Why PMI Isn't As Terrible As You Think
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Is PMI a rip off? Or can it be leveraged to help you use your home like an investment?
Download the PMI calculator: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
- GET STARTED -
🏠 Connect with a helpful LENDER in your state → www.winthehouseyoulove.com/le...
🏠 Connect with a helpful AGENT in your city → www.winthehouseyoulove.com/agent
- HELPFUL TOOLS -
✅ Max Purchase Price Calculator → www.winthehouseyoulove.com/ma...
✅ Lowest Cost Loan Calculator → www.winthehouseyoulove.com/lo...
✅ Home Buying Planner →
✅ Today’s Interest Rates → www.winthehouseyoulove.com/to...
✅ Step-By-Step Home Buying Timeline → www.winthehouseyoulove.com/ti...
✅ Student Loan Savings Calculator → www.winthehouseyoulove.com/st...
0:00 Why PMI Isn't As Terrible As You Think
0:07 What is PMI?
0:09 Required in Conventional loan
1:01 Free calculator
2:00 Scenario
6:11 Two options
6:49 Option A
7:03 Option B
7:16 Which is better?
Kyle Seagraves - NMLS 1701021
Only for educational usage. All calculations should be verified independently. Win The House You Love LLC is not a lender, does not issue loan qualifications, and does not extend credit of any kind. This is not an offer to lend and should not be used to make decisions on home offers, purchasing decisions, or loan selections. Not guaranteed to provide accurate results, imply lending terms, qualification amounts, nor real estate advice. Read the full disclaimer here: www.winthehouseyoulove.com/di...
We bought a house with PMI in 2018 and I'm glad we did. We've paid maybe $10,000 in PMI but said house is now worth over $100,000 more than it was when we bought it. So we are in a good position to sell and put 20% down on a nicer house, thus avoiding PMI again.
I gotta thank you man for real. I watched you a lot last year when I was considering buying a house. In one video you mentioned Dave Ramsey so I went and looked him up. I found his baby steps and instead of getting a house I decided to pay past charge offs/debt. I paid off all my debt and now am saving for a house deposit again this time debt free. It really changed my mindset and how I will approach buying a house. I would have never found or done any of this if I hadn't found you. So honestly thank you a ton I love your content and smooth voice. I will recommend your videos to anyone considering buying a house. Hope 2022 is a good year for you, you deserve it.
I’m in the same boat. I’ll be completely debt free next month and will be in a better position to enter the house hunting than where I was 4-5 years ago. Took my lumps and learned my lessons. The last two years helped significantly, and I have a new perspective on the purchase process.
That's great to hear man congratulations! The weight lifted off your shoulders after paying that debt will motivate you even more. I wish you the best of luck in your house buying journey. 2022 is our year!
I have a whole degree in Finance, work in the industry and never noticed the similarities between margins and PMI 🤯
Haha it's an interesting analogy!
It was so valuable to be able to plug our info into the calculator. We have a low monthly pmi cost and high market appreciation, but there is such a stigma around paying PMI it always makes me second guess myself. Great video!
Great info. Yes, usually you hear PMI being a bad thing but if you can buy a house with less than 20%, I say go for it even if you have PMI. Saving for 20% down payment is tough.
Thank you for your videos. Binged watched when my husband and I started our house buying journey and they kept me a step ahead of the game and I knew what the lenders and realtor was taking about. They helped me ask ask the right questions and even advocated for myself when it came to our loan type. We struck gold on our first home and grateful for these videos. Still learning!
My family is on track to buy a home in the near future. I've been watching your channel and Javier's to arm myself with knowledge so there are few or no surprises when the time comes to take the plunge. I wanted to take the opportunity to say THANK YOU for making a scary endeavor less frightening, more manageable, and helping me and so many others feel empowered on making such an important life decision.
Stay safe, be well, and keep rocking your channel!
Very helpful Kyle! Already using your Max Purchase Price calculator and love it, this will help assess my unique situation further. Initial timeline to buy was Fall 2023 (although it'll be sooner due to promotion and bonuses) but this info will help me reassess. 🙏🏾
Thanks Kyle. I didn't quite understand my loan officer when he explained that to me about 2 weeks ago. Now I get it. You have no idea how helpful this video is. I smashed that like button.
I'm so glad to hear, thank you for liking!!
So glad you made this video! no one talks about these comparisons and gives a glimpse into options we have to buy a home!
Thanks for watching!! I hope it helps show a more complete picture of PMI :)
@@WinTheHouseYouLove Question, do you know any good banks for competitive jumbo mortages? I am seeing typical down payment of 20% but wonder if there are any other competitive offers.
You make my mind so clear now..love the way you explain everything. Thank you! Just subscribed 🥰
Awesome! Thank you!
Great insight on this one! Also Happy New year, May this year be nothing less than a blessing for you & yours
Thanks! Happy New Year!
I was watching your guest appearance yesterday and you were amazing as always man!
Thank you!!
thank you for the insightful video and offering your spreadsheet to to help folks like me!
My pleasure!
Thank you for your guidance it's always so helpful.
Glad to help :)
Exact video I was looking for. The calculator is a plus!! I’ve been chasing 20% down in expensive CA forever because the appreciation keeps going up. Decided to put 10% down on a new construction with enough cash to close with some upgrades and cash reserves.
Brilliant, it's so difficult to catch up with appreciation in those high-cost areas!
Great Info Kyle! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks!
Hey Kyle, love your videos! You’ve taught me so much and I am very appreciative.
I have an idea for a video for you. Could you go over the pros and cons of potentially buying an investment property before your home.
Thanks! Great suggestion!! I've been hearing more and more about them recently, so I will add it to my video ideas list :)
This is why I follow u!!! Great vid!!!!
I appreciate that!
This was SOOOO helpful! Thank you !!
You're so welcome!
This was excellent! Thank you. 👍🏼
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, so how does taking in interest savings complicate this?
Hi been listening to you lately since we have plans to buy our first house. Your video is very informative and I'm learning a lot.
If you don't mind, I would like to ask/clarify what to do for the "My Saving Goals " , do i need to pay that to the PMI on top of my monthly mortgage? thanks in advance
This is definitely another one of those topics where it really depends on each person and their personal situation. Either one is a viable option. Great video!
For sure, thanks for watching!
Fantastic video
Thanks you!
Thank you so much for your video. Can you please tell me what happens to the PMI amount we pay every month? Does it revert towards the total amount we owe on the loan? thanks again!
dude great content for real
Cool! Thanks for watching. :)
Thank you ! 🥰
You’re welcome 😊
Really cool info to consider! One question I have though, is this assuming that your rent (option A) and mortgage costs are the same? As an example, I can save more right now as I'm renting, but if I buy, my monthly mortgage would be higher and I wouldn't be able to prepay the mortgage as easily. Something to consider that could be integrated into this sheet in the future!
Ooh interesting perspective, I'll look into adding that!
Exactly what I was thinking. My savings margin will definitely shrink a lot when I buy. The overall principle stays the same though.
My new mortgage’s first payment was 25$ extra principal. That knocked 2 months off a 360 month loan. If you make 1 extra principal only payment on a 360 month loan, that’s knocks of around 6 to 7 years of a mortgage. So if you cannot pay the same amount to principal as you would be saving for a down payment, you can still drop PMI faster by putting just one extra payment a year to principal. It is why some people go with bi-weekly payments on their mortgages. Because your pay 26 half payments per year witch equals 13 months of payments.
Another thing not mentioned is that if you decide to wait and save for down payment you have to live somewhere. That’s rent expense vs paying for your own.
Me and wife bought our first home for $257k with pmi. Now house is worth $360k we refinance knocking our interest from 6.25 to 2.875, and we were able to knockout our pmi. We made a great choice...
That's awesome!
For first time homebuyers, would you say this strategy would still work if you still need to pay off student loans as well? And would a 15 year loan be a good choice? Thank you for the thorough content!
It could if you still had the flexibilty of paying the savings into the mortgage. I think I would need to crunch the numbers on if it's worth paying off a debt first or buying now - maybe an idea for another calculator :)
Personally, I'm a fan of 30 year loans since you can always pay them like a 15 year but you have the lower payment obligation if you need it (e.g. loss of hours because of a global pandemic)
another thing to consider is that you wont get the best interest rate if you dont put 20% down, overall yes opportunity cost is a factor to consider, but if we talking about just pure final cost out of pocket, 20% down in most cases is the more effient way, also it gives you the a better shot in a competive housing market like we just seen.
Closed on 341K conventional loan, 5% down and my PMI is $68. I waited longer than I should have to buy. I listened to people saying wait until you have 20%. Have an emergency fund so I’m good. Every scenario is deferent so do your homework.
Ooh that’s nice . Mine is $152 for $220k. Maybe b/c it’s a multifamily home.
@@christi-annebeatty5456 great to read that your a homeowner:) out of curiosity what was your APR?
@@bencortez9907 3.75 FHA with a downpayment assistance
@@christi-annebeatty5456 FHA has a higher PMI than conventional
There are good conventional loans out there for first time home buyers. deposits as low as 3%, low interest 2.75% and no pmi even with 3% down.
This is a great tool, I'm going to use this!! Question: so when they talk about rehabbing based on value, couldn't I refinish my basement and/or kitchen and see if the appraisal increases my value for the PMI to fall off? Like find high-value renovations in my area and do those?
Awesome!
@@WinTheHouseYouLove Sorry, I edited my comment after your reply mistakenly. Can you expound more on what improvements you typically see that help remove PMI faster? Especially for folks who have a lower down payment (3%-5%), and had to purchase a lower-cost home as a result that likely needs more improvements?
@tmcdgreem you are going to want to check with your lender on the timing of using improvements to get a new appraisal to increase value. Also, if this lender sellers the loans, it might be different down the road. Just to use appreciation generally I think the wait time is 2 years standard, but again, it’s a lenders discretion. Also remember, what you spend on renovations does equate into equity. Example, a tankless water heater isn’t going to add value, as the comps all have heated water. If you spend 20k to put a wrap around deck on your house, and you get 2-3k in value on an appraisal for that, that is a good thing. Materials and labor don’t mean anything in terms of equity.
Oh, @tmcgreen I believe FHA has rehab loans for purchase where the costs of improvements are part of the loan. So essentially you’d get a loan for more than the price of the house, but not sure the hoops to go through for the actual work once the house is yours,
@@drewcoleman738 Thank you for all this great info!!
Aren't you also able to pay the PMI outright when you first purchase the house, that way you don't put down 20 percent and don't pay PMI over since period of time
Interesting perspective on PMI. If I buy a home as an LLC or S Corp does that monthly become a tax duction?
you can’t buy under a business without putting 20% down …..so it doesn’t apply
In a fast moving market for first time home buyers who will stay in the house 5 plus years use the PMI in a low interest rate environment( below 5%) to get in the housing market. Then aggressively pay down till you can take off the PMI.
If you are in a deprecating market the year of your first home purchase; with the enough funds to allocate don’t use pmi.
It really opened my eyes about it, math is good 👍👌
Thank you.
Thank you for watching.
Hi does it matter how you gain the 20% equity. For example if your house appreciation have gone up because of the market can you get the pmi taken off? Or you have pay down your mortgage until I hit 20% equity
It doesn't matter how you get the equity. The example in this video is assuming home appreciation at 2% that would allow PMI to be removed.
Some people may make improvements that help them gain 20% equity even faster.
I put 10 percent down and bought out the pmi; a strategy I learned last minute.
What about other options? Such as, paying PMI up-front, or accepting a higher interest rate? What would be the most cost-efficient way, without a 20% downpayment?
We are gonna look into paying the PMI upfront and buying the interest rate down.
I've always put 0% down, using the VA loan though, by far one of the best benefits
sure, since everyone is in the military, everyone can use this strategy.
When the lender do reappraisal on borrower request to remove PMI, does the lender add the amount of money the borrower paid from the principal when they calculate the home value in addition to the appreciation or not?
The amount of principal balance owed at time of the appraisal is the number the lender will be looking at to determine if PMI can be dropped. So, yes if I am reading the question correctly.
I put 18% down payment but the lender said I have to pay the PMI for two years. I thought when it reaches 20% the PMI is gonna be removed? Thanks
Not many people are willing too wait to save up 20% dp, especially not in this market with price and rates going up.
I'm trying to get rid of my PMI when we closed there was a word used "re..."-something but it wasn't refinance. She said we could do that with our mortgage to remove our pmi once we have 20% which we do and lower our interest rate. Would refinance be a better option or do you know that "R" word she could've been talking about?
Recast? That's when you pay a lump sum of principal into the mortgage and then readjust (lower) the monthly payment. It will not lower the interest rate.
I’m going for 10% or 15% down. 5% down makes the mortgage payment too high in my HCOL area.
Sounds like a plan!
@@WinTheHouseYouLove Thanks, Kyle. Your videos are super helpful and I appreciate the way you walk us all through this process!
Orrrrr option c buy a cheaper home an sell it then buy the new one
I’m a bit confused because I was under the impression pmi stays on regardless for the life of the loan on fha. So we’re you referring to use these strategies on conventional loans?
This is for Conventional loans
Hi, Kyle! Is it okay to re-finance my car now if I don’t plan to buy a home until around 2.5 years from now?
Yep, that's ok
@@WinTheHouseYouLove 🙏🏾 thank you!
Theoretically this method seems viable. But you’re dismissing the increased interest rate with the low deposit, which is an increased mortgage. Plus you’re spending roughly 4500 dollars on your house every month (based on my current market) with a higher interest rate. This method is only viable if the 4500 was in your budget prior to even purchasing the home. But if that additional 1600 is going to leave you house poor, then you shouldn’t do it.
Great information however! Everyone should make the best decision that works for them.
With a good credit score, there are plenty of lenders that can give you their best rate at 5% down. You also leave out that with historic-low interest rates now rising to temper inflation, there's a good chance you'd be locking in a higher rate on a home that has also appreciated in value if you took that costly time to save that extra 15% in order to avoid PMI. If you're ready to buy and you can afford the house, this video makes plenty of sense.
This is great on FHA where it doesn’t remove unless you refi into a conventional loan. PMI is a rip off
Hello👋 question. My Lender offered no PMI on my Conventional loan which was great. At the closing table my Realtor explained it's only good for one year. Isn't that something the Loan Officer should have told me way beforehand or is there more to it?
Hmm, I'm not quite sure what that means by "only good for one year". I'm assuming they were talking about something like a home warranty?
A real estate agent should not be giving advice about loans.
My realtor was referring to the PMI. Looking back it just seems odd so I'm trying to figure out a way to present my issue with both my realtor and loan officer. Thank you for your response.
This could be a case of a lender paid PMI for 12 month promotion thing. That’s what you’d be looking for in your paperwork. In the past it was a thing.
It is much easier to put $1300 in savings when you aren't making a payment on a home you just bought with 5% down. I think your model is missing that fact and just assuming the extra 1300 would be there on top of the new mortgage payment
Except when PMI prevents you from buying a house altogether because it makes your monthly payment too high and exceeds DTI limits, even for "starter homes" in this market.
Best plan in that scenario is to lower your DTI first.
@@jerrytsunami in this scenario the reason DTI is so high is because of student loans. So it's not that simple.
If you were to just save $377 (your saving on PMI and Intrest, by paying 20% down) for 48 months. 377 x 48 = $18,096. Instead of buying now with 5% and getting to save $7,000 over 48 months.
You assume the price of the house will go up, sometimes the price will go down after you buy. Look at 2007 to 2009.
Zoom out. The 30 year historic appreciation rate (inclusive of downturns) is +2% per year.
One thing you are not really accounting for is that in competitive markets, most buyers don't accept offers with 5 or 10% down if they have 4 other offers with higher chances of closing.
That's not what this video is about. It's simply looking at the math.
@@WinTheHouseYouLove Just leaving feedback for someone who is watching this video and is convinced to not put more than 20% down. This is a multi-faceted decision and my input is one that needs to be taken into consideration. Thanks!
He’s one fast talker!
Haha can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, a lot of people tell me I talk too slow lol
...you can literally control the playback speed...welcome to the internet...
...I tend to listen to his videos at 1.25x because he speaks too slow for me...funny that...
Wow $2k to become a CMA? Is this worth it? Thanks
So if you have PMI and your house does get foreclosed on, you still have to pay back the loan, even though they took the house back and got their money back because of PMI?
In a foreclosure the bank will gain ownership of the house and then sell it.
If the sale covers the amount owed on the mortgage and fees the bank incurred, then the owner will not owe anything.
If the bank sells the house and it is not enough to cover the remaining loan balance, then the owner can be sued for the remaining loan balance. PMI only covers the lender for 80% of the value of the home.
Remember: PMI only directly benefits the lender.
@@WinTheHouseYouLove gotcha. Thanks for the reply.
that is a way to look at it and is great and all, but most people that dont have 20% to down, also dont have extra money to pay additonal towards their principal, therofore, for most people paying pmi is more costly.
That is not the scenario this video covers as I explained in the video
@@WinTheHouseYouLove I get it, the scenario is assuming that people would be able to do extra payments towards principal. Im just saying that scenario is likely not practical for most people(because most people wont be able to affort additional payments), and end of the day will end up paying more on PMI.
@@WinTheHouseYouLove however, if people are financing, I do think people should buy now instead of waiting because prices are not going to drop ( at least not a sustatial % like 2008), but interest rates are going up for sure. PMI or not, I think lower rate is better long term (if financing).
@@WinTheHouseYouLove so just to confirm, in this example you if you were to go the 5% down route you would need to be able to pay $1,475 IN ADDITION to your normal mortgage payment?
I don't know if I would personally pay ~180% of the required mortgage P&I payment for 4 years. Ouch. But yeah, one could gain $30k in this case. It's definitely an interesting investment strategy if you can swing it.
Certainly don't have to! It just shows the comparison that when people say "I'm going to save 20%" they would have to save that aggressively. Then the question is do you put it in savings, or do you put the house and put it there. Mathematically, the later option is the best. A lot of people look at home buying scenarios without an effective alternative and they miss the opportunity cost.
@@WinTheHouseYouLove Yeah I have yet to buy but I am starting to realize I should habe years ago. For the point you laid out in the video there is probably a good balance between making higher payments with PMI and still realizing decent futures gains. Maybe like 30% higher than the mortgage 🤔. I'll be keeping this in mind in my search. Thanks
PMI saved me when I had to sell my home at a loss. If I hadn’t had it, I wouldn’t have been able to get out of it.
Woah! So it payed the rest off like gap insurance?
@@CamEats123 Not exactly. In my situation, I was selling in a severely depressed market. My mortgage was over $30k more than the selling price. My agent worked with PMI and the bank to get the sale completed. I still had to pay $5k to the PMI company (over time) but that was better than coming up with $30k!
@@effiejames9129 Thanks for the explanation, glad it worked out for you.
That seems like a really unique situation, did you have a rare circumstance that allowed this deal to be crafted or if that’s the case you can negotiate with them like you?
Nice! Thanks for watching!
I put 5% down on a $277,500 note. The PMI is $44 monthly.
Wow! Thanks for watching!
PMI worth it i bought a home in October 2020 with 10% down for $187k PMI payment $58 month. House is now worth $255k made around $70k if i would have waited to buy would have missed out on that and not gotten a 2.75% rate and way higher monthly payment.
Great to hear!!
Another thing to consider is that if you choose to wait to save up a 20% down payment, you’ll be losing significant amounts of money every month to renting!
Good point! I'm working on a new version of this, I should include that in there :)
The Fiat debt system encourages debt over savings. Don't put down 20% because the house you like will cost 50% more in a few years.
In my honest opinion, I still thing if the lender demands pmi and it protects the lender only, the lender pays for it out of their pockets.
Some lenders do that... and they charge a higher rate. It's better when it's listed out and you have the option to remove it rather than get a higher rate.
Yep what people forget about is appreciation of the home and inflation.. inflation now is fucking insane. your dollar today is worth a hell lot more now than in one year.. pay less up front now because you can reinvest it in something else... meaning in 2-3 years your pmi will literally be the equivalent of pennies.. lock in a shit interest rate then just get a better job at a different company that pays you 20k more and you are good.
Don't listen to dumb ass fiat scammers in financial advisors and bankers.
For sure, a mortgage is a solid hedge against inflation. Your loan is worth less and less over time! (which is a good thing)
this was my mistake 5 yrs ago
Let's hope that you will remember this when you purchase your second home. Thanks for watching!
"As LoNg As ThE aPpReCiAtIoN iS hIgHeR tHaN tHe PmI cOsT". How about for markets that have gone up 10, 15, 20% annually the last few years? Is the appreciation the next few years going to cover the cost then? How about if there is a 25% dip in home value the next 48 months?
Yes. In your examples 10% is much higher than 0.65% (average PMI cost). It seems like you didn't actually watch the video.
Theoretical suggestions are not good data points. Historical data supporting a model is more likely. Which is why this example uses 2% appreciation that has been the historical average over the past 30 years.
@@WinTheHouseYouLove I watched the hole video. What I'm saying is the historical average doesn't pay off in 48 months if you buy into a bubble since you cannot count on appreciation of 2% per year EVERY YEAR. Say you bought in 2012 for 44k. Now your value is 300k 10 years later. That's more than 2% per year. So the PMI was a really good deal in that case, as long as the value holds. Alternately, if you bought in 2007 for 300k and 48 months later in 2011 your home value is down to 160k, now the PMI doesn't make sense.
First here 👌
Legend!
I have an 80 dollar pmi but for the life of the loan 😢 usda loan
Pretty cheap MI! You can always refinance into a Conventional loan to remove MI if you're at 20%+ equity.
Might take a while to break even on the refinance closing costs if unless you're getting a lower rate with the refinance.
@@WinTheHouseYouLove I think it is over 20 % equity so I'm not sure if I should wait or not.
It’s not $80 flat though. It goes down every year. Check your amortization table to see the change.
@@ganthc really?! I had no idea. Thanks! I'll do that