You can’t flip out of NPD obviously but when you have two narcissists together it seems to me they take turns to be “prey” (vulnerable) and “predator” (grandiose). In this video I’m talking about classic echo/enabler/fawn people pleasers rather than vulnerable narcissists. However at this point I’m wondering how thin the veil between the two may be. I include myself in this assessment by the way. It’s just a hypothesis , for your consideration.
Thought for you Richard. If we were to say that there is a spectrum where far left is co dependency and far right is NPD, in order for a Co dependent to stop being co dependent they need to develop some narcissistic traits in order to arrive to a balance and move to the middle of the spectrum. This is why when coming out of a narcissistic relationship we start feeling like we are the narcissist because in defense we are developing narcissist traits in order to fight our way out. Both of these traits are needed in a personality in order to have balance.
İ agree with your hypothesis. I've been documenting my behaviour over the last 2 years and also the behaviour of people I've interacted with on a personal level. Whoah! İ was in shock. Lead me to looking at inverted narcissism. But the selfless and other behaviours, it got me highly confused. İ think i must sign up with your coaching school for assistance. So far you and Sam and perhaps Dr Ramani could be the only people who have delved deep enough as psychotherapist online. You spot on.
Along these lines, do you believe that two fawn/enabler "codependent" types who happen to fall into a relationship would also take turns in the predator and prey roles? Or would it seem there always has to be a predator hierarchy (therefore one edges closer to NPD) for the relationship to start in the first place? I completely agree you can have two NPD taking turns in their roles, thus my childhood now makes sense.
My two NPD parents entire relationship was them constantly switching roles from predator to prey, with the occasional “enjoyable” moment (for them) of them both being the predators and me and my siblings being the prey. I have been digging into the subject my entire life, but I think one of the most unexplored subjects in this area is how these roles can be fluid in a relationship between narcissists. As you’ve said on numerous occasions, everyone with NPD is also codependent. In my case, as someone who was raised to be codependent prey for my parents and a perpetual protector of my siblings, the only part of my parents I could empathize with was their codependent tendencies. Their narcissism perplexed me, but the other parts I could relate to. This relating helped me to rationalize their horrible behaviors in many ways. I think this is another crucial component to what keeps the relationship going between those with NPD and those who only know how to be someone else’s scapegoat.
@@Nerdy-By-Nature that one I dont know. If a person is getting predatory can they still be said to be the blameless "prey" codependent? Interesting question
My world changed when I realized the toxicity of my own codependency in my relationships. The best thing one can do as the ‘prey’ is separate oneself completely from the predator. No contact what 👏🏼 so 👏🏼 ever 👏🏼 It is absolutely one of the most painful and uncomfortable experiences. I lived through many dark nights of the soul where it feels like I was dying or going completely bonkers. Sometimes ppl lose themselves during this period because it feels like the insanity will never end. But you must have FAITH that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, because there is. TRUST. The worst thing you can do is jump into another relationship immediately before the worst part is over. You will only attract the same type of toxic relationship because of the energy you emit. Be by yourself, love yourself, value yourself first. It helps to have a strong support group. But if you don’t have one, you must know that it is not impossible to do it alone. Much strength, faith, and patience is required of you. Love will follow ❤️ Good luck 🍀
Lumina I don’t think that’s what Richard is saying at all. A lot of videos from other people say this. Richard is much more balanced and talking about people having a neurosis and how it manifests in behaviour. Not bad and good.
NO MORE! NO MORE excuses! NO MORE justifying evil behaviours! NO MORE taking in the guilt and shame of others and lay it on my shoulders! NO MORE trying to understand were others are coming from before FIRST taking into account MY state of wellbeing! (I wrote this in my journal a while ago and it just poped into my head whilst I was listening to the video, so I thought I should add it here too, publicly.)
Also learned codependency stems from an abandonment wound. Not feeling safe to feel or knowing how to speak our needs and boundaries keeps the cycle going. Especially if we fear how another will respond when we speak up. So important to ask ourselves - how am I feeling? What do I need? And trust it! Journaling among many other modalities is extremely helpful for codependency recovery. The journey to self love isn’t easy at times but yes, so necessary to heal codependency.
Extremely icky in the beginning asking myself questions. My eternal child gave me the silent treatment for a while it was a hostile world for her anything good felt like acid rain. We can shift from a unhealthy perspective to telling a story of hope an growth. Sincerely...
Holy shit. This video was a GAME CHANGER for me. I just texted this to several people: I just had a HUGE revelation about my ex that I think you might agree with, and also might be interested in hearing about just for yourself. I think, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that my ex has a pretty bad case of NPD. HOWEVER, I think I probably exponentially exacerbated her condition because the depth of my own codependency created a larger echo response in her than, for example, it does with her wife. The two conditions are fundamentally attracted to each other (...ok, some hippy dippy shit coming) because the universe is always striving for balance. So, people who are solely focused on others (codependency) SEEK people who are solely focused on themselves. And the magnitude of my own codependency just...resonated and turned up the volume on her own disorder. She's better with her wife because her wife is healthier than I was. I am so glad that I am no longer that person, and I feel MUCH more optimistic about the future now, because I know this about myself. Anyway, Happy Saturday. Just thoughts, use or discard as you will.
I ended my marriage when i realized i was a codependent enabler and my husband's abuse would only get worse. Luckily I ended it before it got physical but it was scary and sad.
Jp Sears (in one of his serious videos, of course!) had reached an identical conclusion. That the narcissist and their prey are two polar dichotomies in reaction to the same event, but each chose a drastically different modality of being. You had said that you are a fan of his comedy, I wonder if you also like his non-satirical chats. Personally I’ve always loved them both. Infinite gratitudes for yet another life saving video, Richard! I wish I could thank you in person for the amount of insight, comfort, and healing you’ve given me.
Thank you for this confirmation Richard! My true healing began when I started seeing things exactly like this. I could suddenly see how we both were victims from childhood trauma but had adopted two different survival tactics (personalities) and how we fitted in each other’s narrative completely so we could play it out time and time again. All this to be able to finally “get it” and break free. The willingness to see one’s part is confronted with what we “loose” if doing so. That’s why it’s so hard and takes time. Who am I really if not a victim? Why would I “choose” this? Being afraid of being alone played a big role. And being afraid of taking full responsibility of my actions, my mistakes, my unconscious beliefs, my weaknesses, my dreams, my needs. Responsibility was key for me. I couldn’t deal with all the “self-love” bs. I had to find another angle. I could see how every victim (myself included) had an immature attitude and rarely reached goals and seemed stuck. I never had to confront neither my mother nor my partner, I just walked away and started to take responsibility for everything I could in MY life. That’s when they lost their power and I gained my. Love, strength and peace to all!! ❤️💪🏽✌🏽
The Narcissist sees love as "In my insecurity knowing that a person won't always feel love for me and show it I have to find a way to control my own supply of love to feel loved. Because I know people won't always love me I will take those moments and use them to pressure that person to feel awful for not loving me in hopes to get pity love. I use manipulative tactics (lovebombing) to manipulate love out of my partner. When I show love it is to manipulate love out of you to feed me." The prey through the manipulation goes from seeing love as "I can be myself and show you true love and mean it in the moment and be sincere" to merely seeing love as "I show love by allowing my partner to be themselves and I just support them." Because the prey gets manipulated they no longer give the kind of love style the narcissist is actually craving. The narcissist is literally taking out the very thing they crave from their prey. Narcs want to be loved but now their prey has been molded to just allow the narc to be themselves. The prey no longer knows how to love sincerely anymore because they have learned to only return love when being loved. The narc gets mad at this or bored and moves on to new supply. The prey is still in love with the narc but feels helpless in showing it. Then when discard comes the prey is set to take the fall for the narc. The narc will use all of that to say the prey didn't love them. And the prey will easily feel that way because they haven't felt they were sincere for awhile now.
@Elizabeth Tucker My relationship was 7 years of marriage to what I believed to be the most amazing woman ever. She showed me love everyday. Told me she loved me. Would surprise me with gifts randomly and just made me feel secure without a doubt that she loved me. But early on after I married her I started seeing subtle behaviors I knew was odd but couldn't place. Come home and she would give me something she made and hug and kiss me and just flatter me and say how much she missed me and loved me that day (which wasn't out of the ordinary at the time because she was that way while dating). But it changed in that I would say I loved her back and hug her just like always but maybe my face showed some kind of overwhelmed look and she would now sometimes step back and begin to imply I didn't appreciate the gift or hug. I would find myself defending from being told I didn't love her or that she wasn't good enough. This made me feel upset because I did love her. She would go from an extreme of loving me to extreme of being hurt by me. This went on for about the first 2 years. Then faded into more of just continuing to give me gifts or do random acts of kindness to show how much she loved me but she stopped going into this extreme end so I thought maybe it was all good now. But the concept changed. She started to randomly bring up how she felt alone more. How she wanted friends. Suddenly I began to find myself being told by her that she didn't feel she could come to me. That she wanted a friend. I would tell her she wasn't alone and that I was her friend but she would reply "well yeah but I mean I want a friend friend. You know like another girl". She would complain about certain women and go on about how she couldn't stand them one day and the next day be making plans to hangout with them. When I would say something about how odd that was I found myself being told I just wanted to control her and that I just always put her down. I couldn't make sense of this and decided to just let her be. I mean she still loved me right? And still told me that on the daily. Last few years changed more. She got a job and she would complain more about the people at work not liking her. Then the next day or week would go on about how everybody at work loved her. On the times when she would go into how she thought no one liked her I would find odd her reasons for such conclusion and would have to question her. She would blow up on me and go into an extreme of shutting off to me and start telling me I just wanted to put her down and I was mean and she didn't know why she even bothered to come to me because all I did was hurt her. I felt horrible but also offended because I was just trying to understand and help and be there for her. Later it became my family who hated her. Same pattern of behavior. And I found it easier to just agree and let it be and I loved her by accepting this. And again I didn't feel distrust in her because she still showed me mostly constant affection although it wasn't as much as before. She also started to smoke a lot of weed now. Which I was not a fan and did voice my concern (met with same of being told I was being controlling) but I let her be because she said it helped her with anxiety and I let her convince me. Move to the last year. She got a new job after finally ending it with her last one in a very bitter state and saying she hated it. All of a sudden she started more and more to seemingly flat out ignore me. She would come home and immediately go into the bedroom and lock the door. She would spend most the night there and only come out to eat. Sometimes she would come out and hang with me for awhile and I would try to find things to do with her but she would say she was tired and go back to the bedroom. She stopped speaking to me more and more. And then finally would come out only to start berating me for not doing enough of the housework (mainly dishes??) and would tell me I barely did anything. Even though I was the one that mowed and took care of trash and yes would do the dishes and now I was even cooking dinner more for the last 3 months because she was just in the bedroom. And then also because I sometimes spanked our children (I know it's kind of controversial and I am always finding better ways to teach discipline and I don't use spanking as much now) she would come out and in front of my children scream at me to stop abusing them. She would pin me up against the wall and tell me I was abusive in front of them. But a couple of random days still she would come in and give me a surprise gift and say she loved me like none of that ever happened. Finally I went in to check on her. Found her face timing another man while in the shower. I fell to the floor in shock. And all she did was look at me and without any kind of emotion just stared at me and said "I think you need to leave". I panicked and of course I went for her phone only to find myself being jumped on and bit then found myself brought to floor in a choke hold. Almost passed out but managed to get free. Tried to get out but she came running up behind me so I put my arm out and she ran into it and hit her throat. We cooled down and she wanted me to leave. I asked what was going on and she said she had only been sexting this guy for about 4 months. I ended up leaving 3 days later but I thought we could make things work. So after 2 weeks she said she wanted to. Fast forward 8 months later. I have since found out that the 4 months of sexting was 2 years plus a 5 hour trip to visit him for 3 days in 2018 when she lied saying she was taking a trip with her girl friend. That there was not 1 but at least 8 affairs. All went on for almost 2 years and intertwined. Including her much older boss and a 2 year affair with my brother in law (now my sister is getting divorced) and that my youngest child who I have raised as mine for 3 years believing was just a accident (I mean we didn't plan to have her) is not mine but apparently my brother in laws or this other random guy because she doesn't know. She manipulated our marriage counselor to accuse me of being an emotional abuser. And I have been arrested twice now for domestic assault because all she had to do was lie and say I shoved her with the last one placing an ex parte order on me and being the final straw for me to say I'm done. I have now found a lot of the smear campaign messages she had throughout the years to friends and family playing a victim of abuse. Found where her and the new supply planned to have me made out to be a abusive person so she could have it easier to divorce me for him. It is a sick game they play. I have found at least 5 of our 7 years were a facade. One of the last things she said to me was "I have looked and am able to separate it out and the multiple affairs I had were not the problem in our marriage. You were the problem. Why can't you see that and get over it." That was when I realized there was something more than this amazing woman I had held onto the impression of. The mask had come off and she wasn't so amazing anymore but instead cruel. And yet I still have moments now where I feel I failed. If only I had been calmer and not gotten so upset. Like it plays with you. Am I in the wrong? I have a therapist. He even came out and said he thinks I have gone through heavy gaslighting. Not easy.
I mean I wasn't perfect in our marriage either. I certainly had my own share of problems. But I loved her. We did get into some arguments because of me. And I did say hurtful things in those moments. But I am mostly sure I apologized later. And I always and still feel awful for saying anything mean. But she really liked to say I spent our entire marriage putting her down. And says "It was every week for years". I remember being lazy if anything just playing video games not taking the time to deliberately be mean to my wife? She says I called her stupid all the time but I feel awful for each time I did and so I know it was only a handful of times. And a few of those times I said "That's stupid" not "You're stupid" which I realize kind of implies the same thing but one time was in reference to her saying she was going to hangout with the neighbor lady right after going on about how she hated her and how she was a cheating wife that did cocaine.
I am happy to be another person to validate your feelings and trauma. We are twins in this. They all may be different in ways, but their patterns are usually so similar huh, and in the end, it’s all just as damaging. I am sending you all the love I can and hope that even as a stranger on CZcams, sane and all, that this is one step further to your calming anxieties and justified fears and struggles. You are strong and can be more than “survival mode” one day, you can be even more resilient than you already are. And hopefully we will all finally learn to stop shaming ourselves for surviving theses psycho and sociopaths ❤️💕🤞🏼
I've known I was co-dependent since I did some self-help stuff in the 90s but NOBODY has ever made me understand the way you have. I don't know what it is about your communication style, but if you'd been around back then I may have made better progress. Hat tip to John Bradshaw, though. I think he was good for the times.
The other day I had a HUGE AH HA moment that is most likely 99% YOUR fault. 😉 I was telling my sister what a jerk my h was being that day and how I had told him to knock it off. She asked- Well what happened? Did he have a bad day at work? I replied- WTH difference does THAT make? He doesnt get to be a jerk to me regardless of the day he had!! 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀 My sister said- Im sorry. Did I dial the wrong #? I thought I was talking to my "makes excuses for everyone's behavior" sister! I said - Well I guess THAT sister is gone cuz this one cant be bothered with excuses anymore! The TRUELY AWESOME part was that I MEANT EVERY WORD. I have taken responsibility for how I allow ppl to speak to & treat me. And I no longer feel bad for not taking whatever crap ppl feel like handing me. THANK YOU for the big part you played in that!!
It seems the “prey” in the diad has an undervalued sense of self, leading to poor boundaries and tendency to absorb criticism of others, (also making them susceptible to the love bombing) while the “predator” has an exaggerated sense of self, leading to equally poor boundaries. Once the “honeymoon phase” is over, love bombing turns to aggressive criticism by the predator and passive acceptance of that criticism by the prey.
In my case it also maybe leads to the thought "Ah, finally i'm back, where i think i belong. All this praising and be shown love felt weird, because deep down i know i'm a piece of dirt." Thanks mom for making me feel like a piece of shit at my core, with which I now poison every relationship i engage in. I'm still advocating a parenting license. Or at least legalize those shrooms. Some imprints from early childhood are too deep to just change with some affirmations and exercises. I need to get my brain into a state of neuroplasticity like that of a child again - and then do these affirmations and exercises. Maybe then they will stick.
My ex used to call me a masochist all the time. I feel that should have been a big clue about that whole relationship, lol. And that he knew exactly what he was doing.
VERY POWERFUL, concise and very very clear. I completely agree with what you're saying because have been through it all of my life and finally pushed by someone to the point of complete self discovery and what it is I"m doing. What you've said about being abused by predator and by self ouch...soo True. Self awareness, facing your part and stepping away from it; very liberating!! Thanks so much for your work, it's tremendously changing healing process for me!
I call the narc, the grain of sand that irritated me enough to become a pearl! I’m not a flawless pearl but I’ve learned to love myself and like myself regardless of others opinions... Top 2 rules: #1 No crazy Allowed #2 I decide what’s crazy!
As far as codependency goes trying to fix and appease, “ I didn’t break it so I can’t fix it” I can only fix what’s in myself, I am responsible for me only
I feel I’ve learned so much this past year, the information and my brain feel like a cartoon dog, legs trying to catch up to its body. All a bit arse first, but has the potential to come together. I’m going to take some time to process. Things are becoming clearer. Thank you Richard.
It was only when I had children that I went no contact with my abusive family and started to set firm boundaries with others. You relive your own childhood when you have kids - for good or bad - and somehow motherhood enabled me to finally stand up for myself. Perhaps I didn’t want my children to witness me as a victim, nor did I want them to become victims, themselves, by modeling my unhealthy behaviors. The milestone of parenthood seems to have been the catalyst that finally woke me up to difficult truths and necessary changes. Parenthood is a cataclysmic experience for everyone, even those who had great childhoods. For me, it assisted in working through some lifelong destructive patterns of victimhood. I feel like I’m currently in a stage of isolation, and not only because of the Plandemic. I feel burned after a lifetime of abuse (regardless of whether or not I enabled it) and don’t want to be with people. I genuinely prefer the company of animals. This suggests that I may not have found the healthy adult balance you speak of, but for now that’s okay.
What you do is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself, and really caring for us on the other end. Your work is meaningful, impactful, transformative. You transcended your childhood story and became a hero. I admire your strength and willingness to show up and give, give, give to us. It’s received with upmost gratitude.
Thank you for doing white board. Easier to show my friend & try to get him out of denial (decades of Narcissist abuse). Haven't been able to get my friend to watch any videos :( Appreciate your time & dedication to educate us all. Thank you for sharing your personal story - it's more relatable & there isn't much material for men victims.
Thank you, Richard. I was such a fawn. Got beat up by the narc for 35 years, culminating in abandonment. If not for my counselor, you, and Pete Walker, I would still be lost in an emotional spiral. It's been a long journey. According to Pete Walker, an abandonment wound is the worst because you don't really have a memory of any concrete trauma to point the finger at. So I should be grateful to the narc for abandoning me. Otherwise I would never have known.
Yep watching Richard and Sam Vaknin always make me feel sick because they are revealing the truth of my hellish relationship with the ex narc and family etc 😰 At least I know now but difficult to hear....
@@pernilladomander7648 not, but did Vaknin just replaced an other narc in his life? The new narc, where Richard has a more pleasant role in the "theater" of that narc?
Well said! I’m sorry that ANY of us are needing to take this medicine, but since we have been operating out of that sickness anyway, I am on my knees grateful that this guy pours his life energy into helping us in a way that only someone from the inside can. I often have an avoidance reaction when his videos come up, but I know that even if it hurts, it will be good for me. Three cheers for the man we CAN HEAR!
I have been listening to you for very long time. I owe you a pint. Thank you for helping me understand me Cheers mate I had to come back and listen one more time. Brilliant Richard!
This is a much more elaborated version that is taught in domestic violence counseling (especially women who are beaten for just glancing at someone of the opposite sex ... "Sleeping with the Enemy" movie portrays this dynamic). Beaten women have to be talked out of "the glance" being their fault (and yet they know it is not their fault, but again, they feel they have to please the narcissist). I am going to suggest this video on my own blog as I think this is a better way to teach it in domestic violence counseling rather than going over and over the brainwashing ("No, you don't deserve to be hit! Hitting is not a reasonable response to glancing at anything!"). This breaks it down and I think would have a greater impact at educating women in terms of "toxic attachment" to a narcissist. Great video.
This was incredibly helpful! Your videos have been one of the best tools for understanding myself and the abuse I’ve experienced. Thank you for what you do❤️
So true! The closer I get to my "moving on" date its like in a nightmare running from something chasing you in panic for your life then realizing you've been stuck running in slow motion! And their gaining on you! Recovering codependent/scapegoat... Years of work on my way to balance, after final ending detachment of old life. Thank you! 💛
WOW, totally explains every single relationship in my life. The last break up brought me to my knees. But, thanks to you and all the vids..really helped me see my role, my accountability in all of it, and I am recovering 9-1/2 months now...feeling a bit healthier..still have a long way to go..
I am so happy that you talked about the REFUSAL to say no and that it's neurotic and not conscious. Made me sigh in relief and grief at the same time. That is exactly what it is. I have tried to work on this for several years but it's so DIFFICULT
I agree. It seems to me to be a very fine line, like a ridge where both edges meet and bond together to create a new form. It takes persistence and consistent care and consciousness to determine a safe foothold so not to slide down the slippery slopes on either side - preditory or prey. Understanding and acting from the standpoint of my moral concept of good versus evil seems to be the access point for what determines my safe and secure foothold. Thanks for your insight and teachings, Richard. I appreciate the support you offer.
Dear Richard - I think I had problems understanding this state of being because of the vocabulary. I have spent many hard years doing everything by myself, without asking or accepting any kind of help, support, recompansation, gifts, even kindnes - because I was doing my best to be independent. ( no dependent or needy ) I have been hearing this word for decades as a shameful description of a female. That’s how I understood it. - However, according to your presentation here, I am prone to believe I spent most of my life trying to prove my independence by being a life support : for a husband, brother, parent, friends, pets, bosses, you name it ! I see how my initial problem was my yearning desire to prove myself worthy . My underlying issues revolve around being disconnected from my self & wanting so badly to be seen in a good light. Let’s say, starving for approval .. which I never got .I have come to realize that, the approval I seek isn’t “ out there somewhere “ but rather inside my self. I was trying to find permission to approve myself ! Since I wasn’t getting self approval - I went outside to seek it in others. Unfortunately , this is an endeavor that’s destined to fail - because .. if I’m sending out vibes that I hate myself , I will not connect with people who appreciate & enjoy me. I spent my life looking for people to protect & rescue ; and it finally dawned on me to stop because I’ve run out of energy & funds. I also see how my plan is rubbish. So I took myself out to sit on the sidelines. & do myself a favor - stop trying to get people to like me, stop looking for people to help. I thought I was clean & clear. But when I got fired from my job mid March because of c19 it became clear to me that I was addicted to working as a way to justify my right to live. I truly feel worthless without a job ! Wow ! What an amazing discovery ! I spent the next weeks & months trying to see if I can develop appreciation for just being alive. ~ after 90 + days, I’m doing pretty good.. So good, that I went right back to my old habits this past Friday. I took responsibility for someone else’s situation & gave them $20. Then I got into a long chat with a charismatic street vendor. I was on a roll . ~ The next day , I crashed & felt like shit. I took it as a warning sign to slow down . I was planning to go out & meet my ‘new friend ‘ but I thought it over, & decided to stay home. I did an assignment instead. I’m used to taking charge & being responsible for others .✅ Thanks for all the updates, Richard. I consider you a friend. Many thanks for helping with these issues. And as always, best wishes 💫
I have watched your channel over several years. This video is particularly helpful. I also recall a video several years back that was especially useful. I have desperately tried to break out of the scapegoat/black sheep/ codependent/ potential borderline roles/ fleas. The work is so exhausting. What is the most difficult thing is the intense grief that comes alongside the process of getting better. Its easy to trick yourself into believing something must be terribly wrong when you actually purge all of these roles. I'm a firm believer the closer we can be rooted in reality the more sane we become. That is difficult when yours has been profoundly distorted for so long and it's not just a relationship thing it is societal one. I am wishing you strength and self preservation.
I really enjoyed listening to your videos because they don’t drag on their full of information and you obviously have a very strong understanding of what victims of this go through. Your voice is very comforting.
Brilliant again, Richard. You said it all. Interestingly enough, the comment that I put down to a video I had of yours, this morning, specifically spoke about this mirroring effect that occurs between the narcissist and it’s supply. You are giving me so much clarity in this subject and I am pleased that it shows that I am ready to hear it all. My sister refuses to listen to anything I say although her relationship screams of narcissistic abuse. She says that she loves him too much. I did ask one question, “Is it love or are you addicted to that way of being treated ?” She gets this treatment from her partner as well as from our mom, who is a Narc. I would go so far as to say that my sister is and has always been the scapegoat but refuses to see it. As for me, as soon as I said NO to both my husband and my mom, life has been way much sweeter than before. They both looked at me as if I was some creature from another planet 😂😂😂😂
OMG!! I have to transcribe this, read it over and over and over again, then eat it and digest it!! RG, you are so articulate and correct. It’s been a long time since I’ve heard explanations that have crystalized the functionality of this dyad. I would go one step further though, and say that there is manipulation on both sides. Co-dependents ARE manipulative. They had have to be, in order to perpetuate the relationship. It is safe, it is familiar and it is all we know. Thank you for this!🌺
I agree... totalling ironic mirroring dynamic. I find the whole thing... paradoxes... really all just way too interesting! Perfect paradigm for inspiring artistic expression! Which is a good thing. Considering not much else good ever seems to come out of such horrible & evil experiences! 🖤 ❤ 👿 🙈 🖤❤
Your ability to generate sass is multiplied generously when you are generating from a place where you admittedly still occupy at times....(codependency). Which I appreciate so very much because i am there too. I'm currently identifying and managing my own grotesque narcissistic behaviors from the position of a non narcissistic personality disordered codependent and when you made the comment about going to the tigers den and sticking your face in its mouth and then crying "it got me again!" I laughed. Like a real belly laugh. The first one I've experienced in quite some time. You are so very right, my friend.
Explained so well... my psychosis of people pleaser started turning around when I realized “I was not that great” When I begin being honest with myself and was willing to acknowledge that I had the agenda of being liked, that it was the reason “I was so good”
You are so right. I was "discarded" by a codependent where he chose to please the narc who victimised herself and put me in the blame. I lost a group of friends overnight and it's devastating. Tried to mend the friendship with the codependent but he rejected by saying it's for the good sake of everyone because everyone feel bad meeting me. 😅 Thanks for sharing! Working on healing everyday~ ☺️
So much truth in this video..I used to be blinded by this truth, but God revealed and removed the blinders from my eyes..thank you Lord Jesus so I can stop the cycle for my daughter
Very validating. My sister tore up the city we grew up in and was a whirlwind of chaos. I did that for awhile and then switched over to the church scene for awhile getting saved about 20 times and tried to be so 'good'. The leg lengthening prayer tents were alluring, but I knew there was more to it than just having a demon like my mom thought was the problem. 😁 Two extremes. It finally makes sense now. We are both finding our tree of life in the middle . Not too good or not too bad. My sweet mother even told me last night that if we wouldn't have skipped bible camp to go smoke stolen cigarettes in the woods behind the church, our lives would have turned out better. 🚬😍 I get it but took a long time. I can love my parents from a different angle now. Feels so much better!!.
Awareness slammed me last year😕🧐 it’s been a journey, progress is slow but certain...during one of my “shifts” in perspectives , the NP became ill with a number of conditions, congestive heart failure the biggest issue, and has been under hospice care ever since.. thank you for this video, it’ showed me I’ve made a lot of progress with in myself...
Thank you so much Richard for this I so so needed this after finding out all the stuff on my narc recently and boy am I about to sort this shit now! Thanks for all the videos it’s taken me a few years to build this courage but with all I know now I’m ready 💪 to reclaim ME ! X
This is your best video I've seen so far... (I've only seen like 3 so far but I've watched tons of videos on narcissism and codependent personify traits, family and romantic relationships, and this one is really really good) so much hard ball truths in such a short time and it didnt feel generalized or vague like some videos that try to explain narcissism by text book definitions or adding rationalizations to why these people act the way they do. I like that you didnt bother answering why so much as just stating the behaviors the victim/martyr role that I hate watching play out and so glad i broke away from (healing still in progress). The Diad is so true and it's far more important to me to try and reach victims and help victims become more self aware of their vulnerabilities because confronting the narcissist is useless and hazardous but codependent victims have more chance of change through self reflection and they deserve every chance possible to make that change.
Wow! "Universe is always by my side!" Indeed! 😇 Thank you Richard, this topic I started to expand and sharing in the morning, and now at the end of the day I have very good explanation example. 🙏
You have mentioned in other videos about how childhood trauma messes with the brains hard drive. The default setting from childhood gets taken into adulthood like dragging a big lump of leaking leathery luggage. Choosing partners...as you say not simply "falling prey" who are remote or abusive because it's what you know. The push and pull, the fight, the roller coaster the need to repair the broken parent keeps sending you back into similar adult relationships. "You will love me!!!" And "I can heal you!!!" Obviously you can't. You just end up in pieces and the process of putting yourself back together is not only exhausting but harmful to your sense of self...if no lessons are learnt. You often become a bit of a monster yourself by being in the ring with them. I have sometimes felt like The Terminator. I have sometimes felt like R2D2 Sometimes like a clockwork tin toy. Not myself. Not thriving. Focusing on Who I Can Be. Pumped full of my virus and theirs. Perfect for toxic and disordered individuals as neurotically squirting emotional juice keeps them fed and you wilted. Self loathing, self sabotage...often lurking in the luggage behind the socks and clean undies. As you say...sealing the holes in your fortress, saying "no" stepping away to rewire the system...removes you from this demented dance with abusers, losers, users and...er schmoozers? 🤔😆 Anyway...good stuff!
By the end of the relation I was thinking to my self that both of us were in a team against my self. I came to this understanding when I started to look at some situations I 've been through. Submiting is the way I learned to survive in a very dangerous situation as child and a teenager.
I have to say that this was magnificently explained. Thank you! This helped me understand my loop I've been in. The war with the Logic side vs emotional . I understood but needed this to make it crystal clear.
I just stumbled across this video, and had to chuckle. This is so dead on! Beautiful 🤩 I right in the middle (well, closer to the end) of the realization of my part in that relationship. Sheesh!
This echoes a very recent breakthrough of mine, it's not like no-ones heard it but somehow the words properly reached me this week. Very very much relevant I think to both narcassists and 'co dependants' and a lot of both will do both to varying degrees... 'nobody owes you anything' and 'you do not owe anybody anything'. I knew I was a people pleaser a while back bit considered myself an ex people pleaser, I'd improved a little but hadn't realised how insidious it was. I was so accustomed to people pleasing that I'd felt at times, on a surface level anyway, like I wanted to do things that I actually didn't want to, I'd convinced myself I did!! Often things that weren't even asked for, I'd just 'want' to do x, when I tune in with my body and how I truly feel I find that no, I did not want to do x at all actually. It feels so liberating to have or at least be in the process of casting away another layer of this and learning that my own feelings, choices and boundaries are entirely valid and learning how to confidentially assert myself to be able to commu image them. Phew...
This! This is why these relationships are so intense and so completely destructive. I lived it many times and I'm now out. Still codependency is a major influence on my life as I learn to heal
I kept seeing an image of an unhealthy partner, even after they were long gone. Gaping wounds on them. I instantly felt guilt, that I didn't save them. Then I finally clicked, those wounds were mine. I just needed that mirror to finally see my own damage. Rage is what I felt. Not at that person, at the fact that I didn't think I was worth being seen. It took the re-enactment of my toxic childhood to realise, I never mattered. I am still healing. But I am repelled by that same dynamic now, makes my skin crawl. The lesson repeats until it is learnt.
Are there some questions a cpd can ask oneself when showing up , to determine if their actions are satiating others or also serve themselves in order to break the pattern? I want balanced relationships, that meet my personality needs .. i/e ntp
This is brilliant! Boundaries and loving the Self... oooo it’s hard but recovery to be an Adult and take accountability and change your subconscious programming .... got keep going... secure attachment is the goal ... in the middle ❤️
I’m super excited about this new series. The two recordings I’ve heard the last two days have been awesome. Richard, you have no idea how much I am helped by your videos ( for well over a year now). Thank you so much for doing this.
OMG great video. A little more relatable than I wish were true, but you are right with what you say. Codependent here, only recently woken up to myself and it's rough and super confronting but from here I grow, right? Thanks for explaining so well.
With regards to narcissism! The worst case scenario is being born to a parent or parents that are narcissistic and then growing up in that environment. I am 3 years next month discovering that I am codependent. I have not looked into my mothers eyes 5 years this January 😊. Good little clip Richard 👊
I think this Is exactly what attracts each other, Deep Down, aside from the chance for manipulation and the desired outcome...we see their wounds and they sense our vulnerability , sharing the same feelings of shame and not being enough, both blocked and froze that traumatized child
You invited questions,sir. Do you believe in ruined humans? I had a horrendous childhood and stayed stuck in the patterns that are a natural result of the multi flavored forms of abuse until now, as I am getting educated and forming agency. There was a “ me” that existed deep inside before any “they” happened to me. I have strengths and blessings and gifts, but man, most of the time it just feels like too much went wrong for too long, and the best that I can hope for is some improvement, but I do feel like a ruined human. Can everyone learn to find the healthy self within, or are most of us doomed to spin in our infinity with only glimpses of the person who might have been?
Richard, This is brilliant about scapegoated prey and martyrdom identification. I just had a serious “aha” moment while watching this video. Thanks for all the great work you do. I’ve learned so much from you over the years. All the best.
Would it possibly make more sense to say that the co-dependent (prey) is consciously blind-sighted and doesn’t realize they have a choice versus emphasizing their unconscious refusal/unwillingness? I do understand, however, that when healing occurs that the denial fades and willingness to step out of the co-dependent role occurs. Thank you.
I honestly wonder sometimes IF my refusal to set a boundary actually was UNconscious. I KNEW I was being taken advantage of. I KNEW that the things that were said to me were just plain mean. I KNEW I was capable of defending myself because I grew up as the "protector" in my family...... What I also knew was that there was a price to pay for going against them. They would be angry. They would stop talking to me. ( my mom favorite punishment for me as a kid) They would tell me how disappointed they were in me. Basically I KNEW I COULD SAY NO AND CHOSE NOT TO!! I can look back now and CLEARLY SEE that I allowed shitty ppl in my life, who would treat me as nadly as I thought I deserved and THEN bent over backwards to prove I was worthy of THEM! 👀😒😮😯👀 It was life changing for me the 1st time I heard Richard say I played a big part in my dysfunctional marriage by ALLOWING his lies & abuse to continue. Needless to say I DONT DO THAT anymore. My marriage dynamic has totally changed since I quit looking at myself as a victim. It was very empowering.
D. Williams I agree, we’re lucky when people let us know we have a choice..... especially with situations like these where it’s so easy to get stuck. I’m very grateful for Richard as well.. He makes the healing process So much more accessible than most people..
Think it’s a defense mechanism like fight, flight or freeze but there is a 4 th and that is fawn you feel powerless thus ...However it’s a learned powerlessness either from family or the narc or both. Think the clue is to take back that power.
I work with people mired in and moving out of codependency. Firstly I wish to tell you that you are brave. Secondly, that you are honest. Thirdly, you clearly have empathy, a desire to help and to pass on wisdom. Well that's a few things under thirdly.... I also like that you don't ask people to do what you haven't done. Yet. You're much further out of the cycle of codependency than you realise. You are well. You are healed. Believe me. Lorcan (psychotherapist, former co dependent, and former mirror to a very nasty narcopath).
You are so giving but there are many of us out here receiving while praying for you daily. May God bless you and continue to work in and through you to help people to know the truth. We shall know the truth and the truth will set us free! Thank you Richard. Keep up the amazing work and your incredible curiosity and objective philosophical approach to psychological issues.
Thank you for this video. My husband is the scapegoat in his family, with his narcissistic mother. What you say makes so much sense and I’ll forward it to him. Thank you again.
You are a badass man. That part about "refusing to defend themselves", give it back, etc. really hit home. It is such a Catch-22 scenario. You sit there and don't defend yourself and it is like they resent you for it and look at you like you are weak, etc. If you DO defend yourself, prepare for WWIII. Either way you are screwed. Man, it is amazing when the dots connect and I can see myself in a scenario or situation that happened. I never thought I'd ever be here. Sometimes it is like I was watching someone else going thru that abuse.
You can’t flip out of NPD obviously but when you have two narcissists together it seems to me they take turns to be “prey” (vulnerable) and “predator” (grandiose).
In this video I’m talking about classic echo/enabler/fawn people pleasers rather than vulnerable narcissists.
However at this point I’m wondering how thin the veil between the two may be.
I include myself in this assessment by the way.
It’s just a hypothesis , for your consideration.
Thought for you Richard. If we were to say that there is a spectrum where far left is co dependency and far right is NPD, in order for a Co dependent to stop being co dependent they need to develop some narcissistic traits in order to arrive to a balance and move to the middle of the spectrum. This is why when coming out of a narcissistic relationship we start feeling like we are the narcissist because in defense we are developing narcissist traits in order to fight our way out. Both of these traits are needed in a personality in order to have balance.
İ agree with your hypothesis. I've been documenting my behaviour over the last 2 years and also the behaviour of people I've interacted with on a personal level. Whoah! İ was in shock. Lead me to looking at inverted narcissism. But the selfless and other behaviours, it got me highly confused. İ think i must sign up with your coaching school for assistance. So far you and Sam and perhaps Dr Ramani could be the only people who have delved deep enough as psychotherapist online. You spot on.
Along these lines, do you believe that two fawn/enabler "codependent" types who happen to fall into a relationship would also take turns in the predator and prey roles? Or would it seem there always has to be a predator hierarchy (therefore one edges closer to NPD) for the relationship to start in the first place? I completely agree you can have two NPD taking turns in their roles, thus my childhood now makes sense.
My two NPD parents entire relationship was them constantly switching roles from predator to prey, with the occasional “enjoyable” moment (for them) of them both being the predators and me and my siblings being the prey. I have been digging into the subject my entire life, but I think one of the most unexplored subjects in this area is how these roles can be fluid in a relationship between narcissists. As you’ve said on numerous occasions, everyone with NPD is also codependent. In my case, as someone who was raised to be codependent prey for my parents and a perpetual protector of my siblings, the only part of my parents I could empathize with was their codependent tendencies. Their narcissism perplexed me, but the other parts I could relate to. This relating helped me to rationalize their horrible behaviors in many ways. I think this is another crucial component to what keeps the relationship going between those with NPD and those who only know how to be someone else’s scapegoat.
@@Nerdy-By-Nature that one I dont know. If a person is getting predatory can they still be said to be the blameless "prey" codependent? Interesting question
My world changed when I realized the toxicity of my own codependency in my relationships. The best thing one can do as the ‘prey’ is separate oneself completely from the predator. No contact what 👏🏼 so 👏🏼 ever 👏🏼 It is absolutely one of the most painful and uncomfortable experiences. I lived through many dark nights of the soul where it feels like I was dying or going completely bonkers. Sometimes ppl lose themselves during this period because it feels like the insanity will never end. But you must have FAITH that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, because there is. TRUST. The worst thing you can do is jump into another relationship immediately before the worst part is over. You will only attract the same type of toxic relationship because of the energy you emit. Be by yourself, love yourself, value yourself first. It helps to have a strong support group. But if you don’t have one, you must know that it is not impossible to do it alone. Much strength, faith, and patience is required of you. Love will follow ❤️ Good luck 🍀
What if it's your parent. Relationships do not end peacefully particularly in cultures of the third world.
Thank you for this. I’m so afraid of this, exactly what you explained. Makes me stay, that’s how I fear it, the period of time ahead with pain. 💕
Precisely.
Very well said
Thank you
Well said. 🙏
You can watch personal mastery quest. It helped me a lot
Err is anybody else thinking maybe they have never had a healthy relationship!? Damn it :)
yes. only lately though have I realised it. 24 years of bad relationship. waste of my time but not too late to change it
I have to put my hand up to that one and I’m 40 🤷🏻♀️
Yep I'm in your boat too Peri Peri, it's kinda sad but not anymore now im aware of myself, I hope!
Lumina I don’t think that’s what Richard is saying at all. A lot of videos from other people say this. Richard is much more balanced and talking about people having a neurosis and how it manifests in behaviour. Not bad and good.
@@annemarietacey9729 wow, you're hopeful
NO MORE!
NO MORE excuses!
NO MORE justifying evil behaviours!
NO MORE taking in the guilt and shame of others and lay it on my shoulders!
NO MORE trying to understand were others are coming from before FIRST taking into account MY state of wellbeing!
(I wrote this in my journal a while ago and it just poped into my head whilst I was listening to the video, so I thought I should add it here too, publicly.)
You are really celebrating your personal Independence Day! 😊
I’m going to add to your list: No More being who they set me up to be
I needed your comment. I relate.
“What were you for Halloween, Jimmy?”
“A tampon of sin.”
ROFLMFAO!!!!!! 💖😂🙏😇😻😈
😂
Lol
Wow !!! You are so funny 😂 😂😂
😃
Also learned codependency stems from an abandonment wound. Not feeling safe to feel or knowing how to speak our needs and boundaries keeps the cycle going. Especially if we fear how another will respond when we speak up. So important to ask ourselves - how am I feeling? What do I need? And trust it! Journaling among many other modalities is extremely helpful for codependency recovery. The journey to self love isn’t easy at times but yes, so necessary to heal codependency.
Extremely icky in the beginning asking myself questions.
My eternal child gave me the silent treatment for a while it was a hostile world for her anything good felt like acid rain.
We can shift from a unhealthy perspective to telling a story of hope an growth.
Sincerely...
And healthy people too, always felt uncomfortable to me, it’s a journey.
Very true. Compliance through fear. Debilitating. 🙏
Holy shit. This video was a GAME CHANGER for me. I just texted this to several people:
I just had a HUGE revelation about my ex that I think you might agree with, and also might be interested in hearing about just for yourself.
I think, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that my ex has a pretty bad case of NPD. HOWEVER, I think I probably exponentially exacerbated her condition because the depth of my own codependency created a larger echo response in her than, for example, it does with her wife. The two conditions are fundamentally attracted to each other (...ok, some hippy dippy shit coming) because the universe is always striving for balance. So, people who are solely focused on others (codependency) SEEK people who are solely focused on themselves. And the magnitude of my own codependency just...resonated and turned up the volume on her own disorder. She's better with her wife because her wife is healthier than I was.
I am so glad that I am no longer that person, and I feel MUCH more optimistic about the future now, because I know this about myself.
Anyway, Happy Saturday. Just thoughts, use or discard as you will.
I ended my marriage when i realized i was a codependent enabler and my husband's abuse would only get worse. Luckily I ended it before it got physical but it was scary and sad.
Jp Sears (in one of his serious videos, of course!) had reached an identical conclusion. That the narcissist and their prey are two polar dichotomies in reaction to the same event, but each chose a drastically different modality of being.
You had said that you are a fan of his comedy, I wonder if you also like his non-satirical chats. Personally I’ve always loved them both.
Infinite gratitudes for yet another life saving video, Richard! I wish I could thank you in person for the amount of insight, comfort, and healing you’ve given me.
I only ever saw one, might have been that one, talking about "overcoming your patheticness"
Maybe the response was forced on us as a response to the parents need being met.
Person: They're abusing me! Richard: Who's letting them?? Me: LOL Me: Oh shit I'm "person"
😂 so true tho
insert scene from devil wears prada here "oh you think this has nothing to do w you..."
@@doubtyea I always think of how she throws the phone in the water! 😻 love that symbol of freedom! 🤸♀️
@@AngelKrystalStar the fakest part of that movie is that miranda respects her at the end lol lets all throw our phones in the water
Soo ME🤦
Thank you for this confirmation Richard! My true healing began when I started seeing things exactly like this. I could suddenly see how we both were victims from childhood trauma but had adopted two different survival tactics (personalities) and how we fitted in each other’s narrative completely so we could play it out time and time again. All this to be able to finally “get it” and break free. The willingness to see one’s part is confronted with what we “loose” if doing so. That’s why it’s so hard and takes time. Who am I really if not a victim? Why would I “choose” this? Being afraid of being alone played a big role. And being afraid of taking full responsibility of my actions, my mistakes, my unconscious beliefs, my weaknesses, my dreams, my needs. Responsibility was key for me. I couldn’t deal with all the “self-love” bs. I had to find another angle. I could see how every victim (myself included) had an immature attitude and rarely reached goals and seemed stuck. I never had to confront neither my mother nor my partner, I just walked away and started to take responsibility for everything I could in MY life. That’s when they lost their power and I gained my. Love, strength and peace to all!! ❤️💪🏽✌🏽
The Narcissist sees love as "In my insecurity knowing that a person won't always feel love for me and show it I have to find a way to control my own supply of love to feel loved. Because I know people won't always love me I will take those moments and use them to pressure that person to feel awful for not loving me in hopes to get pity love. I use manipulative tactics (lovebombing) to manipulate love out of my partner. When I show love it is to manipulate love out of you to feed me."
The prey through the manipulation goes from seeing love as "I can be myself and show you true love and mean it in the moment and be sincere" to merely seeing love as "I show love by allowing my partner to be themselves and I just support them." Because the prey gets manipulated they no longer give the kind of love style the narcissist is actually craving. The narcissist is literally taking out the very thing they crave from their prey. Narcs want to be loved but now their prey has been molded to just allow the narc to be themselves. The prey no longer knows how to love sincerely anymore because they have learned to only return love when being loved. The narc gets mad at this or bored and moves on to new supply. The prey is still in love with the narc but feels helpless in showing it. Then when discard comes the prey is set to take the fall for the narc. The narc will use all of that to say the prey didn't love them. And the prey will easily feel that way because they haven't felt they were sincere for awhile now.
@Elizabeth Tucker My relationship was 7 years of marriage to what I believed to be the most amazing woman ever. She showed me love everyday. Told me she loved me. Would surprise me with gifts randomly and just made me feel secure without a doubt that she loved me. But early on after I married her I started seeing subtle behaviors I knew was odd but couldn't place. Come home and she would give me something she made and hug and kiss me and just flatter me and say how much she missed me and loved me that day (which wasn't out of the ordinary at the time because she was that way while dating). But it changed in that I would say I loved her back and hug her just like always but maybe my face showed some kind of overwhelmed look and she would now sometimes step back and begin to imply I didn't appreciate the gift or hug. I would find myself defending from being told I didn't love her or that she wasn't good enough. This made me feel upset because I did love her. She would go from an extreme of loving me to extreme of being hurt by me. This went on for about the first 2 years. Then faded into more of just continuing to give me gifts or do random acts of kindness to show how much she loved me but she stopped going into this extreme end so I thought maybe it was all good now. But the concept changed. She started to randomly bring up how she felt alone more. How she wanted friends. Suddenly I began to find myself being told by her that she didn't feel she could come to me. That she wanted a friend. I would tell her she wasn't alone and that I was her friend but she would reply "well yeah but I mean I want a friend friend. You know like another girl". She would complain about certain women and go on about how she couldn't stand them one day and the next day be making plans to hangout with them. When I would say something about how odd that was I found myself being told I just wanted to control her and that I just always put her down. I couldn't make sense of this and decided to just let her be. I mean she still loved me right? And still told me that on the daily. Last few years changed more. She got a job and she would complain more about the people at work not liking her. Then the next day or week would go on about how everybody at work loved her. On the times when she would go into how she thought no one liked her I would find odd her reasons for such conclusion and would have to question her. She would blow up on me and go into an extreme of shutting off to me and start telling me I just wanted to put her down and I was mean and she didn't know why she even bothered to come to me because all I did was hurt her. I felt horrible but also offended because I was just trying to understand and help and be there for her. Later it became my family who hated her. Same pattern of behavior. And I found it easier to just agree and let it be and I loved her by accepting this. And again I didn't feel distrust in her because she still showed me mostly constant affection although it wasn't as much as before. She also started to smoke a lot of weed now. Which I was not a fan and did voice my concern (met with same of being told I was being controlling) but I let her be because she said it helped her with anxiety and I let her convince me. Move to the last year. She got a new job after finally ending it with her last one in a very bitter state and saying she hated it. All of a sudden she started more and more to seemingly flat out ignore me. She would come home and immediately go into the bedroom and lock the door. She would spend most the night there and only come out to eat. Sometimes she would come out and hang with me for awhile and I would try to find things to do with her but she would say she was tired and go back to the bedroom. She stopped speaking to me more and more. And then finally would come out only to start berating me for not doing enough of the housework (mainly dishes??) and would tell me I barely did anything. Even though I was the one that mowed and took care of trash and yes would do the dishes and now I was even cooking dinner more for the last 3 months because she was just in the bedroom. And then also because I sometimes spanked our children (I know it's kind of controversial and I am always finding better ways to teach discipline and I don't use spanking as much now) she would come out and in front of my children scream at me to stop abusing them. She would pin me up against the wall and tell me I was abusive in front of them. But a couple of random days still she would come in and give me a surprise gift and say she loved me like none of that ever happened. Finally I went in to check on her. Found her face timing another man while in the shower. I fell to the floor in shock. And all she did was look at me and without any kind of emotion just stared at me and said "I think you need to leave". I panicked and of course I went for her phone only to find myself being jumped on and bit then found myself brought to floor in a choke hold. Almost passed out but managed to get free. Tried to get out but she came running up behind me so I put my arm out and she ran into it and hit her throat. We cooled down and she wanted me to leave. I asked what was going on and she said she had only been sexting this guy for about 4 months. I ended up leaving 3 days later but I thought we could make things work. So after 2 weeks she said she wanted to. Fast forward 8 months later. I have since found out that the 4 months of sexting was 2 years plus a 5 hour trip to visit him for 3 days in 2018 when she lied saying she was taking a trip with her girl friend. That there was not 1 but at least 8 affairs. All went on for almost 2 years and intertwined. Including her much older boss and a 2 year affair with my brother in law (now my sister is getting divorced) and that my youngest child who I have raised as mine for 3 years believing was just a accident (I mean we didn't plan to have her) is not mine but apparently my brother in laws or this other random guy because she doesn't know. She manipulated our marriage counselor to accuse me of being an emotional abuser. And I have been arrested twice now for domestic assault because all she had to do was lie and say I shoved her with the last one placing an ex parte order on me and being the final straw for me to say I'm done. I have now found a lot of the smear campaign messages she had throughout the years to friends and family playing a victim of abuse. Found where her and the new supply planned to have me made out to be a abusive person so she could have it easier to divorce me for him. It is a sick game they play. I have found at least 5 of our 7 years were a facade. One of the last things she said to me was "I have looked and am able to separate it out and the multiple affairs I had were not the problem in our marriage. You were the problem. Why can't you see that and get over it." That was when I realized there was something more than this amazing woman I had held onto the impression of. The mask had come off and she wasn't so amazing anymore but instead cruel. And yet I still have moments now where I feel I failed. If only I had been calmer and not gotten so upset. Like it plays with you. Am I in the wrong? I have a therapist. He even came out and said he thinks I have gone through heavy gaslighting. Not easy.
I mean I wasn't perfect in our marriage either. I certainly had my own share of problems. But I loved her. We did get into some arguments because of me. And I did say hurtful things in those moments. But I am mostly sure I apologized later. And I always and still feel awful for saying anything mean. But she really liked to say I spent our entire marriage putting her down. And says "It was every week for years". I remember being lazy if anything just playing video games not taking the time to deliberately be mean to my wife? She says I called her stupid all the time but I feel awful for each time I did and so I know it was only a handful of times. And a few of those times I said "That's stupid" not "You're stupid" which I realize kind of implies the same thing but one time was in reference to her saying she was going to hangout with the neighbor lady right after going on about how she hated her and how she was a cheating wife that did cocaine.
Thank you so much
@@kay5266 Thank you for letting me get it all out. Sorry for long comments. I am still processing and I think it's going to be a long road ahead.
I am happy to be another person to validate your feelings and trauma. We are twins in this. They all may be different in ways, but their patterns are usually so similar huh, and in the end, it’s all just as damaging. I am sending you all the love I can and hope that even as a stranger on CZcams, sane and all, that this is one step further to your calming anxieties and justified fears and struggles. You are strong and can be more than “survival mode” one day, you can be even more resilient than you already are. And hopefully we will all finally learn to stop shaming ourselves for surviving theses psycho and sociopaths ❤️💕🤞🏼
I've known I was co-dependent since I did some self-help stuff in the 90s but NOBODY has ever made me understand the way you have. I don't know what it is about your communication style, but if you'd been around back then I may have made better progress. Hat tip to John Bradshaw, though. I think he was good for the times.
The other day I had a HUGE AH HA moment that is most likely 99% YOUR fault. 😉
I was telling my sister what a jerk my h was being that day and how I had told him to knock it off.
She asked- Well what happened? Did he have a bad day at work?
I replied- WTH difference does THAT make? He doesnt get to be a jerk to me regardless of the day he had!!
👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
My sister said- Im sorry. Did I dial the wrong #? I thought I was talking to my "makes excuses for everyone's behavior" sister!
I said - Well I guess THAT sister is gone cuz this one cant be bothered with excuses anymore!
The TRUELY AWESOME part was that I MEANT EVERY WORD.
I have taken responsibility for how I allow ppl to speak to & treat me. And I no longer feel bad for not taking whatever crap ppl feel like handing me. THANK YOU for the big part you played in that!!
It seems the “prey” in the diad has an undervalued sense of self, leading to poor boundaries and tendency to absorb criticism of others, (also making them susceptible to the love bombing) while the “predator” has an exaggerated sense of self, leading to equally poor boundaries. Once the “honeymoon phase” is over, love bombing turns to aggressive criticism by the predator and passive acceptance of that criticism by the prey.
In my case it also maybe leads to the thought "Ah, finally i'm back, where i think i belong. All this praising and be shown love felt weird, because deep down i know i'm a piece of dirt."
Thanks mom for making me feel like a piece of shit at my core, with which I now poison every relationship i engage in.
I'm still advocating a parenting license. Or at least legalize those shrooms. Some imprints from early childhood are too deep to just change with some affirmations and exercises. I need to get my brain into a state of neuroplasticity like that of a child again - and then do these affirmations and exercises. Maybe then they will stick.
For a person who says they don't have much understanding of this area you just gave the best explanation, I have seen of this dynamic. Thank you!
I agree 👍
My ex used to call me a masochist all the time. I feel that should have been a big clue about that whole relationship, lol. And that he knew exactly what he was doing.
Omg me too! Hahahah and I definitely enjoy pain sometimes not gonna deny it
VERY POWERFUL, concise and very very clear. I completely agree with what you're saying because have been through it all of my life and finally pushed by someone to the point of complete self discovery and what it is I"m doing. What you've said about being abused by predator and by self ouch...soo True. Self awareness, facing your part and stepping away from it; very liberating!! Thanks so much for your work, it's tremendously changing healing process for me!
I call the narc, the grain of sand that irritated me enough to become a pearl! I’m not a flawless pearl but I’ve learned to love myself and like myself regardless of others opinions... Top 2 rules: #1 No crazy Allowed #2 I decide what’s crazy!
As far as codependency goes trying to fix and appease, “ I didn’t break it so I can’t fix it” I can only fix what’s in myself, I am responsible for me only
I feel I’ve learned so much this past year, the information and my brain feel like a cartoon dog, legs trying to catch up to its body. All a bit arse first, but has the potential to come together. I’m going to take some time to process. Things are becoming clearer. Thank you Richard.
It was only when I had children that I went no contact with my abusive family and started to set firm boundaries with others. You relive your own childhood when you have kids - for good or bad - and somehow motherhood enabled me to finally stand up for myself. Perhaps I didn’t want my children to witness me as a victim, nor did I want them to become victims, themselves, by modeling my unhealthy behaviors. The milestone of parenthood seems to have been the catalyst that finally woke me up to difficult truths and necessary changes. Parenthood is a cataclysmic experience for everyone, even those who had great childhoods. For me, it assisted in working through some lifelong destructive patterns of victimhood.
I feel like I’m currently in a stage of isolation, and not only because of the Plandemic. I feel burned after a lifetime of abuse (regardless of whether or not I enabled it) and don’t want to be with people. I genuinely prefer the company of animals. This suggests that I may not have found the healthy adult balance you speak of, but for now that’s okay.
What you do is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself, and really caring for us on the other end. Your work is meaningful, impactful, transformative. You transcended your childhood story and became a hero. I admire your strength and willingness to show up and give, give, give to us. It’s received with upmost gratitude.
Thank you for doing white board. Easier to show my friend & try to get him out of denial (decades of Narcissist abuse). Haven't been able to get my friend to watch any videos :(
Appreciate your time & dedication to educate us all.
Thank you for sharing your personal story - it's more relatable & there isn't much material for men victims.
Very clear explanation of what you've been communicating indirectly for some time. Thank you.
Thank you, Richard. I was such a fawn. Got beat up by the narc for 35 years, culminating in abandonment. If not for my counselor, you, and Pete Walker, I would still be lost in an emotional spiral. It's been a long journey. According to Pete Walker, an abandonment wound is the worst because you don't really have a memory of any concrete trauma to point the finger at. So I should be grateful to the narc for abandoning me. Otherwise I would never have known.
When the words float into your ears and you instantly feel like vomiting ... those were probably the words you needed to hear.
Yep watching Richard and Sam Vaknin always make me feel sick because they are revealing the truth of my hellish relationship with the ex narc and family etc 😰 At least I know now but difficult to hear....
Sam Vaknin is a narc but Richard have never said he has the same disorder has he?
@@pernilladomander7648 not, but did Vaknin just replaced an other narc in his life? The new narc, where Richard has a more pleasant role in the "theater" of that narc?
Well said! I’m sorry that ANY of us are needing to take this medicine, but since we have been operating out of that sickness anyway, I am on my knees grateful that this guy pours his life energy into helping us in a way that only someone from the inside can. I often have an avoidance reaction when his videos come up, but I know that even if it hurts, it will be good for me. Three cheers for the man we CAN HEAR!
I have been listening to you for very long time.
I owe you a pint.
Thank you for helping me understand me
Cheers mate
I had to come back and listen one more time.
Brilliant Richard!
I like it first and than I watch it 😉
YAS! We trust him so much LOL :-)
Lol total submission 😂
Wait a sec...did you just do that?!?! I literally did the exact thing!!! I like saw his face and title, liked then started watching 🤣🤣
@Phil Ricketts theres no one nominated we would blindly trust/vote for :) ah, politics
So do I. Because I already know I will like it.
Yes! Thank you Richard, Co-Dependency and Narcissism are two sides to the same coin!
This just BLEW my mind! I have never heard codependency described this way. This has unlocked some issues for me! Thank you!
“The fawniest fawn that ever fawned” 😂😂😂😂🙏 love you Rich.. so wise and so funny at times too! 👍❤️
This is a much more elaborated version that is taught in domestic violence counseling (especially women who are beaten for just glancing at someone of the opposite sex ... "Sleeping with the Enemy" movie portrays this dynamic). Beaten women have to be talked out of "the glance" being their fault (and yet they know it is not their fault, but again, they feel they have to please the narcissist).
I am going to suggest this video on my own blog as I think this is a better way to teach it in domestic violence counseling rather than going over and over the brainwashing ("No, you don't deserve to be hit! Hitting is not a reasonable response to glancing at anything!"). This breaks it down and I think would have a greater impact at educating women in terms of "toxic attachment" to a narcissist.
Great video.
sexist coment, lost credibility.
Richard. Bravo. Thank you for being transparent about where you are in your healing, it’s humbling.
Thank you for making this video Richard! It makes a lot of sense and it is also validating. A change in perspective can make all the difference.
This was incredibly helpful! Your videos have been one of the best tools for understanding myself and the abuse I’ve experienced. Thank you for what you do❤️
So true! The closer I get to my "moving on" date its like in a nightmare running from something chasing you in panic for your life then realizing you've been stuck running in slow motion! And their gaining on you! Recovering codependent/scapegoat... Years of work on my way to balance, after final ending detachment of old life. Thank you! 💛
Thank you Richard, you are such an amazing man!
WOW, totally explains every single relationship in my life. The last break up brought me to my knees. But, thanks to you and all the vids..really helped me see my role, my accountability in all of it, and I am recovering 9-1/2 months now...feeling a bit healthier..still have a long way to go..
I am so happy that you talked about the REFUSAL to say no and that it's neurotic and not conscious. Made me sigh in relief and grief at the same time. That is exactly what it is. I have tried to work on this for several years but it's so DIFFICULT
well done. grace and gratitude for your clarity, directness, teaching, wisdom, and guidance.
I agree. It seems to me to be a very fine line, like a ridge where both edges meet and bond together to create a new form. It takes persistence and consistent care and consciousness to determine a safe foothold so not to slide down the slippery slopes on either side - preditory or prey. Understanding and acting from the standpoint of my moral concept of good versus evil seems to be the access point for what determines my safe and secure foothold. Thanks for your insight and teachings, Richard. I appreciate the support you offer.
Dear Richard - I think I had problems understanding this state of being because of the vocabulary. I have spent many hard years doing everything by myself, without asking or accepting any kind of help, support, recompansation, gifts, even kindnes - because I was doing my best to be independent. ( no dependent or needy ) I have been hearing this word for decades as a shameful description of a female. That’s how I understood it. - However, according to your presentation here, I am prone to believe I spent most of my life trying to prove my independence by being a life support : for a husband, brother, parent, friends, pets, bosses, you name it ! I see how my initial problem was my yearning desire to prove myself worthy . My underlying issues revolve around being disconnected from my self & wanting so badly to be seen in a good light. Let’s say, starving for approval .. which I never got .I have come to realize that, the approval I seek isn’t “ out there somewhere “ but rather inside my self. I was trying to find permission to approve myself ! Since I wasn’t getting self approval - I went outside to seek it in others. Unfortunately , this is an endeavor that’s destined to fail - because .. if I’m sending out vibes that I hate myself , I will not connect with people who appreciate & enjoy me. I spent my life looking for people to protect & rescue ; and it finally dawned on me to stop
because I’ve run out of energy & funds. I also see how my plan is rubbish. So I took myself out to sit on the sidelines. & do myself a favor - stop trying to get people to like me, stop looking for people to help. I thought I was clean & clear. But when I got fired from my job mid March because of c19 it became clear to me that I was addicted to working as a way to justify my right to live. I truly feel worthless without a job ! Wow ! What an amazing discovery ! I spent the next weeks & months trying to see if I can develop appreciation for just being alive. ~ after 90 + days, I’m doing pretty good.. So good, that I went right back to my old habits this past Friday. I took responsibility for someone else’s situation & gave them $20. Then I got into a long chat with a charismatic street vendor. I was on a roll . ~ The next day , I crashed & felt like shit. I took it as a warning sign to slow down . I was planning to go out & meet my ‘new friend ‘ but
I thought it over, & decided to stay home. I did an assignment instead. I’m used to taking charge & being responsible for others .✅ Thanks for all the updates, Richard. I consider you a friend. Many thanks for helping with these issues. And as always, best wishes 💫
I am SO glad I watched this! So enlightening. Wow! I literally feel like a veil has been lifted.
I have watched your channel over several years. This video is particularly helpful. I also recall a video several years back that was especially useful. I have desperately tried to break out of the scapegoat/black sheep/ codependent/ potential borderline roles/ fleas. The work is so exhausting. What is the most difficult thing is the intense grief that comes alongside the process of getting better. Its easy to trick yourself into believing something must be terribly wrong when you actually purge all of these roles. I'm a firm believer the closer we can be rooted in reality the more sane we become. That is difficult when yours has been profoundly distorted for so long and it's not just a relationship thing it is societal one. I am wishing you strength and self preservation.
Yes makes total sense absolutely correct .u have articulated hands on past experience .Thank u
That was very enlightening, opened my eyes to realize my own faults and refuse others faults as my own feelings of fulfilment
Wounded warriors attract and react etc,infinity....
No time like the present for healing souls.
I really enjoyed listening to your videos because they don’t drag on their full of information and you obviously have a very strong understanding of what victims of this go through. Your voice is very comforting.
Brilliant again, Richard. You said it all.
Interestingly enough, the comment that I put down to a video I had of yours, this morning, specifically spoke about this mirroring effect that occurs between the narcissist and it’s supply.
You are giving me so much clarity in this subject and I am pleased that it shows that I am ready to hear it all. My sister refuses to listen to anything I say although her relationship screams of narcissistic abuse. She says that she loves him too much. I did ask one question, “Is it love or are you addicted to that way of being treated ?” She gets this treatment from her partner as well as from our mom, who is a Narc. I would go so far as to say that my sister is and has always been the scapegoat but refuses to see it.
As for me, as soon as I said NO to both my husband and my mom, life has been way much sweeter than before. They both looked at me as if I was some creature from another planet 😂😂😂😂
OMG!! I have to transcribe this, read it over and over and over again, then eat it and digest it!! RG, you are so articulate and correct. It’s been a long time since I’ve heard explanations that have crystalized the functionality of this dyad. I would go one step further though, and say that there is manipulation on both sides. Co-dependents ARE manipulative. They had have to be, in order to perpetuate the relationship. It is safe, it is familiar and it is all we know. Thank you for this!🌺
I agree... totalling ironic mirroring dynamic. I find the whole thing... paradoxes... really all just way too interesting! Perfect paradigm for inspiring artistic expression! Which is a good thing. Considering not much else good ever seems to come out of such horrible & evil experiences! 🖤 ❤ 👿 🙈 🖤❤
Yes. That’s where the co dependence guilt comes from,’ must b reckoned with. Thanks for being vulnerable .
Your ability to generate sass is multiplied generously when you are generating from a place where you admittedly still occupy at times....(codependency). Which I appreciate so very much because i am there too. I'm currently identifying and managing my own grotesque narcissistic behaviors from the position of a non narcissistic personality disordered codependent and when you made the comment about going to the tigers den and sticking your face in its mouth and then crying "it got me again!" I laughed. Like a real belly laugh. The first one I've experienced in quite some time. You are so very right, my friend.
Explained so well... my psychosis of people pleaser started turning around when I realized “I was not that great”
When I begin being honest with myself and was willing to acknowledge that I had the agenda of being liked, that it was the reason “I was so good”
A bit like the drama triangle. Getting out of victim mode.
One of the MOST informative 13:43 minutes ever! Thank you!
Just the ticket mate, thank you. These straight up, raw videos are my favourite.
9:50 I appreciate your humor so much! Even tough the topic is rough, you make it so much easier to understand by using your metaphors and humor!
Spot on! Ran away for good. What a liberation!
You are so right. I was "discarded" by a codependent where he chose to please the narc who victimised herself and put me in the blame. I lost a group of friends overnight and it's devastating. Tried to mend the friendship with the codependent but he rejected by saying it's for the good sake of everyone because everyone feel bad meeting me. 😅
Thanks for sharing! Working on healing everyday~ ☺️
I feel called out. 😆 I totally see it. I’ve got some thinking to do. Thank you.
So much truth in this video..I used to be blinded by this truth, but God revealed and removed the blinders from my eyes..thank you Lord Jesus so I can stop the cycle for my daughter
Very validating. My sister tore up the city we grew up in and was a whirlwind of chaos. I did that for awhile and then switched over to the church scene for awhile getting saved about 20 times and tried to be so 'good'. The leg lengthening prayer tents were alluring, but I knew there was more to it than just having a demon like my mom thought was the problem. 😁 Two extremes. It finally makes sense now. We are both finding our tree of life in the middle . Not too good or not too bad. My sweet mother even told me last night that if we wouldn't have skipped bible camp to go smoke stolen cigarettes in the woods behind the church, our lives would have turned out better. 🚬😍 I get it but took a long time. I can love my parents from a different angle now. Feels so much better!!.
Awareness slammed me last year😕🧐 it’s been a journey, progress is slow but certain...during one of my “shifts” in perspectives , the NP became ill with a number of conditions, congestive heart failure the biggest issue, and has been under hospice care ever since.. thank you for this video, it’ showed me I’ve made a lot of progress with in myself...
Thanx for making it more plausible and catchable, dear, Richard. I noted on the previous one too.
Thank you so much Richard for this I so so needed this after finding out all the stuff on my narc recently and boy am I about to sort this shit now! Thanks for all the videos it’s taken me a few years to build this courage but with all I know now I’m ready 💪 to reclaim ME ! X
This is your best video I've seen so far... (I've only seen like 3 so far but I've watched tons of videos on narcissism and codependent personify traits, family and romantic relationships, and this one is really really good) so much hard ball truths in such a short time and it didnt feel generalized or vague like some videos that try to explain narcissism by text book definitions or adding rationalizations to why these people act the way they do. I like that you didnt bother answering why so much as just stating the behaviors the victim/martyr role that I hate watching play out and so glad i broke away from (healing still in progress). The Diad is so true and it's far more important to me to try and reach victims and help victims become more self aware of their vulnerabilities because confronting the narcissist is useless and hazardous but codependent victims have more chance of change through self reflection and they deserve every chance possible to make that change.
Wow! "Universe is always by my side!" Indeed! 😇
Thank you Richard, this topic I started to expand and sharing in the morning, and now at the end of the day I have very good explanation example. 🙏
You have mentioned in other videos about how childhood trauma messes with the brains hard drive. The default setting from childhood gets taken into adulthood like dragging a big lump of leaking leathery luggage.
Choosing partners...as you say not simply "falling prey" who are remote or abusive because it's what you know. The push and pull, the fight, the roller coaster the need to repair the broken parent keeps sending you back into similar adult relationships.
"You will love me!!!" And "I can heal you!!!"
Obviously you can't.
You just end up in pieces and the process of putting yourself back together is not only exhausting but harmful to your sense of self...if no lessons are learnt.
You often become a bit of a monster yourself by being in the ring with them.
I have sometimes felt like The Terminator.
I have sometimes felt like R2D2
Sometimes like a clockwork tin toy.
Not myself. Not thriving. Focusing on Who I Can Be.
Pumped full of my virus and theirs.
Perfect for toxic and disordered individuals as neurotically squirting emotional juice keeps them fed and you wilted. Self loathing, self sabotage...often lurking in the luggage behind the socks and clean undies.
As you say...sealing the holes in your fortress, saying "no" stepping away to rewire the system...removes you from this demented dance with abusers, losers, users and...er schmoozers? 🤔😆
Anyway...good stuff!
Wow you get it
By the end of the relation I was thinking to my self that both of us were in a team against my self. I came to this understanding when I started to look at some situations I 've been through. Submiting is the way I learned to survive in a very dangerous situation as child and a teenager.
Thanks for seeing that codependency is so much about the attachment to goodness, and explaining this diad so clearly.
Richard you are doing amazing stuff. It is making me question everything!
Thanks Richard, your great to listen too and really helping me through recovery.
WONDERFUL VIDEO RICHARD!!! 🍃💞🍃. FINALLY...SOMEONE TELLS IT LIKE IT IS! 🥰🥰🥰 WAY TO WAKE THE WORLD UP!!!! 👌👌👌. LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!!!!
I have to say that this was magnificently explained. Thank you! This helped me understand my loop I've been in. The war with the Logic side vs emotional . I understood but needed this to make it crystal clear.
I so very much love your wisdom.
Thank you for all that you do.
I just stumbled across this video, and had to chuckle. This is so dead on! Beautiful 🤩 I right in the middle (well, closer to the end) of the realization of my part in that relationship. Sheesh!
Love your stuff. You always make me laugh with your very direct approach.
This echoes a very recent breakthrough of mine, it's not like no-ones heard it but somehow the words properly reached me this week. Very very much relevant I think to both narcassists and 'co dependants' and a lot of both will do both to varying degrees... 'nobody owes you anything' and 'you do not owe anybody anything'. I knew I was a people pleaser a while back bit considered myself an ex people pleaser, I'd improved a little but hadn't realised how insidious it was. I was so accustomed to people pleasing that I'd felt at times, on a surface level anyway, like I wanted to do things that I actually didn't want to, I'd convinced myself I did!! Often things that weren't even asked for, I'd just 'want' to do x, when I tune in with my body and how I truly feel I find that no, I did not want to do x at all actually. It feels so liberating to have or at least be in the process of casting away another layer of this and learning that my own feelings, choices and boundaries are entirely valid and learning how to confidentially assert myself to be able to commu image them. Phew...
This! This is why these relationships are so intense and so completely destructive. I lived it many times and I'm now out. Still codependency is a major influence on my life as I learn to heal
I kept seeing an image of an unhealthy partner, even after they were long gone. Gaping wounds on them. I instantly felt guilt, that I didn't save them. Then I finally clicked, those wounds were mine. I just needed that mirror to finally see my own damage. Rage is what I felt. Not at that person, at the fact that I didn't think I was worth being seen. It took the re-enactment of my toxic childhood to realise, I never mattered. I am still healing. But I am repelled by that same dynamic now, makes my skin crawl. The lesson repeats until it is learnt.
I feel so called out Richard. Lol. Thank you❤
Loved the truth behind the comment at 10 minutes.. im a codependant, showing up for more dishes of pain really resonates
Are there some questions a cpd can ask oneself when showing up , to determine if their actions are satiating others or also serve themselves in order to break the pattern? I want balanced relationships, that meet my personality needs .. i/e ntp
This was so informational and helpful. Thanks for all you do and share. 🙏 Saving this video for later as well.
Thank you for your candid approach to this topic. I needed to see this today.
This is brilliant! Boundaries and loving the Self... oooo it’s hard but recovery to be an Adult and take accountability and change your subconscious programming .... got keep going... secure attachment is the goal ... in the middle ❤️
I’m super excited about this new series. The two recordings I’ve heard the last two days have been awesome. Richard, you have no idea how much I am helped by your videos ( for well over a year now). Thank you so much for doing this.
OMG great video. A little more relatable than I wish were true, but you are right with what you say. Codependent here, only recently woken up to myself and it's rough and super confronting but from here I grow, right? Thanks for explaining so well.
Beautifully put! I practice my recovery every day, setting and keeping boundaries. Thank you for helping us continue to heal.
With regards to narcissism! The worst case scenario is being born to a parent or parents that are narcissistic and then growing up in that environment. I am 3 years next month discovering that I am codependent. I have not looked into my mothers eyes 5 years this January 😊. Good little clip Richard 👊
I think this Is exactly what attracts each other, Deep Down, aside from the chance for manipulation and the desired outcome...we see their wounds and they sense our vulnerability , sharing the same feelings of shame and not being enough, both blocked and froze that traumatized child
You invited questions,sir. Do you believe in ruined humans? I had a horrendous childhood and stayed stuck in the patterns that are a natural result of the multi flavored forms of abuse until now, as I am getting educated and forming agency. There was a “ me” that existed deep inside before any “they” happened to me. I have strengths and blessings and gifts, but man, most of the time it just feels like too much went wrong for too long, and the best that I can hope for is some improvement, but I do feel like a ruined human. Can everyone learn to find the healthy self within, or are most of us doomed to spin in our infinity with only glimpses of the person who might have been?
Richard, This is brilliant about scapegoated prey and martyrdom identification. I just had a serious “aha” moment while watching this video. Thanks for all the great work you do. I’ve learned so much from you over the years. All the best.
You described my sister and her husband perfectly, thanks for the insight
Would it possibly make more sense to say that the co-dependent (prey) is consciously blind-sighted and doesn’t realize they have a choice versus emphasizing their unconscious refusal/unwillingness? I do understand, however, that when healing occurs that the denial fades and willingness to step out of the co-dependent role occurs. Thank you.
I honestly wonder sometimes IF my refusal to set a boundary actually was UNconscious. I KNEW I was being taken advantage of. I KNEW that the things that were said to me were just plain mean. I KNEW I was capable of defending myself because I grew up as the "protector" in my family...... What I also knew was that there was a price to pay for going against them. They would be angry. They would stop talking to me. ( my mom favorite punishment for me as a kid) They would tell me how disappointed they were in me.
Basically I KNEW I COULD SAY NO AND CHOSE NOT TO!! I can look back now and CLEARLY SEE that I allowed shitty ppl in my life, who would treat me as nadly as I thought I deserved and THEN bent over backwards to prove I was worthy of THEM! 👀😒😮😯👀
It was life changing for me the 1st time I heard Richard say I played a big part in my dysfunctional marriage by ALLOWING his lies & abuse to continue.
Needless to say I DONT DO THAT anymore. My marriage dynamic has totally changed since I quit looking at myself as a victim. It was very empowering.
No. First the denial fades, then the healing starts.
Carla Heine I hear you.. that happens often (denial ending first) but to my surprise as well I’ve seen it the other way around as well..
D. Williams I agree, we’re lucky when people let us know we have a choice..... especially with situations like these where it’s so easy to get stuck. I’m very grateful for Richard as well.. He makes the healing process So much more accessible than most people..
Think it’s a defense mechanism like fight, flight or freeze but there is a 4 th and that is fawn you feel powerless thus ...However it’s a learned powerlessness either from family or the narc or both. Think the clue is to take back that power.
Both are addicted to the need of being seen, loved, needed, it’s a crazy making cycle.🤦♀️
I work with people mired in and moving out of codependency.
Firstly I wish to tell you that you are brave.
Secondly, that you are honest.
Thirdly, you clearly have empathy, a desire to help and to pass on wisdom.
Well that's a few things under thirdly....
I also like that you don't ask people to do what you haven't done. Yet.
You're much further out of the cycle of codependency than you realise.
You are well.
You are healed.
Believe me.
Lorcan (psychotherapist, former co dependent, and former mirror to a very nasty narcopath).
You are so giving but there are many of us out here receiving while praying for you daily. May God bless you and continue to work in and through you to help people to know the truth. We shall know the truth and the truth will set us free! Thank you Richard. Keep up the amazing work and your incredible curiosity and objective philosophical approach to psychological issues.
Thank you for this video. My husband is the scapegoat in his family, with his narcissistic mother. What you say makes so much sense and I’ll forward it to him. Thank you again.
"Putting my Fukin' Face in the Tigers Mouth" OMG yes indeed. *Fearless to a Fault* why DO we do that?!?!
You are a badass man. That part about "refusing to defend themselves", give it back, etc. really hit home. It is such a Catch-22 scenario. You sit there and don't defend yourself and it is like they resent you for it and look at you like you are weak, etc. If you DO defend yourself, prepare for WWIII. Either way you are screwed. Man, it is amazing when the dots connect and I can see myself in a scenario or situation that happened. I never thought I'd ever be here. Sometimes it is like I was watching someone else going thru that abuse.