Tire Chains Don't Work in Deep Snow! (OR DO THEY?)
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- Tire Chains do NOT work in deep snow, but is this true? In my last video, multiple people have reported this phenomenon. I scoured the internet and CZcams for the answers, and the results may SHOCK YOU!!
Auto Ratcheting Snow Chains (make sure to use the size chart!)
amzn.to/3FPpqvu
*Make sure to refer to your vehicles owners manual. Not all vehicles can run winter tire chains*
Check out my previous video here:
Overlanding/Off-road with Winter Tire Chains. Why does no one use them? (you should, if you could) • Overlanding/Off-road w...
And check out our winter camping experience video here: • Winter Camping with a ...
NAVIGATION
00:00 Intro
01:22 @O4lo Tacoma Slides downhill
02:31 @ExpeditionOverland Snow chains helps climb / damages fender
03:41 @countryslickerofficial effectiveness of snow chains / Can they fit?
05:39 Randomly losing control without chains
07:00 @HeavyDSparks "Toyotas near death experience
08:07 @HeavyDSparks "Chaining up aired down 40" tires
10:20 @PrimalOutdoors "snow chains don't work in the back country"
12:23 Peerless autoratcheting chains take 45 seconds tops, per tire.
13:56 Past snow wheeling
19:49 Present Day snow wheeling without chains
--
KJorgensen TV "Snow Wheeling Season in Lytle Creek | Quick Vlog"
• Snow Wheeling Season i...
HeavyDSparks "My Hellcat Jeep Gladiator Saves a Ford Truck From DEEP Snow"
• My Hellcat Jeep Gladia...
HeavyDSparks "Toyota's Near-Death Experience: Hellcat Jeep To The Rescue!"
• Toyota's Near-Death Ex...
Country Slicker "Tire Chains VS Lockers | Dangerous Snow Wheeling"
• Tire Chains VS Lockers...
Expedition Overland "Expedition Overland: North America Ep3"
• Expedition Overland: N...
Primal Outdoors "Snow Chains Don't Work in the Backcountry"
• Snow Chains Don't Work...
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-WHEELS - Black Rhino "Chase" 18" X 8", 120 x 5, 10mm offset, 26 lbs
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-REAR HITCH TIRE CARRIER "Trailswing" by DirtCom USA
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snow is ice. rubber edges don't grip ice well. Steel edges do. If it's cold enough. the snow stays frozen when you spin, if it isn't, the spinning rubber polishes the snow, melts it a bit and makes it into a skating rink. Spinning steel digs into the ice and keeps it from polishing.
Chains will break if abused and will damage things if allowed to contact anything other than the tire.
They are heavy, they do rust, they can be a pain in the ass to mount and remove.
But....
I'd rather have chains than not.
Awesome comment! No one has explained it the way you did, and I can confirm what you described. Even grabbing onto my frosted chains, it wants to stick to my semi wet fingers, just like a tongue on a frosted pole. This comment deserves to be “pinned” 📌. We just got back from a 4 night / 4 day snow camping trip, and my chains really came in handy!
As a logger in the West, I drive up on the mountain 5 or 6 days a week and have to contend with whatever conditions I find to get to work. The only time I've found tire chains to be a detriment is in hard drifted snow with a truck that didn't weigh very much. Chains would dig me in and high center me.
Every other snow condition I've driven in benefited from having chains on, especially fresh snow. I don't even hook up to the fuel tank trailer without chains on.
Thanks for sharing Ben. Last week we were in 3 foot deep snow that was fresh on top, a layer of silt in the middle and hard packed on the bottom. Tire chains ⛓️ on all 4 really came in handy for me and excited the share the video (hopefully this Wednesday)
“Chains do damage to your car.”So does crashing into something without chains
I’ve never had chains damage a vehicle in 40 plus years of wheeling.
Chains do damage when they're not installed right, kind of like anything that's not installed right.
Were I live (Bulgaria, Southeast Europe) we have deep snow and ice in the winter. Aggressive winter tyres and chains especially in mountain regions are a must.
There are 6 rules with deep snow:
1. Use good chains, not craps - and install them on all 4 wheels
2. Respect the center ground clearance
3. Don't overheat your engine
4. Use inertia - do not stop
5. Maybe most important, be sure you have a good 4x4 SUV/Truck
6. Keep a shovel ready
:)
When I was a teenager many years ago we used a 1988 ford truck to feed cows in northern Alberta.
We had all 4 wheels chained up with heavy duty Treg chain and a winch operated bale lift in the back. This truck with a bale on the back would go through snow so deep we could not open the door.
I spent many years offroading in Wyoming and we carried the full complement of bad weather equipment year around. Everyone has different experiences and opinions. Do what works for you and know your limits and your vehicle's capabilities.
Good video, thanks.
Well said I agree a 100%
Being from montana we never had much luck driving through deep snow with chains, even with all 4 lockers....frozen snow is like sand.
The trail needs to broken with a snowmobile.
The chains really just keep you from sliding off the mountain.
I have only gotten my Jeep stuck twice. Both were in snow.
Once was was in Utah buried in wet spring corn snow with the frame resting on the snow. Took 2.5 hours to dig out by hand with my shovel and traction boards.
The other was in Colorado on a slicked up road. Shovel got me out of that one.
Only run 3Peak Mountain Snowflake tires.
Country Slicker has a Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ. Developed by AMC prior Chrysler took over Jeep. I love that darn thing, I got one myself for $3,500... been building it and sourcing parts in the junkyard. Solid 5.2 magnum v8, front solid axle dana 30 and dana 44a in the back. Plenty of power/torque even on 33x12.5r15 tires.
The camouflage threw me off
I had a ZJ too, with the 4.0. Great rig, they're super capable and highly underrated. For off-road use, I'd rather have it than my 5th gen 4Runner.
Your last video you said subis cant use chains. You are 100% correct. It also says in my manual that when you cant use chains, spring chains may be used as long as they meet the class s rating. The class s means for vehicles with very little clearance, aka my '24 outback wilderness. The sad part is, they can only be used on the front.
You do great work; keep it up.
Thanks for including my comments in your video, good discussions in these videos! To add what has already been said, chains are cheap... $100 a set, maybe a little more or a little less depending on what you get. But considering the thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars folks put into their rig, these are cheap additions to any kit. Also, running without chains not only risks your rig, but others... was waiting for that Tacoma or that Hummer to slide into another rig.
When you all do get chains, recommend sticking a blue tarp and some cheap nitrile coated gloves in the bag too. Really handy for installing and removing the chains when it's all wet and muddy.
Good advice about the additions. I got lucky last snow trip. Lots of coverage, and no mud 😃.
I grew up in the Midwest and we ran chains for either heavy mud or deep snow. We also ran studded snow tires in the Winter.
I grew up in the Hills on gravel and dirt roads. We always got huge drifts and Blizzard conditions to deal with. We ran aggressive tires on our trucks and only chained up when the snow was really deep and we had to drive slow.
Most of the time we just used momentum to blast through the drifts and tried to travel in teams.
That way you could dig and pull each other out if you got stuck.
The best thing for deep snow is tall skinny tires tires and chains.
Just don't drive over 30 miles an hour if you are chained up and drop 10 psi off of normal pressure.
We used to use a trick where we would deflate tires and lock the chains up really tight, then we would air back up and slap on the tensioner.
Thanks for all the helpful info Desertdan!
@@elkslayer7399 I learned my lesson about wide large floatation style tires in deep snow when I was a teenager years ago. Got caught in a blizzard going home in a J10 Jeep pickup that was my first Jeep. Short box 1/2 ton.
We had ice and sleet first and then the snow covered it up and started blowing 40 mph , drifts everywhere.
I did not have chains and like and idiot I was running 32 x 12s on 15 inch rims. Radial T/A treads.
I could not keep the truck going straight or stay on the road. I was going from one ditch to the other but kept going forward.
I would blast a drift and the truck would raise up and pretty much go where it wanted to, I was just along for the ride.
I ended up rear ending a 3/4 ton Ford truck that got stuck in a drift on a Blacktop road near my house in the middle of the road.
The person abandoned and left it parked sitting in the middle of the road and the snow was covering it except for the tailgate.
I was driving about 35 to 40 mph blasting drifts when I saw it about 60 feet ahead of me. I was stuck in it's tracks and could not stop or steer away from it and hit it dead on.
Totaled out my truck front end and ruined the radiator. I was 1.5 miles from home and had 2 choices. Drive my truck until the block cracked and siezed up and maybe survive walking home the rest of the way or freeze to death trying to walk a 1.5 miles home or sitting in my truck waiting to be found.
I had to decide quick because radiator fluid was pouring out onto the ground.
I went for it and drove through fields and ditches in an almost straight line home.
I pulled in the Barnyard when the truck overheated and stopped and walked 80 yards back to the house.
Luckily I got home and survived. I was 16 at the time.
Found out that it was my dads truck that was buried in the snow. We went back out the next day in my old beater truck. It was a beast. 1966 1 ton International 4x4. 9.50 x 16 split rim tires with heavy chunky Bias ply Directional Mud and Snow tires and a pto winch on the front.
We had it chained up on all 4 wheels. We used it to go out and feed cattle and round them up. That thing set high up from the factory. It basically had a straight frame rail under it.
We took it out to go drag out my Dads other truck to get it home. Then me and my brother went out and spent the rest of the day pulling people out of the ditch and blasting paths down the local gravel roads in the area so that people could get in and out.
That truck could go literally anywhere you pointed the nose and drove. I had snow coming up and over the hood and over the cab sometimes. We would hit a drift hard , snow would fly and we would pop out the other side. People would get in our tracks and follow them out on the county road.
We could only drive about 30 mph with the chains on.
I learned at that point how much better the tall skinny tires were than the flotation tires I was running.
Great answer. On semi's you can buy tire chains with round chain links, or pay the extra money and buy tire chains with square chain links and those actually cut into the ice with the square corners of the chain links.
@@elkslayer7399 Up here in North Dakota we have a guy that custom makes chains for all of our 2wd loader tractors.
@@MyLifeThai371 V bars for normal trucks are the way to go as well.
Save's your butt on ice- especially icy side hills that do not like chains.
Just normal chains work great for snow but not so much on ice. Especially on a side hill- V bar chains fix that problem.
chains are really designed for packed ice and snow, where it can be slick. In snow the best traction is snow to snow, that is why the old style snow tires had deep grooves to actually hold snow to the tread because snow against snow is actually good traction. So if you have a tire with a tread that will pack with snow they will work well in just snow.
Siping works fantastic for more snow to snow contact!
My favorite radial snow tire in the Midwest in the past is now no longer made.
They worked great for almost all types of snow and slush.
They were called Town and Country Snow biters.
Look them up to see the tread pattern.
I ran them on my rear wheel drive cars and trucks in winter studded.
They were my favorite tire to run on my jeeps in the Winter. I never got stuck if I kept the momentum up.
If I got into really deep bumper high snow I would chain them up and just go. Just keep the speed under 30 miles per hour to keep the chains from flying out and damaging your vehicle. Chains are happy at like 20 miles an hour.
So true. FYI even 'modern' snow tires are also designed to hold snow.
Honestly for ice,theres better chains,look up studded tire chains,them things aggressive asf
Chains work really well. The only downside is that they can make the sketchiest trail boring because they just crawl over whatever is in front of them. I would rather have a set of all season tires and chains then the most aggressive mud terrain tire.
LOL seriously I couldn't afford to switch out my tires this winter so I had to ride it out with my all seasons, and I STILL past dozens of stuck SUVS and trucks and subarus all winter long simply because I had a pair of chains on the front. Its incredible the difference they make!
Years ago I went to the auto parts store to gets something for my F-150 and saw a display for tire chains at half price , this was in October and were left over from last year . Had they known what the approaching winter would bring they would have charged more . I got the reinforced chains and and threw them in the truck . After a 19 inch snowfall I backed the truck into the garage jacked it up and put on the chains and drove down the road like it have never snowed . I saw in the video that no one had reinforced chains , Maybe no one makes them anymore but the kicked ass in my experience .
Live in Norway, and maked my living one year by delivering newspaper, and had to drive on places that often wasnt cleared for snow, ice conditions etc. I was pretty poor and had a old VW passat 2WD frontwheel drive. Not even close beeing a offroader. I became really good at mounting snowchains, took only a few minutes. Snowchains on frontwheel driven cars makes all the difference. I crawled up hills, chewing up the ground when its got difficult and kept on moving. The only thing stopping me was really deep snow since the ground clearing was low. And I always used the chains i snowy or extrem ice conditions, never on tarmac.
The big older style chains kick butt if you have the clearance and don't need to go fast! Properly fitting of course.
Awesome the video! great shots from above, really makes you feel like you are there. Plus love the husky!
Great video brother. I have to say that I sway on the side of having chains on the truck when I head into the back country. Usually I’ll just run with chains on the back, however in case of emergency I do have another set to put on the front as well. I tow a trailer as well. We play in the same backcountry and should connect some time!
Thanks 4WDtalk 🙏 good on you for carry chains for all 4 tires. Hey, if you don’t mind, we have a little Facebook group we people will post trips. I don’t like to advertise it because we want only people that actually go on trips to join, so look us up “crossoverlanding (hub)”.
Great video - thanks for posting and presenting various viewpoints. Just starting to use my CJ3A in some snow. Without doors, roof or a heater it’s more like sledding than wheeling….but without the traction. 🙃
Chains likely are going to help me rather than not is my gut feel with my relatively tall skinny tires. Best lesson here for a noob like me tho is don’t get overconfident. ANYTHING can get stuck if you try hard enough. And sometimes it doesn’t even take much trying…
I’m catching up on watching videos and I can’t believe I missed your awesome ones (fixing it today). I’m with you, I think chains are usually the best method. However, to master snow, I think the key is big tires, a winch, and know when you to send it. Snow wheeling is fun, but you gotta be ok with potentially sliding into stuff and getting damage too.
I run a 2001 e250.. 2 wd..with iron man polar trax studded tires. & Snow chains ..3 in lift...lunchbox locker..I can't do all that a 4x4 can,but dam close !! Cheers 😁
Great video...its time I get some snow chains for my rig!!!
Do a lot of snow recoveries my jeep is on 40 inch tires . Lots of situations call for chains . Air down low put on chains and air up a little. Pretty much works in most conditions. Sometimes just airing down to 2 psi works better. Great video
Diamond Back Passenger Vehicle Tire Chains are the best chains I have used. Bigger V bar chains just trench. The Diamond Back chains help steer and hold a side hill. Put them up front at first after you have aired down to single digits and can’t go any further. If you get stuck aired down with 2 chains put the rear chains on and turn out. 4:59
I think people don't carry chains because they haven't been trained properly on how to install them. And they may secretly be afraid of getting into the snow under their rigs to install them.
Great video Jon! I was wondering if you'll be planning a redo video for snow socks vs chains vs no chains.
When I saw the part where the hummer was sliding... that was super sketch. Glad he let u pass first.
I think chains are good to have no matter what all terrain your using. If your out there In the middle of no where, I think some fender damage is much better than becoming a popsicle lol.
Thanks Marc! Yes, I agree. At the very least, they're an option to help get out of a bad situation. Now to head up to Big Bear (solo). Bringing my chains with me :P
I wheel in CO, including in the mountains. I can tell you definitively that chains are awesome in deep snow. Anyone who says that they don't work has no idea what they are talking about...
Thanks for that! I’m in Oregon (born and raised) and I’ve found chains work great in deep snow too. Jason (Primal Outdoors) and Casey Ladelle(Casey just said it again in his auto-chain video) consistently say chains don’t work in deep snow. They’re both out of Oregon now and it really bugs me when they say that about chains in the snow. I’ve been using chains in the deep snow for decades and they’ve always worked great for me! Jason did that entire video and he called the tiny cables he was using on his big truck “chains”. I guess I should just stay off BoobTube for a while. Glad to see others agree with me.
You need clearance, though. I found this out driving a damn mini van in snow drifts.
@@hereweare9011 there is definitely a clearance to tire float ratio to meet. Today I was up in about 18” of snow, but my clearance is only about 9”. Got as far as I could just aired down, chains went on and I just kept on going. I can always get much further with my chains on.
Define deep snow. Chains are awesome up to 40 cm of depths. If you have a look at Arctic Trucks, you will see vehicles driving on top of hundreds of meters of snow without chains....
@@philippgeisler4590 specific type of tires, over 40" on beadlocks so they can air down to 2 PSI. Those tires are generally not street legal.
00:13 Look ma, I’m famous!
20:37 I too never go anywhere without my winter tacti-Crocs!
Thanks for another great video Jon. Definitely a lot of food for thought! I’ve had mixed results with chains, but it totally depends on the situation. Maybe I should try them in more conditions off-road to get a better idea!
I think the reason you don't hear of a lot of people using chains is because you live in CA, where people only go in the snow for fun. Here in Montana, where we deal with deep snow all the time, chains are very common.
All the famous CZcamsrs I talk about aren’t from California. They’re from Canada, the PNW, etc. Not calling anyone out specifically, not it’s just surprising no one except for the Diesel guy has used them.
Interesting video, I think you do make a good case for chains. I think I may invest in a set for my 4Runner this winter, though I probably won't need them as we don't get much snow here in Rhode Island. My biggest takeaway from the Heavy D video is that I need a Hellcat-powered Gladiator in my life.
Also, I really think it depends a lot on the actual snow conditions. There's so many different types of snow, and it depends on the moisture and temperature as well. I think the icier it is, the better the chains will help.
Great info. Did your buddy in the 4Runner chain up his fronts too?
None of us were chained up when we lost control. Kinda scary how randomly one of our vehicles can just spin around like that. I wonder if that’s how the Tacoma in the HeavyDsparks video ended up sideways too 😱
Chains are great in winter. Only one condition chains are bad, when your soft snow 3-4 ft deep. Chains dig and if they can’t get to solid ground bad day. They’re excellent on ice.🇨🇦
Primary items for wheeling in snow trails (not woods crossing) is WEIGHT affecting surface pressure incluting wheel size direcly impacting clearence but important in snow is angle of attack in pulling the snow under the tires before spinning, traction from grip bite (thats variable with temperature and humidity of now and ice that decide if rubber and/or metal is required), and clearence to push, slide-over or clear the snow. But moste of these are limited by budget 😅.
I am just sharing my experience hoping to help somebody who has not yet tried chains. As a tire chain user on multiple trucks (2005 F150 on 33's with a 3-inch lift, 1999 F250 on 35's with an 8-inch lift, 2016 F250 on 35's with a 6-inch lift, and a 2000 Nissan Xterra on 33's with a 6-inch lift) in very difficult offroad conditions for 4 straight years now, I have never had a chain break. I first tried normal tire chains, then tried the "V" chains, and last I tried the "studded" tire chains and by far the studded chains work best in mud or deep snow and ice. Our driveway is about 4 miles long and we constantly have to go up and down on this road, and there are a few hills that are amazingly steep with some pretty big rocks along the way. With the studded Grade 80 (I believe) chains on only the front, I can get through the first half on winter up here at 8,700 feet elevation without issue. The road is brutal, and extremely rocky too, but I feel almost like I could drive the Nissan Xterra up a vertical wall at this point. I have never gotten stuck with them either. I have now used this Nissan to pull out all the trucks I listed above and a 9,000-pound tractor. I have never felt traction like this until I put these on. We have also tried many different options, and I have not yet found anything even close to the studded tire chains. I'm not sure all people know that all new chains will loosen up quite a bit at first, and you have to re-adjust them as they stretch, but after a Month or so the loosening slows way down, and with Amazons thicker "Star Bungys", they stay put all winter season. They used to be about $120 a chain, but now they are close to $220 for a chain, but I have no choice but to pay that because nothing compares to the grip I get using them, and I know I will make it home regardless of the conditions. I do not work for, sell for or get paid for saying any of this. I am a person who moved to a very rugged offroad area and tried everything that is available to get reliable off-road travel. I have seen a few others not put the chains on very tight thinking it would not matter, but I have had to replace 4 brake lines in one season because of the chains falling off and hitting the 4wd air line, nipple and brake lines when they do come off so you have to look at chains as a "must be maintained and watched" issue. It also takes some time to learn how to put them on tightly every time. If you do want to try them but are afraid of anything bad you have heard, I can promise you that there is no better option if you want to be confident when you have to go off-road. I hope this helps those who are contemplating buying snow chains.
Thanks for sharing!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Your welcome. I said "Spiked" but they are actually called "studded". They are made with Boron I think. They are more expensive, but they far outlast the regular chains. I looked them up from last order and this is what they are: BORON ALLOY 10B21 STEEL LASTS UP TO 83% LONGER THAN STANDARD ROCKWELL 53 STEEL. They are: Studded Cam Tire Chains . I feel they are the best you can get now, but if I find Diamond Studded chains, I would get them but I have never seen them for sale.
Late to the party ... sub'd.
I have some experience on this topic, fwiw. A brief yet long-winded exhale...
1 - Chains are the great equalizer - it removes tire tread from the equation. So, a civic with decent chains can go where ever it's clearance will allow on snow and ice.
2 - I ran those Auto-track chains on my #80series for one season. The weight of my rig shredded those chains on every outing. Ended up going through 5 sets in just one season.
Eventually switched to proper chains and haven't had any issues since. So, the weight of a vehicle should guide one to the correct chain type.
3 - Can you run chains aired down? - Yes, tho in my case, my chains are sized such that their smallest adjustment just fits my 33" tires when fully inflated. They are loose when aired down. They still work, but not as safely imo. So, be sure to get the right size chain if you want to run them aired down on a regular basis.
4 - The guy in the truck talking about chains not helping in the snow...his real issue is open differentials. Not the chains.
Side bar - There were no US-made vehicles with diff locks front and rear since the '70's I believe, up until the first Jeep Rubicon (2012?) Which is why G-wagens, some Land/Range Rovers, and the Toyota #80series Land Cruiser are so sought after.
Yes lockers can be added to a variety of rigs, but take care to understand that rigs not delivered from the factory with lockers means the components inside the diff were most likely not designed for the stresses a locker puts on axle components. So simply adding lockers may only prove to get you farther from help when a component gives up and leaves you stranded.
Plus with aftermarket locks you're often adding holes to things to install the lockers that you'd really rather not put holes into, such as the diff housing itself.
Ok, at any rate, not sure why this is even a point of contention. Chains are what you need in snowy/icy conditions. Bar none.
Perhaps it's a driver skill and understanding thing too, to use said chains correctly and to your advantage.
Nice video!
I like that tent.
Please talk more about that tent when possible 😊
I am a 30+ year, heavily into all terrain type wheeling and famous trails enthusiast. I love all season wheel with the acception of mud.
Snow and very low as low as possible PSI is the very best combo. It applies to sand as well. I have run my 305/ 70r16 All-Terrain T/A KO2 On deep icing up snow at, 4psi on Pro Comp standard wheels no bead locks. Usually 10 PSI is adequate.
I use it often as I am in a voluntary 4x4 trails recovery group. Equipment rig is a 4" lifted 03' TJ that has recovered several vehicles in deep snow going bear foot. It's Light and pops up easily on the snow in most conditions. Definitely my go to rig on deep snow runs and recoveries.
I do carry 2 sets of chains in that Jeep TJ though, but after 5 years and many snow miles never have had to use them. I credit the BF Good rich all terrain tires for the excellent grip and foot spread aired down. I have learned to trust them in other types of terrain surfaces as well.
My rock crawler Toyota truck with sticky Trepadors mud and mostly rock 40" tires I run on bead locks. Even at 2 PSI it has more difficulty floating. It has the 22re 2.4 liter 4 cylinder and the added second transfer case. But I do have a D60 front and Corp 14 rear differentials. 600 lbs of tires and wheels alone then the massive axle sets. Heavy AF...
BFG A/T work super well for me on my little Rav4. I pulled over into some mud by accident not long ago and those tires really saved my ass, and I am sure that if I had to have aired them down from 32 highway psi that they can get me out of much worse. Great snow and ice traction in my experience on Loveland Pass in CO, but I do drive cautiously and gear down as well.
The HeavyD rescue, the thing on the bed is a hound box. The person probably runs hounds after Mt Lions. When they get to the area they want to hunt, sometimes they will let the hounds stand on the top and smell for cats as they drive up / down canyons.
As a member of the SoCal Overland community, I have chains but I haven’t gotten a chance to use them yet.
Jeep says no chains on the JK so no chains on my Jeep. I’ve also had issues with my brake lines rubbing on the tire up front. I would have to reroute and armor up my brake cables if I plan to chain up.
The green arrow is where the chains connect in the back. Position the vehicle so the green arrows are facing upwards, then you don't have to fish around for the connection or even get on the ground. Easy peasy.
Chains don't break when they touch rocks. They're designed for use ON PAVEMENT!
I think what some refer to is they wanna wheel in on the mud then climb rock obstacles. They break chains on that but heck they break frames on that so….
7:25 "Why aren't people adventuring with chains?" Here's my theory: sadly there is a flat-earther mentality amongst a large portion of the community. They are convinced that their AT tires can tackle anything. They think chains and dedicated winter tires are for the paranoid - despite never actually trying or comparing them against their AT tires in winter. As someone who has run winter tires and winter-rated AT tires, I can tell you they don't compare. Blizzaks will destroy any AT tire once the temps drop and you hit ice and snow. And chains will absolutely help you get unstuck, or avoid getting stuck on snowy forest roads.
I also saw an exchange in a 4Runner forum last week where a "community expert" matter-of-factly stated that the current generation's owner's manual says NOT to install chains on a 4runner. That's false. The manual only says to refrain from installing them on the front axle due to clearance issues - but the rear is fine. Yet folks keep perpetuating these myths against chains and snow tires. It's very odd.
I have lots of experience in all kinds of conditions with all kinds of equipment. Tons.
It doesn't matter how much traction you have, if your axles are sitting on the ground. If the ground is too soft, chains will dig holes. Fast.
I pulled my 35' camper up a 12% grade the other, snowpack and icy. Chains on all 4. Couldn't have done it otherwise.
On Hawai'i, I had a heavy trailer, wet grass, uphill grade. Spinning wheels, no traction. Chained up, and within 2 seconds, dug myself stuck.
Did the same thing in 3 feet of snow, heavy load, mud underneath, dug through with the chains, stuck. Seen many times when chains were not the right choice, and many when they were the only choice.
It just depends.
You might be best off with a set of 40"+ grooved/siped Boggers or other blocky Interco tires in snowy hills. With studs. Or big, Icelandic-style, balloon tires with a lot of siping.
Fit them on a Wrangler Unlimited 392 or a Bronco Raptor.
I'm packing for a trip into some deep snowy wilderness and I looked at my tire chains bag and remembered all the negative comments I got when using them in deep snow. So I decided to come in an google "do chains work in deep snow" and I found your video.
I've only ever used my chains in deep snow (near 1 meter) and the snow is either wet and compressible or powder so it can be pushed. With wet deep snow i've found that I air down to 5psi front and back and put my chains on the rear. it gives me some flotation and compresses the snow while chains provide traction. The front tires also sit higher than the front in this chase but if I hit the throttle the chains can dig at the back and cause me to belly up at the back a bit, but saying this its easy to reverse and try again.
In powder of around the 1 meter depth I can be heavy on the throttle and it doesn't matter. The chains dig but I get loads of traction and I can push the snow so its fine. When using chains in situations where i've thought "chains will help" they have provide I work with the snow type using the throttle correctly.
I'm a novice and most of my experience involves totally screwing up, but I try and apply common sense.
Thanks for the fantastic compilation, now I will put my chains back in the Jeep.
I have a lifted Forester with oversized tyres I can fit chains at the front tyres but there is no clearance at the back. Can I use snow sock how do they hold up? I can't find a good competition for off-road use
So, there’s recent CZcams videos that show snow socks being pretty effective.
And this are just normal chains,i wonder what the experience would be with Studded Tire Chains
If possible, could you do an exact comparison w/ and w/o chains in deep untouched snow? I feel like it'll help really settle this debate
In my previous video, I was about to slide into a steep embankment (that probably would have made my vehicle roll on it's side). After chaining up, I drove up with ease: czcams.com/video/oAqY6RM2v5w/video.html
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I did see that but that is a completely different situation than deep fresh powder.
@@brandonwl true! Yes, if I get the chance, I will put together a test. I’m curious myself.
There is no debate. Only ignorance. There is a reason people have used chains for over half a century.
It's pretty simple if you only have 12 inches of ground clearance,you aren't going to drive through 24 inches of snow! Guys, that go for the deep stuff run giant balloon type tires that float on the snow.
I think heavy d recovering on the drop down hitch is dangerous. I don’t know the rating for towing on that, but it’s not meant for recovery force. It can break off and go flying at someone.
Like I said in the other video, people are basically not educated about chains and think they are unnecessary since they don't see people using them. The auto manufacturers certainly will never tell you to use them, it would undermine their selling points on why this brand new awd or 4wd is the "best". People think they are not needed but they are simply not educated and lots of folks are too proud of their tires to even give chains a thought. "Oh I don't need chains, I have 4wd with snow tires" is a great example of that mentality.
Back in the late1990's we had snow falling everyday for at least 17 days straight, the neighbourhood streets where not being plowed as the plows could barely keep up with just plowing the arterial streets. It was not uncommon to see 8 to 10 inches of snow on the neighbourhood streets, which made it near impossible to navigate. I had owned a 1994 Chevy Caprice with the G80 limited slip rear differential, and I decided to buy snow chains because it was near impossible to drive to work otherwise. Let me tell you, with the snow chains on it was like driving a tank, I could easily drive at normal speeds down streets with 10 inches of snow on them. I'm sure people were shocked to see me driving down their streets without having to slow down.
Sure if you’ve got 40in and 36in ground clearance you might have some luck in deeper snow but chains aren’t going to stop you from getting high centered.
Chains are best in most all conditions of heavy snow and mud. If you spin your wheels chains or not you will dig down… must control the fuel pedal consistently…
Only time I broke chains is when I drove 45mph with them on as the snow started to become lighter. Destroyed my fender paint but no biggie, just won't drive that fast with them again.
Was going to buy chains for the Jeep Wrangler Sport but instead bought chains for the Kawasaki UTV. Plow the steep driveway with the chained up UTV so no need for chains on the Jeep.
I started 4 wheeling in the early '80s I did a fair bit of snow wheeling in a 1966 Ford Bronco. I really don't like snow wheeling, so many times we go out in the morning when it is colder outside and have awesome traction, then when we return in the afternoon the sun has been shining on an iced slick hill putting a thin layer of water on the ice and all hell breaks loose, you can't steer you can't brake, you can't back up you are at the mercy of the ice and she has no problem sending you over the bank and wrecking your rig. I put my Toyota 4x4 pick up over the bank going backwards on an ice hill and 2 days before I made it up no problem. I put my FJ Cruiser in the weeds going backwards on an icy road when I rounded a corner and my rear end became light and spun me out. Last year I took my WJ on a short cut in my area and when I came around a corner on to the southern slope I hit a patch of ice and the road took me down the hill, saving grace was my traction mats that got me going in the right direction after I slid into a wash out with a huge rock threatening to remove body panels. Chains for the most part work but sometimes the conditions surprise you before you can get them on.
We always have chains for hunting and use them in mud too
Why would you wear crocs while going on a snow recovery call?
Primal video makes me not trust his advice. Chains are supposed to be on the rear axle as it handles more torque. Unless you have a FWD or chained up all around that’s typically the best outcome. Also, if you have the means to camp you’ll be alright. But if you don’t you could literally die of hypothermia by staying over night.
If your tires aren’t good enough to steer and you are going to chains, then you’re admitting they help.
Chains are better than cables if you can run them. Either will generate a lot of PSI on the snow surface and break apart slick areas that your tread cannot. Combined with a floatation tire you won’t sink.
I need to get some chains for my 35s… I have basically an unused set of the same brand you have iirc that go up to 285 70 17s. Maybe I can just give them to someone needing them in the group.
It’s been a while since i watch but I was wondering if you would get the trailsport pilot or waiting for the passport trailsport!! 2023
Ouch, that silver GX was painful to watch. I thought those at least came with ATRAC. he must have been embarrassed as hell after you just walked right up that in front of him. Should have sprung for a locker before spending 4K on a rooftop tent, haha.
I am missing a definition of deep snow. Most snow in the video doesn't look deep at all. From my personal experience, the benefit of chains on stock 4x4 ends around 40 cm of depth (still not deep). Several meters is deep. If you have a look at the arctic trucks homepage, you probably won't find a picture with chains. However, you see huge tires with really low pressures (3 psi).
So the benefit of chains in shallow snow, like shown in most of the video, is pretty obvious
You answered your own question. It’s all relative. You won’t find artic trucks in the mountainous areas of the contiguous United States of America, you see those trucks in the artic.
For snow wheeling if chains are needed then chain all four!
I've never heard of snow chains not working.
Open diffs are terrible.At least have a limited slip diff. Lockers help even more.Chains are the ticket with these diffs.
Why doesn't anyone show chains getting them out of mud. No mud in your parts?
Hitting that mud hill with some speed would have made it much easier, and a wild ride.
Yeah, it looks like if my friend in the Lexus GX took the hill 2-3 mph faster, it wouldn’t even be an issue.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring or weight could be a factor... at that time, your Honda doesn't have an RTT yet but climbed it with relative ease.
@@anthonydatu3523 good point, plus I didn’t have the tire carrier at the time.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Among other things, I think this is why Suzuki sidekick and Jimny are awesome offroading rigs despite their lack of power.
Tire chains are good for exactly what happened to you. Easy snow conditions turned into icy dangerous conditions and the chains got you out of it.
However, its not a good idea to use them above walking speeds and they aren't helpful if you're in really deep snow. By "deep snow" I do not mean ~1ft on a forest road that an SUV can push thru, get traction, and drive fast enough to lose control. By "deep snow" I mean 2ft+ where digging down just gets you stuck. At the point where you need to drive on top of the snow, then tire chains are not helpful.
So you should have chains, but they are an added hassle and no one really wants to be in conditions where they NEED to use them.
What you guys call snowchains are nothing but junk. Real, studded snowchains from a serious manufacturer (in Norway) doesn’t brake the way you use them, and won’t damage the car. They won’t need rubber bands to stay tight neighter.
Overland trucks with all that weight on it, ofcourse it'll slide down more
Chain up all four wheels every time. Full disclosure, I’m a Florida boy that has more experience in mud and sand than snow. but when I venture up into the North Carolina mountains, in the middle of winter I use quality chains that fit the tires I’m running. One Christmas I spent an entire day pulling vehicles out of ditches along an isolated mountain pass.
It depends on the vehicle. Some vehicles don't have enough clearance from brake lines to run chains. Others only have enough clearance on a particular axle, Always consult the owner's manual for each specific vehicle.
I would think only thing better would be aired down aggressive mud tread above 44" on something under 4000lbs.
Mine did
Lawls at the deepest snow in BC comment for Country Slicker.
Have had experience with chains digging the person down too deep that they became high centered.
That’s what they said in their video, hehe. Thanks for sharing your experience, do you think you would have avoided high centering if you didn’t have chains? Seems like there’s a point when high centering is just unavoidable when the snow gets really deep.
@JonDZ Adventuring firm believer in airing down. We have been flowing on "perfect" snow to the point when I jumped off my truck and sunk to my waist. It was the right consistency to stay above. There is a video from the dash on my channel
czcams.com/video/Q57RzW9UJQw/video.html
@@TRDTercelen looks deep
czcams.com/video/LK4Hr3eXQ7c/video.html
If you set the chains up and you air down before putting the chains on yes you can run air down and still have the chains tight but you have to air down first then put the chains on
CZcams channel "Casey LaDelle" does a lot of recoveries in the snow and talks about how much the snow changes throughout the day.
every offroader ever, traction devices? what are those. Never heard of them
The Lexus at 18min wasn't using ATRAC or rear locker.. I bet it had both.
Lexus GX don’t have a factory rear locker, just a CDL. You can see Atrac working. The Tacoma has ATrac and a rear locker, and was using them. He used more momentum though.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring that Lexus at 18min mark looked like open diffs. ATRAC is more aggressive and it looked like it wasnt engaged at that point. If it was, I can say that my 4Runner (a '22) ATRAC is faster reacting. The Lexus is a beast I think he just forgot to switch it on ..
@@g.fortin3228 my friends lexus GX is very heavy, just imagine how much heavier it is compared to the stock tacoma.
1- Chains like any other traction accessory are good. As with any other equipment, it has its limits. When you're stuck on your frame, ta daaa, limit.
2- Crocs in the snow 😅 But whyyy? 😂 (from a canadian)
Haha! So, I didn't film it, but after the first day of snow wheeling I managed to get snow inside of my waterproof boots. The snow had melted and turned into ice and made my feet numb and in pain. By the time we finally finished the trail, I got out of my rig on nice dry pavement and took off my wet boots. I tried to use the heater to warm up my feet, but they were so frozen that I couldn't feel a thing. It took me about 30 minutes drying off my feet until I finally got feeling back. It was an ordeal, so that's why I was wearing my crocs, because my waterproof boots were wet and cold, and they stayed that way the entire trip. Later on, I learned I could use my snowboarding boots to drive my vehicle, I thought they'd be too big to control the gas and brake.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring learning the hard way 😅
Tire chains do definitely work
You have cables, Heavy D had chains, there's a difference.
They’re called snow chains for a reason!
7:18 it is a dog box
Here is another video that says chains don’t work in deep snow. It’s 4 x 4 Rescue
czcams.com/video/GzvW-ETvQCw/video.html
Yep! If they just did the same things, used large fat tires, aired down, and chained up on all 4, those rigs would float + have grip.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring part of it is the way you drive. The gas pedal isn’t always the answer.
thats a cage for hunting dogs in the bed in the first heavy d video
Snow socks work good in deep snow
"I'm not an expert and I don't think there are many out there." lol there are millions of experts, just read your comments!
Its a dog box id say
It’s obviously a grand Cherokee
The camouflage had me second guessing
@@JonDZ_Adventuring lol looks like a ZJ
Subaru says you can’t use chains on their vehicles
If so, what do Subaru drivers suppose to do where chains are mandatory? Do enforcers know about this and give them automatic passes? Just curious.
@@matrix-fh9tn Subaru owners can get screwed and not allowed to proceed forward. But some owners put random chains to show to chain controls.
But... I have seen modern Subarus with cable chains, since they require less clearance than regular link type chains.
Funny thing, the older I get and the more I know, the less I want to apply what I know. I'll still got out on a trail but when it shifts from fun to work, I'm turning around. That being said, I use chains in town but not on trails. go figure.
Chains aren't fun, that's why people don't want to use them.
Agreed. I very much disliked installing chains on my Jeep 40 years ago even though they work, especially well on ice and packed snow.
More of these fools running around in the snow need to be fined for not carrying chains or left for the coyotes when they get stuck. I learned about snow tires and chains more then forty years ago. Limited slip differentials also make a huge difference when you can get traction. With modern vehicles people just do not learn how to drive in the snow.
Generally speaking in engineering conversations, I see a lot of people take one technical fact and forget about making sense of the whole situation.
Chains dig into the snow - true.
Does it make the whole vehicle dig so much that it effects ability to move forward - unlikely.
Good point Waldemar!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
BTW: I find it hard to explain but I keep having these type conversations when one true technical fact somehow changes the whole situation.
There is a technical language for that in any technical industry but it is rare to see in daily life.
BTW 2: English is not my first language 😃
@@valdius85 I understand you just fine. I appreciate all your comments.
Just the huge variation of snow conditions negates any meaningful conclusions. There are times and places where chains are beneficial for some vehicles, but there is also a good reason you don't see the guys who are dedicated to serious snow wheeling like the Icelanders using chains.
The overland vehicles are not the best offroad vehicle, to begin with. They are often top heavy with poor suspension and clearance. I have hundreds of thousands of miles in snow from the mountains, northern Michigan to the arctic. You keep using the term high center. Chains don't have any effect on high center but what does have an effect is the depth of the snow, I dont see any deep snow in the videos. Take a built jeep in 5' of fresh powder you are stuck and high centered with or without chains and suspension, gearing etc. Depth of snow is measured in inches or feet not by looking. You can buy good quality chains or cheap ones. I've never aired down in snow anywhere. I've never really gotten stuck in snow either, even when purposely burying a blazer in a drift on narrow oilfield roads to allow vehicles to pass. In minus 20 to 40 in a blizzard you don't drive stupid, driving stupid gets you stuck and high centered. Spinning tires dont "polish" snow. Spinning tires create heat which melts the snow, compacts it and makes it slippery. Airing down lessons the effect of deep tread lugs on tires and lessons their effectiveness. I live in Big Bear and have yet to get stuck even when doing Black Diamonds. If its R3 conditions we don't go out not because of my skill set but the other drivers skill sets from down the hill.