Road Tubeless... Worth It???
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2021
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You forgot an important challenge: how quickly does it take to repair a flat once you have one. True while I think setup for tubeless takes a long time, the payback you get actually during the ride outweighs the extra setup time. You only have to stick a plug in or better yet let the sealant do its job to fix a flat. Worst case if its a snakebite flat that the sealant wont hold, the cost of fixing is the same as a tubed tire. In my opinion I like tubeless better (if you couldnt already tell :) )
but what happened if it's a bad flat and you are unable to repair with a plug and sealant won't seal? This is what happened to a buddy of mine, and it was a fucking mess. Say goodbye to the new kit with that mess. He weren't even able to put the tube in and ended up has to uber home. This is the main reason why I do not like tubeless. Always expect the unexpected especially if you're by yourself and in the mountain.
@@asiantrick24 Typically you want to throw a tube in like normal at that point (which I carry for the exact scenario you mentioned with your friend), do you know what prevented your buddy from getting his tube in?
If the tire itself is so badly damaged that it can’t hold the tube anymore, you won’t be able to fix it either way. No matter if you used tubes or tubeless in the first place…
@@domst7363 True dat. Good poor mans way to try to get around that is to slap a tube in and carry a goo pack. Ya eat the goo pack and put the wrapper in the tire behind the hole and pump up the tube and say a little prayer that its enough protection to get you home. If that doesnt work then you are SOL and need to call the sag :)
I ran tubeless for a year until I hit a pothole and got a flat the sealant wouldn’t hold. Took me ages to get the tube in due to bright pink sealant literally everywhere! I’m back to tubes but might give tubeless another try on my front tt bike wheel. (Rear is a tubular disc)
The last road tubeless setup I did took me 15 minutes total and I did it in my dining room during a lunch break and used a regular floor pump to seat the beads. Two tips: for about the same money buy a compressor and a Prestaflator, forget those crazy pumps a compressor makes it so much easier. Use small bottles of sealant with narrow spouts to put the sealant in through the valve stem, forget the injector.
A challenge I'd like to see (and I think most care about) is which is faster, tubeless on GP-5000TL vs tubes (latex) on GP5000. That's about as close to a comparison as you can get where all other variables on the wheels should be zero'd out.
Like you said, it's pretty much required to run tubeless on gravel.
ive actually seen some data that they're nearly identical in CRR (rolling resistance), however, the ride quality can be a little bit different.
@@bryanlrsn7 I think that would boil down to what PSI you run it at. It's also hard to not get confirmation bias on what's more comfortable. I did both on my Hyper 55's running 25c GP5000's and it felt noticeably more comfortable on latex, but I also run both sets of tires at 90 PSI (I weight 180). I'm sure if I lowered the PSI on the tubeless it would feel more comfortably.
my frenemy has the answer 🤘
@@FullDepiction for years Ive heard a to of talk about tire feel and comfort etc... contis for example often dismissed as “wooden.” we’re talking racing here. I fail to see why comfort is any higher than say number 100 on ranked list of considerations.
@@againthebegin For some that might make or break the experience for them on longer rides. What I think it comes down to is if you’re prepared to deal with tubeless maintenance. Me personally, 15 minutes in my basement is more preferred than the side of the road. The video clearly shows there’s a trade off there. But for racing, speed is #1
I run Tubeless for road and gravel. I live in a city, the roads are less than perfect, tubeless is the way to go. On setting up tubeless, if you use wheels and tires that actually respect the new ETRTO tubeless/hookless standards (spoiler, ENVE does not) like Giant, CADEX, ZIPP, you don't need a special pump. The wheels usually come with good tape installed already. You don't even need tire irons with those wheels and tires. Sealant is not a mess with a syringe.
This 100%. My only experience struggling with tubeless have been with older rims and tires before things became more standard. The last 10 times i've put a tubeless tire on i've zero issues inflating with my standard floor pump. No tire levers necessary either because of the internal rim well!
i think a case can be made for having a good tire/rim combo, which makes a big difference for setup time
@@NorCalCycling Good tire/rim combo is key. Also good install technique helps as well. Get the tires seated along the center channel and pump away. The bead will seat quickly. Sealant is easy with a syringe. A lot more can go wrong on the road though. I've had punctures that took longer to seal than I'd like. They ultimately ended up sealing though. You still need to bring a spare tube. That saved me once.
@@liutang Spare tube is a good idea...and don't forget a tool to remove the tubeless valve - your fingers will thank you. A couple of patches (or some gorilla tape wrapped around your mini-pump) and a mini bottle of sealant are also good things to carry on longer rides.
Exactly! Never had to look for this special pump people are talking about in my 3 years of using the tubless Mavic. No need for tape either -- rims got it all covered.
I ran tubeless on my road bike and even in the UK I liked to run the 25mm tyres at 90PSI or so. The tyres felt so smooth and dreamy and I loved it! I used them on a ride over several cobbled roads and at a lower pressure they were great too. However, I punctured on that cobbled ride over a little gravel patch 5 miles from the finish in freezing cold, pouring rain. The puncture was caused by a flint that put a 2-3mm cut in the tyre that annoyingly wouldn't seal, even though it was only a small cut! Replaced with a tube and then tried to repair the tyre later with plugs, patches etc. and nothing would hold or seal properly at anything above 80psi. The repair was messy and very hard with cold fingers and tight, thicker tyres. SO, while tubeless may be great in an ideal world, when it does go wrong it is an absolute nightmare and not worth the hassle. I have run light butyl tubes ever since and have no problem running them with some thin Veloflex tyres. If I had carbon rim brakes or my alloy wheels I run latex tubes and I think they're almost as smooth and fast as tubeless.
My thoughts exactly. I quite like the idea of a dreamy ride. But I'm a glass half empty kind of guy. And the catastrophic nature of any significant flat is too much to contemplate. Cheers
@@BrianRPaterson funnily enough I'm going to try it again, but this time with disc brakes, better sealant and lower tyre pressures (because apparently I should be running 73PSI). If it ends up just as bad as before I'll revert to latex tubes, but I'm willing to try it again with an improved setup.
@@franciss2529 Good luck. I hope it works out.
I've just serviced/topped up the sealant in my MTB wheels and it was a messy and time consuming business.
Conversely, my road bike with 35m clinchers and butyl inner tubes went nearly two years without a puncture.
All I did was keep the tires pumped up to 55-60 psi and rotate the front tire onto the rear once to even out the wear.
I might give TPU tubes a try and see how I get on. But I don't see road-tubeless in my future.
Cheers
go team tubes!
Awww so nice to see you and your husband riding together!
great vid. i too have tried that little gravel section on Montebello up to Black Mountain on 700x25c GP5000s at 90psi and flatted once or twice every time while trying hard on a road bike with tubes. now using a Canyon Grizl gravel bike with 50c tires on it (and tubolito tubes!) at 25psi, no problems with pinch flats or traction despite carrying ~10kg of gear to camp with! thanks for sharing
Hey Jeff, I just want to say that I really love your videos. Keep up the good work!
If this debate continues, you definitely need to touch on the ongoing maintenance too. My gravel bike (tubeless) needs it's sealant refreshed like every 3 months. And if the tire ever goes completely flat, it's often a mess trying to get it sealed up again so that it continually holds air. My road bike on the other hand can sit flat for months and months. I simply pump and go... no ongoing maintenance.
great point that i forgot to mention.
Removable core, never an issue.
@@grantwatson06 I am not sure what point you're making. Are you suggesting that because the tubeless valve stem has a removable core, it makes it easy to put in new fresh sealant?
@@mattnugy I remove old sealant with a vaccuum and put new sealant in with a syringe. Refreshing takes about 2 minutes. I used trucker cream a few times, you gave to pull the tire for that. Orange Seal and Stans usually come out clean. I don't consider this maintenance to be difficult or time consuming.
@@grantwatson06 The point I was making is that it's something you must do periodically with a tubeless setup, when a tubed approach lacks this requirement. And 2 minutes is greater than zero minutes.
I use to really struggle and make a mess installing tubeless but with practice I can now install a tubeless in 15 to 20 minutes top and not spill a drop of sealant in the process. I inject the sealant through the valve with a sealant injector (valve core has to be removed of course) AFTER tire has been seated with a flash can. I enjoy your Videos. Good show. Keep up the good work.
I tried tubeless on my road bike. Hated it. Hated it. Hated it. Hated it. Hated it. Hated it. Got a puncture and it spewed goo all over me, the rider behind me…everywhere. It took weeks to wash off, was a pain to setup and overall a nasty, frustrating experience. I switched back to _latex_ (not butyl) tubes and haven’t had a flat in months. I can change a flat in 2 minutes or less with a tube, and no slimy goo to deal with. It makes sense for MTB, but not road bikes, imho.
Same here. Nice set of tyres such as Veloflex or vittoria's and some good latex tubes. Nothing feels as nice except for a set tubs. I like to run higher pressures and from my experience tubless don't seal punctures well at higher pressures.
I really like your videos. Keep up the good work! Because this is the rare subject on which I feel I can contribute my "expertise", here's some of my unvarnished thoughts on this hotly debated subject:
1. I was a holdout with tubed tires for a long time until I started gravel racing. (Heck I still like to run tubular if I want to go super fast - to be clear - not on gravel!) But I saw the benefits of sealant, easy puncture repair, and said good bye to brand-new tubes pinch flatted on install. Now I only carry a tube because I travel far on training rides and need the insurance for the rare catastrophic sidewall rip.
2. * IF * tubeless were a hassle for me, especially if it took me 47 minutes!?! to setup a wheel set, and made the mess I saw in your garage, I'd still be running inner tubes too! I can SWAP a tubeless setup in less than ten minutes (as I often do for races) with most of the time spent cleaning out the OLD tires immediately after removal to prevent sealant from drying in them. (In fact, I'm totally inspired to do a video to prove it if one doesn't already exist!)
3. Hopefully I'm not the first to point out this important fact: sealant isn't "alien blood", it's android blood. Sheesh! That's why they say someone got "Bishop'd" when they spray sealant!
4. Definitely, have Ray google "tubless setup" and come back to the challenge with a new protocol!
Kudos on the contribution though. It was riveting and amazing to see you all race off-road!
I was flatting all of the time in AZ with tubes on the road, at least once a month, sometimes like 5-6. I've been able to go all the way through a pair of GP5000TLs without a flat once I got set up tubeless, never wasting time on the side of the road. Personally I'm never using tubes again. I can set up 1 wheel tubeless in under 5 minutes after having done it a few times, assuming the rim tape is already on. I don't use the special compressor pump, my regular bike pump is able to get the seal. I just put the sealant in by pouring it in part of the tire I pop off with the lever, not with the injector.
Maintenance for me is only having to pump up my pressure 2-3x a week vs daily with tubes. Then every 3 months if I haven't worn out the tire I just pop part of the tire off the rim, pour in like 3oz and roll that part of the tire back on.
It is intimidating to do if you haven't done it before, but people online make it look and sound 100x more complicated than it has been in my experience.
Supacaz valves are literally like $3 on Amazon, a year's worth of sealant is $20, tire cost is basically the same/just kinda depends on the day. Compared to going through tubes and patches it is a lot cheaper for me, $23 vs $8 tube x how many you blow.
YARGHH!! Curse you, rocks on dirt roads! Fun video and on point (imo) with the "tube-guy" assessment. I don't run tubeless day-to-day, but love the set-up for special uses, road gravel, gravel gravel, and cyclocross.
I was hesitant to switch to tubeless, but gave the Zipp 303s’ a try along with Schwalbe Ones and was SHOCKED at how easy set up was. Regular pump, seated the first time, and haven’t had any issues since. Took me about 10 minutes for everything.
Been running Tubeless for 2 years on road. I had 2 flats only on my rear wheel, none in front.
1st was my fault because the pump that I was using before (bought a new one the next day) implied that I screwed it to the valve core, which unscrewed the valve core when I removed it and I didn't have the proper tool to correctly rescrew the valve core. So I lost air while riding a 100 Km ride, puncture the sidewall, but still managed to get home without having to do maintenance on the road apart from pumping it up once. Patched the tire, bought a proper pump (the same Lezyne you have in the video), and I was set up.
2nd flat, I caught a 3cm nail on the side near the thread, on an 86 Km ride, didn't know about it until later in the evening. The scellant sealed around the nail perfectly for the last 50 Km. When I checked my tire in the evening when I came back from diner, I saw something on the tire that I thought was a bit of tar (they were redoing roads nearby), tried to tick it off, then pulled it off and was surprised it was a nail !!!
Of course, that hole didn't seal, I patched the tire, pumped it up with scellant and rode that tire until there was no thread left, went to the underlying cord !! This rear tire probably rode about 10 000 Km (don't know exactly, because Strava doesn't separate easily the smart trainer distances from the real road distances - over 15 000 Km total on tubeless so far in 2 years).
In my life, this is the first tire that I ever get to the underlying cord !
If the process was less of a hassle, it would be great, and it depends a lot on the tire model. Giant Gavia AC 1 are a pain, but Continental GP 5000 TL are a lot faster to setup.
You should at least consider them for wet criteriums where you could run a lot lower pressure with bigger contact patch while cornering.
I can run lower pressure with tubes for a wet crit and not worry about pinch flats assuming the road quality is decent. now, wet crit or road race with crappy potholled pavement? that's tubeless 100%
Great video I’ve just gone tubeless myself so far so good on my 28mm Pirelli race TLR however 4 years ago I tried the mavic ust tubeless system and after 2 weeks went back to tubes hopefully technology has improved since then
It's way better today than 4 years ago. With the advent of "Hookless" rims, the rim and tire manufacturers have started getting their designs a lot more compatible with each other. Tolerances have gone way down, making it not only easier to get the tire into and off the rim, but also easier to inflate the tire. And the tire holds onto the rim much easier than it used to, so it's safer to keep riding on very low pressure after a puncture.
Great test, and of course we want a sequel! I gotta say though that maybe Ray wasn't the fastest at setting up tubeless - in my experience, once the initial taping/installation of the valve is done, it doesn't take much longer to set up tubeless than to set up with tubes.
You're right there! I definitely am not the fastest. The trickiest thing that the timelapse doesn't show is that a chunk of the time was getting the tire to seat, which I could have saved time on by removing the valve core and spraying the bead with some soapy water. Also, the sealant would leak between the sidewall and the tire before it finally started to seal. We stopped the timer once I felt that no more air was leaking out. Looking back at it, I'd definitely be curious as to how we can shorten this set up time! Maybe a sequel will need to happen :) #teamtubeless
I really only use tubeless in racing on my race wheels. I'm an road racer (CAT3) and found not having to worry about flatting out in a race is nice, I corner a bit more confidently in the wet, and perhaps the marginal gains of less rolling resistance help. Other than that though clincher tubes really make way more sense for the ROAD.
I see lot of comments about fix a flat tubeless tire. For holes, I used plug, same as car tire, don't even need to remove tire, just plug in, cut the excess rubber, pump back on. For big cut, you will have no choice, same as tubed tire.
I have 2 sets of wheels on my gravel bike. 700x32c with tubes and 700x45c tubeless. On a local flat gravel segment, I am 8th from KOM with the tubeless setup, and I am all the way down in the rankings with the tubes. I know the extra width also helps, but it feels so much smoother and confidence inspiring with the lower pressure.
I've had great luck running the 25mm Conti 5000 TL for the past 3 seasons (training and racing). I've only had one flat that required a plug (Stan's Dart) in the past two years on the road (and some off the road). Yes, they are incredibly hard to mount on my rims, but that has been a once-a-season job for me. Speaking of wheel/tire systems, some combinations are far, far easier to setup than others. It's worth doing that research. Overall, though, I'm stunned by how well road tubeless has performed for me.
This is a life saver when you need one the most!
I think for gravel and off-road, tubeless is definitely the way to go. For road, it's still a bit of a toss-up, especially with the fact that tubeless sealant doesn't like to seal small holes at the higher pressures of road bikes.
If you can't effectively air down with the width i don't see the point, on a 2 inch 650b rando tire its a godsend on a 28c road tire it seems like more hassle than its worth
I’m running tubeless on the road with 28mm tires. With the ability to run a lower tire pressure, the comfort is so worth any hassles of installing and maintaining a tubeless setup. Handling too is improved with better traction at lower pressures. I will say that having a compressor makes the job of seating tires MUCH easier. Also, spending a few dollars on a syringe kit will really cut down on the hassle and mess of getting sealant in. The right tools for the job make all the difference in the world. One of the biggest wildcards is how nicely the tires and rims play with each other. Aside from compatibility issues, some tires are notoriously hard just to get on the rim, let alone properly seal. I know things have improved as tubeless becomes more common but do a little homework on what tires will work best for your wheelset if you’re transitioning to tubeless.
Another thing is that with tubes on my road bike I just put an extra tyre liner to protect it form these kinds of punctures even when I am running at 100 psi or above !!! Tyre Liners are a God sent !!!
Good test, always fun. But really all I learnt from this was a massive +1 for modern road bikes! Take them anywhere! Unless your doing all gravel epic adventures. Just roll your road bike everywhere!
pretty much, modern road bikes have great clearance for off-road tires. i made a video about this already, about gravel bikes.
@@NorCalCycling foooor real! I can squeeze 34mm in my supersix and it's the dream if you wanna do a loop with lots of rough stuff
Not all holes repair with tubeless and then you are in a mess literally, they take forever to get off the rim (I know people who have not been able to get them off with roadside levers). Then you have to get the valve out all the time getting sealant everywhere. This happened again at the weekend so I am giving up with them on the road.
I have run tubeless on road for the last 7 years and not going back. The setup, I admit is much longer and can be a pain, especially when you don't yet have experience with tubeless. There extra $$ is not an issue since you only buy a set of valves and rim tape once for every wheelset. You just need some tubeless sealant you top up twice a year.
But the time it takes to setup tubeless vs the number of times you have to fix flats with tubes (I haven't had a flat on my road setup for over 5000km and going), tubeless definitely wins in time savings. And who likes fixing a flat on the side of the road in the rain.
You also get the benefit of comfort, running more surfaces (a bit of gravel), rolling resistance (yeah I know you could invest in latex tubes).
Tubeless on road tires has gone leagues from where it was 7 years ago. The choice of tires is now large, compared to the few models available then. The tire quality is better. Disc brakes means wider tires which are easier to setup with tubeless and reseal much easier in case of a puncture because tire pressures are even lower. I just setup 28mm GP5000 TR tires and was able to mount them with just my thumbs and inflate without a special pump.
The only down side of tubeless I see is that I have to carry a tube with me just in case and it fills my saddle bag gathering dust.
For ppl who ride frequently tubeless sucks on road bikes. To get the true benefit of lower rolling resistance there can’t be any tubeless boogers on the the inside of the tire or rim. This means cleaning rims and or tires monthly. Also in my experience tubeless doesn’t work great for high pressure setups. My tubeless tires have lost all air after flatting and didn’t seal a hole the size of a needle prick. The sealant just shoots out of the hole and gets the bike and your legs all dirty. Huge pita to put tubes in tubeless tires. You have to remove valve stem and then use a tire lever to put on tire because the bead is tighter than its tubed counterpart. Fixing a flat takes like 3 mins. Also if you leave a bike for a significant amount of time sitting, you have to refresh and de- booger to get the real benefits of tubeless.
I'm a Spesh-Venge rider on latex tubes/GP5k (25c @ 110psi on English country roads). Love em. No flats this year. Swapped to 28c for winter/off season.
I'm bias and with Jeff. Not worth the hassle to change, the maintenence. Having to go gravel to prove a point. For road, I just don't see the argument (and here I am fueling the fire!)
Anecdotal, the tubes on my downhill bike at 45psi haven't flatted in over 5 years! So I'd probably go sturdier tyres before I go tubeless
I've heard claims of road tubeless being faster, sounds like a round 3 video to me! (and more riding at the same power in the same position around a loop a few times for you!)
Nice garage and bike rack. I liked your arsenal.
I like tubeless on road bike! There is always something that may screw ya over near the side of the road and tubeless has saved me and many of my riding partners (we saw the juice came squirting out and it sealed). I think the setup isn’t that bad once you understand how to mount the tires on your specific rims. My first two times were definitely horrible, but then it got easier. I do think that deep dish will have a much harder time with mounting the tires though. But I’d prefer to go through it and not having to stop on the side of the road every now and then. Usually, tubeless easily saves most of the flats that may put ya out if you’re on tubes, and the ones that tubeless can’t save are the ones tubes can’t either so you have to call uber home anyway so tbh, I wouldn’t go back to tubes :)
Fun content! Ray was a great co-host too. :)
All things being equal, a flat’s a flat so I’d rather do it the OG way, I don’t want the mystery of trying to fix a tubeless on the fly and keeping it simple is always better when you’re stranded out in BFE. I’ve been extremely happy with my all season road tires, they have seen me thru a ton of questionable terrain and weather. Loved this video, thank you!
Stumbled upon this video today and the comments really made my day.
OMG, the bovine excrement comments about how bad tubeless tire are was enough to fertilize my hay field. There was not a single valid point raised except the slightly more difficult installation on SOME rims. Your whole bike covered in sealant? I couldn't cover my entire bike with 2 ounces of sealant if I tried. Sure some people can repair a tube flat along the side of the road in 5 minutes. But in under a minute? Not even if it is off the bike in a warm shop. I can't count the times I have seen the same tire instantly go flat because they didn't get the thorn or wire or goathead completely removed. And if you used you last tube and have to throw a patch on that 5 minutes is now 10. On the other hand, several small punctures on my tubeless hardly require me to add pressure. I've finished several races and noticed the tell tale white spots or overspray on my forks or chain stays. Each one absolutely would have been a frustrating tube repair. In the last 4 years and 15 triathlons, I had not had a single flat or leak that required stopping.I ride the Queen K from Kona to Hawi a lot. It is notorious for wires, lava rocks, glass and lots and lots of thorns. Before I went tubeless it was not a matter of if you flatted on that ride, but how many times. I've not had a single flat in 4 years since. Admittedly I only ride 2 to 3 thousand road miles a year and your milage may vary. The only time I'll ever stand on a podium will be if there is only 3 of us in my age group. I suppose those who worry about the messy sealant have no problem with chain lube all over their hands or road grime or mud or tubular glue. Flat repairs are messy and no fun no matter how proficient you are. Road debris is a hazard no matter what type of tire you use and sooner or later you may get an unrepairable slice. But I can put a scab on the inside of my tubeless just as easy as patching a tube. Those who complain that they lose pressure over night either haven't completely coated the inside of the tire or more often they have a poor rim tape set up. The initial set up on some bikes may be a bit time consuming but more often than not most new bikes come tubeless ready. Why is that do you suppose? Any good sealant will easily seal punctures at road tubeless pressures. It has been proven countless times. Most plug kits easily seal all but the really nasty sidewall gashes. My wife had one the would only hold about 50 psi but that was enough to safely ride the 20 mile back home. And yes, it did take a good 30 minutes to fully clean up the sealant. But we've done plenty of messy rain rides that required the same amount of clean up. My most recent set of Schwalbe Pro-Ones mounted on my carbon Reynolds wheels by hand except for the last few inches that required my small plastic tire spoon. Inflated with just a regular floor pump.
I replenish the sealant once or twice a year at about 5 minutes per wheel including the minimal clean up. One poster claimed he spent 3 to 4 hours cleaning sealant off a bike. Gotta love getting paid by the hour. Next time try Goof-Off
But, by all means, keep enjoying your 5 minute tube repair stops, your heavy slow rolling Gator Skins and thick tubes. Cling to your rim brake bikes, and your 27.5 mountain bikes.
The rest of the world has moved on.
Thanks for the laughs guys. Keep on riding.
The first time I put tubeless tires on it took forever... Now, I'm using Scribe wheels and tires mount up a bunch easier - no levers needed and I haven't had to use my compressed air tank. For me, I take about ten minutes for both tires but once they're on it's pretty much over. The comfort is much better and handling is better. Also, you can see when you take the tires off to replace them how many times they've been punctured because you can see where the sealant is balled up. I normally have at least four holes that would have interrupted a ride if I were running tubes. This is all on road...
i think a case can be made for having a good tire/rim combo, which makes a big difference for setup time
Funny video. Keep riding another 20 years, you're going to want a smoother ride. I'm now on some zipp firecrests at 50psi with 32mm tires and loving it. Tubeless on mtn forever, on gravel for 6 years. And zipp is on to something, smoother is faster.
I have no problem with tubes (I have a road bike) so I'll stay with them even though I have a tubeless ready wheelset. Tubes are easy to replace, easy to repair. I have a flat like once or twice a year on average with about 10 000 km per year. One thing about tubeless setup that puts me off is when things go really wrong it can be quite messsy. As for pinch flats, I'm pretty light and I think that I had a pinch flat only once. Don't remember when it happened to me. It was light years ago when I hit a stone on the road.
yep. I run tubes because almost all my training is on pavement. if I encounter some gravel sections with my tubes (montevina for you locals) i just have to slow it down for those brief moments
@@NorCalCycling Also during my time spent on the road bikes I found out that occasional off road ride is ok. I always checked the tyres aftewards and they were most of the time fine. I actually never had a flat going offroad on my road bike. And one of the most memorable ride was when I continued on a gravel section on a mountain opposite the Alpe d'Huez, what a view 🙂
I've been tubeless for over a year and it's been seamless. No hassle. As long as you choose parts that work well together it's fine. Fuck tubes on ANYTHING.
The LeMans-style start is key, so thanks for keeping it real! LOL
Just like clinchers some tubeless tire/rim combos are harder to mount than others and some are very easy. One thing not discussed is comfort, tubeless provides a notably more comfortable ride than tubes and you also lose the rotating weight of the tubes. Tubeless can be frustrating at first but like everything else once you pick up a few skills and tricks their a piece of cake and definitely should not take 25 minutes per tire to mount.
Yep, i spent close to 90 minutes maybe more on my set up. I never want to take the tyres off the rims in the future just because I know how long it's going to take to put back on.
Fulcrum Racing Zero with Pirelli Racing Zeros.
Tubeless is no more difficult to set up with the right tools and the comfort provided by running lower pressure is a huge win.
When you are a touring cyclist, which makes a lot of miles, I think the best option is tubeless on a bigger tyre (28mm to 35mm). The more km you ride the more change for a flat, and with tubeless this change reduces drastically.
When you are a road cyclist that want to be competitive, I still suggest this for the winter months, use the biggest tyre you can put on your big en use tubeless. And run a low pressure. This gives you more grip, and more confident on the road even when it is slightly icy. And you don't get a flat that quickly as with tubes. Changing innertubes at sub 5°C isn't a blast. And some hoe I always ride more flats in the winter than in the summer.
But of course do what you like!
Nice video thank you 🙏🏽🔥
Tubeless for wider tyres.
The winter bike ride 35mm, loads of grip in the wet conditions over winter - so far, only a couple of punctures have needed plugging and not had any irredemable punctures.
Summer bike has 25mm with tubes.
The sealant doesn't work as well at high pressures yet.
I totally get running it in plus tires, the weight savings is super noticeable and the ability to air down on chunky stuff is invaluable but anything above 50 PSI and it makes no sense to me and any benefit would be purely marginal for a lot of hassle
Tubeless is a pain to set up compared to tubes, but since I switched to Tubeless I've only flatted out completely twice in the last 10k miles. I've had plenty of small punctures from wires, goat heads (lots of these), staples etc... but 90% of them fix themselves. I think the time in the house putting them together has saved 2x-5x the time on the side of the road.
I have run tubeless on road for a few years.... Despite following the rulebook on setup, I got stuck twice where all forms of repair didn't work... Eventually the trustee tubolito came to the rescue. (but it was messy). Gone back to tubes in road setup.... Easier to manage repairs. Gravel though it's Tubeless all the way. Great fun test gents.
I have done both ways multiple times. I enjoy some qualities of tubules but ultimately back to a tube for simplicity. When you do puncture on a tubules its a much worse situation trying to get the tire off and get a tube in.
I don’t run tubeless on a road bike because the pressures are so much higher than gravel or mountain. On a tire that’s at 80psi, the pressure is going to spray out sealant before it finally coagulates and seals. I’m the process you lose a substantial amount of pressure and you make a mess of you bike and rear. It also makes you question why tubeless still recommends a tube to use as back up. As a bike mechanic, I’ve cleaned way too many bikes sprayed in sealant and I can change a tube in under a minute because I’ve done it a thousand times. So I’ll stick with tubes.
Problem with tubeless road is that if you let the bike sit for several weeks, the sealant tends to pool and dry at the bottom of the wheel and causes it to be very unbalanced. Also if you forget to keep it inflated after sitting too long, the tire deflates and is almost impossible to re-inflate or hold air. Shouldn’t be a problem if you ride the bike regularly, but i alternate through six bikes, and some sit unused longer than the others. I dont have this issue with my mountain bikes.
I'm a total tubeless convert. It's not that much of a hassle to set up at all - put some rim tape on, put the tire on, seat it (I purchased an air compressor which I love, and it was not that expensive), put the sealant in, inflate. It is a bit more of a hassle when you have to change the tire, as it is a bit messier, but I just put down a trash bag, remove the tire, few paper towels, check the tape, put on the new tire, etc. Not a big deal. Pack a couple of paper towels in your saddle bag in case you need to insert a tube when out on a ride, just to get home, but this has never happened to me.
The results? A ride much closer to tubular feel. Amazing grip and road feel. Lower tire pressure. For me, no flats in three years and running now. Not a one. This is compared to 3 flats so far this year while out on my clincher training bike. I hate stopping to fix a flat out on the road. Just hate it. So much so I am building a tubeless wheelset for the training bike. No more clinchers.
As a Bay Area bike commuter who has had to change tires in 40 degree weather at 530am, the quick puncture repair of tubeless is invaluable.
For rides where your not on the clock, like a RAGBRAI, tubeless not so important.
It's worth it. Outside of speed, the reduction in flats, and not carrying stuff (especially if you use the Vitoria AirLiners like I do) is so worth it. Also, poor road conditions (like in Toronto) make tubeless so worth it. Go to your LBS to get it set up and BOOM Challenge 1 done lol
LBS = expensive and time consuming, so it's not for everyone. you still carry stuff in case of a flat though right? unless you want to risk getting stranded.
@@NorCalCycling LBS can be expensive/timing prohibitive, but if you've got a good rapport with one (which I luckily do) it doesn't have to. For the kit, I carry a Dynaplug, but the beauty of the AirLiner is you can ride 50km with no air/sealant and be safe. It works for my 600km+ a week rides. Now, if I were doing long, bike packing, or gravel rides, I'd re-think this, but 200km road rides (even pothole ridden roads like Toronto) I feel totally covered. The way I see it, if the sealant doesn't seal the flat, the dynaplug doesn't plug the hole, and AirLiner doesn't let me get home a tube won't work!
28mm GP 5000 clinchers with latex tubes and sealant. All the same puncture protection (zero punctures in 2021) with zero hassle and I'm too slow to worry about the .00000045329 watts of increased rolling resistance over a straight tubeless setup :-)
I ride road only. Mostly pretty good pavement
edits to add: I changed to sealant in my latex tubes because I occasionally find some dirt/gravel roads when I'm exploring a new area and wanted the extra protection
You put the sealant into the tube?
wut
@@NorCalCycling yup 30ml of sealant in the latex tubes. haven't flatted since and in the case that I do I have butyl tubes in my saddle bag. So I basically get most of the rolling resistance gains wit the latex tubes and the puncture protection of the sealant
Holy crap! Just watched round 1 and I have no where near the trouble setting up tubeless on my road, gravel, and fat bikes. Some of it has to do with rim design and tire choice, but damn, that was painful to watch the 47 minute setup even though it was sped up. My biggest struggle for road tubeless is getting the damn tires mounted. GP5000 TL tires are very tough to get on my wheels. Takes 2 tire levers, and helps to have the tire warmed up in either the sun or a very short time in the oven to ease getting them onto the rims. My gravel bike and fat bikes don't require tire levers, and as long as one bead is seated, I can seat the other bead with a hand pump.
you "have nowhere near the trouble", but then you describe the trouble in detail 😆 tubes are just so easy and fast to change, whether it's the garage or even out in the rain on the side of the road. Tubeless on the other hand...
Thats crazy! This is Montebello open space preserve at the end of Montebello road! I love riding up it on my road and mountain bikes, and shuttling it when I go downhill mountain biking. I'd like to see a scientific comparison on rolling resistance with the tubeless vs tubes. I know tubeless is a little bit lighter, but does it have more friction with the sealant sloshing at the bottom of the wheel? Also whenever I have set up mtb tubeless or other tubeless it doesn't take as long as tubes, because I don't need to worry about getting the tube in, I just inject the sealant after the tire is on and use my usual hand pump. Ive never tried to tape up rims though and id imagine that its not super easy to get it right first time.
such nice scenery
All my bikes are running tubeless (gravel and road). It's pretty nice when all bikes are on the same system. And of course you need to have a compressor 😆
I just can't. I've actually run it once on a Roval wheels and S-works tire setup. Everything was awesome until I got a puncture that didn't seal. That was within 1 month of riding the tubeless tire. I COULD look for a more durable tire but that means worse rolling resistance. Then why am I riding tubeless in the first place?
Then 2 years later I wanted to give it another shot. I didn't wanna compromise durability too much and wanted great performance so wanted to give GP5000 TL on my HED wheels a shot. My god... I have no fingertips left. I tried with levers to no avail for a while. Then I finally got the tires on to find out I put a tear on the rim tape while using the tire lever.... So had to do everything over, at which point I gave up.
Then I bought the Kool Stop tire bead jack. Put the tires on fine with that thing but at that point I decided to give up on tubeless since I'm not gonna carry a giant tire bead jack in my pocket on my rides so what's the point...
Where I'm at is I'd rather run the best tire + tube setup performancewise and do quick flat tire change than deal with the mess and pain that tubeless can be (and it WILL be sooner or later)
this is why i think tubes is the better choice for a dedicated road bike
That zoom in at 0:49. I recognize some foreshadowing when I see it
As you say in California it might not be necessary to run tubeless. I'm in the UK, I was on a bike ride last January, temperature of 1 degree Celsius. I got a puncture on my tubeless ready wheels (run with tubes) and the combination of hooked rims and frozen fingers made it impossible to even take the tyre off. Had to pay 50 bucks for a taxi home. I converted my bike to tubeless the very next week and never looked back :D
Also, not sure it was mentioned, but if you are racing then a tubeless setup makes a lot of sense so you don't have to waste precious time fixing a puncture. If you are a rec rider and don't mind the difficult setup sure go tubeless, I think it is worth it. Dang, I have a huge stock of regular tires that I need to use or sell :-)
I've never done tubeless on road, but it's extremely easy to set up on a mountain bike
If you use it in the park or around the city tubes are fine no reason to spend the xtra for occasional use. But if your doing heavy use and in harsh terrain I recommend tubeless.
it'll be interesting to see an alviso run on tubeless!
I run 25mm Giant tires on 19.4mm Giant hookless carbon wheels. 70 psi front, 75psi rear. Tires go on like butter and seal with a standard floor pump. I’ve punctured but have always made it home. Been tubeless for a year and never looking back.
I have the same rims. 75psi on giant hookless is okay?
@@Jstroman221
The Giant website says for that size tire 70psi is the minimum.
I’ve been tubes + Gatorskins and haven’t had a flat in a very long time. Sure, it’s not the lightest, but the added weight only makes me stronger.
fine for training rides, but be careful on those gatorskins especially if it's wet, they don't grip well at all
I tried tubeless on my carbon hunt wheels (s-works turbo 700x30mm) - got a flat anyway and then was stuck because my thumbs weren't strong enough to break the seal to put a tube in. Gave it another shot, and got another puncture that only partially sealed (held about 30psi, but leaked when I put more air in). Decided to give up and go back to tubes.
only if gravel is part of your regular riding is tubeless worth it in my opinion.
Plugs bro. 3 years tubeless never had to put a tube in on road. If not sealed have plugged, still ride the tire until worn out. Takes 30secs. Hardly ever take out my nicer bike anymore due to punctures (not tubeless). Allez Sprint tubeless, Tarmac non.
@@TheStussy32 100% with this on my gravel bike. But if you lose all your air, plugs don't really work. If it were easier to break the seal and throw a tube/boot in, it wojld be worth it for me, but I am not a fan of being stranded out on a ride.
Took me 3 hours to set up gp5000 tl on some Bontragers but only 15 mins with new hookless Zipp 404s and P Zeros with the ETRTO standard
The part you can't test is the multiple flats you'll get from road debris commuting or training rides. I average maybe 1-2 per year in the 6k-7k miles annually
A couple of years ago, I flatted out of 3 road races in a row. So that's a total of over 10 hours of driving round trip, over a hundred bucks in reg fees and gas not to mention the wasted time. Went tubeless after that. At Bariani the year after, got a puncture, the sealant worked and held about 50psi. Managed to finish and get my teammate to the sprint and on the podium. No way I'm going back to tubes.
I will admit that some tires/wheels are a real pain to set up if you're coming from 2.5" MTB tires. There are specific levers and a tool for mounting super tight tires (search Amazon) that will save the skin on your hands. I like orange seal. For MTB tires, a JoeBlow Booster or air compressor works fine, but for road it's hit or miss depending on how tight that tire is, how much soap you have on there, whether it's been mounted before, the air temperature, the phase of the moon... CO2 works every time the first time.
Bariani, especially if it's raining, is a good race to run tubeless.
For round 3 can you put some tire slime in the tubed tire or maybe run some polyurethane tubes which are meant to be lighter and less susceptible to pinch flats.
been tubeless with vittoria road inserts......for one year NO flats at all yet! by the way say hit to cooper shanks for me! love the rapha jersey!
My road 30c tubeless tire/rim combination is so tight that there is zero chance of installing a tube on the side of the road when the puncture/cut is too large to seal/plug. My solution is a giant seat bag carrying a sharp knife, clincher tire, and tube.
That first challenge with the tubeless setup clearly had an issue. With a proper tubeless tire and tubeless rim, I've never had it take more than a few minutes to get the tire on and inflated. If the wheel was older and didn't have properly sized bead shelves or the tire was older and was too large, then it might take a long time and, frankly, I would not run it.
I'm totally team road tubeless. Out here in the Midwest, the roads are crap and, especially after rain, there is shit all over the roads. I've never had a flat with road tubeless when I've had properly maintained sealant; and the times I've let the sealant get old and did get a puncture that didn't seal, the tubeless allowed me to finish my ride without even having to stop. I don't race, so I don't particularly care if it's slightly slower than a latex tube would be. I wouldn't use a latex tube anyway. Additionally, tubeless tires feel amazing.
Since I've started doing gravel, I can't imagine using tubes. I've had sidewall cuts that you literally just stick a plug in and keep going... Takes less time to get going again than even just changing a tube. I still carry a tube, but fortunately, I've not had to use it yet.
I run a tube/clincher on the front and tubeless on the back. I'm a heavier rider at 6'4" 190lbs and this seems to work for me.
That was hella fun
Were you guys running gravel or road tires? Wondering if they were not gravel specific, what the outcome would have been if they were.
I’m way too fat for road tubeless. Gravel tubeless all day though.
Here in 2023, just bought my first gravel bike, a Canyon Grizl, came with both tires and wheels tubeless ready out of the box, I used my shop compressor and with the right sealant and valves it was even easier than tubes. Times are certainly going to change, but I'm still not sold on 80psi+ on road tubeless.
I was recently in Cali for a long weekend and strolled into a Mike’s Bikes cause of this channel. Fun store and nice people, but they stated the shop/company got bought out and were no longer a specialized dealer. Curious, does that mean you’ll be changing bike setups? If so, or even if not, what would you ride if you didn’t already have your current setup?
Do a steady watt challenge with Ray! Two bikes, same conditions, equal watts, tubeless and butyl lightweight tubes at recommended pressures on the road and on some gravel.
Been running tubeless for over 2 years now. Only had 2 flats (both on the rear). Ran over many questionable thingies on the road, but somehow small tree twigs have managed to finish the job. Nature always finds a way.
I have the worst luck and seem to get a flat every other ride. Since switching to tubeless, I haven't had a single flat. I've had lots of punctures but nothing that did not seal. As for set up time, it did not take much longer than a tubed tire. I know some tires are very hard to get on and but mine were as easy as clinchers and I was able to inflate not problem with a regular floor pump.
I chose the 3rd option - gravel bike ;) with some wider tires (on tubes), a bit slower on a straight, flat sections but way more comfortable and easier to handle
agree, but if you're on a gravel bike i think you should be using tubeless to avoid pinch flats. my opinion.
If the goal is lower psi, the current crop of road wheels have wider inner rims hence allowing wider tires meaning lower psi. After being on tubeless for 10 years, I went back to tubes because of this reason.
The thing I don't like tubeless is its really messy when you get punctured when the sealant won't hold because of the size of the hole to the tyre. So I bring tube eventhough I am using tubeless in case will happen again.
In the end I revert to using tubes. Btw, sealant is hard to remove from your clothes.
I just spent ONE WEEKEND trying to make a tubeless conversion on a Mavic TL compatible. When I thought I had all set and went for a ride - that was last Sunday morning - freaking tires were leaking air. Good Damm it! Worst idea ever! Had to throw them in the bike shop for proper install. I expect serious gains - so far just pain.
Just curious, are they older parts you are trying to convert? Mavic UST wheels maybe? I think with current wheel and tyre standards the tolerances are controlled well enough that these issues are uncommon.
I'm rooting for your gains to come #teamtubeless
I like both... 25's tube, 32's and 2.25 tubeless....
There is one more thing to take into consideration. Even though setting up tubeless is a hassle and an expense if you get a mechanic to do it, if you’re out riding or training and get a flat you can still put in a tube to get you home. So you have that kind of versatility. That is unless you have hookless rims which I can’t imagine would be fun to set up out on the road putting in a tube.
it is not an issue, running enve 3.4ar for almost 2 years now and it just took the same time to put a tube in as it would have taken on a normal non-tubeless setup.
it can be a pain to get a tube in there with sealant everywhere, but i totally agree, tubeless riders should be carrying a tube and repair kit so they don't get stranded.
@@NorCalCycling i always have a pair of "one use" medical gloves, you know, those super thin ones together with a tubolito in my saddle bag. Nothing is worse than having to put a tube in and your hands are soaked in sealant.
Awesome informational video!!! When you’re racing, What PSI do set tires at?
Depends on a lot, but 26c tires at a crit with good pavement about 85 psi
@@NorCalCycling Thank you
@NorCal Cycling have you tried Tubolito or Schwalbe Aerothan tubes? They are (allegedly) much stronger and puncture resistant than regular butyl tubes.
Tubes, tubes, tubes, forever. Mainly because I don't want the extra expense like all the stuff shown in the beginning of this video. I can buy 10 tubes cheaper than the combined components to set up a set of tubeless tires.
Lower pressure means higher rolling resistance. No big deal off road but nasty to repair on the road even though flats are less common.
Jeff, make a test about rolling resistance in real life tubeless vs tubes, also tubeless at different psi (low vs high )
1) an air compressor makes mounting road tubeless tires much easier
2) not sure how you got all the sealant on the floor, personally I wouldn't use a needle injector (they block larger particles), but either way you wouldn't put sealant in until the tire was fully seated
The air pump that we used served as a pretty good compressor! It definitely held more air than I thought. However, you're right here. I think seating the tires first could have been quicker. In the past, I've been able to seat the tires with the sealant already in there, so I gave it a shot here. But, it clearly didn't work as smoothly as I thought haha.
@@raymartinez9112 Obviously you can mount them with the kind of pump you used, it's just light-years easier with an air compressor because of the volume of air at your disposal to blow the tire on the rim. Plus a small 4 gallon compressor can be had for around the same price as one of those pumps. Definitely would recommend to anyone who does tubeless.
Jeff can you do an Alviso speed test with same bike, same wheels and tires but once on tubes, and one tubeless?