Does This Reaction Break the Second Law of Thermodynamics?
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- In the 1950s, Russian chemist Boris Belousov reported a bizarre reaction. A reaction that oscillates between two states. Could it be violating the second law of thermodynamics? Andrea Sella investigates.
Day 13 of our thermodynamics advent calendar: www.rigb.org/christmas-lecture...
In the 1950s, Russian chemist Boris Belousov reported a bizarre reaction. It’s a reaction that can’t seem to make up its mind. As two liquids are mixed together, a colour change occurs, then reverses, then happens again, then flips back…
What’s going on? Could this seemingly spontaneously reversing reaction be violating the second law of thermodynamics? Chemist Andrea Sella demonstrates the startling Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction and explains why, in the end, no laws are broken.
The 2016 advent calendar explores the four laws of thermodynamics with a new short film each day, with explosive demonstrations, unique animations, and even a musical number. Open the calendar at www.rigb.org/christmas-lecture...
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This isn't actually the Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction though, right? This is the Briggs-Rauscher reaction.
botvis Exactly. It’s not violating the second law :/
That's Briggs-Rauscher reaction, not Belousov-Zhabotinsky
Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction is a mix of potassium bromate, cerium(IV) sulfate, malonic acid, and citric acid in dilute sulfuric acid.
Don't forget Ferroin indicator
When you know ur stuff
Sure, but what's actually going on with the reaction?
Ryan N , I was also really hoping he would explain the reaction, and what the chemicals are, not just the observations... But that's Clickbait for yah!
Do correct me if I'm wrong:
This is called a clockreaction, it takes a while for it to finish. There's very fast reactions (explosions in fireworks for example) and very slow reactions (like the rusting of an iron nail).
There's actually more than one reaction taking place. The endproduct makes the blue colour, but when you add a different substance, the concentration of the endproduct from the first reaction changes. So now a different compound is 'dominant' and makes yellow.
With the first reaction still taking place, more and more of the molecules that make the substance blue are being made. Everything turns blue.
Now the second reaction takes place again...
etc.
my prospect of this experiment is they used a magnetic stirrer which probably causes alternating solution. and probably when all the electrons decayed their emission of energy, the reaction stops.. some kind of quantum physics+ electromagnetism+ chemistry all in the same experiment. its also like a slowed alternating current or wavelength frequency. and probably if you make a current in the solution there would probably an explosion because there would be an increase emission of electrons and then if the stirrer would increase the motion then BOOM.. so probably not worth doing the experiment.. haha
A wooden duck going down a hill. Didn't you see?
Should've explained that the colours formed are because of I2 and I3+ ions
Since there was no scientific method when people claimed the earth was flat, there were no Scientists to claim such a thing, priests, shamans maybe philosophers; no Scientists as we would understand the term. We have known the world to be spherical for thousands of years.
Maciej Pociecha scientists never ever claimed the world to be flat, as you rightly said they actually proved it to be round thousands of years ago. a much better comparison would have been the “bad humors“ and “odors“ that were thought to transmit illness before germ theory was a thing
It never ceases to amaze me. The sheer ignorance and childish silliness of that claim. It does illustrate the person saying it has a great misunderstanding of science, the scientific method, scientific history, and history in general.
I actually think it comes from the dishonest and irrational apologetics surrounding religious beliefs, and the rejection of reality in favour of fantasy and making shit up.
As you rightly say, we have known the earth was spherical for a long time, at least to the early Greeks, and possibly much longer. It was really only the dogmatic religious beliefs and thier control of information to the masses that made it dogma the earth was flat, and the centre of everything that had people believing it. And it is also well known what was likely to happen to anyone questioning that orthodoxy. Just look at Giordano Bruno and Galileo, to name just two.
As you also say, there were no scientists as such either. They were then termed Natural Philosophers, and it would take some time before actual empirical scientific method would be adopted. That is what we now know as science.
These folk however really have no interest at all. It is simply more vacuous nonsense, in order to cling to a childish delusion, and eschew what science has to say about the natural world, if it in any way could conflict with their particular mythical story.
In effect a gleeful, wilful ignorance and adherence to dogma and dictat.
nope... its an extra layer os complications and confusions.
why end at such a depressing note?
Entropy rules
physics doesn't care if it hurts our feeling :(
John Hunter isn't this chemistry though? :)
It's not that depressing, it only means everything has an end. You could be as safe as you can going down the metaphorical slope, it will still end in the same way as every other way down the slope, so you should use the limited time you have doing what you want to do.
See, now it's not so much depressing but an inspiration for some to live their life how they want. It's always how you interpret things.
I found that to be really creepy.
actually you could use a ball to describe this - it just needs to be a rubber ball - and at the bottom needs to be a angled surface that will allow it to bounce slightly back up the incline - this would represent the chemical reaction better actually.
Actually, that would break second thermodynamics law, as it ends, and then it goes back
youre fucking stupid.
Madafaca6969 suit yourself.
You showed intelligence in your first comment, why ruin that with childish insults?
I won't call you names, but will rather give my interpretation of the rubber ball analogy. When the ball hits the wall the first time, it's reaction with the wall hasn't ended. The ball simply flexes and bounces back several times until all the energy has been transferred from kinetic energy to potential energy. I am not in any way educated in chemistry, but the way I see it, the color changes represent bounces off the wall until the reaction is completed.
Nice video, but the reaction you show is a Briggs-Rauscher reaction, not a B-Z reaction.
Holy hell, that took a dark turn XD
Great video and production!
The end was depressing.
could you please tell me how to make it?
Very well explained. Thanks
it's a ligation redox reaction that's oscillating but the equilibrium state is similar in energy to the states of each of the two outwards states. unfortunately the equilibrium looks to be driven outward by the spinning stirrer, my gut guess based on past experiences is a) the
pH of each state isn't far off from the equilibrium state, and B) leave the stir bar off and it will reach equilibrium faster. certainly a cool balancing act going on for sure though.
Such a heartwarming message :P
Great video keep up the good work!
Is there a reaction that would loop forever just due to the fact that you are adding (mechanical/thermal) energy to the system just by mixing it?
Photoandcargeek yay me in a boxing ring .
I punch ,opponent has a reaction . Hits back . And vice versa .
Til the end lol .
(Jokes i know what you mean and I've been thinking the same thing . I'm new to thermodynamics) trying to understand it all as easy as possible
I miss the explanation of the reaction. Why does it toggle between the two states instead of directly going to the end state?
It (like everything else) will always take the path of least resistance, and for this particular chemical combination, the rocking back and forth was necessary for entropy. (think a lot of potential energy)
Great video but the end was super dark.
Amazing metaphor for life.
Well explained
Wow, the ending, sooooo grim
That was a deep message at the end
Every laws: conservation of energy, conservation of mass, laws of thermodynamics were created based on philosophical reasoning then only came the physics/chemistry.
But sure, scientists never think for a potential exceptions.
Nobody has ever claimed that the reaction violates the second law, so why the video?
Thanks!
Great video and great host
What's the spinning thing at the bottom of the beaker?
JP Talusan a stirring bar, it turns using a magnetic field from the spinning magnetic below the hotplate's surface.
Oh ok, that clears things up. Thanks. Is it necessary to keep the reaction reacting (for lack of a better word)?
JP Talusan No I don't believe so but it does help it to occur simultaneously throughout the solution by keeping it mixed.
I feel like we're watching a flip bifurcation take place, have people done non-linear dynamics analysis on this system?
Hmm yeah but that is not actually explaining the reaction at all. If you find a way to violate the laws of thermodynamics I am sure I will hear about it in the papers I was more interested in finding out what's actually happening in the reaction.
its easy to see the "color" is effected by the magnet stirring faster - resulting the darker color.
'Curious chattering,'-I tried assuming that the stirrer was adding energy and upshifting the chemical balance till it'd radiated or evaporated enough to come back down ...or... the blue was absorbing room light and heating back up to yellow... numerous hypotheses (classes) might be conjectured until you complete the experiment-which you never really showed....
"The action takes place on the slope"... bro, I just love when scientists go artists
This isn’t Belousov- Zhabotinsky reaction, it’s Briggs Rauscher reaction.
this is not the Belousov Zhabotinsky it's the briggs rauscher, another one of the established oscillating reactions
Numerical simulation of the Belousov Zhabotinsky reaction (similar to iodine clock): @.
03:43 - all I wanted to know.
I think of it more of a hill with alot of up and down bumps so it starts at like 10 inches and is clear then goes to 5 inches and is yellow then goes to 1 inch and is blue then back up to 5 inches and is yellow again going back and forth until it can't make it up a hill and ends at the bottom between to hills at blue.
What chemicals are involved in this?
Malonic acid and potassium bromate.
3CH2(CO2H)2 + 4BrO−3 → 4Br− + 9CO2 + 6H2O
He mentioned peroxide and an iodine solution.
mo - he said iodine is being produced in the yellow phase.
Evoletization thanks :)
He is wrong because the shown reaction is not the Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction (which would include bromate). It is the Briggs-Rauscher reaction; thus the video is labeled wrong. The shown reaction works with iodate instead of bromate.
Depressing ending.
are the reactants all turning into products or does it just find a state of equilibrium?
Latter. But sometimes equilibrium state implies former. Not in this case, as I know.
So what's the fuss about?
if the ball was made from something magnetic and there was a strong enough magnetic field then the ball could make its way backup the slope? 😐
Good articulation btw. I'm serious, for not native english speaking folks...
Not enough science??
All good until the chemist attempted to do philosophy with an ugly metaphor.
-Hello mr physicist do your shit please.
-Sup, energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it transforms from one form to another.
-Thanks Mr. Physicist.
*Mr Physicist flies away*
It was a rather beautiful metaphor.
Energy is the ability of a system to do work.
I beg to differ. It may be too sorrow for my taste.
f4z0
The beauty comes because everything ends. If it would last forever, there would be no beauty. A flower is beautiful because it blooms for a short while, if it would bloom forever it would be just mundane. Life is good because it last for a while, if we would live forever, it would be just torture.
Actually, you has described the FIRST LAW, not the Second
Would've been nice to hear the chemical mechanism. Anybody who is watching this and also understands the second law would probably understand the reaction pathway.
what a solution to such a non problem
Saw the title and thought--probably not
Of course not xD These type of titles are called "Clickbait". Of course it doesn't break any laws, because then everyone would have known about it already =)
Is that Professor Andrea Sella? Makes a change to see him doing something other than distilling urine. ;)
The cyclic observation in chemical mixing is due to atomic property of substance used. Length of cycle depend on number of factors. When technology advance to enable you to see atom of different elements in action while combining, you will see the reason for your observation.
A scientist know only living things Die, non living thing change, transform. Man's Law of thermodynamics, look it up. MG1
I don't like the title to this video because I'd bet most of the subscribers already know that it doesn't break the 2nd law of thermodynamics without watching because you literally just released videos on the fact that the laws of thermodynamics are THE law. This video should have been the first in your little series. I literally almost didn't watch it because it's the worse kind of a click bait title. It's almost 2017, lets please end click bait titles together as a species.
I mean everyone knows the 2nd law can never be broken, it's one of the most proved fundamentals in science. The title was supposed to invite the curious by suggesting that there may be some counter-evidence to suggest that the 2nd law has been broken and then go through the rational thought process to see whether this was actually the case. If you almost didn't watch this video purely because of the title you are an idiot.
I don't think you're allowed to use words as complicated as "thermodynamics" in click bait? ;)
The answer to a question headline is almost always "no".
what kind of clickbait title is this?
Betteridge's law of headlines
indeed. You wouldn't be making youtube videos when it would have broken the law.
yellow, blue; yellow, blue; yellow, blue; Oh! blue, yellow!
3:00
Good lord. Is this a Bee Movie reference?
I'm going to live forever!
Transhumanism and life extension FTW.
My mother did this for the last 15 or 20 years of her life. She'd get sick, go in the hospital, then recover. But she never got quite as healthy as before and over the years the time she was relatively healthy got shorter. Then starting last Spring she started down in a way that was different. I think we all knew that this time was going to be the last down turn, then last October she finally passed.
I'm just glad there wern't the color changes like this stiff did.
Horrible sound mix, can't barely understand this guy because of the background music.
Nothing ever violates the Second Laws of Thermodynamics, bwahahahahahaaaaa!
it's too pink, do it again
No real laws broken
Why make vid
Put your goggles and lab coat on!
2nd law of thermal dynamics is wrong anyone that thinks different unfortunately is irrefutably incorrect and it's easier to prove it wrong than it is to prove right honestly in my opinion. Math books also tell you that undefined is the final answer when you can't solve an expression that has a fraction with a denominator of 0. Our math system is really bad when it finds itself in a corner needing to perform practical application. Not all the time. Prime numbers are not a mystery. It's honestly an easy concept and the 4th dimension is even easier to comprehend than that. The tesseract model they show us literally is so annoying and rude to show to people. Our math system hates infinity, when that's the most important constant there is. Yet we love to call things irrational, imaginary and undefined. People have moved on along long ago, contrary to what Bill Nye tell us. Btw I love Bill Nye don't get me wrong, my dad worked with him at the Keyport naval base in Poulsbo, WA even before he started his show. Go hawks Bill if you read this. 2nd law of thermal dynamics is incorrect!
Am I the only one who found this slightly patronizing?
Yup
This is a horrible explanation. How many different ways do you need to say the same thing? And you didn't even really explain the reaction properly
clickbait title, dislike
No one cares if you disliked
Irritating, and unnecessary music, makes this unlistenable.
Great video keep up the good work!