How to operate two generators in parallel
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- In this video, I will demonstrate how to parallel two MEP-002A diesel generators. Operating the generators this way provides for double the power output of a single generator, and allows them to handle significantly larger starting surges.
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I have an electronic engineering degree, I was always taken by a story that one of the usual lab experiments was to sync a 3 phase generator to the grid and connect it to the grid such that it was contributing power.... the lab tec told us how this was achieved by three bulbs, wired properly they indicated when the generator was in sync and you could connect them. (i.e. all extinguished) this lab test ended when in the late 80's someone messed up bad and connected a completely out of phase genny to the grid, lots of smoke and fire ensued lol needless to say we never got to do it but so cool to see it in practice.
Watching the O-scope and sine wave(s) with the matching lamp together was a special treat. Older shops would not invest in a scope so seeing one in the field was rare in the 60-70's. Best Wishes.
I've never seen this done without a synchroscopes and switchgear. The manual way is fascinating!
As a marine project engineer, I must say that this is a job well done, great demonstration. Two thumbs up :)
That is correct! Once they are running phase, it is the same as if they were mechanically connected together at their crankshafts. Thinking of it this way helps to understand why opening the throttle on one generator causes it to pick up more load...
Interesting. I like how you closed the breaker by watching the phase lamp go out.
This is an excellent video that simply explains how paralleling is accomplished. I've worked on generators and paralleling for more than 30 years and this video is perhaps the best one I have seen on the subject. Also loved the old Onan-powered military units running together...haven't seen that before.
Your advice on adjusting only speed/frequency once they are paralleled is excellent. The voltage regulators on these older generators aren't accurate enough to get perfect balance of current load for a long period of time.
I was looking for this demonstration everywhere and couldn't find it. Thank you so much!
Thank you for the video. Knowledge like this is hard to find.
Thank you for sharing your setup and information.
Brilliant demonstration
Even with the voltages matched, the current never seems to quite equal out on the 2 sets. Real load should be matched at that point in the process, so to match reactive load I just adjust the voltage on one set up and/or down very slightly to even out the ammeters on the 2 generators. This ONLY adjusts reactive load, and not real load. Real load adjustment is done with the throttle (opening the throttle will cause that generator to pick up more of the load).
Great video.
I have paralleled 1.5 KVA to 10 KVA and four pole to two pole, three phase to single phase, no problem. Use 120-VAC lamps in series instead of 240-VAC. Voltage differences have not been a problem for me, exciter current was a problem running up so I built a circuit that I can adjust a set point then input to op amp comparators that trigger triacs in series with PMG or rotor current. It switches on/off so fast the output is unchanged but when either stator starts loading, the other nulls
Sounds easy enough considering I've been playing with Gensets for a few years but by no means to your extent :p Thank you for all your videos love them all, wish you had the time to make videos everyday :p
Two very important facts that must be observed, one you mentioned briefly but anyone not in the trade would have missed the importance.
The generators must be fitted with paralleling equipment, in your case called Master/Slave control. Other makers call it Unit/Parallel. or even Isoch/Droop control. This switch alters how the AVR in the alternator functions, in Master/Unit/Isoch mode the AVR will hold a constant voltage regardless of Load current and load power factor. In Slave/Parallel/Droop mode the AVR allows the voltage to 'droop' slightly in response to reactive line current, this stops one machine hogging all the current or chasing each other up and down the voltmeter, it provides control stability.
The second point that is important is that both machines need to have the same winding pitch, this is a technical term but simply means both machines must have the same type of winding pattern, they can be different ratings, you can parallel say a 10 kw unit with a 20kw unit no problem, but both machines need to have the same winding pattern (number of stator slots on each coil and the throw between coils), this stops circulating 'harmonic' currents running between the two machines burning out the windings.This can be stopped by opening the Neutral wire on one machine, but that is a whole level of complication beyond your video, which was I must say very well done.
Your demonstration of the sync lights using the oscilloscope was text book stuff excellent.
Cheers Ray. EX Detroit Diesel sparky 20 years on remote isolated power stations in outback Australia.
whorayful I'm young when it comes to this whole Generator/AC systems. However I got a question, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the MEP 831A, little 3Kw. For heaven's sake I would not get power sent down to my load. All my K12,14 and K15 relays a a are good. My K1 the main contactor relay is good, my frequency converter produces the rated 120/240 Volts across the L1,L2 and N terminals, yet nothing comes out through the output side where you hook up your load. What could be the reason?
Man, those generators running with no mufflers or enclosures are giving me PTSD flashbacks to my days working in the company TOC. Good God, man! You don't have to live like this! 🤣
Great video there.
You sure look familiar. Seems I used to watch you under another account name. Still good stuff and the generators sounded like a pair of Onan's. Thanks, Pal!
Lewie McNeely I switched from Sewerzuk to my name a month or two ago...
That's what I thought. The next thing I was going to ask was if you had a 2 1/2 or a 5-ton and took flying lessons! I went ahead and subbed back. Now maybe I can keep track of you. But did you ever fool with any military gensets with a Detroit on them? I remember one the guys were working on in RVN and it kept shutting itself down. NOTHING is as spooky as when the emergency stop flap pops stut on a 2-cycle after dark! That MOAN! OOSH!!! Stood the hair up ALL over. And I think it was bigger than a 2-banger and maybe even a 53 series but maybe not. It was pulling a hot oil heater (diesel burner) and circulator pump on an asphalt plant. Maybe it was a 2-71. Me don't know!.
Awesome video
Love it
thanks for the nice demo....what is the in-rush current on your compressor?
Outstanding!
You are my hero.
As a Chemical and Electrical Engineer I'm impressed with your acumen. I know a lot of electrical engineers that couldn't do that (on paper sure but not actually do it). Most impressive was that you understood that the frequency had to be matched by adjusting the throttle on one to increase the RPM. Do you have formal electrical engineering training or just technical experience? Next project will have to be turning three generators into a 3 phase supply system.
Thanks! I was a nuclear electronics technician in the Navy, but my "real" knowledge simply comes from practical experience, trial and error, and burned up components :)
LOL
I salute you. Thanks for your service. Practical experience is more valuable for realistically executing an every day project in my opinion. Knowledge of deep engineering theory just doesn't cut it most of the time.
If all you can do is read about something and even if you can quote it BUT can't do it, who's going to listen to a lecture when something's got to be fixed! Application beats yapping hands down.
Come on really. You went and got two different engineering degrees. I'm very skeptical.
It does depend on the time of year, how many are available in a given auction, geographical location, etc. The -002a's typically go from about $400 to $1500. A little more for trailer mounted ones. Unfortunately, you are not allowed to test them before bidding on them, so it is possible to buy a bad one and not know it until you begin work on it.
Good stuff! If you take requests would you consider talking about the setup you've got to load test generators?
Oh .....I like your lathe....nice back drop....
Always like your videos. I have just a Briggs & Stratton home generator and am interested in getting one or two of these. I have a 5.1 KW solar panel set up.
I see them on Government Liquidation's site. What is a good price to pay for a running unit?
Ok, thanks. Guess I could buy 3 and use the others for spares or something : ) Thanks for your reply.
I'll admit I had to google 4A084...that's an aircooled aircraft engine, right? What generator setup are you using? Generally, you can parallel any two like generators that have adjustable voltage and RPM/frequency controls. The larger the set, the easier it is to parallel...
hey !
what's the motor of the generator 002A Hollingsworth , and where can I find parts for the motor ?, thank you !
It's a sight to see theory in action. Thank you. I have a question, though; What safety measures would kick in if, for whatever reason, one generator stalls (ie. runs out of fuel, etc.)?
Can you adjust the RPM of the generators? The AVR might be a problem; do the voltage regulators have adjustable setpoints?
You must be able to adjust both engine RPM and voltage output to parallel two generators...there is no "device" that you can add on to two small sets to do this for you...
What happens if one runs out of fuel, or otherwise shuts down? In 3 phase generators i assume it would act as a motor and try to keep spinning the engine at the same speed minus slip. Unless current becomes to high and trips the breaker. But what about single phase? Would it just trip the breaker immediately?
Thanks for one of the best practical explanations ever. Weldon.
Question : what if the parallel gens are not of the same power e.g. 10 and 15 KW ? Can we still hock them up ?
yes, this isn't a problem. Think of power stations running in parallel. They come on all different sizes.
Is it possible to use same method on 2 8000 watts portable generators ? any difference in procedure?
Is this possible to parrelle two normal genrators.I have two of the same generators both with AVR.If I can not parrelle them manualy what devices can you get to sync the two.
WOW, Cool video, could I do this with Two 4A084's?
awesome
WARNING different ground potentials can be deadly. I know of a situation where two truck-mounted generators were side-by-side and a guy went to step from the bed of one truck to the bed of the other truck, placing his hands on the metal "headache racks" of both trucks. Sadly he was electrocuted from the difference in ground potentials.
Ok, Think I'll join that forum, I also think I understand now, once they're in Phase and you close #2 Breaker the two gensets are Dynamically coupled/synced together and if they are out of Phase just a touch when switch is close they are pulled together parallel in Phase. ???
This is a very cool demonstration.
I'm curious - what would happen if one engine ran out of gas - would the other generator keep the dead one spinning, along with the engine itself? That would be a great demo video but only if you dare!
+MrTuber7117 i too wondered this.
+MrTuber7117 as the generator that ran out of gas slows, the load will shift to the generator running faster. The alternator of the slowing engine will then become a motor and drive the engine to keep it synchronised. A reverse current relay can be used to open the breaker to avoid this scenario.
+MrTuber7117 It would try ... drawing more and more current until a breaker opened (or a fire started).
This is awesome. I have a question for all the experts watching this video. I am looking in to going off grid and having a stand alone generator such as an onan 7.5 KW RV generator and doing a parallel with a more affordable Predator 9500 inverter. Technically this is possible since they are both inverter generators. Anyone have some advice?
Also I would be using a manual transfer switch like the generac that prevents backfeeding. I would just want to be able to run a full house using diesel on the onan and natural gas on a Predator inv gen with a tri fuel kit.
Matt I have a 002 that the start switch is stuck in prime. I can turn to start but it won't let me turn it to the left past prime. I have to pull the circuit breaker emergency kill to turn it off. Have you experienced this before. Is the switch repairable?
Thanks
Has anyone done this with two portable gas generators that are two pole 3600 RPMS? In theory it could work, but the mechanical governor would have to be set equal to each other and voltages matched with a DVM. A single phase reverse current relay with time delay would also be prudent to prevent motoring damage or excessive transient spike damage.
Hi Sewerzuk,
Please show the wiring connection inside the bulb
Junction box. I want to be accurate in making poor man's
Phase indicator.
Thank you very much.
I wonder what the difference in phase angle of a power station in Louisiana vs a power station in Canada? Hmmm
Great video! But what is that keeps the two generators in phase? Is there not some drift over time?
No drift; once they are paralleled, there is no way for them to drift out of phase. The electrical connection between the generators is the same as a mechanical connection would be between the two engines.
Would it matter if my 240V light bulb is powered by L1 and L1, L3 and L3, or L1 from gen1 and L3 from gen2 ??
Why don't you just get 1 805 and call it a day? lol. Very good video though! I like your " poor mans phase indicator ".
How do you wire the light socet to the plugs?
can one.be a reg genertor and the other be a inverter geny?
Lots of information and parts at SaturnSurplus.
How cool ... I have a MEP-002A and a 7500w generator from a big box. A couple questions:
1. Your scope showed the two machines out of phase, and you switched on sync. Do they "naturally" keep the phase in sync at this point or does the one that drifted continue to drift? I know the video shows it does not, BUT does the out of phase motor sync or what?
2. WIll this work with my config?
3. Is there a way to adjust the motor speed to get the light to remain off before flipping the breaker?
4. Is there any risk at drift once the two motors are in sync?
5. Will my configuration with an under-rated 5kw motor vs an over-rated 7500w motor have problems?
1. Yes, once the breakers are closed, they cannot become unsynchronized. It's almost easier to think of the two generators as being mechanically connected at that point. they will turn at EXACTLY the same RPM once they are in parallel.
2. Maybe...but probably not. If you get really lucky, the voltage regulator and engine governors will have roughly the same droop characteristics, but in all likelihood they won't. You'll probably end up with some reactive currents that will cause the breaker on the 002A to trip.
3. You really don't want the machines to be at exactly the same RPM when you parallel them. You want the "incoming" machine to be at a slightly higher frequency than the "running" machine so that the incoming one picks up a little bit of the real load.
4. Real risk is pretty minimal...worst case scenario is that you mis-adjust voltage and/or RPM/Frequency and reverse power one of the machines. This could cause damage to one of the VR's, but would most likely just cause a breaker to trip.
5. The KW rating is less of an issue than the governor and VR droop on both machines. As load changes one machine will tend to pick up more load than the other if the droop isn't exactly the same on both. There's no real way to change that; governor spring tension would change RPM droop and adjustment pots on the VR on the -002A would change VR droop. In reality...on a machine this small it would be very difficult to get them to match exactly.
I hope this helps...I know its kind of a complicated answer. If you really need 12.5kw you're better off just buying a bigger machine...but personally I enjoy the challenge posed by this kind of task so I would try it, knowing there's a small chance I could burn up a VR.
with a 300kW generator someone said: They will always sync if they are connected ... but it might burn the whole plant. This is like the sync procedure of a MW plant. Bring the voltage to the same levels and use the synchroscope the watch for the perfect point to switch (at one rotation in about 4-8 seconds). The new generator is a little bit higher then the running generators. You might be a little bit out of sync, low/high on voltage as long as you don't exceed the maximum current. The lower the current the better.
Some duds needed 1h to sync 640000MW and they had to file extensive reports why it took so long (in 6 languages).
The biggest generator was 6 blocks of 1000 MW. You should really use a automatic sync function for small consumer generators, some generators are able to sync themself. It's possible to build a solid circuit which only allows connection if the two units are in sync (0V differential) as it's a common practice to switch electric appliance of if the current is a 0A (it's a simple circuit which delay the of till the next zero current point).
If you can easily adjust engine RPM, that is the same thing as frequency control.
What happens if one runs out of fuel or otherwise turns off?
This is some fascinating stuff, how did you figure this out? & how would a guy parallel generators of different ratings, say a 5kw and a 40 kw (both of which are what I have). Thx for the video
I was a nuclear electronics technician in the navy for almost 10 years; qualified as an electric plant operator during my time on submarines. The electrical system on a submarine relies on paralleling several different AC machines. So, I have the practical experience of performing hundreds (maybe thousands?) of paralleling operations just like this, using a synchroscope and lights (similar to what I show in the video) to parallel large turbine generators and motor generators. As for your question concerning paralleling two different machines; it probably won't work well. Two vastly different machines like you described are going to have different voltage and RPM/frequency droop characteristics. You may get them paralleled, but they likely won't behave well under changing load. There is a lot that could go into this discussion...but that's the short answer.
Well, thanks for the answer. Both my gen's are 3 phase; I got the first, (5kw military), to hopefully power a welder (you can't do much with that). I was looking into rewiring the 3 phase welder into single phase 230 [not terribly hard with engineers doing the footwork for you], and I picked up a Kohler 3 phase, 40 kw running with low hours for super cheap in the interim. One welder at full blast will gobble up about 90+ of the 139 amps available, and if I were to run 2 welders off the single generator--I could run into some issues. So, spitballing, I wondered about paralleling 2 of them. Thanks for the info and the excellent vids!!!
I enjoy your videos! Maybe you can help me with a fix on the MEP-002A I just picked up. I got excited to see it run & reversed the battery connections. I connected one terminal & lightly brushed the other terminal & got sparks. Then I read the manual, hooked it up correctly & the genny runs & puts out power but the battery charge cicuit is dead. Battery charge fuse is good & stator shows .6ohms between leads, no cont to gnd but no voltage while eng runs. Manual states call higher authority. Tnx!
You probably ruined the battery charge voltage regulator. Sometimes it de-solders one of the Cannon plug connections..trace the circuit from terminal boards to the battery charge voltage regulator. Ive fixed more than one of these cases but that was years ago.
Considering it's probably impossible to get both the motors maintaining exactly 3600 rpm, what keeps them in phase? Do you have to go back and readjust periodically to compensate for them drifting out of phase?
Once the breakers are closed, they stay in phase with each other. The electrical connection between them acts just the same as a mechanical connection would. Load is shifted by adjusting the throttle, just the same as if they were connected with a shaft.
I just cringe when people try to do what you are doing and NOT have the electrical background, that you have.
It would be great if you mentioned proper grounding of the motor-generator and associated equipment.
Guess I'll make you cringe or roll your eyes... I was thinking of just hooking up 2 generators into my panel box and then decided to youtube it. Good thing...I would have blown up my house. :-) Ok, go take a valium now.
Once the generators are in sync, do you have to re-sync them every time you turn them on?
Yes
Yes. Think about it like this. Imagine you've got your turn signal synced up with the car in front of you, then you turn yours off and back on again. It's not still gonna be synced.
2:46 since lugs L3 , L1 and L0 are hooked up and L2 is not are you are running as a 120/240 volt 1 phase system?
Yes, that is correct
huh those look big to give out 35amps in parallel
are they ancient?
How are they wired up?, Is the second generator just paralleled to your "fixed" on and then you go from there?
They are just wired together L1 to L1, L3 to L3, and L0 to L0. Once the voltages are in phase, the breaker is closed and the two generators' power is combined...
Hi, I have an older 10 K military generator set I have been putting in shape. It is a PU 669-A/G built by Condec . I am looking for information (Detailed schematic of Electric), a % of current gauge and any other information you might have. Thank you, mike
What's a convenience receptacle? Where you say where you plug in the 240 volt light bulb. How many wires from the light bulb? 1 wire into each generator? A wiring schematic would be nice on this project
The ights blinking speed is determined by the frequency yes ?
yes, determined by the difference in frequency between the two machines
@@MattVerley hey. Late to the show. Now with that 220v bulb, if those frequency is perfect opposite would it be getting 120volt? I'm kinda lost here. Its two 120v feeds, then when the frequency matched its then 220v.
@@FromtheStars100 Each machine is putting out a 120v sine wave. that 120v is reverenced to neutral; so it goes from +120v to -120v (RMS value, for those that would point that out). If you take another 120v sine wave exactly 180 degrees out of phase with the first one, when it is at +120v the other one is at -120v. So, a 240v potential between the two waves. This is actually the exact same thing you get in household 240v outlets (for your dryer, welder, oven, etc.). Two 120v waves exactly out of phase with each other.
MATT DO YOU HAVE ANY SMALL GENERATOR FOR SALE ?
So when you when you adjust frequency , you can put them in phase. why are you adjusting voltage ?
Matching voltage ensures that the reactive load is balanced. It is possible to trip the breaker on one (or both) generators on overcurrent with little or no real load on them simply because of the reactive load caused by a voltage imbalance. You adjust real load shared by each generator by adjusting the frequency once they are in parallel. Real load is the actual work done by the generator and it will load the engine down. Reactive load is basically circulating currents, and does no real work. Rather than try to explain the difference between real and reactive load here, I'd say just google "real vs. reactive load." You'll likely find a better explanation that I can write here in this comment.
I made it with INPLIX handbooks !
How did you wire up the syncro light? L1 from gen 1 to lamp, L1 from gen 2 to lamp?
You are correct; L1 from both generators, one to each side of the lamp. You can use L2 or L3 as well...as long as you're using the same one on both generators. i.e. if you use L2 on gen1 then you need to use L2 on gen2 as well.
@@MattVerley So no other bonding or neutral required? You basically take L1 from Gen 1 Connect to Lamp Terminal 1, L1 from gen 2 and connect to where you'd normally have the neutral on the lamp.. you don't need to bond N from G1 to N from G2?
hi sewerzuk. How did you wire the bulb phase indicator? did you parallel the two power cable then connect the 1st cable to the output of the 1st generator while the main breaker was closed while the 2nd power cable was connected to the 2nd generator but its main breaker was still open? is my interpretation correct?Also while using oscilloscope did you use isolation transformer on both oscilloscope inputs or both inputs were directly connected to both generators output? Thanks in advance :)
For the bulb, the hot leg from each generator was connected to each side of the bulb. That's it! The oscilloscope was directly connected to the output from each generator.
I hope you can show a video clip on this because I am a little confuse here. Just the connection of the bulb :(
Bong Sill
He had a phase from either generator on each side of the bulb, when the phases are out of sync there was 240v between the phases, but when the phases synchronize there's nothing between either phases, putting the generators in parallel.
@Martin chapman No, the bulb is there to tell when the waveforms are out of sync. Without any other connection it will do so, and extinguish when they are in sync. Look at the oscilloscope; when the waves are overlapping (or "in phase"), there is no voltage difference between the gensets, when the waves are diverging (or "out of phase") the vertical distance between the waveforms as seen on the scope will be representative of the voltage difference. We want to observe that difference, and a bulb across phases will do it nicely for us. If we were to connect the neutral, we would already be connected but not in phase; the phasing exercise would be moot; and something would break by letting its magic smoke out.
Yea it's an air cooled Teledyne/Hercules Aircraft engine 10kw. Not sure if it has frequency control, rain got into the control box and screwed up the Voltage Reg, and threw 390vac into my house LOL.
Couldn't you use a volt meter in place of a light bulb? Wouldn't it indicate zero volts or would the meters reaction be too slow?
If you had an analog meter that was fast enough, it would work fine. However, both digital and analog meters are usually too slow to accurately indicate when the voltages are in phase. A light bulb is much faster...
Timberdrone What I thought but wanted to ask anyway.
👍
There really isn't much to it...I have a short clip of my load bank and fan setup in a few of my other videos. The best shot is probably my load test of a MEP-006a. I don't use the load bank for the -002a though...can't put a small enough load on it. I just use equipment around my shop (halogen lights work well; it only takes 10 of them to fully load a -002a).
have you ever experienced two mep generators short circuit with out any load applied.. while closing the ac circuit interceptor switch while trying to parraell them. having a short circuit fault
CbrRYDA228 if you close the breaker with the sets out of phase, it will trip the short circuit fault
sewerzuk both generator sets are phased correctly I put a amp meter on each phase only b phase is showing 395 amps the units I'm working on is a mep 806a 208amp 60kw each generator will pick up a reactive load by themselves fine individually
if the permissive parallel relay is faulty will that cause the unit to trip out since that relay is in the parraell circuit( droop current transformer, permissive parraell relay, load measure unit)
CbrRYDA228 so, if I understand correctly, you're seeing a big current surge on one phase only?
sewerzuk yes only on b phase when I check one side of the load output terminals
How can you be sure reactive load is not going to change further during the use ? Because of the AVR's electronic heating up and other phenomenon ?
What happened if you release all the load ? Is there no chance to inject power from one to the other, I mean, one is driving the other ?
I think it would be more difficult with different generator. The Diesel throttle and AVR might react differently fro the other, making things more difficult. Am I correct ?
You cant, not really. I just watch each set ammeter to make sure it was roughly tracking with the real load. That was why I recommended setting voltage with a DVOM on both sets prior to paralleling.
Ok @@MattVerley. So the generator's ammeter would go backward in such a case ? Right ?
So what has to be done in such case ? Pushing the throttle or giving it more volt by acting on the AVR ? (I'm guessing)
Thanks for you help understanding things !
@@haroldthibault9921 No; in an AC system the curent alternates back and forth, so an ammeter would never run backwards. the best way I can describe it is to say the current goes from moving "back and forth" to "forth and back." Reactive load is basically circulating current between reactive loads. It places no mechanical load on the generator's engine, but does cause current to flow in the conductors. You can have zero real load on a generator, and cause an overcurrent condition with reactive load. There's a lot to discuss there, but you really want the ammeters to match each other, and to match the approximate real load on the generators. This is accomplished by adjusting the voltage regulator (not the frequency/throttle) on each set.
@@MattVerley So the most important thing to do first/beforre connecting the sets, is fine adjusting voltage, right? The you can connect the 2 sets together.
But let say you have one 10kW set and one 50kW, then you want 50% load on each. Can you control that and how ? I mean if that is possible, where do you act ?
Thank you for your time and explanation.
A friend told me I could check that my generator was right on 60 cycle by using a light bulb between the generator and power company electricity never said anything about a 220 bulb but he might have said two 110 bulbs in a series I can't ask him anymore he's passed away but will that work
Yes if you wire them in series properly. An incandescent 110 bulb might even work by itself as long as you don't run it for too long. It will just be extra bright
do you run these much?
I don't run them in parallel often; but I do have several of the MEP generators that I use for backup power at my house and shop. We recently had an outage that lasted about 20 hours. I ran one of these for about 16 hours straight so I could keep working out in the shop.
on your lightbulb only 1 line should be connected to each generator not both lines to each generator. it should be the same hot side from each generator.that way when the waveforms match the bulbs go out as there is no voltage difference between them.
Yes…that is exactly what is demonstrated in the video. L1 and L2 and N on gen 1 are connected to the L1 L2 and N on gen 2. The light is wired between the two L1’s or the two L2’s (doesn’t matter which). With the breaker open on the incoming generator, When the two generators are in phase, there is no voltage difference and the light is out. When the two phases don’t match, the light is lit. The further they are out of phase, the brighter the light.
The trick is to have two poor mans meters one as you had it the second with a diode to the first generator when they blink and stay in time your good
Now, while they are paralleled, turn one generator off so that you can simulate one running out of fuel and let us know what happens.
Every day routine for marine engineer.
How is fuel consumption with these generators?
They are very fuel efficient; per WK, I've never used anything that is more efficient!
Mine burn a bit over 20 ounces per hour unloaded and about three quarts per hour at 7000 watts resistive load. I run mine in three phase most of the time, either three water heater elements for a load bank or my Miller Dynasty welder.
Can you parallel two old gas generators that are governor setting if I set both generators the same( 60hz) under the same load setting as well...
Guess you can't do that with a typical generac gas generator. Thought it would be simple... but I'm not a rocket scientist. :-) Your good. :-)
John Smith I think it could be done, but some modifications would need to be done to the generators to allow for control to the speed governor and voltage regulator. Certainly not something that could be done easily or quickly...
I saw another video about that other thing.. now I just forgot :-( but they were the same price as a generator and made no sense to hook up 2 ... lets say 7000kw generator to a 5000kw thing so they could run together. Hey, at least I thought of it... Nice that you have a military type diesel generator able to adjust everything. What is a MEP? thanks.
Yes, like I said.. you would have to be a rocket scientist.. such as yourself.
Hellosewrzuk ,
Please show me how to wire the phase indicator.
Thanks a lot.
I think you have the neutral wires of both generators connected together. And the active wires to the light. With a globe rated at twice the generator voltage.
what i want to know is what kind of compressor are you using, it must be frocking massive! these generators are known to produce over 8kw each, not the 5kw the military claimed.
Yep; they can handle 7.5kw continuously without complaining. My air compressor is an industrial unit (not something found at home depot) made by IMC (industrial machinery corp). It has an 1800 RPM 7.5HP motor on it (REAL HP, not the phony "peak" horsepower you see on the compressors at the big box stores). IIRC it is 28 running amps @ 240v. That is inside of the capability of the -002a...but it just can't handle the starting surge.
i guess you could make the starting surge less harsh with a capacitor to assist in starting it, if that became a problem.
Hello, can you sketch for me the wiring of your phase indicator bulb please?
Thanks a lot,
elysingh@surf shop.net.ph
sewerzuk Hello, yes the hot leg (black) will be connect to both
Bulb's filament. How about the other two wires coming from the two generator? I will connect it together? Or what?
SkinChanger mathews
My
Can I sent my sketch to your email?
elysingh@surfshop.net.pH
Thanks a lot once again
I sent you a PM :)
typo 5500 watt powermate
Boy those retail units are looking less and less attractive. My 500 watt powermate toasted the windings....thinking surplus military. How hard are they to find?
Not too bad; I've had pretty good luck with my local craigslist and auctions...
what should an 002 or 003 cost on average? Is there so many available that it drives the cost low?
depends on hours and condition, but usually in the $2000-$3000 range...
in single phase mode can they do 120 and 240 simultaneously? I have heard some of the MEPs loose the neutral with two hots.
phooesnax Yes; they can do 120/240 split phase. They can also do 120 only, if you need a lot of 120v current on a single circuit.
Voltage is way less important than the frequency
You rushed through just hiw the 2 generators are specifically wired together. Very confusing. Please reshoot the video and show us just how the wiring hookup is done. Another thing. You really don't show how to hook up the light bulb that is used to sink the generators.
We have used the czcams.com/users/postUgkxOTeIs0vv4_9B5hsmnLsk9r930uDQLu_Y for probably 30 hours with our camper and it’s been great! The noise level is really only noticeable when running the AC and other appliances like the microwave, hair dryer, or coffee pot. It’s not huge like other ones and it has wheels so even at 90lbs, I can move it!
I bet the people camping next to you just simply aDOrE YoU!
So I guess no one is going to ask the question. How can you start an air compressor with no electricity. I mean, if there was electricity, the light bulb would be on, right?
The purpose of the light bulb is to display a mismatch between the voltages produced by the 2 generators. When they are in parallel, the phases are exactly matched and there is no voltage difference…so the light bulb is out. It would be lit if it was connected between a hot leg and neutral, but it is connected to two matched hot legs. It would be the same as if you plugged both sides of the bulb into one prong of a wall outlet. There’s voltage there (when referenced to ground or neutral) but the light doesn’t light because both sides are connected to the same voltage.
@@MattVerley Helping people even after 10 years man. You're a real companion to humanity. I thank you for your explanation and I also thank you for this video. It's the only one I could find on this topic.
Since I have you. I'm going to ask some more questions.
I will be setting up 2 generators in parallel as well. I'm skeptical that the generators will behave the same, 'since they are different models'. If and/or when the phases go out of alignment. What is the worst case scenario?
I don't know how to limit the rpm on one of the generators to match the phases. This is a smaller generator without all the fancy bits and bobs. Do I use some sort of load on one the generators to tune it initially? Like 1 time and then done. Or do I have to continuously apply load to that one generator to get it to match up?
I have a choke, but I was thinking if I can alter the phases with a load. I can buy a variac transformer, run a load, and adjust the load appropriately, and more accurately.
Ultimately I'm going to get some second hand equipment, that's relatively cheap. So if I do mess up. I won't be down in the hole too much.
@@HaloWolf102 Thanks for the compliment :)
As far as the "worst case scenario" question goes; the most likely thing that will happen if you try to parallel with mismatched frequencies and/or voltages is the circuit breaker will trip on one of the generators. If you successfully parallel them and they continuously operate without balancing real and reactive loads (engine RPM and voltage) then you may cause damage to the voltage regulator, slip rings/brushes, or generator windings. At the very least, without a balanced load, you'll be unable to get double the rated power out of them.
In order to successfully parallel two generators, you really need to have fine control over both engine RPM (via the governor) and output voltage (via the voltage regulator/exciter). If you don't have both of those things, it's going to essentially be impossible to balance loads between the two machines. Even if you successfully get them running in parallel, without the ability to individually control engine RPM and output voltage one of the machines will likely pick up too much load or even reverse power the other one...causing excessive current flow and a breaker trip.
I don't get it ! I'm going back to cat videos
WTF?
That guy has got everything tucked into his pants.
Weirdo.
>
I always get a laugh out of the guys who watch my videos, miss the technical part of it, and take away something about my appearance. It takes a special kind of person to worry about some dude's shirt on CZcams.