Why the 5A3 is the best Fender Tweed Deluxe - History, Mods, Vintage Guitars and more
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2019
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Tone Twins TV is home to all thing’s 'guitar tone' related;
vintage guitars, vintage amps, DIY, pedals, boutique gear and more!
In this video Ed and Huw discuss the highly sought-after Fender 5A3 Deluxe, looking at the model’s history, checking out two vintage examples from 1951 with a plethora of fine vintage guitars.
Hear the amps with some choice vintage Fender, Gibson and Gretsch guitars and hear the effect that a few simple mods and tone tweaks can have on the tone.
In this episode:
1951 5A3 Fender Deluxe amp
1951 5A3 Fender Deluxe amp
1956 Gibson ES225TD
1957 Fender Stratocaster Refin gold
1962 Gibson ES330TDC
1963 Fender Stratocaster
1960 Gretsch Anniversary converted to 6120
2015 Gibson CC 15 Les Paul with vintage 1960 PAF pickups
54 Ash bodied Maple neck Replica Strat with Shed pickups
Amp audio recorded with Beyerdynamic M160 and Coles 4038 mics into a Telefunken/Siemens V72 into UA Apollo Quad into Logic - no Compression or EQ.
Room audio recorded with a Neumann CMV563 into Telefunken/Siemens V72 into UA Apollo Quad into Logic.
Key timings:
0:39 Intro
1:45 The 5A3 Deluxe
3:43 50s style Gretsch picking
5:50 Cabinets & tweed -
8:56 Differences between the 5A3 and 5E3
11:05 Tubes and circuit specifics
13:30 Instrument input issues
14:40 Microphone input
15:50 Phase inverter
18:05 Stock 5A3 demo track
20:26 Modding overview
21:51 Jensen speaker analysis
24:35 Control interaction
26:00 Modification demonstration
27:50 5A3 versus 5E3
32:16 5A3 rock out
34:50 Outro
We hope you enjoy this video. Please subscribe to our channel.
Diolch (Thanks!)
Ed and Huw - Tone Twins
The "Magic" tones that no profiler will ever emulate, 100% organic, a beautiful thing.
There are channels that have been running for years with tens of thousands of subscribers that cannot produce a video with such panache, skill and knowledge as this, your first outing. What an incredible start! I have watched through three times already, thrilled by the tones from these wonderful old amps. Obviously the mods are intended to keep these workhorses in full gigging condition, better that than gathering dust behind glass. I’m blown away by the whole concept and loved every minute. Needless to say I will be delighted when more content arrives. Could we have another ‘That Pedal Show’ on our hands? Well done.
Thanks for your kind comments, it's much appreciated. We have loads more content lined up so stay tuned...
Absolutely agree, superbly pro production
Finally a tweed amp video that includes some playing similar to what you’d hear out of these amps when they were actually first released. Nice to hear some beautiful clean tones. Great, informative, video.
Really excellent video; informative, educational & entertaining - I look forward to watching more, thank you! 🙂
I love videos like this where you can hear the gear, but find out information about the facts and mods that are sometimes hard to find. Well done guys, can’t wait for the next instalment.
Fantastic video guys! Very much looking forward to more 🙂
Thanks Chris really appreciate it
Amazing channel, please do more videos. Would love to see the entire collection between the two of you!
I found the perfect channel. Now you guys just need to upload more often and showcase more amps. More tweeds!
Awesome video. Love the sounds. Having just finished building a ‘59 15 watt 5E3 amp from stewMac I am blown away at the clarity of that amp. The beginning and ending jam was just heavenly to me!!
Amazing! Very educational and fun to watch
Great stuff fellas ⚡️⚡️
Great show!!!
I am late to finding this video! Well done! I love my 5A3, and it has served me well for many gigs. I use it in a cover band I am in. We have to play quietly and this amp is perfect. I find that I am very much attached to the P12R and have re-coned it. Thanks so much for the comparison to the 5E3. I don't see any advantage to owning one over the the 5A3, sonically and cosmetically. I had no idea about the channel mod. Thanks for that!
Fantastic video! Thanks for making this. The original Jensen speaker sounds beautiful!
Thanks Charles. We like the Jensen too, but more for low volume and recording applications. Push it too hard and it doesn't break up in a nice way, and that limits the otherwise impressive volume and gain range of the 5A3. But we can certainly understand why some tweed fans would choose to retain the original Jensens.
Thanks for doing the work on the video. Great job. I own a 5e3 build. Well really a rebuild of someone's dangerous build. Any way I learned quite a lot about the 5e3. I thought I liked the tweeds when first ever heard one in person when I was a young man, 50's tweed with a 50' s strat. I love a lot of vintage gears and culture. I guess I like the good old days...
They are both awesome amps!
Your channel is amazing!
Many thanks.
Thank you for a great video guys. I loved the sound of both amps, and especially appreciated the last part, when you were jamming together, after you had done the modification of both of the 5A3 amps. It obviously gave them a little more clean head room, and they still broke up nicely. I can see why Don Felder, and others would have benefited by using these amps for their recording sessions. I did read somewhere, that all Don Felder used, in that great solo in Hotel California, was his 59 Les Paul, straight into the 5A3 Deluxe, and nothing else. As far as the comparison between the 5E3 and the 5A3, is concerned though, to my ears, even after the modification, I did prefer the clean sound of the 5E3. Horses for courses I guess!
It would be interesting to see the schematic of the single guitar mod and how you would ground the unused channel. Great video, very informative.
Gents, just discovered your channel. Thank you.
Our pleasure!
Great start! would like to have heard the 5E3 with a blue as well during the comparisons.
Thanks John and you make a fair point. Keep tuned in because we can guarantee you'll get to hear exactly that and a lot more Deluxe amps of all shades too.
Thanks for your support! We have a Deluxe amp shootout amounts other videos in the pipeline so plenty of 5E3 with Blue clips on the way. Thanks
That 330 at 18:45 sounded flipping gorgeous.
You are fairly accurate with the model numbers with circuit numbers beginning with 5 from the 50's. Keep in mind there are 5a3's that were made in the late 40's 48-49. I have two of them. Still love the lower wattage early ones.
Super nice video! Thank you!
Is there a hand drawn layout somewhere that would help me understand the V front input mod? It was difficult to see in the video. Thanks again gents!
Thanx lads, great playing and OCD after me own heart...
So did you retain the mods?
Thanks Jonny
Huw's 5A3 will be featuring in a forthcoming episode. The Celestion Blue has been retained but the inputs have been re-tweaked.
Love my tweeds.
Absolutely love your videos, always fantastic anytime one shows up! If you have the time I had a quick question regarding a Tweed Twin RI (LP) of mine. It has Celestion Gold speakers in it and a few tweaks/upgrades however it feels a bit stiff. It could be the new speakers I put in (they certainly need to be broken in and I hear Golds can take awhile to do so), but I was wondering if that's the nature of the circuit? Any opinions/recommendations? You certainly have quite a breadth of knowledge on these amps and a fantastic collection. Cheers and thank you for putting out these wonderful videos!
Hi KG, thanks for your question, hopefully we can help.
Yes we have found that most new speakers are a bit stiff out of the box, the simple answer is the longer you play them at a good volume the better we find them sounding. Often people say 50+ hours but we haven't tested it scientifically, rather we just gig/use our amps as much as possible to break the speakers in.
When you say your's is feeling bit stiff, is this at a decent volume (4 and up on the dial) or at lower house volume? Do you use the amp loud for gigs etc or at home at low volume?
The reason we as is that some hopefully helpful solutions may change for each scenario.
If its stiff at louder volume then we'd recommend having a good tech check the bias of the output valves, they are often set too cool from the factory to preserve component life, we like ours a bit hotter but as always the responsibility is with you and your qualified tech.
We have also had good results swapping the valves to NOS, especially the output valves and the rectifier, these do have a big impact on feelings of stiffness.
If you are running the amp mainly at low home volume then the above advice still stands, but may have less noticeable effect on the low volume feel and response.
The higher powered Tweed circuits do really need to be turned up a bit to get everything singing at its best. If you have the issue of stiffness at low volume then we'd recommend trying:
1) an attenuator (doesn't have to be an expensive one. Huw in fact wrote a "build your own article" for Guitar magazine a few years back guitar.com/guides/diy-workshop/diy-workshop-build-your-own-attenuator/
There are many fantastic ones out there, ED is particularly fond of the UAD OX, Fryette Powerstation and Badcat Unleash.
2) an overdrive or clean boost pedal set lower than unity in front of the amp can actually sound great and lower the overall volume but still keep the big amp feel
3) a good compressor pedal before the amp at low volume can give some cranked amp squishy feel
4) good old fashioned poor mans attenuator i.e. turn the amp around to face the wall away from you, put a guitar case in front of it to block some volume and then turn the amp up louder than you had it before to get more dynamics with somewhat reduced volume
Hope these tips can be of some use to you and others
Thanks
Have you ever tried greenbacks in these amps? It would be really cool to see a speaker shoot out in these amps. Purists say what they will about modding vintage gear but that opening jam was epically marshallesq and I would rock that tone in a heartbeat
Bore da fellas 👍
I only found your channel a few days ago and have more or less watched all of your videos, which were very enjoyable.
I've gotta love Wales, I've been many many times, I have family up on the mid west coast near Aberaeron, plus you've got to love the Welsh bands like Stereophonics & S.F.A. ok 😎✌
Thanks Jammy. Glad you've enjoyed them. Aberaeron is one of our favourite towns.
Way cool! I would love to have had any amp under G.E Smith’s fingers! Killer tone coming out of both of you. Would love to hear your take on that es-225? Have looked at maybe picking up a 330 or casino and wondered if it checks those boxes at all? Sweet!
Love the 50’s Gibson P-90’s. I have a late 40’s es-125 but I imagine that 225 is a different beast with that extra pickup. That as a thin body may do the trick.
We have 2 ES330s at our disposal - the cherry 62 in the video and a recently acquired sunburst 64. The ES225 is a very different beast. A solid block of maple glued to the top gives it more sustain and makes it closer to a semi solid in tone. And of course, the earlier 50s P90s sound different to the 60s ones.
Huws a great dude
True the nature or character of the drive between a cathodyne vs a paraphase phase inverter is a bit different. But as for a lack of gain overall you are not taking into account that in the 5E3 you have an extra gain stage. So, in the 5A3 you have one gain stage followed by a paraphase which drives the power valves like a gain stage. The 5E3 has a first gain stage followed by a second gain stage followed by a unity gain phase inverter so in both cases there is a net of two preamp gain stages.
Great information on tweed deluxes, nice collection of guitars. Didnt sound like you had that 5e3 dialed to it sweet spot, it sounded dark and weak. A 5e3 cranked into distortion could eat that 5a3 for lunch ! Great video, like to see more.
Excellent! Please clarify for me your circuit modification, as I cannot find a layout diagram for that model: Are you routing the Mic input into the instrument circuit (and vice versa) so that when you plug into the Mic input you get the hotter gain with the bright (instrument) channel tone circuit?
That's it exactly Gary. It's just a case of swapping the two grid connections on the first tube.
Question? Are you using the mic or instrument jack after you make the input modification? Very well Done Gents! Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to produce such a superb and informative video!!
The mic jack socket with the instrument volume - if that makes sense. Thanks for your kind comment and glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you!! That makes perfect sense to me!! No grid resistor; but through the bright side of the tone stack!! Thanks for the follow up! Much appreciated!
Really enjoyed this video. I too have 5A3 with the original undamaged speaker. I also have a copper top 1963 Vox ac 30 top boost and A 1963 Fender Princeton Reverb. What speaker would you recommend for the most authentic sound of the Jensen Alnico? Thank and great video!
The best Jensen we've heard is a vintage P12Q. Great alnico Jensen tone with higher power handling.
Hi Tone Twin Guys! Great vid! I have an original 5A3 with the original but "re-coned" Jensen speaker of my own and am planning to do the input mod. At 26:30 you are explaining the mod. but do you also have the schematics for it? Thanks A.
We don't, but it is simply a case of swapping the two grid wires over on tube 1. Just as we show you in the closeup shot. Nothing more to it but please be safe 'cos these things are dangerous!
We like ours 5A3 with serial number 4430 ✌️
Can the input mod be done in a 5C3 with 6SC7s? Thanks for the great, informative video!!!
Yes Christian, you can do the same mod. But the 5C3 also has negative feedback from the speaker. If you want quicker overdrive, try disconnecting the feedback too. Or maybe try it first.
@@tonetwinstv2863 thanks, looking at the schematics, the A3 and C3 look very similar
Fyi Lads I saw a very entertaining interview with Don Felder where he mentioned his amps (the old tweed he used with the eagles) get an annual visit to Mr Dumble's house (with a case of beer) for a tune-up and a day long BS session...
Wonderful demo, thanks! The Line 6 Pods try to recreate the 5a3 sound with their "Small Tweed" amp emulation. I'm not sure whether it's accurate, but their version of the 5a3 sound is my all-time favourite tone, whether or not you'd describe it as an amp or effect. I even bought a Lovepedal Les Lius, which apparently does the same thing, to try and recreate it. Think I may need to actually sell my soul for an original 5a3. Or just ask Line 6 to make me a full amp with their "Small Tweed" tone. Sigh. Life is so haaard! :P
I still enjoy using my Line 6 POD 2 Jim. Didn't know they based their small tweed model on a 5A3 - H
@@tonetwinstv2863 I’ve been mildly obsessed with the 5a3 ever since. There seems to be a lot surfacing on eBay now. Wondering if Fender will do an official reissue. HNY!
Love the Tweed Deluxes. Have two 5a3's, 1 5d3 and 1 5e3. I prefer the 5a3s best, 5d3 2nd best and the 5e3 last. Just me. They all sound different.
HI Guys and thanks for the info. I'm now the proud owner of 51 with all the og caps. Just wanted to know if you recommend any replacement caps should one decease? Also when you do the v-front-mod wire swap, is the little switch thing still in play? Cheers
We have Mallory 150s in both our 5A3s. If an original cap measures leaky - and they invariably do - I put them in the over at a temperature that's just sufficient to melt the way. The old paper and foil will then push out of the cardboard tube, and I put the 150s inside the tube, re-seal with wax and reinstall. The restored amps look totally original but sound much better. Regarding the V-Front mod, there is no switch. I simply swap over the two grid wires on the first tube.
@@tonetwinstv2863 Great info! Thankayoo! Don't know if it's related but I just tried a big magnet celestion speaker and one of the 6sl7 got squealy microphonic, any tubes you would recommend, NOS or these new tung-sols?
@@theblazevellutocollection The best 6SL7 equivalents we've tried are the Mullard ECC35. The best tone and totally non microphonic.
Wow! I have always thought that my Tweed 5E3 is the best guitar amp I have found. Maybe it still is, but I want to get a 5A3....clearly sounds fuller, more robust, especially overdriven.
All a matter of taste
Which two pins is that on the 6sc7 socket? Thanks
Try looking up a tube socket diagram and figure out which pins correspond to the two grids. With respect, the fact that you feel the need to ask and you have asked about 6SC7s rather than the 6SL7s that are in these amps suggest you might be better advised to ask your tech to do the mod for you. Stay safe please.
👍
5E3 is king.
with the comparison to the 5e3 , the volume wasn't matched which I feel would make a diff ... good vid tho .. but everyone knows the 5e3 circuit is the holy grail of everything tweed ..
Is there a noticeable difference between 5A3 and 5B3 models? I can not find a definite answer on this, everyone seems to lump them together.
.. pulled up the schematics, I can see slightly different values on some transistors at the input and ground. Just curious if anyone has played them back to back.. But I do also understand that you could have 2 identical 5A3's and they'd sound different too!
@@rennpart It is confusing Aaron and we're not sure we can offer any insights. Looking at the circuits we've found, they appear identical but according to some, the 5B3 had the wide panel cabinet rather than the TV front. No transistors in either amp - but we're assuming you meant resistors and it was just a typo ;)
@@tonetwinstv2863 Thanks, finally found a nice 1950 5A3 from a reseller in California. The insides are all original down to the 2 prong cord, however I believe the P12Q is from 1954 according to the date but I believe the choke (or maybe output transformer?) is mounted to the speaker. It sounds amazing and was worth the wait to find a nice one.
.. I believe the wire swap mod shown @26:40 is incorrect, at least on my amp all it does is switch the volume pots for the inputs.
Are y'all literally sitting on vintage Tweed amplifiers? Are they yours? I'm not judgin, but holy shit
Looks like a couple 5E3's
I prefer the Gretsch part of the video, I have always believed an early 60's Vox AC30 covering is much more comfortable to sit on than 50's tweed... The roughness/grippy-ness of 50's tweed is much better for standing on when changing light bulbs and such.
@@timothyarnold6731 lol
A very informative video, but a better question is why do guitar and amplifier enthusiasts think its a good idea to sit on 70 year old amps worth thousands?
I mention this because a few years ago at a guitar show in Nashville, one dealer had an assortment of Fender tweed amps at his display - all 50's models ranging from $1500 for a tweed Champ all the way to a gorgeous tweed bandmaster for $10,000. He was a large boomer fellow and had no reservation about plopping his big ass on an amp he expected me to pay 10 grand for.
Nonetheless, if Ed and Huw own these amps and want to sit on them it's totally their decision. I do enjoy Huw's articles in the UK guitar mags and would recommend them to all.
Hi Ohio. TBH we just needed something to sit on so we could both fit in the shot. Then again, We've always sat on our amps. Never thought twice about it. As seats go, they're not the most comfortable - unless it's one of those Kustom amps with the padded leatherette. They're very nice to sit on.
Thanks for the kind comments on Huw's day job.
Can't hurt those amps
funny.. I am not a big fan of the celestion blue in the 5e3.. The lack of tonestack gives the amp a lot of mids, which the celestion has in spades. leaves a boxy midrange sound,, . I prefer something with a built in smiley face curve.. like a jensen p12Q (reissue),, It has bass (99dB at 110Hz),, a large scoop in the midrange centered around 425Hz.. a bit less of the 900Hz midrange of the Celestion,,
The celestion type speaker fits nicely in VOC AC30 top boost tonestack which scoop the midrange..
Good,mic placed *away* from the amp closer to the sound in the room.
Not necessarily.
@@tonetwinstv2863 My response was both a compliment and factual because the increased volume of close miking by default lowers the ambient spl with respect to direct sound.
See how easy led drum entro can be had. Blame the blimps
I think the 5E3 sounded the best.
Fair enough ;)
Tidy
def the 5A. is fat and great sounding.
Very well done.
But i have to say that it hurts badly that you sit on that fragile amps...
No it doesn't. They're surprisingly comfortable ;)
Learn not to whammy outa tune!
We checked to see some examples of your dazzling whammy technique, but it appears you haven't posted any videos. Be sure to let us know when you do and many thanks ;)