Microtech MSI lock failed. See why & how to fix it. Is it a good EDC knife candidate?
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- I expected more from Microtech. The design is great, but it looks like they cut an important corner in production! I was able to fix the issue and NOW it’s worth more than what I paid for!
This video includes disassembly and reassembly
This video is for entertainment purposes only! The author advises you to not attempt this major physical alteration of the Microtech MSI Ram Lock. Do not attempt Modifying, Folding, Striking or Testing Microtech MSI or any other knife equipped with the Ram Lock mechanism in the manner shown in this video may result in a serious injury
.
#edc #knife #microtechknives #
#microtech #benchmade #osborne
#diy - Jak na to + styl
I really hope the 2024 models are fixed. Just bought my 16 year old Son one yesterday for doing really well in school. His is dated 4/2024.
I just published a short video where you can see that they fixed the area of the blade’s tang where it engages the lock. You should be able to identify which variant you have. In 4/24 they were shipping both variants. Recommend returning to the vendor and re-ordering to make sure your son has the safer knife.
czcams.com/users/shortsnp9a53pNYB0?si=FLrwQFc4z4NpZbfF
Just got an aluminum ram lok stitch and amphibian. I'm relieved the lockup is rock solid and remains locked when I spine whacked them. I'll report back if anything changes once theyre broken in more. Really impressed with Microtech.
You went from a leather glove to a full body armor and clamps to hold the knife 😂.
Great review and thanks for pointing that lockup issue.
Thank you for making this. I have been searching for an answer since receiving my msi which also failed a very light wack on my knee. At first I thought the spring was weak and wasn't pushing the ram lok out to full lock but your analysis looks to be spot on. May end up doing this to my msi and stitch. Do you have any tips so I don't fuck up my blade tang?
I just did an unboxing video of this one and was wondering how to fix the lockstick, thanks brother!
How did it go?
@@CuttingBoardRx its fine now!
@@the_knights_edge did you catch my video showing that Microtech modified the ram loc? They actually knew there was a flaw.
@@CuttingBoardRx no I'll have to check it out
Thank you for the information. I may have to make this adjustment on mine. My description of the MSI to others when I added it to my buy list. "If a Demko Sharkfoot had a liaison with a Benchmade Osborne 940 while a Chris Reeve Inkosi Insingo sat on the dresser across the room adding encouraging commentary".
Excellent repair and video. I will be repairing mine soon. Thanks !
Just want you to know, the ones coming out of Microtech now have that exact fix applied. You may want to consider selling yours and getting one dated 05/23 or later.
@@CuttingBoardRx Thanks for the advice, but I love fixing and building. I'm quite certain I can deal with this.
Great Video. I like videos that not only show an issue but also show how to fix an issue. Great Video. By the way, I absolutely love my Microtech RAM-LOCK Folders, especially the MSI. I find it to be a super useful everyday carry folder. Its ease of use and its weight not being too heavy and its super useful blade is excellent for everyday cutting chores.
One thing, mine, are 10/2023 MSI and Amphibian Folders, and the Lock-Bar on my MSI Folders goes almost all of the way forward, already and they don't fail the Wooden Table Top Spine Whack Test.
But, on my Amphibian Folders, there's a big gap, like you showed on your MSI. This makes me wonder if they fixed the MSI due to your video and not the Amphibian... My Amphibians are my Collector's. So, I am not modding those. I thought I was going to carry the G-10 Amphibian and I installed Skiff's into it. And, then, after carrying it for a week, I decided I liked the MSI more. :-)
And, if the one's I carry, the MSI's, mess up, thanks to you, I know how to fix them. Thank you for sharing. Personally, I am a long-time Benchmade Axis-Lock User. And, I must admit, I absolutely love the New Microtech MSI RAM-LOK Folders; they, absolutely "ROCK!!!" :-)
I like the RAM-LOK better than I like the Atlas-Lock. Why? It functions better and is easier to use. And, I have more faith in the Coil Spring than I do in Omega Springs. Well done Video discussion, Bro! :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
Same thing happened to mine. Spine tap caused the lock to fail. The MSI lock had a similar gap as your knife. I sent the knife back to Microtech for repair. They sent it back and the gap was gone. They should have caught this issue in their QC process. Great video!
This is good to know. I received mine the other day and have this lock issue so away to MT it goes. Glad they can actually fix this through warranty and I won’t have to mess with it myself.
Thanks for the video and sorry for your wound. I always learn something new watching your videos
I have a clone stitch in D2 for my daily beater and To do lot of task in my workplace, i noticed that the steel liner is double the thickness of the original one which is very thin.
The lock is perfectly fine and very strong but there is huge gap in front of ram head like more than 2mm so i will do the same thing to improve the lock, THANK YOU SIR.
Good lad you, that's an improvement for sure.
I noticed that it sounds different after doing this. It is very solid now. Awesome video. Thanks. I also have the same knife sharpener so that was useful.
Glad you enjoyed it! Please share the videos that you like with your friends to help me grow the channel 👍
I did share it. With my friend
Can't wait to see the Benchmade Narrows video of the used knife and what broke/didn't break
I did the spine test on mine and didn't have this issue. Gave it some pretty good wacks on my table. Sounds like this one slipped through QC. I did the same to a couple other ones I have and same thing no issue. The gap on the polymer version I have is around .60-.58 slightly less than yours had original, though I feel like that's not much difference. I guess I got lucky.
Excellent video - thanks.
Nice fix, dude. Did you introduce any blade play by removing material?
That is really clever to put a paracord sheathed metal rod behind the axis lock. I would love to try the same thing. What size rod did you use and what material??
You should test the spyderco manix 2 lock. I think it’s a similar design, and it would be neat to see how it stacks up. Maybe with some slightly better knuckle protection though.
I’ve tested it on the Manix 2. No failures. It’s extremely solid.
I’ve got two MSI‘s and both have this problem. I’m on the fence about whether to sell them or to try and do it. This guy did.
@@CuttingBoardRx I’ve already got one.
It is more solid, but the Ram Lok makes me nervous.
@@squigglydoo9386Given the fact that companies are going to be coming out with some badass custom scales for these things I suggest you get a pair then do this mod while you have then off already. I'm with you, I'm very disappointed that my msi has a bad lock but I'm also very glad that the fix for it us very easy.
Yes sir!
A manix 2 lock failed on me stabbing through a hard piece of plastic to make a cut during a job. Luckily I didn’t get cut.
Great fix man
Thank you i just purchased this knife and definitely going to have to refit the engagement surface
I also did this on my Stitch Ram lock. Be very careful careful not to remove too much material from the back of your blade. Watch this video first:
Straight Answers to Microtech Amphibian Questions:
czcams.com/video/uouaZlInYLI/video.html
@@CuttingBoardRx Thank you I watched that video first!
@@CuttingBoardRx I tried this before any fitting and I'm pleased that it passed!
The gap is part of the design to allow for wear
it’s not
The bs about the gap being there for a reason is a convenient lie that is targeting unsophisticated consumers. Bull!!!!
What happens if you never spine wack? I must be the only one here that has never spine wacked a knife and never had a reason to.
No, you are not alone. I think this is sheer stupidity. Why would you use your $200 knife as a hammer in the first place? Go to harbor freight and buy a $2.00 hammer.
Any forces that can counteract the tension of the spring can lead to failure in axis style locks.
I am yet to see that happen.
All that I see is you’ve accelerated the room that MT has left for wearing in of the lock. Sure it did the trick, however in my experience, allowing the parts to wear together ensures the system faces to itself, creating a stronger lock. Either way works though.
Spine impact is not a very realistic test in that when the user tests it, it’s sharp impact in a specific area. In stabbing and redirecting the blade in real life scenarios, the pressure is usually not blunt and its spread out.
"Microsoft Ultratech" made me giggle lol...nice catch on the desgn flaw though, I wonder if all their MSI's came out like yours, I'm trying to get my hands on one now, they're pretty much sold out everywhere...BladeHQ announced it as knife of the year not long ago, so it's got all the hype, for $175 though, I won't complain for a Microtech, flawed or not, I'll fix it!
Hope microtech will fix the issue
I just picked up an amphibian and the lock is not failing on the spine whack, and it does have a pretty decent gap above the ram head. The lock is still a bit stiff, once it breaks in more maybe this will happen? Well if it does, at least I will know how to fix it 👍
Update: It shuts easily on the spine whack now that it is broken in.
@stevetheripper7675 did you see the video I posted that covered all 3 Ram Lok knives in my possession?
czcams.com/video/uouaZlInYLI/video.htmlsi=8bMVKvSxT8iRor2Z
The Axis lock can separate a fool from his money while a RAM lock can separate a fool from his fingers.
To all the people saying “there is no issues and that this type of use/test falls outside of the intended design parameters”.Okay they why was there a silent redesign alleviating this “non-issue “.
1:55 that's bad advice!
the lock is not ment to be stuffed with a metal bar, if anything you'll wear it out and f* up the action and safety of the lock.
if you do things that make the axis-lock fail, then maybe you should pick a a fixed blade or a pry-bar and not a folding knife.
I know at first this was very believable since I owned three MSI's I decided to take the cheapest one I have, which is the molded one, and see if it really would fail when banging on the spine. to my surprise as hard as I tried, I was not able to break the spine, I'm not sure if the knife you had was designed differently than others or what but I can say for a fact you are not breaking the spine on an MSI ... i'd say you have bad luck .
Very interesting and well studied yet ingenious resolution to this problem! I have the same knife but simply with the partial serrations. Looking at yours prior to repair it has about the same gap as mine does. Mine was purchased about a month ago, So early, September roughly. I did the same wrap test as you with what would appear to be about the same force. Yet, no defeat of the lock, so I tried again and still couldn't get the knife to close. The action is smooth and has no lock stick, by the way.
My only thought here is that Microtech may have begun using stronger springs? I believe that would also help with accidental closures.
Great video and I've subbed! 🗡️🔥👊
If I used my pickup as a boat, it'd fail too. Or at least fail by your definition. It's a pocket knife built for longevity and that design is clearly for lifetime wear.
You are absolutely right, I have no idea what I’m talking about. Next time you’re going to spend money on a knife, check the CZcams BEFORE you spend your money on an undercooked product
There are no “accidents”, only “incidents”.
Smart alek
Was your hand ok after that cut ?
Well, You can see the cool scar in my subsequent videos!
...Benchmade Super Freek disengaged on me during a random drop on linoleum, & I immediately thought of those Dutch Bushcraft guys...
I purchased this exact knife & feel quite disappointed. I listened to other CZcamsrs about the durability & feel of the polymer. I really wish I went with g10. I didn’t know the liners were partial & it was so thin & hollow. With the sharp edges of the polymer & the significant lock stick I’m experiencing, I don’t even want this knife anymore.
I have the same one and mine fails too, i know people say why would you wack the spine nobody uses their knife like that but it does come down to safety, is it likely to fail under normal use, no, but you could trip or turn arond and accidently hit the spine and cut yourself wide open, it's probably not likely but you want to have the assurance that if some kind of weird accident does happen while using your knife you know you won't get seriously hurt. Just my opinion
Good point! In fact there was a comment in one of my threads where a gentleman tripped and fell with knife in hand and it closed on his hand and seriously cut him.
this also happened to me. I'm glad there is a fix because I love the knife.
I think the engineers may have designed it to be "worn in" with use, and become more reliable... I don't think they expected someone to smack hard trees with the spine when its fresh out of the box.
I’m a mechanical engineer myself. This knife? Bad engineering. No analysis, no testing and primary focus on the looks and sales numbers are in evidence. There are more reviews like this as recently as this week from @gideontactical
now you need to make a video how to fix ram lock sticking issues
Shouldn't be required that you have manually unfuck your knife's lock. Well done though and hope it will be picked up on by Microtech QA.
😂I’ll hold my breath for that!
Ooooh that sucker really bit ya didn't she? 😂 Not sure if you have any experience with the brand Zero Tolerance but i own several of their folding and fixed blade knives, well their folders are unfortunately known for failing the spine-whack test also... Not that their knives are weak, inferior or not great knives but there is that issue unfortunately...
11:40 Murphy law, you will somehow cut your other hand…
Lmao
People should be very careful doing this because you essentially removes years of use off the knife. When you have a brand new knife you need to break it in before using this procedure, and if used, you need to remove only the slightest amount of material.
Apparently my assumptions were correct as i literally just received a new MSI and opened the pkg not 20mins ago and before i did anything at all with the knife just opening and closing a few times I saw what looked like potential for lock failure which i then searched youtube for "msi lock failure" to see if it was an issue and my assumption or worry was valid and that lead me here! Thanks for posting
Thanks for doing this! I am curious what Microsoft ….I mean Microtech’s response would be to this?
@@CuttingBoardRx no. But I’m going to watch it now. I love your videos and appreciate that you aren’t afraid to say what you are thinking.
I don't believe filing the blade was the right move. Just like a frame lock or linner lock you need the angle of the lock to wegde as is wares down. The ram is the wedge. Filing a small amount off the ram with diamond jewel files at a slightly lower angle fixed the slip for me. This ensures it will have a rock solid lockup even as it wares. The ram will always wedge tight.
Dave, I wish I could see your facial expression when you find out that Microtech has implemented the exact solution - flattening the engagement tang - on all Ram Locs in April of this year.
🫳
🎤
Good for you. Happy your solution was what they wanted.
@davecaraballo they also eliminated the ramp area on the ram head. Much much better engagement!
I wonder if they have re-engineered the RamLok ? I will definitely stay away for now
Stay away
@mitweakz866 I published couple of videos on the fact that they re- designed the back of the blade. Knives made 5/24 and later should be GTG. The mod they did is exactly what I did here
Same size pivot screw on the auto Stitch, and I can't even get mine to break free. I actually broke 3 bits so far trying to break the pivot free on my auto Stitch. I'm about ready to use a damn impact driver on it, but I know if I do, I'm gonna screw up the finish on something, which is not what I want to do. It almost seems like Microtech used a shit ton of red loctite on the pivot. If they did thats a dick move imo. You shouldn't have to worry about breaking bits or screwing up your pivot just to maintain your knife, especially when it costs over $400. Don't have an MSI yet, but I think I may do the same with mine once I do get one.
One side is captured. You have come at it with a lighter to melt the locktite.
@CuttingBoardReviews I did know the Stitch has a captive pivot, but I mean, this is nuts. Is there any chance you know what side is captive and what side is not? I heated the pivot (with a map gas torch because a lighter wasnt heating it up at all) to the point that I wasn't able to touch it, and it still won't budge regardless of what side I try to break free. Im afraid to heat it further because I dont want to screw up the bearings, heat treatment, or weaken anything from excessive heat. I know this is a knife I will not be keeping if I can't do basic maintenance on it, which sucks because I planned on owning all production color variations of the Stitch.
One other observation that i dislike is their use of the style of bladestop theyve used it seems it might be a wear item with it not being a solid pin I imagine over time that the blade will eventually flatten the raised portion causing a flat spot and blade play... My old Chris Reeve small sebenza 21 has a bit of flat spot on the blade stop pin and it is solid and i rotated it so that the flat spot was not making contact with the blade and i no longer had any up&down blade play and if that solid pin can deform then this style that Microtech used certainly could deform much sooner? 🤷♂️ Just an observation that I have already dealt with on my old Sebenza so I'll be keeping my eye on this one and if i notice any deforming then It'll get taken in for warranty repair...
TY for the flag:)
Nice chanel man)
@@CuttingBoardRx Героям Слава!
I see what you're trying to do, and I would also advance the lock a little bit, because more surface area contact between lock surfaces is a good thing for safety... However I think you went too far.
You've advanced the lock to the point where there is no space left for wear over time. Those type of locks NEED a gap, so as the blade wears against the ram, the ram can self adjust and progress forward on it's own.
The ram now has no further forward space, so when you inevitably get lock rock there's not really much you can do. I would have done maximum 50% of what you did.
The ram head is a hardened piece of steel, so wear is not a major concern
@@CuttingBoardRx that doesn't matter. The blade won't be the exact same hardness, and have different material properties.
The ram wears against the blade tang, and any two surfaces that have friction, have wear. You can't avoid it, you can only engineer around it.
I assume the designers accommodated for wear by allowing the lock to self-adjust over time, much like the self-adjusting gap in ALL Benchmade crossbar locks, the self-adjusting tri-ad lock, and demonstrated by prevalence of replacement lock inserts on frame locks,(which are also designed to wear over time via "lockup percentage")
All materials wear, *especially* if they're hardened steel against a less hard blade. Leaving no room for adjustment, means that lock rock is inevitable far sooner than designed.
Again, I agree the lock needed advancing a little bit... But not that far.
@@drbirtlesI think you are right.
I agree.
Well done sir but you need a fixed blade knife hahaha
Funny you say that! I carry BM Hidden Canyon or Puukko in my pocket at least 3 days a week!
I've never understood the purpose of these tests. I get that you want it to lock out as safely as possible. I do...but no one uses a knife that way. If safety is the goal...and I assume the people who test this way have safety as the number 1 priority...I can't for the life of me imagine those same people using a knife in that way. No one would use a knife like that, so why is that a test?
Everyone says that the best knife is the one you have with you. Someone will inevitably use an MSI to process wood because it’s the only knife they have on them. It’s important that they don’t get injured and bleed out in the woods because of a faulty lock. It’s a bit like this… You shouldn’t be dropping your firearm but if you do, firearm companies have made it so the hammer or striker doesn’t disengage if you do. I understand the logic in the personal responsibility argument though.
Agreed. Sadly we can't stop idiots from purchasing this knife.
Great points! Perfect analogy too, I was actually thinking about my older SIG P320 when I was editing this video. Unfortunately there’s no “voluntary upgrade” coming from Microtech…
Many folks buy knives on an emotional level. When they get home, get on CZcams to see how great their chosen knife is, and see my no BS videos, they get mad at me for badmouthing their choice… You should see how many nasty comments my criticism of Medford and Gerber Strongarm has gotten!
@rotorbob do you process wood with the spine of your 4 inch .014 inch stock blade? 🤡
Why whack the spine of your knife? Who is dumb enough to do that in a real-life application? I like that there's a simple solution, but there is no need to abuse your knives.
Wouldn’t you rather own a knife that holds up to any kind of abuse? Isn’t it ridiculous for a company to charge that kind of money for a knife that requires a “simple solution” to not fail after a strike with a 3 oz piece of plywood? And your point helps nobody, it just encourages companies to continue screwing the buyer over. In fact you know you’ve been screwed and are taking it out on me instead of a half-baked “engineer” who designed this lock.
@@CuttingBoardRxyou’re the dummy for trying to use a knife that’s not supposed to be used in a certain way………This is why they have different kinds of knives😑This is nothing but user stupidity and not the company.
As another ethnic Ukrainian knife reviewer, the flag is really appreciated. My MSI doesn’t unlock, but the idea of having that much potential play is giving me cold feet in terms of recommending it FOR NOW. If Microtech starts quality-controlling these better, it’s basically the Manix 2 meets the 940 and is brilliantly designed.
Героям Слава!
The Manix 2’s lock is a caged ball bearing. It’s Spyderco’s ball locks that we see on the D’Allara and the Q-Ball, only done better. Engaging a ball bearing and needing to “wrap around” it is generally a better bet than an Axis-style lock because of area engagement. The reason the Ram-Lok gets around that is because it’s just so large that it will by default engage a larger area (and on the Stitch, where they dialed the lock in better since it’s not entry-level/they’re putting more into QC, I absolutely think they have a game-changer).
Just to let you know you probably just took years off of the life of your knife before it gets lockrock. And completely destroyed your chance of having warentee work done to fix the apparent failing when you use it as a bat. The gap is designed to be there to allow for wear so as its used over time you dont end up with up and down play. As an enginere i thaught you would understand that objects used in the real world that move and rub against each other need to account for wear when built so that they can last longer....
The ram head is heat-treated to at least 55 HRC, so wear is not an issue. The failure is in the geometry. I explain why in the follow up video: Straight Answers to Microtech Amphibian Questions: Ram Lok Fails, Recurve Sharpening, Tip Strength
czcams.com/video/uouaZlInYLI/video.html
Am not worried about the warranty, it’s not going to be a knife I can carry and it is now a part of my video prop collection. Great comment, keep them coming!👍
I got two off the first drop. Sold them both the day they came in. A black and a OD. Both horribly off center, and the actions on both were TERRIBLE.
Won’t touch anything with a ram-lok from MT. This video only further solidified that for me.
Edit: Synthetic is a fancy way of saying cheap plastic. unfortunately, gunk gets in there, and wears that plastic cage down REAL quick if you don’t catch it in time.
@@CuttingBoardRx I agree wholeheartedly. Also, you bring about a an interesting point with the axis vs ram-lok thing. Would be funny if they did that as a, “hey, get out of OTF’s.”
Though I’ll admit, I have a feeling it has more to do with the patent on the axis lock, recently expiring. I’ve seen a recent influx of “new” axis-lock inspired designs, as of late.
Hail azov
@@CuttingBoardRx Героям слава!
Awesome video! Thanks for posting this. Have you had any failures with your MSI since you fixed it?
I have one similar to this that I really like, but it’s prone to failure like yours and I’m thinking about doing this to mine. But if I can’t fix it, ultimately, I’ll probably just sell it.