Li-ion Revolution??? Honest test of new mindblowing battery for RC airplanes and more, Molicel P45B
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2023
- Molicel P45B
Li-ion battery
eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-io...
#namaxa_media
#WojtekBrzozowski
#EDFjetRC - Věda a technologie
Thank you for this awesome test footage and tet in general. I make Ebike batteries and i will recomend peoeple watch your video so they can see how amazing these P45bs are. Your 100% right about Lipos swelling up. Everyone use to say how greatv they are for hi amps. That was in the old days, new builda=s are exceeeding what use to be acceptable. Thank you and hope you dont mind if I show a clip of the results from your test. Cheers hopefully it will add a few views but you seem to be doing very well with them!
Thank you for the Video. I made two 6s1p packs one spotweldet one soldered just to try and see the differences. Both are working fine but i can not share the enthusiasm. The batterys are rated with 10C burst 20C and that is what you get. Not more, not less. In my freewing Avanti i draw ~75 Amps 6s1p and 82A with 6s2p. With a 6s 30C 5800mAh i draw ~100A. This is minimum 500W more. Thats for the numbers on the testbench. I'll see how it behaves in flight. But i guess less weight will not compensate the lack of 500W.
Molycell wchodzą z przytupem na rynek. Dobry materiał.
Thank you so much for the actual practical data!! Bench tests are meh but actual flight testing is where it counts!! I am going to try some of these packs!! The weights are really impressive!!
Awesome, thanks for sharing! Imagine these in the old Odyssey.
Thank you for sharing your experience on these new batteries. As you indicated, the construction of the batteries matters and it is for this reason that electric vehicles use the same cylindrical batteries as their power source. I'm sure that this LiOns will continue to improve and it might actually displace LiPo cells when you consider the longevity and durability aspects. I do hope RC battery manufacturers are paying attention and will offer pre-assembled packs using the same Molycel P45B for those of us who are not adept at soldering tabs and balancing wires. Again excellent video and please keep these informational stuff coming. Thanks.
I've used the sony VTC6 18650 for quads and they had the best discharge to current rate. The molicel were my favorite 21700 but, li-ion really isn't good for high amp draw full throttle runs they're great for long range fpv quads and wings though. You can buy pre built li-ion packs from a bunch of brands just check what cells they use. I solder my own but, you can and probably should get a spot welder for $50. I order all my cells off 18650batterystore but, if you live outside the U.S. they might be cheaper elsewhere just don't trust Aliexpress cells haha.
Ordered! Thanks for the information! Can’t wait to see that FEJ Liberty in the air!
It is heavly modified inside. It is going to take 16s 9kW Jetfan-100PRO and the aim is 400km/h
@@EDFjetRC Geez! That sounds like fun!
This is awesome 👏
I tested the Cell too. I can approve that a 6s pack can deliver 78A for take off or a few seconds. It’s possible to fly the stock avanti S for 3,5min with a average current draw of 48A.
I flew the Avanti with 7s9000 and it's 1:1 and used @8000mAh each flight. Amazing cells! I set to 2.7v under load and start thinking of landing when it's right at 21v at half-throttle.
Hi Nick, As that 6s1p4500 package follows, I am waiting to receive these cells to test it on an Avanti S v1 with the edf 9 blade stock. I have my doubts if it could work!
Cool! Although datasheet says 45A :) You have created a really cool channel!
Thak you for sharing this important information. I will buy some and try.
Thanks Wojtek for testing this Molicel. I used already the Samsung batteries but will definitely switch to this one. Unfortunately, the entire stock here in the Netherlands has gone to Poland ...LOL.
They are restocking constantly :)
Thank you .please manufacture them . 😃👌🤩
I immediately ordered Molicel P42A because P45B are not in stock.
I hope to get a similar performance here.
Thank you for your videos. ✌
The Samsung 40T and 50S are stronger than P42A
@@EDFjetRC Oh no. 😮
Thanks anyway.
@@EDFjetRC The 50S will be hot enough to cook a pizza if you attempt to push out more power than a P42A
What makes the p45b so special?
Great video. Thanks for effort to show to us new ideas for power on EDF jets. Is there a reason why there is no new information about LiIon batteries for EDF jets for almost a year? Did you give up on that project because the batteries are not good for EDF? How did the batteries "Molicel INR21700-P45B 4500mAh - 45A" for EDF use perform? Is the power of 45A enough for maximum performance, for example Avanti V2 or E-flite Viper?
Yes I want to know much more about better batteries.
Thank you for sharing this, incredible! What current meter are you using for your open TX radio?
Emailed you the other day to get the STL files for the battery holders, was wanting to make my own packs.
Thanks Wojtek, that's excellent information. But for most of us, all of the work needed to transform them into a usable RC battery, (with something like your pods/internal wiring/connector plugs/balance charger leads) is probably too much for the average Jo both in terms of skill and time needed. Which begs the question why haven't RC battery manufacturer's started producing these in a readily usable form for us? When they do I'll be happy to give them a go, but until then I'll be sticking with some of the better quality 6,000mAh batteries for my edf's.
There are kits that allow you to stick some pieces together on the positive and negative end of the cell and use little bus bars to connect them. Its called Vruzend. It....sucks honestly. For most people its okay but it has some big problems.
1. Tightness/fit directly correlates to connection strength. At the end of the day this system will never be as solid as a good spot weld or solder connection so high discharge applications are out the window.
2. Don't need high discharge? Cool just need capacity? No problem but it has to be stationary....so everyone looking at this for the low/medium discharge ebike/escooter/PEV application is no longer a customer. The design just isn't strong enough for how violent a mobile application is. It's also not the most structurally rigid way of making a large pack so up to a certain size it works but beyond the 1kwh'ish size of battery in 18650 you realize its just too much plastic for in all the wrong areas.
The 3D printed cell holder/DIY lipo in a lion can design is a pretty straightforward copy of the cell holders that have been around for years that click together in 1,2,3 segnment pieces for whatever size you want (even 5x5 sheets or bigger). Its just more refined for soldering thick wire to the terminals and let me just say this so I can get jumped on
I don't think soldering to high discharge cells is very smart. Micah Toll did a video wtih a thermal camera and THREE second solder joints. Not a second more. The amount of heat that spreads across the outside of the can is....scary. You know to a degree some of that is making its way deeper. At least with spot welding the heat is so fast that it disappears off the thermal camera in a couple seconds. Unfortuantely only a a couple commercial spot welders under $500 can do copper or the copper/nickel sandwhich method and people don't seem to understand how easy it is to make a spot welder that rivals the kWeld at 1500A. Plenty of timer control boards nowadays on Ali, "energy storage board" PCB's for your mosfets are like $10 and capacitors are the safest way to harness that much power. So whenever 3000F capacitors come down to like $80 for a set of 5 or 6 we'll finally star seeing spot welding in every battery project up to 0.2mm copper
Hi
Looking forward to your next video.
Could you do a quick video on your horus x10, as all my suppliers say frsky is not very good but see you have said you've never had any problems with open tx etc and frsky and to be honest I think you have more knowledge than the people I have spoke with.
Thanks
If the P45B is too expensive for you but the 40T isn't enough power I highly recommend the 30T. It even edges out the P42A in the first few seconds but then the P42A slowly holds voltage better because it has more capacity
the p45b's are donw in price almost in half now.
I'd love to try these cells in my EL-39. Would save a lot of weight compared to my 5 Ah lipos.
I wonder what the resistance of the electrode to cap connection is in 21700 and similar construction cells. I think they might need to improve the construction to cope with higher currents soon as the internal contact area is quite small, judging from photos of cutaway cells.
Great information! Have you done a video on how to assemble these packs?
Great videos, I have had some of your Subscribers ask me for the files for your lion battery 3D printed parts. I had the files from you a few years ago. Hope you don't mind me sharing these. They said they could not get hold of you. I did mention you on Facebook and that I had used your battery parts.
I have a question. As its so hard to ge the p45B can you use the Molicel P42A 21700 4200mAh 45A batterys for EDF? mainly 90mm edfs
Hello
To recharge your batteries between 2 flights, do you use several chargers? Or do you recharge them in parallel with a board?
Due to the size of the packs, the chargers must have enough power to charge quickly.
Thank you for sharing your findings on these batteries!
Hey Wojtek!
Thank you for a great eye opener right there. Can you advise if a 4s1p (P42A) molicel pack would withstand 70A max Amp draw on a 70mm jet or should I go with my coresponding capacity LiPos ?
Thank you for your information.
P.S.
Do you solder or spot-weld the cells together?
finally found these in the USA they are more than double cost of the T50 but seem to be the better for sure!!!
Where?
I saw them at 7.99 and figured I'd wait until they drop to 6.... something, but now that same site is 12.99 ea!
@@deadstickduck2025 Yes i just ordered some more at the 7.50 per cell.
Which is better a li ion only or with bms for autonomous drones.
What size nickel strip are you spot welding onto your li ion cells?
Can anyone confirm the nominal capacity before the final discharge knee point at 15A? On the P42A's it was roughly 3500mAh.
Whats about the P42A cells?
WOW , nice nice nice , ... its gamechanger i think ... ;-) I will fly them in my VIPER for sure .... ;-) I fly the SAMSUNG 40T for 2 years now im my AVANTI and VIPER BH , i was searching for new energy 2 years ago for me EDF jets , LIPO was NOT DONE anymore for me , flighttimes 3.5 minute and the LIPO packs are expensive and not verry long lasting .... i search and i found Wojtek , i build some packs and i fly with it , i did't read the specs from the battery because Wojtek showed us that all this worked. Why i should make me worry about the specs ... and now i fly them for 2 years , not any issue with those LiIons , nothing PUFFED , and flighttimes double even 10 minutes instead off 3.5 minutes with LIPO in my avanti ... ;-) and now this new MOLI packs ... where we gonna end , its easy tho make those packs and cheap , with a low price 3D printer and some soldering parts you can make those packs , its not rocketsience , ... i'm a BIG FAN ... i like it ... i will only fly LiIons now ... and i don't need big factory's to make those LiIon packs , i will do it better them them ... ;-) its a part off the hobby now ... many thanks me friend to show us all off this ... ;-)
hi can you recommend a Power bank/station for at the field for charging?
great video, if i would like to make a pack that is comparable to a 4000mah 6s lipo pack, what would you suggest?
Try the EVE INR21700 40P...they are back in stock in 4 days...Nkon
Have you made a 6s pack with these batteries, if so how heavy is this pack
I have checked these lion cells, out of stock at the moment. I did notice in the description it states not to solder them?
Hi Wojtek, what voltage are you running the P45b's down to in operation, cheers.
Could anyone enlighten me? Like what would that mean for Battery packa that uses Molicel p45b?
Woukd it be better or faster or last longer or less voltage sag.
Because in my mind.. all cells from the 18 to the 21 to be the same.
A person helped me design a 52v 13.5ah P45b battery pack.
So what would that mean compared to other battery packa with different cells?
Where can I get the stl for the holders ?
hi woz .... do you have to reprogramme your esc to change to low voltage to 2.7v?
best is to switch it off or set to Nimh minimum cut off.
hai brother wojtek..which brand of your radio controller??
Wojtek, tell me please if you load such fully charged 8S battery 80A of current, to what level the voltage will drop?
depends. If the cell is warm than 3,375Volt
I bought 30 of these new batteries for my Viper 90mm. Unable to find a good stl file to build the end caps like you have. Is there any chance i could get the file or purchase for a few dollars?
sure, drop me a mail wojtek at namaxa.com
I think you should try hobbyking turnigy zippy lipo. They top!!
Top?? I think you mis-spelled "puff". Every single Zippy pack I've used or seen at the club field has puffed up like a sausage. No more of them for me.
hi, maybe someone asked before, but are you willing to share the beautiful 3d print files of the brackets for the 21700 cells?
Wojtek, great video, very informative, thank you. Would like to make 6S packs 5000mah, would that be 6 batteries? Any help you can help would be great, please.
check out my video on that: czcams.com/video/I090JQk2fMs/video.html
@@EDFjetRC awesome, thank you very much.
What kind of connector you use to weld the cells togehter?
czcams.com/video/I090JQk2fMs/video.html
How hot is too hot for these cells in your opinion? I am seeing 53 to 55c after a flight. Using the Molice P45B cells at 12S2P in a AF MB339 with HSD 105mm fan. Only getting around 95 amps full throttle in the air due to the voltage sag, should be around 105. Think voltage drop to around 41 volts at full throttle. Considering going to 13S to compensate for voltage sag. ESC can handle it and the rated thrust was achieved with 45 volts. Am getting a 7 minute flight with some throttle management which is awesome. Using around 6500mah.
55 C is on the safe side :) 70-80 C would be much
@EDF jet RC Thank you! Enjoy your videos and the innovation.
How can pack of six cells, (in series) deliver how much power/amperes? One cell, according to specs, can supply 45 amperes.
According to my theory, parallel connection is possible to increase power/amps. And series connection increasing voltage...
Thanks
When you charge the pack what amp rate do you charge them at?
max 3c so max 13,5A
Only half the weight of a Lipo of the same capacity ! Price too at around 8 Euros a cell makes for a low cost set up. What is the effective discharge C rating, must be pretty high. Can they charge just as fast ?
max charge 3C
I bet those are built like tesla 4680 cell with multi-tab inside
I am preparing to build a Li-ion 6s pack using the Molicel P45b cells, I will print (3d) battery holder with ASA filament, with that in mind is it possible for you to provide the STL files.Thank you
hi buddy... bought 6 of the molicels and built a 6S1P pack ... max amp on a 90mm 6s EDF was 89a but there was a significant sag after a few seconds burst and the pack could only deliver 60a. what performance are you getting from your 6s1p packs?
Check for cold solder on your pack. It should easly hold 89 Amps. The drop could be few Amp not 29!!!
You really should be spot welding 0.2mm copper for this level of current. It can be done with the copper nickel sandwich technique but requires a Kweld or a DIY spot welder that uses a "energy storage board" from Ali that has a dozen of the best mosfets available and a power source to match. Either the best 3S 5Ah-8Ah Lipo out there or 2 in parallel....or a 3000F Ultracapacitor bank in a 5S or 6s configuration. Other options would be SPIM08HP cells or new Headway 38120HP's. A very powerful AGM car battery should be able to get you there as well. I'm not confident enough to comment on what timer control board to recommend.
@@ericklein5097 OK, but what happens if you want to re pack your 8s pack to 6s pack like I do this week. With strong spotwelder you gonna have a really hard time removing the strips. I desoldered 8s to 6s in 10 minutes. Ready to fly 6s now :)
@@EDFjetRC Yes, you can risk putting holes in the negative terminals of your cells if you do the normal rolling technique of removing spot welded nickel with a pliers but I've never met a spot weld I can't remove and clean up with a dremel in 60 seconds. And I've removed nickel off A123 26650 cells. Only killed 2 out of 24 cells in the learning process.
The key to the technique is not to roll straight back, there has to be some side to side motion thats almost matching the cylindrical shape of the cell.
Then it comes down to the practicality of changing cells in a pack and remarrying them. I really try to avoid ever doing that to a cell more than once. Once a cell is married to a P group its best to keep it that way for its entire life. Moving it around constantly is just a battle in balancing then. This is why I advise people not to cut P groups when they are taking apart packs if they can utilize the cells in that P configuration
Here's Micah's video on soldering. Most of the heat is on the can of the shell but its unnerving to see that level of heat and I'm sure it's detrimental to a degree. So you have to balance how if a $100 spot welder is worth it. I can list the parts needed to build one if necessary, the spot welder is $100 and the power supply (battery/capacitor) is going to be $50 to $300 depending on what you want to do. A lipo is cheapest.
czcams.com/video/byvr-dwwao4/video.html
Hi Wojtek, fantastic video as always. I have an FMS viper 90mm flying on 6s 5000 lipo, should I make a 7s P45B pack to allow for voltage sag? Will a 6s P45B be enough? I have the cells but want to make the packs correct from the start.
i'm sure woz will confirm... you need 2 6s1p packs in parallel or a 6s2p ... that will give you at min a 90amp constant and much higher burst,
I would go for 6s2p Li-ion packs. Same punch and weight like LiPo 5000 but double flight time.
Thank you both for your replies, I will make two 6s packs and fly in parallel. 👍
plz explain how you get 166 amp out of one 8s pack, does it depend on the motor/fan setup correct?
Yes, that is correct
I noticed that they say to not solder. I assume that this is a guideline. Are they worried about a prolonged heat or will a quick spot weld be OK?
watch his other video on soldering. you can solder with big solder gun only a few seconds and it takes.
I have soldered 250 of the P42A cells and all started at 3.56v each new... and after soldering stay the same, excellent consistency. An 80W fat-tipped iron will flow 60/40 solder in 1 second and right after you can barely tell the cell end even raised a degree or two. Heat potential... not long-term heating of the joint is what counts. No way nickel straps/spot welding is going to handle 70...150+ amps. I use 8ga solid copper.
Also, pre tin the ends of the cells so when it's time to join bits, just have to melt the solder on both pieces and it's done.
Do not spot weld, nickel stripes are far to thin for this Amps! Look at my video: czcams.com/video/I090JQk2fMs/video.html
@@EDFjetRC Thanks for the advice. Looks like a hot iron for a second or 2 will be all in need on a prep'd surface.
@@deadstickduck2025 Thanks for the advice.
For my odyssye with jetfan 120 pro + 590kv, you convinced me to use 16s2p 9000mAh (with these P45B). I'm planning to buy a hobbywing flyfun 160A which is only rated to 14s lipo. However, during load, the voltage of li-ion is comparable to 14s lipo so that should be fine. But I am worried about the maximum unload starting voltage which is 16s, is this harmfull to the ESC?
Since you also used the HW flyfun 160A, how would you compare this ESC with the Mantis 150A? Which one is best to take for 16s li-ion setup? I've noticed the mantis is only rated to 12s ...
Funfly 160 does not start up on 16s and on 14s it shuts down at 120A, crap ESC. ZTW Mantis 150 works great on 16s and survives 200Amp short bursts!!!!
Don’t use the fly fun 160 hobbywing is going to discontinue the 130 and 160 for issues not holding voltage under load and not being able to power high pole count motors in edfs.
How to wiring each cell ? Do you have diagram ? I am trying to change from Li Po. Appreciated !!!
Please check our video regarding czcams.com/video/I090JQk2fMs/video.html
How is the safety of Li-ion compared with Li-po? I've heard the risk of fire is much higher with Li-ion which is holding me back of switching to Li-ion for my odyssey.
just the opposite :)
If you want to burn down your house, keep on flying on LiPo
How is the difference in power between a 6s pack molicel 45 and a good 6s pack lipocells?
very similar
@@EDFjetRC great, thank you for your answer
6s2p on this Li-ions will be the exact weight of 5000 6s LiPo battery, but double the flight time.
Which TX you use? Thanks
FrSky Horus X10 Express
what would the typical fight time of an edf model be on these batteries?
My Freewing F-22 on 12S2P configuration - 9 minutes, full throttle
My Freewing Gripen on 12S1p - 6minutes, mixed throttle
Figure at least 50% longer if you keep the average current in the 30-40A range, only using full power for verticals and a few fast passes. Instead of 5 minutes, 7-8min now. New 45B also 3C charge!
@@deadstickduck2025 3C Wow!
approx 50% longer than on LiPo
niby w latarkach sofirna/wurkkosa dodają kopa o jakieś 30% więcej lumen na starcie, chyba sobie kupię jedną na test.
I'm molicel in my high lumen flashlight.
I don't understnad.. on paper the maximum discharge rate is 45A, too low for these kind of applications. what do I miss here?
stop reading and start flying :)
@@EDFjetRC hmmm explain ?
If my videos are not convincing than no hope for you :):):)
@@EDFjetRC I’m just trying to understand
I came here to ask the same thing. I don't understand... Why do they specify 45A when it can clearly perform better?
Sorry for being stupid but the spec says 45 amp discharge but are we saying they can achieve 160 amps??
it can achieve 200 Amp. 45Amp is a constant discharge without cooling, for example inside e-cigaretes.
We pull double that spec for a few seconds at a time and throttling back to 65% for level flight... on the older P42A... these are a full level higher in performance, and run cooler.
Thanks. I have ordered 6 to make my first pack. Thanks for sharing the info. Very exciting
@@rays8935 czcams.com/video/I090JQk2fMs/video.html
Thank you my friend ❤️👍❤️👍❤️👍
Can you do a tutorial showing how to make and install the balance cable?
@Allens RC Adventures We need to do this!
@@sendit_rc For sure.
czcams.com/video/I090JQk2fMs/video.html
Made a 6s with these Li-ons.Doesnt have the punch.is it because it needs 6s 2sp in parallel?
czcams.com/video/wOlbUAeSqqk/video.html
@@sendit_rc Hi, could you give me a little more information on 6s 2sp please. I ask as I built a 6S using these batteries and they were lacking.
So, assuming I rub my last braincells the correct way, these P45B batteries should be more than adequate in 3s-4s pack for low power prop limited by 40A esc, while providing superior capacity compared to lipo packs of similar weight? Though volume can be an issue for smaller planes, being multiplicative of 21700 size
I think you should change your measuring equipment, your figures are twice the reality. with such a number your flight time would be less than a minute. my tests brought me to the vapcel R25
I have multiple measuring devices, some of them proffesional grade. My readings are correct.
Holding a larger EDF in your hand makes me nervous. At least put on a pair of gloves and eye protection!
But did he die??? 😂😂😂😂😂
@@gooniac33 Nice attitude
@@bohan9957 he already said it was a bad idea so I wont knock him. No disclaimer is bad but be got that covered!
I survived :)
@@EDFjetRC I balance EDF units all the time and forget to wear gloves … and miraculously I survive too! 😂😂😂
I have a CARF Rebel Hot. What EDF power system would you try in it?.
WeMoTec100 with HET700-83-1080kv motor on 12s2p or Jetfan100PRO with HET700-98-935kv on 12s2p of course on Molicel P45B. You will get ca 5,5kW 7,5kg thrust 300km/h
@@EDFjetRC Thank you!. Do you have an estimation of flight time with these setups?.