Using Amp Sims?? Fix This BEFORE Recording Metal Guitars!
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- čas přidán 1. 03. 2023
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Amp sim workflow is extremely important in studio.
As a matter of fact, I'd argue that workflow is even MORE important when working in a simple home studio.
I've been collaborating with home studio owners for almost two decades and there's one thing that I know for 100% certain:
As amazing and convenient as amp sims are...
They hold a whoooooole lot of home studio owners back from getting stuff done in the recording phase.
In this tutorial, I share the #1 issue that so many of us are guilty of when recording heavy guitars with amp sims and exactly what to do about it.
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I downloaded the FREE Midi Drums & Amp Sims Production Checklist, thanks for that. I subbed your channel. Question: I have BIAS FX 2, I have a Focusrite Scarlett Solo audio interface, should I record my guitar dry without BIAS FX 2, then add BIAS FX 2 after it's recorded?
dude i wish my clipping sounded as low key, shizzz until you bare naked the guitars it wasnt too bad in fact maybe even blended. But when mines clips its a cross between a car crash ,pop corn popping and two ducks fu@king , thumbs, subbed
Well if anything this video showed me that i'm doing everything right.
Me too lol
I really love your straightforward answers and advice. As well as your positive attitude towards people recording music at home.
Love it dude!!! I used to over obsess over gain staging & recording volume & you have confirmed what I eventually figured out!!! Your video will help a lot of people!!
Wow! Crazy the difference on a cleaner amp sim setting. Great vid!
I’ve spent more time trying to fix things like this than I’d like to admit. I just sent this video out to a bunch of clients. Thank you.
I know the feeling...glad to hear this video has been helpful. Hopefully it leads to more clients tracking guitars at the proper level!
Your a good person for sharing this info with the world for completely free
great material man. so much to learn and digest.
The example in the video is so obviously understandable!
Thx for making this good tutorial
It’s actually pretty amazing the difference in tone especially the aggressiveness by changing the input level of the guitar to amp. In theory your guitar would come out at full signal to your amp if you plugged straight in. I try and track as close to 0as possible without clipping. I always do a good ol chug test while setting levels.
Great job at explaining things so a layman like me can understand them. One of the best tutorials out there.
My pleasure, glad it was helpful!
Excellent video. I will be doing this with my new Ada Mp1 Amp Sim
One thing I go over on my channel is setting the gain levels so you aren't generating white noise. If you use a spectral analyzer or fabfilter proq3, you can see what happens to your signal when you crank up the level, and also tells you what is the hottest you can the gain before it starts to cause noise. If you set the levels too hot, you are stuck with that white noise, it is embedded and you can't use a lo cut to fix it.
Great video! I do miss your classic "DO NOT forget to click the little bell icon!" Reminds me of my fav movie Ace Ventura! haha
yo seriously thanks this was awesome help
Killer riffs!
Hey Bobby, fantastic video as always, sorry quick noob question, when you say DI track, even with amp sims you need a DI box ? or a Reamp box ? thanks so much. cheers. Ed
Another thing to pays attention, I think, is to avoid clipping in one plugin in the plugin chain, even if the original take doesn't clip.
That can be messy when mastering furrther
such a tasty riff 😁
I record my DI's a little lower in volume, but amp sims will want a certain optimal input level to get the best tone. So I'll add some very subtle compression, just to slightly tame the transients, some RX-De-Hum and then bring the DI level up so that the amp sim is happy, but also paying attention if the DI's output is clipping at all. Once everything looks and sounds good, I'll print the amp sim to an audio track. EQ'ing your DI's before hitting the amp sim can also help you sculpt the tone further.
I still don't understand what the DI signal is
Is it just recorded audio without any processing?
As a separate track?
And the processing should be applied to the same track or somehow separately
Is it really difficult or am I too dumb :D
@@taivaraanta DI stands for "Direct Input". It is simply the clean signal that your audio interface is capturing. You create a mono audio track (to use as a DI) and set it's input to the same input being used by your interface that you have your guitar or bass plugged into. So it will record the clean signal from your instrument. Then you route the output of the DI track to the input of another audio track that has the amp sim you want to use. This method allows you to try out different amp sims and have a few tracks to choose from, or go back and re-record your amp track at any time. You can process the DI signal going into the amp sim track, but if new to this I wouldn't worry about that for now. Once you have a recorded amp sim track, you can just process that as you would in a mix. Hope this helps.
@@davejohnsonmusic Thank you!
Do you have a standard dB level you target for the guitars post amp sim? I try and keep my DI at -18dB (or at least between -18 and -6) but the amp sims seem to crank out between -1 to -3db
Dunno who was playing that, but damn I loved those riffs.
Thank you.
do you have a video about using distortion pedal directly on interface? thanks!
Brother you rock!
If you have already recorded guitar tracks that arent heavy enough with not enough gain and crunch, can you put an amp sim on that track? Every time I try to do it it sounds awful.
me using an Jacksing KV with EMG 81 85 on it. I have a habit that adjust PU height almost touched strings. and I think this make's my DI self-clipped even before it goes into Interface. because even the interface is not clipped, it lookes the same as the sample #2 in video!
Great video - what I have been doing as of recent is tracking guitars into my interface (apollo twin) DI (not clipping) then thru the plugin (on the channel strip) once I have my good tracks I have been bouncing out in place (committing) just like I do my midi drums converting to audio tracks - which I learned to do from watching yourself , Nolly Getgood , Jordan of Hardcore Music
So I'm not hitting the red on any of my daw tracks but my track still looks super thick as if it's clipping? Im recording into a loadbox using a live amp with an overdrive pedal..any ideas why my track might look so thick with no dynamics if I'm not clipping according to daw? I've also tried adjusting my gain and still the track is super thick
I'm always hard paning the lead and rhythm guitar left and right. how can i double track both guitars while maintaining this same setup?
honestly what this video showed me is how little clipping matters when using high gain amps, sure its not ideal BUT its also far from the worst thing you can be doing wrong, even slight clipping is far from the end of the world. fun fact, some bands will record a 3rd and 4th guitar track that is heavily clipped going into the interface and push it way back in the mix, its a trick i mainly do for bass make it as muddy and distorted and gross sounding as possible and push it so far back its barely audible, it just adds an extra layer of flavor to the full mix, you don't hear how shitty it sounds but you feel how much fuller it sounds. if you're reading this try it out, overly clip the signal and make a nasty guitar/bass tone that sounds like distorted sludge and push it like 20-30db under the main guitars or bass and check out the results
Agree, track lower. You can always raise the DI file itself after if it needs a few db. Better safe than sorry.
I agree. Recording hot in the digital domain makes 0% sense.
Just out of curiosity are you printing Mono guitar tracks to stereo for the purpose of the video or do you normally bounce them to stereo once you are ready to commit the tone?
I'll print the two mono tracks to a stereo track in productions where I have a lot going on simply to keep my track count down. Two mono tracks hard panned vs. a stereo track produce the same result. Great question!
My Guitar is clipping right out of itself, just before it reaches my interface. I use this Guitar for 17 years. Never noticed while using high gain amplifiers, but now i'm using DI/Amp sims and it really annoyes me. When i got it, i replaced the stock pu to a dimarzio hi output humbucker. Is there any chance my volume poti hasn't enough head room?
I usually record direct at -10db. In the world of digital there's no point to being close at this point in the chain. Getting close to the red is am analogue thingy from the days of tape.
i'm assuming that analog gears tend to de-emphasize/reduce the low end on the way in and emphasize/increase it on the way out because low frequency content tend to look way hotter on the VU meter (i could be wrong tho lol), whereas digital is like "eh screw it, we're gonna clip your low end while at it".
Yup, you're 100% bang on.
First thing I learned to do. Set Up the gain properly to track. What the hell I even turn down the gain more nowadays.
You're a smart man!
Good video. The song was actually pretty cool. Where can I find the song?
Glad you dig it! It's just a few riffs I threw together for my tutorials. Maybe one day it'll turn into a full song.
Just wanted to comment on the riff! 🤘🤘
Glad you dig it!
Not guilty off haha, I always thought the red light, when I started recording guitars was a warning. I did once with clipping sounds and had a laugh how shitty it was. So let's hope I keep it this way :)
Great vid my friend! But... What's that old movie from the intro called? I NEED to see it lol
Night of the living dead and Carnival Of Souls
@@FrightboxRecording Awesome, thanks!!
@@FrightboxRecording and of course I'm suscribed lol
Hey
I’m using a fluid SRI interface
On the interface, my levels are clipping instantly with the input at zero in instrument mode.
I use cubase. I can lower the input on the input fader. Will that adequately fix the too hot signal from my interface?
Turn the volume knob on your guitar down.
What about this oversampling thing on the Amp sim? x2, x4, x8, etc. Should I pay attention to it? Is more better? What should I record at?
I don't worry about that...it's all gimmick.
Oversampling 2x will upsample your 48khz DI Signal to 96khz (4x will upsample to 192khz) within the plugin to make fold back distortion (also know as aliasing) less obvious. Basically any plugin that creates strong harmonics (high gain amp simps) can benefit from that if the source audio has high frequency content. Oversampling will introduce a bit of latency and taxes your CPU harder through.
So keep it off when monitoring through your amp sim and see if you can hear a difference before printing the tracks.
I’m connecting my guitar to Scarlett then to computer
I get unwanted noise
Help! Why?!?!
In my opinion, this is why you need a Quad Cortex, Kemper, or Helix to record with. It makes recording at the proper levels so much easier.
How so?
@@FrightboxRecording I use a Quad Cortex. All my levels issues are worked out as I build my rigs, presets, and Scenes. I can quickly switch between entire rigs and already know everything is ready to go at the push of button. I often switch between guitar(s) and bass, and when I'm ready to record everything is already ready to go. I don't need to tweak software or mess with my interface. I just found, having QC has made everything more streamlined, and I have less to think about when I hit record. The QC especially comes in handy if you try to record more than one guitar at a time. I can run (theoretically)4 instruments on 4 different rigs. Although, I've never done that with more than 2 guitars and 1 bass at the same time. You can set up scenes to switch everyone's presets at the same time so it goes extra smooth. Effectively one person controlling everyone's pedal board for different sections of a song. I'd highly recommend checking one out.
This defeats the purpose of a D.I. though, because you’re recording a whole rig. This video is about getting your D.I. levels correct, so if or when you send your tracks to a mix engineer for them to re-amp or use a plugin on, they can have a good, clean, and natural D.I. track to work with. You can’t polish a turd.
While we are on the subject of recording guitars with Amp sims. Do you compress DI guitars with compressor before going into Amp sim or just leave it as it is?
I never do. I want what's feeding the sim to be 100% pure.
@@FrightboxRecording Thank You.
And make sure to use the proper impedance/input. It happens sometimes lol.....
I've made this mistake, when I learned a few things about analog recording 20 years ago I got it in my head that you should always have the highest volume possible going without clipping. But on digital home recording its way too easy to overload and lose all dynamics. Any tips for using distortion pedals into an amp sim?
My biggest tip would be to use a DI box to split your signal. Record both the clean DI via the XLR out as well as the quarter inch out coming out of your pedals. You'll end up with two tracks: 1) a clean DI 2) the output of your pedals.
Yeah I was taught from the era of "record it hot or your signal to noise ratio will be terrible" when that has improved so much with the gear we have available now.
you should have explained gain staging with guitars
It has been said a thousand of times too, but new strings and a fully charged 9V battery (if you have active pickups) is so f**cking important !
Question. How do you track DI Guitar Signal in Stereo??? Your Clean Stereo DI Tracks doesn't look like 2 Mono Signals, I record Mono, put the Amp Sim on the Mono Channel and route it into an Stereo Bus. Am I doing sth too old fashioned? I tried to record the Mono Signal on a Stereo Track cause People been saying it doesn't matter these days but I find the Signal fuzzier... thoughts?
Great question! I track them in mono and sometimes move the two mono tracks into a single stereo track to simplify things. It doesn't matter which way you do it, the result is the same.
@@FrightboxRecording ok great, yeah I record the Rythm 2 times, spreading them in 2 Mono Channels, one Amp Sim each, sounded better to me than in 2 Stereo Tracks - above all in the Mix with Drums 👍🏻
what is the best guitar signal it's -6 or -12 and all my track should be on -12 even if i put amp sim another question i use modeler to audio interface then i use amp sim the cab section what the best level should i use -6 or -12
It doesn't matter either way. As long as you're recording at 24-bit, you have more than enough headroom to boos the signal later if need be.
Could u make a guitar editing video? Thanks!!!
Stay tuned! I have one in the works.
ok this might sound like a dumb question but how do you record the raw guitar without the amp sim? for some reason on my daw when i hit record, it records both amp sim + guitar in combination as the output instead of just the clean track. im sure its a really simple setting, but i just cant figure out what its called. thanks to anyone who can help me out!
nevermind i found it its called "enable/disable direct input recording" in case anyone has the same issue!!
@@diiosaodiiosa What DAW are you using?
Whats the band in the sample tracks? They sound pretty sick.
Just something I wrote for my tutorials.
@@FrightboxRecording I think you should release it. It's pretty cool.
Very interesting. But here's a question: what if the guitarist is using a distortion pedal before the AI? Wouldn't that result in a compressed and very level/even soundwave in the DAW anyway?
Using a distortion pedal is not a smart idea. It's best to record the clean DI so you can always change the tone if need be. If you wanna use pedals, split your signal with a DI box to capture both the clean DI AND pedals.
@@FrightboxRecording that doesn't answer my question. Just going by input levels, if one were to use a pedal before the AI (because guitarist wants to use pedal X) wouldn't the waveform look all flat despite not clipping. I always thought that's distortion pedals did i.e. compress the daylights of the signal.
Im no pro at home recording but gon don it I know what right levals is and not to clip
Okay I have a very important question to ask. It's one that has been eating away at me for about (some 10 years or so). For whatever reason EVERY amp sim I've played through has sounded absolutely horrible. They sound nothing like the videos I've watched of other musicians playing through them. I tried just about everything to find a solution online & no one has been able to solve this problem. I've seen others posting about a similar problem but no luck finding out what's causing it. At first I thought it was my interface, so I grabbed a DI from a pretty damn good sounding mix I found online. I figured if I loaded it up on my DAW and slapped the amp sim over it I might get a better result. Nope. It's sounds exactly the same as what my DI sounds like through an amp sim. Muffled, fizzy, almost no distortion and as if the treble was cranked to the max. I thought maybe it's my guitar, so I tried out 2 of my other ones and still the same problem. If it's not my guitar or audio interface, is it my pc? I switched over to my laptop and same thing. I'm basically pulling out my own hair at this point! The audio interface I have is a U-PHORIA UMC202HD that is connected directly to my desktop through a USB cable. I use a regular instrument cable into my audio interface with the INST button pushed in. The speakers I'm using are Philips SPA2210/10 USB Speakers. They're powered by my pc through USB but I have them going into my audio interface using a 1/4 inch headphone adapter (to monitor what I play). Either way it's the same result if I use the speakers built-in my desktop. The amp sims still sound really bad. I've tried to EQ the hell out of everything and tried different IRs and it still sounds really bad. I don't think even god himself would be able to create a decent mix with my cursed setup.
Edit: I Can record a DI and upload it somewhere if need be. I can also record a separate track using the amp sim to better understand just how bad the problem sounds.
I had this problem before I had speakers that could properly represent the full range of frequencies going on.
It always felt "wrong" for me until the point I started with proper full range monitors, because there were things I couldn't hear that may have been affecting the things I could hear, if that makes any sense!
@@racerdeth What doesn't make sense to me about saying "it's your speakers" is why would the same speakers sound bad with amp sims but then sound good when you hear the amp sims played by others on youtube? Is there a difference between amp sim -> my bad speakers, vs. youtuber amp sim -> their recording setup (including their monitors?) -> youtube video -> my bad speakers?
i don't know wtf i adjust PU height almost touched the string in past, maybe stupidly thinking this could make sound more powerful or something lol
Were the guitar tracks double tracked or is it one track recorded in stereo?
The guitars are doubled tracked. I just took both the 2 mono files and dragged them onto a stereo file.
@@FrightboxRecording Thank you very much for replying. I tried to double track as well, but it never sounds as spatially cool as this - any tips?
Great video. Like nº 1.000
(aka 1k)
Video starts at 3:56
Avoiding clipping seems impossible in Reaper. I'll turn the track volume all the way down and it still clips.
Are you sure that you set the faders to adjust the input itself and not the post-FX output level?
Thanks Bobby.
From experience I’ve noticed that some guitars clip even with the interface’s gain knob set at 0. It would be good to know why some pickups are too overdriven and how to solve this issue
What interface do you have?
Most interfaces dont have this problem.
Some Focusrite Scarlett Gen 1 and 2 has this problem.
@@cederickforsberg5840 Currently using a UR12. My guitar works fine, but once I used a “fixed” guitar from a friend and it kept clipping
You could try adjusting the pickup height. The output decreases the farther the pickups are from the srrings.
@@mrcoatsworth429 Thanks. I’ll keep that in mind
I started to use an external preamp to tame the volume of one of my guitars, that was too hot for my UR22MkII. As a bonus, I can now have some "pre-shapping" from the preamp before the interface, and started to use it with every instrument (guitar or bass) that I record.
Have you gotten the "but I use 32 bit float!", excuse yet? Where they haven't grasped the concept and believe their clipped tracks are redeemable?
I make a lot of mistakes but this isn’t one of them. I make sure my interface isn’t clipping, then record with plenty of headroom.
You're a smart man, that's the way to do it.
Ah, c'mon! You say, people are this amateurish? We live in times when "do not clip your recording" is sold to be a hot and hidden secret? Don't know whether to laugh or to cry ...
So, if I understood you right, the issue isn't recording and getting a sound you like and just using that. The issue is IF you want to change to a different tone after you recorded. Doesn't sound that "crucial". Of course, it's good to know, but amp sims have so many other problems, it's sort of weird that this is the video I got recommended because of the title. I'm just getting tired of the clickbait titles. Just title the damn video what it actually is. "Don't clip when tracking metal guitars with amp sim".
de-clipper (dos miracles)
do not stress it too much
I agree, but tracks as bad as these are unsalvageable.
@@FrightboxRecording I do de-clip remasters of albums. Really does a good job (Acon DeClip 2)
all I learned in this video is that I’m doing everything right lol
the thing is that :
BOOST THE GAIN ON THE AMP SIM, NOT THE INTERFACE LEVEL.
But i get it, some interfaces (looking at you, first and second gen Focusrite Scarlett) can't handle hot pickups really well and you have to make sure it doesn't get well above 9 o clock on the interface input level).
In that case, you'd need a DI with a pad.
Eh, I still end up normalizing the DI tracks raising gain on the already-recorded. Still sounds dope. I don't VU meter my guitar input, kind of by ear and visual, shrug, not all situation the same I guess lol. I like lower gain on amp, and TSE808 before amp
@@kenny.m.olsen95 Different strokes for different folks. I'm just curious...why do you normalize the pure DI signal?
@Frightbox Recording Not sure, I can provide my own mixes if you'd like to hear, but I just tested around with and without it. I suppose I liked more volume going into the Amp Sim, without having to turn input knob on Amp Sim up. Gave a thicker fuller sound to me, but I don't know I just liked what sounded good, difference was minor but thicker I guess
Currently suffering the 2nd gen Scarlett pain. Low pitch transients will clip it regardless of how low you kill the level (like stupid low still farts out)
Pray for me/send me better interfaces.
No, it's not something I've done since the days of using our first fostex cassette 4 track recorder when we were like 17.
I respect the hustle, but bro jfc. Be concise.
Who would've thought to make a 10 minute video to say 'dont record in the red'
It's not as straightforward as that for a lot of people.
Why is my guitar sound not clear even without clipping im litterally desperate, gain input on interface check , lowered my input in the plugging check , sounds muffled, EQ TRICK CHECK.
Sounds bad still , SSL 4K-E CHECK. Like I have to dip everything + add FABFILTER EQ for Resonnant ANNOYING Peaks.
I just want a nice 80s tone man , FAT And Lush, 1track Left one track right, CHECK. ADD TO BUS CHECK ROUTE TO FX CHECK . Delay reverb CHECK CHECK Stereo . CHORUS CHECK .
Im not a god damn sound engineer man, CHECK.
I have a Presonus audio interface. I had to set the gain control on the interface to 0, so I didn't have to level anything, just set it to zero. Then set everything else in the amp plugin. That was my solution. I always wondered why every amp sim sounded really bad to me. It helped me.
No track sausage! This isn't Der Wienerschnitzel. 🌭🚫
😂
Oh, that's why my music sounds like ass
And when your guitar is recorded properly but you sound like crap still?
Those riffs are weird af
weird that this isn't basic knowledge
Video starts at 1:25