How can CD transports sound different?
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- čas přidán 27. 04. 2018
- Is there any truth in the idea that CD transports from the cheapest to the most expensive sound different? How can that be true when all the disc reader's sending is identical 1s and 0s of digital audio? They don't have a sound to them. Have a question you want Paul to answer? www.psaudio.com/ask-paul/
I am getting close to publishing my memoir! It's called 99% True and it is chock full of adventures, debauchery, struggles, heartwarming stories, triumphs and failures, great belly laughs, and a peek inside the high-end audio industry you've never known before.
I plan a few surprises for early adopters, so go to www.paulmcgowan.com and add your name to the list of interested readers. There's an entire gallery of never before seen photos too. - Věda a technologie
That’s a very risky salute in the thumbnail
The data coming off the CD is written in frames. 100 frames make up 3 seconds, so there are 33 frames for the first 2 seconds, and 34 frames for the 3rd second. This is the same format that DAT encodes the bit stream. So the transport that reads the data doesn't give a rats ass about timing. It reads the time code, which is in hours, minutes, seconds and frames. This raw data isn't the PCM data that the DAC decodes either, as there is the error control data that is also added to the audio data. The 8 bit word, is turned into a 14 bit pulse train. This is due to the laser not being able to read anything shorter than 2 binary 0's or longer than 10 binary 0's. This is called eight to fourteen modulation, or EMF. EFM ensures there are at least two zeroes between every two ones, it is guaranteed that every pit and land is at least three bit-clock cycles long. This reduces the demands on the optical pickup used in the playback mechanism. The ten consecutive-zero maximum ensures worst-case clock recovery in the player. It is the EFM demodulator, that turns the encoded waveform back into PCM audio data, to be presented to your DAC. It is not so much the clock that is the issue, it is the speed of the EFM decoder, as the data itself is buffered on both sides of the EFM decoder in RAM following FIFO rules, so the clock should have no bearing on this as long as the data is clocked out at a constant rate. It is going to work, or not work. If your clock is off frequency you will get nothing, and it doesn't matter what is reading off the disk on the pickup, as that is all over the map. The disk speed is never perfect, and eccentricity errors caused by a disk that is not perfectly centered, or the wobble track on CDR is going to create huge amounts of jitter in the raw data. This is the job of the input buffer to the EMF demodulator, and the output buffer to create a constant bit stream to the DAC. So this is why you want a quality CD transport, with a good drive motor, and good fast servo's for speed control, focus and tracking, so that the raw data is minimally distored, so the EFM decoding can take place with minimal errors, which in turn will present your DAC with a more stable output.
12 vv....i posted a link to how circ works to add to the subject of a good data read :-)
this is a subject close to the heart since the start of the cd era. as you pointed out...a transport and disc assembly is never perfect. understanding the mitigation is also key.
Best description for the process that I have ever read! Extremely well done.
12voltvids: I was just looking in to this, and your explanation makes me feel 100% satisfied, (as I always only feel about 75% sure, with a possible 25% potential snake oil factor for audio purchases), with my decision to add both an upgrade power supply and the transport enhancements for my BDP205
Would a Monarchy jitter filter between the transport and the DAC do any good if the transport were sub-stellar?
How about buffering the whole song to RAM? A normal CD contains 650 MB (max), $9 computers (Orange Pi) have 512 MB of RAM, $39 computers 2048 MB. You can easily make bit perfect rips or start buffering to RAM 1-2 seconds before starting playback -> no issues with sound even if the drive was utter crap. These "audiophiles" don't seem to understand anything about modern technology.
You watched ps audio marketing commercial. Because they must sell their $6000 CD player.
It's so easy to go and listen to a good system and put a cheap CD player as the front end, you then tend to hear how bad it is, fortunately, I also know that transports can sound different. like everything in HiFi though you need quality products that allow you to hear the difference, or maybe you are one of those unfortunate souls who are tone deaf.
Although I can't afford PS audio but thanks for the explanation.
Do the experiment play same clean cd on few devices and capture output with PCM input of studio quality digital recorder, open on PC editing software and compare output.
Paul, you are a communicator par excellence.
I work in the solar industry, thanks for sharing your PV roof!
There is no 600 rpm.
Scanning velocity: 1.2-1.4 m/s (constant linear velocity) - equivalent to approximately 500 rpm at the inside of the disc, and approximately 200 rpm at the outside edge.
I worked with the development of the first CD testing equipment for the CD production plants..
This parameter was called SVY.
Your correct
Hi Paul, I know this video is about transports, but I can't help but recall your recent video about solar power and high end audio. With your new building, are you planning on using the solar power for lights, computers, machines and the like while using the grid for your music rooms? I know you will be using your power regenerators either way, but my question is: do PS Audio (or any companies') regenerators solve the short-comings of utilizing solar power (or utilizing a battery charged with solar power) for high-end, high-powered audio? I'd really love to get your feedback on this. Thank you in advance for your time and consideration!
So eloquently explained - thank you!👍🏼
I just picked up a Pioneer PD- M450 6disc stacker cartridge CD player yesterday from a second hand store for $9.00 which I thought was a steal! It has a few marks and blemishes on it but hey, you can’t complain for that price. I took it home and hooked it up and it sounds ok, works fine but not I’m not sure if it’s the CD player, or my receiver getting old and getting used everyday and not sounding quite as good as it used to and starting to deteriorate a little. My Yamaha receiver I have had for over 8 years now and cost me $900 back in the day, but it has been used quite frequently for many purposes and have had a lot of inputs hooked up to it. Eventually when I can afford it I’d like to buy a high grade 2ch amplifier with a phono input and use that for my music, CD, vinyl and digitally downloaded music ect, then have my surround for movies seperate.
I had a friend who bought an expensive dac and cd transport but the bnc connector on it was crap so I replaced it with a better one. I heard many times how a different transport sounds different and also the digital cable makes a pretty big difference. We ended up using a digital cable with an exposed shield which discolored as I touched it.
czcams.com/video/HLPVR9_qHhU/video.html
So what if you're using a system which doesn't use the transport for clocking such as with a DAC that resyncs to an internal clock or with a device which reclocks multiple digital inputs into a single digital out (like the RME ADI-8 DD). In this case, assuming there are no errors not being corrected, would it sound the same? If you completely ignore the clocking from the transport and can show that the bits are identical, are you saying there can still be a difference? If so, then what other factors are there that I'm not considering?
"it will sound the same regardless if you have ripped the CD or are playing it back in a CD player." -- of course the real audiophiles can hear the difference when you have renamed the ripped wav/flac file.
@@miasmator You think you can hear the difference between wav and flac at high bitrates/
yea and i'm the king of Texas
Assuming the reclocking itself is identical, there should not be a difference, all you changed is that you’re reclocking on the receiving end (which might be better practice considering it’s closer to the conversion circuitry)
It's my understanding from Ted Smith's talk on the Directstream DAC that the Directstream ignores the timing of data fed to it and reclocks it with it's own clock. He even said if you feed it with a cheap CD player it wouldn't make a difference.
So your answer, while true of other systems, isn't true of your own product.
G F My recollection of TS presentation is the same.....will have to find it again.
Maybe a pop-filter or windscreen is not high end, but it is sometimes very effective :-)
Illuminating discussion. People should take up your transport offer. I would go so far as to say it all comes down to timing. Contributing features are the clock, the isolation and the method of transport to the DAC circuit. Sound impact can range from conventional (barely tolerable) CD player of the 80's to SOTA (as best analogue).
Does this also apply to the quality of the CD drive on computers when you are ripping CDs (to flac)?
Obviously not. The CD rippers even create checksums you can compare with results online. Many people get bit perfect rips no matter what crap drive they have.
quality matters when you are changing domains namely dac
@Taco Yes and it will re-read problematic areas several times to get correct data. It’s very cool
@miasmator I’ve heard a huge difference between a couple
Are you still using your iphone X for shooting the video? It looks great. Is your mic blue tooth?
Super location for a chat Paul !
With noise
Hey Paul. You might want to change that thumbnail. It looks really bad, out of context
This came up in my feed this morning, and I couldn't agree with you more. I love Paul and these videos, but had to do a double take when I saw the thumbnail. LOL
I thought it was a Nazi salute!
Left hand
MARIUS ROMANIA .Every time I listen Paul it's amazing.Thank you for all.
Great explanation Paul.
How do you filter the noisy AC from the inverters connected to the solar panels versus the typical line voltage from the power company?
At my home in San Diego, the total distortion power at the street is about 0.1% versus power coming from a solar system that’s 10-20x higher.
Using an LC filter that can filter out the high frequency switching harmonics
Explains well. My experience confirms that a good transport makes a huge difference. I first had opus 21 cd player and 50% of CDs were uninteresting. I then upgraded to an Accuphase dp450, and 30% of CDs were uninteresting. Then I bought an aqua La Scala dac and used the Accuphase as transport. That improved sound again so 20% of CDs became uninteresting. Then I traded in the Accuphase for a Aqua La diva transport. That resulted in a major improvement so about 5% of CDs became uninteresting.
I don’t mention sacd or bluray because with this system cd sounds equally good and sometimes better. Do your research sceptics: there are studies showing that blind tests show humans can’t tell difference between redbook and higher resolution formats. Cd already exceeds human hearing capacity, so it is no surprise. But you do need a good dac and transport to confirm
Our Denon & Tascam units sound better than the Samsung unit. They both are using optical outputs into a switcher. Compared them on NS-10's, Tannoys and Genelec speaker systems. We could never figure out why.
Paul. Very important qustion. I think it's a one word answer.
Qustion: did you end up using a "central inverter" system or a "Micro inverter" system were every panel has inverters under the panel.
Thaks Paul!!!!
Paul, why dont you put on a switch that turns error correction on and off. Should make the difference between a good and poor transport very clear.
WOA the thumbnail for this video is really weird.
Reminds me of the high end speaker company who's cabinets were made of MDF like most, but finished them with a Stradivarius type varnish and claimed an incredible sonic difference. I'm sure they sold lots of them to audiophiles.
MDF is good material for speaker boxes due to low resonances. The wood finish is for aesthetics. It’s also good to mix materials to spread resonances. So what’s your problem with that design. Makes sense to me!
@@Coneman3 Nobody objects to speakers made out of MDF, if they are sold that way. The company was trying to imply that the varnish would affect the sound like it would on a Stradivarius violin, which it wouldn't. The point is audiophiles often make claims that have no basis in fact. For example, a three foot, 150 dollar power cable will improve the sound of your amplifier, in spite of the fact, its connected to 30 or more feet of 12/2 NM cable coming from the service box.
@@amflyer484 Have you ever tried with your ears? Maybe not.
@@DaveJ6515 The problem is it's been shown many times in studies that your perception of the quality of something is greatly affected by your expectations. If you're told ahead of time that such and such cable is going to improve the sound quality, and you're receptive to that, then you're likely to feel like you can hear an improvement. The only way to do this accurately is through blind testing. It's akin to the placebo effect.
@@Michaeltroughton I’m sorry, blind testing has its fallacies as well.. Not wanting to hear a difference is the other side of the coin of absolutely wanting to hear one. I think we should simply concentrate on what we enjoy instead of telling other people what they should like. We should all accept that our perception can be influenced by expectation, and we should also understand that there are so many different ways to enjoy music and sound, that there is simply no linear scale of sound quality that is good for everyone.
When you are all set in your new building, can you do a dancing video?
Thanks Paul!
But why can not the analog pre-amplification circuits be interfered with by motor electrics (spinning the CD), and improper shielding and external sources, which all may effect the analog signal regardless of the pure digital circuitry of the CD’s digital signal?
The same goes for transport like a LADA and a LEXUS.
Both send where you want to go, but in different comfort.
thanks for the video. In my opinion ,as long as there is no mechanical problem and the dac receives a good signal there is no difference between transports. If there is a difference then you have a problem with your dac. Its the dac's job to convert the digital signal to analogue. Conduct some double blind listening tests and you'll see.
I added a quality digital to digital converter, Denafrips Hermes.
It definitely helps with sound quality 👌.
Should be easy to test, no? Hook up the coax or toslink to a recorder of some sort, save the streams and compare. I'm sure an engineer of Paul's caliber would be able to do it easily. If the data coming off the same disc differs, then the sound will differ. Shit, you can do the same test to see if different quality interconnects produce different output. That'll clear up the whole debate whether $10k cables are worth it. You don't even need double blind tests with speakers and people. Trough the miracles of technology, since it's all digital, just compare the bytes. If the bytes are the same, it's gonna sound the same.
Now don't be coming here with no scientific tests and whatnot. We're peddling snake oil over here. Mind your own business.
If you're sarcastic, atta boy! If you were trying to be serious, Paul's "caliber" is smaller than that of an M1 bolt.
@@patriotbarrow ^^ yepp
@@d0sk3y Well he is an engineer and his company designed some pretty nice hardware. So i wasn't really being sarcastic. He totally knows how to do it. Unfortunately running one of these tests is anathema in the audiophile world, so it's a moot point.
It has been decades since I paid much attention, but it seems insane to me to recover a clock signal from the data stream itself. I was at the 1992 AES convention where Malcolm Hawksford played the jitter signal and we could hear a highly distorted version of the music in it. Yikes. The problem seems easily and cheaply solved by a buffer and one of the Analog Devices low-jitter clock chips that has been available for at least a decade. An expensive transport and carefully designed low-reactance cabling seems like a gold-plated solution to absolutely the wrong problem.
czcams.com/video/HLPVR9_qHhU/video.html
Told ya before I used to live in Longmont 39 yrs ago way back before it was connected to Denver. Bet that gap has narrowed took the wife and kiddies out on a whirlwind venture Estes, Leadville, great sand dunes, Durango, royal gorge, Ouray, Silverton not all in that order and they complained but now it's one of the fondest memories. My youngest loved the dunes. Me not much but hey I was only 46 he was 6 . Wish I could do it all over. P.s. love your stuff not sure if I will be able to afford in my life but I will refer to my boys. Thanx Paul I remember the flatiron well appropriately named huh.
Off topic perhaps, but those PV panels look very shallow. As you'll appreciate, lots of studies have been done on the best angles to mount these at - well worth a look!
Dependa how far north you are
Not sure about the still at the beginning of the video. That hand gesture reminds me of someone ;-)
A jailable offense in Scotland!
It's now known as the £800 Salute
Analog master race.
Yes that salute though... I guess it is ok since it is his left arm...
The optimal sun angle for the panels.
I am told the distortion for power from solar is more than 10x higher than power from the grid. Does your power regen solve this issue?
Distorted power from solar-system inverters might actually produce smoother DC at the amplifier's main filter capacitors.
What's your opinion on the Luxman D404?
How about getting a entry level transport such as Cambridge Audio CXC, but adding a digital to digital converter prior to DAC?
The master clock is still digital, so it's going to run perfectly anyway. Unless there's a literal defect in the transport, no 2 transports should ever sound different. Jitter has to do with whether all the information is reaching the dac or not. Any properly functioning transport shouldn't have any jitter
I wouldn't worry too much by CDT clock as good modern DACs have own master clock and happily ignore the clock from CD transport. This is good as clock should be as close to DA conversion as possible to minimize jitter. I guess there is no such thing as perfect clock, but the question is what level of jitter is audible? Because if it's not audible then why care?
@@t0m4z in the digital realm, any possible imperfections DC current would be imperceptible to any human. Any properly functioning clock will sound perfect to basically any living creature on the planet. Jitter is nonsense. I've always assumed jitter was what happens when the audio signal isn't in sync with the dac and creates a quick cut or delay in sound. This has only ever happened to me when my PC DAC had a bad driver. This isn't something that would normally happen on any properly installed commercial product. But the way I've heard other audiophiles describe jitter, I've never heard of more insane snake oil in my life. Digital signal is either perfect or broken. There's no interference or timing issues unless they are deliberately added in PP.
The only reason why I pay a little more for transports is because I want the shit to last. Better built CD players have better error checking and are quiet. If its through SPDIF the sound will be no different than a cheap player vs a decent player vs a $3000 player. However the cheap player will not last as long and skip on a 1mm scratch on the disc. Now I'm not going to spend $3000 on a CD player but those players have excellent dacs. So you'll use the xlr outputs anyway.
I wish photo-voltaic panels would come in different colours like green. You ought to put a putting green up there.
Green would mean lower efficiency, as not all of the wavelengths are being absorbed.
I hate the airplane noise. For you, the noise interference is bad for audio manufacturer. Anyway I like your gorgeous building. It is a fortune and more for the accessories. Keeping up the fame so we all can enjoy your excellent equipment and software. All the best to ps audio... Best best best
Hey Paul, High End Munich isn't until May 10th.
I recently upgraded my CD player (Rotel, a "recommended component" by The Absolute Sound), to a much more expensive Simaudio Moon Evolution D650 DAC/CD Transport (another "recommended component" by The Absolute Sound). I was able to hear an immediate improvement, though subtle, in the weight of the low end, and absolutely no fatigue in long listening sessions. Was the small difference worth the substantial price increase? For me, it certainly was.
Lived in Longmont co. 1982 is that the Interstate I hear?? City keeps on creeping north Boulders city planners did well. Open spaces. Still get a shower every afternoon ? 82 was tough times economically jobs were scarce but even worse where I came from. Hey the short time i was there i lost 35 lb. Learned less can be more and i still miss the mtns. Appreciate your honesty.
Dat thumbnail
You mean Roman greeting?
@@Watcher4111 Since no Roman art or texts describe such a greeting it's likely not. More a thing that art of much later centuries made up, kind of like Viking helmets with horns.
It of course most certainly was used by another aggressively expanding nation in more modern history though.
If Scott Pruitt finds out about this, he'll make you tear it all out and install a mini Valmont on your roof.
“On the roof” with PS Audio!
But paul, you have mentioned somewhere in your previous video that difference would be apparent if you play it with a high end setup. It may not be perceivable in a mediocre / low end setup. Thanks for all your videos ..been watching it regularly.
i use a GPSDO as master clock
No Paul. If this were the case then some PCs would be better at loading and saving files than other PCs, or indeed loading files from optical drives, because they had more expensive clocks. All error checking is completed before any data leaves the buffer. Jitter sounds like jitter not like noise.
In the thumbnail for this video, Paul demonstrates the new PS Audio salute. This simple salute is expected of every employee, and from every customer.
Is a CD transport read MP3 or WAV? Because my Marantz CD player does.
CD transport is just the physical spinning and reading mechanism, not the audio converter (DAC)
Plus, ever since they started building CD players that can also read mp3, i haven't found one that eventually didn't freeze or cause a problem within a week, never seen on the older strictly-CD players.
CD Transports, buffering, jitter and timing issues have all be discussed at length (and then some....) on hydrogenaudio and other forums, but ultimately it comes down to whether or not those who still have CD collections are willing to move away from the medium. The claim made by some in the comments below - that audiophiles dont know anything about error correction or accurate ripping - seems to assume that 'audiophiles' are a very distinct group locked in some sort of 20th century time warp.
If anything, the arrival of folks who seem far more interested in bits than music into a hobby that already had its share of keyboard warriors has only deepened our desire to battle it out with engineers and designers. Does my IT degree make me an electrical engineer ? No, it doesnt, and even if it did there are people who work in engineering roles and there are engineers. Does Ted Smith know more than most of us about the bitstream that a laser extracts from an optical disc ? Hell yes - of course he does. Can I afford any of the fruit of his labor ? Hell no - and sadly that's all she wrote ;)
(FWIW the Audiolab CDT6000 is much closer to my beer budget, but my focus is more on the reliability of the transport itself than any claims re sonics. External DACs make a lot of sense to me and it means being able to play from Spotify or spinning disc as required - as always, YMMV)
Well I can say my cd-73 sounds completely different to my cd-52 and cd-80.
I'd love to know why "Ohm's Law viewers can't see Hay mountain ...
Okay, but I believe that a very good DA Converter is going to make a bit more of a difference; only my opinion.
A portable cd player with a buffer must be ok in that world?
Every CD player uses a buffer - this is unavoidable because while an audio CD is played the rotation speed of the CD has changes (it gets slower the more away the laser pickup is from the center) and to keep the motor at the exact speed would be much expensiver than using a buffer memory. Portable CD player just uses much bigger buffers to avoid interruptions when the laser pickup looses the track due to an external shock)
I'm confused. Here's the argument as I heard it: CD players, like hard drives, have no clock associated with the bits being produced, causing jitter. A CD transport provides this missing clock frequency and allows the DAC to reproduce the original analog signal accurately.
But there IS a clock associated with the bits, isn't there? The CD format has a fixed sample size of some super tiny fraction of a second. You can pass the digital data around all you want without worrying about losing timing data because the timing data is there in the format itself.
But even if digital data was missing timing/rhythm information and needed some hardware clock to restore it, this would be part of the spec and every single CD player would include it.
Well it seems some CD players/transports have better and some worst master clocks which determines how much you would be affected by jitter. But I wouldn't worry too much by CDT clock as good modern DACs have own master clock and happily ignore the clock from CD transport. This is good as clock should be as close to DA conversion as possible to minimize jitter.
The point is - if you are using another source for clock and a dirty cheap CD reader, the sound would be the same. You can read the whole disk to digital format, store it to solid storage and it will sound better than your extremely expensive CD player (if you place it in the same area where the speakers are), because CD makes noise.
Aa Bb As long as you have Big enough buffer.
And you don't read errors.
John Yang, educate yourself about error correcting codes, which are mandatory on most CDs.
So ripping the CD to Flac is the best way?
John Hooper, yes or to any other lossless format.
The whole thing boils down to this: are you a ripper? I am not, as I'm old enough to suffer from Vinyl syndrome; someone who likes to listen to their CD's the most, because I can listen to both sides of a vinyl album before I have to freshen my drink. Grab a stack, sit down and play dj. Because of this, a transport matters.
If you store all of you're music on a hard disc or ssd, it matters less. In that case, spend your money on a better DAC.
Its a big differens in transports
Paul I think you've demonstrated that you really don't understand the way digital audio works either that or you've demonstrated why people think that audiophiles are crazy when they make unsupported assertions that don't jive with the science.
@@brandonlau2250 Or he's just selling you crap
Although I’ve never owned a dedicated transport before, I truly believe read accuracy makes a difference. I oiled the spindle, and relubricated the sled on my aging mitsubishi dvd player that I use as a cd player.. Very noticable improvement. The highs are now clear instead of splashy, wider soundstage and deeper sounding. This was not subtle at all
Rocky mountain solar panel high.
is there a difference in jitter etc between a Walmart CD player and something like a $500 Cambridge Audio like player?
Probably not. Both likely have high degrees of jitter. You need a transport that's specifically been designed to lower jitter to get rid of it.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Surely a competent dac should take care of jitter . I don't believe anyone can reliably hear the difference between transports into a competent dac. Can you prove otherwise ?
@@Michael127gerard I can hear otherwise, yes. But, provide it to you how?
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio It would be difficult but certainly not impossible. A double blind test the details of which would have to be agreed upon. I might also add that running down both Cambridge audio and Walmart transports is not a good look for an audio manufacturer.
Well, I just picked up a Moon 260d with the optional DAC, and all I can say it that it has transformed my system, be it CD or USB from my mac. So much better sound than my dead Revox B225. Or maybe it's just the audioquest golden gate cables I got from PSA :)
Why not tap off dc from the solar pv system to charge a battery bank to run your reference system?
About a year ago I began reading how the RBCD system works. I was stunned by the redundancies, bit error detection and correction systems built into it. The actual audio signal is only a small fraction of what is on the disc. Each track is read at least six times and if wrong may be read again. Obviously a motor cannot spin nearly accurately and steadily enough to achieve the requirements of the digital signal. This is where signal reshaping using a Schmidt trigger and buffer registers driven by a quartz clock oscillator comes in. The jitter is directly related to the stability of the oscillator. As I recall it is 2 parts in 10 billion. The most important thing is that the sequence of one's and zeroes at the register output and the input to the DAC are correct. To achieve this the disc must spin steadily enough so as jitter does not to exceed the time window allowed for each bit. Once that is achieved further improvement is inaudible due to teclocking. Any low pass filtering between the phototransister output and the input from one stage to the next will slow the rise time of the pulses which is why they have to be reshaped and reclocked. Inadvertent parasitic oscillation will add to the jitter. If they are not within the time window bit errors will be the result. Different DAC designs will yield different analog audio output signals.
BTW, I've performed many calculations of proposed energy savings projects. Invariably engineers intuitively use the simple payback method. Dollars spent divided by dollars saved each year equals the payback period. The results are wrong even if the technical assumptions are correct. The first time I did this I was taught how to calculate what's called the net present value method by the company's capital assets accountants. By this measure proposed projects that looked good using the simple payback method looked horrible using the right method. One proposal had a payback period of never because the book value of the asset depreciated to zero before the initial investment was paid back. Even with government incentives photovoltaic cells like electric cars are a poor investment.
Indeed pretty cool :) #FridaysForFuture
I love, that in The US The Citizen do something By themself to help climate No matter what government is doing 💪
Figure out payback.
@@TinkinLA normally around 5-6 years if you make full use of the PV systems output and with a life of 20 years its a very good investment.
You think the government is suppose to feed, clothe and provide you heat and shelter? Of course you do.
I really don’t understand why you are focusing that much on CD and CD-players. The CD-media is loosing ground fast (or has already lost for many people) why focus on files and streaming would make more sense when addressing digital challenges in relation to music and sound quality issues. There are so many things to discuss and learn.
You got a point.. Revenue from streaming is almost 50%.. www.statista.com/chart/8836/streaming-proportion-of-us-music-revenue/ Downloads almost the same revenue as cds.. wow..
Claes Malmberg Look who he mostly seeks to. Old dudes. That's the answer right there.
Maybe you don't want to stream the FLAC (decoded on the fly) directly from DDR4 to the sound card DAC buffer using a realtime OS, maybe sometimes you want to decode the digital audio to WAV, burn to a CD and play using a crappy mechanical player and connect to a DAC using a lossy, low bandwidth, non-error corrected SPDIF link.
...maybe because:
(IN AVERAGE)
CD (used, from ebay or Amazon) £2-7
FLAC DOWNLOAD £0.99+ per song or £7-13 for album
HiRes download (album) £16- £22 (mostly '60-'90's music)
Vinyl (!) £15-25 (Amazon, eBay "whatever")
Of course, this calculation is completely useless if you are only interested in paying for a service (having access to whatever company catalogue serves you).
Hope this helps.
You can turn thousands of CDs into FLACs in few days. With a used $1 crap drive. Then none of this CD motor/transport mumbo jumbo matters. The data can be fed to DACs in hard realtime from system memory. Sure CDs are cheap but life is so much easier if you rip them. Hard drives cost around 20 euros per terabyte. You can store around 3000 FLAC encoded CDs in one terabyte. CDs get scratched and bitten by disc rot: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot
Great about solar panels. Not so great about the CD transports ;)
👍
$29 vs player vs $200 cd PLAYER, YES makes sense to spend the extra dough. $200 vs vs $3000 and up, it's typical snake oil as very well explained in these comments by people much more educated in the subject matter than me. Is the $3000 player using higher quality parts, I would hope so but the same thing can be said about a Toyota Camry versus Lexus es350. The es350 just appears to use a little better materials in some parts of the car. Otherwise it's basicly the same car. Take off the badge of a fully loaded Toyota Camry fully loaded and compare it to a ES 350 and drive them back to back and 99% of the people would never know the difference,, but yet Lexus will make you think that their car is far superior! There's a great show on TV called Adam ruins everything, he bunks a lot of myths regarding different topics. He would have a field day regarding most of these half-truths. Just because a product or accessory makes something sound different doesn't make it sound better! People you do realize that recording studios whose job is to produce the music don't buy into most of this stuff that the ultra high end consumer grade equipment suggests. That's a topic I am aware of and again if the recording studios don't use it why should I. And yes Paul, I do realize your studio is going to be one of the exceptions. Room Acoustics mean more to the quality of the sound than all this stuff combined times 10. Is there a difference from an internal flawless diamond versus a vvs1 diamond, yes under a 10 x magnification. Seems pretty silly to pay tens of thousands of dollars more for that privilege based on size unless of course it's an investment which diamonds are a horrible investment! Of course a D color diamond does make sense to pay extra if your only choice is a D colored diamond verse let's say a J colored diamond the difference is quite apparent!
A $2000 steam engine is better than a $200 steam engine, and a $20000 steam engine even better, but no match for combustion engine (music playback from NAND Flash) or nuclear power (music playback from DDR4 RAM).
+Big Jay
Adam Conover is a comedian.
I do not take advice from him, nor Jerry Seinfeld, nor Rosie O'Donnell, etc. Are they entertaining? Sure. That is where it ends.
Error correction and clock jitter!
Im sorry, but am I the only one who has a problem with Pauls pose in the thumbnail
Yes, you are the only one. Thank you for uncovering the fact that Paul is indeed a Nazi.
Paul is very leftist politically and it seems he posing like a famous socialist. Good catch!
You talk a lot about being energy conscious, but it seems all PCs in your company are running over the weekend and none of them in energy saving mode...
Perhaps he's mining bitcoin? ;-)
The question remains ... Do CD transports sound different when powered by solar panels? PS Audio has a rooftop lab ready to test this ... 😁
And what kind of sun sounds best
@@jamesparson I would guess that in summer time the transports sounds "warmer" if the power comes from solar panels....
What amazed me more is that an expensive power cords make transports sounded better and different. Power cord does not
Do anything to clock and jitter right ? A fat one like Shunyata Anaconda will makes transport sound big, small one but silver based like Audiquest WELmakes a lean and clear sound.
There's more to digital audio than 0s and 1s. Lots more.
the quality of the master clock :D tell me more... really? is it something wrong with that clock maybe
Yes. There is something wrong with every clock and it is the phase noise close to the carrier. Typical clock in most audiophile systems costs about $10 and has a phase noise at 10 Hz of -70dB. SOTA clock is $19k and will be -130dB. Difference in sound in a well buffered and isolated system is typical good audio (but clearly digital) vs holographic natural (like best reel to reel master).
@@user-od9iz9cv1w Or you could just you know put your data on a hard drive and have no jitter and laugh
20k for a cd player clock...lol
Unless you're retired that's insane
@@ericmiller254 Agree, those prices are insane. I am going with DIY equivalent performance for about $500.
Does not matter if the data comes from a CD, HHD or memory card. The jitter is determined primarily by the phase noise of the clock and secondary by all the circuits between the oscillator and the DAC. Cable and cable length can degrade, and any other chips that process the clock signal will degrade. But it is in the end mostly the clock. The difference between a cheap nasty DAC and a great natural sounding DAC comes down mostly to the clock and the quality of the power supply.
@@user-od9iz9cv1w so what clock would you use with what dac or dac chip and doesn't opa chip make a difference in sound.its interesting your always goin to get abit of cost to performance.
@@markclancy5371 Sorry Mark, not sure I understand your question...
If you are saying the DAC irrespective of the clock has its own sonic signature, I agree. And people have different tastes in DAC chips / architecture. But any DAC will sound better as you decrease the phase noise of the clock that times it. So pick your favorite DAC and then get the most out of it by:
1. improving the clock
2. improving the power supply
3. improve the output stage, and
4. improve the isolation for both vibrations and EMI.
In my case, I use the very old TDA1541a chip with a very good power supply, a dual mono triode output stage and a clock that is -130dB at 10Hz. Sounds very natural without a hint of digital irritation.
I had a contract with Bose for several years to repair their products and was very surprised at the quality of the parts they us, or lack of. One of the parts I always had to replace was their CD pickup mechanism.The Cd pickup from their stock cost me &18.00,this was the Cd mechanism that went into their $500-$800 Wave radios.It was no different than the CD pickup that I put into a $50 Aiwa or Sanyo music system,very cheap part for what their products cost.
TV Tech, Status quo on the "parts games manufactures play" I have a question you may know. There was a Bose speaker in the 90s. Had a 2 way 8" design. Light bulb in the crossover. They were the best Bose ive seen so I bought them. There really were awesome hooked up to a Yamaha natural sound AV. Do you know the model number or did I just imagine that I had those?
Fuse Protection Bulb,Used in crossover circuits to protect high frequency drivers.No you did not imagine it,but I do not remember the model number. Peavey also used them.It's a power limiter. Light bulbs have about 15-20 times the resistance when lit (rated current) as they do when cold. Say you designed a tweter ckt such that the light bulb was ~1 ohm at 1 watt and the tweeter was 6 ohms.
You were surprised that Bose used crap parts? That surprises me. They build garbage. I thought most people involved in audio knew this already.
Thanks for the rundown on the bulb, I did light that sucker up often. See it through the "blow hole" at night. Like 3am outside of my travel trailer in a campground! Sorry people for my crazy days of life!
HH Scott, Bose was the everyday kick butt concert sounding speakers in the 70s. It was a good era, Too bad they wore out that fame with all the overpriced, acclaimed "inovative" garbage. But the 2 ways were ok. And funny, they were straight up regular.
Paul, you know those panels fry birds out of the sky right? Pretty darn cool 😎.
Ian Peck not that kind of panels.
No, solar panels don't fry birds.
But high-power radar transmitters can.
well the clouds do look a bit nasty lol
Transport itself is a mechanical device
Sorry but I have to disagree
We can see jitter when tested, but can you actually hear something and say "too much jitter in this track". If jitter has no sound, then what does it matter, because we are hearing the music and not seeing the music.
But I recently got a new DAC, The Topping D30...and going from my onboard sound to the D30 DAC, I noticed the sound seems to be better "timed" more organized, more clear...it just seems more organized.
yes you can and you can also hear time smearing both are huge problems with digital music
Thumbnail is kinda WW2
Always thought that CD player is important because it is actualy the part where living analog audio signal is created from soulless digits. Confused why this detail was not mentioned. Do I misunderstood the question from the video?
Always thought that this detail, the work of DAC in other words, is what actually makes the most of difference between 50 and 5000$ players...
oh... now seems I get it. CD player used in this case only to create the digital flow. This word Paul said was "DAC" not "deck" 😄
Not native speaker :)
That's not a sea of photovoltaic solar panels...... Must be 200 - 500 of them... 😁
I'd say it's a small pond or maybe a large puddle.
just shows what an inefficient technology it is
who cares about what is going on up on the roof.... I bet it would be fun to smoke a doobie with Paul.
No doubt, Paul would argue that lossless files stored and retrieved from a hard drive would sound "warmer" than lossless files stored and retrieved from an SSD - he losses all credibility with this video.
If you have the time to actually watch the video you'd note that I am pretty clear files stored on either type of HD are identical. The reason music files sound different when stored on various media has to do with the power supply demands of the hardware and its impact on jitter as opposed to the files themselves.
Why does a ripped CD sound superior when it is processed by Roon, in DSD256? Same 44/16 information? Roon is the best upgrade I have made to my HiFi
Roon is not making your music sound better.
It's probably just has a different output and you're running it through a different DAC
Regular files require you to go into WASAPI mode to just have direct output to your gear. Roon might do that automatically. Otherwise windwos drivers and dac will compress and process the sound
💪💪🙏
We have roughly the same amount of solar panels. They're just about enough to run all our espresso machines and a couple of plasma TVs, lol. Anyway, the rest of the video is a perfect example of snake oil.
LOL
It only proved that you know nothing about read meters and datas.
@@vicyan8987 Uh huh we all need 20k cd players that noone making the music uses
When we can just use high end storage like a SSD for infinitely better and more accurate tranpsort
Here we go again..... lol
Well Ive heard it all now. What complete and utter Bull delivered by a master of the sport. You'd be better off attacking the DAC or wiring etc.
This is technically incorrect. The DAC is on a clock domain different from the incoming transport bit stream. It simply doesn't matter how much timing jitter or rate offset a cheap transport introduces. The play back into the DAC is from the capture buffer. If you've gone to the expense of using a stand-alone DAC, it's that clock that's responsible for spooling out the audio samples regardless of what it's fed by.
As long as the same bit sequence arrives at the DAC, it matters not whether it's a $15 Goodwill CD player or $15k "transport".
I am sorry, but you are wrong. Let's try and keep the technical details accurate for the benefit of our community. The master clock in a transport sets the DACs clock and the DAC, through PLL and other timing synch methods, does its best to stay in synch. It's why a DVD transport, for example, can play a CD at 44.1 and then moments later play a DVD data disc with a sample rate of 192kHz. The DAC cannot know what to expect, which is why in this case it is the slave and the transport the master.