Roller Coaster Safety: How to Manage Too Many Trains at Once
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
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Roller coasters are pretty neat, I must say. But they rely on passive vehicles holding fragile humans while zooming around at high speeds. That can be a tough thing to manage safely, but it's not impossible. This video shows you a few ways it's done.
Space Mountain with the lights on, reset sequence:
• Space Mountain (Broken...
Expedition Everest on ride POV:
• 4K 60FPS Expedition Ev...
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The following photos are used under the Creative Commons License:
Space Mountain empty train at station: Photo by William M. commons.wikime...
X-Flight at Six Flags Great America: Photo by Magnus Manske. commons.wikime...
Whizzer at Six Flags Great America: Photo by Flickr user Eden, Janine and Jim. www.flickr.com...
Big Thunder Mountain Railroad: Photo by AmaryllisGardener. commons.wikime...
Expedition Everest Exterior Shot and Lift Hills:
Photo by Flickr user magicalfanaticism: commons.wikime...
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Expedition Everest Reversing Sections: Photo by Quarax. commons.wikime...
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Entrance to Walt Disney World
Photo by Jrobertiko. Used under Creative Commons License
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Note: Trademarks within photo are owned by the Walt Disney Company
Spaceship Earth: Photo by chensiyuan. Used under GNU Free Documentation License
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It's amazing to find a coaster video by a non coaster channel that knows what they're talking about and isnt making parks seem unrealistically dangerous.
CoasterGuy yeah, it feels kinda weird
Fun fact: When a crew member walks through Space Mountain, all the lights turn on. The easiest way to terrify people is to run the ride with the lights on.
The tracks are extremely close. They’re not kidding when they say you need to keep all limbs in the vehicle.
It’s terrifying.
My brother is closer to 7' than 6' and it is horrifying to ride rollercoasters behind him.
Elijah Damn. Tell him to keep his arms in the car at all times, eh?
I rode with the lights on during a 5th grade school trip (we got a behind the scenes tour of space mountain, haunted Mansion, pirates, etc) and you are absolutely right. There are quite a few places where it seems like you'll hit your head.
Yeah. no.
6'3" & former WDW Space Mountain Cast Member. Worked Space Mountain for 5 years. (2006-2011)
Worked at Disney World in attractionsfrom 2005 to 2015.
I can tell you from experience that there are 2 places where MY hands can touch any part of the ride structure, and even those are a stretch, and neither place is where the ride vehicle is going anywhere close to fast. (Space mountain's top speed is 27 miles per hour) Also both of them are on what we call B side, the shorter of the 2 tracks.
Just because something LOOKS close while its in motion, doesn't mean its actually close to you.
I assume you can't seriously hurt yourself if you don't listen to them. Wouldn't be good news for Disney if their rides would rip of arms or legs.
My grandfather, who was an electrician in the navy, once fell into the water at pirates of the Caribbean trying to figure out how they did the fireflies at the start of the ride.
naapalm82 oh my god hope he made it out alright!!
Chris Schnizer He came out of the water alright. The only thing that was hurt was his pride. I’ll also point out this happened in the 70’s and he lived for another twenty years.
The firefly effect is a single light hanging on a string with one side covered with black tape. Hidden in the trees is a fan that blows it around making it swing and flash.
naapalm82 I love your grandpa
Never underestimate an engineer's capability to get himself into trouble through simple curiosity. This also goes for electrical engineers (the field of electricians)
"If these marbles were vehicles containing fragile and litigious human beings..." dead-pan comedy perfected, good sir!
It's one of his strong points! Real talent
Me : *played way too much Rollercoaster Tycoon as a kid*
Also Me : You know, I'm something of an engineer myself.
Came looking for this comment and was not disappointed. When he was talking about having a single starter lift hill I recalled a coaster i constructed where the train went down a hill at the beginning and then was dragged back up at the very end into the station. I called it "Opposer"
As a kid I didn't know about block sections; I'd just make a really really long train and only have one train per coaster to avoid crashes.
@@ENCHANTMEN_ honestly might be for the best as block brakes and stuff can fail and it is hard to properly plan for those scenarios
The 114 year old NYC subway system works on a similar block signalling type of system. Only 1 train can be in a block section at a time, protected by a signal. As an added precaution if a train goes through a red signal a trip arm on the track automatically engages the train's brakes. The motorman (driver) can override the system but only with permission of the control tower.
Toronto's too, and presumably many others. And another similarity that Space Mountain has with subway operations is that there is always a two-block separation between trains.
The other approach to subway train control is a rolling block system (which the TTC is in the midst of transitioning to), which allows even closer spacing. I don't think that would be possible for a roller coaster that isn't self-powered, though.
Block Signalling has been a thing since the inception of railways. It's been required by law for every railway in the UK since 1889. not exactly a new concept.
On british railways the block system has evolved over many years to need one block section PLUS a specific overlap after a signal between trains, so that it gives the driver time to react to the signal and to have a margin for error if for example the driver passes the signal at danger while still braking. In practice it works extremely well, and they don't have to hide the systems from the passengers!
ALL railways use block control. (With the possible exception of railroads where they KNOW there will only be one train using it.) Doesn't matter if you're talking about freight trains, subways, or roller coasters (which, incidentally, the US Patent Office STILL calls "scenic railroads").
dfc99nyc The NYC Subway is getting CBTC on the 7 and the L already has it. This allows trains to run more frequently than trains on lines without CBTC.
The use of multiple lift hills and planned stops is genius. It's both a safety feature and it builds suspense. Amazing.
Another consideration is that each stopping point, the train must be able to return using only the potential energy from the elevation, not the kinetic energy, since it is starting from a dead stop. This means on an inverted loop, it needs to build up enough speed to have enough momentum to complete the loop or a mid track lift hill to add back more potential energy. Friction will also vary by temperature, and if the ride is outdoors, wind and humidity in the air - so it needs a lot of safety buffer
I miss the days of working Space Mountain! I knew all the ways around the Doors to get into the "cage" and wander around in the dark! So many hidden passages! It was AMAZING!
"I will fix the Yeti someday." -Joe Rohde 2013
I hope he does, I would love to see the Yeti in his full glory.
the sad part is the yeti is gonna require extensive downtime for the ride due to the support that its on needing to be essentially rebuilt, though considering how long the ride has been there it should be getting a refurb soon
I saw somewhere that they will need to completely dis assemble the mountain because it was built around the concrete pillar that the Yeti sits on.
The yeti isn’t actually broken, it’s off because it is so heavy and moved so fast it was damaging the foundation.
Now that avitar section is open there is a much higher chance he will be fixed. Disney does not like closing the number 1 atraction in a park for such a "small" thing. As it would cost them so much not only to fix but it would cause a huge drop in pepole going to that park.
Ive heard recently he's getting fixed finally
MIND = BLOWN! As a Florida resident, I've been to all of those parks many, many times, and it never did dawn on me how this was an issue and how it was managed. I always knew that multiple trains were running, because I could hear others yelling all over when you're on the ride. Incredible video! You make dissecting topics like this so easy to understand.
I love how they also thought about the lights, as shown in that video of Space Mountain. They light up slowly, allowing peoples eyes to adjust, instead of blinding everybody by throwing them full power immediately.
I thought they were sodium or mercury vapor lights, so they naturally turn on slowly. I wouldn't think that was the original intent, at the time they were probably the brightest lights you could get, so they didn't have to put lights every 10 feet. If the fact that they turn on slowly is the reason they keep them (as opposed to changing to LED or something else that's essentially instant on) then good on them for realizing what you said.
It's actually more simple than that, in the control tower there's the worklight panel. It has a few dozen toggle switches for the banks of lights, they gradually come on because we can only flip half of a row of switches on at a time.
I've ridden Space Mountain at WDW with the lights on. There was an event for cast members. It was different for sure.
I remember seeing Space mountain down for maintainence on the people mover once.
@@krozareq I was on it during some kind of building maintenance with the lights on. I've been on "scary" rides before at other places and have never been startled or scared by them, but space mountain with the lights on as you do 27mph directly at a beam and then duck out from under it at the last second on every single bend and dip is just..... horrifying.
My favorite technical jargon during this video was "squeezy bits". 7:02
The word "apparatus" is just the scientific way to say "thingy"
DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT TOUCH HIS SQUEEZY BITS!!
Your videos are great!
I learned about marbles today!
You are both absolutely amazing! My mind cannot comprehend that you, Mr. "I can build my own electron microscope" Ben Krasnow, also watches Technology Connections! I mean, its a smaller channel (with absolute awesome videos), but still lesser known. This makes me very happy, have a good day! :)
Applied Science "You're".. dude..
Its "your" as i read his comment now. Did that change from "you're", was it edited?
Leo Curious keep your god damn curiosities in you're pants, leo..
"Fragile and litigious"
That's pretty good.
Fragile & Litigious 2: 2 Fragile 2 Ligitious
Fellow nerd here, **waves** I grew up near Disney World and was lucky enough to have visited on the first week of it's opening and went at least once a year for many years. I too have been hugely impacted by not just the technology on display, but the "It's a small world" and family friendly philosophy of the park. I have tons of great memories. Thanks for your videos!
Hey! I am a founding officer for the Theme Park Engineering and Design group at Virginia Tech. I love your video and may show it at one of the upcoming events. In addition, I can explain some of your grey areas you had mentioned. On any roller coaster, as well as most other rides such as tower rides and some flat rides, there is not one computer, but two. I have direct knowledge of this with Kings Dominion's Intimidator 305. This coaster boasts two computers and two sensors at each point such that if one sensor is triggered, the other must be triggered in a fraction of a second as well. If this does not happen, the main computer checks with the backup computer and then triggers an emergency stop throughout the ride. If you want more information on how this works, including various schematics or photos from rides, please contact me!
Oh man that little detour to your Marbleworks setup just rushed back some awesome early childhood memories for me lol. That's something I'd all but forgotten about...
Two more items to think about during any rollercoaster is weight of the train and chain lift hill block sections. Space mountain secretly weighs each vehicle before it runs the track then calculates when it should let the train go. Also with mutiple lift hills they can change lift speeds to adapt to slower or faster moving trains.
Stumbled across this awhile ago. I just got back from Disney, and had the experience of riding the people mover while Space Mountain was broken down. Definitely interesting to see. Whatever the cause of that breakdown, it took awhile to fix, about 1 or 2 hours at least. Could hear the lift chains running but no rockets on the tracks.
I love the new stuff that’s being done - such as magic bands meaning you don’t actually have to go to the picture booth on a ride and tap to get your picture - the ride knew you were on it and the in ride photos automatically appear on your photo library.
We were there for the last two weeks. Biggest downside was that due to volume of people and investment elsewhere, there were many more broken down rides than I’ve experienced there before. The upside is that we got lots of generic fastpasses :)
Ok, so I've never seen your videos or channel before, but this video showed up on my recommendations so I figured "why not". I can honestly say that I have never before been this interested to listen to someone talk about safety. You killed it dude! Very informative, great voice and excellent enthusiasm about the topic. Thanks for teaching me something new in an entertaining and fun way. Keep up the good work :)
I forgot how much i love your informative videos. Me being an engineer/electrician always needs to know the backside of the magic, and it doesn't ruin the illusion for me (truthfully enhances it). Please continue making these great videos, sub for life :)
I found this really interesting, in part because about 20 years ago I rode Space Mountain in California and the ride suddenly stopped and the lights came on. I just thought it was really cool seeing everything with the lights on. I had no idea about the safety features. It was also cool they just let everyone ride again!
Great stuff! I like how Disney uses block sections in Indiana Jones/Countdown To Extinction by incorporating 3 separate "lift" hills in the beginning and disguises the stops as the jeep "breaking down" during the ride--among other details :)
Excellent video, I was on Space Mountain back in 1993 and it had broken down, I thought it was a power failure or something, and I remember sitting in the dark stopped for some period of time. Being deathly afraid of heights, it was especially terrifying. I thought I'd have to walk down those mesh-style stairs you see at Six Flags in Gurnee all the time. Thankfully, that wasn't the case and the ride restarted. I'm not sure how that is possibly now, but I was a young kid at the time and don't remember a whole ton about it.
As a nerd myself I feel obligated to point out that block sections are not just an invention on Disney's part.
Also... A block break must be able to re-start the train's movement through the course if safe.
Lastly... There does not specifically have to be a block section between 2 trains, 2 trains just simply cannot be in the same block sector. You'll see this on many major high thrill and capacity coasters where they may have a train in the station, and a train just outside of it on the brakes (final break run). Coaster Bot on YT has an excellent video on this subject as well.
Can't MCBR (mid course break runs) help capacity as well? Therefore you have one train in the station, one train before the midcourse, and one train after the midcourse?
I saw a video of a ride stoppage/restart at Space Mountain, and it wasn't exactly smooth. Staff had to walk the track from the station to the last block section, then release that train, get confirmation that it had reached the station, then walk the track to the previous section, release that train, wait for confirmation, etc. The ride wasn't being evacuated, and guests were told that they could at their leisure either get out at the station, or stay in the car for a chance at an uninterrupted ride.
As a ride op, for all the rides I have worked you are not right with the second part. Station is 1 block section waiting/ready (whatever who ever programmed the ride calls the brakes before the station) is another block section and not the same.
Most rollercoasters generally are made up of 5 block sections.
Lift, Mid, Main, Waiting, and Station. (Naming conventions are different per programmer but generally the same concept)
I got so confused! Being from Europe I only visited Space Mountain in Paris (until recently). That Space Mountain is actually a launch coaster with a looping in it. Realizing the original is more like a fun coaster ride instead of the thrill ride I grew up with was really unexpected!
The mine train coasters at the Six Flags parks use the multiple lift approach to have up to 3 trains on the track. The old control system had a big display board that showed where each train was on the track.
They used to have a person stationed at the top of each lift to (I presume) monitor everything was okay.
@@TonyP9279 They were actually just there to make sure idiots didn't stand up on the lift hill.
Source: am Six Flags (St. Louis) employee and big time coaster nerd.
Six Flags: Because we let you see the cool parts.
The Beast (at King’s Island) has 2 hills, also. Had cameras at the top of each hill so we could monitor where all the trains were.
This video is so interesting! I recently rode Expedition Everest and our train was held for longer than normal during one of the reversing sections (inside the mountain when the yeti projection pulls the track apart) the yeti video had completed so we were just staring at the wall, and it got to the point where our whole ride car was panicking about getting stuck/a breakdown. Now I know the engineering behind it - so helpful!!
My adult daughter got stuck at the top of EE, and had to walk all the way down. It was at the end of May this year, and HOT!
I always wondered why my first trip on Expedition Everest had a 30 second wait before it went in reverse when we first rode it, but a 10 second wait when we rode it later that day.
Excellent video and informative. Here’s some additional information to research if you want to make a part 2. Disneyland’s Matterhorn, the first steel tube coaster, also has two intertwined tracks and runs multiple trains on each track. But it opened in 1959. I know the ride has been upgraded over the years but can you imagine what the original, analog, control system must have looked like?
I've just binge-watched a number of your videos. Great work and very pleasant delivery. While others may be loud or tell idiotic jokes every 3 seconds, your videos remain classy and informative. Very watchable presentation :)
I’m a coaster enthusiast and I was nervous that this video was going to be another GP CZcams video but it wasn’t and I have happily surprised. Great video!
Great video! I worked at Space Mountain in WDW in 2015, so this much appreciation for the ride makes my heart happy. I loved the "computer" clip as well--the ride control tower is actually a little more hidden, but it's a great visual, isn't it?
Never in my life did I think I find something as mundane as how trains stop interesting. You, sir, have earned a new subscriber, for making something mundane interesting & fun to learn.
Just wanna chime in on Expedition Everest, at the reverse point with the yeti footage I’ve had my car sit there for about a minute, so can confirm it’s a control point.
A great video, I really enjoyed the discussion of how Disney combines ride safety systems with theme elements. Genius.
"Please fix the Yeti."
Subscribed!
While you're there, can you find my glasses? Lost 'em there in '06.
WOW! We were just at WDW last month and this just blew my mind. Thanks for the journey "behind the scenes". Makes me appreciate the park all the more!
If you can safely manage "too many" trains, you do not, by definition, have too many trains.
You sir, are technically correct. The best kind of correct.
Eric Taylor this is unironically deep
What he means is that you would normally have too many trains but because of this you can have that many safely
This
Mined boomed
For those of you who are unfamiliar, a block zone is a section of ride that only one train may occupy. At the end of a block zone is a method to stop the train in case the block zone ahead is still occupied. This is the safety system that prevents roller coaster trains from colliding with one another
This is silly, go eltoro
Came here for this
was waiting for this one lol
Awesome video! If you want an even more insane piece of hardware where the mechanical workings are hidden by theming elements, take a look at the operation of the "Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey" rides at Universal parks, they combine robot arms, moving vehicles, and rotating screens to make for a completely immersive attraction, and the underlying ride system is a marvel of engineering
I was on Space Mountain once when we abruptly stopped midway through because of exactly what this video talks about. They turned the lights on and escorted us out of the ride, and we got to go again as soon as the ride reset. Seeing the interior with the lights fully on was kind of surreal, like looking behind the curtain.
There was another time I got to see behind the scenes of Space Mountain, but that was in Disneyland Japan, when they had to bring me to a room to make sure I actually fit in the car (I'm 6'4", and Japan isn't really designed for that. I did fit, but the car was noticeably smaller than the US counterparts)
Spectacular video! I love the example of Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain to represent how Rollercoaster operation and safety operates. It's very sad that many people don't appreciate or even notice how much work goes into these rides for safety, detail, etc. so seeing a video where someone explains it for people who don't know make theme park fanatics like me extremely happy! Definitely liked and subscribed!
Also, Disney, if you're reading, please fix the Yeti.
This is my absolute favorite video of yours! The straightforward way that you deliver information makes things crystal clear!
Block sections are very similar block signal systems on railroads. Allow me to explain: the track is split into sections, or blocks. A low voltage dc current runs through the track. If the circut is shut by the train, the signal behind that train changes to red and will not permit another train through that block until the first train has safely made it through. This idea is used all over the world and manual versions have been in place since the mid 1800s.
Really enjoyed this more than I expected to (I only watched it because you uploaded it, otherwise I'm not sure I would have)!
I too am a unabashed Disney theme park fan, having been there as a child, as an adult without children, and with my children, all many times. I also find I am most attracted to the careful attention Disney puts into its park, and the parts that often fascinated me in the past were the details put into their lines, the clockwork-like mechanisms that keep their street shows moving so that everyone can enjoy them while simultaneously keeping the park clean as if they were never there at all, and yes, the efficiency of keeping huge lines constantly moving.
The lines: Disney, more than any other parks I've been to, seems to understand that the line can be an entertainment in and of itself. A ride like Toy Story Mania has huge toys that make you feel like you're the size of the toy, where the Great Movie Ride has movie clips to watch on a big cinema-sized screen, and yet again a ride like The Haunted Mansion has things to touch and play with and makes you feel like you've started the ride when you're actually still waiting to take a seat.
The "street" performances and parades seem to happen in such a way that it makes the audience feel special for happening upon them, but not so often as to feel redundant or less special. But equally as impressive is that after the parade passes through and confetti or fake snow or whatever the season calls for has landed on the ground, there are people sweeping it up immediately after so that if you walked through a mere two minutes after a parade, you wouldn't know there was a parade at all.
There's also a lot of different ways they keep slower rides moving constantly and the engineers there think of many ways to keep rides feeling different and yet keep them moving through the seemingly untenable crowds.
That's about enough gushing, but thanks for the video and it's definitely about time I support you on Patreon.
OMG I MISS MY MARBLEWORKS NOW!!!! That was one of my favorite toys as a kid. Thanks for putting them in your video, you gave me happy memories :) Also, I actually had no idea they were called Marbleworks, so that's cool. I learned a lot from this video as usual!
I still have original Marbleworks from when I sold Discovery Toys from 1984 - 1989. Everybody loves them❤
I experienced an emergency stop on Space Mountain at Disneyland Anaheim. All of the cars instantly stopped and the floodlights lit up the entire building. I was fascinated with the entire structure that comprised the ride.
The cast members were amazing, insuring the riders were not traumatized, and offered everyone a chance to go again for free if they wished. It makes you appreciate the care the designers went through when creating the ride. Needless to say I went again!
As an aside, there was once a small museum upstairs elsewhere in the park, where the original scale model of the Anaheim ride was displayed. Looking at it, you appreciated that the speed, angle, and G forces were originally calculated by hand. Obviously no computers assisted the engineers who designed the original. Truly a masterpiece of design!
Never been to Disney. Didn't think this would be interesting either, but I should have known better from you! Another great job!
Great comment!
This coast is at Hershey Park, if you try to find it at Disney you will be disappointed!
Another awesome video. I had frequently, albeit passively, wondered about stuff like this when I visit Disney World. Also love your attention to detail at 6:11 when you saw you had two marbles too close together.
You're awesome and deserve more subscribers!
I have been watching this channel for only a relatively short period now, and cannot for the life of me understand why it does not have many more subscribers. Another brilliant video! Thank you :)
Thanks for this and your other videos. I was inspired by Walt Disney World’s technology just like you. I like the water bridge between Bay Lake and the Seven Seas Lagoon, and inspiration because it demonstrated their view of “why do it the plain way (a car bridge over the water), when we could do something cool (a boat bridge over the cars).”
“I’m a nerd. Deal with it.” 😊 Well isn’t that exactly *why* we watch this channel? Because we’re all nerds and want to learn more about obscure engineering topics that no one else bothers with? 🤓
Ah yes, brakes are obscure
Amazing. This content is what CZcams is designed for, fun, educational and engaging.
Alton Tower's 'The Smiler' is a pretty good example of why these systems are necessary
And why you should evacuate a coaster before restarting it after it did an emergency stop.
The smiler crash wasnt because of ride systems. it was because of human error. the workers added a 4th train to keep up with demand of the guests and didnt communicate well enough with the mechanics that thought there were only 3. the mechanic was called to restart the after the stop. the mechanic confirmed that he could see one on the lift hill, one waiting to enter the station, and and one in the station. he didnt know there was a stalled train on the loop. he restarted the ride, and the train hit into the stalled train. this was because the mid course breakrun is after where the stalled train is. goodbye.
Space Mountain FL runs 13 trains per track with 2 back up trains in storage and has the most backups at unload. Occasionally a train can be sent to storage, with or without passengers to keep things running. If a train runs light (4 passengers or less) a button is pushed to allow a 26 second interval, allowing a lighter train more time to clear the "block". You're video has an excellent explanation of block brakes! When 1 train runs too slow, it causes a "cascade stop" and each train must be manually pushed by a cast member. There are 14 blocks throughout Space Mountain WDW. I recall 4 of the blocks being on the lift hill. When a cold train (stored train) enters the track, the computer reads the barcode on the brake fin and automatically allows 26 seconds behind it, to allow additional time. WOW! Your video brought back memories from the late 1990's!
From the railroad industry, I can tell you that "blocks" are what we refer to segments of track as.
From playing Factorio, I can confirm this
California Screamin' (which is currently being re-themed into the "Incredicoaster") at Disney's California Adventure is another great example of Block Sections in action. The ride has a stop built into its normal ride cycle just like Expedition Everest (specifically, the holding area before its launch), a double loading platform just like Big Thunder, a lift hill mid-way through the ride and multiple straight sections that can stop the train if need be. It also has very long trains that can hold up to 24 people (except for one that can only hold 23 due to having a wheelchair transfer seat) with all those block sections allowing up to 5 on the track, creating a maximum capacity of *119 people* at once! Because of all this, it has always typically had the fastest moving line of all the really popular attractions on the Disneyland property. I've *rarely* seen it have a line longer than 30 minutes, even on the busiest days.
Pretty much similar to how railroad safety works, so that more than one train can be on a route between two stations.
except regular trains can brake by they own, I don't think there is braking system on the tracks themselves (I'm in france, I don't know about trains from others country)
Johann As a matter of fact, they can brake. The tracks and the trains are one big system and on modern railroads the trains can be made to brake for example when running stop signal.
No, but there ARE generally systems on the track that tell the train to stop. Unsurprisingly, since both are about variations on the concept of a rail vehicle, there is overlap in the safety concept.
German high speed trains have emergency brakes that work either by dropping a large beam into contact with the rail (older system) or using magnetic induction with the track. (eg similar to the principle of an electromagnet, and the same basic idea as regenerative braking, but the track is one of the poles of the magnet)
Both of these are emergency systems only because they cause the track to heat up, and several applications of such a brake on the same track section could warp or even melt the track, but it is very effective at getting a train to stop.
There are also systems on tracks called derailers, which are present in many complex intersections, which ensure that if a train runs the associated signals with the points set incorrectly, it will derail in a specific place, rather than risk an uncontrolled collision with another train.
There are also portable versions of this system that derail trains in a controlled manner if they didn't stop, which are used by some repair crews.
The concept of a block section is also fundamental to railway operations. (though the most advanced systems around use something called a moving block.)
The idea behind it is that no more than one train may occupy any one block section. If for some reason this is violated, a collision would occur, but most trains and track systems have automated controls to trip the brakes on a train if it runs a signal set at danger.
The design of a block section still has to ensure however that if a train goes past the signal when it's at danger, that it will stop well before there's a risk of hitting the train in that block.
How much distance this involves depends on the line speed, and is one of the major factors in determining what the speed limits are.
How you get the train to stop also varies. Some don't have any automated systems at all, some have simple ones where there's a marker on the track that demands that the driver acknowledge a signal in the cab. If they don't, the train's emergency brakes trip. (but if they do, nothing happens, so this does pose some risk still.)
More complex systems will give advance warning to a train telling it that it's a specific distance from the next signal and what state that signal is in. Based on this and information the train itself possesses about it's own braking capabilities and it's current speed, it will estimate the speed and/or stopping distance, and apply the brakes if this exceeds a safe value, and possibly even predict whether it's current rate of deceleration is too high.
Beyond even that you have continuous signalling, where there is some system in the track (or a radio signal) that can tell the train and the control room exactly where the train is, what speed it's going, and where the next block section is.
The train can then be told in detail, at any given time, what it's maximum allowable speed is, and if it needs to slow down or stop, how quickly it needs to do so, though this is still a system based on fixed blocks, where only one train can be a in a block at a time.
An extension to this is possible if you can guarantee that you know where all the trains are, how fast they are going, and how quickly they can change speeds; This is a rolling or moving block, where the system simply calculates the minimum safe distance between one train and the next given what each train is capable of. It's rarely used so far because the systems aren't reliable enough to guarantee that this is safe...
Still... There's a lot of different ways to implement broadly the same concept - separate trains into different blocks of track, don't let more than one train into a block, and by these means you ensure that one train is unlikely to run into another.
The difference is a rollercoaster is generally unpowered, and the places it can be made to stop are in fixed locations.
Regular trains have their own brakes and can stop anywhere they like. The system has dedicated places where trains are supposed to stop, and nowadays lots of automatic systems that tell a train it HAS to stop, whether the driver agrees to it or not, but in general it's the train that has to stop itself. The trackside systems just tell it where to stop, and where it has to start slowing down to avoid the risk of a collision...
The details are different, but the general idea is the same.
If it's an electric train, you can just kill the power. Otherwise, you have to somehow tell the train to stop. The train may be responding to a signal on the track, but it's still the train that's doing the braking.
Wendy Goerl another way trains are stopped is through catch points and derails. These are special rails that can can divert trains off the track or stop the train by derailing it.
All the way through the Space Mountain part I kept thinking "Oh, there's a great video showing multiple trains getting released one-by-one on Space Mountain, I should link it in the comments and be a hero." but then you went and mentioned it and linked to it, so yeah. Good stuff.
Happened to me one time on the Peoplemover. 1 train stopped right in front of ours and we hit it hard. I was injured slightly. Thankfully I was okay.
The people movers have a habit of breaking in-between the sensors embed in the motors. This leads to the computer not realizing a train is there and not stopping succeeding trains.
I don't know why I can get so obsessed almost to the point of feeling like I'm addicted to a substance, learning about roller coaster and ride mechanical technology and also that of ride control systems like block sections, and watching the video you mentioned posted by someone else of space mountain with the lights on. You can hear the main panel operator calling out which block sections for the ride ops to go and get ready to push the train through. It's all just so fascinating. No other amusement parks have rides so complex and extremely well engineered like Disney does. :)
can you force them to open WallyWorld ?....I drove my family a long ways and they are down for repairs.
They’ll open it within two weeks once it’s cleaned and repaired.
As someone who currently works at Everest and used to work at Thunder and Space, I can tell you that most of your info is correct. Other than some of the verbiage and some missing detail, you're spot on
"Fragile and litigious human beings" 😂
Your attention to detail and easy to understand explanations are appreciated .
Great video, I love rollercoasters!!
Some of my first rides...
Python, Busch Gardens 1976
Space Mountain, Disney World 1977
Revolution, Magic Mountain 1977
Gemini, Cedar Point 1979
Minebuster, Canada's Wonderland 1981
Mindbender, West Edmonton Mall 1987
Predator, Darien Lake 1990
Mean Streak, Cedar Point 1991
Le Monstre, La Ronde 1998
... I could keep going... I think I will load _Rollercoaster_ into the VCR this evening and shake the house with some *Sensurround*
Revolution was in 1976
Agreed... but those were the first years I rode each of those rollercoasters.
Lake Nipissing, couldn't tell that by the way u wrote it. It looks like your putting the year they opened.
No worries... I added an extra line to clarify. My parents were coaster fanatics, and "dragged" me along as a kid to join them on various coasters during family vacations in the 1970s and 1980s. Many times shortly after new attractions just opened. By the late 1980s, I was riding rollercoasters by choice!
Lake Nipissing how's Space Mountain? I'm going to Disney tomorrow and I've never been there! Is it fun?
Such a good channel! I wish all documentaries had this tempo and were this interesting.
hey I am a former ride operator from six flags magic mountain and can explain what would trigger a complete ride stop and which scenarios would be able to shut the ride down. First is too many trains on the track, IE if trains get backed up into the mountain, second is if a train stops anywhere on the track and cant move. basically the first scenario will cause every brake to activate and stop all trains, this is known as a cascade failure as it cascades all the way up the ride, the second will first cause all brakes behind the stuck train to lock but if it goes far enough or takes to long to clear, then the ride will stop all trains. the first is hard to recover from and requires a reset but the second doesn't happen often at all so usually the ride can recover from it on its own without operator intervention though usually the operators will stop dispatching trains if a train gets stuck somewhere on the track before this becomes a problem that shuts down the ride. I remember one, it was taking way to long for a train to get back to the station on the ride I was assigned to, and I happend to look at the main panel to see where the train might be as we could not hear it. I had remembered roughly what time we sent the train out and realized the train might be stuck. fortunately we only had one train running that day so it wasn't a problem to stop dispatching trains and we called maintainence and got the train moving again after a few mins.
As most people from outside the US i had just one chance to ride on space mountain back when i was 10 y/o aaaaaand as soon as it started the lights went on and a voice said there was an issue and that the ride was ending. My cart slowed down and slowly did the full ride. It was quite the dissapointment, but i will never forget the look on the passangers of another cart we passed. They were stopped on a straight bit on top of a "hill" as we made eye contact pasing by.
Love the vids! moar bitte
But space mountain at disneyland has 3 initial lift hills which spaces the cars out
I love how you've taken your love for disney and technology and smashed them together in this beautiful segment (*and in your haunted mansion one as well!) Great channel! Great content!!
Disney calls them Brake Zones not brake runs.
Also, the big coasters at Disney parks use 2 or more computers to run the ride. If at any point, the two computers disagree, then the ride shuts down.
Great video other wise
I never thought I could be both educated, and entertained by a discussion of how Coasters are constructed with safety protocols to prevent disasters. Your commentary is both clear and to the point. My Son is more Tech savy than I am. I would ask him to view your videos as I feel he'll appreciate them at least as much as I do. Thanks for sharing.
"I'm a nerd. Deal with it."
I think I'll quote it on a t-shirt someday...
As a past Disney cast member and entertainment engineer, Disney has definitely shaped me and my career as well! Loved the video!
The Space Mountain train photo at 3:09 looks an awful lot like the one I uploaded to Wikipedia eight years ago. It's a small world...oh wait, that's a different ride.
Having enjoyed your channel for a while, I am personally cool with you using it and am actually somewhat flattered, but do keep in mind that while a lot of content on Wikipedia is free to use, many authors like to be attributed/credited if you use their work - it will also keep you out of legal trouble.
Judging by your username, that certainly was your photo! I'm glad you are flattered I used it, and I'll be honest I usually include image credits in the description of videos where I use stock photos. I should have done that here, and I apologize for not doing so. I will get on that. Is there a specific way you want to be attributed? That is not included in the Wikimedia file overview.
Wikimedia has a guide at commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Credit_line#Credit_lines_required_by_license on how to attribute works found there. You will probably want to mention Wikimedia Commons and my username (WillMcC) so that people can find the original if they want to look for it. I'm personally not picky.
The Mummy ride at Universal Studios also has some great themed block sections. I've actually been on that one when it was acting up and got to experience pretty much every block section in its full pausing glory. And let me tell you, when you've been on it enough times to recognize the block section that starts on a brake drop with a LIM, it is nerve-wracking to wait for the next train to clear so the LIM will start up and throw you downward.
The title is misleading. Surely it only becomes too many when you are no longer able to manage them!
Gable, that's what I thought.
To be fair, Space Mountain has to dispatch every 27 seconds maximum or there will be a cascade failure resulting in all of the trains getting stuck.
Alex Snitzer Very interesting but that does not negate what I said though. Because they know a limit and do not exceed that limit it has not become too many to manage.
Too many to run safely without brake runs.
I hate misleading titles but this one seemed fair.
Duane Degn If that is fine by you then OK, but it does not negate the fact it is misleading. From a technological view, if there was too many for the ride to manage safely then there would be crashes happening often. Just the fact that the ride operates without incidents says that it is functioning as designed. So there can not be too many. That is also true logically.
Former EE cast member here, and I currently work at another theme park. When a block section reads full by a sensor, yes, it can break down the ride, but more often it means a dispatch inhibit that can be manually reset by the tower or main control operator. However, if we do the manual reset and the sensor still reads occupied, then we call it an “auto e/101” meaning that the ride is down because it automatically emergency stopped, at which point we will do everything we can to restart the ride (depending on the ride, a full ride manual reset can be done from the main operation console) before the choice is made to evacuate, as it’s safer to bring the guests back on the train than to walk them down flights of stairs and around ride mechanisms. Expedition Everest, when I was there, had operated continuously for 10+ years with no refurb, so it had a tendency to be finicky and would auto e/ apd (auto power disconnect, not recoverable and usually means an evac) frequently. Because it happened so often we were very quick to get it going again and could minimize downtime. We ran 5 out of 6 trains under normal operations. That put the blocks consistently full, which unfortunately meant that if it took too long to dispatch a train from loading (there was a time frame of 52 seconds, and to maintain this we said “choo choo and go.” To tell us that as soon as the speech ended with a choo choo, we should be moving the train.) for various reasons such as accommodating a guest with limited mobility or doing a last minute height recheck and any number of unexciting things, it could back up blocks quickly. Starting with the brake run before the unload station, each train could get delayed and it was a matter of a two button reset in the operator console. Using security cameras, we could usually tell when a block stop would happen because we had a good feel for the rhythm and timing of the ride.
Where I work now we have an older coaster that only has two blocks and has a manual brake release at the end of the ride. If the brakes are held open too long, it leads to a block delay even though we only have one train. If the operator doesn’t notice it before dispatching the train from the station (there’s a light that changes color during a block delay), the train stops on the lift. At that point we essentially turn the ride off and back on again to reset it with the guest still on. “Stay sitting for ride reset!”
Joe Rhode keeps saying that, but he truth is that the mountain will have to be at least partially taken apart to fix the yeti and considering this years financial outlook, I’d guess it won’t be for a while.
"whoopadee-freakin-doodah"
Or did you mean "Zipadeedoodah"?
Loving the subtle hometown nods with the multiple Great America pictures.
Oh of course there are exit signs at every brake run...
I was on Space Mountain when it stopped once and they turned the lights on! Blew my mind as a kid
I like your view that this remarkable technology was being hammered out in the mid 1970s. Whenever I hear how clever today's youngsters are I always think they're riding on the back of the old people who invented the internet, the pc, the smart phone, for they were the clever ones.
Ah yes. Many times on Everest I've noticed on the reverse sections being held for longer than normal. It's slightly unsettling but this all makes so much sense!
So how did Alton Towers "Smiler" get it so wrong? The safety systems should not allow two trains in the same segment
It was ride operators fault. Coaster was having a problem so an empty train was sent. Train didn't completed the track to brake run because was too windy. They already sent next train. Ride systems stooped it on lifthill. They were waiting for 15 minutes. Ride operator thought that this is a sensor malfunction and resetted the ride. Disaster happend
thingi there is a footage of second train going into first train from CCTV
It was even worse than that--the normal ride op couldn't even do such a thing; multiple engineers had to work together to override the computer. It sounds as if their operations were really messed up in general.
Most likely due to lazyness of the operators/engineers who wanted to finish their day of work
I don't think it's unreasonable. They sent an empty vehicle, then didn't check to make sure it actually came back. It's one thing to assume it came back, but once multiple engineers/maintenance have to override it, you better make damn sure it actually is a sensor issue. Sure, but so would checking the track because the system said a car was still on it. No matter how many cameras/sensors you add, you can't fix lazy/stupid. Might cameras have prevented the issue?
Hi Alec. I worked for 5 1/2 years in Disneyland Paris. The Paris space mountain is different. One track, 5 trains : 1 in the catapult, 2 inside the dome, 2 in the station (and 1 spare in the maintenance bay with 1 free spot). One launch every 36 seconds and 24 persons in each train, allowing 2400 persons per hour. I can confirm all captors are doubled on the track, and if a 1ms delay occurs between the 2 computers controlling the ride, the attraction automatically switches to a complete stop, activating all brakes.
Spoiler: He literally just explains what a block section is
I went to WDW last summer and I found myself looking behind me rather than looking at the attractions' theme and displays. I love how Disney Imagineering doesn't release technology into the park if it has bugs or possible issues. They perfect it because you only see the technology if it breaks, if it works... it's magic. I would LOVE to be a part of Disney Imagineering, it's my life-long dream.
I was on Big Thunder Mountain when it broke down, it stopped at the lift hill in the dark cave. The lights turned on and come to find out the bat eyes are just black squares with red eyes. There was a walkway next to the ride we used to walk back. As exciting as it is to see the behind the scenes inner-workings of the ride, it's more fun to ride it.
I was a ride engineer at Gröna Lund Amusement park in Stockholm.
At Gröna Lud, at least at their Wild Mouse coaster, the block system worked as follows. There are station blocks where the cars are held at the station, and there is track blocks. The first track block ends at the top of the lift chain. From there each track block in seconds get a few seconds shorter than the previous one. When a car has cleared a block break, the block is occupied and the break is closed until the car clears the next break. If a car catches up to a closed break the car stops and leave automatically when the block is cleared. If a car stays for too long in a block break, I think it was 30 seconds, the automatic emergency break shuts down the ride. On the driver panel there are a key breaker for manually overriding the crash avoidance system. (A key that is off limits to the ordinary ride operators) With that key you can force a car into a falsely occupied block thuds clearing the block behind it.
The chain lift in my opinion is the worst block break. If improperly maintained a sudden stop in the chain may result in the car reversing down the lift hill. (This is true for Gerstlauer and Schwartzkopf design, ) The block breaks are less likely to fail, and a mid track collision is potentially less severe since most of the energy is spent in the track before the crash, while a reversing train on a lift hill will have all energy left.
czcams.com/video/eHIROW_mFEA/video.html
As far as the railroad is concerned this is like “block territory” and ptc combined. Block territory involves signals and blocks of territory that the signals protect and ptc is electronically controlled with the ability to put the train into emergency. Fascinating!
Unless it's over my head, I really enjoy your presentations. This one is excellent. Thank you
I actually learned a lot about roller coasters in this video thank you. Space mountain in disneyland actually has 2 computers monitoring the ride at all times and if they disagree then the computers will halt the ride completely. I know this because this happened while I was on the ride and a ride operator told me as I got off the train.
They held our train on Everest for about 30 seconds longer than usual after the yeti projection scene. My little cousin thought the ride broke down and I heard many voices breaking the suspicious silence, asking among themselves the problem, but I always knew. Thank you 😂
Well in late May, my daughter was stuck at the top of EE. She finally had to walk down all the way. 🥵
I can't get enough of this channel
I'm not a Disney fan at all, but this was another great video, and I really appreciate the professional tone of the narration throughout the channel. Too many presenters rely on childish antics, and not the strength of their topics, to keep the audience interested. Thanks, and keep it up!