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Is The Left DEAD - This Historian Destroys Nonsense Claims w/. Andy Beckett
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- The left is dead and buried - or so the people running the Labour Party would like to think. But is that really true?
Andy Beckett gives us a tour de force here - both a history of the left, and what it all means for the here and now, and future.
Make sure you get a copy of Andy's book - The Searchers: Five Rebels, Their Dream of a Different Britain, and Their Many Enemies.
Please like, subscribe, comment, share - and help us take on the right-wing media here: / owenjones84
Please like, subscribe, comment, share - and help us take on the right-wing media here: www.patreon.com/owenjones84
Yes. Braindead.
You need banning
That caught me out, he’s a fan of the Grateful Dead. He’s a Deadhead.
*ALL MY COMMENTS ARE GONE. THIS CHANNEL ONLY. ALL OTHER CHANNELS ARE OK.*
If Nye Bevan & Tony Benn were around today they’d be purged by Starmer & his right wing faction.
Right. I keep thinking that even Roy Jenkins wouldn’t be considered right-wing enough for these lunatics at this point, and he walked out on Foot
Iirc Nye Bevan had the whip withdrawn on at least two occasions so the party wasn't a model of democratic tolerance even back then.
@@rp1692Indeed-NYE was bang on the money about ‘vermin’ though……😂
@@rp1692 Agreed, the Labour movement has always been hampered by the fact that the party it set up to represent workers in Parliament has been infiltrated by right wingers on the side of capital. Starmer's 'changed Labour party' is by far the worse example of this corruption, even worse than Bliar.
Facts.
Out of 120 years Labour had only been in power for 30 years! Arguably the only radical government was in '45 bringing us the NHS, welfare state and building one million council homes. But only because there was a huge movement socialist outside.
Labour has been a managerial party for capitalism when the Tories f up.
Starmer has moved it firmly to the right.
We have noparty for the people.
Reform is a people’s party.
@@VaucluseVanguard Reform is a party for people who've given up on people.
Left wing authoritarianism has more in common with right wing authoritarianism than it cares to admit
Greens?
@@aminamangera4871 what happened 120 years ago? I'm not British
I certainly haven't become more Conservative as I have got older, I would never believe that business and things are more important than people.
Same, I get more left with age. I don't want to leave a shitty mess for the next generations
People before profit
The older I get the more I despise modern pop music and I could do without all that social media bs. Sometimes I whine about these things in public and it makes me sound like a conservative in the eyes of younger generations. But appearances can be deceiving LOL.
I'm the same. In fact, I think I've become even more left wing if that's possible
@@firebyrd437depends where you start at.
I startet out clearly on the left, moved further left and now i can neither imagine how i could move further left nor that i'd ever move back to the right.
In 2019, Corbyn got a higher percentage of the vote than Miliband, Brown, Foot, or Kinnock in 1987.
And more votes than Starmer in 19. In 17 he got a lot more than both things.
Didn't his holiness lie about being a Remainer?
@@23715 no he campaigned up and down the country. He also never argued for leave in his decades on the back bench. Although he never hesitated to criticise the EU when he disagreed with it.
Blame Alan Johnson for leading the labour remain campaign.
@@nickd4310 I thought Diane Abbott said he was a Leaver ?
@@nickd4310 Didn't his holiness once work for RT the mouthpiece of a vicious torturing war criminal?
My politics haven't changed over the last 40 years. I used to think I was centre right now it seems basic humanity means I am left wing.
Basic humanity has nothing whatsoever to do with left/right political dualism
The Greens won in Bristol in the most ridiculously affluent middle class white area. Come the revolution!
The Greens aren't as left as you think. If they were in power, they would be more like Labour - because that's how you get power in the first place, by compromising with all voters.
The Greens have all the councillors in the wards of Ashley, Easton and Lawrence Hill. Not really ".. affluent middle class white " voters.
Ed Balls on the BBC said that deselecting Faiza Shaheen and letting IDS win was a price worth paying. Find the footage.
I have always despised him. He is so slimy and creepy!
To be fair he said that's what they would be thinking inside Labour.
To help me recover from an eating disorder triggered by dwp sanctions, I went to stay with my Mom in Spain for 4 months in 2018. I faced a sanction of 3 months on my return due to being out of the country for more than 3 months, an anti-Immigrant rule brought in by Blair Labour governnment in 2003. Still struggling now. But hopeul that this new govt won't actively be trying to kill it's own citizens, oh sorry, subjects. Just staying alive feels rebellious!
I'd never suggest this is indicative of anyone but myself, but as an older millenial I started off left and have only become moreso in my middle age. No property, no investments, no pension, no prospects, no future. You can line those facts up however you like, they still remain for so many people, and are guaranteed to exist in the short to medium term at least, unless we put up a proper challenge. This goes for everyone living in the capitalist hellscapes of "the west." Our bosses treat us like lost children and we oblige. Perhaps we could refuse to do so.
Owen and Andy two of the Guardians very decent journalist
Harold Wilson kept us out the Vietnam War.
And created the Open University, which he regarded as his greatest achievement.
This is fascinating historical context, thank you.
The left isn’t just parliamentary politicians.
Fascinating discussion. It gives me hope.
Benn is one of my all time heroes - if only we listened to him in the mid 1970s.. What a wonderful politician
If the people on the left of the labour feel uncomfortable in the labour party, why not start a new political party that represents themselves and Jeremy Corbyn better than what the labour party does?
You mean The Green Party?
@@Shadowman4710 I mean, start a new political party like what reformed it on the right of politics for the left-leaning members of the labour party.
@@Jbaxter736because that's not how democracy in the jungle works. Politics makes strange bedfellows.
Really interesting and enjoyable conversation. Owen - one of the things you said towards the end about how vindictive the Labour right is (very true) was that you feared they could use their position in government - not just the party - to try to smash the left. Could you elaborate on this?
Great conversation trawling through some of the left versus right Labor history. Corbyn's 2019 as a "Goldwater moment" is a nice idea. Looking forward to reading Beckett's Searchers
I'm annoyed with the Greens for standing in every constituency, especially Ilford North, where Leanne Mohamed lost by only 528, much less than the number of votes won by the Greens. If the Green candidate had not stood then Leanne might have won.
All parties are out for themselves.
I have never experienced the diverse rallies, the enthusiasm, the younger people who joined the CLP, the hope and people prepared to do the groundwork that happened under Corbyn. It was amazing and had to be destroyed, didn't it?
Didn't Diane Abbott send her son to private school?
She did.
What is very worrying is that twice as many adults didn't vote as voted for the Labour Party. Has anyone tried to find out what these people would vote for.
Historically, and I suspect this is true of this election, it is disaffected Labour voters that tend to stay at home. Turnout was higher in 2017 when it felt like voting could actually lead to a change in direction
@@plebjames Perhaps a new party is needed that will lead to that change in direction. I think you are correct that it is disaffected Labour voters who stay at home when the turnout is 70%. The remaining 30% are still up for grabs. I suspect they are the poor and economically disenfranchised for whom there is no difference whether Labour or Tory wins.Any new party offering this 30% something will change things, along with a fairer voting system.
No point voting now, Blue Tories, Red Tories, Yellow Tories, Turquoise Tories. I'm more amazed that anyone still does.
The left needs to return to the wellbeing of people as their main purpose. Monopoly prices & rents need to be wiped out as a priority. The Chinese state owns 75% of everything thro state owned enterprises SOE & keeps everyday prices low for people - socialism with Chinese characteristics. A billion people raised out of poverty in 40 years sounds like socialism to me.
Kept together only because of Chinese lack of cultural individualism, ethnocentrism and a brutal authoritarian state. Not going to work in a multi-culti Britain destroyed by the left.
two thirds of the Chinese economy is privately owned.
Indeed-China lifted more people out of starvation than any other country on the planet-Russia not far behind after the 2017 revolution-it goes unreported in the West
You are praising an authoritarian regime which has gone full blown capitalist with a red coat or are we pretending now that people want to work 12h a day, up to 7d a week in sweatshops with NO UNION representation!? But lets stop here.
I'll gladly take it.
You can say it was Left 4 Dead… Sorry I will show myself out now
This is going to hell in a handbasket real fast!
Also, maybe the chopper...... Maybe it's made of chocolate!
I came here to write this.. but I scrolled down first...
You’re 39?! Bro i thought u were like 25
37:22 This is why New Labour has put so much time and energy into purging the Left.
@@marktaylor6491 So they can win elections?
thanks!! interesting discussion;
It’s always been dead in the head.
Going on safari. Made me chuckle and spot on . Incuriosity.
This guy lives in the past. Is social liberalism really going to work in a world of increasing class contradictions both globally and locally.
I was born in 47. I have never moved right. I was prepared to give centrism.under Blaira go and became dissolutioned as it became obvious after 2005 that iyt was not centrist at all , it was becoming conservative.
I'm a gen z who is left and I'm an American socialist I care more about people than myself even if I do it's hard but I'm still glad to be a humanist I care more about people than business I'm glad I care people including those like that in Palestine.
There's a fundamental question to ask, What is the point of the Labour right? Wouldn't some of these people be more mental well-adjusted and maybe even nicer people if they were, Conservatives?
Great upload.
You've done so many vids today it seems?? I can't keep-up.. maybe say more but I need some sleep.... so briefly I absolutely loved this discussion! It had that intellectual edge I sometimes miss & was just an encyclopaedic-roller- coster down memory lane (for some!). We are literally in need of this book because we're RIGHT NOW trying to work out what to do with all the energy & connectivity of the election. I campaigned for an Independent & we don't want to disband but not sure how to proceed, 😢should we be a party or not, are we joining-up with others or not? It's all to play for & reinvent & the excitement you discussed with Corbyn's previous campaign REMAINS! The right accused Livingston of WASTING MONEY on projects for minority groups but we created the concept of Black on Black (produced a magazine of the same name) which was the little-known precursor to Eastern Eye & I had that on my CV instead of clearing woman! Lastly how did you go all over-it-in & out & round & never ONCE mention that MURDOCH'S right- wing press was the REAL REASON LOONEY LEFT STUCK for so long & continues to this day! MARKETS & MONEY runs everything SURELY.. Trevor Chin et al bankrolled Blair & now Starmmer.. Israel lobby aside money talks & what Harrold Wilson was told after he won as to why he wasn't going to be able to put his policies into place holds true for any left-wing leader with socialist leanings. Whether they're voted in or not the rich right-wing in US & UK are the ruling elite....Trump doesn't have to be on the Whitehouse to run things he's proved this... Great chat guys & sounds like a must buy book ...bless-up Owen jones luvzya ❤
The left in the UK must far more focussed on domestic challenges and need to understand that palestine is one important topic but not the only one.
We’re arming Israel-meanwhile no money for the NHS …
That issue has opened up the lack of democracy, hypocrisy of rules based order, money for weapons and wars but not for our NHS and those going hungry.
It has shown the power of US and how UK are too privatising everything, welcoming Blackrock to buy up our infrastructure.
Also the power of fossil fuel cartels and the climate crisis
These issues are linked. A genocide is taking place funded, armed and given political cover by the UK and it's allies. It is not a marginal issue.
Very informative
Love the cat, Owen! Siamese cats are really smart!
Glenn Greenwald; What the UK and French elections mean for establishment politics in Europe
Lets not forget Dennis Skinner, The left is alive and well.
Soon
I don't have the patience to wait through 50 minutes of reminiscing about the 60's through the 80's for two minutes of current events. I'm genuinely curious about the current state of leftist affairs inside the UK but, I'm ten minutes in and tapping out. If someone can give me a timestamp where they start talking about things that matter now I'll try this again later.
I really think --- in view of the threat now posed by the far right (fascists) in several of the Western democracies (including here in the U.S.) --- that we need a strong center left/left wing movement that can elect more responsible, politically savvy, progressive-minded people into government here in the U.S. and Europe and show the electorate that they can govern sanely and sensibly, while delivering to the general public much of what they have proposed in their manifestoes or platforms.
After all, here in the U.S., we have had the New Deal and much of the Great Society initiatives and programs through which millions of Americans have benefited for close to the last 90 years. And in the UK, you had your beginnings of what later came to be the welfare state with the introduction of the 1909 Peoples' Budget by David Lloyd George. And of course, the progressive changes brought to the UK thanks to the Atlee government in the immediate post-World War II era.
_" the far right (fascists)"_
There is no Far-Right in any mainstream Western politics in general, unless we count Argentina. Also Fascists were Far-Left socialists.
I think the country needs a slight shift to the traditional left. But its probably not going to happen. So more people will vote Reform.
The Greens saved Streeting to a near certain defeat to a British Palestinian. They should have done the decent thing and stood down.
If there is no Left, there cannot be a Right, correct?
My favourite Tony Benn quote: "I left Parliament to concentrate on politics". Is "ism" a relatively new thing in British politics? I hear a lot about Thatcherism and Corbynism but I don't remember anyone talking about Wilsonism or Heathism back in the day. Thought Andy was going to give us a tune!
Carolyn Lucas said the same thing, quoting Benn.
IMO... the left should focus on providing the economic basics: education going in; livable wage/affordable housing once in, and universal single payer pensions going out; health care (including drugs) as a right at all times; state ownership of natural resources and basic infrastructure. They should just STFU about identity and cultural and the grab-bag of "personal rightgs to [fill in the blank].
It depends how you define the left. Neither labour nor the German Social Democrats are left.And the real left like Diem 25 is weak. Many young people unfortunately vote nationalist
It is dead. I used to proudly say I was left, but it has been warped and corrupted with people fighting the wrong battles.
What are the "right battles" for you? Seems like if you want to generalize the broad left as all fighting the wrong battles, you were never left in the first place.
@ 48 mins the most tragic story of the left ever - i fear the future
Are you going to talk about galloway?
He lost. What is left to say? He's pretty much finished and he's not a member of the modern left anyway.
Labour left leaders, Benn, Livingston, Corbyn have led the UK left.
"New" Labour is limited by their out dated view of UK workers. They have no conception of the gig ecconomy, zero hour contracts, or the precariate they produce.
Politics is swinging decisively to public ownership, common wealth, and away from the "market" free or not.
The label for which an electorate votes, eg Green, Independed, etc, is not as significant as the pokicies and integrety of the people standing.
It takes communication to spread messages into a time poor, attention deprived voters. Fortunately we have the tools, smart phones and alt media, to reach and engage electorates.
My grandad he Lord Provost Glasgow city council in 1970 to (Labour win 1997) he lost his seat SNP in 1977 local government elections in Scotland he old Labour party he working class or middle class long time ago. Phil O Rourke. He Irish councillor in Glasgow city he wealthy Thomas.
Eh?
it is so unfair to say that there was rising living standards in 1997 because of a credit bubble that later went pop! This is wrong. I was there. at uni in 97. There were rising living standards, homes were affordable, rent was affordable, uni was free, and interest rates were perfectly norammal and affordable at 6 or 7%.
The credit bubble came afterwards, unaffordable housing came from Labour. and the Lonon that I knew: as[iring working classes, some wanting a home and lucrative career, some wanting to become artists, actors, filmm akers was absolutley doable. There was confidence.
That ended. And New Labour ended it What is gentrification? The end of free spirit adventurous aspirational. I detest New Labour waffling on about aspiration. they fecking killed it
John Macdonalds moved to the right as shadow Chancellor but we had a vibrant critical movement of different economists which led is still there but more diffused.
Year after Year Benn would give fantastic speeches tearing the Labour Party then end by saying join Labour.
This tribalism has stopped the left but not the ruthless right from pushing their agenda.
Just bought the book, thanks for the heads up. Though I lack space, so I have to get Amazon Kindle books, I hope Amazon leaves enough for Andy 😅
Meeting you with a View To A Kill
(Voltaire)
Owen I know this is a completely irrelevant point and so out of context, but your skin is BANGING, mate. What do you use on it?
I have always been left wing, and am in the Labour Party. People who are left wing are welcomed in the Labour Party. This is your home.
So why were so many potential Labour candidates, hard working and well-liked locally, blocked from standing because they were left wing?
@@sososoprano1 Because they made statements which were damaging to the Party. We all know what we shouldn't say. Being left wing also means be polite and considering others.
@@peace-now - no, that’s not what happened. Everyone should be able to disagree about policy, discuss matters, then hopefully come to an agreement. Wilson understood that by having a diverse cabinet, better policy was likely to result because it meant that people had to think things through more deeply.
Those candidates that were blocked from standing were Labour stalwarts, working hard for Labour and for their communities. Greg Marshall, for instance, who was one of the first to be blocked, didn’t say anything that was damaging to the party. That’s why the CLP officials resigned when he wasn’t allowed to stand simply because he wasn’t a right winger.
@@peace-now - in any case, supporting genocide is FAR more damaging to the party than disagreeing with one or two policies.
@@sososoprano1 No one I know of in the Labour Party supports genocide. It is certainly not Labour policy. Anyone accusing the Party of this would not be welcome in the Party with these views.
As the white middle class go left the white working class go right. Funny old world.
Yes it's dying as farright implement their ideas using those same fragile reasons from what socialism was seen as a social and human necessity
I was very happy to see Hilary Benn become NI Secretary, I do like it when they send us an adult !!
Starvarism
❤❤❤
The sun energized universal world 🌎 life is a mass of repeating universal elements as new life comes along so let's hope things get better for everyone a world 🌍 society based on love kindness and care would be great for life to progress well. !!!!!!!!
Lots of universal love everyone Colin 💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖
Looking at the bigger universal world 🌎 picture everyone
Love to you both
Labour always subscribed to all the imperialist bs. He " did one thing little bit left' is sickening.
Labour Right support Israel lobby..possibly tricky for these 2 guardian journos to discuss
Left is Best
I don't think Owen Jones has quite understood what is meant by "the left is dead" in the Platypus sense of the term.
This man is so beautiful! I want to put my face next to the arch of his foot!!
Are you going to talk about life outside the labour party? What now?
Maybe older people don't shift to the right, they just become more cautious. That can mean voting for the moderate left over the radical right.
I was real left wing and accepting of all, this all dies when you realise certain communities literally want you dead and want to remove democracy for theocracy.
Really enjoyable to hear you guys agree with one another for an hour (jk)
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I love listening to Owen. It must be a similar experience to going to Bedlam hospital in the 18th century to see the screening loons.
I imagine that sounded funny in your head
coz he was wrongly accused of anti-semitism ya naff
How do most of you guys still make profit, even with the downturn of the economy and ever increasing life standards
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No, just totally useless.
If Biden wins, yes.
As opposed to who, Trump?
@@AlphaCentCom Yes. If genocide is allowed to go electorally unpunished by the 'left', for fear of a Donald Trump presidency, I think it's the final nail in the coffin for left-wing politics.
@ryanm7097 You activists throw that word around without meaning. While looking a blind eye to what Hamas want. This is why people hate far left activists.
Owen, have you given up on the poor innocent children in G A Z A?
Everytime one of you jokes about children's deaths, more people become pro Palestine.
You clearly don't understand humanity anymore.
Politicians in the West dictates the future of Israel. As long as we vote for globalists, nothing will change.
You could say both left and right is dead, all we have is a nuanced centre. That's if you insist on seeing politics as a left right thing
Are you from a different universe
Except... no?
If you choose left or right you are the problem especially now 😢
LOL, "enlightened centrism".
The NHS is left wing
@@wesleystreet hardly
That makes no sense whatsoever.
@@sososoprano1 we have a 2 party system who serve the same masters and it needs to stop it's making sense all over the world so research and it will make sense
here in England the left is beaten, broken, divided and still sulking Corbyn lost twice
I think after Starmer's performance at NATO, along with the rest of the warmongers, we soon won't have to worry about anything.
@@threedoodles- Agreed! Starmer is extremely worrying right now, Authorising the release of U.K. Weapons to be used against Russia???
This is a truly dangerous despot, he might well embroil us in a War with Russia….. and that won’t end well for the U.K…..especially if it escalates to a Nuclear Confrontation, we would be totally wiped off the face of the Earth!!!
And yet Corbyn is still there and the Greens are on the rise.
“Sulking” isn’t the right word because that implies that we weren’t allowed something that was bad for us. There’s still a sadness, though, that we lost the chance to make the country noticeably better for all.
Blair and Starmer are winners. The far left hate winners.
I’m conservative and I’m socialist so does that make me “left?” Not in the least.
Your schizophrenic!🤣
You're either an old-school Conservative, before Maggie Neoliberalised it, or you're the strangest person in the world lol... Smart and caring enough to be a Soclialist, dumb and gullible enough to be a Conservative at the same time lmao.
What Conservatives believes do you believe in?
Do you know what any of those words mean
You're confused.
Irresponsible click bait. I'm disgusted by this video title. Add a time when both France and the UK voted in left-leaning candidates. And yes I'm aware of the inherently have problems. Add America is trying desperately to refocus on a candidate that can take down Donald Trump. And this is your response? How hurting for viewers are you. This is just sad
The title literally refers to claims that the left is dead as 'nonsense', so I'm confused what the issue is?
UK voted in left-leaning candidates??? Missed that one...
I mean, the answer is clearly no...
Have you even watch the video?
Left leaning-😂😂😂😂😂-you’ve shifted so far right-Reform are now considered left wing
Owen, did you join the LPYS?
So, Owen..you are an independent now, I trust?😮
He’s a true humanitarian-that’s more important
He supports Greens and progressive independents.
It isn't dead. It's just unelectable. Very much like the US, the UK public are naturally right of centre. The problems emerge when the far left act like the far right. We've seen this with you, Owen. Obsessing on wedge issues like Gaza. Actively campaigning to keep the tories in by undermining Labour on issues where the UK has absolutely no influence. It was petulant and childish, especially as you appear to have done absolutely nothing beyond talk about these issues. To remind you..4.3 million children, that's 30%, are living in poverty in the UK. 1 in 20 don't even have a bed to sleep in. I think you've burnt you bridges with Labour and have made yourself politically homeless. Well done!