Trope Talk: Character Deaths
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- It's tragic! It's deep! It's a looming threat to your heroes in every dangerous endeavor! And for some reason it's weirdly hard to convince your audience you really MEAN it!
One example I didn't think to include in the video is Eren Jeagar from the early episodes of Attack On Titan. Sure, this show hadn't shied away from murdering main-ISH characters, and a lot of the early appeal of the show was how brutal, bleak and desolate the reality of the situation was - but when the ACTUAL PROTAGONIST loses an arm and a leg and gets eaten on his first major mission, the resounding response from the fanbase was "ha, bullshit" and lo and behold, he was one confusing superpower away from being fine again. It kind of took a lot of the stakes away from a show that had gotten BIG on how high those stakes were.
At the risk of making the comment section too depressing, comment your favorite well-executed character death and, if you have one, a fakeout death that actually had you convinced!
And bro, if you're reading this, YOU'D BETTER CLICK "SHOW LESS" ON THIS DESCRIPTION BEFORE YOU SPOIL YOURSELF.
EXAMPLES USED, ROUGHLY IN ORDER: InuYasha episode 43, Fairy Tail episode 47, Berserk, assorted X-Men comics, Lazarus pits, Damien Wayne's resurrection, Elektra's resurrection in Netflix's Daredevil, old-school Marvel goodness, Gwen Stacy's clone Joyce Delaney, The Joker, Jean Grey (Phoenix mode), Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, Elfquest, old-school DC goodness, Justice League (Hereafter part 1), Doctor Who (Season 8 Episode 5), Destroy All Humans, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Yu Yu Hakusho, Yu-Gi-Oh!, The Matrix, Ghost In The Shell, Robocop, Fairy Tail episode 244, [SUPER SECRET EXAMPLE], Rurouni Kenshin, Fullmetal Alchemist (all versions)
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SUPER SECRET EXAMPLE: My Hero Academia manga, chapter 76
***
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Following the "if you´re stuck kill a character" advice led me to a severe lack of characters at the beginning of the second chapter.
😁😅😅
It also seems like George R. R. Martin gets stuck a lot :)
The heroes walked through the forest, and then they were attacked by a group of bandits and like most of them die 😂
A severe lack of characters? Leave one alive with ptsd and make him the main character while killing the other one, that way you get him running into a new party and getting flashbacks and being insanely brutal in fights because of it.
That's what i'd do anyway.
Turn it into one of the penultimate chapters instead of the first boom problem solved
"His daughter can't even understand death and keeps asking how Dad is supposed to get any work done if they bury him"
Jesus that's depressing
Yeah, the whole show had some depressing moments. Love it to death though.
@@thearcanehunter2736 it will never top the original for me but god was it a powerful ending
Sad not depressing. Your using the word wrong.
Ugh! My Feelings!
It hurts so much seeing manly men crying at a funeral.
@@quincy9908 OK first it's you're. The sentence is ''You ARE using the word wrong.'' Great start.
Second lets check those definitions shall we :
Sad : feeling or showing sorrow; unhappy
Depressing : causing or resulting in a feeling of miserable dejection
Shock! The op was correct and YOU are wrong. A depressing scene will lead to feeling sad.
I wouldn't normally be so aggressive but people like you get under my skin.
Writing classes: "If you're stuck, kill a character"
Me working on my autobiography:
You okay bud?
Wait. *Response is a month old*
Either this person is dead and commenting, or they're about to die, and both those outcomes are disturbing.
@@someguy1365 or they killed someone
It means Fictional bud
Biography time
There's a rule in comics: Only Uncle Ben and the Wayne's stay dead. It's not quite true, but it's close.
And even sometimes the Waynes come back for alternate timeline deals like that one storyline: “The Gift” where Booster Gold’s wedding present to Batman (long story) was to show him the night his parents died and something something alternate universe... also Thomas Wayne is Batman in Flashpoint
I believe Gwen Stacey and Barry Allen used to be part of that list
They aren't on that list anymore
3 guesses why.
@@shino4242 apparently Jason Todd was also on that list until Under the Red Hood happened
Death by Origin Story is the most permanent form of comic book death.
@@UrpleSquirrel And even then, with multiple universes/earths, and with time-travel always a possibility, even that's flexible.
“Fakeout character death”
*Glares at Loki’s corpse*
Which one?
and body, (The Avengers)
and body, (end of Thor: TDW)
and body (Thor: Ragnarok/technically the middle of Endgame, if you count time travel before he had proper character development from The Avengers)...
We're alllll waiting
no resurrections this time
HAHAHAHHAHA
The Fakeout Death: Loki's Deaths
Loki: *Dies for the millionth time*
Thor: *Looks at Loki's "dead" body*
Loki: ............
Thor: Loki, I know you're alive, I can hear you snickering.
Loki: YOU'RE NO FUN ANYMORE.
that's what the entertainment industry calls "corpsing"
Fool. Thor would cry every time even if he knew it was fake.
Isn't Loki like really dead now tho
Reformed Loki is, but when his "Evil" version stole the Tesseract during the Time Heist in Endgame, he made an alternate timeline for himself. So you could say he is, AND he isn't. It's confusing to explain...
@@onyxalyx6065 schrödingers loki
Remember kids, if your favorite side character gets a lot of screen time and back story in one or two episodes it’s time to say goodbye
to the things we loved and the innocence of youth
How the time seems to fly
From our carefree lives and the solitude and peace we always knew
Of all the places I thought I’d find a RWBY reference
@@sirenianlegend2779 me too
As a danganronpa fan I feel personally attacked
"Certain audiences have gotten so used to fakeout deaths that they almost assume that any and all potential deaths will be corrected within the space of a few minutes."
It's okay you can say Supernatural
Oh supernatural wishes it could match marvel or DC
@@CT--ko8js I'm pretty sure dying at least once is just the hazing ritual for comic book characters
Laughs in soap operas.
Yeaaaah... XD
Is that show still going on?
Any character: I've been thinking of retirement.
Me: Shit.
"I'm gettin' too old for this shit."
Any side character: Shows family pictures for the first time
Me: Shit
Medium: Starts inexplicitly showing a characters backstory.
Me: Shit
Side dude: *acts so charmy and cool talking about his family and how much he wants to help our protagonist*
Same side dude: *starts to cough*
Me: _Shit!_
Narancia just wanted to go to school.
How to convince your audience that the protag is actually dead:
"I promise I'm gonna be okay, [love interest]"
Dreamy Cat that’s actually a good point. Very often when a character affirms their safety they die. Granted I’ve also seen the “I told you so scenes,” but they’re not as common.
[love interest]: You'd better be, since we are new parents! I love you darling, I hope your last week to retirement goes well!
That trope only works for people who aren't the main character. If the main character does it it just means there's the big final battle happening and they *might* get injured.
Ah, yes, "Don't worry, I'll be fine...", AKA the Last Lie.
@@jean-paulaudette9246 Another way to write "The last nail in the coffin":
How to foreshadow the death of a companion character: "Hey [protagonist], I think I wanna go home."
Narancia: **sweats in Italian**
@@WoeUponThee true
Thanks I’m using this
I'm about to retire
“I’m gonna go out there alone. You must stay safe for me. I must do this”
Idea, do a fakeout death and then when the characters are like "Oh God, you're going to be okay. Let's get them to a hospital!" have an arrow fly in out of nowhere and hit them in the neck, actually killing them. I call it the fakeout fakeout
That's horrible...
I love it.
@@Tree_-wp5zn I had completely forgotten about this, thank you for commenting
That's so evil. //takes notes
dude, I am writing a book series right now. this is the prefect for the second book.
spoiler warning for the Starfall series by W. A. Adams. (I have no clue if anyone will end up reading it, as a just in case I will put it here. it's likely it will never be published)
so this series is about the cost of power fantasy. What would happen if some random person was grated a super power by wishing on the starstorm (alternate name for a magic meteor shower). I have powers from teleportation, a dog named burnie who wished to be able to talk, and someone that is just sans but impulsive and quick to rage. All of the powers cost something proportional. the smaller one's you just become a social outcast, the larger ones the death of a family member or best friend.
I have this character who is a healer, but I have had a hard time finding a good introduction for them. it just so happens that the second book has a death just to show how power hungry the killer is. so the guy gets almost killed, the healer makes the wish for his powers, and a unknown force kills the guy. and the healer is powerless.
the question is do I use that death in a part of the series final arc, or leave it as a plot hole? because the plot hole is funny
The only time I remember a fakeout-fakeout-death happening was in Jujutsu Kaisen where a new character was introduced and fleshed out only to die in a ‘probably reversible way’, he was in the opening where he was shown with the main cast whom he hadn’t all met yet so of course he isn’t gonna die, he’s gonna be a side-protagonist right?
No. He fucking dies and stays dead.
Don't be a coward. If you're going to kill a character:
1. Make it real.
2. Make it hurt.
3. Make it change everything. (without destroying the narrative)
Yes crusader father
I think some of the better examples utilizing these guidelines are the character deaths that show up in the various Gundam stories. For me personally, the best example has to be the death of Ryu José from the original Mobile Suit Gundam. Not only was his death impactful, but it hurt so deep with both the characters and the audience. Here we have the jovial, good-natured mentor that has been with the White Base crew at the start of the series and acts as the glue between the unprepared junior officiers (Bright, Oskar, Marker) and the pressed-into-combat civilians (Amuro, Hayato, and Kai) that about halfway through the series very suddenly gets killed in the middle of battle, and each of the crew have to figure out how to come to terms with this. Bright Noa has step up as commander and how to effectively communicate to his subordinates, while Amuro, Hayato, and Kai have to step up their skills as Mobile Suit pilots as loosing Ryu means they are down one less pilot in an already stretched thin crew.
Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans does it well. it spends the entire show with a will they won't they love triangle. They decided on polyamory but the hero dies in the final fight and the two women get married and raise his son. Ends with Kudelia talking about how even though he sacrificed his life to save the lives of millions no one will remember his name.
Yellow fang
Very true
my favorite version of this trope is when the protagonists try to bring back someone and they fail. that hits deep
I can't think of a story that does this that I've watched off the top of my head, but I sure imagine it does.
Buffy - when dawn tried to being back Joyce
@@thearcanehunter2736 fma
@@WaywardVector Ah, how could I not think of that? FMA(B) Is my favorite anime.
Fullmetal Alchemist comes to mind
There was one book I read where the prophesied hero screwed up and died before the first page, and the story was from the perspective of the runaway thief who stumbled on their corpse, stole their stuff, and immediately got thrown into “hey, bad stuff is happening, fix it!”
The thing is, because they aren’t the person who’s supposed to be fixing it, half the characters supposed to be helping them hate them instead, so they have to try to piece together a broken prophecy.
Character shenanigans and an abysmal romance subplot meant I never finished the book, but it was certainly an interesting premise.
Sounds interesting, what's it called?
@@chainsawlightning4515 I think it may have been called “the book of deacon” but I’m not sure.
If you're interested in manga and ok with ecchi, " The Legendary Hero is Dead" has a similar premise.
In the first chapter the hero dies by falling into a pit trap made by a farm boy who was trying to protect his village from demons. The farm boy gets put in the hero's body thanks to the hero's companion, and is forced to finish the quest.
@Shine Martyr a really good book with the same idea is She Who Became The Sun
Very similar to Fox’s tongue and Kirin’s bone.
"like my brother who NEVER LISTEN TO SPOILER WARNINGS!"
I died there XD
Are you sure? I'm not quite convinced
@@kiekebe1341 underrated comment
How to convince the audience that your character is dead:
Have him played by Sean Bean.
Lol this is gold.
Wrong.
Sharpe is still alive.
@@HaloFTW55 Every rule has an exception. If it doesn't, then you should worry.
It worked in Goldeneye.
or 2019 Scarlett Johansson
"It's a terrible day for rain"
"What do you mean? It's not raining."
"Yes... it is"
""... Oh... So it is."
T-T
F for respect Hughes😭
Oh the feels
Hhhhhh noooo
IM SORRY BUT IS THAT FULL METAL ALCHEMIST?!?! :O
“Oh my god! They killed Kenny! You bastards!”
Oh wow yeah, the one show where death is cheaper than DBZ.
Christmas reprieve.
The "Sam and Dean's top 10 deaths" thing killed me lmao, watching that show turned into a waiting game to see how long it took each one to come back. It lost any and all emotional impact really early on.
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato thank you lol
I have one rule for character deaths for just this reason.
Resurrection: not even once.
Dean did eventually die for realsies and didn't come back which was good
ngl i personally didn't mind the death-resurrection cycle with sam and dean, maybe though this was just bc i watched it after it already ended and i knew that they were gonna be in the show till the end, so for me it was less about losing that character and more about seeing what flavour of fucked up they're gonna be when they come back
Was watching this in the living room and my mother came over and said "You know what the best fake-out death was? Jesus"
She’s not wrong!
That is brilliant!
True
TRUTH
Is God a Mary Sue?
How to successfully kill a character when you're stuck:
Establish a character early-on who can resurrect after death (like a lich), then just repeatedly kill him off in increasingly ridiculous ways.
Oh my God, they killed Kenny!
You know, this sounds like the great premise to dramatic series. Or comedy if that's how you want to style it. This poor dude is immortal somehow and just keeps trying to find ways to die, only to be alive and well again by the end of each episode/chapter/arc/whatever.
I think Mermaid Saga (Rumiko Takahashi Manga) had a premise like this actually, though the series itself was short-lived.
@@tendigitnumber Deadpool yo
Epicmonk117, this is actually a funny idea for a story. A character/villain that is constantly killed off by the protagonist(s) just to be resurrected and have to be killed off in even more ridiculous ways. 😂
Jack Harkness, or just the whole episode of Supernatural called “Mystery Spot”
"Remember us. Remember that we once lived."
This was the death of an antagonist and we still cried because most of the time he wasn't directly opposing us, we just got to deal with his actions a hundred years before we got there. Actually, he was at times helpful ("What color was her soul again?") and a generally likable character, just to prove the point of "You can make anyone's death sad if you try". We cry again at the death of his kin. Even sadder is both die at our hands. I wanted to go for the kin because it was more recent but I wanted the quote of their last words and I couldn't remember the name nor "The rains have ceased and we have been graced with another beautiful day. But you are not here to see it.".
What is this from?
@@ikebirchum6591 FFXIV.
I was searching in the comments for a single, "A smile better suits a hero," to make myself sad. But now I'm just sad for a different reason altogether.
@@ikebirchum6591 it's the last words of a major antagonizing force in FFXIV. it also completely throws the warrior of light off balance and fucks them up for the rest of the expansion.
@@ReverendLeRoux Well, that's up to the player to decide, the words clearly move them, but fucking them up theres no evidence for. it just shows us that the "bad guys" were only thus due to their ideal solution being doom for us, and not caring what happens to the puny modern mortals.
Just watched that episode of FMAB. Damn, they really did just follow up his death with a scene of Ed, Al, and Winry talking about how great he is and how they’ll have to figure out a way to thank him when they get back. That hit harder than any drawn-out “nooooo” ever could.
That’s not even touching on the “he retired to the country,” BS Mustang pulled like Hues was a dog and the Elric brothers were two. It’s basically the only time we ever see Mustang try to shelter the brothers but I agree with Hawkeye- that was incredibly cruel. And the guy punch when Ed talks to literally the next person he runs into and puts it together is incredible. Man FMAB literally made me morn the same character twice.
SPOILER ALERT
Shapeshifter: Maybe if I change into his dead best friend he won’t set me on fire as much
Roy Mustang: **PK DIE**
*Proceeds to set on fire 80 times harder*
Mwahaha, a see you are an individual of culture
You know saying spoiler alert doesn’t really help if you don’t say what you’re about to spoil....
Amethyst Sea Eggos PK FIRE
If Roy could somehow cast Finger of Death, he'd be casting it on the skeletal corpse for about 5 days after just to drive the point home
To quote Grif from Red vs Blue:
"Every time. Nobody stays dead. Why doesn't anybody die and stay dead?"
Pro Tip: When that happens, you're inhabiting a fiction.
Unfortunately a certain character/characters have stayed dead to my knowledge.
Me still thinking about Pyrrha Nikos from RWBY season 3
@@roguerazac7071 I thought the RWBY already died since season 3.
RWBY's currently working on S8
Assassination classroom, unfortunately yet predictably, has true death in it. Probably my favorite example.
Every time I rewatch that show I ugly cry at the end.
It is not predictable, it is established.
And that's where it is genius : we KNOW, from the beginning, that this character will die at the end of story. But as long as we get attached to him, we kind of forget it (and the others characters too). And when we are at the maximum attachment to him, when we want to continue with him for a very long time, it brutally comes back : he HAS TO DIE, and the dead line is very close.
But it's not over, no no no. The others characters refuse to let this happened, and managed researchs and a whole plan to save him. And it succeed ! And we want to believe in this success, because we love this character.
But another menace come, and the death is coming back. But we believe that he can survive, and all the pthers characters too, and everyone do the maximum to make him survive.
Buthe can't.
And finally he let (and kind of force) the protagonist to kill him, and he died.
I would not named this "predictable".
@@blade7y156 Yeah exactly, it's not predictable if they literally tell you
[Bojack Horseman spoilers]
Sarah Lynn's death is one of the best I've ever witnessed. It isn't explicitly shown but you understand what's going on, and they keep bringing up her and the consequences of her death all the way until the penultimate episode, 3 seasons later. Not to mention, you continue to learn additional circumstances surrounding it for a long time as well. Totally harrowing but it's amazingly done.
"Nightcrawler escaped death by teleporting *back to life* "
Nightcrawler: "I don't need to put up with this, I'm _LEAVING_ :BAMF:"
I'd defend that nonsense, but comics in general have a bad habit of this, so I wont.
Is he immortal?
Chrono-Glitch WaterLily it seems he can just opt out of the afterlife so, probably? I guess?
X men has an almost comical habit of bringing back dead characters, you can probably count on one hand the number of X men that have stayed dead. I think Charles Xavier put it best “ In mutant heaven there are no pearly gates, but instead revolving doors.”
In the Negima manga, there's a point where a bunch of people are erased from existence, one wills himself back.
Note to self: Have an antagonist swap teleporters with disintergrators in a sci-fi setting at some point.
Have you watched the Young Justice episode: failsafe?
Psychronia
Minor heroes: let us go you fiend!
Villain:....okay
H:....wait....really?
V: Yeah, go ahead, teleportater's right there.
H: wow....uh....thanks
*heroes go to teleporter and activate it*
*immediately gets disintegrated*
Random henchman: Didn't you replace the teleporters with disintigrators a week ago?
Villain *smiles in troll* Yes...yes I did...
I was thinking more along the lines of...
Hero's Allies: We'll regroup with you at X. Best of luck. *uses teleporter*
Days later...
Hero: Why aren't my friends here yet!?
Villain: Who, them? I switched their teleporters with disintergrators ages ago. They died right in front of you and nobody ever realized.
I could see this easily and hilariously backfiring when the villain forgets about the switch
New addition to the rules for evil overlords: swap name signs on the incinerator and the teleporter, and make sure all staff know (or at least those I consider worth keeping alive for now)
10:54
"Everyone in the military is shaken"
yup
_absolutely everyone_ in that scene was emotionally devastated =P
not a single person at the funeral of maes hughes was not emotionally moved
look i didnt say what they were moved to do
Every human in the military was heartbroken.
Negative feelings were felt by everyone there, yes.
What negative feelings by each person? Well, uh…
I also loved that scene where deku is near death apologizing to his mom and all might for not being strong enough to be a true hero... likely one of my favorite episodes
Yeah but deku isn't gonna die lmao
Oh was this what she was talking about
@@xjmasterx0907 the green and red outline didn't give it away? It was the muscular scene to be specific.
Did something similar.
Protagonist is sure that she's about to die. The world is fading and she's bleeding, laying on the ground. And she spends her time fighting to stay alive as she apologizes to her sister and cousins for not being strong enough, and making them promise to be strong, even without her.
Protagonist wakes up in her bed but still made me tear up writing it. Not crying, but tears.
Thank god I wasn't the only one who thought that was the scene she was talking about
How to convince a character is dead:
1. Kill it
2. Never shows up again
3. *Confused audience noises*
Mine is
1.Have them survive
2.Kill them a page later anyways
Jiraiya
@@potatogaming7044 Yes, I am!
@@potatogaming7044 a fortune teller from Egypt wants to have a talk with you
@@potatogaming7044 avdol moment
You could make an "unrealistic" real death on purpose, so that it slowly dawns on the audience that no, that character ISN'T alive, and won't suddenly become alive. It could be a creeping realization instead of an instant point of DRAMA. Um. Yeah.
Yeah, much like how in real life, you don't believe it until it's staring your right in the face and even then, it takes time to sink in fully.
Like RWBY
Or the death of Tasha Yar in Star trek: The next generation
I hate it when the realization is delayed because then i don't feel like i processed it well and get mad that when i should have been sad i was skeptical.... Shit actually that parallels almost all of the death I've experienced irl..
I wish more stories did that, cuz that would be great.
advol: dies
avdol: hah it bullet actually scaped my fore head
avdol later: dies
me: you ARE coming back right?
His death was so sudden and silent in the anime that I still haven't registered it. Died almost instantly without a fight.
@@annana6098 I Heard that his First Death was supposed to be real but fans really wanted him back so they brought him back only to kill him again
Avdol: yes I AM
When you think about it, Avdol might still be alive. He hasn’t died, just disappeared from existence.
@@amaracaroline9482 Without his forearms. And a pint of his blood.
Some tips on how to use character death; Don't foreshadow it, do it to a character that it makes sense to die logically, not thematically, and let the other characters be firced to move on, and doubt the character's death as much as the audience.
Treat it like real life.
Unexpected, happens to anyone, irreversible.
yeah tho inversely, just because somethings realistic, doesn't mean it will gel well in a fictional story due to unlike real life, the creator does have all the answers, so sometimes it feek gratuitous or a betreyal of trust.
it's the same reason a series doesn't show every single time a character goes to the bathroom or wake up in the morning. on a meta narrative level, you assume that if a story repeatedly showed you something like that, it has a point.
if the story ends with that going nowhere and was just done, just cause, it'd piss a lot of people off.
it's realistic? yeah. but what do we gain from it being there and what do we lose if its not? if there isn't much backing it then maybe it's fine to leave a few of those scenes out
tho you're giving tips not steadfast rules.
@@theradionicrevival8068 Right, if it won't work with your story, don't do it. Phineas and Ferb would never be the same if Ferb died one episode and never came back, but a show like Adventure Time is only made better by finn's lost arm being permanent.
I remember when I died...
It was pretty emotional.
Remember when your -girl- _"friend"_ died? Yea, Clone Wars didn't pull shit on your arc with Maul...
I'm waiting for darth vader to comment
tell me about it
Well you could say that you're still alive.
From a certain point of view.
+Mecha Leo He passed fully into the Force during Heir to the Empire. He's dead.
So since we all die....
*Are we the trope?*
Don't you go breaking the 4th wall now. This is real life.....
There was a previous comment by Obi-Wan. Maybe you should ask him.
Gamer Queen DUN DUN DAAA
Fucking plot twist
Holy.....why are you.messing with my HEAD!
I had something very strange happen with character death. I have only killed like, four characters that I remember. Two were the same story. No heroes, and all but one were meant to feel cathartic. Let’s talk about the one.
So I responded to this writing prompt on Reddit. Something along these lines: “I won’t deny that I’m evil, maybe even irredeemable. But I find harming a child completely deplorable.”
There’s basically only four characters. One is our evil protagonist. Another is the child, who spends most of the story hiding under the protagonist’s cloak. The third is the antagonist, and the fourth is already dead when the story begins.
What happened was the protagonist, antagonist, and the dead character worked together in various villainous schemes. The one who dies had multiple children, and was being hunted. He entrusted his accomplices with taking care of them. The story starts a few days after he died, and the kick of is that the antagonist intended to vivisect one of his (non-human btw) children for experimentation. The protagonist argues with her and we see how much he cared about the dead character. The story ends with the implied death of the antagonist.
But later on, I wrote more short stories involving these characters, before the one died. I developed him more, wrote interactions between him and the protagonist, how much he loved his kids and trusted his friends, etc. So now, I’m attached to this character *whose whole purpose was to die*. I went backwards. I guess that means I did a good job?
Start your story earlier, done
I mean, I've got a couple of stories in my head that I've technically started towards the end; none of them have character deaths yet but do have a whole bunch of other horrible things happening to the main characters and having to struggle through the aftermaths. When I actually get around to writing these things down, I'll have to start with the scenes I came up with first (because that's what I have) and then connect them together and write the stuff that leads up to those scenes...and I already know that when I start writing the "prequel" parts, I'll have a lot of dramatic irony in my head that I'll have to try and keep from coloring the story too much.
"That is definitely the Doctor, and he is definitely dead."
Though in this case since the Doctor has plot armor made of light-years-thick adamantium, we were clearly just meant to wonder how the show was going to get out of such an emphatically confirmed death.
Hey now there’s a backup living with Donna so…
They can perma-kill him now!
Avdol : *Dies
Also Avdol : *Dies again
Works the same with Loki
*"the bullet grazed me"*
ikr? I was like: "They wouldn't have brought him back just to kill him again, right? ...Right?!"
Araki to Avdol: I'm going to kill you... and then kill you again
@@rockhistoria2537 snapcube reference appreciated
JJ Abrams should've watched this video.
'Somehow Palpatine has returned'
When you're so set on just recreating The Return of the Jedi that you literally bring back a villain who's been dead for 30 years without explanation in the damn opening text crawl. Also the endless fake-death-resurrection spinning wheel that is the entire climax of the story. When you do it enough many times in ten minutes it just gets repetitive as hell.
No one's ever really gone.
He did come back in Legends tho
@@CesarAnthony001 This is basically a mix of the sheer screeching hypocrisy of the dedicated fanbase and the blissful ignorance of casual fans.
Nothing *at all* in the sequels (save freezing blaster bolts and reaching across space and time) hadn't appeared and/or been done to a much, MUCH more ludicrous scale in books that a majority of the ridiculous, pitiful 'hardcore fans' adored.
Many things in the sequel trilogy were actually taken from the books and done much, MUCH better (you know about Legends, take your pick there).
But if you weren't aware of them to begin with, or if you were just a bad person, then they could feel like they smacked you in the face from nowhere.
@@Pyre Yeah, it's kinda sad how *badly* they did a Dark Empire reboot. Like, it was hated by most fans who knew the source material, why do it again? They also have the audacity to go, 'We didn't have enough material from the EU'
What about the “Character Revival” trope, where the dead character, you know, comes back to life. You have to justify why you killed the character, why bring them back, how did you bring them back and why can’t you bring any other dead character back in the same way
Man, Hughes' death still brings a tear to my eye, his burial scene is something that has burnt a mark on my soul. it's been years since I watched fma and it still hurts watching that scene.
I remember a character dying in an old anime I watched, and I was so used to characters not actually dying that I spent the rest of the show waiting for him to come back. And he never did. When the show ended, I about bawled my eyes out because he finally actually died to me. It was terrible, but great at the same time.
I did that with a book. I did not accept the character's death until the very end, and then I finally cried for her.
Although, now the author has written a sequel, so...
Yeah, I have a very unpopular opinion that a show with NO death at all is kinda boring. But only for certain stories. If it's say, something like Reck-It Ralph, it's a thing meant for kids that can also be enjoyed by adults, so it's perfectly okay for there to be no death or anything. I mean, It's Disney so it's gonna happen anyway, but it could've done just as well without.
I'm talking about Dramatic stories like a Shonen or maybe even some form of fanfic retelling of an existing story, like The Elder Scrolls has plenty of fanfics that perfectly encaptualte the Elder Scrolls space and perfectly retells the stories of the games, and even adds to it with well written OC's to act as companions to our MC. In stories like those, with big fights and high stakes, I personally can't connect if no one dies. I mean that as in, if you go the whole way refusing to kill anyone, even in situations where they logically should, and even from a story perspective, it would work perfectly and make sense if you did kill them in this moment, then it ruins the drama for me and causes everything to end up predictable because it has just proven that the author is afraid of making the stakes that high. I tend to enjoy downer and bittersweet endings because I can't predict them, their so rare that they're never obvious so when it happens I find it awesome, vs the usual dime a dozen happy ending where the good guys win. If you kill off a main or central character, it gives you the feeling of "oh God they can actually die..." and thus it leaves you in suspense that maybe the hero might not make it, and when they do you feel relieved and suddenly the happy ending feels good, way better than it otherwis would've been.
A perfect example of the best death in fiction, in my opinion is JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 1: Phantom Blood. Spoilers ahead so stop reading this comment now if you care;
*[FINAL SPOILER WARNING]*
At the very end of Part 1, our main hero, Jonathan Joestar, nicknamed JoJo, has finally done it. He beat the villain, his adoptive brother, Dio Brando, he married the love of his life, and he's on a cruise ship to America to celebrate his honeymoon. Dio's minions are all dead and gone, and Dio himself is dead. The End. Or is it? Suddenly, the cruise ship is infected and turned into Zombies thanks to one of Dio's minions who Jonathan never killed, and Dio himself announces that he is, in fact, alive and ready to kill. Jonathan gets mortally wounded thanks to a surprise attack and the rest of the episode is just a downhill slope of JoJo trying to figure out how to win. Before realizing that he can't. But instead of crumbling, he had rendered the ship useless as he stopped the main piston with the last of his ability and so thus the engines are now blown, and the boat will now explode. Instead of a triumphant heroic sacrifice, JoJo gathers his nerves, gathers his strength, and then... he hugs Dio. Proclaiming that despite all of the evil he committed, he still thinks of Dio as his brother and even in death holds no ill will, he's commited to trapping both himself and Dio in the bottom of the ocean under the wreckage of a destroyed cruise ship. Our final scene of Jonathan is Dio desperately trying to appeal to Jonathan into making him let go only to realize, in a shockingly distraught tone for Dio, that it's too late, he's dead, one final top-down panning shot of his corpse, and a ship finally exploding, and Part 1 is over, but there's still hope because JoJo's love interest, Erina, who managed to escape the ship exlosion and is now floating across the ocean Titanic style, reveals that she was pregnant, so the series ain't over yet folks.
That scene was so emotional and powerful, and so unexpected that it instantly caused the show's status to go from something I enjoy watching, to something I LOVE watching, JoJo's death elevated my opinion of the show and made me excited to tune in to the next season. My overall point is that character deaths are important for true drama, if you skirt away from it, you're essentially ruining the drama by inadvertently proclaiming that your hero can't die and so thus there's no reason to be invested in this final big fight scene because you already know the outcome, so why bother anymore? It's just not suspenseful anymore to me, so I stop watching.
TL;DR: I'm a masochist and I love bittersweet endings and character death.
@@ultimatepunster5850 ngl spongebob is kinda boring, I'd kill Pearl
Old show, called Ronin Warriors in its dub. One of the most powerful minion villains menaces the heroes multiple times, is defeated, is saved by the helpful old mystic, takes on the role of the mystic after *he* dies. Becomes good, devoted friends with the heroes.
Makes it almost to the final battle, when he's shown that to save the character they *absolutely have to save* , he has to invoke his old scary power again. Does it, kicks ass, gets *horrifically* hurt for a relatively bloodless show.
And falls facedown into a shallow stream after. And does not get up again.
Spoiler alert for Artemis Fowl!
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Me with Root’s death. Until TLG ended, I was convinced he was coming back. Especially when Opal killed her younger self and everything in the intervening years poofed back into existence. Root should have too-change my mind.
"You can't kill off a protagonist"
*Hirohiko Araki would like to know your location*
Allow HIROHIKO ARAKI to use Location?
Kaede
Hirohiko Araki forgot your location.
Resend?
Since he did it at the end of the first arc, he basically pulled the gloves off & has been fighting bare-knuckle ever since. I’ve only seen the first 3 seasons of the anime (about to start Diamond is Unbreakable), but so far the ratio is roughly 3 fake-outs : 7 real deaths.
@@Ajehy hehehe, get in for a world of hurt
When you talked about the fakeout character death, I immediately thought about the scheme in Clone Wars where Obi-Wan "dies", Anakin's like "oh no", and then the Jedi reveal that he's actually not dead, which leads to Anakin raging
I feel that works though, as we follow Obi-Wan's perspective, so we're in on it.
@@lukeroberson2115 the fake out isn’t designed for us, but for the characters, which changes the emotional impact from shock to dread. We know the other characters will find out Obi-Wans alive, we know how they will (probably) react, we know it won’t be good. It’s way stronger because of that
Fakeouts and tricks are better than revivals...I hate people coming back from dead randomly if it's not been established that the can prior and some plot device can do that now
Like, we know Obi-Wan isn’t supposed to die *yet.* Since, you know, he dies in episode 4. So it’s not necessarily a shock for the audience that he’s still alive.
Wow, that sounds like a fakeout death that's not just a waste of everyone's time. I knew there had to be one somewhere.
7:50 "hmmm, I havent watched this trope talk in a long time I wonder if this is a series I know now-"
*shows huge reddish character fighting a smaller green character protecting somebody*
"Hes a fast thinker in combat but all he could think of was apologizing to his mentor and mother"
oh its mha, the series I refused to watch for the longest time which I now love. huh.
I actually thought she was referencing the Attack on Titan Season 2 Finale.
I thought it was Demon Slayer Mugen Train.
she said the part of the show hadn't been animated yet though??
@@yourmotherisaseal5239 I can imagine that in 2017 MHA was pretty shallow in seasons. Came out in 2016 so I'm assuming that episode wasn't out just yet.
The fourth Percy Jackson book also did the fake out death thing, when Percy landed on Calypso's Island after blowing up Mt St Helen, he ended up crashing his own funeral, but we didn't know that the camp thought that he was dead until later becuase that whole book is told through Percy's perspective
I found 2 demigods so far
That scene was hilarious
Leo did the very same thing in the final book of Heroes of Olympus, except this time he blew up Gaia
@@thegloriouskingkronk8422 yeah! I made this comment before I'd read that part otherwise I would've included it. Also why did it happen in an explosion both times?
@@whyareallmynamestaken1382 Likely because explosions, deadly as they are in real life, are the easiest thing for characters to have fakeout deaths in because you don't expect to find a body. And if there's no body, the character's not dead.
@@thegloriouskingkronk8422 ok yeah that makes sense
*reading Magnus Chase*
Me: Lmao we are only 50 pages in! He ain't dead
*a few moments later*
Me: oh shit nvm fam he dead
Ikr lol. I was kinda shaken when that happened, then I read the next paragraph
@@lightknight6749 read the books they are soooo good
@@tbeedi I have read them, I just wrote incorrectly for my answer before . I was saying how when I first picked up the book it was interesting
@@lightknight6749 ohhhhhhhh lmao. Anyways those books 👌
@@tbeedi those books are awesome and I like the fact that the main character is a healer. Healers are underrated
7:54 That has *GOT* to be My Hero Academia. Big muscly dude is just Muscular and he's fighting Deku, who's protecting Kota. The green is obvy and u kind of know BNHA
Yeah that was pretty lit...
I kind of dropped the story after the episode of the festival used to try repairing the time power girl’s childhood. Is picking it back up worth it?
@@kintamas4425 the current arc of the anime is super boring but after that it gets a lot better.
I didn't like that scene that much. The problem I have with Deku is that he became dumb since he has his quirk. His only solution in every fight is '' I AM GOING TO PUNCH HARDER''.
@@mikaelste-marie1275 You can't really blame him. Most of his childhood is just wanting to be like All Might, almost literal. Before Shoot Style, he only uses his arms and uses AM's super moves
@@rayzersun6705(Not a fan of MHA, but you do you) Even his Shoot style isn't that different from all might. The arc after that, (I think the Overall arc), his new fighting style didn't help him. He still beat the villain by punching him harder. I think I will like more the story if this aspect of Deku was critize for acting like All-Might while having a fraction of his overall power by others heroes or classmates. At least , that will give him a struggle other than being the best like no ever was.
Some of my favorite character deaths come from JJBA parts five and seven. After this point there will be spoilers specifically for part 5.
I really love how the Abbachio and Narancia deaths are executed, because it doesn’t feel like it was death for plot. There is a great video about how Hirohiko Araki improved his writing style with deaths between part one and part five.
Jojo's a strange beast.
Sometimes it was really strict with the realities of death, and sometimes characters literally just came back from Heaven because it "wasn't their time".
@@Mayeur000Donz yeah, okuyasu def could've been handled better
@@Mayeur000Donz It's called a BIZARRE Adventure for a reason
I feel like narancias death wasn’t very impactful
Gotta hand it to Red for her wonderful illustrations. Plus this brilliant line:
"Any last words?"
"How about 'I think the f--k not!'"
11/10 would watch a show if Red wrote it
eh
I mean there's a comic she does now.....
@Nikki the Creator Yep. The website is comicaurora.com
I always enjoyed the XKCD version of this.
"Any last words?"
"Apollo retroreflectors."
Can you give me a time stamp of the moment?
*Writing Teachers:* "If you're stuck, kill a character."
*Me:* _Looks at Dark Souls_
ironically, fairy tail is one of the reasons i take writing character deaths so seriously. by the time the manga ended, it had gotten to the point where even the characters looked mildly annoyed by the fakeouts. and it was boring. there wasn't any tension. we know they're going to live and everything will be okay, but the story was still trying to convince us that that was where the drama was. it was just... pointless. so i decided that i won't ever change my mind about a character death without a solid reason. fan backlash isn't good enough - if i kill your fave and you're upset, sucks to suck. corpses gonna corpse.
You a real one.
I dunno if I'd kill people that often in my own work, but I give a solemn oath that if the framing says they're dead, they're dead.
I totally thought that Kamina was gonna come back but getting over his death allowed Simon to become a way cooler character
I was so used to fakeout deaths from certain animated movies that the one in How to Train Your Dragon 2 almost seemed like a fakeout until...well, yeah. Kudos to that movie for following through.
AderuMoro still sad about that one
That was honestly one of the best written deaths I have ever seen in an animated movie.
I left the theater with my sis like, "WHOA, THEY ACTUALLY DID IT"
Thx for opening that closed wound again T-T
yeah, for once we get a sequel that was actually really good
“Super advanced tech or even a little bit advanced tech will bring back a character no problem.”
Major Von Stroheim: ... German science... is the greatest in the world.
It's hard explaining to my family one of my favorite characters is a nazi.
To be fair he did die at the end. Off-screen, but Stalingrad became his cold grave.
@@YataTheFifteenth Or he was moved to a better place where people can be like "Wow, that guy was a robot Nazi* and continue on.
@@weebalo_ or that. Come on at least make his death sound a bit poetic will ya.
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbrrackkcaaaaa!!!!!!!!! moruka! German science is the greatest in the world!
Maes’ death is probably one of the most well-done deaths I have seen in anime, hell, probably in all of fiction. I’m not even the biggest fan of FMA but seeing how everybody close to Maes was affected by his death was incredibly impactful. One of the best executed (no pun intended) character deaths I’ve ever seen.
I like how the Dresden files does this. At the end of one of the books, the main character is shot through the chest and falls over the side of his boat into Lake Superior. The next book has him as a full on ghost trying to help his loved ones as they try to protect Chicago without him. He is brought back at the end, but he also actually full on dies.
6:27 "My dog isn't going to know what happened to me..."
Congrats, as a blink-and-you-miss-it throwaway gag, you have made one of the saddest final thoughts I've ever read.
Emma TriesToSmile All too true. Nobody can explain what happened to your pet, so they will never understand that you died elsewhere and are never coming back.
...and now I’m thinking about Red Dog... and I’m sad.
"If you're stuck for ideas, kill a character."
There's an exoteric meaning to this statement and and esoteric one.
Ostensibly, it is what it says: kill. a. Character.
But if you remember that a character isn't a person, you understand that, godlike entity within your own story though you may be, you *can't* kill them because they never existed to begin with.
To kill a character in this sense is to kill your idea of them. Say you have a protagonist, but it turns out he was hiding something in a way that develops his character contrary to all previous expectations. Your initial perspective on him is now "dead" but a new perspective has been "born" to take it's place.
So put simply, what the saying really means is, if you're stuck for new ideas, discard the ones you already have. Approach your own work without judgement and you'll find a curious thing happens.
You can't help coming up with ideas.
OwO
Super educational and well thought out comment... the first reply is a weeby meme, gotta love the internet
@NihilisticEntropy To be fair, that was mostly a pacing thing. She was always ruthlessly pragmatic and had about the same sense of justice as a Hellenic Fury, but they tried squeezing it into a period of time far too short to work. Remember how many times she had suggested acts most would consider rash or cruel, to be called out by Tyrion. Remember how she put getting an edge in her civil war by getting The North *above* stopping the White Walkers, literally an existential and external threat threatening her as much as her foes, but that she only agreed to commit forces to dealing with if Jon Snow knelt. Remember that even early on she had considered the "I have dragons, I will burn it" option to King's Landing, uncaring as to potential civilian casualties.
The action was in character, but botched by less than ideal writing. She was *never* the paragon some make her out to be. Merely charismatic enough to seem it.
@NihilisticEntropy My bad, I'm far less knowledgeable about the book, though my point still holds up about the writing not exactly being the *best* for that part.. :p
I wish some authors would take this advice. I seen so many authors kill off characters just because they didnt know what to do with them. One example is warrior cat series. They literally faked the death of one of the main character they couldn't think for power for the characters. They brought back the character only to kill her off in the end.
Tbh I did NOT believe in Loki’s death, like at all, I was expecting him to come back while I was watching endgame lmao
"People die when they're killed"
-Shiro Emiya (FSN)
The Fate System/Throne of Heroes/Alaya : Bet
(That’s cute) Hold my Dragonballs and watch this!
"It's a terrible day for rain," Colonel Roy Mustang, 1914
Timothy White :’((
Feels💔
I'm thinking this too hard, but I think there's a subtextual meaning to this statement foreshadowing Mustang's quest for revenge and the scale of how badly he wants it. Mustang can't use flame alchemy well during the rain and seeing the day when they buried Hughes was a rainy day, the narrative delays Mustang's quest for revenge.
@@aegis_knight it was a sunny day when they buried Hughes. Mustang was crying and trying not to acknowledge it. Hawkeye goes along with it by saying "so it is" as a way of showing care and emotional support.
"it's a terrible day to have eyes" -quote attributed to me browsing reddit
(I had to say that, it just seemed to work)
I love writing character deaths that absolutely change a character. Like in the book I'm writing my main hero's twin brother dies and it 's something that spirals her into this morally-grey "ill kill anyone who gets in my way" mindset, that is hell bent on saving people but also revenge making her blatantly ignore the lives she's trying to save.
I may have done a copy of thatone spongebob meme... "WRITE THAT DOWN, WRITE THAT DOWN"
Had a thing for my stories established for my stories that make it easier to tell. While souls exist, there are some caveats:
- memory wiping, whether lethal or not, is ALWAYS final. If there is someone there, they are a different person.
- reincarnation is not the same person. To the point one character knew that restarting his own life would absolutely be the same as killing him, and he was COUNTING on it. And it was final. The next incarnation is very much a different person.
- copies are not the same person. A character finding a duplicate of their dead mother very much acknowledges that this is not her.
- the duplicates are still people. Just not the same person. The duplicate lived her last moments wondering why her son was killing her, and that's that. He has to live with the fact he inflicted that on someone
One character had to kill thousands of what were basically copies of himself to survive, and yeah, he's the original, but he doesn't care. He still murdered thousands of people, none of whom were in that situation voluntarily.
The only character i have who can cheat death is someone where that is expected, and the only reason it hasn't driven him insane is because he doesn't have enough empathy to actually care about anyone who he would outlive. When he starts actually showing he's afraid, it's a sign that he knows this death is the real thing. It's also established he WILL be permanently killed because he's met a later incarnation of himself, who he described as "disappointing. But given how high i set the bar, that was inevitable"
One character does find a way to revive people, and the method being taken away forever before he can use it on anyone is supposed to break him further
That one guy in Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood literally shocked me. THat is an example of a good, convincing death scene. It transformed the narrative and even gave the characters a boost for what they were trying to do.
FMA:B also had a really good death fake out.
Which one guy?
Snowshower's Show I would assume Hughes
@@nevermore7285 yeah I'd guess so.
I was actually convinced at first that Hughes couldn't be dead, cause he felt like too much of a main character. Took a while for me to understand that FMAB was playing by different rules than I was used to.
I feel like there's a book series out there where at the end of vol. 1 the protagonist seemingly dies.
And vol. 2 starts with "Hey you, you're finally awake."
"You were trying to cross the border, right?"
"Fucking hell Dave, this is the 3rd time this week"
@NotYourGreatestPlan Skyrim bud
Avatar books 2 to 3? But we know he never dies
FF8 disc 1 ending leading up to Disc 2 is this
I’m currently writing a story where there’s a character designed to be extremely likable in the sitcom-y introduction, but shortly after their first major plot point, they’re brutally murdered by the main villain, which is where the real story starts.
hope it's going well!
When Avdol died the second time, I thought we were being faked out and that he was fine but... why Araki...
Most of the time in jojo you know a hero died if you see their soul go to heaven. Not always, but it's a good indicator they're really gone. Having a body isn't enough since we're dealing with a world where you can heal from having your body mangled.
One of my favorite comics quotes is "the only people to stay dead in comics is uncle Ben, Jason Todd and gwen stacey."
I mean Jason Is back now so.....
@@gennybaratta2460 so is gwen, that's kind of the irony of the quote
Uncle Ben never came back but there were a lot of times where Peter got to see him again in other dimensions and shit,so yea
r/agedlikemilk
Actualy lovers and relatives only ever die truely without turning up evil again, if your Spiderman. . . Everyone else in Comics has thought dead people of their past come back . . . Excluding spidey
I have a love-hate relationship with fake deaths...it always seems like such a cop out but my favorite character comes back as a result! I am pathetic.
Same, I always feel simultaneously like garbage for cheering, cause it usually takes away from the character development, and great, cause yay my baby is back!
I wish the fake death trope would explore the characters' reactions to the fake death as a means of further development. Like "I've mourned and grown but now you're back and I'm happy but have these complex emotions that I can't really explain but they are valid." If that makes any sense.
A great example of this is in Criminal Minds, when Emily Prentiss fakes her death to get someone off her back. Spencer Reid was absolutely devastated, and when she came back, he was initially happy, but then he was actually angry at her and JJ for hiding it from him, and he had trouble working with them.
And this is a flaw Dragonball Z has that everyone seems to ignore.
Yeah I just assume that it's just supposed to show how THEY react. Like with Fairy Tail in that scene I was like: "Yeah they always handle it better than thi,s they're not even trying, it's just so Doranbolt can save them and repay them for Tenrou so he'll FINALLY move on." At least I think that was the point. That's how I find the point in most fakeouts I mean. Sometimes it helps character development too in the "this will never happen again" way. I like that one, I think FT actually got that one right.
As for me, that's not a love-hate relationship. It's pure unadulterated hatred. A dead character should remain dead.
That's why I used to like GoT so much, they would'nt shy away from killing a character, even in the middle of his character arc. The resurrection of Jon Snow was very painful to me and it killed the show for me.
If you don't want one of your characters to die, then don't kill him in the first place...
Okay but am I the only one who loves the self sacrifice trope? It gets me so emotional and could also strengthen character’s bonds.
Ace and Whitebeard's death was one of my favorite and saddest deaths from anime. Luffy almost gave up on his dream and adventure if not for Jinbei's reassurance.
THE ONE PIECE IS REAL
(Can we get much higher?)
Viking burial, that usually means they are actually dead.
Maybe viking funerals were originally instituted just to make sure that this guy is actually well and truly dead.
What if he's not dead?
@@martinprados8932 Then he either wakes up when the flames touch him, or he is now.
Except Superman. In the Leigon of Superheroes, he was killed and they shot his body into the sun. I don't think i need to finish the story.
@@christiancrusader9374 For Superman, the sun isn't fire, it's a healthy snack. Doesn't count as viking burial :p
Villain: "You know what this is like? It's like those Shounen Anime's I love. Now I'm going to give you a whole speech on something evil, and then I'm going to find some absurd and convoluted way to kill you, and you'll find an equally convoluted way to come back to life."
Hero: "Sounds good to me."
Villain: "Well this ain't that kind of show."
Villain: *Simply shoots hero directly in the face.*
Supporting Cast: "NOOOOOOO!"
Nice kingsman quote!
This is literally exactly what happens in Kingsman, THEN THEY WENT AND BROUGHT HIM BACK FOR THE SEQUEL!
That being said, there is probably no better way to convincingly fake kill a character then for him not to come back until a sequel.
Hero: *comes back* ow that hurts, wait how am I alive?
Villain: dang it
Would ahve been great in highlander...
*five minutes later*
Hero:"That really hurts you know"
New Hero defeats Villain:
Villain: Is this the part when you boast about the Power of friendship giving you strength for revenge?
New Hero: This isn't that type of anime. **New Hero finished off Villain**
Villain's last thought before he dies: Perfect
RotJ; kills Palpatine and it actually seems final.
Tros: THat's wHerE YOu'rE WrOng, kid
my favorite way to handle that trope is to make a central character, who was very close to the now-deceased character, and who is generally the stoic more leading type, go absolutely haywire and lose their shit, and convince themselves they're coming back or not really dead and instead of just letting that be fixed so quickly as in most media, let the character continue to act this way until the very moment when they realize in beliving it, they have driven away everyone else who could help them. on one hand, now that character has been removed from the plot and needs a reason to come back, which could be that the other characters cant handle it alone, and begrudingly come back only to realize they've had ✨character development✨ and is willing to stop pushing everyone away.
i love it alot because it shows even the most stoic, resilient, stubborn characters, which are all traits that can be used to help them in the plot, can have all those traits turn back on them when they're at their lowest, and that helps those characters grow and evolve over the course of the story. and, if motivation in the hero group has been kinda shaky for a while, it can be really inspiring for both the characters and the readers, to see a character properly move on and pick the rest of the cast up where they broke. and most of all, it leaves space for characters to lose bad traits and become better people.
"shonen anime is the biggest offender"
*laughs in comic book*
It depends how you look at it. If you count any time a character looks like they're about to/should die then anime is at the very least a serious contender, but outright saying someone's dead then going "psyche! jk!" a little later is pretty rare.
@@willieoelkers5568 True
Laughs in Soap Opera
@Tom Ffrench no
I think a good way to make a convincing death despite any level of “I don’t buy it” would be to have the fact that the character is dead come to light slowly. The character’s death is something that one of the other main characters won’t buy too, and so they try to find them, but after going through several leads, the fact that they died is something that they have to come to terms with. You don’t have to make it convincing AT ALL. Anything that the audience can come up with to deny the death is a lead that that character can follow up on. After going through enough of these “leads” the character ends up feeling manic, looking for some way that they could have survived, some place that they could be hiding out in, etc. and eventually the other surviving characters have to pull the disbelieving character back down to earth and have him work through his trauma. You get some serious sad, and so long as you take it far enough past reasonable, you can gradually ease everyone that isn’t ready to believe it into the idea that they’re actually dead, and maybe get the audience to start going “He’s dead. He’s not coming back” before the other characters do
Joel Rosenberg kinda did this in his _Guardians of the Flame_ series. The previous book had ended with our protagonist dying in a blaze of glory that didn't leave a body; the next book was centered on his wife (and son? Been a while) trying to cope with the loss by tracking down some persistent rumors that seemed to indicate that the protagonist had survived.
Didn’t this happen to an extent in the Sherlock series? I watched it quite a while ago, so memory’s a bit hazy, but at the beginning of Season 2
Oh wait Sherlock spoilers - although how you managed to avoid Sherlock defeats me. It’s pretty disappointing though, if that’s any consolation.
all his ‘friends’ were searching madly for him, thinking of every possible way he could have survived. Then, once they finally accept he’s gone, voila, the detective’s back from Somalia or something.
They did that in Justice League, Batman keep searching for ways to Superman to survive until he gived up
They did that with Church in Red vs. Blue, and it HURT
Eli Burry-Schnepp And with Pyrrha Nikos in RWBY. I will NEVER get over that.
Best major/main character death story: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
Fun fact: Wrath of Khan writers originally intended for Spock to be *permanently killed off* but someone leaked the script before the film's initial release and there was *hell to pay* via a massive fan outcry. Which ultimately gave us an amazing movie trilogy in Star Trek II, III and IV.
Is nobody going to notice that she just literally said the final fight of battle tendency
It’s actually Deku vs Muscular from My Hero Academia
... And then there is Dragonball
I am searching teh drgaon ball moments...
Lol yes dragon ball. Don't take the death seriously
And marvel, especially now
I think it's more the MCU fans that aren't taking death seriously. The movies seem pretty dead-set on keeping corpses dead right now.
Timothy McLean you mean like Loki, Bucky, coulson, Loki again, groot, fury, Janet, Bucky again, Loki again, and groot again?
Shoutout to JoJo for pulling this off almost consistently effectively
Jimmy Patel Seriously
The only characters that returned from death either needed a vampire's blood to do it or were dead but just too determined and full of resolve to go down permanently
Jojo when show the main character is never ever off limits to death in the first season
Spoiler
Avdol just got nicked by a bullet. And hell even Joseph had a fakeout
"the bullet only grazed me"
This part really angered my friend
marc nunley
Yeah, but Avdol got an even quicker death doing the same exact thing he was doing the first time and that one stuck
And Joseph’s survival was the actual surprise since the expectation was that he’d go out like his Grandpa
It speaks volumes of how good Horikoshi is at crafting an emotional narrative when now, four years later, I can tell exactly what scene OSP is talking about based on vague details.
love how I knew what your "secret" example was just by your description and some subtle hints you had in addition to that. it is a great one too.
I love the story that Scott McNeil told about when Dinobot Dies. He came out of the booth and instantly asked the director "So when's he coming back" "He's not Scott, he's dead." Scott "ya I know he's "Dead". "No Scott he's DEEEAAAD". They had to tell his a few times before he finally believed them.
I feel like with Transformers, especially back in the era of the original continuity, the easiest way to see the odds of a character's survival was to look at their presence on toy store shelves.
*laughs in cosmically powered Starscream*
I mean, he did "come back" in the form of a Clone.
Who also died.
@@thegloriouskingkronk8422 no that wasn't him it was his clone the two are seperate entities the original never came back
@@rhyperiorhunter7339 Yes, but in stories a clone can serve as a sort of replacement for a dead character, making them "come back" into the story. They are a copy of them after all, so in that sense, Dinobot did "come back" and Scott McNeil got to reprise his role
You know, until that Dinobot also died
@@thegloriouskingkronk8422 ok yes many clones can be considered resurrection but in beast wars it is not as dinobot 2 until the last episode acts nothing like the original
Red: killing characters is hard
Hirohiko Araki: laughter*
Caesar 💔
@@theholypopechodeii4367 8th, the 7th part ended a long time ago
Eiichiro Oda agrees: characters are hard to kill...... so he saves it for the moment that will make the most possible impact.
He doesn't just stab you and twist the knife, he makes damn sure that thing is serrated first!!
Not really. I never thought he would kill bowl cut boy in season 3
@@alcabone1126 who is the bowl cut boy in S3? The only guy in JoJo that has bowl cut that i know is Joshu, and Haruno
One thing that I saw that was super convincing was when all the other characters were mourning, there was one who was just in denial, and they were desperately looking for any possible excuse for the death to not be real. They had a conspiracy board and everything. This character was reflecting what skeptical readers may have been thinking. Then one of the mourning characters tells the character in denial that they are in denial and that they need to move on, basically telling the audience in con uncertain terms that it is a real death. I think that this was a real character death, but it would be a great turn around if it had been a fake death and the supposedly dead character had survived in exactly the way that the character in denial had said.
*Me when I watch fairy tail*
Why no characters die in a war?! it's so unrealistic!
*Me when I watch Akame ga kill*
Why do they have to die?!
I just finished that anime and was hoping someone mentioned it in the comments.
"If they're a central character, ...
a lot of your audience is just gonna refuse to believe they're dead."
I'm looking at you V3...
Stephanie janong ah i see your man of culture danganronpa it is then.
Hehe... Hehe... Ha... Man, Chapter 1 was a real kick in the d*ck...
it's a lie!
Main characters work the same way as Schrodinger’s cat, if you can’t observe it’s dead it’s not dead
Buffy's second death is my absolute favorite. She died in an act of self-sacrifice and all of her friends were in that shattered grieving state and so the resurrected her though great effort. But this was an ultimately selfish act. Buffy actually really liked being dead, she was in heaven (and Earth is technically a hell dimension in buffy) even existing hurts and she has to come to terms with her memories of paradise and the fact that her friends robbed her of her just reward.
“Some seriously quality sad”
When you summarize a good example of a trope in four words.
You know what the best fake-out death was?
THE MAN, THE MYTH, THE LEGEND:
SCOTT STERLING!
YESSS
LOL
“You can’t kill off a shounen protagonist”
Jonathan Joestar would like to have a word with you
Even then, his body came back as DIO's.
Baron Zeppeli, Caesar Zeppeli, Avdol the second time, Iggy, Kakyoin, and many more all want to have word with you as well
@@charlesswift2598 ...that's a secondary protagonist. Secondary protagonists die all the time. She's talking about main protagonists. It's more like the Eren death fakeouts.
Spoiler:
I happen to know already that Joleyne and Jotaro both bite the big one on camera. Even if Jotaro gets downgraded to supporting, I'm still willing to count it.
You also got to remember that Joseph dies in the enemy and jotaro dies in the manga
Johnny does too between 7 and 8
Hughs death was so well done that even just hearing about it still makes me cry
"What a terrible day for rain" is a prefect line.
This video kept giving me anxiety about the deaths my characters have, until I watched it till the end omg 😆
Thank you for making this video, sincerely, I have a much better grasp on how to handle the deaths and a few ideas as well ❤️
Inversely for fire emblem if that character is a dad you know he's dead for good.
Same goes for a Disney movie
Eliwood moment.
@@gratedshtick Eliwood survives in Roy's game, doesn't he? Hector on the other hand...
Looking at you jeralt
@@sutora9309 tbh jeralt stuck around longer than most fire emblem dads. look how many die in the fucking prologue