. The gameplay in Valhalla is incredibly shallow and uninteresting, and never gets better. And like Matt said, if "setting and atmosphere" is your argument, then just make it an outright visual novel.
@@_ArsNova it is a visual novel, the bartending stuff is what’s building the mood and atmosphere, it’s not supposed to be focused on it’s there for atmosphere.
I like the game but I do agree with this video entirely. The lack of reactivity and depth to the drink serving was a pretty big disappointment when the game finally came out.
I just love how excited Matthew gets whenever he starts talking about the drinks. It's subtle, but you're a through and through Irishman, Matty. 'Grats.
I think it comes down to the fact that the atmosphere which VA-11 Hall-A attempts to establish is the direct opposite of Papers Please. I've never played Papers Please, but from what I can gather, it's a game that aims to make you feel stressed and uncomfortable. VA-11 Hall-A aims to be laid back and comfortable. This can even be seen in the jobs they choose to emulate (immigration officer vs. bartender.)
Don't get me wrong, Papers Please is definitely objectively better as a game, I can see that even as someone who's never played Papers Please, and yes I do feel like VA-11 Hall-A's drink mechanics should affect the story in more ways (it does a few times, but there are only two times in the whole game where it's made obvious, plus there does need to be a lot more times when it affects the story.) However, the suggestions you make in terms of making it harder or more stressful just wouldn't work with the game's atmosphere.
Great video as always. Although I agree with pretty much everything you said I do think maybe you were a little bit hard on VA-11 Hall-A. There are more than a few instances where you need to remember things about recurring customers in order to choose the correct drink and possibly change the story route for somebody. As much as I think there should be more consequences for failure, the game's difficulty really matches the relaxing feel-good tone it has. Papers Please can be a very stressful game to play (At least I know it was for me), but VA-11 Hall-A is so much slower and lets you go at whatever pace you want. I guess mostly that's the experience I was looking for in the first place. Maybe I'm biased, Va-11 Hall-A was the first game I've enjoyed so much in a long time and stands up as my favourite this entire year.
You didn't mention the sense of physical interaction Papers Please gives you by letting you move documents with the mouse, making you align the seals, etc. with all those satisfying clicky and papery sound effects.
Always love a new Matosis video!
They do make fantastic birthday presents, don't they?
Glory to Arstotzka!
Keegan Blade Glory to bartender!
Greatest country!
Do not bother to read further, most comments are just criticising that he made the comparisson or mentioning waifus.
At the end you brushed off the fact that the devs were clearly trying to make it a completely separate game to Papers Please. I liked some of your comparisons, but found the review to be flawed in the sense that you had expectations for VA-11 to be something it wasn't and was disappointed that it was not what you expected.
I never even considered Papers Please being an influence when i played Va-11 Hall-a. Even though i guess the latter also depicts life in a dystopian society, its take on that universe is much, much less heavy than Papers Please's. We're talking about a game that jokingly calls itself waifu bartending. Basically what i'm trying to say is i don't know how relevant comparing those two games really is, it feels like comparing Gurren Lagann and Evangelion because both had mechs, if that makes any sense.
however some of the gripes you had with Va-11 Hall-a i found to be justified and if its developers ever make another game in the same vein i hope they add some depth to the game mechanics.
That was the whole point of the comparison; the use of gameplay mechanics. You can compare any two games depending on what you're comparing. I could compare Silent Hill 3 and Professor Layton if the topic of discussion was puzzles, for instance.
***** you're right actually, I guess the difference in settings was so great it distracted me from the gameplay comparisons
Oh my god, I've never actually changed someone's opinion before on youtube, I usually just get insulted. Thank you for being open minded.
congratulations on making history right there
It's not that rare to see people admit they're wrong, people just tend to highlight the bad things people say to each other rather than the good ones.
I mean being a bartender vs at border control is so different it's barely comparable, while vallhalla has influence from papers please, the story they're trying to present is so different from each other the comparison isn't fair. Vallhalla is a much more relaxing experience about a person's story and nothing else. I didn't play paper please but I assume that paper please is trying to accomplish much much more. Vallhalla just want to tell a story and be done with it. That's why it's a visual *novel* and not much of a game.
I played both and you nailed it, even if I disliked Valhalla.
Maybe people with great analytical skills are not so good at considering other perspectives.
@@Or4ANGEpm haha, yeah, or even thinking about the possibility of that
Those puns were glorious.
The critiques are absolutely valid, but I'd still say that people should give VA-11 Hall-A a shot, if only because I like explorations of fun characters and this gives an interesting set of them.
i missed you beautiful
HE'S MY WAIFU NOW!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Talking about serving a tough-guy drink with a little umbrella made me imagine a game where you influenced characters' lives primarily by messing with their drink orders. There'd probably need to be more meat to it, but...could be interesting.
I love it.
The red strings club
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN YOUNG MAN
I think Matthew broke the monotone voice he usually has a few times in this video, which I like. Anyone else notice this?
This whole video hasn't refuted the fact that Jill is best girl though
Oh boy a new video. Time to get CrAZy and bust out the sparkling cherry flavored water and popcorn
Didn't know this kind of beverage was a thing. Is it good?
If its cold yes
galaxytrain1989 What about alcoholic beverages? I can't live without wine or beer. Soft sugary drinks are nice if you consider them as desert
"by comparison, it just tastes watered down." ............. I see what you did there.
Just go and tear DARK SOULS 3 to shreds already .PLS dont let me get on my knees Matt.
You seem to have some strong opinions. Mind sharing?
I found this to be my favorite in the souls games and even I hope matt gives us a documentary of his hatred for it ^^
This shit made my Monday better.
These comments are making me think too many people really dont know what a comparison is.
How's that phrase go? Oh yeah, comparing apples and oranges.
I feel this is one of the most opinionated videos you've put out, not that that's especially bad or good, just interesting.
I know it's not labeled review or anything, and you specifically bring it up, but I do definitely think that for VA11 Hall-A, their primary goal was that PC88 style VN first, and a game about being a bartender second. And I think it does a good job of the former, but I definitely see why you'd say you see easy room for improvement and some disappointment in mechanics. Much like those old VNs, it's just a simple progression gate.
I think it's worth noting that Matt does point out this isn't supposed to be some kind of comprehensive review; It may do the former well, but that's not what this video was focusing on. Matt may not disagree with you entirely here.
TheGermandude2 That is also totally true. I guess I'm just paranoid people who watch this will dismiss the game when it does actually do what it wanted to do.
But yeah I guess I'm just being a thinly veiled apologist.
This video is worth watching simply to hear him say 'Cyberpunk'.
Comparison of VA-11 HALL-A and Papers, Please? LOL?
I think Va-11 Hall-A knew what it wanted to be, and mostly did what it wanted to be. Looking at Sukeban the developers and the resources they probably had it came out pretty well. One element of the drink mixing I liked that you completely glossed over was with the alcohol content of the drinks. It's not called alcohol exactly but one of the ingredients is what gives the drinks the alcoholic effect, and certain drinks basically let you use as much of it as you want after a minimum. Now if you just do around the minimum for everyone they wont get absurdly drunk or anything, but if you give them a lot (like max every opportunity you get) there's different dialogue and animations as the characters can get pretty drunk. It's not deep or anything, but really what the game was trying to be was a cozy experience you could drink along side. hard to get cozy with extremely hard moral choices, and a drink mixing system that penalizes you for a mistake. This Comparison is apples to oranges considering the focus on papers is very much on the gameplay while Va-11 Hall-A's was more on the characters and the mood.
That said Va-11 Hall-A is getting a sequel N1RV Ann-A and since Sukeban did have a hit, understand the engine their working with better, and have learned a lot of lessons I will be disappointed if the gameplay hasn't evolved a little bit. I could imagine some suggestions you put out implemented, but considering the drinks were basically the meaningful choices you make I feel like adding drinks that could help sober someone up instead of just drunken them would be interesting along with just more events that could happen if you make just the right drink at just the right time that you would know about by paying attention to your customers.
"Maybe they didn't intend to be like Papers Please." Because they're NOTHING ALIKE! Your comparisons are contrived as hell, like the screen being obscured by "bartender's interface", because that's the player's job.
I think that while paper please tries to stress you and make you anxious, vallhalla is more like a book with pictures that allows you to make choices. They didn't get too focused on the actual bartender game element because you should be playing it for the story not to be a bartender (there are games for what vallahalla is nothing). So, in my opinion, it should be played like a book should be read and that's why you have all the calm in the world there. In fact the only difficulty is to make sure that the game is going towards the ending you have chosen because (it happened to me) always doing perfect services to two different characters I chose the one I hadn't chosen -_-
I think this
Yeah, comparing the two games that way is a bit inappropriate imo. After all the very first thing you see when opening the game is a message telling you to go get a drink to enjoy your experience. The developers obviously had a vision for their game, and despite the superficial dystopian ressemblance, I don't think VA 11 HALL A aimed for the moral choices.
That said, I think it is good to hear criticism for what could have been improved on, it doesn't mean the game is bad, just that it could have been even better.
This is a pretty superficial comparison. It's very obvious that VA-11 HALL-A is going for something completely different compared to Papers Please. They are superficially similiar in concept but that's it. All this video does is drag VA-11 HALL-A into the dirt. Bit of a step down in quality on this one lad
He literally talks about va11halla going for something different and it having dofferent merits to papers please. He never calls it bad he just calls its brewing mechanics into question
Everything about the tone, music and vibe of VA11-HALL-A is my jam, but when i see the gameplay i just feel like i would be better suited playing Policenauts with a translation patch.
Still the waifus tho.
While I don't really agree with the comparison, I do like the fact that you're addressing the issues VA-11 had. I mean, I enjoyed the game, but that's mostly because of the characters and (somewhat weirdly paced) story giving me a real good time. In terms of *gameplay*, it's probably one of the more decent/okish ones because there isn't a whole lot of difference in it, either in difficulty or in an actual change towards the character I'm serving the drink to. It also doesn't help the fact that it's pretty easy to get the money necessary to help pay for bills and items that Jill the MC wants because of this really easy system.
If the developers for the game make another VA-11 title, or just a new game in a similar vein as Papers Please or VA-11, then i at least hope that there will be actual depth and reactions to what I do instead of just getting a half-assed "you mixed up the drink" statement.
I love your comparison videos especially, and I like how this one seemed more laid back than the others. Also, I've finally caught on that you've made it a trend to have a really neat, subtle ending line to all your videos. Good on you for the constant quality
So basically what you're saying is that VA-11 Hall-A is an inferior version of Papa's Freezeria?
NOOOO😭
The biggest similarity that Matt didn't comment on: both games have major characters who are based on George Costanza from Seinfeld
Jesus🗿
Matthew. I appreciate the scroll at the beginning. I appreciate you did that to yourself. I know it isn't hard, but god damn is it tedious.
This is too much of an apples and oranges games to make a fair comparison, you are comparing a visual novel with heavy driven and very good storie, against a unique game, both games only have in common the fact that you work in a everyday cicle.
Hey man, you should put the link to your Patreon page in your video descriptions. Makes it a little easier for people to donate, and they may feel more compelled to donate if they have they link to your Patreon page right in front of them.
Looks like Christmas came early.
This Is The Police is a pretty good take on Papers, Please, albeit a little long. You quickly have to decide whether you're going to be a hardworking policeman, suck up to city hall for everything or take payoffs from the mob
Maybe make the bartending a little harder with having a Repeat customer just order "The Usual" so you would have to remember what exactly they wanted perhaps?, oh yeah maybe the screen glitches up due to a plot related incident but no I guess the games not really about that and more absorbing the world and it's characters instead, not a bad thing of course.
"Of course, we live in the future..." is such a good line I come back just to hear it every once in a while
VA-11 HALL-A for a chill sunday afternoon
Papers Please for when your adderal kicks in
using a superficial gameplay gimmick in vn is a common trope of the genre, it's mostly used to theme the game more than anything else
in any case i can see how from a non weeb prospective this comparison whould make sense
I mean this is like comparing Koihime Musou to Total War: Three Kingdoms, both have strategy elements and are even set in the same time period but in reality they aren’t even comparable
I purchased, VA-11 Hall-A expecting something somewhat like Papers, Please. Perhaps my mistake. I did enjoy it at first but I ultimately stopped feeling engaged after a while. I very much agree with how disappointingly inconsequential the drink serving system felt. Great video as always!
All Im waiting for is that "The Last Guardian Review"
I always really look forward to your videos. I'd kill to see more frequent uploads but I suppose I wouldn't like very regular ones of lesser quality. I look forward to more
I want to thank you Matthew for your videos and all the work you put in them. Keep it up 👍😃
Thanks for bringing VA-11 Hall-A to my attention. It sure has its flaws, but even so I really enjoyed it :)
Come for the insightful video, stay for the shitty pun at the end
Just a small note, the 'mixed' part is because some drinks are mixed and some are blended (you need to let it move longer for blending). You'll see some of them ARE noted at 'blended' instead of 'mixed'.
I feel like I liked the games for two very different reasons (you mention that maybe it wasn't trying to be Papers, Please, and...I pretty much feel like that's the case. It's not insulting a game calling it 'just a VN', which it felt like you were trying to say? A lot of VNs literally have zero gameplay, not even with choices, and are completely fine and enjoyable reads. I always felt like the bartending stuff was mostly just to get you in the mindset of the character while focusing mostly of the story and that's it). I do agree that I did wish I could see more results for mucking up orders, though, you definitely have a good point there!
He didn't say that Visual Novels are inherently bad, he said that the addition of the drink mechanic did little to affect the story, and may have even hurt it by bringing the story to a halt every time you have to mix a drink, putting it in an awkward place between a visual novel and a more traditional game.
why are you even comparing these games
they're barely similar, and the parts that are similar are used in completely different ways.
4:31 If i remember correctly, Sei said something about liking the music first time she vissited since i was playing a pro white knight song :o. Other than that good video ^_^
>game is easy so it’s bad
>game is hard so it’s good
"Guilty Machonist" logic
Funnily enough regarding the timer for drink making, the Prologue originally had one but they removed it.
Haven't played either of these games but still excited to watch this video lol
*all I took from this video*
There's a cyberpunk bar-tending game??? O.o *immediately goes and buys it on Steam*
COMPARE VA-11 HALL-A WITH READ ONLY MEMORIES!!
"We live in the future" such insight :') x love you man x
"just tastes watered down" OOOOOOOHOOOHOHOHOHO BURRRRN BURNT GET BURNT VA-11 HALL-A GET FUKIN BURNT OWAAAAAAAAAAY GET BURNT YOU FUKING HENTAI GET BURNT
but i love hentai xddddddddddddddddddd
Great constructive criticism.
I think its a bit unfair comparing a visual novel with an experimental user input to an experimental game. They are fundamentally different genres of games. You wouldn't compare Myst to Mario world for example.
There are quite a few moments where remembering someones favorite drink will give you different special dialogue. Not to mention the hidden drinks not on the menu.
You are incredibly in-depth with all your videos, mate. Just subscribed today, and I have to say, the level of effort and intelligence you put into your videos is astounding, it's a real breath of fresh air. I found out about your channel from the PC Gaming Reddit in case you're wondering. Keep up the quality work mate!
Matt does video game analysis like a brain surgeon. It's amazing!
Seeing a lot of mad Valhalla fans saying: "The game is meant to just be relaxing and not have you do anything! That's the point!"
And to that I say: Sounds like a lazy excuse to have basically zero mechanical depth or gameplay at all in your game. It barely even qualifies as a "game" as it stands.
If your goal to "make people relax" and not have them do anything, then just write a book.
That's... the ENTIRE point of a visual novel. Which VA-11 Hall-A is.
@@arieelberian7614 Just seems like a lazy excuse to justify calling an almost completely uninteractive piece of visual media a "video game". Everything you do in Valhalla is so mindless and inconsequential, barring a handful of extremely esoteric drinks, it's almost farcical. This "game" and anything like it are not video games.
@@_ArsNovaalright then, let's go back. What is a video game? From what you're saying, visual novels aren't video game because it's "just clicking buttons" but most people can agree that they're still video games
You remind me of my literature teacher in highschool, always demanding students to analyze stuffs that weren't there.
@@zokya6822 That's biased.
"stuffs that weren't there"
You could have done with a few more extra lessons though.
From what I remember from dev blogs it seems that this game was going to have more features but problems came up and they took a lot of them out. I guess when the game got to a decent state they made the decision to release it so they had something. Even its sequel is having development hell issues to the point that they had to start over.
Nice work on the introduction of Papers Please
Finally, another one. I´m always excited for more videos.
I finished both games and I can finally watch the video
I loved Va-11 Hall-A, but I can agree with this. The drink mixing does fall flat in reactivity, but there are some moments where it's really great. Like you can load the fuck up drinks with optional amounts of Karmotrine to get certain characters piss drunk during certain conversations. That being said, I feel that there weren't enough moments to do this. It was my go-to strategy to get people plastered and even after serving drinks with an incredible amount of Karmotrine, they wouldn't get drunk. This complaint also goes back to the reactivity. It's an idea that was fleshed out, but not given many times to shine.
I didn't really care about it not being complex though. The point of the game in the end was to be treated like a visual novel, not offer complex drink mixing.
Paper Please is just a story with settings. It doesn't answer much questions in a spiritual level. When you finish the game, the feeling is: well, I finally finish this game. Player won't care for the characters of the game. Not even Geogie (the one who keep asking for our help).
For Va11-Hall a, it is an opposite experience to me. It really answers a lot of questions any teens may ask. "what is real? what is the meaning of existence? What's the difference between a man and an android (some Philip K Dick thing)? If LGBT can get marry, why can't I marry my dog?" Sometimes when the story is not suggesting an answer or asking the question, it is observing or reflecting the society. At the end, the character shows their own emotion and we care for them. Just like what Jill said 'but then I read a novel and I know I care enough for the characters. I know the feeling is true even though the characters are fake.'
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So to me, the only thing that is similar in these two games are like what you said ' the systems of the two games are similar', but other than that, theses two are totally different gaming experiences. Btw great video. I can see you put a lot of effort in it.
: )
The unironic usage of the word "waifus" in the description of VA-11 Hall-A's Steam Store page immediately reduces my interest in the game by about 90%
I enjoyed it immensely as a guy who practically despises anime as a genre. Also this review is utter crap, I doubt he was ever paying attention and a lot of things he says aren't in the game actually are.
>implying it's unironic
The Q&A on the game's website literally says: "No, the waifu thing is just an epic prank to make people buy this game."
Tristan Littke
“anime as a genre”
Yes, Cowboy Bebop and Himouto Umaru Chan are in the same “genre” apparently.
It's ironic dummy
>Literally has a waifu as a profile picture
Woof.
just tastes watered down.... you proud of that one?
Amazing content. Keep up the good work, all the best. And try Coffee Talk if you haven't yet, I have a feeling you're gonna love it.
Next up: Matthewmatosis compares Steins;gate to Timesplitters.