ECTL's problems stem from a lack of upkeep, and slowdown resulting from tiering by committee. Ships rarely budge from their positions once placed, and it typically takes a long time for the impact of augments to be evaluated in spite such ships obviously needing priority for re-tiering. Kawakaze's the epitome of everything that can go wrong on this list, marked as tiered for her augment, but her actual page says she hasn't been reevaluated yet. Still the best tier list for this game for general information and accessibility as far as I'm concerned, but the lack of scholarly dedication, timely updates, and housekeeping leaves plenty of room for criticism.
Refreshing to see well thought out criticisms. This is valid and is an unfortunate result of the list's age; enthusiasm for the game naturally declines over time for us vets and we have had very few new evaluators over the list's lifespan. This is to be expected as who the hell wants to be an evaluator? We did update Kawakaze's tierings since this video has gone up, the timing for the release of this video was actually impeccable because we had a "yelling sesh" (our term for evaluators meeting and updating the list) scheduled that took place less than an hour after this video went up xD
@@YuniversalYT I had a hunch that was the case, and that's natural for a perpetual project funded by passion alone. My own enthusiasm for the game is waning due to some of Manjuu's decisions, lack of new content, and URs damaging the game's nuance (and in that context, I would certainly understand the lack of enthusiasm for evaluating; tiering doesn't really seem necessary when you already know URs/DRs are just going to be categorically the best, rendering most SSRs/Elites filler), so I can hardly hold that against anyone. Good to hear that things are still slowly chugging along, even if you're shorthanded, and I appreciate the work you all put into maintaining this essential resource for newcomers and veterans alike. Since I've got your ear, something Jimmy highlighted in the video and I agree with is that the tagging can be rather inconsistent (or nonexistent). While on some level it could be considered a nitpick, it does have an effect on the user experience. Shinano is a good example, having support abilities that contribute greatly to her fleet's effectiveness, but she has no support tag. I had considered that this is because tags are supposed to indicate features that ships rely on to qualify for their tier and Shinano still qualifies as a standalone performer, however this clashes with the site's feature allowing users to browse ships by tag: Players searching for ships with support abilities want to see all of them, not just those who need them for tier placement. While I know you guys have a lot on your plate at the moment, it would be worth eventually revisiting the tagging system to address this, especially since being able to search ships by specific roles/qualifiers stemming from skills is a unique feature that neither the actual game nor even wiki has.
@7Seven-Four4 This is a feature that has been requested a few times in the past and it's not a bad idea. However, it is something that would require building and then maintaining a separate system to the current tags that we use to specify tiering conditions. Unfortunately, chugging along isn't an incorrect description of how we're operating these days-we're still testing, writing, and updating as the game changes, but I don't see us rolling out such a major feature any time soon. Thanks for your kind words.
Especially for the PvP tier list, the ships in the upper tiers of that list were META more than a year ago and it doesn’t include even META changing ships such as Musashi
The real reason why I use that tierlist (thank you btw to those who made and contributed that website despite having somethings I disagree with) is to see which gears to put on a shipgirl even after playing this game daily since when I started which was around feb 2020, I still don't know which gear is good on shipgirl Other informative lists about gears and which to put on shipgirl would be nice, there's only so much slaimuda can offer.
How ironic that this video came out this weekend as I spent a lot of it writing the update to my PvP tier list review. So you should see the updated PvP tier list fairly soon.
Im glad I wasn’t crazy for thinking Scylla was low on this list. I’ve only been playing since she released, but I thought she was definitely at least Tier 0
The blue gun is generally better dps in terms of proc all assault meanwhile the UR dd gun generally better for general usage and won't rely on barrage alone plus HE is effective against Bomb boats but it's slow compared to other shells and the AA bonus on the UR dd gun helps to up her AA stats In conclusion, Blue Gun for dps UR gun for General use Ps: Scylla is my only oathed ship
Thank you for pointing out the lack of oxytorps.. Ive had people get mad at me for using them when theres no chance of shimakaze dying just because the ectl doesnt recommend it lol
My main gripe about this tier list is how low ship buffers are rated. Especially ARA or ships with similar buffs, Sirius, Stephen Potter, Hammann II etc do not deserve to be in TIer 2 and 4, and you've already talked about Kazagumo.
from what ive seen the tierlist makers are very divided when it comes to ARA ships especially, some value it more than others. I guess democracy won out in the end
18:17 the Tenzen Kai is the 3rd picture in the slot above the Tenzen (you can cycle through them by clicking on the image thats in the background) 33min, damn we eatin' good tonight
The issue with this tier list is not in their placement but how slow they are to update said list. The community behind this tier list bases their prelim off of datamines and theoretical dps/eHP. And nothing is wrong with that specifically... in fact, it is really good in determining early on whether to pursue certain characters. But once that prelim is decided, it takes months to even years for community to agree on an update because of due process mentioned by Jimmy early in the video. Unless someone has a solid, irrefutable raw data and hours of video proof, you will be ridiculed and spat out by the community until one or more mods come around and start to take you seriously. This by no means is a detriment to the tier list itself but... it requires a great effort to bring any changes to their lists, making majority of their decisions STAY in prelim for months on end (as in... assumed expected dps or eHP)
The PvP tier list is seriously outdated; it doesn't account for basically any post-NJ additions (notably a bunch of new rainbow BBs). All the non-ship info is still good, though.
Azur Lane Meta's cooking with an update now, he's given us Ninjas and ECTL Evaluators of the not-yet-final tierings for the ships that he and his team of PvP:tm: experts has decided on As for the Pvp spreadsheet, it's a concerted effort between three pvpers. Definitely is more updated to contemporary times, however it only deals with fleet compositions and gear, lacking the advice on how to move in the PvP ladder.
I think AL tier lists would be more helpful if ships are broken down not just by class, but by roles. The Usagi tier list somewhat tries to do this with the support section, but it's still too generalized. Most people just want to know what are the best ships for each role within a fleet, and if they don't have those, what are the next best alternatives, and so on. The massive amount of T0-1 ships in the ECTL makes it confusing for new players, like you said they should drop all the irrelevant ships to TN and expand on the ones that matter.
I wonder which comes first? This game become EoS or Slaimuda finally gets updated? Also if not mistaken, aren't those ppl responsible for maintaining the site playing Blue Archive or Star Rail rn? If so, then no wonder it took centuries to have the tier list updated bcz they focussed on other games too much.
I am pleased to report that Kawakaze and (more importantly) Scylla have since been moved up to Tier 0. Perhaps they viewed your videos? Either way, you're doing the Lord's work, Jimmy.
Weird, I always assumed that Oxytorps were simply in the 9 stack of "use if survivability is not a concern" items. For me, when I look at a tierlist I am usually trying to fill a role for my fleet. Most of mine are simplistic fleets, vanguard/main are whatever ship I am researching, main is 1 BB and 2 cv, or 2 bb and 1 cv, despite having all of the UR BBS I still rarely try full BB fleets. My vanguards are CB/CA, DD, CL, because that is what I first learned them as, the only exceptions were the An Shan twins, but Chang Chung somehow reset her affection rating so she is now dead to me. So, in cases where I am looking for a CL I am usually trying to figure out if the random wifu I grabbed was a good choice for that slot. I mentioned Magdenberg in another of your videos, you pointed to a review you had (thanks btw) where you talked about how synching her skill with airstrikes was damn near impossible and that she can't use a DD gun. For me, I was looking at her defensive skill and her baked in FP/TRP/AA buffs. The numbers (in my dumb brain) made me think "Well, she has good base/buffed base stats, occasional steroids and nice mitigation". I guess it comes down to the school of thought I was stuck in which is CBs tank, CLs are utility and your DDS do most of your damage, I think a more wholistic look at things is "I need x stats/abilities to make it through Y content, what wifus are useable." Also, tier lists kinda break my brain, because with the ECT it will have say, all of the UR BBs in the same tier, all listed with BiS gear, I would look at my depot/ships and go, well, I have one UR gun, does this make or break whether a specific Ship stays in or drops down a tier, if so by how much.
Her defensive skill isn't good. Hitcount Shields are kinda bad when late game is pretty much bullet hell, if you want a tanky CL you need EVA/Evasion Rate/Damage Reduction, and that skill's second effect is pretty inconsistent since it checks for marked enemies. It could be better in a bossing/single targe scenario, but we get back at the problem with her synching timing. About her self buffs, they're decent but there's A LOT of statstick CL ships, that's where the no DD gun nor MGM+1 problem surfaces.
I always recommend the new guildmates to this guide just to give them a general overview but ill go into VC with them or send them your vids or other AL-tubers if they want more detailed.
honestly, i mostly use this list to get a certain feel of where a ship is but more importantly, as someone completely overwhelmed by the gearing aspect of the game, without this list i would be completely lost in the sauce
19:58 yup, you 100% called it. They've hated that people list Ark royal in other tier lists as T0 because of "specific" fights, to the point where they're so overly harsh on her, that it ends up exactly like you said. I do disagree with the "just shove the lower ships in TN", mainly just because right now I'm trying to find ships from X faction that I don't have 120 for the PR grind. Unfortunately when you shove EVERYONE in TN, it makes it super hard to identify between levels of bad... Sure, someone who's played enough to get that many ships 120 can likely just actually look at the ship on paper to see what's good, but sometimes you just wanna be lazy and see who's the least shit low tier ship.
i don't know if this is talked about but does fleet tech matters on deciding the tier? i mean, RLD stat on CV is probably talk around so much on deciding syncing stuff. if it matters, i think the ECTL Eval team should put that on regard as "the ship evaluated are on 'no fleet tech bonus' so there's no discrepancy on stat evaluation'. or i dunno, last i hear that stat doesn't matter in most situation. please enlighten me on this subject (for tier list argument especially).
Their obsession with Ark Royal comes from their “New Players Guide” where she becomes highly recommended to make it through progression vs destroyer campaign maps. I don’t think they could diverge from how pivotal she was during their play through. I also think she was put their for her accessibility, so really nothing that they say they rate on. But alas. Is Kawakaze really that good? Genuinely asking. And thank you for your content.
Honestly, my biggest problem with their tierlist is the gathering of people who use it as their gospel for equipment use, when things like the AL wiki exists. They get stuck in the mindset of "These are the best guns" when in reality its a matter of experimentation for most ships. Particularly barrage battleships, which typically these days don't have strong enough barrages to warrant using a weaker main gun with faster reload for the chance of more damage from a barrage, when the barrage is just a nice to have rather than the mainstay of a ship's armament. And also CA's, where, given it's orientated towards beginners, the fact that equipment is ranked equally for all ships means that certain ships are painted in a bleak light when the recommended equipment is a gun that takes 6 months to grind(the 234mm gun), when a ship has skills which enables other weapons to compete with it on equal footing are available and much cheaper. Or just some gear not appearing at all for certain ships(Tallinn, just not even having the gear lab 150mm gold prototype gun as a recommended given her skills even though it shows up on light cruisers with AP buffs, among other oddities). But again, that might also just be a problem that's just become increasingly glaring with time and repeated use of it as a good guide for AL. And people still believing that, of course.
Specifically regarding Tallinn and the Twin 150skc, we don't recommend it because there's really no situation where you'd make one instead of the currently listed main guns for her. If you're fighting medium or heavy, it's worse than the easily available CA gun alternatives (the bog-standard Twin 203skc, or the Baltimore gun if we're doing an apples to apples, gear lab weapon to gear lab weapon comparison) and it's worse vs light compared to those alternatives too (the gear lab-craftable Algerie and HMS HE CA guns).
I don't really care about tier lists, but I do enjoy hearing yuo go over the reasons for their placement. Maybe its the piano music that makes it both relaxing and informative. :D
fuck you are sooooooo funnnnnnnny and i am not just saying that because I'm drunk also thanks for the easy drinking game................... (^w^)b your content is much better after like 10 min of drinking. Really makes that first 3rd of the video better. You soooo fucking funnny
Biggest problem with list can be seen the moment you open it. We already in 4th day of event, we knew it's coming long before, and still "No active event". Even putting banner takes so long. When i can see ship proper placed? 1 month after release? 2,3, year? When i started playing AL this list was my bread and butter. But after 2-3 month you can already see flaws here and there. Esp PVP list stuck somewhere 1+ year ago in timeline. This day i still go there, but only cuz i'm lazy to read skills of ships i farm for perma stats to check if they need faster or slower gun, and dmg AA or accelerator AA.
@@AzurLaneMeta Thx for the info. Not like i care about pvp that much. Just saw it been least updated. But sure will help many other ppl. Esp those who trying to get to AOTN first time.
From lurking in the discord, I can tell you that the ability to contest anything is non-existent. They pretty much shut you down right away. I'm glad you pointed out all the inconsistencies. I would hope this would make them re-evaluate their lists but i doubt that will happen.
disagree with that, you just have to mention sutff that makes sence. They made Kawakaze T0 now, Scylla T0, I mentioned to downtier Neptune to T2, they did it. So yeah, worked for me ig.
@@ixosenpai its mostly because of this video. I've never personally made requests but I've seen people since I've been in there over a year or so get shot down HARD without any real discussion. It would mostly be belittlement. It's the first time they've used the discussion room in months.
@@tierlis422 We get a LOT of "contentions" that boil down to "because I think so" or are blatantly antagonistic against us or straight up trolls. We take serious contentions into consideration, and just because we end up not agreeing with them doesn't mean we ignored them. People love to come into our discord expecting the worst and never even give us a chance, the moment we disagree we are labeled as inadequate :shrug: surely you understand some of the bitterness. If you lurk and cherry pick out all the things you dislike and parade it around like its the entire story, it doesn't help us improve.
@@YuniversalYT Don't mean to be rude but you should see some of the stuff that your other contributors say for the past year. Just because people's opinions might differ from you doesn't justify your other contributors' passive aggressive comments about the contentions' IQ as if like they have some sort of brain dysfunction or sorts is
@@Ascent1520 I'm sure some of the evaluators' comments are misplaced, I won't defend that. Personally I resort to only calling other evaluators braindead xD or regulars who have made it clear they are fine with the banter. Perhaps new users come in and are intimidated by the lack of chat moderation, but I do think it has slowly improved as some problematic users have gotten banned from the server over time. It's far from perfect but we do genuinely appreciate new users and those who come in with a serious contention. Also remember that each evaluator is their own person, if you don't get along with one doesn't mean you can't get along with another.
I think for beginners who don't know what they are doing this list is not bad but for a lot more advanced players it's pretty redundant and there are much better option like the best Azur Lane youtuber alive, Jimmy, like who needs anything else. His tier lists are so good you don't even have to play AL to know what's going on like really
I've asked this before and the answer was "because she's so expensive for what she is" which is fine, and true, but their tier list does specifically say that cost is no issue. I got the impression there was a fairly serious collective hateboner going on over there, so I moved on. I'd pick her 100% of the time over Monarch, anyway, who's placed a tier ahead. YMMV, of course.
I was really interested in hearing what you had to say, especially since I find the ECTL a bit lacking in the same ways you did, but the way you pronounce "indomitable" is painful! LOL
I only use tier lists for gear selection, I don't really care who deals a lot of damage, etc. (I skipped New Jersey). The main thing for me is that my waifu have the most suitable equipment❤ Sorry for my english ^^
you should do a Site like that IF YOU HAVE TIME. It will give you ads money and make you very important for the community, maybe you don't realize that most people just want a motivated and up to date tier list. Yeah can be a hard time consuming task even a job to this point but I'm sure you you put the effort to make a good tier list, and equip load + no allergies to rainbow dildo + up to date + decent look at the game that will help everyone will se that as useful.
I would say ark royal is overrated in their tier list. I tried to use her so much but this rng is so bad that she is more useless than 60% of other CVs
Simply recommend that z1 could be bumped up a tire because of the new gold German dd's then they started bringing in cls and shema to claim that putting Z1 up with Z23 should not happen. The also said that it's to much of a specific comp to concider otto and Felix in her tiring but Z23 and Z46 somehow aren't
overall a decent tier list, but i would rank avora, stephen potter, and chise higher. comparing chise and aquila, Chise offer way more then aquila. with aquila u cant either chose to heal or preload. Chise offer both shield and preload in a silge setup. aquila 224 loadout give her the advantage against heavy armor boss but chise 233 load give her the advantage against all 3 boss. the rainbow eagle dive will give chise the advantage on ligh and med armor boss. the shield on 1st and 3rd airstrike will give vanguard som nice protection. Chise also have multiple barrage aswell for some added dmg in between air strike avora, theres probably no better vanguard buffer then her and her dmg is decent as well. Stephen Potter, imo shes probably the 2nd best air raid assistance DD in the game. the 10% dmg reduction to front most vangard and 10% increase dmg to backmost vanguard is not bad. in a carrier set up, with a tank in teh front most gettign an additional 10% dmg reduction and ur vanguard Damage Dealer in teh back most position gettign another 10% dmg buff not bad either.
Their pvp tier list is made by Azur Lane Meta who actually is the best PvPer in EN as mentioned in his videos. What you are saying here is ALM made a bad guide.
@@keion_arknights pretty sure he still uses NJ Aquila Veneto, given Musashi event ended October 5th, 2022 and his latest video on PvP is 24th Oct 2022 with NJ Aquila Veneto. As ALM have mentioned he is the best pvp player in EN, he should be correct.
@@Ascent1520 Well, one look at his channel would tell you that he doesn't run PvP too much these days. And he did run a community event more recently for PvP, where basically anyone worth their salt was using Musashi because she was just that busted, that plus NJ and Aquila was the premier PvP backline(I was personally using Mus, NJ and Shinano because I didn't have Aquila at the time and Shinano did well enough), which ALM swapped to I think at some point later on in the competition's running. It does pay to keep up with the times.
Biased, outdated and full of laziness tier list. The more you use/refer to it, the more you understand how bad this list works. Majority of equipment is generated by some templates, so sometimes it goes from "better than nothing for beginners" to complete trash. And the worst part is that lots of ppl prays to this list like to Holy Bible, and ready to cut your throat if you disagree with it
@@anHS801 I'll say this again If someone request their data and tests results they should provide them. Additionally if someone challenges Thier veiws on a ship using a logical basis wether the dissenter is wrong or right they should work with the individual not be a little. As far as I'm concerned if you can not provide your proof of ranking or treating others with some semblance of respect when they disagree with you you should remove the list
@@ProjectAtlasmodling you provided useless data and refused to test yourself you were given the issues with your tests and what a better test would be, and rather than actually go and try and prove your point, you've just malded for years you were wrong about z2 then and you're wrong now
Why do u care about Z2 so much? She's so weak compared to other higher rarity ones. Also, why you only care about Z2 but not other underwhelming TN destroyers? I sense bias and favoritism here lol
@@yousefseed1874 this event happened 3 almost four years ago most of these DD people drule over didn't exist adding to that does bring up something that happened years ago bring you validation? Are you that desperate for a preserved W that you need to dreg up something for the past to get it
Their PvP tier list is embarrassingly bad. (Loadout is 2/3 of what determines who wins.) And not recommending oxy torps on ships like Shimakaze is proof they have no clue WTF they're doing. TL;DR their entire rationale for their top tiers = "UR = win."
@@TheGhostFart ALM himself said he is the best PvPer, both in Azur Lane & Blue Archive, and have shown screenshots to back them up. He mentioned that his guide is updated already as there is no reason to include Musashi into the PvP comp despite most people using it.
@@Ascent1520 Made a year ago? Do you even PvP, bro? There's not a single team that uses Aquila that consistently hits top ten, LMAO. It could be made by Jesus Christ and the facts don't change.
No thank you, I'll stick with Usagi's tier list. If anyone needs clarification, they apparently test in W12-14 (despite their claims about not considering AA) and the complete absence of oxytorps is due to their "fuck manual" mentality.
ECTL is pretty flawed and their community is pretty abrasive, definitely not my jam but if you unironically think usagi's list is better something is wrong with you lmao. That list is straight up TERRIBLE. ECTL at least has a good presentation and other helpful information outside of their tiers. It sounds like you just have a personal grudge against the people who run it rather than the list itself and would take any opportunity to shit on it.
I mean, no one plays manual outside EX stages, because you can literally clear everything on auto. Also Usagi TL might be one of the worst tier lists I've ever seen, but if it helps you, good then.
@@Leanjicaa As someone who is working on hitting 120 with every ship in the game, I manual all the time. I level up every ship after lvl 115 in W14-4 manual, which lets me clear it with even common rarity ships. Using 125 ships to grind is just a lazy waste of oil unless you've already max leveled the ~700 ships in the game.
Quick correction for your ark royal. She is kitted with the tenzan kai's, second slot has 3 planes in it. Click through and the kai's are the third one in the slot. Edit: never mind someone beat me to it. P.S. as a newish player (been playing for maybe 6 months) this list has been beyond helpful. When i first started out I didn't know how to build a fleet or what gear to use. And sure this list might not be as up kept as it should, but this list and it's notes helped me build fleets and units. Honestly love this list for helping me make a good boss and mob fleet and generally helping me build ships. So if you put work into this tier list no matter how small, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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ECTL's problems stem from a lack of upkeep, and slowdown resulting from tiering by committee. Ships rarely budge from their positions once placed, and it typically takes a long time for the impact of augments to be evaluated in spite such ships obviously needing priority for re-tiering. Kawakaze's the epitome of everything that can go wrong on this list, marked as tiered for her augment, but her actual page says she hasn't been reevaluated yet. Still the best tier list for this game for general information and accessibility as far as I'm concerned, but the lack of scholarly dedication, timely updates, and housekeeping leaves plenty of room for criticism.
good points
Refreshing to see well thought out criticisms. This is valid and is an unfortunate result of the list's age; enthusiasm for the game naturally declines over time for us vets and we have had very few new evaluators over the list's lifespan. This is to be expected as who the hell wants to be an evaluator?
We did update Kawakaze's tierings since this video has gone up, the timing for the release of this video was actually impeccable because we had a "yelling sesh" (our term for evaluators meeting and updating the list) scheduled that took place less than an hour after this video went up xD
@@YuniversalYT I had a hunch that was the case, and that's natural for a perpetual project funded by passion alone. My own enthusiasm for the game is waning due to some of Manjuu's decisions, lack of new content, and URs damaging the game's nuance (and in that context, I would certainly understand the lack of enthusiasm for evaluating; tiering doesn't really seem necessary when you already know URs/DRs are just going to be categorically the best, rendering most SSRs/Elites filler), so I can hardly hold that against anyone. Good to hear that things are still slowly chugging along, even if you're shorthanded, and I appreciate the work you all put into maintaining this essential resource for newcomers and veterans alike.
Since I've got your ear, something Jimmy highlighted in the video and I agree with is that the tagging can be rather inconsistent (or nonexistent). While on some level it could be considered a nitpick, it does have an effect on the user experience. Shinano is a good example, having support abilities that contribute greatly to her fleet's effectiveness, but she has no support tag. I had considered that this is because tags are supposed to indicate features that ships rely on to qualify for their tier and Shinano still qualifies as a standalone performer, however this clashes with the site's feature allowing users to browse ships by tag: Players searching for ships with support abilities want to see all of them, not just those who need them for tier placement. While I know you guys have a lot on your plate at the moment, it would be worth eventually revisiting the tagging system to address this, especially since being able to search ships by specific roles/qualifiers stemming from skills is a unique feature that neither the actual game nor even wiki has.
@7Seven-Four4 This is a feature that has been requested a few times in the past and it's not a bad idea. However, it is something that would require building and then maintaining a separate system to the current tags that we use to specify tiering conditions. Unfortunately, chugging along isn't an incorrect description of how we're operating these days-we're still testing, writing, and updating as the game changes, but I don't see us rolling out such a major feature any time soon. Thanks for your kind words.
Especially for the PvP tier list, the ships in the upper tiers of that list were META more than a year ago and it doesn’t include even META changing ships such as Musashi
Eventually: A tier list of the tierlists.
The real reason why I use that tierlist (thank you btw to those who made and contributed that website despite having somethings I disagree with) is to see which gears to put on a shipgirl
even after playing this game daily since when I started which was around feb 2020, I still don't know which gear is good on shipgirl
Other informative lists about gears and which to put on shipgirl would be nice, there's only so much slaimuda can offer.
How ironic that this video came out this weekend as I spent a lot of it writing the update to my PvP tier list review. So you should see the updated PvP tier list fairly soon.
Im glad I wasn’t crazy for thinking Scylla was low on this list. I’ve only been playing since she released, but I thought she was definitely at least Tier 0
She does so much damage with the fast blue DD gun
@@Gamer-zg2wb ikr, her barrage is insanely OP and her base AA efficiency (145%) is high asf
The blue gun is generally better dps in terms of proc all assault meanwhile the UR dd gun generally better for general usage and won't rely on barrage alone plus HE is effective against Bomb boats but it's slow compared to other shells and the AA bonus on the UR dd gun helps to up her AA stats
In conclusion, Blue Gun for dps UR gun for General use
Ps: Scylla is my only oathed ship
Thank you for pointing out the lack of oxytorps..
Ive had people get mad at me for using them when theres no chance of shimakaze dying just because the ectl doesnt recommend it lol
Shimakaze is as tanky or tankier than most SR CAs. Why bother to give her toolbox when she's tanky enough lol
I find this tier list helpful. I like the notes that are included with many ships.
Probably the best part
Its just like Jimmy said. Its a really good tier list to help less experienced players and people like me who dont care too much about min-maxing
Keep these coming since there's barely any scrutiny in this community
COCK TIERLIST IS HERE
My main gripe about this tier list is how low ship buffers are rated. Especially ARA or ships with similar buffs, Sirius, Stephen Potter, Hammann II etc do not deserve to be in TIer 2 and 4, and you've already talked about Kazagumo.
from what ive seen the tierlist makers are very divided when it comes to ARA ships especially, some value it more than others. I guess democracy won out in the end
18:17 the Tenzen Kai is the 3rd picture in the slot above the Tenzen (you can cycle through them by clicking on the image thats in the background)
33min, damn we eatin' good tonight
jimmy you should make a tierlist website of your own!
The issue with this tier list is not in their placement but how slow they are to update said list.
The community behind this tier list bases their prelim off of datamines and theoretical dps/eHP. And nothing is wrong with that specifically... in fact, it is really good in determining early on whether to pursue certain characters.
But once that prelim is decided, it takes months to even years for community to agree on an update because of due process mentioned by Jimmy early in the video. Unless someone has a solid, irrefutable raw data and hours of video proof, you will be ridiculed and spat out by the community until one or more mods come around and start to take you seriously. This by no means is a detriment to the tier list itself but... it requires a great effort to bring any changes to their lists, making majority of their decisions STAY in prelim for months on end (as in... assumed expected dps or eHP)
The people who run it are on an ego try and don't like it when people say they may be wrong
The PvP tier list is seriously outdated; it doesn't account for basically any post-NJ additions (notably a bunch of new rainbow BBs). All the non-ship info is still good, though.
The PVP tier list updated on their discord and they put a very extensive list on some excel table on Google drive. The last update was 21/06
Azur Lane Meta's cooking with an update now, he's given us Ninjas and ECTL Evaluators of the not-yet-final tierings for the ships that he and his team of PvP:tm: experts has decided on
As for the Pvp spreadsheet, it's a concerted effort between three pvpers. Definitely is more updated to contemporary times, however it only deals with fleet compositions and gear, lacking the advice on how to move in the PvP ladder.
who cares about pvp lmao
@@sanmarinocornedtuna5166 Just win lel
@@Kodoji The spreadsheet and ECTL/ALM's tierlist were made by two different groups.
I think AL tier lists would be more helpful if ships are broken down not just by class, but by roles. The Usagi tier list somewhat tries to do this with the support section, but it's still too generalized.
Most people just want to know what are the best ships for each role within a fleet, and if they don't have those, what are the next best alternatives, and so on.
The massive amount of T0-1 ships in the ECTL makes it confusing for new players, like you said they should drop all the irrelevant ships to TN and expand on the ones that matter.
I wonder which comes first? This game become EoS or Slaimuda finally gets updated?
Also if not mistaken, aren't those ppl responsible for maintaining the site playing Blue Archive or Star Rail rn? If so, then no wonder it took centuries to have the tier list updated bcz they focussed on other games too much.
I am pleased to report that Kawakaze and (more importantly) Scylla have since been moved up to Tier 0. Perhaps they viewed your videos? Either way, you're doing the Lord's work, Jimmy.
Weird, I always assumed that Oxytorps were simply in the 9 stack of "use if survivability is not a concern" items. For me, when I look at a tierlist I am usually trying to fill a role for my fleet. Most of mine are simplistic fleets, vanguard/main are whatever ship I am researching, main is 1 BB and 2 cv, or 2 bb and 1 cv, despite having all of the UR BBS I still rarely try full BB fleets. My vanguards are CB/CA, DD, CL, because that is what I first learned them as, the only exceptions were the An Shan twins, but Chang Chung somehow reset her affection rating so she is now dead to me. So, in cases where I am looking for a CL I am usually trying to figure out if the random wifu I grabbed was a good choice for that slot.
I mentioned Magdenberg in another of your videos, you pointed to a review you had (thanks btw) where you talked about how synching her skill with airstrikes was damn near impossible and that she can't use a DD gun. For me, I was looking at her defensive skill and her baked in FP/TRP/AA buffs. The numbers (in my dumb brain) made me think "Well, she has good base/buffed base stats, occasional steroids and nice mitigation". I guess it comes down to the school of thought I was stuck in which is CBs tank, CLs are utility and your DDS do most of your damage, I think a more wholistic look at things is "I need x stats/abilities to make it through Y content, what wifus are useable."
Also, tier lists kinda break my brain, because with the ECT it will have say, all of the UR BBs in the same tier, all listed with BiS gear, I would look at my depot/ships and go, well, I have one UR gun, does this make or break whether a specific Ship stays in or drops down a tier, if so by how much.
Her defensive skill isn't good. Hitcount Shields are kinda bad when late game is pretty much bullet hell, if you want a tanky CL you need EVA/Evasion Rate/Damage Reduction, and that skill's second effect is pretty inconsistent since it checks for marked enemies. It could be better in a bossing/single targe scenario, but we get back at the problem with her synching timing.
About her self buffs, they're decent but there's A LOT of statstick CL ships, that's where the no DD gun nor MGM+1 problem surfaces.
@@yamino_exe As I said, I had a frame of thought that CLs were just utility.
Where can I find your tier list? Is it one of your videos?
I always recommend the new guildmates to this guide just to give them a general overview but ill go into VC with them or send them your vids or other AL-tubers if they want more detailed.
honestly, i mostly use this list to get a certain feel of where a ship is but more importantly, as someone completely overwhelmed by the gearing aspect of the game, without this list i would be completely lost in the sauce
19:58 yup, you 100% called it. They've hated that people list Ark royal in other tier lists as T0 because of "specific" fights, to the point where they're so overly harsh on her, that it ends up exactly like you said.
I do disagree with the "just shove the lower ships in TN", mainly just because right now I'm trying to find ships from X faction that I don't have 120 for the PR grind. Unfortunately when you shove EVERYONE in TN, it makes it super hard to identify between levels of bad... Sure, someone who's played enough to get that many ships 120 can likely just actually look at the ship on paper to see what's good, but sometimes you just wanna be lazy and see who's the least shit low tier ship.
i don't know if this is talked about but does fleet tech matters on deciding the tier? i mean, RLD stat on CV is probably talk around so much on deciding syncing stuff. if it matters, i think the ECTL Eval team should put that on regard as "the ship evaluated are on 'no fleet tech bonus' so there's no discrepancy on stat evaluation'.
or i dunno, last i hear that stat doesn't matter in most situation. please enlighten me on this subject (for tier list argument especially).
We currently evaluate ships assuming no tech or cat bonuses. Our guidelines haven't been edited in some time; they may get an update in the future.
Their obsession with Ark Royal comes from their “New Players Guide” where she becomes highly recommended to make it through progression vs destroyer campaign maps. I don’t think they could diverge from how pivotal she was during their play through. I also think she was put their for her accessibility, so really nothing that they say they rate on. But alas.
Is Kawakaze really that good? Genuinely asking. And thank you for your content.
Honestly, my biggest problem with their tierlist is the gathering of people who use it as their gospel for equipment use, when things like the AL wiki exists. They get stuck in the mindset of "These are the best guns" when in reality its a matter of experimentation for most ships. Particularly barrage battleships, which typically these days don't have strong enough barrages to warrant using a weaker main gun with faster reload for the chance of more damage from a barrage, when the barrage is just a nice to have rather than the mainstay of a ship's armament.
And also CA's, where, given it's orientated towards beginners, the fact that equipment is ranked equally for all ships means that certain ships are painted in a bleak light when the recommended equipment is a gun that takes 6 months to grind(the 234mm gun), when a ship has skills which enables other weapons to compete with it on equal footing are available and much cheaper. Or just some gear not appearing at all for certain ships(Tallinn, just not even having the gear lab 150mm gold prototype gun as a recommended given her skills even though it shows up on light cruisers with AP buffs, among other oddities). But again, that might also just be a problem that's just become increasingly glaring with time and repeated use of it as a good guide for AL. And people still believing that, of course.
Specifically regarding Tallinn and the Twin 150skc, we don't recommend it because there's really no situation where you'd make one instead of the currently listed main guns for her. If you're fighting medium or heavy, it's worse than the easily available CA gun alternatives (the bog-standard Twin 203skc, or the Baltimore gun if we're doing an apples to apples, gear lab weapon to gear lab weapon comparison) and it's worse vs light compared to those alternatives too (the gear lab-craftable Algerie and HMS HE CA guns).
Do you have your tierlist bro , how to get access to it?
Thank you for your contributions jim jim :)
Thanks for being a good sport
@@JimmyAL content farmer extraordinaire
I don't really care about tier lists, but I do enjoy hearing yuo go over the reasons for their placement.
Maybe its the piano music that makes it both relaxing and informative. :D
How about tier list of all AL tier list?
Yo! A half an hour Jimmy's video. Big W.
fuck you are sooooooo funnnnnnnny and i am not just saying that because I'm drunk also thanks for the easy drinking game................... (^w^)b your content is much better after like 10 min of drinking. Really makes that first 3rd of the video better. You soooo fucking funnny
Thoughts about Kimocheese saying Comet better better than tenrai for Haku & how CN/JP community copies his strats for meta fights?
v=XeHronNxv-Q
Biggest problem with list can be seen the moment you open it. We already in 4th day of event, we knew it's coming long before, and still "No active event". Even putting banner takes so long. When i can see ship proper placed? 1 month after release? 2,3, year? When i started playing AL this list was my bread and butter. But after 2-3 month you can already see flaws here and there. Esp PVP list stuck somewhere 1+ year ago in timeline. This day i still go there, but only cuz i'm lazy to read skills of ships i farm for perma stats to check if they need faster or slower gun, and dmg AA or accelerator AA.
PvP tier list is being worked on right now and should be updated for 2023 shortly.
@@AzurLaneMeta Thx for the info. Not like i care about pvp that much. Just saw it been least updated. But sure will help many other ppl. Esp those who trying to get to AOTN first time.
how can i find jimmy’s tier list
From lurking in the discord, I can tell you that the ability to contest anything is non-existent. They pretty much shut you down right away. I'm glad you pointed out all the inconsistencies. I would hope this would make them re-evaluate their lists but i doubt that will happen.
disagree with that, you just have to mention sutff that makes sence. They made Kawakaze T0 now, Scylla T0, I mentioned to downtier Neptune to T2, they did it. So yeah, worked for me ig.
@@ixosenpai its mostly because of this video. I've never personally made requests but I've seen people since I've been in there over a year or so get shot down HARD without any real discussion. It would mostly be belittlement. It's the first time they've used the discussion room in months.
@@tierlis422 We get a LOT of "contentions" that boil down to "because I think so" or are blatantly antagonistic against us or straight up trolls. We take serious contentions into consideration, and just because we end up not agreeing with them doesn't mean we ignored them. People love to come into our discord expecting the worst and never even give us a chance, the moment we disagree we are labeled as inadequate :shrug: surely you understand some of the bitterness. If you lurk and cherry pick out all the things you dislike and parade it around like its the entire story, it doesn't help us improve.
@@YuniversalYT Don't mean to be rude but you should see some of the stuff that your other contributors say for the past year.
Just because people's opinions might differ from you doesn't justify your other contributors' passive aggressive comments about the contentions' IQ as if like they have some sort of brain dysfunction or sorts is
@@Ascent1520 I'm sure some of the evaluators' comments are misplaced, I won't defend that. Personally I resort to only calling other evaluators braindead xD or regulars who have made it clear they are fine with the banter. Perhaps new users come in and are intimidated by the lack of chat moderation, but I do think it has slowly improved as some problematic users have gotten banned from the server over time. It's far from perfect but we do genuinely appreciate new users and those who come in with a serious contention. Also remember that each evaluator is their own person, if you don't get along with one doesn't mean you can't get along with another.
Thanks for your insights and generous review
I think for beginners who don't know what they are doing this list is not bad but for a lot more advanced players it's pretty redundant and there are much better option like the best Azur Lane youtuber alive, Jimmy, like who needs anything else. His tier lists are so good you don't even have to play AL to know what's going on like really
Jimmy looking for blood early in the morning I see
tier list tier list when?
Im a returning player , could someone explain why is Warspite so low?
I've asked this before and the answer was "because she's so expensive for what she is" which is fine, and true, but their tier list does specifically say that cost is no issue. I got the impression there was a fairly serious collective hateboner going on over there, so I moved on. I'd pick her 100% of the time over Monarch, anyway, who's placed a tier ahead. YMMV, of course.
I was really interested in hearing what you had to say, especially since I find the ECTL a bit lacking in the same ways you did, but the way you pronounce "indomitable" is painful! LOL
some of the changes were made it seems like
I only use tier lists for gear selection, I don't really care who deals a lot of damage, etc. (I skipped New Jersey). The main thing for me is that my waifu have the most suitable equipment❤
Sorry for my english ^^
New player's guide is outdated as hell..
im actually dying laughing this whole video
Doesn't mention Unicorn because everyone who plays the game knows she's obvs EX tier. lmao
Let him cook
you should do a Site like that IF YOU HAVE TIME. It will give you ads money and make you very important for the community, maybe you don't realize that most people just want a motivated and up to date tier list. Yeah can be a hard time consuming task even a job to this point but I'm sure you you put the effort to make a good tier list, and equip load + no allergies to rainbow dildo + up to date + decent look at the game that will help everyone will se that as useful.
I would say ark royal is overrated in their tier list. I tried to use her so much but this rng is so bad that she is more useless than 60% of other CVs
Hi Jimmy
I like the Tier list but it has some glaring issues and needs to be taken with a whole bag of salt.
This tier list is wrong because is not Jimmy tier list and that's it🤣🤣
Based 😭
Simply recommend that z1 could be bumped up a tire because of the new gold German dd's then they started bringing in cls and shema to claim that putting Z1 up with Z23 should not happen.
The also said that it's to much of a specific comp to concider otto and Felix in her tiring but Z23 and Z46 somehow aren't
overall a decent tier list, but i would rank avora, stephen potter, and chise higher.
comparing chise and aquila, Chise offer way more then aquila. with aquila u cant either chose to heal or preload. Chise offer both shield and preload in a silge setup. aquila 224 loadout give her the advantage against heavy armor boss but chise 233 load give her the advantage against all 3 boss. the rainbow eagle dive will give chise the advantage on ligh and med armor boss. the shield on 1st and 3rd airstrike will give vanguard som nice protection. Chise also have multiple barrage aswell for some added dmg in between air strike
avora, theres probably no better vanguard buffer then her and her dmg is decent as well.
Stephen Potter, imo shes probably the 2nd best air raid assistance DD in the game. the 10% dmg reduction to front most vangard and 10% increase dmg to backmost vanguard is not bad. in a carrier set up, with a tank in teh front most gettign an additional 10% dmg reduction and ur vanguard Damage Dealer in teh back most position gettign another 10% dmg buff not bad either.
Yeah, ECTL is super biased against torpedoes for whatever reason
Well it is a fully auto tier list so manual is out of the picture
They saw Shimakaze once, then they thought every vanguard has to revolve around torps only
Who said anything about manual?
Their pvp tier list is sorely outdated.
Their pvp tier list is made by Azur Lane Meta who actually is the best PvPer in EN as mentioned in his videos. What you are saying here is ALM made a bad guide.
@@Ascent1520 No, I'm saying he hasn't updated it. I'm in his server. It doesn't even have musashi.
@@keion_arknights pretty sure he still uses NJ Aquila Veneto, given Musashi event ended October 5th, 2022 and his latest video on PvP is 24th Oct 2022 with NJ Aquila Veneto. As ALM have mentioned he is the best pvp player in EN, he should be correct.
@@Ascent1520 Well, one look at his channel would tell you that he doesn't run PvP too much these days. And he did run a community event more recently for PvP, where basically anyone worth their salt was using Musashi because she was just that busted, that plus NJ and Aquila was the premier PvP backline(I was personally using Mus, NJ and Shinano because I didn't have Aquila at the time and Shinano did well enough), which ALM swapped to I think at some point later on in the competition's running. It does pay to keep up with the times.
@@novatopaz9880 doesn't change the fact that ALM says he is the best in PvP and still did not use musashi while other people are using her.
Biased, outdated and full of laziness tier list. The more you use/refer to it, the more you understand how bad this list works. Majority of equipment is generated by some templates, so sometimes it goes from "better than nothing for beginners" to complete trash.
And the worst part is that lots of ppl prays to this list like to Holy Bible, and ready to cut your throat if you disagree with it
Surely they tested it before adding the tag... You sweet summer child.
The owners test nothing
Still malding about z2
@@anHS801 I'll say this again
If someone request their data and tests results they should provide them.
Additionally if someone challenges Thier veiws on a ship using a logical basis wether the dissenter is wrong or right they should work with the individual not be a little.
As far as I'm concerned if you can not provide your proof of ranking or treating others with some semblance of respect when they disagree with you you should remove the list
@@ProjectAtlasmodling you provided useless data and refused to test yourself
you were given the issues with your tests and what a better test would be, and rather than actually go and try and prove your point, you've just malded for years
you were wrong about z2 then and you're wrong now
Why do u care about Z2 so much? She's so weak compared to other higher rarity ones. Also, why you only care about Z2 but not other underwhelming TN destroyers? I sense bias and favoritism here lol
@@yousefseed1874 this event happened 3 almost four years ago most of these DD people drule over didn't exist adding to that does bring up something that happened years ago bring you validation?
Are you that desperate for a preserved W that you need to dreg up something for the past to get it
Sup
Their PvP tier list is embarrassingly bad. (Loadout is 2/3 of what determines who wins.) And not recommending oxy torps on ships like Shimakaze is proof they have no clue WTF they're doing. TL;DR their entire rationale for their top tiers = "UR = win."
@@Ascent1520 bro needs to update the guide because newer ships aren't included you bootlicker
@@TheGhostFart ALM himself said he is the best PvPer, both in Azur Lane & Blue Archive, and have shown screenshots to back them up. He mentioned that his guide is updated already as there is no reason to include Musashi into the PvP comp despite most people using it.
@@Ascent1520 How can he be the best PvPer if he had not won the PvP tournament last year?
@@TheAgency2607 go ask him then lol his words not mine
@@Ascent1520 Made a year ago? Do you even PvP, bro? There's not a single team that uses Aquila that consistently hits top ten, LMAO. It could be made by Jesus Christ and the facts don't change.
Not even going to comment on how much worse azuma is than the other large cruisers?
She’s tank tagged while the others aren’t so I don’t think he felt the need to talk about it.
she's very slightly weaker than kronshtadt, there was nothing to comment on as she's placed appropriately i.e with the other rainbow CBs.
@@captainfluffs7939 joke post?
@@kuwanger12 ...what?
No thank you, I'll stick with Usagi's tier list.
If anyone needs clarification, they apparently test in W12-14 (despite their claims about not considering AA) and the complete absence of oxytorps is due to their "fuck manual" mentality.
ECTL is pretty flawed and their community is pretty abrasive, definitely not my jam
but if you unironically think usagi's list is better something is wrong with you lmao. That list is straight up TERRIBLE. ECTL at least has a good presentation and other helpful information outside of their tiers. It sounds like you just have a personal grudge against the people who run it rather than the list itself and would take any opportunity to shit on it.
I mean, no one plays manual outside EX stages, because you can literally clear everything on auto. Also Usagi TL might be one of the worst tier lists I've ever seen, but if it helps you, good then.
@@Leanjicaa That first statement is false.
I don't think any of the tier lists are good, but ectl sets a really low bar.
@@Leanjicaa As someone who is working on hitting 120 with every ship in the game, I manual all the time. I level up every ship after lvl 115 in W14-4 manual, which lets me clear it with even common rarity ships. Using 125 ships to grind is just a lazy waste of oil unless you've already max leveled the ~700 ships in the game.
@@nickenchugger chugma balls lmao
THANK YOU MY GUY
Quick correction for your ark royal. She is kitted with the tenzan kai's, second slot has 3 planes in it. Click through and the kai's are the third one in the slot.
Edit: never mind someone beat me to it.
P.S. as a newish player (been playing for maybe 6 months) this list has been beyond helpful. When i first started out I didn't know how to build a fleet or what gear to use. And sure this list might not be as up kept as it should, but this list and it's notes helped me build fleets and units. Honestly love this list for helping me make a good boss and mob fleet and generally helping me build ships. So if you put work into this tier list no matter how small, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Yup another commentor brought it up already
@@JimmyAL literally just finished putting in the edit that I found that comment. What remarkable timing haha.