How Much Spray Foam Insulation do I need? | The most popular question answered
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- This is a re-do of the June 2017 version of this video. Music removed and info updated and improved. Enjoy!
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Pulling up actual data really adds a lot of value to your channel. Thank you for this.
My pleasure!
How is it that a free 9 minute youtube video could have saved me thousands of dollars, days of labor, and headache with my local installer if I did 2 inches instead of 6 in my office build knowing this information. Hats off to you sir. Is there a way to donate to your channel? You will have literally saved me probably $15k or more on my current project I'm about to start. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and knowledge in these videos!
You need to ensure that whatever amount of SPF you place in will meet with local codes first.
@@SprayJones Agreed. My buildings are not subject to building insulation codes just my personal preference on thermal efficiency.
This is a great video. Really appreciate you putting it together. I was worried about "only" putting 3 inches of cc foam in my new build house. No longer. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
Thank you! Finally someone explaining this in a simple way. You guys are amazing.
Thank you, glad to help that is what we want to do. Empower through educating.
Check out the other videos to complete your understanding.
Exactly.
@@SprayJones local company to me (Ontario) is quoting $2,500 tax incl for 950sqft basement at 2” thick. Walltite/CM01
Is this a fair price?
@@skyline5354 Yikes! That is super cheap. But I hear that about Ontario SPF guys they all like to give stuff away.
@@SprayJones Other trades too. Brand new 2k sqft home here is wired for under 5k all in. I won't work in Ontario anymore.
Thanks for great information.
I'm building a new garage this year and was going to spray the walls and blow in the attic. After watching your videos I will spray the complete garage now. It just makes sense.
I sprayed my house attic with 4 inches and expected to see the payoff in heat savings in 7 years. I was WRONG. Payoff happened in 4 years. I was worth every penny. Especially if you live in the far north of Ontario Canada. Love how it kept the rodents out also.
Sounds great!
Hey, how much did you pay to spray foam your Attic?
Common sense derived on facts. Awesome job presenting info in all perspectives!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video.. me and my father often talk about diminishing returns.. this is great example of that.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I build custom homes in the Cleveland Ohio area. We use 2x6 walls with Huber Zip sheathing. We focus on getting as close to a ACH50 of 1.0 as possible. In the living spaces over the garage, which most of our buyers finish we use closed cell foam 2” then dense pack the remainder of the roof and floor. We use an unvented roof over the garage which reduces the thermal bridging issues with a knee wall.
We use Zoned HVAC systems and on a 6500 sq ft home (counting 2000 ft of basement finished) we find a single 70,000/80,000 98% variable speed multi state furnace with an ERV and 26 Seer variable AC makes the hole incredibly comfortable and the heating and cooling bills extremely low.
We use an R-10 on the exterior basement foundation walls and we spray 3” of closed cell in all the rim joists. In addition we aeroseal all the duct work and soray 2” closed cell foam on all exposed duct work in the attic areas then cover with R-60 which seems to settle to around R55 after a year.
Our building inspectors require full fill cavities.
Last year we did a full fill open cell foam on a customers home on request. Truthfully that home
Has done very well and has been extremely comfortable also. The issue was waste. The over expansion and shaving of the foam seeds too wasteful.
I’m considering building a double wall home, where we use 2x4 exterior and 2x4 interior wall to stop thermal bridging. I thought I’d try dense pack fiberglass on one home then the next use 3” closed cell and the balance of dense pack fiberglass.
My personal beliefs is a mixture of closed cell with rock wool insulation laying over.
Closed cell gives you structural integrity, air and moisture barrier properties and great insulation values. While the rock wool will give you great insulation values as well for what it is, but I am looking for the amazing sound qualities it offers. A 2x6 wall with approximately 2 inches across the entire house (closed cell) and then filled with 2x4 rock wool. While having 24 inch center stud walls.
Rockwool needs ventilation won't work with foam
@@dillonbledsoe7680 ??? What???
How do you get that? If it’s in a closed wall as all homes are then how is it code compliant?
The thing you have to watch out for is mold growth. I'm going through that right now. If you have a closed cell and then any type of bat insulation it is really difficult to get the bat insulation without any gap between the spray foam. That dead airspace can create mold in a cold environment.
@@snapcrack55 … that’s true… I decided to just use rock wool in my studded walls with two overlapping layers of closed cell boards with reflective aluminum foil attached on the outside exterior walls. House rapped first, foam boards, 3/4” gap for reflective material and then roofing metal to finish it off. Looks just like a farmhouse.
I disagree with the numbers converted to percentage, because it's based off of 0% efficiency being a loss of 558btu/hr. So when you compare that to how much do you save using 3 inches and more vs 2 inches it don't sound like much as a percentage. But when you do the math on BTU's for an actual structure square footage you end up with some big differences. I did some quick math here, 40x72x14 4:12 has about 6624sqft before windows and doors. 2 inches requires 21,358 BTU/hr, 3 inches 15,951 BTU/hr, 4 inches 12,977 BTU/hr, 5 inches 10,273 BTU/hr. So 3 inches is 33% more efficient than 2 inches, 4 inches is 65% more efficient than 2 inches, and 5 inches is 108% more efficient than 2 inches. This should be what the numbers are compared to. And the efficiency comparison in the video doesn't do these real numbers any justice.
I live in SW CO and our county has no code enforcement. I am taking advantage of this to keep my foam costs down. Our house is ICF construction, and I had 2" of 2lb closed cell sprayed on the underside of the shed style roof that extends over a three room bump out on the first level, making the attic of this section conditioned space. In the winter, it stayed "room temp" above the ceiling. This summer, I do see that it is getting warmer, but not enough to be a concern. (Room temp ~75F, attic ~80F, 95F outside in full sun for days, no A/C) Thermal imaging shows that most of this heat comes in through the trusses, not the foam between them. I am going to opt for 2.5" on the main roof, which is rafter style vaulted ceiling using TJI's. Thanks to the TJI's, I should have much less thermal bridging, and 2.5" of foam should keep pretty much all the heat out in the summer. I already know 2" is more than sufficient in the winter. With 2 to 2.5" of closed cell foam, my house is technically WAY under the R-value of most codes, and yet the performance of my conditioned envelope is likely better than I could have achieved with the use of fiber insulation of any kind, particularly considering my TJI rafter vaulted ceiling design, which would be a pain to vent and insulate properly. Very happy with spray foam, we really need codes to start allowing less of it to be used rather than demanding an r-value...
just had 3 inch closed sprayed on the bottom of the roof deck and 2 inch in the walls. the change is unbelievable. im sold on it when i get to renovating the rest of the outer walls i will def have it sprayed
Glad it worked out. Thank you for the testimony.
Really glad you put this information out. Thanks for taking your time to do this.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video...Top shelf information. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
I agree with everything you said! Only way to justifie more foam is if energy cost rise drastically then it may start to make sense but then most likely the foam will cost more too.
Yup.
@O P no, chemical is a big cost most instance it’s the bigger part of the job it used to be 50/50 Labour/chemical. Example i sprayed my shop 36x50x16 2“ walls and ceiling I was ablte to heat it with a wood stove to about 8c with a Osburn 3300 Woodstove only at -30c Manitoba. I added 2“ to a total of 4“ so I can heat it Easier plus I’m a contractor so I do it myself. If I where to hire a contractor I’d say do 3“ ceiling 2-3“walls I think best Bank for the buck as far as the efficiency I feel I need. Now as we see hydro prices sky rocket and Insulation materials I’d consider going more as much as you can as it’s just a matter of time it will pay for itself
2 things you can count on going up for your entire life is energy costs and taxes.
I finally found what I have been looking for. Thanks!
Glad I could help!
👍
The latest energy codes (IECC) just implemented in the USA require a substantial R-value requiring a full 2x6 cavity of closed cell foam for residential construction if you want to avoid paying for continuous exterior insulation as well. Most will probably go with the full cavity of spray foam because of cost. Most will not realize the benefit of preventing thermal bridging with continuous exterior insulation and reducing the amount of cavity wall R-value.
Thank you for being honest and saving money
Chris Grider:
How are you venting that attic space?? I didn't see any baffles before spraying, how does excess moisture escape? How do you know if you have a roof leak? Would this cause the roof sheeting to rot?
SPF attics do not need to be vented. Watch the 4 part series on non vented roofs to learn more.
Great video. Question: My rafters are 2 x 10. If I spray 3" then what happens with the remaining 6.5" of cavity space? Wouldn't condensation be an issue between the drywall and the closed cell foam? If I place batt insulation in the remaining cavity wouldn't that also be susceptible to condensation?
No there will not be condensation. The cavity is deep than needed, you have to renew your mind to how well SPF works.
No air through the foam, you are buying a shot of whiskey not a pint of beer.
I did 7 & 8" of closed cell on the roof deck. Percentages are deceiving. So in my case 3000sq./ft That's about 3700BTU's of heat per hour which is about 10M BTU's per season. This enabled me to downsize the overall heating system nearly paying for the upgrade Plus the savings every year.
Thanks for the great information!!! Just had a guy tell me I needed 6 inches on the roof of my steel building! With this information I will go with 3 inches! And go with a different company! Wish you guys where in Arizona!
Glad I could help!
Watched more, love the detail on heat loss and spray foam efficiency!! Good job
Glad you liked it!
I see you respond to soo many comments. I am in Zone 3 (atlanta ga) and some installers are saying do 3 inches and some are saying 4 inches of closed cell on a new build. The 2 that are saying do 4 inches are saying it will encapsulate the roof truss and reduce thermal bridging. Just not sure which to do.
I like the 4" for those reasons. A 3.5" top cord allows for 4" to go over it nice. We never build a ridge of SPF directly over the cord, instead just allow the SPF to crest over it and keep it imbedded.
Good info. When I'm ready to build in 5 or so years i plan on 2x6 framing, or bigger, 2in closed cell and then rockwool, and exterior insulation for thermal break. Going for a passive house rating in northern MI.
Ok
2-3 inches is all you would need, dont spend the extra on inferior insulation.
The Rockwool would help reduce sound the transfers through the closed cell foam if you are in a noisy area. You do get thermal bridging through the studs yet so exterior insulation is a good plan if it breaths like the Rockwool product. 2 inches isn’t enough by itself. You will see a substantial difference through a thermal imaging camera from 2-3 inches. I usually recommend 3 sometimes 4 inches and being done with it unless it’s in a noisy environment. Then there are other requirements needing to be met. I’ve even done a handful of 5 inch applications on roofs over the years. Back when foam was cheap anyway. Now it’s about double the price from 1.5 years ago.
Another great video -- Thanks for your knowledge share!
Glad it was helpful!
I have 24 foot high ceilings in my shop and the walls are built 90" on center 6x6 beams. The added bonus i could see with having thicker spray foam walls is better shear force when its windy.
You get a tremendous amount of shear force out of 3 inches of closed cell already. Your building is never going to fail from shear forces at 3 inches so why go over that?
Agreed.
Great content...as always. Thank you Mike!
Love your videos. I've learned a lot. The information will definitely be helpful when building my soon to be next home. Thank you from the lower 48.
Awesome! Thank you!
4 part series coming out next week on Roofs and SPF. Everything you want to know and maybe more.
At theses lumber prices?
I was thinking about offering a guy a sheet of 3/4" plywood and 4 2x4s for his Harley.
Idk, I might be getting ripped off..
Your videos make me want to start a spray foam business. Thank you for the amazing content!!
Beware, that has been tried only to be followed with much regret...
But I get what you are saying, inspiration is found in excellence.
Gosh I just love your videos. Well done! Clear delivery of info!
Glad you like them!
Very good explanation. Accuracy matters!
Glad it was helpful!
So nice! You do excellent work -- QUESTION -- We love the look of concrete, especially in the cottage we are planning, an exposed concrete wall in the basement. Can we spray on the exterior (below grade), with enough insulation to keep the interior surface of the concrete at room temperture during winter (3 inches??)? We want to see the interior concrete but we don't want a huge cold surface during winter. Temperture can hit -25 C during the worst of winter.
Please watch the videos in the playlist "in contact with ground" to bring you up to speed.
Not to mention the air seal with spray foam not achieved with fiberglass or rockwool insulation and some people will argue that a plastic sheet will achieve that, which it will not.
There’s some proper application, multi pass, staying off the studs!! Good job boys!!
Thanks
This was very helpful. I have a 12×20 cabin with 2×6 walls. I have a wood stove for heat and winter cooking. Completely off grid (no electricity). I have been hesitant about spraying, just because I really didn't know how much, really how little I needed to be efficient with my wood burning. I believe, according to your explanation, that I really only need the 2" level of spray. I'm using plank walls, so there is a going to be an air gap between the spray and interior wall. Should I still put a vapor barrier behind the wall boards, or is that overkill?
Honestly watch more of the vids. All these questions are answered here including the vapor barrier one.
I would say "no" as the spray foam give you both a thermal break and an air break, per Mike Holmes on his show. Spraying 2" of foam also means you are not burying your electrical wires in the foam. You can have the wires proud of the foam, for the most part, which makes any remodeling down the road a lot easier. Even if you are off-grid, who is to say you won't want to throw up a solar panel and a couple batteries and at least have some LED lights?
Wow, thanks, very educational and informing, thanks, stay blessed
My pleasure
Thank you !!
I have watched many of your videos. Spray Foam is where it's at! Great information. But - how does one put it into practical use? I am building a small, 1000 sq, modified cape in southern MA. Code requires (ZONE 5) an R 30 wall value. How do I convince a building inspector that I only need 2 inches of closed cell? Ceiling are an R60!!!! I'm not sure what a cathedral ceiling requires but that's what we're constructing..
You cannot. You need to have a consultant write your specs that has the ability to seal the design.
Yes 😂 we have to spray 7" of sprayfoam for ceilings/roofs in Virginia. I tell people you have a yeti cooler by the time we are done. Our estimates are in the 40k range because of the requirements of "R-value"
That needs changing.
@@SprayJones yes it would cut costs significantly. To bad the fiberglass manufacturers got the market cornered
Man if I could get a true and even R value of closed cell spray foam that also added total vapor control and draft control that would make up for soooo much. Even with my 1976 2x4 frame home.
This is great information. Would the same percentages in your chart be the same for a ceiling?
If you have closed cell foam installed on your attic roof and later get new shingles installed, what can be done with all the new nails? Sometimes the nails they use are way too long. This could extend through the foam or decrease the insulation value. What can/should be done with new shingles if you have solid foam?
If you have already answered this I apologize for the same question. I haven't gone through all of the comments yet.
Very informative videos. Thanks.
This is really important for the 2nd floor ceiling, (no real attic just the space from the 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 or whatever is used for your roof) . How can you fix this without removing the drywall? Thanks.
Don't be an idiot and install the Wrong thing!
Just install the shingles. We have had home loose shingles in wind storms and they just put them on.
Question: What do you do about all the new nail holes in the sheathing?
Regarding ASTM C-236 and building codes. My problem with the test specifically, and insulation codes generally, is that they don’t take into account things like thermal bridging, or thermal mass. If you take traditional framing with 2” of closed cell sprayed into stud bays you still get a lot of heat loss because the 3” of exposed R-1 stud is acting like a highway bringing in cold. Flash and batt remains popular because it protects the 3” of exposed stud. The best answer seems to be putting your insulation on the exterior.
Hello Jack, good to see you again!
I am going to do a video on insulation, thermal bridging and methods. Because there are a lot of miss conceptions as to what is a problem. The foam burning video is a prime example. Some things just need to be seen to be understood.
I can’t wait! The video where you describe exactly why you can see condensation outlining the trusses through the shingles, regardless of how much insulation is on the back was extremely enlightening.
@@jackjmaheriii I have an even better one coming showing snow melt in the middle of winter for a spray foam roof. All the heat is from the sun and NOT inside.
I am kicking the info into high gear. 2021 will be a major year for info. 2022 will be the podcast for sprayers.
@@jackjmaheriii Which video are you referencing about the "condensation outlining the trusses"? Thanks
@@mnelson996 The video is called “spray foam insulation causes frost lines on the roof.” It’s from two years ago and it’s kind of a fun video because it has a mystery theme.
I love the BTU retention charts. Do you have the equivalent charts for any other types of insulation? I'd be curious to see how they compare head to head in this test, seeing how the r-value test is tilted so heavily in their favor.
Go watch the R value Myth video...
Hello, great video as you explain thoroughly, I have a question have you ever sprayed closed cell in an area and then sprayed open cell on top of closed cell as that would fill full 2x6 wall but it may be an experiment to make a video on.
We do not do that. Yes a video needs to be done about that for sure. So subscribe and watch it will be coming out.
Good information
Thanks
Great information
Question, for the additional inches above 2 inches, don’t you need to stop and allow the first 2 inches to cure to prevent offgassing going on for all eternity by applying it to thickly? Thus you now have an additional labor cost as well as an additional material cost.
Yes. But the chemistry is changing to allow for 4 & 5 inches in 1 pass.
Watch tomorrow's Toxic SPF video to learn more about your question.
Well that’s good because some hack installers have made people’s homes unlivable in years past by globing it on.
Good honest information. I might add that you also have to take into account Dew Point to prevent condensation from forming on the interior. Min: 2" exterior walls (except basement walls) and Min: 3" on roof decks. Anything less you risk of severe condensation buildup inside the building envelope particularly when its really cold outside. Not a good situation when covered by drywall. Great videos btw.
Scott that is not true at all. Where are you getting this from?
We are in Canada all our jobs have to go through extreme cold. I have never seen condensation on 1.5 inches of closed cell. Even at an inch the thermals are good enough to stop condensing.
We live this stuff.
Easy Spray Jones. Just because you post a couple videos doesn't mean you have all the answers. Where are you getting your information? I've been spraying foam for 15 years in the Northeast so I myself have a very solid understanding of what works and what doesn't. If the thermal dynamics in Canada are different from the rest of the world then by all means keep spraying 1.5 inches! Good luck!
@@scottgray1535 You claimed minimums in your comment. What reference is that? There is none.... for 2 reasons.
You question my tech references....go watch the vapour barrier video, it is all there.
I have detailed the physics of condensation many times.
@@SprayJones keep spraying 1.5" then. You have all the answers. Good luck...SMH
@@scottgray1535 Thanks for watching Scott.
Do you have comparable efficiency charts to compare “reduction in heat loss” compared to fiberglass and other common insulation types?
Is there a threat of condensation on the drywall back if a cavity is not filled
No
very helpful!
thank you for all the info. great videos. question. i am adding a shed roof 4 season room to the side of my house. It will be built off the ground on cement piers. since the floor deck will only be 1 foot from ground, to seal the bottom of the floor, i plan to install cdx treated plywood between the floor joists . The 4/12 shed roof will sit on the current home shingled roof . Since it will be a cathedral roof. concern is proper ventalation. i was planning on useing fiberglass bats, but after watching your videos thinking i should use closed cell in the entire room.
Combining old with new can be tricky. You need to have enough room to spray the foam, that is #1. Then you have to divide the two so that cold vented roof will not affect the SPF section.
You've touched on this before that it can be a big problem if you can't get to the space needing foam .I totally agree you could indeed miss important structure that needs to be sprayed to complete the seal and that is so important. But here's my question how would you do it with any other products it's even more impossible to properly seal so I'm thinking is you can't foam it likely you cant do anything else either
For spray thickness..what about a wine cellar? Would it be worth those few extra percentages to fill the entire cavity of 2x4 and 2x6 wall? Should closed cell be used for a wine cellar?
All the data applies for Vino.
@@SprayJones OK. Closed or open celll?
@@velocityacoustics Spray Jones will ALWAYS go with closed cell if there is a choice. It has all the benefits: very high insulation value, moisture barrier, rigid. The open cell is no moisture barrier until it get a certain thickness and that is not keeping the moisture out. It is just holding it in the spaces between the little balls. And not nearly as rigid.
Do 2 inches and then go over the studs with Aluminum Double Bubble. Then tape everything off. The ADB reflects 98% of heat back into the room or out of the house in the summer. This thing of building 1 foot walls and stuffing them with whatever is craziness. Why not do ICF then. Much More Cost effective and a much warmer house. and Storm and Tornado proof.
How is spray foam thickness measured? Is it like 2 inches equals inch and a half as in you would measure lumber or should it be 2 inches equals 2 inches?
Measured with a probe. Nominal thickness is 1/4" low to 1/4" high.
Very useful info thanks
Glad it was helpful!
One major issue... you can spray 2" in a roof and realize efficiency, but that leaves a huge surface area of exposed rafter on the interior that takes in all that heat, and sends it directly to the roof causing a ton of ice. My spray guy swears all you need is 2". I agree if youre spraying a continuous surface. But you need to be careful of pushing 2" when there is a situation of excessive thermal bridging
You better go watch my thermal bridging video. And you need to re-think the R value test all together. The lumber is no where near as bad as you think.
Time to un-learn some things that just aren't what we are told they are.
Finally we are in Canada and have sprayed an enormous amount of projects with 2 inches. We would know if any one would how bad it really is or isn't.
@@SprayJones ill tell you what... great videos for the most part... however, heat transfer/absorption is a factor of surface area. While emissivity may be a factor in transferring stored heat back to atomisphere, rafters that are exposed to heat on 80% of thier surface on the interior are absorbing, and releasing a lot of energy into that roof surface. The fields between rafters may be diminishing returns after 2", but the heat sinks on both sides of that field melt snow within a day here where I am in zone 6. I sprayed 2" on my roof so I could heat it and work on it all winter. I was mortified, and as an engineer with a very good understanding of that math you skip over... I urge you to do more research.
@@SprayJones let me know if you would be open to an email conversation. I'd love to show you some photos, and have a good conversation. You do great work.
Send me an email via the web site.
I am wanting to do a test structure to get some better data for all of us to look at. I am also chatting with BASF engineering group.
I am open to seeing where the data will lead us.
@@SprayJones Interesting convrersation and a good natured debate. Curious if the follow up exchange led to any consensus.
Even the eskimos are building igloos with 3” blocks of pressed snow
My question is what thickness of 2 lb closed cell spray foam gives you a vapor barrier on inside walls? I want to flash and batt with rock wool. How much CC foam will I need to put on the rim joists to ensure that water vapor that moves through the rock wool will not condense on the inside surface of the foam in winter time? Obviously the foam has to be thick enough to lower the dewpoint at the inside surface so vapor does not condense.
Would it make a difference if you put an air space between the first two inches and a second two inches of spray foam
No.
What’s a better option doing 3 inch spray foam or doing 2” with 1 1/2 batts im trying to get good r value but also help with acoustics as I live on busy street. Same question goes for ceiling in basement should I do batts, open cell foam, or both basement ceiling is strictly for acoustics, and what do you suggest in attic ceiling because I hear blow in drops down to r4 in -25. Great video btw
Hello, love your content. Quick question…what causes ridge rot? A local high end builder at my church says to put in a ridge vent and space down between rafters and then seal it all off with spray foam. This allows moisture to be pushed up to the ridge and out without affecting the air barrier. Thoughts?
You are mixing up insulating methods. Ridge rot is something to do with humid attics that have ventilation problems.
SPF uses a non-vented attic. Watch the 4 part series on non-vented roof. I have a dedicated playlist for the vaulted ceilings and SPF.
@@SprayJones thanks for replying. I was just told by a local contractor to be careful when going to SPF due to new found cases of ridge rot when sealing up an attic, or in my case the second floor rafters. My research disagreed and that is why I came to you for an answer. I will rewatch that series of videos. Gotta make sure this is done right. Thanks again.
This is VERY helpful. If I'm in northern Wisconsin and want to insulate my attic floor how many inches of closed cell foam + insulation would you recommend? Or would you go with 2 inches of closed cell and call it a day?
You better watch the spraying down to drywall video first. It is in the vaulted roof playlist.
I'm in Laredo, TX, high heat, humidity, I'm considering switching from my current build plan of open cell to closed cell. Would you think that's a better option? Spraying the attic space under a metal roof and the walls. Interior walls would be open cell just for noise.
Thanks and I appreciate all of the information you've shared with us.
2 lb foam is the king, has been and always will be. That is 99% of what we do.
Get it installed correct and you will have it for generations.
In Texas where you have your vapor barrier on the exterior of the building and dry to the inside, open cell is king. It’s cheaper and you can pile it on to stop heat flow.
Bravo! Just finished a deep dive of your vids. We will be using ccSPF in our home. Insulator quoted 3" for code R-21 on the Rims, Walls, and Roof. Question about the roof foam; can we put rockwool in the bays after the foam (Flash and batt I think it's called) to get a better result?
No!
Watch the flash and batt videos. You do not need it once the foam is there.
We're going through that issue right now. We had an inch and a half spray foam on our vaulted ceiling and then fiberglass bats over that. The problem is you can't get the fiberglass tight enough to the spray foam and then you get mold growth in that dead air space
Thanks for this video....should help us optimize the investment in thermal protection. One question still....what is the minimum waiting time between layers? The company I'm considering to contract for such a job, is using close cell PU foam from Huntsman (DALTOTHERM® TSA30-00), and in the technical specification sheet, it says that for more than 12cm foam, there should be a 12 hours waiting time between the layers, but it doesn't specify what should be the waiting time for less than 12cm. I was considering to apply 15cm of foam, but still in one day. Many thanks in advance.
The answer is "I don't know". Because I would consult the data sheet, or call the rep.
We use Demilec and it can take 100mm (4 inches) in 2 passes with no waiting between them.
The technology in the chemistry is rapidly changing and improving, so you have to ask those who make it.
@@SprayJones thanks. This one can take up to 40mm per pass. I will try to get a feedback from the manufacturer
@@MrSavage77 Maybe a typo? 40mm = a little over 15 inches. but 4 mm = 1.5 inches.
Very helpful video. Do you have a link to the source for the chart? That would be very helpful.
Nice video, I was planning to install an r20 on my basement walls, but now I feel comfortable with r12. I have an attached garage with 2 bedrooms on top of that, my contractor told me that he can spray 5" over the garage drywall, but it would be better to tear down and spray on the garage ceiling, does it make sense? Right now I have an r20 pink insulation, I will have to install new drywall on top of the spray foam.
This video is great!
One question: Can a person spray foam the roof on an attic that is vented and unconditioned. Would that 2” inch or so of foam act as (or replace) a “Radiant Barrier”? (The radiant barrier being that think aluminum foil looking stuff).
Better watch the video on going into an enclosed attic to spray. You can find it in the "how not to get cheated" playlist. It is called spraying down onto drywall, should this be done.
Does the application of closed cell spray foam ever melt wires? What temperature does the foam normally reach when it’s first applied and curing? My builder is putting spray foam in our remodeled house and I’m concerned it will melt cables, but I heard that’s pretty unlikely
Foam will not melt wires if: you have good quality wiring, the foam is installed according to the design parameters.
@@SprayJones Thank you!
Question: Any Idea if double walled 2x4 construction, with a minimal foam thickness (say 1inch in the inside wall and 1” on the outer wall) separated buy an air gap of ( 2.5” between layers) would deliver better insulation results than a single layer of 2” thickness?
Too hard to say.
Construction needs to be practical for whatever solution we bring.
@@SprayJones double wall construction is being heavily promoted. All over YT, but never using foam for insulation.
@@4pharaoh Oh, yah.
Well let's see if I can come up with some mind blowing data soon for studs.
What about allergic reactions if the contractor doesn't mix it correctly.
I know today there is no formaldehyde in the new stuff
I have watched 60 minutes where people in Georgia had to remove there entire roofs because the foam making them all sick.
Is the stuff that's at the home depot in 2 cylinders safe I think its from tiger ?
Go check out the health and safety playlist. Your questions are answered in there.
Sub, I have a video dropping next week that will answer stinking foam right off at the beginning.
You should definitely check out more of these videos. For some reason I was thinking that the reason it was making people sick was because the used open cell against the roof and it drew moisture. When this happens mold is a very bad issue. Closed cell won't absorb water because there are no "open air cells" for water to permeate.
How much sound deadening Do you achieve the thicker you go? Any published calculations?
No data on closed cell. Open has that.
Watching this video again why at 6:50 is there piece of poly there like if you were insulating with fibreglass and having a continuous vapour barrier?
Jobs are switched over from batt to SPF.
Thanks Mr @SprayJones! Why do some areas like mine (Nova Scotia) ask for r24 value in the walls (5 inches of foam) when an r13 of foam will do? Should a homeowner build to code?
Code is written for fibrous, but at this time there is no designation for batts vs SPF on white paper. Unless you are not having new code enforced.... then you can do what physics and your wallet says.
Thank you so much for all that data... data-data ..data-ta data.....Sprayfoam man to the Rvalue rescue!!! (Sorry it's late and I've been watching spray foam videos for a couple hours.
I've been building for quite some time, and expanding in some ways like ICF variations - and I'm looking into spray foam.
The current remodel i'm thinking of using it on is a home built in the 1950s. I'm thinking of vaulting the existing ceilings, the roof is a low pitch, it's in So Cal so it doesn't need a steep one for snow and ice. The rafters are 2x4s, which have no depth - so this will work great, I am still not sure of at 2 - 2.5" thick what will the "R-value" be?
Any tips are welcome. 😁👍
That being said, what will the weight be like, say in a standard 16" o/c chamber wide 10'x10' area?
I'm not sure how to calculate that or present it to an engineer, unless they are familiar with doing roofs with the spray foam.
Would the 2x4's need to be beefed up / sistered on - with a 2x6?
🤔🤔 - totally open to thoughts / ideas?
And great video. Seriously thanks for the specs and another person giving info on CZcams spoke of you and how you are one of the 'Obi-Wans' of spray foam.... Keep it up, the Grasshoppers are listening. 😁😂😆.... (I warned its late....)
Closed cell SPF weighs 2lbs per cubic foot or .166 lbs per board foot. A board foot is 12" x 12" x 1".
@@SprayJones hello there. 👍
Thank you so much for the response. Ok so just under 2lbs. 🤔
Interesting. I’ll have to give some thought to sistering on 2x6s for some added strength. Just for long term peace of mind. And it will add further space from the foam to the drywall so no shaving, and a gap for an insulation barrier….
🤔
Again thanks for the info and the good videos. I’m thinking of using the ‘Froth-Pak’. There just doesn’t seem to be companies in my area offering it. I talked to a manufacture rep in AZ a month ago and he was going to send my info to a couple companies…. An hour away, over a month ago. I think they passed 🤔😆
Have a good one sir. 👍👍
@@Jonacarpenter Froth paks are hard to get right for large jobs. You really need a pro. Keep looking you should be able to find them. 1 hour away is not that bad we travel that all the time.
Do this right, once or not at all.
@@SprayJones oh I agree with you. I’ve been a GC for over 20 years. I haven’t ruled out hiring a sub. And I haven’t finished my investigating / learning all I can. And it’s a small job, not the whole house. That’s why that pack caught my eye. And one of the videos on it was quite detailed. I’m still searching. 😉👍
Great Video. In order to spray 3" of closed cell is has to be done in 2 passes? At separate times? How far apart in time?
Thanks
Standard chemistry yes. 2 inches max intervals vary based on suppliers. Some are 15 min - 60 min.
High build SPF now can do 5 inches at one time.
As someone looking to build and hoping to use spray foam, this was very helpful and informative. Thank you! Are there any good ways to weed out bad companies when looking for a contractor? I watched your video on what is a bad spray job, but I'd like to know if they're worthwhile beforehand, and want to make sure they're not scamming me with someone else's work. Any tips to detect a scammer? Certain questions that should get a certain answer, sort of thing? Obviously, there is no perfect way to tell short of going to an active job site to see them in action, but that's not always possible.
Yes, we have multiple videos. I will create a playlist for that. Go check back on the channel for it.
@@SprayJones Ahh, just had to look a bit deeper, apparently... the playlist helped, thank you!
I thought it was against the law to use freon and spray it into the atmosphere as it ruins the ozone layer ...........please advise .......
I am planning to insulate my basement walls with spray foam, but I have huge stairs in of the walls, making it hard to insulate the area and rim joints, will that influence my air seal and insulation performance? I can only insulate on 3/1-2 walls.
I usually do 2 inches on concrete and 3 inches in the rim joist. You won’t be able to spray behind the stairs if you have finished Sheetrock already on there. While it’s best to have it all done, it won’t make a substantial difference if it’s just a really small area.
What about roof leaks if you have spray foam on attic ceiling?
I have 2x4 framing on my basement walls, does it make sense to remove the framing before applying the insulation? I am concerned that there is not enough space to install 2" of spray foam behind the studs, in some places I only have a 1" gap between the wall and stud.
Leave it. Not worth the messing around for the inch. Have done lots like that no one moves them out.
@@SprayJones thanks for the answer
@@brunomourasilva6247 the 1 inch gap is great. It gives you a thermal and moisture break from the concrete wall and studs.
Question. Is there an advantage to 1" of closed cell followed with 3" of open cell? As opposed to only 2" of closed cell? Some installers are recommending this application mainly due to cost of material. THANKS!
Pick one product.
How well does this keep the sun’s heat from penetrating a cathedral ceiling? My spray foam contractor recommended 3.5”.
Fine. I have no objections to that.
Hello there, what kind of product do you use and what are the temperatures that your guys normally use?
The product is Walltite by BASF sold in Canada.
The rest I can't tell you..... Goldilocks!
Thank you for showing the chart of Insulation values per 1" of PUFoam. I had not seen that before. I have long thought that the maximum benefit was that first 1" and all additional depth benefits was fractional by comparison.
All property Insulation has to be applied with a modicum of common sense.. Having 2' of insulation on all walls but having a window wide open makes that all pointless..
When I first became aware of spray foam Insulation (25 yrs +..) the tendency was to inject enclosed voids rather than open spraying.. I always preferred the cleaner appearance and full bonding benefits of injection..
It seems that open spraying is mainly for the benefit of the installers..? Is that fair..?
Thanks for the feedback
Back then - speaking from the mid-1970s forward in Minnesota, foam insulation was mostly for retrofit installation, thus injected into closed stud bays -- along with pushing the interior wall covering, plaster or drywall, off the studs when too much foam was injected. Open spraying was for commercial projects. Spray foam for residential installation with open spraying has been something from about the mid-1990s forward. At least in my experience in Southern California.
This is now a mature industry and all these data sheets presented here, as he pointed out, are from the early 2000's when they were trying to get standard residential codes to accept spray foam. 20 some years later, as you can see, the building codes still treat it like glass fiber or cellulose insulation: more is more without regard to the cost/benefit equation.
@@ricoludovici2825
Here in the UK, injected foam early use was mainly retro-fit in older cavity wall properties with 2 skins of brick with a 4" air gap so was strong enough not to blow but had the added benefit of bonding everything together and generally strengthening the Property which was what really appealed to me as a Builder.
Until they discovered that the quality of the foam was not very good and ended up as brown dust.
Your point about blowing plasterboard seems more about not doing the job correctly.
I was at a Trade show recently and got talking with the Spray foam guys and even they admitted that there was no measureable benefit over 4" Thick.. and that above that was just a waste of material.
I started looking into how Home Insurance views plastic Foams (Not mineral wool..) and they view it as combustable.. Sustainable vs Insureable..
So.. 'More is better' should be replaced with 'optimum' or 'Enough is Enough' as a standpoint. IMHO..
@@Mole-Skin It's a mature industry now. Back then it was everyone for themselves. In fact, the original Rapco foam was urea formaldehyde. You know, urine and formaldehyde. It stunk and was uncontrollable in small spaces.
Where I lived, the blown=in "cellulose" insulation was made from ground and treated newspapers. At one point, they were making it so fast you could ascutally see the printing on the shreds and they left out the boric acid flame retardant. The failure was settling in closed spaces and soaking up water in attrcs to where the ceiling fell off the joisting.
I know about how UK insurers won't insure foamed houses. But they have no problem with, ohhh, WOOD. And electrical materials. Here in the US, certain practices in electrical installations are banned by code on one side of the street and allowed on the other side if it is a different town.
All part of the game. Best is the enemy of better in so many cases.
So, basically when people put bat over closed cell they're doing it to get an r value higher so they pass inspection by someone who has more clue that this could cause the bat to be damp. Just me thinking here but if that's done, wouldn't you get a, idk how to put it, maybe a few point where the one temperature meets the other? Just a farm guy here but it seems like the bat wouldn't ever get vented. I'd probably be better off just telling the guy to hit it with 2in and then sheet rock it. Am I right or wrong.
I have a video on flash and batt, but I will be doing a new one where I go over how stupid a batt in front of the foam is. Back up with science of course.
Hey mike
Great video… i just had my home sprayed from the exterior and the contractor that did the work sprayed closed cell 2lb 3 inches thick.. it looked like they were doing it in 2 passes. However I do have a question.
In areas where they sprayed too much they had to shave off areas and the foam on the inside is a different colour and not purple it also has little bubbles almost like thousands of little air pocket bubbles… comparable to a chocolate aero bar but smaller pockets… it feels dense but not as super dense as the foam shell on the outside is this normal?
Normal. Is there any issues with your insulation ?
Great video. My only question as I have seen your video on the roof and closed cell. I am in TN in the USA. As the architect plan on your closed cell foam roof plan specified 4" inches under the deck. Would you suggest that as well? I plan on doing 2" under my slab, 2" on the walls, 2" on my ceiling under my conditioned attic space. But am confused on how thick I should go on the roof deck, which will be zip, shark skin and then shingles. Not really sure. I am not really under any code or forced codes at this time. So just looking for some solid advice on what you would suggest in that scenario in this instant. As I do not have to conform to any codes or restriction. I mean will 2" be good on roof deck or should I request more? Thanks
3" or 4" will be fine if compliant with you regs.
How do we get those that are doing plan reviews to get away from R-Values and to thermal efficiency?
With much planning and tactical clout. This is a rigged game against us.
I live in Florida and looking for the code for closed cell spray foam
Is there a risk of mold forming on the drywall if there is a gap to the outside sheathing
No
Good work, you guys seem very knowledgeable. With so many fly by nighters and cowboys out there do you happen to have any referrals for a spray company in Ontario, I’m looking to do my attic.
Talk with BASF in Toronto and they will get you in touch with certified people around you.
@@SprayJones thx
After you spray 1" of closed cell foam , how much does it expand ?
Under ideal conditions expansion for 2 lb foam is x25 the liquid mass.
Shouldn't it be cubic feet not square feet?
No, we apply a certain thickness over a determined area. It is called a board foot. Similar to how drywall is discussed.
Do they have that same test for open cell versus closed cell?
So does this mean that if you took 2x of the same exact jobs in the same place right next to eachother and had thermal imaging to compare them we could basically see with our own two eyes this tapering of results youve shown us, this could essentially be seen visually in the form of there being almost no colour variations in the image when comparing 2" to 3"?? Correct?
My understanding is that the imaging is basically showing us a visual representation of the science and maths we barely comprehend so when factoring in all variables and the air seal foam provides we should in theory see almost no difference on the screen for every inch we go past 2"??? Or am I missing something??
I agree with all of that. I am going to have to get data for this. I spoke with an engineer, all their data goes to the math on paper. So I asked him point blank: if the wall with studs pulls the R value down say 15% will I see a 15% change in that same building's consumption once I remove the studs from the equation? His answer: I don't know!! So I said if the actual field results do not bare the out the same percentages, then the math is wrong! He agreed that it would be.
I swear I am on to something here that needs more data.
What would be the point of 2x6 framing if you only spray 2"? may as well build with 2x4s?
Correct.
@@SprayJones I can frame 24" OC with 2x6, that would increase the coverage of the foam and decrease thermal bridging, right? With 2x4s, I would have to frame 16" OC
@@ThePotatusMan Thermal bridging with wood studs is no where near what ppl think it is. I plan to do a test shack to prove this.
@@SprayJones Love your videos. Did you ever do the test shack? You have so many videos, not sure what it may be called. Thanks