Understanding Clone Video Game Systems - SoC Vs Emulation Vs FPGA
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
- In this episode, we break down and explain what a clone video game system is, a bit about how they work, and how the major technologies differ from each other.
A clone video game system is a third-party piece of hardware that allows you to play games from Nintendo, Sega, or others using unofficial hardware. There are a few ways to do this, and each implementation has its strengths & drawbacks, and we're going to try to help explain what goes into a clone console.
SoC- System on a Chip
Most budget video game clone systems under $150 utilize some sort of system on a chip or SoC. A system on a chip essentially reproduces the functionality of all the hardware in one integrated circuit. These have been around for decades at this point, & are relatively inexpensive to produce. If it is inexpensive and emulates the hardware using just one or a few circuits what's the downside? Game authenticity often suffers from this implementation. Most of these SoCs suffer from what is called a reverse duty cycle issue which negatively impacts the audio. This leads to games not sounding correct. SoC's also have inaccurate color palettes which can make games look wrong, and games compatibility is an issue. I do not know of any SoC system that will get past level 2 in Battletoads, & things like the Famicom Disk System will not work. But when you can get an HDMI-equipped NES clone with an SoC for under 30 bucks, sometimes you're willing to make some concessions.
Emulation
Where systems with an SoC replicate the performance of the original system through hardware, there are some systems that do so via software. These systems, most often from Hyperkin, utilize a software front to download the game ROM from a cartridge into local system memory. From here, you can play the game as normal and even apply some cool trickery. For example, you can install a translation pack from an SD card to play Japanese language games in English! I've done this, it's pretty cool! Some incorrectly believe 2-in-1 or 3-in-1 systems use software emulation. That is simply not the case. While systems like the Retron 5 really popularized the idea of using software as the backbone of their system, it is not a requirement to do more than one hardware clone and a device.
So with everything that software emulators can do, that sounds like the way to go, right? Well, not exactly. You still often have game compatibility issues, especially if you are trying to load a cartridge that the operating system doesn't recognize or have somewhere loaded into a database. You also have accessory compatibility issues, often things like the Game Genie doesn't work, or the Famicom Disk System. Load times can be incredibly long for some games. And on systems like the Retron SQ, the overall experience doesn't quite feel finished.
FPGA
A field programmable gate array, or FPGA, is perhaps the most accurate means of hardware replication you can find. It uses a combination of hardware and software to mimic the performance of the original console and does so brilliantly. Out of all of the hardware types out there, this is most definitely the most customizable and the most accurate. You don't have the sound issues that you do with SoCs, you don't have the games compatibility issues that you do with emulators, it is as if you are running actual hardware with the ability to output clean, crisp images and accurate audio.
Many FPGAs, such as the Retro USB AVS, are also compatible with accessories that other systems are not, such as the Famicom Disk System! So why doesn't everyone just use an FPGA? For starters, FPGA systems start at $200 & only plays a single system. Production quantities are also an issue. Manufacturers such as Analogue and Retro USB have a hard time keeping products available.
So which one is right for you?
A lot of deciding on what system is best for you comes down to your budget. If you are looking for the least expensive system possible, a system on a chip is the way to go. You get decent functionality, often with HDMI output, but you do compromise game visual and audio accuracy. Some systems also introduce excessive lag which can negatively impact gameplay.
Emulation systems introduce a new level of complexity, however, unlock features such as different filters and translation patch options. Sometimes, however, you can run into issues with the way the software is implemented which can cause load issues, game compatibility issues, and other issues. Emulation-based systems are also more expensive, so if you're on a budget it may be more than you're willing to spend to play your copy of Super Mario Bros.
If you are looking for the most accurate gameplay experience out there and budget is of no concern, an FPGA is the most accurate way to play, with the best visuals, the best audio, and the best game compatibility. FPGA systems are simply beautiful, but that beauty comes at a cost. If you are willing to spend, this is the best overall experience you will have.
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Are you going to be getting the Sega Genesis Mini 2 now that the complete list of games has been released?
@@alanrichardson6561 I have both the Genesis Mini and Mega Drive Mini on order
@@RoXolid I just like how Amazon Japan is handling it making more expensive and my prime membership obsolete.
I remember the first time my brother and I played DuckTales on NES in the early 90's. The moon theme is so stupidly good it immediately takes me back to being a kid.
Love your channel. I think you’re 100% right, Hyperkin is a great entry to classic gaming. I have a AVS and a SuperNT which both are fantastic. Pair then with Switch Online NES and SNES controllers and it feels pretty authentic. I have been waiting to see if the Hyperkin N64 or Polymega N64 will ever see the light of day. One can only hope.
Well said! And thanks for the kind words!
I have a hyperkin NES and Gen/MD. They don't get much use it was more for testing purposes.
I picked up a MEGA SG with adapters and it is great. The quick swapping of "consoles" with the adapters is a nice plus. I usually use OG hardware still though.
WUT?!?!?
Another great video! In addition to the Gamerz Tek systems, I have a Retron 5. The main reason I bought the Gamerz Tek systems is because the Retron 5 does not play homebrews.
There's a way you can actually load games through the SD card, I wonder if you get the Homebrew ROM if you can get it to play that way?
@@RoXolid Thanks for the idea. Never tried that option!
Of course!
@@RoXolid I don't think this is possible because the retron5 5 does not support mapper 30 for the nes.
I have a good deal of the FPGA clone systems you mentioned. They are amazing! I use them just about every week in one way or another. A good plus for the clone FPGA hardware is that it's a good way of getting screen captures for video production too.
Great video!
Thanks for watching!
Retron 5 also got me back into retro game collecting now I have more systems than I would like to name 😅
Same. And that's not counting mini consoles.
Same here, counting all my clone systems and the mini systems I'm easily over 100
@@RoXolid wow I got some catching up to do! :)
@@retrorobbgaming LOL
The Retron 5 also got me back into 8 & 16-bit gaming thanks to its relative ease of use and compatibility with HD tvs. From there, I came across Analogue systems, which became my absolute go-to's whenever I'm playing Genesis or SNES games. I do wish Analogue would do another version of the NT, because that's the only one of the big 3 that I'm missing, and I'd rather not pay eBay prices to get one. I'd also be perfectly fine with a new NT that was for NES games only if it meant a cheaper price (sorry Famicom fans).
I love clone systems, much because here in Brazil both Atari 2600 and NES were dominated by clones, and, in fact,.I owned a Dactar and a Turbo Game for both systems, so I always like to watch the information about midern clones nowadays.
I love clone consoles. When I was a kid I was able to play many great games thanks to a few Famiclones.
Now I own a Super Retro Trio when I like to play on my CRT. Otherwise I just use my NES/SNES classic or Switch Online.
Very nice!
I think an emulation system can't be considered "clone hardware" since it's basically using a totally different architecture, but for many people it can be considered a clone console. As for the FPGAs my issue is that compatibility isn't 100% out of the box, the developers just go implementing patches as they go, but sometime they stop while some games still are incompatible.
Now "System-on-a-Chip" is too much a generalization, some "Super Famiclones" have almost the same quantity of chips as original systems, the only one that just exists on the single chip format is the Mega Drive(and by extent the Master System, although later models already used SOC design including the Game Gear), and what these companies like Hyperkin, Retro-Bit and Old Skool do is buy Chinese clone PCBs and give it better cases, controllers and package, now, I think I already mention that many games like Castlevania 3 and Virtua Racing don't work because of wrong wiring, what these companies should do is have the fixes already pre-installed into the board, as for the audio and video issues, some Japanese clones seem to have a more accurate palette and sharper HDMI output, so if we wait a while these will probably come over to the west, the real problem is the audio on Mega Drive and NES, replicating the reverse duty cycle would need a lot of engineering skills, but I remember that there was a synth keyboard released in 2020 that used the Yamaha sound chip and claimed to have a 100% accurate recreation.
Now, if you want a clone system that can play the entire library with accurate graphics and sound look for the GBA clones called Revo K101+ and Digi Retro Boy.
Sounds like you have a good basis for a video of your own, let me know when you post something and I would be interested in watching it
@@RoXolid I thought about doing it, but I probably wouldn't get any views, so I prefer just writing for forums.
Don't know if you don't try
I bit the bullet and shelled out the $200 for the super analogue NT and don't regret it one bit!!
Awesome video Gary! I also have a Retron 5. I bought a Retro AVS, sadly that won't ship until next summer.
Yeah, that's what's keeping me from ordering one
Very similar story, the retron 5 also got me back into retro gaming. Went to check out a new retro game store a few years back just out of curiosity. All the games brought back so many childhood memories, then one of the employees told me about the retron 5. Went down the rabbit hole from there. Started buying more and more games, then started buying the original consoles and picked up a couple CRT’s off marketplace.
As far as what clone consoles I have, retron 5, super NT, and mega SG
I have an AVS. Picked it up a couple of weeks ago. I've had a top loader nes for years. I think the AVS does a really good job. Outside of being HD, I can't tell the difference in gameplay
The AVS is awesome
@@RoXolid I'm digging it.
I have a couple of clone consoles Retron 77, Megaretron HD, RES (av) and the original Retron 3 which had s-video out for SNES and Genesis. I think one thing that warrants mentioning about systems on a chip, is that their lag comes from the cheap upscaling chip they use. If you have a RetroTink and the av/s-video console you don't have lag. In some cases I think the picture is better than the OG console going through the RetroTink (not the audio). Love these videos!
I hate to admit it, as an Analogue system owner and i own all 3, i love em dont get me wrong. But the one i dislike the most and its not ALL the time its just amount of times its annoying. Would be the Analogue NT mini... It is super sensitive and you really have to reboot the game a plethora amount of times just to get it to run... No matter how squeaky clean your carts are... But with that aside. It does run the games beautifly if i had the choice i think id rather have my NES modded with HDMI... Like you do!! So yeah stick with your modded top loader...
Oh I didn't know about that
Retro trio+ is my favorite right now, paired with cheap sd card flash carts it's alot of fun.
Just replayed through Chrono trigger for the first time in 20 years
If you're not playing original cartridges and just using an everdriver flashcard you would probably be better and cheaper off with something like a mister or retropie
@@RoXolid I actually have several really good emulation options in my house now, I just wanted a console and cart experience.
And we know original cartridge prices are way too high for most games to be a serious option.
@@jayceodell while more rare games have exploded in price, you can create an excellent collection without overspending. A great way to save as well is to use Japanese import games. For example, I got all six mega Man games, but the rockman versions from Japan, and I believe my total investment was under $150 for six titles.
@@RoXolid so I picked up a Nes from a friend for $25 and I have a N8 everdrive. I'm using a composite to HDMI adapter now but the picture quality is less than desirable. The N8 will not work on the HDMI retro trio plus so I'm looking for a good way to upscale the image that doesn't cost 200$. Any suggestions?
The RetroTink Classic should be the ticket
The MegaRetron Hd from Hyperkin is a really decent clone system. I sold mine after buying Analogues Mega Sg.
I was extremely lucky to score a boxed Retrousb Avs on ebay a few months back for 100usd.
Dude that's an amazing score congratulations
One other option is you can DIY your own NES, etc. You can find kits that let you assemble one from the actual CPU and PPU chips salvaged from a broken NES or old stock.
You can, but that's not an off-the-shelf solution that the average consumer is going to want to do. That's what I was focusing on here, systems that people could purchase and just use.
Love your reviews! They are some of the very best, likely even the best, of the type on CZcams.
For somebody wanting to play NES, SNES and possibly Genesis, what system would you recommend for a reasonable budget? I.e. it's not an option to buy three separate Analogue products, so to speak. Genesis is optional.
Say what you will on AtGames systems. I think my AtGames Genesis systems are great…. And no, NOT the crappy composite one. But the handheld and the HD console with SD card slot? Perfect. An entire Genesis collection that works. I’m more than happy with that
They are most definitely not perfect, but they are ok for what they are for. I gave a friend a Genesis one for Christmas.
I was wondering if there's a translation pack for fpga consoles? That way, you can play famicom disk games in English for example. Is there an fpga equivalent of the retron 5 too? My sincere apologies in advance for this being long.
I don’t think they have live-patching features since FPGA consoles typically access the cartridge in small chunks, like a real console, whereas the Retron 5 copies the entire cartridge rom into memory at launch and can patch it automatically. However, you can use flash carts like an Everdrive, or jailbroken firmware on the Analogue FPGA consoles to run rom files, so you could patch roms for the games you want on PC and copy them into the console to play with.
Hey Gary! I rarely get on you tube. I just got in a video rut where I was doing it too much. Just know I still consider you my brother and thanks for the prayers. Moms doing pretty good, considering.
The notifications are not letting me know when videos are uploaded. Have a good weekend my friend!
Im a collecter of these. The retron 2 hd is where i started. Have super nt and snes with a tink5x. I still love the retron 3hd. Theres no lag and it just feels right. Has excellent audio and the pixels look aligned perfectly. A tip for anyone tgat has one set to 16x9 and 4:3 on t.v. the graphics are scaled corectly with no green fringe, and no lag.
For me on retro gaming emulation consoles are the best options for one price you get access to thousands of games and don't have to buy original carts or hardware.....on the other side those who only want to have original carts and hardware nothing wrong with it i just dont want to spend a ton to play the games i want to
I always thought system on a chip just meant something like a raspberry pi, using software emulation. So i just learned something from you today, thank you for making a video about these things.
Have you made any videos about upscalers? Would be nice to see someone do a full tutorial on the new retrotink 5x.
The AT games HD genesis is what got me back into retro gaming full time. I got the best version, somehow they sent me it early. I didnt even know they updated it, found out later on that i was spared from disappointment. Now i own an analogue mega sg, i have all iterations of the gameboy family, i have a gamecube, n64, and i use my modded snes mini on a daily basis. Though i dislike playing on something that isnt fpga or real hardware. If it wasnt for that at games system, id be missing out on so much fun.
Also you should reach out to game sack, you could totally fit right in as a guest on that show. They are the channel where i learned about things like fpga and upscalers. They also helped me decide what games to put on the modded snes mini.
Game Sack are awesome, as are My Life in Gaming. I've never met them but have learned a ton from all those guys.
I did make a RetroTink Buyers guide, you can see that here:
czcams.com/video/_t5iGb1D4jw/video.html
Retron 5 is the best bang for your buck with all these systems. It's a shame they haven't updated it in years to fix compatibility issues or allow people to make their own firmware and update the emulation cores. This is one of the only systems that I know that will also take Game Gear carts which is super fantastic. It will have a permanent place on my shelf for years to come. I would have rather had the retro freak, but it was over 2 times the price.
You know what, you're not wrong. It's an incredible value with all that it can do. They've had some manufacturing quality issues over the years, but if you get one that tends to work for the first 30 days or so it should last you years. Mine stopped working because I dropped it
i have a super nt and a retro usb avs..i also have a.retron 5 i like.all three .i wish i could.get my n64 in hdmi.cheap great video gary...keep em.rollin..cant wait.too.see whats next...
Great vid Gary!.
I always try to use original systems, however, i do own a Mister Fpga and it's fantastic. Things look and feel just like the original. It also looks amazing on hd tv's. Nes, Snes, Genesis, Amiga, gameboy, tg16, etc... No lag at all also. You can add filters, scanlines, and much more. Everything is perfect. Can't recommend enough.
It doesn't play physical media though correct
@@RoXolid they are working on a way using the same adaptors that are being used to dump catridge roms and backup.
@@TheLyonkoke But that's an add-on versus something it was designed to do.
So to answer your questions, I don't have any clone systems, but like I've said I would absolutely go for the AVS if I was going to get one. You have happily reported that they will be available again soon. I'm not paying PS5 prices for an Analogue that just seems silly lol. I play on original hardware because the colors, and sound is miles above more accurate than something like a Retron. Also, there are so many mods that can be done to breathe new life into these old systems, like your hdmi top loader, or in my case a RGB Sharp Twin. But I must give credit where credit is due. Without those clone systems, your average consumer wouldn't have access, or the desire to play their old games again. Just seeing one in the store might peak their interest, and then maybe they want to get a hold of an old nes, or re buy games that they sold off years ago. The clone systems are the catalyst for this resurgence of classic games. Then there are ppl out there that say "i can do it better than that with original hardware", then things like the T.W. RGB board, Voultar 1 chip/mini bypass , or genesis triple bypass spring from. Now a days,, its full steam ahead, and the retro gaming community is constantly being introduced to all of these cool new mods. If it wasn't for these clone systems, and the resurgence in popularity, there wouldn't be all of the retro gaming channels like yours, or Metal Jesus or Riggs. If that never happens, then I don't import every Famicom ever made lol. Sorry, that was very long winded, but I can talk about this topic all day.
I've got the Retron 5. I love the thing. I mainly use it for Gameboy/Gameboy Color/Gameboy Advance (being able to play in HD on my TV is a godsend), Super Famicom games (mostly RPGs with Translation patches), and, using the Sega Power Base Converter, Master System games (mostly because if it's a game with FM sound as an option you can play it that way making a game like YS 1 a much better experience with the Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack as intended) and that's about it. Everything else I use original hardware.
I, too, am very excited for the Analogue Duo and that's the only FPGA system I will buy. Like you it's the CD part I'm most excited for. I actually have a small collection of Turbografx CD games (and hucard games) I've gotten here and there over the years (I originally planned on getting a Duo R until I leaned of this FPGA device) like Cosmic Fantasy 2, Vasteel, Exile and Gate of Thunder! Can't wait to finally play them.
And, yes, I've tried emulation, before anyone asks, but I only have a somewhat old 4gb ram laptop so games like that run like crap on it if at all. Having a plug and play option using the actual controllers sounds Devine and I can't wait for the experience.
My Favorites are the Retroad 5 Plus with the GB/GBC Extension Converter from Ali-Express and the Feihao HDMI Famicom Handheld from Ali-Express. The SOC on the Retroad 5 Plus is really pretty spectacular. With the MD adapter and the Everdrive MD Pro I can play SEGA-CD on the thing minus cutscene audio for some reason but it works. Popful Mail is great.
Thanks for sharing!
@@RoXolid The Retron 5 is on sale right now for $120.00 over at Ali-Express. It's normally $150.00. Well worth the money with all of its adapters you can get for it. It comes with two wireless controllers too. It has different aspect ratios and is region free. It even has controller ports if you want to go wired or use an 8bitdo SNES Dongle. Great System!!!!!
Hey Gary, I leave this comment all the time for you and Riggs but just so people know...The Retro-Bit Trio has a fatal flaw for NES games. The cartridge slot will not read any NES game that has a PCB with the pins that do not go all the way to the edge of the PCB. I admit that I have not idea why some copies of the same game (think regular games like Tetris) have the short pins and some do not but there ya go. On another note, it was a Christmas gift (ManCrate) that had a clone NES console inside and two game that start my ridiculous obsession and collection 10 years ago so I know how you feel about the Retron 5!
The original Trio or the new HDMI Trio 3+? I've not had that issue myself
It's worth pointing out that many consoles underwent revisions and the later revisions are essentially clone consoles. For example most snes consoles you find in the wild are the "1 chip" models. These are a hardware revision that work off a completely different cpu than the original "2 chip" models. The 1 chip models suffer from all the same problems as any other clone console i.e. incompatibility, graphical glitches, and sound glitches.
If it is from the original manufacturer by definition is not a clone it is original equipment. As you stated though, it is a hardware revision
@@RoXolid I am making the point because I don't want people to think there is anything wrong with clone consoles. Nintendo clones their own consoles all the time they just rub some euphemism on it and call it a "revision".
Your point of view makes sense when buying products from game stores. It would seem silly to call revisions "clones" in that context because clone consoles sell for a different price. However developers and speed runners see it differently. I heard a hardware developer refer to his official work with a company as "cloning" the "original" console. His job was to use cheaper hardware for a console.
From a gaming perspective (actually sitting down with a controller and playing ) hardware revisions play like clone consoles. Just because it's officially licensed doesn't mean the developers did a good job. The SNES jr, for example, has pretty bad compatibility. Fpga consoles are actually more accurate and compatible than most officially licensed hardware "revisions".
@@riggel8804 this is where consideration of the audience intended along with the type of content being delivered matters. If you're in the speed running, you already know more than what this video is providing. This was a very superficial look at the three different common technologies for those looking to perhaps purchase their very first clone system.
What is the difference between the Retro Trio and the Retro HD
I have a video on that, here you go! czcams.com/video/yGzqiVrI9Xk/video.html
I have no clone systems. I wouldn't want to spend an arm and a leg for quality, and don't really know which of the cheaper ones is the best choice.
Check out some of the videos I've done, it might help
I have all of the Analogue products and they are totally worth the cost! I would recommend Analogue without hesitation. The only problem I see is the availability.
And the price!
@@RoXolid Oh yes, agreed!
The MiSTer is superior to clone consoles and original hardware. It does have some drawbacks though: 1)It's not plug and play; 2) it's not cheap (however it's about the same as an analog product); 3)It won't validate my plastic (plays software only).
That is not a clone console in my view. A clone console has to play physical media
@@RoXolid So it *would* be a clone console if only someone made a reader
No, I would not consider that to be a clone console. A clone console needs to be all in one, out of the box, designed to play physical media.
@@RoXolid Why?
@@Cheesecannon25 because otherwise you could consider a computer to be a clone system. Design and intent matters in my opinion, and if it was not designed to do something out of the box from the manufacturer then I don't consider it to be a clone console. Perfect example, the poly mega offers all these different adapters for different systems, right? The manufacturer designed that into it, hence I consider that to be a clone.
I have original hardware and use sparingly to reduce wear. I do have clones but there’s compatibility issues. I do have and love what Analogue offered with FPGA consoles as they’re updatable, have tons of settings and my experience with them are the closest to the originals. I have the AVS too and it’s pretty much the same as the Analog NT mini.
Yeah, I thought Kevtris worked on the AVS and works for Analogue now but not 100%
Beautiful video! Great information! I also got reintroduced to retro gaming via the Retron 5. I loved it until it died. Now I use the orignal hardware.
Thanks so much!
Also, I don't know about you, but I am fully on the #DoneClub. They gutted the heart out of the team with the Hader trade
Even the Switch runs off from a SOC.
Very well put my friend!
Thanks, hope you and your family are well my friend
Where did you get the Mario kart t-shirt.
Target within the last week or 2
Okay thanks
Looking at clone systems historically might be a better approach. The first clone consoles were "system on a chip." Made out of brazil and china. They were contemporary with the original nes and genesis. In Brazil's case they were made because actually NES consoles were not available. Later, around the 2010s, the emulation based consoles started to come out. People were feeling nostalgic for old consoles and Atgames and Retron made quick cash grab products. They were pretty bad products when compared to pc emulation. This paved the way for fpga sytems. People wanted something better. Fpga was the answer to all the laggy crapy emulation and clone systems out there. Analogue started with clone NES and Neo geo systems they made from harvesting original hardware for it's organs and slapping a fancy case and output board on it. People actually bought those proving there was a market for high end clone systems. Then Analogue went into fpga systems and was successful. People saw that Analogue products were not using their full potential and open source MiSTer came out of that. MiSTer is the final form of clone systems. It's power level is over 9000!...I probably should just make my own video on it.
This is about helping people understand what's on the market now if they want to buy something. Sounds like you have a lot to say about the topic, I look forward to seeing your video on the subject
Whatever you say there boss
@@PatrickThomasBrady thanks man. I got kinda fired up watching this video but I sorta lost interest. Might make a video someday. I'm working on a Battletoads playthrough/commentary with my wife right now. Should be uploading in the next week or two.
@@riggel8804 I got a little fired up myself, and no disrespect to RoXolid but this didn’t explain the differences between software emulation, hardware emulation, SOC’s, FPGA and clone consoles in general, and he’s misleading everyone when talking about playing physical media which appears to be his biggest issue with any FPGA/hardware based emulation console, it’s the only way to acheive original hardware experience, utilize the benefits of more powerful tech for higher fps, resolution, etc, and with the AVS and analogues consoles actually play from your physical games
You clearly did not watch the video or pay attention to anything that was discussed in here. You actually seem like the exact type of person that I was making this episode for. Just because it is not an fpga does not mean it does not play the actual cartridge. Systems on a chip play the actual game, it does not dump the ROM into onboard memory. The main purpose on this video was to explain the difference between software emulation systems which do in fact dump the cartridge into local memory, a system on a chip which uses very simplistic hardware emulation to play the physical cartridge, and fpgas which I mentioned in this video are the most accurate way to play. So before you talk that I am misleading anyone watch the content, read the more info section, and if you don't like the way I explain things don't watch. But to say that I'm misinforming people clearly shows you did not watch the video
I think my only complaint about Hyperkin Retron 2 is the sound. Haven't looked into any clone systems with HDMI support.Though I think it's great for import games. I would prefer emulation as it's how I prefer reliving classic games if it's possible and doesn't sacrifice anything.
The newer Retron N, the AV Version, has pretty decent sound actually.
I've tried the retron 5, and have the Super Nt and Mega Sg. They have pluses (loved patching my Japanese games on the retron 5, and the Analogue systems run everything I've thrown at them like a dream) and minuses (still waiting on my Analogue pocket, preordered last year, and the Retron has some pretty blah controllers, though at least they have ports for official ones)
I have a bunch of clone systems! I have the Retron 1, Supaboy, Retron 77, the RetroChamp, and a bunch of others. Do the Analogue systems count as clones? You can add those to the mix, I guess!
I used to have a Famiclone. Sound was terrible but it played nice until its last days. I also owned a fake Mega Drive 2 before I got the original hardware.
If I want a clone system I'd choose the Analogue consoles. More expensive than getting the originals where I live but it's a great purchase
Oh no, I don't ever want to go back to a CRT
@@RoXolid that's valid. The Analogue clones are a very great choice to play with HDMI
I own the retron 2 Av composite version
For clones SoC or any under $100 for nes and snes I’m leaning towards the Retron 2 HD being the best option quality sound and compatibility wise would thought agree or do you think there is a better more authentic one under $100?
The Retron 5 really overachieved in my opinion. The software is pretty darn solid, and you can play a ton of games on it. The games look great and luckily, I haven't had any quality issues. The price used to be quite reasonable, but I've noticed it has been steadily going up. Maybe they have finally stopped production, not sure.
I have a Mega Sg and a Retro-bit system that plays NES, SNES And MegaDrive games. I love using original hardware too but I think they look and sound terrible on modern day TVs/ Sega Europe announced today that the Mega Drive 2 mini is coming to Europe and it comes with Desert Strike! I can't wait...
That's awesome! I have a Mega Drive Mini 2 and Genesis MIni 2 on order!
I like the idea of the Analogue Pocket but I have a Consolized GBA, Epilogue GB Operator, IPS screen GBA and a GBA SP inside of a DMG-01 for Gameboy and Gameboy Color. Maybe someday I will get it. IDK
Clone consoles... FPGA ones at my place must be imported, but good luck with that, I wanted to get the AVS but due to the fact that I cannot find a way to import one... I went instead for a Famicom AV instead, maybe in the future I can get one.
I still have my Sega Master System oh my God I am old I remember when I got it back in the late '80s early 90s before I had my NES
That's cool!!
I have OG hardware and AVS, Analogue NT, and SG. I like options!
How many are green?
@@RoXolid With envy?
@@Owazrim Correct
Ordered a retron 3 hd brand new a week ago, the snes slot was DOA. I returned it. Considering the old skool classiq or the retro trio.
Ooooof, that stinks! I would go Retro Trio 3+ over the Classiq 3 myself.
You mean the hardware based emulation systems use a FPGA ( Field Programmable Gate Arrays ) which will do a 1:1 recreation of the hardware emulated if the emu core is made correctly. Example is the Mister FPGA
Not entirely, SoCs are still hardware-based and recreate the functionality of the hardware. However, FPGA systems are MUCH more accurate in their reproduction.
Thanks for ur videos. 💚
Glad you like them!
I got the retrousb. It works really well
Nice!
Wanting to get a NES Clone, my first option was the Retron HD since i have the Supa Retron HD, I've seen videos fo the GamerzTek 8-Bit HD and the Retrobit RES+.
My question is, which one is the better NES Clone?
I'm not sure the RES+ is available any more, and it's been 6 years since I've tested it so my memory is a bit foggy. The 8-Bit HD I recently re-reviewed and I forgot that it used a propriatary connector for power instead of Micro USB. Also, the color and audio weren't as good as I remembered. The Retron HD is ok, but I found the sound and visuals to be worse than the 8Bit-HD. Since you have a Supa Retron HD you might want to look at the Retron2 HD or Retron 3 HD, that way you can condense your setup a bit vs having multiples.
@@RoXolid I didn't think about the retron 2 or 3. I may try the retron 3 HD since my son likes sonic the hedgehog. Plus I was wanting to get him a genesis Clone for either his birthday or Christmas.
Great video thanks to the explanations! It's a shame that there are no actual hardware clone (aside from the overpriced Analog NT RIP)!
There's the RetroUSB AVS as well, and the Budget Hardware Clones are still clones, just not as accurate.
@@RoXolid Hey thx for the answer! I'm interested in those bad hardware clones if you have some names. Regarding the AVS it's interesting as it seems it's an FPGA according to My Life in Gaming RGB305's episode and RetroRGB (who looks like reliable sources but yet could be wrong). Also it's note worthy, imho, that there's only an implicit line on RetroUSB AVS official description: "Real hardware means no boot or loading times. No stolen software emulators or buggy NOAC chips. A wide range of gamepad, video, and cheat options to play the way you want.".
Sorry for the long text!
I'm running NES games on a Retron 1 HD and man it's really a mixed bag... I can't believe SoC's after nearly 40 years can't accurately immitate an NES...
You're not wrong
I bought a Retron 5 day one. It’s a great device, it’s just a shame it STILL hasn’t been hacked to allow you to run roms off the SD. I honestly thought the hacking community would have had custom firmware within the first 6 months, but here we are almost a decade later.. ahh well.. I guess at least there’s plenty of other ways to do that these days. I did trade in my original 5 for the Hyper Beach edition though, love that color.
Btw, I noticed I was unsubscribed from your channel! That’s been a real issue on CZcams lately
It actually has been hacked to run ROMs off the SD card. I don't remember the exact process but you had to have a game from the system that the game you're running off the SD card in the system, and somehow you loaded it off the SD card. It's been like 5 years since I did it and I don't remember the exact steps but it is possible
That it is, that's why you hear creators all the time asking people to verify that they are still subscribed to a channel.
Does this mean that the Retron based on the emulation is actually better than the one based on hardware ?
Does Retron based on the emulation, do not have sound lag (on hdmi) ???
I'm asking because i don't need a 100 % accurate graphics, i prefer to actually have the sounds that is not off.
Audio lag isnt' the issue with hardware, it's the actual audio sound itself. The audio on the Retron 5 is much more accurate than the SoC systems
@@RoXolid thanks! :)
@@grzegorz__ of course! If you have any other questions don't hesitate to reach out
I prefer the old analog clones such as the Super Retro Trio. Not emulation and does have accurate sound.
Ok so there is nothing that tries and use parts similar to the original hardware? I guess it makes sense but I am curious how one can get the closest thing to playing the original console while getting the benefits of some of these clones like save states or having multiple systems in one.
You'll need an FPGA System to accomplish what you're looking for. There was some system in the past that used CPUs and PPUs from original hardware but I don't recall what it was.
@@RoXolid Thank you for your help, I have a hard time finding this any other way but just knowing the system alone is a huge help.
@@RoXolid Analogue NT (not mini) used original PPU and CPU from salvaged NES's.
This begs the question why or what games have don't run on these clone consoles correctly or have issues because from what i have seen at least for me battletoads on the NES seems to freeze at level 2
Battletoads is about the only one that breaks
@@RoXolid is there a clone console that you have tested where that game actually works correctly or are all the clone consoles do the same thing with just that game the only reason i am asking is because i don't have the HDMI mod on my NES and i am looking for a good clone console to play that game which i own and all my other NES and SNES and Genesis games that I own so which one would your recommend
@@allansmith7139 All of the budget HDMI clones, I'd say there was $100 and under, I'll pretty much operate the same way as this one. So you're going to run into similar games compatibility issues. When you get into things like the retro USB AVS, that will be able to play games like Battletoads
clone systems have come a looong way. im impressed more and more. i have the Retron 5, the later release that's blue/pink. uhhh it's kinda... ugly lol. but! i can use real controllers, even wireless ones on it. it runs all my carts, so far, beautifully. save states. scanlines, filters, etc. it's nice. i have 2 huge CRTs i had to put in storage, they were in the way in my man cave. all my original consoles also in the way. i now have PS5, a bunch of mini retro consoles and the Retron 5 all playing on my big fancy new tv. saves space. but it's still too expensive in usa to collect retro carts now days. many common nintendo games are like $10 online. im thinkin... what?! no! you can still find many common nes games at garage sales and flea markets for $2!
u see hyperkin supposedly gonna release a TG16 clone? looks slick. i wish they'd just do a Retron 6 and add a TG16 game card slot to it. but who can afford to collect tg16 game cards?!
Does it play all region games as in Pal and ntsc/ntscj ?
Most clones will, yes
I had to really tweak my settings and be very specific in my search to find this video. These algorithms are BS, man!
If you are on Twitter follow me there, I always put out a tweet early in the morning before I link to the actual video going live. You can pretty much bet on monday, wednesday, and Fridays
So S.O.C is basically hardware emulation and emulations (as we usually understand it) is software emulation?!
Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. Also, with SoCs you don't have a long boot time due to the fact you're not loading an operating system
@@RoXolid Thank you for the reply. I hadnt even thought about boot times/operating systems.
That's what I'm here for, I think of the stuff so you don't have to, lol
I’m fine with software emulation. Because the game is software anyway. I mean isn’t a computer basically a big emulator? So I’ve gamed on a pc my whole life. It’s software running software. What’s the difference and the main thing is keeping these games alive.
Man I'm just not sold on fpga. I remember when people were saying it's not emulation it's simulation lol. Then it turned out to be less accurate than bsnes.
Disregard the artificial hype and marketing- it is a form of emulation. And there are misconceptions about it too, but at the same time they don't mean FPGA is bad no more than the marketing means it's magically good. FPGA has a big advantage over software emulation- the processor can run instructions in parallel like the original hardware. This means accuracy comes at a much lower cost. It doesn't mean an FPGA core is magically more accurate- that task is still left up to the developers. However, MiSTer developers, for example, are almost universally dedicated to making their cores as accurate as possible. Many are decapping arcade boards and going back to basics on their coding to re-assess basic behavior in systems, and it's actually benefitting both sides of the emulation coin. Many bugs that have been long standing in MAME have now been fixed by the corresponding FPGA core, and the solutions shared back to the MAME developers.
I don't know where you've seen that the SNES core (or do you mean the Super NT?) is less accurate than BSNES, but I think if you do some research into MiSTer you'll find a wealth of information about the cores and their development. It's truly the next frontier for emulation of many systems (think PS1 era and earlier) and there is so much active development you'll find new cores and improvements almost daily.
I have a couple friends that have the Retro USB AVS and they swear by it. That they say that the experience is absolutely wonderful. Now doing an NES and a famicom definitely takes less horsepower than say a turbo graphics 16 or super nintendo, or an N64, but everything that I've heard and seen and everyone that I've talked to absolutely loves it
I’ve used a almost all of these system ls and I have an AVS and super NT and I wouldn’t use anything else. Only thing I would use different is modded original hardware but I’m terrible at soldering.
I play my retro games on the mister FPGA
But that doesn't play physical cartridges or discs
And doesn’t an fpga use software to emulate anyway? I mean I love it but I think is not all to different.
P.S. the avs is awesome.
While FPGA is a form of emulation, it's different from software emulation in a fundamental way. There is coding that gets programmed to the chip, but this is literally like any other chip in existence- they all have to be programmed to behave a certain way. FPGA simply lets the code be executed in parallel rather than sequentially, so timing accuracy comes at a much lower cost.
I use a combination of Real Hardware and MiSTer FPGA. MiSTer is so darn good its incredible!
But the MiSTer does not play physical games
My favorite clone console is a raspberry pi.
Yeah no
@@RoXolid why not?
@@halkieria7581 because it doesn't play any physical media. By that same token I don't consider a computer to be a clone system.
@@RoXolid oh ok
So raspberry pi is simply an emulation station, not a clone system
13:10 wtf
lol..ass...i'll get one someday!