Epson P5300/P5370 Making an A3+ black and white print on RR Baryta paper. Using the B&W print mode
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 08. 2024
- Printing black and white photos on baryta type paper [Red River Big Bend 310] on the Epson P5300/P5370 using the black and white print mode [ABW] Media and settings selection.
Baryta papers perform very well with the pigment ink P5300. I have a test looking at two Red River papers on the P5000 [and PRO-200] at
www.northlight...
The papers are available via Red River www.redriverca...
The P5300 [P5370 in the US] is here for me to produce a detailed review, which will cover all aspects of using the printer as well as compare it with the 17" P900 and P5000 printers. Epson's new high end photo/art printer has 10 pigment inks, 200ml carts, roll paper [with cutter] Sheet paper cassette holds up to 17"x22" and A2 paper.
The paper shown here is the same as: Pinnacle Silk Baryta 310 available in the UK from Paper Spectrum [a local supplier here in Leicester]
www.paperspect...
I've another video looking at setting up a new P5300/P5370 [38 mins]
• Setting up the Epson S...
My P5000 and P900 reviews:
Both contain links to related articles and videos
www.northlight...
www.northlight...
For a full index of all my videos, see:
www.northlight...
-----------------
If you'd like to make a small donation, I have a Kofi page:
"Buy me a coffee" ko-fi.com/keit...
-----------------
My articles and videos are always free to access.
Any help with running this channel is gratefully received.
-----------------
I also have some affiliate links which earn me a commission if used.
US Amazon photo/print gear: amzn.to/3l9vJC6
B&H Photo: www.bhphotovid...
Adorama: www.adorama.co... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
And i remember my clothes smelling of darkroom chemicals too back in the day. Even after using an apron. I don't miss that one bit.
Yes, a distinct 'memory smell' for me
Keith, wrt the print estimate display, it's the same with the P900. Its always been off by a few minutes. I noticed that the printer does some internal housekeeping after the print has ejected.
Yes - I wondered about that - I don't have a 900/700 here any more to compare - thanks
Hi Keith, thanks another great video. Wondering, have you seen any of the metamerism (that rainbow like effect) you saw from the P900/700 in B&W?
Less it seems - I still have a proper test of this to do. I need to find if I've still got some of the paper I used for that specific test
@@KeithCooperThanks for getting back. That’s good news, I see that issue from the P900 on the RR Big Bend Baryta and just about every glossy type paper I’ve tried (there are two Canson papers where it is less). It shouldn’t bother me, but I can’t unsee it (it also shows up on color prints with light areas, I think it’s from the magenta inks mostly).
Just run off 7 ABW prints on PLPP260 at the 7 settings from 1440 to super max extra double plus plus or whatever
1440 and 1440 +BEO look fine but obviously the dots are a bit more visible on close inspection. Going to 1440 photo looks better up close. Then as you go up the quality scale, the bronzing [interference type patterns] I saw in the P700/900 testing becomes more visible
I need to let the prints dry and run through my spectro but the 1440 photo is as far as I'd want to go for B&W with this particular Epson paper
I think it is a bit better than the p900/700 but with the proviso that I tested it on sheet media with the 700/900 @@hankroarkphoto
Hi Keith,
Regarding Epson ABW mode, do you often have to make some Color adjustments in the dedicated panel ? And if so, is it possible to create a "preset" when switching from different papers ? Many thanks
The only adjustment I make with some printers/papers is a tint to adjust for the slight overall tone of the ABW on some papers - so, with the P5000 on some papers, a -5 helps get closer neutrals, - the 5300 does not need this
These adjustments are stored in my normal Mac printer driver pre-sets if I need them. Getting this value is why I do the B&W test sheets
See the main [written] review for when I tested the two RR Baryta papers
www.northlight-images.co.uk/two-baryta-papers/
Keith, I've been enjoying all of your videos about the Epson P5300 (P5370). Can the top sheet feeder accommodate a Red River Paper 17 x 25 in. sheet to make a 16 x 24 in. print?
Thanks
Not a paper size here, but yes the paper guides go to 17" [marked US-C]
You'll need to create a custom size for the 25" length I suspect.
It certainly prints A2 (420mm wide on the smaller side or 16.5") - but Keith repeatedly said this is a P5000 with a P900 print head and the P5000 prints to 17" width (432mm) so, my guess, that is your answer
Hi Keith,
Thanks for another great video and an amazing print. On the low-levels of ink topic, I've a couple of questions...
Do you recommend buying to whole kit of ink and then replace them 1. as they run out or 2 swap the whole set?
How's the cost with the inks? + also compared with other systems?
any other maintenance disk required?
your wealth of knowledge will always be appreciated, thanks again for shareing
Rock on 🤘
I'm still running on the startup set The light grey is indicated as low, the other light colours are next, then the rest.
If on a budget, those are the first three I'd get
Maintenance tanks have lots of space left - the borderless one is almost untouched
Thanks! GtK, as I happen to have at least one sheet of Red River Big Bend 310 (from one of those sampler packs you love so much - ha ha - it also includes Palo Duro Baryta 300) and my P900 uses the same inks as the 5300. I also generally use Epson Print Layout and ABW for B&W prints. I am curious as to why (and how--I know you cover that separately) you created a custom profile for this paper when Red River supplies ICC profiles for all of its papers. What would you change?
I love baryta (especially for B&W) and I'm bummed that Epson Legacy Baryta is no longer available (in sheet--they have limited availability of Baryta II in rolls). Meantime, it's good to see that you got "quasi-silver-gelatin" results with the RR and thanks for the tip on Black Enhance Overcoat--I have noticed some slight bronzing with that, if you view the print from certain angles (that was with my "default" Epson UPL). However, with good lighting and the right location, things like bronzing and reflective differences are less evident (soft light when viewed straight on looks good). Yeah--I don't miss the darkroom either (especially the unfortunately toxic smells, although like those like oil paint, it does bring back memories)...
Addendum: I have found a potential source for Epson Legacy Baryta II but before ordering, I want to read through this rather lengthy, technical review of Epson Legacy Baryta II (comparing it with their Platine) that you may find interesting: photopxl.com/epson-legacy-baryta-ii-paper/ One concern of the reviewer is this: "One downside of the Baryta II paper in the SC-P900 printer is that if using the top feed mechanism (because thickness is below the 0.5mm threshold between using the top feed versus the front feed), I found it necessary to help the paper engage the mechanism by holding both sides of the sheet evenly and pressing down on it till the feed engages. I hope that doing this doesn’t damage the paper feed." Do you think there's a risk there? I have had some papers that required such action. Thanks again for your very helpful channel and feedback!
I make profiles for any new printer since they tell me a lot about how the paper and inks interact. I usually do B&W targets [for linearity/tone] as well. I often use bigger patch sets than many paper suppliers
I tested both of the RR papers on the P5000 - they show subtle differences
Do RR have P5300 profiles yet?
The legacy baryta is a local US product I believe? - I've not seen it here.
The P5300 paper feed is a different design and does not try and grab the paper in the same way as the 900/700
I find paper feed for the P5300 generally a lot more robust than the 900
Thank you for your videos, Keith!
To be honest, I don't quite understand the point of using such printer at home / small studio. It is big and heavy, and what is a news to me, it is so noisy and slow! Prints from roll papers always curl. Borderless printing is unavailable.
Are Epson P900 and Canon Pro1000 also so noisy and slow?
Sorry - don't really agree with your interpretation...
Every printer is different and suited to different needs. If this meets them (as it will for some) then get one, else move along, this is not the printer you were looking for ;-)
It's not particularly slow, nor is it particularly noisy. Compared to a bigger printer like the P7500 or PRO-2100 it's a bit slower, but quieter...
If you want borderless in formats it doesn't support, get a smaller printer. Borderless is a great way of messing up the insides of printers if you produce a lot of such prints - very much a 'consumer level' feature. But of course that smaller printer will be slower and likely of worse quality. But it will be quiet, if that matters...
If you want higher volumes of borderless get one of the kiosk style printers - they take roll paper [I tested the SL-D700 a while ago www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-surelab-sl-d700-review/]
Some papers curl - so what? They can be flattened, some don't show a lot of curl. The 5300 can stack sheets in the cassette.
The 900 is quiet by comparison - the 1000 a bit noisier than the 900 and weighs a lot more.
YMMV as they say
Nice work, Keith. With the smelly-hands type of paper, we had different contrast types and within the contrast envelope of papers slightly different gradation. With inkjet, this is all different. You know that too. We get the whitest white from the paper and the blackest black from the raw processing software, the ink, and the printer settings. The printer driver and other processing that is applied to the RGB pixels will matter too.
While it has no OBA, the baryta paper will probably be the whitest we can get.
The point? Does the paper still impact gradation (as in linearity or non-linearity in density regions)? If so, then e.g. the "Shadows" or "Whites" (what a misnomer) will treat gradation detail differently with the same ink being squirted on the paper. Is that possible with equally white papers?
Famous photographers like Ansel Adams (landscapes), Henri Cartier-Bresson (street), and Richard Avedon (portraits) would be almost "anal" about the gradation in their printed images (rightfully so), but how would you print their images today trying to get the same result?
Thanks
Linearity - so I have a clear connection between screen brightnesses, pixel 'numbers' and print tone. This is why those graphs appear in many of my B&W written articles/reviews.
Then, test prints [why I created my test image] so I know what I can tweak and what different papers look like/differ.
I only know such 'famous' work from screen or book - I'd simply not try. I'm not seeing 'real' prints - so I've no real idea just what the differences are.
Have either of you used the B&W effects settings with Nik Color EFX? I've heard it's good, but never tried it.
A bit too much 'effects' for my liking, Most times I only use a basic channel mixer for B&W - Sometimes Silver Efex as well and blend but this image is verging on over-done for my liking. I used it here since it is a good test for the tonality of the paper/printer. In film terms, I was OK with occasional use of a dark yellow, but red was just too much. Tried IR - quickly tired of luminous trees ;-)
I have a longstanding page on the Northlight Images site which has a collection of over 20 of my basic B&W conversion techniques
www.northlight-images.co.uk/black-and-white-from-colour/ @@MrX-zz2vk
Thanks 👍
BTW : If not downright AI, I wonder why printers (epson) would not long ago have experimented with an external full-monitor-sized graphic app that is based on customizable flux (workflow) diagram interface. A kind of checklist-aproch, leading us to choose decisions from, derived from endresults that one is coached to target, a process all the wile setting up our file-paper-ink-hardware-printing actions. Nowadays it is still totally possible to screw up at almost any stage (there are so many) either by ignorance, confusion, or by mistake and forgetfulness. It really didn't need to persist.
As someone who used to do work and research in usability and human factors - such an application would be a nightmare to design and cost a fortune to develop...
I would charge a lot of money to work on such a project ;-)
@@KeithCooper "Sure".
Hi Keith. Great video. Thanks. I've got several boxes of Epson Exhibition Fiber paper and the P700. What paper settings should I choose. I don't see exhibition fiber any more. Or did I miss something?
The profile I built as part of my review used premium luster as the base media type - see my written review for more
@@KeithCooper To clarify, which written review am I looking for? The P700? Thanks.
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-sc-p700-printer-review/
and
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-sc-p900-printer-review/
They are very similar apart from size
@@AntonioMRosario
Great video as always..Will you print canvas and tell us your opinion??
Already done - but videos are queued up for publication - maybe later this week.
Just don't think of using the cutter if you want to print much canvas - it will soon blunt the [not cheap] cutter blade and risk damaging the cutter system
@@KeithCooper probably i missed..thanks..
no - it's not been published yet! ;-)
Hi Keith great video I just bought some from paper spectrum as they chucked in some mounts where can I find the ICC profiles for this paper? Many Thanks Ken
For what printer?
@@KeithCooper oops 🤡sorry Epson SC P900, the profile on the red river site is for Big Bend Byrta EC but not sure that’s the same paper…..
There are no profiles that I know of - have you asked Dupli/Paper Spectrum? I don't have a P900 here.
I have made profiles for the RR papers I have, on the P5300 [which may well work on the p700/900] but they won't be available until I've finished the main written P5300 review, which is likely a good few weeks away.
No Worries Keith, I will mainly use for B&W and will use the Epson ABW setting.
Hello Kieth, great review, that is my go to paper from Red River. I was highly recommended , for B&W printing. Question, exactly, what is bronzing ? Thanks KB
Thanks
It's one of those terms which can cover a number of different things.
Most obviously it's where if you shine a light on a glossy/lustre print at the right angle, the ink takes on a metallic or 'bronze' look
It's very dependent on the paper, the inks and how those inks are laid down on the paper
See here for the P700/900 and effects with B&W on a lustre paper - the P5300 has the same ink set and print head, but results may differ [I need to test more]
www.northlight-images.co.uk/black-and-white-printing-with-the-p700/
Google (Q) "what is "bronzing" in inkjet printers?"
(A - from Ilford Imaging) Bronzing occurs when the ingredient which turns the ink cyan, magenta, black or yellow is too large to absorb into the paper so it stays on the top to form a dry film surface.
(note from me) The pigment, being a larger solid particle, remains on the surface and causes a bronze-like sheen visible under certain light incidence and reflection angle.
@@KeithCooper thanks Keith. Great technical article. I just checked a few of my B&W images, and I see no bronzing. Couple years ago, I decided to shoot film again. But, before I got my cameras serviced, I needed to get a printer (13×19) size I could print B&W. My old Epson 1280 could not. Some I got Canon pixma ix6820. I really needed a modern printer for color work anyway. Being retired, budget was an issue. After coming across your channel, I downloaded the B&W test print . I was amazed, how this printer , after preparing a file, produced acceptable gray scale images. No weird color casts as did the Epson. I gave up on gray scale and just printed color only.
Must B&W images are printed from film scans . However , images printed from digital images , converted from color , seem to be less gray , more towards the brownish tones. Not unpleasant , just different. So for now, I'm pretty pleased with this printer, considering only 4 inks.
How is this even possible ? What an improvement over my old Epson 1280.
Edit.I use the gray print mode in the Canon driver, too.
Modern printers are a lot more predictable [low unit to unit variation] and linear so manufacturers can put more effort into fine-tuning things like B&W
This is one of those areas, they have just got 'better' - it's also why there is much less interest in making your own printer profiles
@@KeithCooper that sure is true, Keith. Twenty years between my old Epson 1280 (now in the back of my attic) and this newer Canon. And yes , the color reproduction is as good as it gets, too. Even with non Canon papers, I only need a little adjustment, after test prints. Thanks so much. KB
Keith, In general if a printer gives a low ink message, but one prints and it runs out and stops printing, will it start up where it stopped when new ink is loaded or have you lost that print?
Some printers are supposed to be 'hot swapable' - but I've often found that the pause can leave a detectable mark on the print - maybe only viewable at an angle, but still there.
If I've an ink warning and want to do a big print, I may swap a cart for a fresh one, and then put the old one back for small prints. This is for bigger printers though, where a cart swap causes no problems with ink waste.
@@KeithCooper I have had a P900 (P906) for two years and I never change cartridges until the ink is reported as empty and I HAVE to change. I find the printer prints a lot more paper after a low warning and even after the warning I may not have enough to do a certain size print I always "continue" rather than change. I have yet to have a print to stop mid print to change a cartridge. It always seem to ask after the print has finished.
From my experience with the P900, whenever ink runs out in the middle of a print, the printer will stop, I replace the respective ink cartridge and the printer continues. Unlike @KeithCopper I've never noticed any marks.
Good observation - I don't get to test this with every printer ;-)@@joekral6116
Yes - I don't get to investigate this on every printer I test - thanks@@Wairoakid
HP z-series printers used to print "pigment-less liaison fluid" where the paper would otherwise not get covered (for instant lightbulbs, the sun, reflexions on juleries, water, ..). I would bash ANY printer who still does not care about giving us an option to use a 'transparent-ink', systematically.
Yes you can spray the print with afterwards, diminish the effect behind glas or other blabla. The point is that they dont respect the artists. It is one of those things industrials can easily do but prefer to gaslight us about.
This is the reason why I stopped 'baryra" types how ever luxurious (and gloss).
Depends on how much it annoys... ;-)
Really doesn't bother me that much - probably less than losing an ink channel for a gloss coat [such as the CO 'ink' in some Canon printers]
If I need super glossy I'll print dyes on a metallic gloss paper - not unfortunately available bigger than 13" though.
@@KeithCooper I cannot follow through a single one of your reactions to what I said.
It doesn't matter to You the unevenness of réflexions on reflective papers.. ? It bothers You more if your had to give up, say yellow, because that was to be sacrificed for a "gloss"-cartrige ??
Yup - the gloss differential is not personally an issue on many [but not all] papers - that's for me personally - as ever YMMV and it depends on how much it bothers you. It contributes to why I often avoid higher gloss papers, but is not the main reason.
I'll take a wider range of inks - yellow is not a realistic example - I'm thinking of red/green/orange/violet the so called 'pusher' colours
That doesn't mean I won't test for it and note it in reviews - a very different matter. In doing reviews over the past 20 years, I cover a lot of things which don't matter greatly to me, but I know are of importance to readers.