The Ledge Slip Macro (LSM) - Universal Ultimate Tech
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- Day 4 of Techmas is here! In Smash Ultimate, we've developed different methods of Ledge slips in order to hug the stage over time. Then wwww.youtube.c... released the strongest method with crouch in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I've optimized this with what I call the "The Ledge Slip Macro". This works in Smash Melee too! Apologies the Super Smash Bros. Melee section wasn't more fleshed out, had issues with my capture
Main Edit by Elcrest from @SmashUniversity (SUB TO THEM)
Final Edit by GimR
French Subtitles by iPove: / ipove_ssbu
Japanese Subtitles by Sean From School: / schoolfromsean
Corrections:
- none so far
► Twitter: / vgbc_gimr
► Twitch: / gimr
► Instagram: / vgbc_gimr
UH OH BACK TO THE LAB AGAIN!
Chapters:
00:00 - Buy my Merch ty
01:08 - Sub to Smash U!
01:20 - Tech Preview
03:43 - :Ledge / Platform Issues
04:02 - Ledge Slip Solutions
04:38 - Sub to @JforJonas!
04:52 - The 2 Frame Macro
05:53 - The 2 Frame Run Skid Macro
06:22 - The Ledge Slip Macro
08:21 - Waiting / Reacting
08:26 - ↗ Walk Method
08:36 - Larger 2 Frame Window
08:48 - Slingshot Fast Fall Method
09:12 - Flick Shot Ledge Trump
09:18 - Insta-Landing Aerials
09:38 - Ice Climbers Teeter Slingshot desync
09:58 - Rosalina desync
10:11 - Character Specific Examples
11:19 - Z-Drop Items
12:38 - Diddy Kong's BROKEN Banana setup
13:13 - LSM in Melee!
14:15 - Turn on Notifications ty!
#SuperSmashBros #SmashUltimate #Ultimate
Thanks for watching, Sub to J for Jonas (Click his name in the title)! Get ya merch here: spif.space/gimr
Thanks a lot for the shout-out, and I love the clean editing and presentation of the tech!
Ganon is even worse after this one
😢
Sadge
His recovery though...
@@BobbyFischer0000maybe he meant that Ganon can now be edge-guarded even worse (better?) now.
@@DogusAmbrosiusnot that he made it back anyway
this is actually one of the most useful techs ive seen in a while
No Foxes were harmed in the making of this video.
Also, since this tech can be performed in Melee, I am assuming this tech works in Brawl and SSB4 as well?
Probably!
Probably wasn’t tested because melee and ult are the only smash games that aren’t dead :(
i specifically remember mario, luigi, peach, and pikachu could use this (or a very similar) tech to perform "grounded" back airs similar to 3:34 in Smash 4
@@thebigdug Luigi definitely can do it in smash 4. I remember doing this and I had no idea
@@ryan_raus Nah. I'm going to single-handedly bring back brawl.
As an edgeguard enthusiast this is my favourite day of techmas so far.
Fatality incorporates this a lot with Falcon and gets good mileage out of it in skme match ups. Taught a guy at my local this tech right before he fought palu who gets destroyed with this tech if you don't mix up your recovery well. Picked it up quick considering its really easy to implement and netted a stock with it. Definitely allows for a lot more innovation on edgeguard flow charting.
Who?
@@meandyou9726idk bro, a random Pichu I warmed up with. I'm a rando 2-2er that stopped playing years ago. I just like tech and understand the game mechanics well so here I am.
Fatality, best Falcon player@@meandyou9726
This tech is probably really good against Sonic since most Sonic (Including Sonix) like to ride next to the stage with spring jump so this could start forcing Sonic mains to recover high
Not only, probably it can cover the spinshots to
Counterplay for sonic 👀
It's ok maybe but not game changing. The issue with Sonic is that his up b is unreactable as well as having a huge amount of timing mixups. He grabs ledge frame 18 of his up b and that's pretty much the limit of reacting with a frame 1 option in ult which this isn't, it's more like frame 8 at earliest.
Will be useful for Sonic though considering how fast he can get to ledge and how often he sends opponents off-stage. Sonix has already been applying the old method before and with this being consistent expect his edgeguarding to improve even more.
@@rizvan1632 I don't think Sonic up special being unreactable matter in a situation where Sonic is under the ledge, he has only one way to go up so timing doesn't matter as long as your move lingers long enough
@DiazoContent it matters because if you are doing it pre-emptively Sonic can just hit you or even kill you for it from under ledge
I feel like this isn't new tech, but it's for sure not utilized enough. At least gimms is out here showing the community how to do it.
This has been around for years, but it wasn't well known and no one really used it. It was mostly discussed on an old Twitter thread that has been lost to time.
@evanshaner991 so far the only one I hadn't recognized was yesterday's, but I'm here for the community learning new tech to them. It's the evolution of a dying game that has a chance to revitalize it and have us all fall in love again.
A lot of tech just not being utilized appears to be a huge problem with this game. Feels like a lot of tech in this game just gets passed off as "it's impractical," "it's too difficult," "what's the point," etc. Very glad Gimr makes an effort to make this stuff more known
@maskedking3 agreed. I think some of it is a bit erroneous, but there are some completely under utilized options that have practical applications all the time. This one is great for that 11 million and under elite smash crowd that needs a leg up, but once you get to people who mixup their recoveries, it's a bit impractical
Every gimr tech (ultimate)
Thanks so much mr. gimmy
I just want to say that I've been messing around with this, and I learned that any character with a crawl doesn't have to set this up with a foxtrot to the ledge. You can just crawl to the ledge and hit the full side input whenever you want to fall off and it just works
After some experimenting, you can do this off of an aerial gun dash with joker as well. Both on platform and off ledge.
The banana throw is insane its giving me hope ❤
It really is crazy, I'm glad it's a 1 frame link LOL
anyone else weirded out that link didnt recover after throwing the bomb
also thanks GimR
Lol yes! I’m left in limbo
Spaghetti fingers
Knowing it's an interpolated animation makes so much sense now
Interesting that this has applications in melee too, because the tech as a whole feels very reminiscent of melee-style edgeguarding. In melee, you often grab the ledge to edgeguard, letting you easily cover this area beneath the stage. But in ultimate, recovering low is way more powerful, so we tend to see ledge trapping to deal with this option instead. Being able to readily access this region of the stage could completely transform edgeguarding in ultimate.
Thanks you for all of these wonderful tech videos! I can't wait to see what comes next, we have 8 days left!
ledge trump into Desync Nana down B seems like incredible ledge option coverage for the ICs
Tweek eating good after this one
ready for all of the gimr vidoes this month you make great content that progresses the meta an that takes a lot!
Dk mains gon have fun whit this
This one is definitely gonna take some practice
Light might be shaking in his boots with this one
Brilliant work around!!!
I wish this had been broadcast in 2018!
I'm using Sora and I haven't found a good use for this tech specifically, but it lead me to try doing an aerial with the c-stick (Back Air) right as I ran off the ledge. I just tapped forward, did C-stick BAir, and held back right as I did it so I go below the stage. It feels a lot easier to do than what you have in your video, but since it does require doing an attack, it's probably not useful if you want better timing.
I was able to hug the stage without grabbing the ledge, which means I can hit his forward-facing Counter directly below the ledge. In fact, I have so much more control over going under the stage if I just buffer an aerial right as I get off the ledge. I can slowfall or fastfall, I can do a FAir after I fall for a bit, I can counter, I can up B, I can use Magic! Thunder looks SUPER useful since it can completely cover the ledge and far below it. This can open up a lot of options, and it probably works for any character who has a fast enough aerial. Edgeguarding is looking crazy.
There is a method that doesn't use the 2 frame walk macro that's just as fast as this, and faster than this to do with no premeditation required. There is a very precise angle (α) to input on the control stick where the horizontal distance between the center and the stick ( |cos(α) * radius| ) is just big enough to input a full walk that allows to get off ledge, and just small enough to not input run. I need to test it on my computer to get the stick angle window / stick distance window, but to me it seems quite humanely possible to constantly pull off with enough practice.
With LSM, it's technically super easy to pull off constantly, if you don't care about being super quick. If you wanna be quick with LSM, I would think that it's adds a layer of difficulty to pass by this intermediate step of doing the diagonal 2 frame macro before inputting forward. One situation illustrating this a lot would be if you want to ledge slip this way right after landing for a lil mixup. Doing the macro right before landing or during landing lag is hard. And doing it in the air will make you drift, potentially messing up the positioning of your landing if you want to land right on the edge to immediately ledge slip. However, with this precise angle technique, it's just one movement to do while you land and you're good to go without having to have initiated the 2 frame macro beforehand.
I don't study neurology, but I would think that the necessity of having to use a 2 frame macro during some kind of animation (like run skid) before doing the ledge slip will force more premeditation into the player's thoughts. With this precise angle technique, it's just one singular movement that can be done at any time. The player would feel way more free to do this without premeditating so much, which allow better reactions.
interesting
There is niche application for me personally:
if inputed very fast with L stick away immediate following L stick in
It becomes a ledge trump.
For someone like me who doesn't trump consistently it helps.
thank you for your service gimmer
looks like edgeguarding is back on the menu boys
Fun fact, with Lucas you can run up to the ledge, quickly input the opposite direction and input a short hop z-air and he will instantly grab the ledge. This is great for ledge trumps.
I don’t see many Lucas players doing this so when I found out about it I thought you might want to know
This is so easy to do, how come I've never seen this anywhere lmao
i love that, this looks really practical
Not quite the same tech, but there is also an easy way to buffer neutral/forward airs and neutral/down specials the frame you leave the ledge. Fast buffered nairs can also have the same application of hitting recoveries, especially tethers, before the 2-frame.
Of course, you still have all of your dash momentum, so after the first few frames you're still quite a bit further out than with LSM. However, for some big, quick moves like Yoshi's nair it's even easier and faster to catch people snapping to the ledge than LSM.
I made a (very poor quality) video about this years ago, and JforJonas also made a (much better quality) one as well if anyone's interested. You'll see JforJonas go though a couple of examples with Chrom down special and Incineroar nair:
czcams.com/video/B-6dzCf_2mI/video.htmlsi=P1ClmwGjTf7GHznW
czcams.com/video/Nk85614IOyE/video.htmlsi=tDQ4C3Q6PUVi1U1t
nice
This seems like the same principle to the samus tech known as "bird pooping"
Most useful and easiest to implement of Techmas so far.
I definitely found something useful for kazuya, thank you again for helping push the meta.
Oh, what is it ?
No one commenting on the trailer for the merch??? That had me rolling, amazing work!
Light is like "WTF, use someone else's linear recovery ffs"
I hope this makes the hero ledge slip up b a lot easier because I struggle with doing it
It makes recovering low so much riskier.
labbing this rn, it's actually insanely easy but still really useful
great tech gimr 👍
My ears are ringing with fox death sounds
Oh Light is gonna love this
holy shit this is really good. finally consistent edgeguards against palu
YOOO NEW MELEE TECH TO LEARN
This seems useful against anyone who is hugging the stage for recovery. First thought was Krule or Marth
Fatality showcases this one in his falcon guide
FIRE!
HAAAAEUGH!
welp, Light just dropped a little in the ranks
Heuu. What about the instant trump tech. The one where you run and do an half circle back when reaching the ledge and you instantly grab it. It seem to work with the same mechanics. So I was wondering.
interesting
Most useful one so far
Yea i think i watched a video on this some years back. I definitely use even today
Light watching this pissed. Tweak watching this hype
Tries on Seph... Ohh yes I forgot he's can't be touched
Thanks for the video!
I'm glad GimR uses different characters as punching bags w different videos, I was starting to feel bad for Joker
ah yes
a new melee tech in 2023
this game will never die
This is going to be so useful for Rosalina. She can go so deep and Dair and Fair can cheese stocks at 50-60%, and they both combo from nair (which you can fast fall off the ledge easily to set this up).
Melee tech!
The aerials and desyncs were so cool. Also the method in general since i always walked towards the ledge and then held crouch and used the old method. THE BANANA 🍌 IS NUTS 🥜. its so cool imo that its a one frame link to. As for mac he gets two things off of ledge slip and I'll try to implement this tech to get into position faster 👍🏼 Ive also been practice the zdrop with my pocket Pacman a lot and zdrop > ledgedrop/grab ledge is so cool
Light is gonna have to find a new character to main 😂
This came out as I was watching the first 3 in a row 😂
i dunno if tweek does this but if not could lead to even better edgeguards
Light after this video: "Hello, may I take your order?"
Not trying to die/stay on the stage finna be hard
This might actually be gamechanging, low recoveries have always been broken but this could change things
thank you gimster
AWSOME!
Nice tech Gimz!!
Def not new but a good explanation of it fully I imagine
RIP FOX 2023 💀
Fox mains are cooked after this
We got pretzel motions in smash, let's gooooo
Thank God for body press iron defense foul play and metal burst
Kome does this a lot to put dair on the ledge as shulk
The question now becomes whether or not todays meta of smash players have the fundies to pull this off consistently
Fox: FIR-HARRGGHHHH!
This is a similar tech found by Sora players, I believe I saw dusty_carpet and ferps doing ledge slip firaga and counter although both was not quite the same tech as this
It’s funny I saw Chunkykong using this and the DSC before these videos came out
Item characters are all S tier I swear
I picked a horrible time to go back to school lmao
This also works with dash shield ledge slip, dash attack ledge slip and roll ledge slip. But I was only able to get the Mario instant land back air and diddy kong banana ledge slip consistently with the dash shield ledge slip.
😮😮😮😮 I am absolutely loving these. Lvl 9 CPU cannot beat me anymore
Underrated tech
meleeeeeeeeee
8:27 I wish you put inputs there too, because I didn't understand what you meant in those instances (get there early/too close). What should one do there to get the ledge slip?
sorry, you go into teeter and then it's the same as before
@@GimR So get teeter > forward > back? I either grab ledge or run past like usual by doing that though... Also worth mentioning that, with the normal method of running there, then turning to up/down-forward diagonal, my character keeps going, I have to put the stick more between the down/up notch and the diagonal notch, rather than on the diagonal-forward notch.
Transcript: Fire! Hyaaah! Fire Hyaaah! Fire! Hyaaah!
Oh naw, bowser edguarding gonna get 20x better than it already is
Poor fox. The guy got manhandled by every character in the cast for being easy😭
wow this is nuts
stuff like this is why you need a 8-direction stick instead of the round ones nintendo gives you. I can't perform any of this on my joycons or even on my pro controller consistently. I hope Nintendo thinks about precision when designing the next controllers
You could always mod your controller by making notches in the 8 corners.
@@matthewkeenum you can also just buy a gamecube controller or whatever. I just wish it didnt feel necessary in order to compete
@@jamesmkay you could, but that requires different muscle memory and you lose the extra left shoulder button.
What you mentioned is the exact reason I don't play with a pro controller. I'm also too lazy to mod my controller.
@@matthewkeenum thank you friend
Light quivering in his boots
RIP Light 🥹
Did Fox just go down a tier?
Yooo! Lets go Jonas!
Kirby top tier confirmed
or just input dash walk macro, and it work ( Cstick direction used for dash walk will input the aerial on the first frame you slip out except for Fair cause it dash attack )
That doesn't work I don't think because you don't go into crouch or teeter first, thus you don't get 0 momentum when sliding off
@@GimR i'ved made a video for this call "dash walk secrets"
+ you don't need input again C stick after slip off ( incoming first frame )
other specificities : if you jump during dash walk ( dashing phase ) without release directional stick , it will input a Fair.
if you release , it will input a Nair.
- you need to be very precise if you want follow the ledge curbe. and you can't used this for Zdrop Item out of ledge.
@@SinogaraI watched your video and it doesn't seem that much better than normal walk off, most of the time youre ending up way horizontal doing an aerial in your demonstration, this tech seems more applicable to me.
@@Sinogara yeah man you're tech doesn't put you nearly as under the stage (because of the no momentum>drift back) as gimr's. You should rewatch this video more carefully. Genuinely, yours isn't even close to as useful
@Sinogara Yeah man tbh your tech is dog compared to this try again (jk lol)
This has got to be how Squid the Cat sets up his teeters.
Corrin up air.
Nuff said.
el pan de cada día de los main hero
*fwooosshhh* FIRE! *whack* hngah!!
I use this a lot and it's really useful for edgeguards
You can time it really easily and it isn’t hard to do
Another way to ledgetrump