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Comparing Memories with Aphantasia (blind mind's eye)
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 24. 04. 2020
- Hey, everyone! I finally dragged my husband into a video đ€Ł. Today, we're comparing our memories (mine with aphantasia/blind mind's eye, and his with visualizations) and talking about how we organize/process them differently.
If there are other topics you think it would be helpful to discuss in this format, please let me know!
Hope you all are well!
You and your husband are so cute! Yes, this was very interesting to hear the two of you discuss your different experiences. Also, yes I totally pictured a guy as your husband before this when you would talk about him, but I didn't have a very clear image of him. Now that I've seen him, his actual image would replace that made up one in my mind.
Aw, thanks!
Your husband looks so freaked out by the camera bless him đđž
đ Yeah, he was pretty nervous about it. I was so happy he agreed to do it, though. I think it was a cool perspective.
He's scared about realizing he married a robot. Jkjk
@@cooliipie đ€Ł Quite possibly.
@@quietmindinside4808 He looks very alarmed and suspicious.
He is thinking, "Wait, which woman was this again? And what is she talking about?"
i just wanna say youre so vibrant and lovely i hope youll make other types of youtube videos after this topic. not that ill ever be tired of this topic,its amazing to me...đ
your husband is also lovely ,you suit and compliment eachother:)
Thanks so much!
@@quietmindinside4808 Who knows why the camera likes you, but it does! I wonder if your clear thinking and speaking is related to the aphantasia? I could see it becoming a priority if you can't easily "visualize" things, so you have to get good at communicating with the first try.
@@rpfree I'm beginning to think the people with aphantasia may be more advanced than those of us who do envision things and do have an inner monologue. Generally they seem very sharp and perceptive.
I'm thinking aphantasia might be an ability, so to speak, rather than a disability. I mean, is there something they cannot do in the real world -- or is it only things they can't do in the inner world? Because people are successful or not successful in the outside world, not in some inner space.
When I "picture" someone I've never seen I just have to work with facts: skin tone, eye color, hair color, facial hair, etc. It's a strange feeling having someone not look like what you weren't imagining and still being surprised that you were wrong lmao
Oh, that's really interesting! I never imagine what people may look like if I can't see them. I can tell basic stuff, like older or younger, where they're from, etc. But I don't try to think of a face. However, sometimes I can still be surprised. Like if I meet someone who had a deep voice on the phone, and they're really tiny, something incongruous like that. But really that's all. It doesn't feel strange, though. Just a second of surprise, and then I don't really think of it again.
@@quietmindinside4808 yh so even tho I'm not generating an image I'd still say I have a basic concept of a few default humans that I expect everyone to look like. Most people don't fit...
I always thought my "lock and key" didn't work on my brain, retrieving faces to names. I was so frustrated. But eventually just accepted it. So relieved I have an idea why it didn't work. When I discovered I have aphantasia, so many emotions good and bad. Like it's so unfair etc etc. But I had an epifany, when I go to sleep, I rest in my "black", I look into it and find peace. I never ever thought to do that. I feel better about it now, been two weeks since I found out. Crazy right.
You can clearly see in his face with his eye movements and looking up and sideways, heâs using his imagination and recalling things images lol or trying to using images
Her husband looks upward when he speaks. He is clearly using his mindâs eye.
that's not what aphanasia is, it's the complete inability to see what you're visualizing, I've been asking around and people actually can see things when try to imagine things (I can't, I can't imagine anything outside of stringing together concepts, words, ideas, and facts)
@@faymann9834 that's not how that works....
@@Mgl1206 For me it's the opposite, my mind thinks visually, sometimes that's why I can't put my thought process into words.
So I have just realized about 4 hours ago that Aphantasia is a thing and I have been fervently researching it ever since. I think I have some different coping mechanisms than you do, but I identify with so much of what you have been talking about in your videos. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your talks. you are giving me a lot of things to thing about in both the similarities and the contrasts. I'm sure I will have questions in the future but for now I'm still just processing this discovery. keep making videos, it seems that others appreciate them as much as I do.
Thanks so much! I really love hearing that people find them helpful.
I'm loving this channel. I think the MSDos analogy was really good for me to visualise (ha) what your memories are like. And I think there's a clear advantage to that, when you say that you can clearly recall any memory information you want, since it's all data. With me, it's definitely not like that. Absolutely all my memories are in the form of moving images and sounds, and once they fade away, it's really hard to recover them consciously. I have a handful of very vivid old memories, but most things just end up fading away, unless someone else talks about them to me, and sometimes not even then. Also about imagining things while someone else is talking, oh my god, how I wish I could turn that off. It's impossible, and sometimes I have to make such an effort to concentrate on what the person is saying, otherwise I just get lost in the movie being created in my mind.
Wow, that's really interesting! I feel bad because I know I've gotten irritated at my husband in the past for not remembering something, and I just didn't know his memory storage was so different from mine! It's so weird to me because I can remember all these stupid mundane things, like studying in my room in high school or sitting at the lunch table at school, but I can't see any of it. It's just like a list of tasks I've completed. So bizarre.
It's kind of a curse to have to always focus on a conversation, too. Sometimes people talk to me about ridiculous things and I'm forced to listen while trying my best not to roll my eyes the whole time đ€Ł. This eccentric guy who is often in the park by my house has lots of ideas about how the Queen of England is controlling the world, and I've been forced to listen to them all đ€Ł.
@@quietmindinside4808 I was talking about that to somebody at work today and he says "well that's impossible. You have to be able to visualize it" and I said "no, man. I can describe properties of the equipment we handle [I work in a warehouse right now holding medical equipment] but when I do that I'm not seeing anything in my head. There's no image whatsoever. Just a list of properties, an abstract description."
It never occurred to me that people would have trouble differentiating similar memories. I just automatically know which memory is which. Probably because I see everything playing out in my mind. And yes, when you talked about your husband I did picture someone, but I had no specific details, although I was very aware that he doesnât look the way I imagined. Yet another great video!!
Thanks!
Thank you both! Such a cute couple. â€ïž
My older memories definitely degrade over time; takes longer to fall apart if it's one I pull up often. I did imagine your husband, but now that I see him, I can't remember how I had thought he looked. His reality replaced my assumptions.
Fun thing I can do: I can tell you exactly where stuff is. My kid can't find the ketchup in the fridge. I can tell him from the living room, "It's in the fridge, in the door, to the left of the Mayo on the second shelf, near the middle." Unless my husband has been in there moving stuff around, I'll be spot on.
Thanks so much!
Interestingly, I'm the one that knows where everything is in our home! My husband can never find anything đ.
I discovered I have aphantasia about 2 years ago. I'm just now discovering your channel and am sad to see that you only did a handful of videos. Thanks for those...much appreciated.
What a lovely couple with great communication!
Thank you!
I love your videos and your voice. Love watching you! Your husband is a hunk! I found your channel a couple of weeks after you posted your first video. Right after I had first learned about aphantasia. I really enjoy your explanations. Like others, I really enjoy this topic. It's so interesting. But I would welcome videos on other things from you as well. You are so real and I love how your content seems very unrehearsed yet you speak so well off the cuff. I feel like I have used the word love way too many times in this comment. Ha! Thank you for sharing!
Aw, thanks! That's so nice! I really appreciate the kind words.
My husband hates when I ask him questions about his visualization skills lol
When I was asking him what he sees when he closes his eyes, he said static like tv static ⊠so in the process of discovering my rare brain disorder, I discovered his even rarer brain disorder called visual snow syndrome. đ đ we are all so unique.
I've had visual snow for 16 yrs since about 2 weeks after my first baby. I woke up from a nap durring the day in a dark room and boom it was fuzzy visual snow, I've seen it every day since, usually only when it's dark, but sometimes it's bad and I can see it over patterned surfaces
Beside your husband being a little bit of a cough ass**le cough cough
On a bit of a binge, and so it's nice to see you able to laugh and have fun with your differences after seeing your distress in the first video. I know this was over a year ago, but I'm intrigued by your questions. Unless someone has been described, I usually form a kind of amorphous image of a person, but for some reason I am much more specific about places. For instance, if I'm going to a new city or other destination, as I do my travel research, I form a very specific image of what I think it is like. Then after I've been there, I have to almost consciously replace the made-up image with reality. It's kind of weird and not altogether pleasant to be completely off sometimes â€ïž.
Wow! That's really interesting! So, if you look at a bunch of pictures online before you go, and everything looks one way, but when you get there it looks different, does it affect how you enjoy your trip? I was just thinking like maybe disappointment could be greater if you had a clear picture of what it should be.
@@quietmindinside4808 Usually I don't think too much about my original expectations when I'm actually there. It's only later when I think about it, I realize that I have a kind of false "memory" that I have to wipe out. I think it could lead to disappointment, but usually reality isn't worse, just different. đ
Thank you for making these videos. They have helped me describe and discover the way I think and the way others think.
I am pretty much the same, I see absolutely nothing in my minds eye, I always thought people just used the words "visualise" or "Imagine" as synonyms for think about hahaha.
But I do have a really good memory and it sounds similar to yours. The way I explain it to my friends is like a filing cabinet. If you ask for a memory I just go to that part of the cabinet and retrieve the information, and yeah my memories from primary school, high school are just as strong as what I did yesterday.
Nice to see you both :)! I would like to tell you how I imagined him before - but I can't :D Once, I've seen someone I can't tell what I imagined before. The brain is so strange. I have a question: When you sing along to a song you like, do you just know the text? Or is it possible for you to fullfill the sentence of a catchy rhyme?
Wow! That's super interesting!
The singing is interesting because I swear when I sing, I'm singing the correct melody, but my husband swears I'm always wrong. He makes fun of me all the time because he can't ever figure out what I'm singing until I get a few lines in đ€Ł. I can hear music in my head, though. It's the only thing I get in there. But it's only things exactly as I've heard them. I can't manipulate the sounds at all.
I could listen to you guys discuss your experiences and thoughts related to this endlessly. Seriously, you guys could do a podcast. Just turn the camera or mic on and talk about the smallest things. It is fascinating!
I think this video was more helpful than any I've seen until now, where they just plan the whole video and speak generally about aphantasia, for example, at 15:42 the fact that you don't get memories when seeing places/things in my opinion is probably related to the fact that people with aphantasia tend to get over things more easily (which is what they said in another video).
Also, I can only process one thing at a time too, so I can't listen to someone while doing something unrelated, or stuff like that.
Apart from his Aussie accent, as soon as he said "so I don't look like a Muppet" it confirmed to me where he was from đ€Ł
Thank you for this! Iâve learned so much from your videos and find it all so fascinating! Itâs so interesting how differently minds work.
I think everyone that can create mental pictures does create a basic image of how they think someone will look just by hearing characteristics and things like that about them. Knowing what your husband looks like, I can't remember what the general image if him was that I created, because like you said about that person's comments I was visualizing you and him having a conversation about all this stuff. I also really liked how you described how your memories are stored because that was kind of how I thought it would be. I thought it might be like an index or something like that, but I like the old computer reference better. Another cool video. I learn so much evey video you put out.
Thanks so much!
I can relate to your husband đ. I often hear something that a person says and my mind will go off on a whole tangent, and then I'll realize that I have been ignoring the person I'm listening to and didn't hear the last few things that they said.
đ€Ł I'll let him know he's not alone!
Very interesting. Thanks!
You're welcome!
This sounds so alien, I am sorry to say this but I remember things by emotional connection. This is what makes me remember things from a kid to now like they just happened, don't ask me what meals I had in last 3 days cos I could not tell you. Must be strange to remember every moment as the same "just data". Hope that's a wrong notion only cos as I stated before: Alien to me.
Loving this subject and how fascinating people like you are though. By the way I can't remember peoples names at all.
I loved this video! To answer your question at the end, I did have a mental picture of your husband when you talked about him before and it has definitely been replaced with the actual image of him now! The thing for me is, now that I know what he looks like, I can now longer remember that previous image even though it was perfectly clear to me before I saw him in this video! This is also what happens to me when I read a book and then see a film adaption of it: I will have images of the characters in my mind and they will be replaced by the actors as the characters in the film and I wonât remember my previous image.
Ah, I was going to ask that next, about the movie thing! That's really interesting. So everyone pretty much sees Daniel Radcliffe when they read Harry Potter now, huh? Crazy! Seems if you were an actor there would be a lot of extra pressure because you know you're going to be in everyone's minds forever!
But why do so many people complain when movies weren't what they expected? How do they remember their version after they've seen the movie? đ€
I just had another thought! What about actors in all these superhero movies? How do you reconcile the picture of the actor in your mind with the image in front of you in a comic book? Which image would you remember if you thought of the character later?
Quiet Mind Inside - another interesting, video, thanks!
*I pictured your husband in my mind when you mentioned him previously. I didnât ponder it, just a generic image popped in, kind of blobby on the finer details but I do remember: blonde hair, about 6âtall, muscular, like a carpenter, with white v-neck t-shirt. Not sure why. I think my brain just looked at you and your physical features, your use of language and what you said & how you said it & then made some super generic jump to the physical type it thought you would marry. I didnât try to imagine him, the image just evolved in the background (behind my head?), then just hung there, like a picture on a wall. Now that Iâve seen him, his ârealâ life image will replace that, but I will be able to remember my first âimpressionâ for a while, Iâm sure. Then that will be gone (fade) and, after the last time I remember your husbands image, it will fade in a short time. The older I get, the more impossible it seems to be to recall memories, so obviously mine all fade over time. Only memories with very strong emotion remain clear, but even some of those fade faster than others.
*I think actors donât feel that kind of pressure because they WANT to be in peopleâs minds forever, and that is one way to do it. It is very ego-based, I think. If people werenât going to remember their performance, why do it? Thatâs what Iâd think. But I donât have a performance bug. *How does it feel to you to know that you will be âinâ other peopleâs minds in a visual way? It must seem strange!
*Iâm curious, how do you remember live performances. For instance, if you attended a segmented act play, or an opera, or something like a stand-up comedy show with multiple performers? Maybe you just remember the people, but not in order or not any of their scene lines or jokes?
*If you watch a tv series, can you keep up with the story-line in-between episodes, or do you need to refresh what the content of the previous episode before seeing the new one?
*Have you ever experienced deja vu?
*When I read a book I am creating the entire visual âuniverseâ of that story in my head, yes, like a movie. I imagine every detail written and then fill in the blanks with my brain. Not on purpose, again, but the pictures just flow along with the words. I get aggravated if i get interrupted when Iâm reading an exceptionally descriptive story. I will usually go back and re-read a bit to get the story âredrawnâ when I go back to reading. If itâs a REALLY good story that I can identify with in some way, I may even get the feeling of immersion in the story, like Iâm physically feeling and living out the story through the main character or other characters. I am a bit of an empath, and perhaps it is this that makes my imagination so great. I can really feel what each character is going through and can easily create worlds for them in my mind.
*How do you feel about spirituality and visualization techniques? Iâm wondering if itâs possible to understand it from your perspective. Perhaps there is some amazing form of spirituality that appeals to you?
Itâs all so very interesting! Thanks for your responses. Sorry so many questions. Maybe youâve already answered some of this, so Iâll go check your other videos now! Peace đ
@@RokiMowntinHi Very interesting how you imagined my husband! Most people forgot their imagined version right away, so it's really cool to hear the difference!
I have to say, the live performance question is one of the best I've gotten! I hadn't really thought of it at all. Honestly, it depends on the type of performance. I mention in one of my videos somewhere that I basically remember actions. I can remember lines or quotes, but I need a lot of repetition to do that. So, I could repeat lots of lines from 'The Office' because I've watched it countless times, but if I saw a comedy show, I probably wouldn't remember any. I could tell you about the joke I found funny, but I would suck at retelling it because I'd just know the main idea.
I've been to a few operas and musicals, and I can remember the plots very well, but that's about it. If you asked me who said what or who wore which costume, I would have no idea. I think I could do the order of events pretty well, but I might get a few things wrong.
However, orchestral performances I have absolutely no recollection of at all! I think this is so interesting because I haven't thought of it before. I guess it makes sense since I recall actions, and a symphony doesn't normally get up and do anything except play their instruments. Honestly, I'm wracking my brain, and the only concert I'm getting a flash of is this one time when our college orchestra did something from Star Wars. I don't remember if it was all Star Wars songs or just one. I can't hear them in my head or remember the program, but I remember the conductor putting on a pair of Yoda ears before he started the song đ. That's the only reason I remember it. But I can't tell you where the concert was played or any of the people in the orchestra or even the time of year đ€·ââïž.
I don't have issues keeping up with stories in a TV series. I might forget something if I wasn't paying attention to it, but I don't think it's much different from anyone else. (My husband was actually the one who always needed the recap before Game of Thrones đ. Perhaps I'm better with the plot because I completely disregard things like scenery or costumes đ€·ââïž) I'm actually really good at picking up on changes to things even though I can't see them in my head. Just as an example, I was watching Steven Colbert, and I totally noticed that he had combed his hair differently in one episode before he said anything or before my husband noticed. I just knew he looked "off". I'm wondering now if you guys have harder times with cast changes than I do. If they switch an actor in a show, does it bother you for a while or can you just go with it? It never really affects me at all.
I do experience deja vu! No images or sounds, just feelings. Is that the same?
I don't like to get too much into spirituality here because I'm super conscious of not wanting to offend anyone, but I will just say that I personally do not have strong spiritual feelings.
Quiet Mind Inside - omg, I just *canât* take an actor switch in a show. Or even in movie sequels, etc.! (I have difficulty accepting the different âJames bondâs... there can be only ONE!!đ I find it jarring and can never accept the new version as the ârealâ so-and-so. Maybe some of the others who forget their original impression find it easier?
My deja vu is usually a feeling, then an understanding, if you will, of the sensation of âitâs about to happen againâ though Iâm in a situation I Know I have never been in before. The next thing is me, internally, narrating what is about to happen, usually within 6 seconds of it happening. The best example might be having two screens playing the same movie, but one is six seconds ahead of the other, but i can watch and listen to both of them, living in the delayed timeline, for just about one minute. Itâs like that, for me. Afterwards, I feel a strange sensation of knowing... like an internal nodding of acknowledgement of the deja vu event. I was curious how a different or lack of internal dialogue might affect this experience.
Totally understand about not going into the spiritual side of things. Nobodyâs bizness! đ
Yep. Oh my god. Same same same. My techniques for remember are the same.thisbis hilarious. Good work đ
You guys are so cute! I hope you do more videos discussing with your husband, itâs super interesting hearing how you compare memories. I have so many questions!!
Thanks so much! I'm trying to think of something that would be interesting for us to talk about đ
@@quietmindinside4808Could you maybe talk about a movie or series you both like and compare what you like about them, how you recall them, etc?
@@SailingWitStrawHats That's a good idea. Our tastes are really different, so I'll have to think of something we both liked đ.
Someone I know has the same ârandom accessâ to conversations, rather than actions.
Does your husband have a South African background? I'm picking up accent details that feel familiar. Although, I'm picking up Aussie as well.
5:25 - Oh, shit! He just said you went for the rugby! BOOM! HAHAHAHA
Really enjoyed this conversation would love to see more, you two are a very cute couple. Yes the picture of your husband I created would automatically be replaced with the real person. I find this subject fascinating, I'm glad you started this channel. đ
Thanks so much!
Someone else said that they replaced the imagined picture of my husband, and now they can't remember their made up version anymore. Is that the same for you? I think that's super interesting!
Yes the same thing happens to me
Oh and people have always told me Iâm such a good listener.
My mind, in the past, has wandered off and there was a constant chatter in my head but with diet change and supplements, the chatter has stopped and my mind is 100% quiet. I can often hear the blood flowing in my head itâs so quiet.
I struggle to have a timeline too but my memories seem to pop out of a black hole! If there's a very specific date I may remember it. I think my computer is broken lol. I also give a 100% to a conversation and now I understand the men in my family a bit more, that maybe they don't have to. I hate "to do" lists as well as I guess I can't think of things I don't know might need doing ... I know I'm a year late but this is so fascinating!
You're good on camera. That's the musician in you!
Aw, thanks!
Question: How would you rate your emotions on your memories of the past
I really can't re-feel past emotions much at all. I know how I felt, like I can tell you I was happy or sad or whatever, but I don't feel that emotion when I bring up the memory. It's just another fact that I know about what happened. All my memories just have a pleasant, nostalgic feel - just calm and flat đ€·ââïž.
I think this may be related to SDAM and my inability to remember the past in first-person perspective. I've been meaning to do a video on that, but things have been a bit hectic lately, and I haven't been able to manage it yet. Hopefully I'll be able to soon!
11:05 all data, yes, I would agree with that. There's no image, it's just abstract information. Like for example if I think of KITT from Knight Rider, I know it was run by Strong AI program, it was indestructible, it was long and black, it was a 1982 Pontiac Trans Am. But these are just abstract points of information. I don't see images of the car in my head. I just know things about it. If that makes sense to anyone. :)
I recently discovered that I have aphantasia and now everything makes sense. For example when going into a forest or just traveling I can't remember how the places look like but they have a sense of familiarity that's why I know I've been there or that was the path we took.
Whatâs interesting to me is how much you speak with your hands and physically act out narratives and images and how it differs from your husband. Do you have kinestheic memory? Can you easily remember dance routines? Iâve done some acting and singing and I have a strong bias to audio information. But since I have aphantasia and am clumsy, Iâm hopeless with dancing and I canât remember blocking movements. I have to draw pictures of where I have to move on stage. Iâm even worse learning dance routines and itâs a huge problem for me at auditions for musicals, because they have you learn and walk through routines.
I went on vacation at the in-laws, 18 years ago. I went into their yard at night, figuring I could remember where everything was. Oh! What a surprise! Stairs leading down to the root cellar! Ow.
Husband, are you seeing images of these houses in your mind's eye? Do your eyes have to be closed to do it?
Like I said, I am like Quiet Mind, literally if my eyes are open I literally see just what I'm looking at, and if they are closed I see darkness. That's crazy if you actually see images of the house. Is it a vivid image, like high resolution?
Do you ever experience deja vu?
Interesting thing is that those of us with normal mind's eyes will have memories in the third person. I have several memories, usually stressful or painful ones, where for whatever reason I remember it from another perspective. Sometimes top down, sometimes from a random outside observer. Never occurred to me until now how much processing my brain is doing to achieve that and how strange that must seem to someone without it.
I used to be able to experience memory like that when I was like 5, 6 maybe 7 (where I could visualize what I had done in my head during say the previous week and it was sort of like watching myself from afar, and sort of like a minute being played of a movie as to what I had done, going fairly fast. But then it went away (it seemed to be like I became 'more cognitive removed' from it, more conceptual abstract thinking and less visual thinking). Once when I was 20 I had a several minute (my eyes were shut I was lying on the bed) session where I saw in the span of several minutes a sequence playing fast of what I had done during the previous year or two, and my perspective was watching myself from above (but still very much in my body, not an OBE but I was seeing my memories as if I had been out of body like).
I found your videos great. Im also mind blind and listening you your experience helps me compare it to mine
When you go to a place youâve been before, but maybe only once or twice.. do you remember that place?
Like Iâm wondering.. when you remember the house you went on vacation to.. do you remember the color of the house?
Your husband fits my mental image. Another thing is that whenever I talk to someone over the phone or in another context where I can't see them, I get a fairly specific image in my mind of what they look like. Sometimes the mental image is close. Other times it's a complete surprise. I have vocal chord problems so people must see me as an old lady (well, they'd be right).
I think my manager has Aphantasia, and also OCPD and narcissism. I might have Hyperphantasia and ADHD. I get into flow states where I can plan entirely inside my head and solve problems before they happen, and he seems to only be able to start working in order to find out what the obstacles are. He thinks my problem solving ability is "luck", and my planning is lazy, and I feel like he is chaotic and an energy vampire. It wouldn't be a big deal if there was some autonomy to do my job the way I used to before he became manager, but he INSISTS on dragging us into his mental state of constantly redoing thing until he or our clients give up on trying to get it right. He seems like he can't relate to others other than superficially. He can repeat words back to people as if he understands, but ultimately it is clear that he doesn't really know what anyone is actually meaning with their words. He can't go any deeper than the words he is repeating, there is no insight into anything, and asking him simple questions makes him very upset.
Oh so do you feel as if there is no time between events? I noticed when I catch up with someone after a year or more has passed, it's like no time has passed and I just continue as if I had been talking to them the day before. Which also means I don't miss people when they are away.
If you can't see your memories they just disappear? Always living in the moment? Can you draw things you've seen before? Like look at something, analyze it closely, and then put it aside and try to draw it on paper from memory. Would be a great video. What does you mind retain. You and your husband could both try and see the differences
I have memories, but no images or sounds with them. They're just kind of like data I guess. They don't feel any different in my head from other facts; it's just that I know they happened to me.
And I'm terrible at drawing!
When you mentioned that one of you have aphantasia and another has bad memory I was just thinking about how... I have both, so trying to remember when and what happened is just impossible sometimes. And also what your husband said about literally telling himself in his head to "pay attention" is way too relatable, my inner monologue kind of just never stops so it keeps on going even when I'm listening to someone and I have to really work hard sometimes on.. turning down the volume I guess to really focus on what the other person is saying. But I've been called a good listener in the past and people do often come to me with their problems so I guess I'm doing a good job of not making people feel ignored :D Also! When you talked about how weird it was to read that someone was imagining how your husband looked before they saw him, that reminded me of how when I started asking people about their visual imagination I found out when I used to write fiction more often people who read my writing had actual images in their heads. And it kind of blew my mind, because I just never even thought about how the characters really look, I may have thrown in some short comment about it here and there, but to me when I read it's more like... just additional information to make the world seem more realistic I guess, it never crossed my mind before that people actually picture it when reading
Yeah, it's still so strange to me that people make pictures of things they read. I used to write for fun when I was younger, and I'm sure if I went back through it now, I would notice that there were very few descriptions beyond the basic in it.
@@quietmindinside4808 now that's making me wonder if there are any published authors with aphantasia and how different their writing is. I found artists with aphantasia on youtube, so I'm sure there are some and we just don't know
@@roza2633 I know there's speculation that the writer of 'The Witcher' has aphantasia. Apparently in an interview he said that he couldn't picture his monsters until he saw them on screen made by someone else.
yeah, for me, if i imagined (which wouldn't be as clear as seeing him, mostly just possible characteristics) what your husband looked like before i saw him, actually seeing him would replace that.
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Yes totally. Like how I had a picture of Harry Potter in my head when I read the books but once I saw the movie the actors actually replaced all the characters in my head and now I have no recollection of what they were like before the movie.
So many questions! How do you do with ink blot tests? If you were going shopping for pillows to complement your sofa, how would you decide in the store if they would look good together?
By the way, when you said elephant as an example of a work that didn't have anything to pin it to, so many images of elephants from zoos, National Geographic photos, Dumbo, etc, from the general to the specific, were all in my minds eye, lol. And at the same time, they're not supplanting the mental images left from a dream I had before waking this morning. Sometimes I have trouble differentiating my dreamt images from remembered images; it can be a problem.
Hmm, I've never done an ink blot test, so I'm not sure. Some people have asked me if I can see shapes of things in clouds, and I have no problem doing that. Not sure if that's similar or not.
If I'm going shopping for something like that, I'd usually take a picture of my couch or look online for the same one so I can see it while I'm at the store. Decorating is not something I do often, though, so it doesn't happen much.
Interesting about the images my saying 'elephant' conjures up for you! I never would have thought of anything like that. Does that happen all the time or can you "turn it off"? Seems like you'd have images flashing almost constantly when talking with someone then. Interesting.
My husband says he sometimes confuses things from his dreams with real memories, too. That sounds so wild to me! Seems like things could get so confusing!
as someone with hyperphantasia, all of my memories are just as vivid. The only way I can distinguish timelines is based on the image of myself within them. So when i look back at memories of when i was 3, they feel just as strong as memories from yesterday, but I understand the context, because I'm looking up at my parents, chairs were like climbing mountains, and numerous other things... but yeah, there's no memory degradation.
I have sdam and aphantasia but I have an internal monolog in always talking to myself and trying to figure it out in my head. Having sdam bothers me the most not really remembering my kids births and stuff. My husband remembers past life like a timeline too and I remeber it like a bunch of random files that got dropped and I'm trying to put them back in order. It's kinda like GPS directions, my husband can get there by looking at the list from a to z and following it, I get there by landmarks and distinguished things like the pink house on the corner the mcdonalds with the playplace the splash park, the big horse statue.. I think that's a good way to describe the difference also. I think its why I have always been obsessed with photos and video but especially am now I have 5 kids and atleat 500k photos on diff hard drives. Just on my 1 yr old phone I have 55k photos
This relationship you have with your mind and memories reminds me of how i experienced my mind on the psychedelic iboga. There was this black cloudy space that my mind existed and it could access my memories and thoughts like they were 'indexed'.....but then occasionally an 'image' would arise from the smoke, perhaps with iboga you would see your mind's eye
It's an interesting idea, but it seems like many aphants can't get visuals on psychedelics either. Honestly, I'm a bit too nervous to try.
yeah iboga is actually one of the most intense psychedelics but has the deepest connection to personal memory and mind. Definitely not recommending anything but you might be interested in research (of course info is limited). The images that can occur in Iboga are 'hyper-real' versions of what people's mind's eye make - and they kind of pop out of the blackness cause you are still conscious but eyes closed and body immobilized. You might be surprised what the mind can do if left with nothing but darkness and nowhere outside to go for 10+ hours. Staying away from substances I would recommend a 10+ day silent meditation retreat (vipasanna or other options). Would be interesting to see the effects on the mind.
@@headscratchgames I've had a lot of recommendations to meditate as well. I've never had much interest in it before because it always seemed kind of boring to just sit there, but perhaps it would be interesting to see if anything might happen.
@@quietmindinside4808 thinking something 'might happen' is a kind of warped expectation cause the overall point of meditation is to passively observe what your mind and thoughts are doing naturally without reacting to them. The result of this change in consciousness of the mind passively changes how the mind fundamentally functions with no 'action' or 'event' needed. I'm not suggesting that your mind is flawed and needs to be changed but it would be interesting to see how your mind responds
"Our son wasn't alive yet" lol
I like your husband. He's pleasant and has a very calm, masculine energy about him.
I don't know about other people, but any time I bring up a memory, there isn't a 'movie' that starts playing. I think that there are more similarities to how you and other people think/remember things, than you realize. There are times when there might be a sequence but it usually is more fragmented.
Someone could mention 'Paris' and I might have a few flashes of memories from there. I went there is 1972 when I was 13. I can't remember all of the places I saw or all the people I met.
It's a little like taking a book and instead of reading every word, you read a couple of words on each page. You can get to the end and have an idea of what the book was about. To me, that's more of how memories are. Little snippets of things. Not a whole movie with a beginning, a middle and an end.
Would more recent memories be more "movie like" or are they all like image flashes no matter when they occur?
@@quietmindinside4808 Not really. Maybe for someone who has total recall.
If you think about it, if you ran a memory through your head like a movie, it would take as long as it did when it first happened. That's why I feel we remember snippets. We might be able to take a snippet and look at it more closely i.e. bring back more of the memory. Instead of movie, I think a better term to use would be 'highlight reel'.
This is all very interesting. Thank you for sharing these videos with us. Your husband is great!
@@soburlvt Thanks so much! He was actually really nervous about doing this, so I'm sharing all the positive comments with him because they've been really great.
Thanks for the highlight reel idea. That helps me get it better.
Is having problems with names part of aphantasia? I've had problems with names for my entire life. I guess it makes sense since we can picture a face to go with name.
Great videos, itâs all quite fascinating! Sorry if this has been asked before, but are you able to count in your head (i.e., to 60 seconds)? I typically count with an inner voice (saying âone, âtwoâ, and so on), but I have a friend who I was discussing this with a few months ago who said he counts by seeing numbers and says he rarely thinks with an inner voice. (Consequently he can read subtitles for a TV show and carry on a conversation at the same time, which is really challenging for me.) Iâve also heard of people counting by imagining the sensation of counting with their fingers (without actually moving their fingers). Iâm curious what you do.
On a different note, because you might find this interesting: yes, I did picture your husband looking different, but it was never a well-defined image, more just generic or vague attributes but still manifesting as a sort of vague image. So the replacement is quite easy because there wasnât much visual to override. I think the slight accent threw me off too, and I spent most of the video trying to figure out what it is or where he might be from (i.e., thinking in the back of my head while still paying attention to the conversation).
To assauge your curiosity, my husband is a Kiwi, but over a decade living with me and living overseas has neutralized his accent a bit đ.
As for the counting in my head, I talked about it a bit in another video, but I am able to force some kind of thought voice for things like that. Basically, I can only use it for things like reciting a phone number, running through a sentence or two for a speech or something of this nature, or as I'm writing. I don't think of it as an inner voice because I really can't use it the way you guys can. It doesn't narrate what I'm doing or point out things I observe. I can't use it to work through past conversations. I can't argue with it or get it to change in volume or speed or give it accents. It doesn't sound like me at all. Just like overlapping ideas of words. And I can't use it in the background during a conversation. I really have to focus on it to use it.
I think it's more of a thought rendering than a voice. I've heard other people call it a milk voice. Others describe it as thinking in words without sound.
My theory is that I'm able to "vocalize" just things in my working memory. But why that is, I have no idea. I could use it to count to 60, but truthfully I would have to concentrate pretty hard to do so and could lose my place quite easily. When I use this thought voice or whatever, I can't hold on to much information. Like, if I wanted to work out something to say with it, I could get about 3 to 4 sentences in, and then I would start to forget what I "said" in the first sentence.
Please explain how aphantasia feel love, express love, and what if you're in LDR.
Interesting that you used the computer DOS analogy as Iâd thought exactly that whilst watching one of your previous videos, ie you âperceiveâ and recall data as DOS whilst the majority of us âseeâ and âhearâ WYSIWYG!
I have a question that came to mind when you said you were unable to dwell on something. Does this mean too that you hever been depressed or rather you cant get depression? Because a lot of that is dwelling on old memories or the things that have happened to us. I feel that you have an advantage in this area. How awesome! That is if its the case?
I actually didnt imagine what your husband looked like before seeing him. So I guess with some things I dont have to bring up a image. I can choose if I want to put more energy into the thought or not. But this is only when I dont have a image to bring to mind. When I dont know what the image looks like. But if I want to think more about it that is when I would use my imagination. Now that I have seen him if you mention your husband again a picture of him will come up if I want it to or not.
I have aphantasia. I do have an inner voice though which can be very overactive but I think I'd drive myself mad if I didn't have that
Yes, the imagined image is replaced in my mind with the image of your actual husband. Where is he from? We are having a hard time placing his accent. I'm usually pretty good at placing accents but not this time...
He's actually half Papua New Guinean and half Kiwi. He had much more of a Kiwi accent when I met him, but I've been corrupting it over the years I suppose đ€Łđ€Ł. When he talks with his family it usually comes back!
Hee!
A question, how do you remember these facts? I struggle when I'm talking to friends of family about holidays or other things that happened. I feel I can't always talk with them because I can't image things in the past like other people do.
Same with the difficulty to remember songnames or singers.
I actually have a really good memory for my past, all things considered. But all of my memories seemed to be based on things I've done, rather than on people, objects, or locations. So, for example, if my brother asked me to remember what a doll of mine looked like from my childhood by giving me the name of the doll, I wouldn't be able to tell him. But, if he asked about the time I lost my doll at the mall, I would then remember which doll he was talking about and would be able to give a list of descriptions and other times we played with the doll. If you try focusing on things you've done, rather than things you've seen, is it easier? I find once I've gotten the starting off point for a memory, I'm pretty good at recalling it, but if you ask me something too general, like "Which birthday was your favorite?", I really have a hard time coming up with something.
@@rosemarievanberlo5363 For song names and singers, I'm pretty much hopeless! đ I know the names of pretty much every Beatles' song, but that's about it.
@@quietmindinside4808
Got it! It's the connection that you make. I try to remember specific situations, but without any other connection or an image, it needs to be so special to remember, otherwise it will flue away quickly. Facts are facts if you get it đ
Love you video's and thanks for the fast response.
@@rosemarievanberlo5363 Thanks! Glad you like them!
Timelines: for me I have a separate timeline that ties memories together. Itâs not sensory at all apart from relating when, order, sequence, and whether I remember it or not.
For me, if someone said a name of a person I had not seen before, my brain creates a picture of what they might look like based on the limited information given. For example, when you spoke about your husband in your videos I had a picture of what he may look like. Of course he doesn't look like how I had pictured, how can he as you did not give any descriptive features but I think its something the brain does to build some kind of connection to the person being spoken about. I suppose you don't ever picture what a person you have not seen before may look like. If you are speaking to someone on the phone e.g an operater, do you ever get a picture of what they look like based on their voice
No, never! It's really so weird to me that you all do this! When I talk to someone on the phone, I might be able to guess like where they're from or an approximate age, but I don't really use it to build any idea of them in my head. I'd only really bring up the information if someone asked me about it. The truth is that I've always hated talking on the phone. Even just ordering pizza made me kind of anxious. I'm thinking now that this may be because of the Aphantasia.
Just Me I actually do try to picture the person on the other end of the phone. Maybe nnot features, because Iâm blind, but I get a height, how much they may weigh, their skin tone... stuff like that. I love this whole topic, and I think Courtney should keep talking about this stuff. Very interesting to me.
@@missyhilary8905 đđŒ
Fellow quiet mind here... Notice how your husband is looking upwards and searching his thoughts while you are talking? He is distracted by the images...whereas you are constantly checking his facial reactions and body language instead of "looking" through your memories. You are more aware of how he is feeling because you don't have all the distractions going on. Although we are missing out on visuals and sounds we are making up for it on feelings and awareness.
Yes. That inner dialog is crazy loud sometimes. Lolz
I've watched a few of your videos now. Thank you for sharing this. I don't know why you stopped (as of this moment, you haven't posted a new video in nearly 5 months) but hope that it was not because of some problem - i.e., I hope you're doing well. While I do have an internal monologue (actually, dialogue might be a better word), I am also aphantasic. I also have what is called Severely Deficient Autobiographical Memory (SDAM) - that is, I have no first-person episodic memory so if I can remember something from my past, I can only remember *that* it happened but can't remember it happening in any first-person sense. For me, that has led to most all of my memories from a long time ago having faded away. I should clarify, though, that it's possible I still have the memories and what has faded away is instead the ability to make them conscious. I say that because there are times I am reminded by someone of some event in my past and, while I have no conscious, episodic memory of it, I sometimes have an emotional reaction that is tied to that event.
SDAM is part of a spectrum, the other end of which is called Highly Superior Autobiographical Memory (HSAM). [Who names these things?!?!? "Severely Deficient"? "Highly Superior"? You'd think they could have chosen some far less value-laden words ...] Anyway, from everything I've heard you describe in the videos I've watched, I would guess that you are on the SDAM side of the spectrum. I noted, for example, your memories of your high school graduation were like a third-person accounting of the events. In contrast, your husband, despite not having clear memories of his graduation, shared a first-person memory of something he said. You also say in this video that you are unable to pay attention to one thing while also thinking about something else. And then, shortly after, you redirect the conversation to something right after your husband finishes speaking. It's clear that you were both listening to him and thinking of what you wanted to say next. I would suggest that the difference isn't in your ability but in your not being conscious of the fact that you are thinking of something else while listening ... It's possible, in fact, that there's a correlation between where you look and whether or not you're paying attention to someone you're listening to. It seemed to me that, while listening to your husband, you drop your gaze when you switch to thinking "offline". I could definitely be wrong about that, but it seemed that way to me.
Regardless, Courtney, thank you for posting these videos and, again, I hope you are doing well.
Hi, Paul! Thank you so much for reaching out. I really appreciate the kind words. It's kind of been a weird combination of things that has kept me from posting for a while, but I do plan to work on this some more. Honestly, a big part was that I was getting to that point where I just felt like I didn't understand enough. I've been doing a lot of reading about consciousness and what "normal" experiences are, and I think it's really helping me gain a better understanding of the differences I'm experiencing. So I'm feeling a bit more confident speaking about it.
I've actually done two interviews - one on CZcams and one on Twitch - over the past few months, too. I really prefer doing my videos with others because it's so much easier to have someone ask me about what they find interesting rather than me trying to guess in my videos! đ€Ł I would love to find someone to pair up with more regularly.
I've also been in contact with a research lab and joined in on about five aphantasia research projects, which has been fun. Some of their tests have been quite interesting and surprising.
As for SDAM, yes! I definitely believe I have SDAM, and it's actually what I was hoping to do a video on next because I think anyone who discovers aphantasia will quickly learn about this secondary condition. I feel there is a spectrum for this, and perhaps not all aphants experience it the same way, though. I've spoken with someone who cannot remember her college graduation that occured two years ago, which seems much more severe than my experience. I've been wondering if perhaps this has to do with one being simply having a better semantic memory. I was actually very good at memorizing things in school, and perhaps this ability has spilled over into how well I can remember my past. This has also lead me into the concept of "false memories", and whether aphants suffer from them as acutely as those who can visualize. (My theory is that we have some level of protection against them.)
It's very interesting that you noticed the eye thing! I have been contacted for an eye tracking study, but they're having trouble getting enough participants. I think COVID is going to make this a problem for a while, unfortunately.
As for the unconscious thinking while my husband talks, I think you are exactly right. The more I read about consciousness, the more I believe that the mental imagery and internal voices are actually secondary to what the actual thinking process is. I think all my thoughts are likely happening the same way as everyone else, but I am just not consciously aware of them because we don't really need to be. I've actually been reading a lot of philosophical theories, and I've found the work of Peter Carruthers and Axel Cleeremans quite interesting. They both believe consciousness isn't where thinking occurs, albeit with slightly different theories. Cleeremans' Radical Plasticity Thesis is particularly interesting to me. He believes the conscious mind is simply the unconscious mind explaining to itself what it's doing. It's such a fascinating idea, and it really speaks to me and my experience. Hopefully I will have more time soon to read up more on it.
I could really talk about this forever! đ€Ł
Anyway, thanks again for reaching out! I really appreciate it. Sometimes I feel a bit apprehensive about sharing so much about myself, but it really makes it worthwhile to know that it's been helpful for others. So really, thanks!
@@quietmindinside4808 Thank you for your reply! Glad to hear that you are doing well. I would like to hear more about the "interesting and surprising" results of the tests you've taken (and more about the research projects, in general).
Your lack of an inner voice got me wondering whether or not you actually don't have one or you do but aren't conscious of it. It occurs to me that you might be able to test that as follows (you will need to use a timer for this): Position yourself in front of a bookshelf, start the timer, count (without speaking) the books on one of the shelves (there should be more than 10 books) and, when done, stop the timer and record the elapsed time. Now, do the same thing again, but now time yourself counting the same books out loud. How close are the two elapsed times to each other? If I do this, the times will be very close to one another as I will use my inner voice to count the books (silently) and that voice "speaks" at the same pace as my out-loud voice. For you, though, I would expect the time for counting the books silently to be faster than out loud _if_ you are not internally verbalizing the counting (i.e., there would be no need to match your counting speed to the pace of your voicing each number so it should be faster). If, instead, the times are very close then that _suggests_ that you are, in fact, using an inner voice but are just not conscious of it. [I hope that makes sense!]
I have long been fascinated by the topic of consciousness. Years ago (maybe 2004?) I arrived at the idea that the brain models the world (as experienced through the senses over time) and that, in that process, ends up modeling a "self" in that modeled world. My hunch has been that "consciousness" is a "feature" of that modeled self - that, in fact, what we experience as "us being conscious" is actually the modeled self providing feedback to the modeling machinery (i.e., the brain). This is all borne out of the idea that evolution would necessarily have had to progress somehow from simple "stimulus-response" forms of life to intelligent life forms (like us, but not exclusively us) and the probable pathway for that evolution would likely involve the addition of something between stimulus and response and that "in between" thing would be, at first, some "hardwired" model of some aspect of the world that would lead to better responses. Over billions of years that evolved into stimulus-model-response systems capable of very sophisticated models of the world. Given enough sophistication, it seems almost inevitable that the model would include a "self" in that model ... and so on. I've only recently begun to encounter neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers talking about this (e.g., czcams.com/video/qjccf8O9xpw/video.html). I am looking forward to reading more about Cleeremans' theory. Thank you for sharing that.
@@PaulPomeroy I think you'll really like Cleeremans' theories. They seem to match up very well with your ideas!
As for the inner voice, this is honestly the trickiest one, and the thing that I've really spent the most time examining. The thing is that I can force words in my head. Like, for example, I could count to ten in my mind, as you suggested. But, I don't "think" with that voice. I never hear it spontaneously or talk to myself with it. I have a suspicion that it's just a part of my working memory, but I can't really find any information related to that. I believe this, however, because I can't keep long streams of information with it. Like, I could practice about three sentences of a speech, and then I'd start to forget the beginning.
I have actually found one study that I feel might shed some light on my experience, and I'll link it below. Basically they hooked a woman up to an fMRI, and then looked at which parts of her brain were working for different internal tasks. They discovered that there is a difference between what Hulbert called "inner speaking" and "inner hearing", so speaking in your mind as you would out loud vs. listening to your mind speaking to you. I believe that I'm able to do this "internal speaking" (or forced inner voice), but I'm unable to do the "internal listening". I think this may be why I can't hear voices in my head or replay dialogues internally. I'm just not able to "hear" things in there. Now, of course, the question is then whether there is some kind of physiological issue making it impossible for me or if I somehow learned to stop paying attention to it. I really don't know. I'm leaning toward some kind of messed up wiring, based on the fact that I lack visual imagery while awake and asleep. It seems likely to me that it's all related, but I could be totally wrong. My current theory is some sort of overactive synaptic pruning when I was young, or something like that. Truthfully, I don't really want to try to start listening for the inner voice. Most people's seem to be pretty negative, so I kind of feel lucky not to have it.
www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.01393/full
@@quietmindinside4808 That's quite interesting what you say about inner speaking vs. inner listening. I hadn't really considered the two separate like that. Still, the book counting experiment I suggested is of value, I think. You say that you can "force words in your head" while, for example, counting but I assume you can also count things "in your head" without forcing that voice to be there. If so, then the experiment will still work. I had assumed, in my previous comment, that my counting a shelf of books silently would be about the same speed as counting them out loud. I just conducted the experiment on myself here and it turns out that when I count silently I am slower than when I count out loud. The shelf I picked to count has 29 books on it. I counted them silently in 16.58 seconds, but it took just 12.87 seconds to count them out loud. I hadn't expected that.
Your use of the phrase "messed up wiring" made me wince a bit as it suggests you consider all these different conditions you have as somehow being "wrong." One of the things that I have been thinking more and more about lately is that people are as different on the inside as they are on the outside. I think I've always just thought all the differences were pretty much limited to what we can see and measure but now I am seeing that the differences are much more extensive, much deeper, down to how our brains are wired up _and_ how they go about wiring themselves up as we grow older. You might consider, then, that your wiring isn't "messed up," it's just different. That seems a little kinder ...
Thank you for the link to the article. I've bookmarked it. I've also bookmarked one of Cleeremans' papers that I found online.
@@PaulPomeroy Yeah, sorry, you're right. I should phrase that a bit better. I don't think of my experience as "wrong", more just "different". When I said "messed up", I meant more as just "different from the norm", but not worse than. Honestly, the more I dive into these things, the more I think that at the heart of things, our base thinking is the same. It's just what happens after that spark of thought that's different.
When I read a book which says, just imagine of you won a oscar and how do you feel.... My answer blank
Thank you for all these videos! On the first video of yours that I saw, you were sad that you don't have the "normal" experience but I'm not sure you're worse off. For all I can tell your existence is at a higher level, where we're down in the gears of the machine manipulating it. You on the other hand seem that you don't have to worry about that. Also you asked what the point of word problems were with math. They are to get students to identify the relationships and order of operations, so that they can apply math in situations outside of a textbook.
I wanted to ask about how you tell lie. I know you've said you can, but how do you decide to lie? Do you observe yourself lying and figure out that you are lying because of the words coming out aren't true, or do you commit to the lie before the thought words come out? I always have to choose the words most likely to create my desired outcome. I think the bigger thing I'm touching on is planning. How do you plan without an inner monologue?
Based on what I've learned from other commentors here, I think I'm just not that good at planning đ€Ł. Honestly, when I want to lie, I just lie. I know that I'm lying, and I just say the lie I want to say. Perhaps I'm running through the same scenarios in my head to determine what the best lie is that you all are, but the process is silent, so I'm not actively paying attention to it. If you asked me afterwards if there were other lies I considered, I would be able to tell you if there were, but I just don't take them out of that conceptual stage unless necessary. I really don't like to lie, though, so I don't do it often because I don't like the feelings of guilt after. I bet, though, that my lies are way less inventive or detailed compared to others.
For planning, I don't know, I just do what I feel is best. Perhaps I'm a bit more "fly by the seat of my pants" than average? I'm not sure. I do need to write my schedule down to not forget things, though.
I really think the only difference between how my mind works and a "typical" one does is that for some reason I'm not doing the translation process from thoughts to internal sensory experiences. Why that is, though, I have no idea. My husband thinks I likely just fell into this way of thinking as a child and determined it was easier. I think it's more likely that there's some funky wiring up there that caused it đ.
@@quietmindinside4808 You probably have so much more peace of mind than those of us whose brains babble away. What you have is a blessing in disguise.
@@ginaprespare1316 I'm trying my best to focus on the good over what I'm missing out on. It's getting easier; although, I still have some jealousy over not being able to see memories with my loved ones. That's the hardest thing, I think.
11:41 this happens to me as well, also, does it ever happen to you that when multiple people talk at the same time, or they just talk very fast, you don't remember who said what, like, sometimes you think X said something, when in reality it was someone else who was talking in that moment?
How do your children remember/think? Did it get passed down to them?
I don't think so. They seem to visualize fine. My son is still a bit too young to really talk about it, but he'll play with imaginary characters and says he sees dragons in the air, so I think his mental imagery is working. đ
I kind of envy you guys living so much in the present, I'm struggling with mental disorders, neurological ADHD and such đ
No one person can speak for humanity. Doesn't mean you can't speak! In fact, that's why we all should to speak.
P.S.: I had no picture of your husband, but now I think he looks like some actor I can't remember the name! lol
You say memories feel the same strength because it is all just data to you. I am wondering if, like, you could remember the actions you have done in a current day, like what you ate for breakfast, etc, and a LOT of "data", but if you think about a week ago, like oh remember we went to the movies last week. And you could say, yeah I remember the action of us going to the movies. My question would be, do you have as much "data" from that day as you do from today? Like, can you feel how far away some memories are based on how much "data" you have around that action. I guess, how much context of that event you can remember?
When I don't look in a mirror I always have an idea or a picture in my head how I may look like in this Moment. For example when the wind blows my hair around. How do you know how you look when no mirror is around? Are you surprised when you see yourself?
I honestly don't think of how I look at all unless I'm looking in a mirror! I actually just found out yesterday that when you guys say "self-image", you literally have a picture of yourself in your head. I thought it was figurative đ. (I think I need to do a video on this because I need to know more!)
I wouldn't say I'm surprised, because I know it's me in the mirror. Whenever I look at myself, I just think that's how I've always looked. I honestly think I look the same now as I did 20 years ago đ. Logically I know this is not true, but I can't imagine how I used to look without an actual picture.
@@quietmindinside4808 You need to do a video about this! It's really interessting how different our thoughts are. đ
What about like the day he met you or your kids births does he remeber those clear?
You then dont control your selfe .. you have memory but when somone points someting to you ..so you can go to France go back And have no memory in 1 months odd i can see smel even see me picking rock And how it felt ..I can even add someting from last trip to second if i wanna And conecct them in one ..hmm this is facinating
Sometimes I don't remember something anymore, I cannot recall the image or the sound etc. But I can recall a time when I could recall it, and I can remember what I remembered about it then. Is there something similar to this for you?
Not that I can recall. Sounds interesting. Like picture in picture video or something.
@@quietmindinside4808 I'd say I do NOT have the inner picture in the picture-in-picture. Either I remember (as an image and sound/dialog) me telling someone about what I remembered back then, or I remember my internal thoughts and that they involved me finding some info about the original memory, info that I no longer recall except through this intermediate memory. So it's more like when in a movie someone explains what happened in the past, without us seeing the flashback he is having. Except that someone is my past self. :-)
I asked some friends btw and found one of my friends that has afantasia as well but she can hear music and voices in her head if needed. Her sisters and her mother don't have it, she checked.
Perhaps someone has already asked you about this: I noticed in the video that your husband's eyes seem to fixate on nothing, especially while he is recalling visual memories. That's kind of a telltale sign of someone imagining an image. Similar to closing the eyes, fixating the eyes on nothing (as if you are too drunk to focus on anything) helps make imaginary images more clear as you don't have to think about the real world image. Do you have anything similar? Do your senses overwhelm your ability to focus and recall information from your memory?
I'm going through all your videos, they are very interesting. I had only seen the first two or so when you first opened the channel. :-) So feel free to ignore my questions especially if you are answering them in some other video. Hehe.
@@1NSHAME I can do that "zone out" thing...like you're focusing on the space between your eyes or something. But when I do it, I'm actually zoned out and I'm not thinking at all. Not even my silent thinking that I can "feel" happening - just nothing at all. I always figured that was what meditating was, which is why I always found it really boring đ. When I'm trying to recall something, I think I look upwards more than off into the distance.
As for being overwhelmed by sensory overload, I guess it depends. If it's just noise or whatever around me that's not directed at me, I can pretty much ignore it. When I was in school, I often studied and did homework while watching TV, and it didn't affect me at all. My dad thought it was super weird đ. But if too many people are talking directly at me, then I can definitely feel overwhelmed. I assume that's the same for most people, though.
And I don't mind the questions at all! They actually really help me understand better what is typical, and help me find clearer ways to explain what I'm experiencing. So I really appreciate them all!
Hi, Randy again, I'm kind of going backwards on your videos, so forgive the question about visualizing yourself, husband, kids, cause you answered it in the next video I watched. Sorry. For me, my mind deals more with concepts instead of visuals. Here's a situation from 30 years ago that I COULD DO THEN, but very hard or impossible now. It goes, I did a memory speech where I had 10 positions visualized while walking into my college dorm - (outside next to the door, in the middle of the hallway, in front of my room door, in the middle of the room, on my bed, under my bed, on the desk, like that. Each position had a number from 1 to 10. I asked somebody to make a list from 1 to 10 on paper and asked random people to pick an unused number and an animal or easily recognizable object (say, number 6, lion - number 3-bear, number 9-a stuffed giraffe, and so on until I had all 10 numbers with objects or animals assigned to them. After each person said a number, I would say, 'wait' until I brought that number position in my head(under the bed) then I asked them to name an object or an animal (a stuffed giraffe) then I would close my eyes and visualize or 'put' a giraffe under my bed. So every number was random, but I put each item into its place, and when they were all done, I took a second and recited 'there is a bear outside the dorm by the door, and there is a lion in the hallway, and a triangle by the door, a fan in the middle of the room, a hippo on my bed, and a clown is looking at me through the window. Now, mind you, all of these are merely examples of what I did(not my actual memories of the animals or positions,that was 30 years ago) but I CORRECTLY NAMED EVERY NUMBER WITH EVERY OBJECT/ANIMAL THAT THE CLASS CHOSE. If you want a fun game with your husband or kids to play, try the memory position/object game with them and see how you and all of them do. This technique can be used to remember like shopping lists too(milk on your doorstep, eggs on your bed, pancakes on your couch, peanut butter in your tub, try it, I think it will really help and if not right away, then maybe over time. I'm so glad you have opened my eyes to what I can and cannot do(or could do), and best of all I hope you and your family can make use of this memory technique that I learned in college. Bye, for now.
When you remember things that happen in your trip how thise thoughts come.to you. Because seems you remember more that your husband. So you have a picture come to you even with your eyes open? I am confuse.
I donât have a picture. I just know it. When I remember something, I just kind of get this dump of information. Mostly it's just the actions and things we did. I can't remember what people wore, or sometimes even all the people that were there, though. I'm not seeing anything, I just know that it happened.
@@quietmindinside4808 just now am learning about this topic and am shocked. Because it happen for me the same. My retentive and memory is strong and I kind of remember the situation how it was. But not able to do Play again in my mind. Is hard to explain. I cam dream and I remember my dreams but not to placed mack in my mind when I close my eyes. I did ayahuasca once and was the only time I was able to see colors.with my eyes closed
@@aldoescobar8192 Yes, I'm the same. I remember events very well, but I can't play them again in my head. Unfortunately, I don't get visual dreams, either. I've only remembered two, and they felt like my other memories.
@@quietmindinside4808 so basically remember an event is different than imagine something. For example you can picture your husband by a memorie but not imagine something new. Is this correct? Sorry for the questions but I want to understand if am on the same level. I can have in mind some memory of me 10 years ago and have a memory of what was going on that day
@@aldoescobar8192 No, I don't have any picture of anything in my head. I can't remember what thinks looked like in my memories nor build new images in my imagination. There's just nothing there. When I recall a memory, I just have all the information as data. I know what I did, but I can't see it. I can't picture my husband at all in my head. I recognize him when I see him, and I can tell you characteristics of him, but I don't have any image of him in my head.
Have you and your husband taken the VVIQ test? I scored a 16 ( no imagery) and my wife my wife scored 80 ( hyperphantasia) it is a great insight for both of us.
Oh, that's a good idea. I've done it, but my husband hasn't.
I practised memory observation for a couple of years. It seems people who string together things in time have a linear delay in recalling information or that it's only a series of images but it's limited to just those few pictures. People who have the other way seem to have simultaneous recollection. I'm visual like your husband and often drift off in day dreams but when I practise simultaneous actions my brain struggles because it can no longer have two images at the same time so it becomes more like touch awareness plus one image association action or like trying to play hop Scotch as well as be in the bodys other senses. When i try to experience the processing limit in the conscious my visual imput starts going white/ blind so sometimes it's easier to close the eyes like in tai chi sense and reaction without using eyes
Very interesting. Definitely everything I recall for a memory is simultaneous. When you have linear recall, is it like a movie sped up? It seems like it must still be faster than what happened in real time, but I'm not sure.
@@quietmindinside4808 it's that everything I see I can remember by association to another thing I know about. So when I see a kettle I see my car at a certain location. There is usually a small emotional/ chemical response in the gut or heart as I was day dreaming about what I could do to modify my car while using the kettle last at that location. If I change the location of the kettle my brain sometimes uses new image representations. I can change habit sets by going through a visual motor rehearsal and consciously changing components through repetition so that the new habit string changes. Like eg. Image image image hand left draw image image, repeat till its a habit. My theory is that memories that have a strong emotional association content stay as the grounding to help string other new ideas together to save memory space. Most people aren't conscious of this because it doesn't have much use knowing this. The funny thing is that when you truly watch the thoughts they go away (this mode is how I imagine not having minds eye self chatting / imaging) Also if I'm not being strongly aware but talking about a topic I always think about, i talk way fast. Im pretty sure the images move fast but the people who listen struggle because they don't have the association set because I'm not showing them visual material accompanying. Thats assuming they have that spectrum. I'm guessing that most visual minds eye people see a faint image or fuzzy like a room full of fog.
@@quietmindinside4808 I think us visual people get stressed easily by day dreaming all the time. Even if we look Like we are paying attention or listening. The way to tell if we really are listening or understanding is that the physiology changes. More eye contact, relaxed muscles, different tone of voice. Having a visual brain is quite distracting as the more tired you are or if you don't have the sense only / being in the body technique you end up in a day dream constantly. It's like being tipsy / drunk all the time. I look forward to seeing more of your videos :)
What I meant by simultaneous actions is like having intention in as much of the body as possible while performing two or more tasks at once. ( like sense and reaction in tai chi and kick and block together in wing chun but it a fluid active way) It's very taxing and it burns up more energy trying to sustain it
@@nicholasdavidson5683 I think this is all very interesting. I am wondering now how many times in my life I was talking to people that were totally not paying attention to me, though đ. Seems unfair that you guys can tune out during boring conversations, and I'm stuck paying attention to all of it đ€Ł.
Can you do a video on what your imagination is like? through your videos that is my number one question. thanks for what you do!
I did one on daydreaming before, but to be honest, I'm not sure if it's that clear. It's really hard for me to explain things sometimes because there just aren't the right words to use. For me, thoughts are just thoughts. They're completely independent and unrelated to any sensory experience. There are no sounds, images, smells, or tactile sensations. They just "are" and I just "know" them. And all the words we use for imagination are sensory based.
The best I've come up with so far is that when I imagine, it's like narrating a silent play while blindfolded. I know the words I want to say and what I want the actors to say, but we can't hear each other, we just know it. And we know how everyone is moving on the stage, even though we can't see each other. I guess it would be similar to if you've done something so many times, you don't really have to see what's happening to know what should happen. Like, if you've ever worked in a restaurant kitchen, the people there instinctively know which way their coworkers will move because they've gone around each other doing the same thing so many times before. They don't need to talk about it or look at each other, they just know what to do. When I imagine, it's something like that. All the things happen and I don't see or hear individual things, I just know everything that's going on.
I've heard someone call those of us with aphantasia as "hyperconceptualizers", and I'd say that's a pretty accurate description. Everything in my head is the concept of something, not individual sensory-dependent parts.
@@quietmindinside4808 i think it'd be cool to see brain scans of someone with aphantasia vs without and asking the same questions and then seeing which parts of the brain react and ignite. i wonder if this has already been done!
@@JustAnotherWhiteGirl13 I know! I really want to do this! I also want to play a game of memory with a normal visualizer and see how our brain scans differ when we try to recall where certain cards are!
Itâs really difficult for me to remember names.
Hmm, the husband was sorta looking up when he was trying to remember stuff... As if he's trying to (literally) find the memories with his eyes. I've read that that's pretty common, I wonder if it is less common among people with aphantasia?
She doesnât look up , maybe because not pictures?
where in New Zealand did you go? and more about Taiwan life please. how do you live and what is school like for your children?
also... how do you plan for the future with no internal monologue or visualization? do you worry about the future or things that "might" happen? when you are old for example or getting sick or a pandemic! I have a very worried nature and my inner mobologue plagues me constantly with what if scenarios and vivid movies of things that "could" happen. i also replay past memories like a movie whilst seeing things in the future in my minds eye whilst going about my day and talking to myself in my head and also experiencing those thoughts that you just "know" something but dont say it in a sentance in my head.
your quiet mind is facinating to me. i mean can it really be true? how am i afflicted with such a busy brain/mind and yet you function very well with such a quiet one.
We actually went all around both islands! We did the North Island for a week (and went to Hobbiton, which was amazing!), then we flew down to Christchurch and rented a camper van and drove along the east coast. Had a great time, but, man, everything closes so early! đ
Honestly, I've never been much of a worrier. I've always felt like things will just work how they're going to work out, so why waste time worrying about it. I've always thought of myself as pretty unambitious, too. I just don't care about that stuff. As long as I'm happy doing what I'm doing, that's all that matters. I used to assume these were just my personality traits, but now I believe my aphantasia has really shaped these things. I literally cannot picture myself doing anything in the future. I can have general concerns, like will I have anything saved for retirement, but that's about it. I don't feel stress about my future. I'll just work it out when I get there.
I really can't imagine what it's like to talk to yourself in your head all day. It seems so odd to me, like you are separate from your mind instead of just being "you". Other people be told me that their inner voice is "them", though, and they can't imagine not having it. Is it like a back and forth thing? Like in your head, it's "Should we have pancakes for breakfast?" "Nah, I want eggs." "No, we had that yesterday." "Ok, cereal then."
I can't get over how different our experiences are!
@@quietmindinside4808 i am in Christchurch. would love to hear more about taiwan. ha ha yep well everything is closed early or completely now! thank you for your facinating reply it is so dam interesting. i would say more like hmm should i have pancakes instead of we. its not like being gollum.
do you worry about your children during the day if they are at school and can you not picture their face?
@@JOYSILVERWOOD1 Taiwan is an amazing place. People are so friendly and helpful, and living here so convenient. Great public transportation, and we pay all our bills at convenience stores. It's more crowded than anywhere I've lived before, but people are so nice and friendly, that it doesn't feel big and scary. We've lived in our neighborhood so long that everyone knows us, so it's quite a peaceful life.
My husband went to uni in Christchurch! I was surprised when we got there how small the city is, though. I thought it would be like Chicago or something đ€Ł. The library downtown was amazing!
My kids are both young, so they're not in school yet, but I don't worry about them if I'm ever away from them just because I can't picture their faces. I guess I'm used to not seeing anyone's face in my head, so it's not weird to me. However, I think it may be easier to be separated from loved ones because I'm not constantly seeing them in my mind. My husband travels a lot for business, so it's not uncommon for us to spend a week or two apart each month. Truthfully, I don't really think about him until he gets back - which sounds really terrible, I know! But while he's gone, I honestly don't really think about calling him to keep in touch. I remember one time his sister came to visit us in Taiwan, and she was calling her partner every night, and I thought it was so strange. Like, how many new things happened to you that you need to share after one day đ€Ł. My husband's never complained about it, but now that I know about this difference I have, I'm trying harder to make sure I contact him more while he's away.
@@quietmindinside4808 would love a blog around Taiwan and showing us some places. how live is and how ppl live etc. I worry about my husband and kids all day. and imagine various scenarios of awful things happening to them. earthquakes, shootings etc. If you have ever seen the movie Heavenly Creatures? my brain is like that. full of really full on ideas and imagination. Taiwan seems fascinating. Do you speak the language
@@JOYSILVERWOOD1 I've never seen it, but I'll check it out! I don't really think about scenarios like you describe. Like if my kids are climbing high on the playground, I might worry that they could fall, so I stand under them just in case, but I don't imagine it actually happening. More of a better safe than sorry thing.
I speak enough Chinese to get around, but that's about. I've always had a hard time with languages. Can't ever seem to get past the beginner level.
Are you able to do voice interpretations?
Hmm. I can make up silly voices when I'm reading books to my kids, but I can't impersonate someone else's voice very well I think.
Cor, your husbands bloody lovely looking, is he South African? You are very beautiful so I can see how you bagged him đ
"Dir" to see a list of files in dos and dir/s to include subdirectories and no I have no visual images only black.
I'm glad you keep making these videos! Just recommending you some things to have more views in your videos! Maybe read a little bit about CZcams SEO? But you're super nice and your husband too.
Thanks so much! I honestly have no idea what that is, but I'll look it up đ.
Your husband is very cute
Do you know what your Meyers Briggs personality type is? I think we think and communicate similarly.
Someone asked me to take the test on 16 personalities. It said I was ESFP. Not sure if I believe it because it says I'm supposed to have a strong anesthetic sense, and I literally wear jeans and t-shirts every day, and I have no art in my house, and none of my furniture matches đ€Ł.
@@quietmindinside4808 I was resistant to the idea that a test like that could put me in a box. I have taken this test multiple times over the last 30 years and it has always come back as INTJ. The consistency has convinced me that there is something to it. We may not have the same MBTI personality be we seem to think similarly. Thank you for putting yourself out there for the world to see and criticize.
I have SDAM as well. My memories are in third person and are few and far between.
Honestly, of everything, that is what makes me the saddest. It would be so amazing to re-see the best moments of my life whenever I wanted đ.
The fact that your husband is NOT imagining people behind the camera is 100% perfectly normal. That is a technique taught to people to help them present better over video. IF he was a vlogger and thought about it for a while, he might probably come up with it on his own because to be natural on camera, you don't want to come across like you're talking to yourself. You want to be perceived as if you are talking to your audience. So it comes to people naturally after they see how bad their first attempt came out. But yeah there is no reason for him to instinctively imagine people behind the camera and not doing so does not say anything about him.
Heh, pretty cool you started off talking about a comment I left. But you misunderstood. When I stream, I do not imagine the audience behind the camera. Instead, I imagine what the audience sees. So, it's more like I'm watching myself while I stream. I see my facial expressions, and all that, while also watching the game/chat.