The Problem with Applied Behavior Analysis | Chloe Everett | TEDxUNCAsheville
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- čas přidán 7. 04. 2019
- Imagine not being allowed to do harmless things, such as tapping your foot or express happiness. This is the reality that many people on the autism spectrum face, and it has a name: applied behavioral analysis. Autistic activists and their allies have long spoken out against this therapy, and science is finally beginning to back their claims.
Chloe Everett is a student at UNC-Asheville, where she studies psychology and neuroscience. Chloe is a staunch advocate for disability rights and neurodiversity. She has experience working with people on the autism spectrum, and is neurodivergent herself. Chloe is dedicated to using her experiences growing up in the behavioral therapy system to better assist others, and improve existing therapies for autism. This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at www.ted.com/tedx
I was becoming an ABA therapist and was loving it at first but started to notice some red flags. I felt I was traumatizing some of the children and in return I felt traumatized to. My instructor's were very strict and harsh with the children and training. I felt like we were pushing them too far or ignoring their emotional needs. I quit on the day one of my children got hurt while we were playing outside. He tripped and hit his face hard on the concrete. Splitting his chin, and broke skin on his cheek and knees. He was screaming in pain and there was lots of blood, putting him into a panic. My instructor saw his state when I picked him up and rushed him to the bathroom. She looked mad and said nothing. After patching him up I tried to help calm and comfort him with a story book and his favorite toys. An instructor came in the room and yelled at me for giving in to his crying behaviors and that I needed to distract him with programs and not comfort or he will use crying for more negative attention seeking. I told her I was helping him calm down so he would be able to focus on other things but right now he was too upset and hurting. She did not care for the child's injuries or situation. She said If it's hard for me to follow ABA protocols then I need more training and stormed out. I was appalled. With or without autism, my child was 6 years old. Children need lots of help regulating their emotions. She seemed to have no empathy or understanding. I decided I didn't believe in this type of therapy and wanted nothing to do with it. ABA is punitive and abusive.
This is ABA at it's absolute worst. You should consider DIR/Floortime, SCERTS, TEACCH, or Hanen.
This isn't how ABA should be conducted. My experience with ABA is totally different. If you had tried another supervisor, perhaps it would be different.
wow, were you on your way to become a BCBA?
@@tulliasychrareucci5476 just because your experience appeared nicer doesn’t mean it was good
@@GarnachoEmpire712 Just because someone had a bad experience with a practitioner does not mean the field itself is bad
I work in ABA as a therapist and I agree. If the behavior is not hurting anyone, then why force to change it. A lot of moms love me for that because our supervisors wants to change every "not normal" behavior. I totally understand if it was maladaptive or hurting others/themselves. But if they're doing things that make them happy and also help them decrease their anxiety, why not allow them to do it?! I had a kiddo that wanted to communicate but couldn't. Every time he tried to communicate, but couldn't, he would get frustrated. And when he did, he would go to the backyard and splash water around to calm himself down. Other therpaists would rather him play "appropriately" with the water. But to me, he found a reasonable way to deal with his frustration in his own home and its not hurting anyone. So why force him to play a certain way?!
The problem with many of these so-called behavioral approaches is that they aren’t really beneficial for the child’s individual development and personal success.
They are so focused on imposing rules just for the sake of having them followed even though they benefit no one and deviating from them hurts no one.
It sounds like you should stop calling yourself an ABA therapist. The few “Good” ABA therapists who work outside the confines of ABA make it easier for the abusive core of ABA practitioners to continue unrepentantly abusing children.
The speaker: I don't like loud voices
The audience: " claps and screams when she finished "
She came with noise canceling headphones 😉
When I was in university I was also doing ABA with a couple of kids for a few years. They were 4-5 years old, we actually had a lot of fun in the sessions and the kids would be eager to do them(things like learning to draw, learning new words for things, riding a bike...) but I distinctly remember a part of the program being to suppress stimming. One of the kids would flap his hands and one would hum. The program would be something like "while you are wearing this wrist band, you can't stim". I feel so so horrible now looking back on it, that I went along with something like that. Like what is the harm in flapping your arms or humming? If it calms you down, what's so bad about that?
I am a speech therapist and am learning more and more about ABA. While I think there is some good in what they do, the suppression of stimming and treating them like puppies with food rewards are very troubling to me, just to name a few.
I wonder if part of the problem is that those behaviors consume so much of your time that they interrupt your ability to learn language and social skills. But if I was your supervisor I wouldnt have written any such goal or plan (to reduce stereotypy), reinforcement can operate to increase language without bothering with these other behaviors in most cases.
@@benjaminschooley3108 ABA makes a fortune $$$ It's snake oil and gullible parents will pay through the nose for it.
@@JasonJohnson-rp9bm "ABA" (applied behavior analysis) is itself a scientific discipline, so it can neither be snake oil nor itself evidence based (like calling biology "snake oil"), but the treatments that are investigated within ABA are robustly supported by evidence with studies published in dozens of peer reviewed journals. Most parents couldnt afford it, that's why it is generally covered by insurance. I myself am a BCBA making the supposed "$$$" and I couldn't even afford it..
@@benjaminschooley3108 Of course you're a BCBA, you sound like you've been successfully indoctrinated like the rest of the comments section.
"Evidence-based" is just trying to camouflage abuse with the feel of science. I could say "Murder is an effective, evidence-based way to reduce marriage disputes. See? I have charts! The numbers don't lie! It works!" Is there evidence? Yes. Does that mean the hypothesis is valid? No.
If those journals are psychology related, they probably just know that autism is a cash cow for the right people and they don't want to jeopardise that. Though it's not making you personally rich? I suppose the money flows above you. (Is trickle-down economics evidence-based?)
I vividly remember having mental breakdowns as a little kid cause I couldn't understand my math problems. My mom showed a video of one of my breakdowns to my school counselor and asked that I have an evaluation done cause something clearly wasn't right, but she insisted that I was fine and that my breakdown was just me throwing a temper tantrum. I didn't get an official diagnosis for ASD, ADHD and a learning disability in math until I was 15.
I pretty much had the exact same problem and things happen to me. I new something was wrong. And my mom and I tried and no one cared.
I actually work with kids with ASD now and non of the BCBAs that I work with have any programs to suppressed. But one of them did say that if the stemming could cause harm to the kid of someone around them we would have to give them an alternative to keep them safe.
Same, and agreed. Ethical BCBAs do not plan goals that do not benefit the child.
I am grateful to say that in my 4 years in the field I have had the same experiences with all of my supervisors and as a future exam taker, I will not suppress any stereotypy unless it is dangerous or extremely disruptive to the clients' daily and functional living., then we work with a DRA. I am also training in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which my company encourages so that I can work with thoughts, or covert behaviors to aid our kiddos in their success. And our only definition of success is to help our clients become as independent as they are capable of being.
Right?! Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We don't restrict stemming unless it harms the child or others. This field is evolving and changing. Data-driven and evidence-based! We should have criticisms for ABA but making it ALL seem bad is just wrong.
@@JoshuaPfau What evidence?
My son is diagnosed ASD. As a child he was completely unmotivated by any type of reward, praise, sanction or punishment from any person. He is his own person today at the age of 26 and is starting his own business in videography.
Hope it's going while
That's awesome!
I don't know your son, but I can tell you there was motivation to do any of those behaviors, otherwise, they would not have occurred.
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks
Just because someone does something that does not mean it was done with motivation, from what I've seen you write each time you bring up motivation you're claiming people are motivated to die since they're going to die.
Motivation involves the individual wanting to do the task, not just doing the task. I've done things which I had no reason to do.
@@danielmoore4024 Haha...Daniel, buddy, that makes no sense. How do you engage in the behavior of "Dying"? Dying is not a behavior, at least not an OPERANT behavior. I am stretching my mind so hard right now to give you the benefit of the doubt. Can you explain to me how someone engages in the behavior of "dying"?
I have Asperger's syndrome and plan on studying ABA in college. We need more inside people in this field because many don't understand in the slightest how these kids feel. Ive been masking all my life and it really destroys you internally. We need to teach people on the spectrum skills while highly encouraging individuality, not push them into a box.
Well, then ABA wouldn't be the right field for you then, because ABA is based on natural science, which is focused mostly on the outside behaviors instead of getting to the roots of said behaviors. A lot of places claim to do ABA but also don't teach masking because they rightfully know as much as you do how masking emotionally harms autistic people such as myself. But behavior analysis is defined as natural science-based and acknowledging the harm of masking is social science-based, so the latter can never really go into ABA, which a lot of places claim to practice for insurance reasons and not because they're actually grounded in all the principles of ABA (which I'm glad they're not).
Hey I have the same diagnosis and I'm a speech pathology undergrad! Maybe one day we'll be collegues!
Yes. Go . And be hold..
I've been curious about this, I plan on going my masters in ABA, I have a bachelors in psychology, and I've been worried about the emotional aspect of it all. I want to be able to help with behavior but I also want to be able to help emotionally also. I feel conflicted
Go where your heart leads. There is no better teaching than on the street. Weather you belong or just a visitor..
I also want to say it's important for any other technicians, therapists, or analysts out there to consider what they could improve on instead of assuming it's others that are the problem.
This is important. Personally I think so much change could happen if people focused on understanding children instead of training children
I want to work with kids but it is so sad to me that one of the main jobs available without a degree is ABA
@@toobossforchuck Uh yea, if you wanna be a low paid behavior tech. To be an actual full practitioner you need a masters degree. Also ABA is behavioral psyc, it's really only about training because that's what parents want.
This comment can be applied to everything in life!
What about an individual on the autism spectrum with 0 functional communication, and engages in 10,000 instances of self-injurious behaviors in the form of biting and slamming his head into the wall? What would you recommend to address this?
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks you would address their specific needs. The field of ABA does not need to exist in order for that to happen.
I'm watching this because my professor uncritically taught us about ABA, but I knew from autistic people speaking out online that ABA is problematic and wanted to learn more about it. This video brought tears to my eyes. Beth and those twins were essentially tortured! As a child psychologist myself, I feel like I have an obligation to NOT continue this horrible legacy and also to educate other child psychologists (including my professor, it seems) about what actually autistic people have to say about ABA.
ZivalsNotATraitor,
Ask these questions to your professor and add some points to it, to solve this we need more people to promote neurodiversity.
Ask your professor what scientific evidence brought mankind to the conclusion that there's only one correct way to neurodevelop?
That claim is nothing but a personal idea with no scientific basis, only one correct way to neurodevelop is no more valid than the idea there's only one correct gender, race or culture.
Onto the average excuse, once again, ask your professor what scientific evidence brought mankind to the conclusion that if something is away from average it's wrong?
Being away from average making something wrong also has no scientific basis.
How could of this being based on average when there was no such thing as average until the 1840s?
In order to call a brain pathological they require a formula to determine where on the scale it crosses from normal to pathological, since there is no formula there's the evidence pathology is nothing but cultural prejudice and a neurological version of racism point out to him.
Science claims all genomes, including the human genome, are all supposed to be different, so pathology even contradicts scientific facts as well as having no scientific basis.
To extend evidence of cultural prejudice, tell your professor we have cultures who diagnose fewer than others, why is this ask him?
Then tell the professor it's because in some cultures autism traits align with cultural behaviour so the autistic people are not seen as autistic because they automatically blend in without having to mask. 150,000 people from these cultures were tested and what the researchers found is over 70% of autistic people were undiagnosed and not even suspected to be autistic by the culture.
What's good for someone is not good for everyone, what's bad for someone is not bad for everyone. So just because some think things like flapping are bad, that doesn't mean it's bad for they and the same with all other neurodevelopmental conditions.
Professors do like their students to ask questions so don't be afraid to do so.
Currently a behavioral tech. There are some good basic principles with ABA, but yes i do think about the things that can be harmful to both the children and the therapist. Sometimes i feel like ABA restricts the kids from just being kids. Its not all behavioral most times. The practice of ABA i also feel can be harmful to the therapist in that you can become detached mentally which can affect how you work and play with the kids. The practice just becomes automatic and you can become distant to the feelings of the children. Hope that made sense
A therapist can become less empathic is the word i was looking for
this helped me realize what i have to say about disagreeing with my professor! thank you
There are plenty of individuals on the autism spectrum who are for ABA. The biggest thing I hear is that "ABA stops self-stim hand flapping". That is not what ABA addresses. If a behavior does not harm the individual, others, the environment, or their learning, an ethical behavior analyst would not address it.
I’m currently a BT, and working towards becoming an Behavior Analyst and I want to say thank you. I hear you, and your words will stay with me while I learn and work with people who are neuro-divergent.
Same here.
As an ABA practitioner, we don't "deny" them their right to tapping your foot to express happiness. We teach them when is appropriate to engage in this behavior. Like if you are in a situation where people around you are sad because someone died and suddenly you tap your feet or claps your hand because you think of something happy disregarding the situation. Who be embarrassed? it's you and your family. It is our work to give our clients a functional life.
@@zoophilist19 autistic people need to stim. It doesn't matter whether you consider it appropriate or rude or not. I consider it rude if you blink when I'm in the room. I should create an industry to behavior-mod you into not blinking around people, and say it's all for YOUR benefit
If you're offended because an autistic person is clapping, that's a YOU problem and YOU need to work on YOU
@@zoophilist19 that's a YOU problem. We aren't put on this planet to please everyone else and change who we are as individuals in order to be accepted by others. If stimming bothers someone, they need to get over themselves.
I have 2 grandchildren with sensitivity issues & when I talk to other parents about what we've learned & what has helped them, I sometimes get really intense push back from other parents who seem personally offended that I'm suggesting very minor stuff. My grandson could not sleep through the night until we gave him a weighted blanket, but people will rant at me about how I'm somehow not doing the right buy searching for solutions. I'm also sober & I talk often about how what we addicts learn in sobriety, are also great lessons for non addicts & I'm reminded of that listening to this because although I'm not autistic, the man who raised me really tried to force me to be what he thought I should be, & these lessons could help those parents too.
My oldest is grown now but he was diagnosed with Aspergers. I did what helped him. He always had sensory issues, and I would try to keep him out of places/situations that would cause stress. He hated buttons, zippers, snaps, tags, etc. so I let him wear what was comfortable but also appropriate. He hated any type of transition, including changing clothes. I started changing him into his "next day" outfit before he went to bed and then when he got up in the morning (which was stressful a lot of times!) he was dressed for the day! I got a lot of flack from family and friends that I was spoiling him! We had a very traumatic birth and the first 6 months of his life were so hard for him, myself and my husband. After 6 mos, I started to figure out how to follow my mother's instincts and slowly our lives got much better. PARENTS - Please follow your tuition!!!!
BTY, my son is 29 now and is living a fulfilling and happy life and has had the same full-time job for 6 years.
Stimming is a tool used to regulate emotions and relax people who are in a stressful situation.
By teaching a child not to stimm you are taking away their only tool for coping with an environment that is very hostile towards them.
So just because hand flapping, or hair chewing or whatever the stimm is, makes you uncomfortable, you are causing an innocent person to have constant panic attacks (yes, autistic meltdowns are in fact panic attacks).
If people learned to embrace and celebrate differences rather than trying to push everyone into a neat little box of conformity, we could avoid so much unnecessary suffering.
Neurotypicals: DO BETTER!
So what can we do? I’m getting into AbA therapy for kids
@@Braddibwai
First of all seek autistic adults online and listen to their experiences, don't be defensive, it will help you learn what you should not do.
Be prepared to disobey your bosses when necessary to make the intervention child centred, if the child doesn't feel able to do what's on the plan do something else with them.
If your clinic doesn't, begin integrating the child's interest into the session as it greatly motivates them to learn due to how passionate they are about their interest.
Don't excessively use rewards, extrinsic motivators destroy intrinsic motivation.
Think about what the child is perceiving about you and what you do, only rewarding or praising them when they do what you want them to do can communicate conditional acceptance, conditional affection, and make them feel they have to earn love.
Even though you don't have bad intentions, intentions don't determine the impact and consequences.
I hope some of that helps.
@@Braddibwai let them stim, and get out of Aba therapy. Its bad
Partially true. But what if there self stimulatory behavior is causing injury or harm to them? You must intervene and reshape the stemming behavior, right? Additionally, if hand flapping, hair chewing, or whatever else their stem may be, Is a way of saying they are stressed, wouldn’t it be better to provide alternative methods of expression? Such as requesting a break in a quiet area, or headphones with music, etc.?
@@alexm1841 if the stim is harmful, you can introduce other non harmful stims.
Autistic people dont choose stim to express how theyre feeling. But, it is a sign as to how theyre feeling. We (autistic people) stim to self regulate, when we are stressed or also when we are happy or excited.
Its not better to solely rely on expressing that we want to leave a stressful area. We have to be able to stim as well, to calm ourselves. A combination of the two is good, though.
Everyone who is saying some version of "not all ABA" or "not my ABA" is missing the point. This video addresses the abusive practices that helped form ABA, the potential that ABA has for abuse, and the negative effects that those practices have on autistic people receiving them. If your ABA variant doesn't do what she mentioned, great! But classic ABA did, and some ABA still does, and some of these principles of operant conditioning and making autistic people "indistinguishable from their peers" are still being taught by the BACB. Don't handwave our concerns as "a misrepresentation" or "in the past". If you want to help autistic people, reckon with the abusive principles embedded in ABA and actively try to dismantle them.
As an ABA practitioner, we don't "deny" them their right to tapping your foot to express happiness. We teach them when is appropriate to engage in this behavior. Like if you are in a situation where people around you are sad because someone died and suddenly you tap your feet or claps your hand because you think of something happy disregarding the situation. Who be embarrassed? it's you and your family. It is our work to give our clients a functional life.
@@zoophilist19 Do you have any evidence to back that up?
@@zoophilist19
How do you determine whether it's an appropriate time to be happy or not? Is it determined by "normal"? That which satisfies the majority of people?
Well I challenge your statement of being happy when someone dies. People are dieing day after day all around the world, why is it appropriate to be happy when they die?
15 minutes ago was it even on your mind more people have died or are you disregarding their death since they don't concern you?
ABA is a reflection of cultural prejudice, it shows cultures oppress and take civil rights from people with labels. You're not a functional person yourself, it is a known fact every human being is different, so it's not you who's functional, it's who you pretend to be, functional people are fake people, hypocrites and pretenders.
You know just as well as I do that if you chose to be your authentic self you would have to face cultural prejudice as we do.
Can you recall when LGBTQ+ were called psychiatric health disorders? Why were they called psychiatric health disorders?
Because they did not fit the standard norms, because of cultural prejudice, nearly all things people call pathological/psychiatric have no scientific basis and are the result of cultural prejudice.
As a BCBA, I use to find myself saying "not all ABA". Thank you for your comment. I am constantly trying to learn more and understand other people's perspectives. We must dismantle the harmful procedures, but that doesn't mean demolish ABA entirely. If we can listen to people with bad experiences, we must listen to those who had good experiences and continue to DO BETTER!
Times change, home boy. It's silly to hate a science that has been evolving from the early days. As time progresses, ethics change. I am not pissed at doctors today for drilling holes into sick people's heads back in the 1600's to let the bad demons out.
I often wonder if instead of 'ABA' the criticism is more on discrete trial training (DTT)? Regardless, we definitely need to listen to the concerns and criticism from clients about the practices we implement in our field.
It isn't just DTT. Understanding the very sensitive sensory system--leads to understanding why many autistics find ABA stressful, and even painful. Similarly, understanding the movement challenges that are underpinned by a nervous system which does not provide adequate feedback leads to understanding that many behaviours are not intentional. Finally, understanding that autistic individuals are feeling and thinking (even nonspeaking people) leads to supports which are most helpful. When autistics cannot communicate their discomfort, trauma is often the outcome.
@@sjones8117 What proof do you have? Do you even know what DTT is? Do you know what the verbal behavior approach is? Naturalistic teaching? VB-MAPP? I'm so tired of other Autistics using these blanket statements and never being specific. All they can say is 'my stims, repetitiveness, eye contact.' Ok? That's easy to have the therapist not do. Obvi I don't do that. I LOVED my therapist as a kid! She's the reason I teach now. I'm all for ethical ABA but I'm not for vague statements like, 'It isn't just DTT.'
@@pinkqueenscookie Yes, I studied VB for more than 10 years. But, did you read what I wrote? I learned this after interacting with many autistic individuals who were subjected to ABA.
@@sjones8117 I did, and if other Autistics find school stressful maybe they should have been home schooled. Next lol people will say Autistics shouldn’t be in special education! If they are hitting people or behind it’s just a sensory issue. I really hate this world, everyone feels so entitled and sensitive. I do think Lovaas was abuse, I never experienced that because my therapist used the verbal behavior approach and naturalistic teaching. We essentially played the whole session. But then again my therapist was also a BCBA not just an RBT.
@@pinkqueenscookie I don't disagree with your that your therapist was nice--nor that she helped you. I am also not saying that autistics shouldn't be supported. They should. For many, it is helpful to be supported in ways which honour their neurological differences, as this creates a feeling of safety. (And I imagine you felt safe and respected with your therapist). I didn't mention anything about school, but definitely, some people will be more comfortable being home schooled. This doesn't mean that many can't thrive in a classroom with adequate support. When a classroom environment is not too bright and loud, for example, it is easier. Similarly, when people are kind and respectful, it is easier to feel safe. This isn't entitlement--it is being treated as a human being. We shouldn't blame autistics for having a hard time. And, if many report that a specific treatment is painful, we should believe them, rather than blame them for being too sensitive.
Chloe, you are intelligent, courageous, and absolutely adorable. Thank you for sharing!
I trained as a BT in ABA and spent two months watching the light leave my client's eyes as I told him, "No, try again." I was supposed to get him to avoid compulsive exaggeration - as if that matters! I talked to my supervisor to restructure our IEP, trying to understand what the point was. She wouldn't even hear me out. When I prompted, "Do you want to know what I did this weekend?" instead of correctly asking, "Yes, what did you do this weekend?" he would make wild and incredible guesses that often involved waterparks, puppies, and superheroes, usually together. How could anyone tell him he was wrong!? I realized that "managing behaviors" was not for me- I don't want to live in a world where people are forced to robotize their (non-harmful) speech to cater to the comfort level of another. Hope to see you and Captain Planet on the Labradoodle slip & slide next summer! (This is a comment based solely on my personal experience.)
1. Your client sounds adorable!! But your BCBA sounds like a Grey horse radish.
2. In general, I feel that when a child gets to a certain level of verbal competence (even a bit lower that what you describe) he doesn't need classic ABA... Except self management techniques which are awesome..
I mean, maybe like parent counseling for problem behaviors or finishing homework and stuff.
What they do need is:
Playing, playing, playing, and.. Playing.
Board games, outdoor games, symbolic and imagine play, and then playing those with other children their age, and mediating their interactions (perhaps while having some specific practice on pitfalls that can be noticed in these interactions)
That is SO ADORABLE! I WANNA CRY!!!
@@ZivableToAll if you're such a rare and unusual therapist who does everything so well, but everyone else is doing it wrong, maybe you shouldn't advocate for anyone to take the risk of ending up with one of the 99% of therapists who aren't doing it right? Just a thought
It definitely sounds like he received a lot of reinforcement from the reactions he would generate with those responses. And then when that behavior was placed on extinction, he had no viable alternative behavior that could access those types of reactions from people. He sounds like a jokester whose only way to make people crack up was taken away. He should have been given an alternative response that could generate reinforcement.
You should really consider DIR/Floortime, SCERTS, TEACCH, or Hanen instead.
It's so sad to hear what they used to do... At my place of work, we NEVER use adverse stimuli or use masking methods, we give them tools and ONLY praise for being amazing kids. We are watched like hawks, there would never be a moment where a child is at risk. We are supervised 24/7. I'm so sorry for the children that went/are going through a horrific time
Good on you for not getting your clients to mask! With that said, however, if you don't teach children to mask, you're not practicing ABA. Behavior analysis is defined as being influenced by natural science. Natural science is what you use for experimenting with lab rats, and when you rightfully consider the emotional consequences of autistic masking, you are going against the natural science part of behavior analysis and therefore not really practicing ABA since what you're doing now seems to be more grounded in social science.
@@necelticsox what kinds of therapies help the autistic community and avoid masking?
@@elizabethrios5622 There's therapies like OT, floortime, ect.
the point is that the entire system of aba is flawed. a few good aba therapists does not make up for the deeply-ingrained ableism and anti-autistic views that make up the foundation of aba.
if you understand the ‘acab’ movement for blm, you should also be able to understand why aba is problematic as a whole, not on an individual basis
@@ririwatermelon8681 I understand this, I posted it 4 months ago lol
Thank you for sharing your experiences and advocating for others with ASD. Your story speaks true for not just the history of ABA but also ABA therapy today. I worked as an RBT for a big ABA company, we didn't use aversives and honored a child's "no," but did discourage stemming and encouraged useless normative behaviors like eye contact. Even though our teaching was naturalistic. kids had little time in the 8hr therapy day to relax or participate in something they wanted to do. RBTs were always interrupting them or redirecting them to other activities so that they can sneak in learning opportunities. Even during lunch time, kids often worked for each bite of their food. Also, there was no curriculum to teach the kids what ASD is or what their sensory needs are and not mention about celebrating ASD and individuality. I felt that other RBTs did care and thought that ASD should be celebrated, but that is useless if it isn't expressed to the kids. One of my biggest issues is that a lot of RBTs were undertrained, myself included. So many comments below speak to how ABA changed but don't recognize how much more change needs to happen. Even if certain practices have developed new approaches, they need to stop using the ABA title. If their definition of ABA is totally different then they need a new term especially due to the painful and tragic history that ABA was born form and the occurrence of ABA therapies that still use harmful teaching methods. Why be associated with such a travesty??? There is so much love and great potential in today's analysts, consultants, and RBTs. I hope big changes happen and new supports will emerge for children and adults with ASD soon.
Do you want to share with us a list of some of the aversives that other aba therapist may use on a child with or without the parent knowing.
I agree with you that there are a lot of places that say they use ABA but don't teach children to mask or suppress, in which case they aren't really practicing ABA. There should be another name for what they're doing.
ABA is often the only thing covered by insurance so places will call themselves ABA to get insurance coverage, insurance companies need to fix this it is so messed up
And I hear that on being undertrained, I am looking for jobs and I don't have a college degree because I'm I'm neurodivergent and it is just going to take a while and in the meantime one of the few jobs with only high school diploma is doing ABA! Why did they ever decide that should be a job available to people straight out of highschool? And they have all this like, free training, sign on bonuses, great pay....but the training is six weeks max, it all feels so corrupt.
I want to work with disabled and neurodivergent kids most likely but I wish I could find jobs without being inundated by ABA job recommendations.
Some autistic people really struggle with eye contact so it shouldn’t be forced upon them.
Germany and Germans have had a bad history. Should they change their name as well? Or have they changed over time?
3:55 My mother perfectly described. As of last November, she is now 50 and, to this day, frequently tries to get me to be "normal" (she's a Behavioral Analyst and uses ABA constantly). I'm 26 and completely incapable of doing ANYTHING without fearing punishment. I've tried talking to her about this, and her response is "do you need to see a counselor", and recently decided that medicating me is best (I secretly stopped taking them as they've caused nothing but trouble and unnecessary side effects).
Needless to say, I now thoroughly believe that I'm the problem, and only me.
Even my sister, who doesn't even know ABA, states that it's no longer parenting or even disciplining anymore; she perceives it as bullying. She's not Autistic, btw.
Basically, I'm hoping for some advice or even just a little acknowledgment from someone that can relate. This is the life I am literally trapped in.
I stand by your sister, true ABA therapy is abusive.
I'm very sorry you're going through all of this. Is there anything you can do to distance yourself from her? This does not sound like a healthy relationship. I would agree with her that you might need therapy, but not because there is anything 'wrong' with you; you might need it to help heal how her abusive behavior has affected you.
zanzaboonda Sadly, there isn't a way to distance myself at present, financial reasons mainly. We (my sister and I) have tried to point out her behavior to her directly, but she apparently thinks we're trying to guilt-trip her. Oh the hypocrisy in that thought, given that she not only does it herself but also gaslights. At one point last year we got into a fight over my lack of work; I don't remember most of the argument but it ended with her saying "Either way, I win." Hurt more than I can describe.
She wasn't always like this, but I very much believe she will never be as she was before.
@@ChillJoy141 I'm so sorry to hear that. :( I hope things get better for you.
Oh sweetie!! :( I wish so bad you could get away from that!!! YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!! 100% NOT the PROBLEM! I promise you. You are beautiful and Amazing as your Natural, true, real self!!
I've been diving down the rabbit hole that is ASD, the cause, the symptoms, and the treatment as well reading memoirs written by women who weren't diagnosed until their 30s or 40s. It's been illuminating to say the least. I'm still waiting for a proper evaluation (I had to push my doctor to submit a referral) but truly believe I'm on the spectrum as well. It sure would explain a ton of my experiences growing up and behaviors/responses that make up my life today.
It would also explain how you were able to hyperfocus on all of that info about ASD :) I hope you were able to get a referral to a dr who knows what to look for!
Kristin did you ever get diagnosed?
As a psychologist who is on the BCBA track (I honestly didn’t know what it was when I started), professionals on here are being ableist. You need to listen to the autistic community.
I have worked as an ABA therapist and no there are not a couple of bad seeds or a couple of bad ABA companies. There are a LOT- enough to make a lasting impact on autistic children (and all the ones I’ve been in are toxic despite most people on here saying theirs is ‘amazing’ and ‘beneficial’ for their kids). In the field there is a reason why there is a high turnover rate. these companies do not hire trained people to become behavior therapists. They hire who they can take.
Some BCBAs are good but most I’ve met are super stringent that they made me wear a buzzer to praise kids every two minutes instead of naturally and it was very intrusive even to me.
The autistic community is telling you what to fix in ABA (or totally get rid of and build anew) and we should listen instead of being defensive. This reminds me of when I say “autistic” but the only ones who seem to be offended are neurotypical professionals and parents when the majority of autistic people want to be referred to this way (not all but most so always ask). Autism “treatments” are dominated by neurotypicals. Listen to the community you are serving, fix the system and don’t act like you’re their saviors.
The timer used to reinforce a child every 2 min is a time based schedule of course over time you will fade it so it becomes more natural. Remember ABA is a systematic approach to behavior it’s just demonstrating how behavior works. Hopefully you will see in your course work about thinning the reinforcement schedule in order to fade the praise out slowly in order to reflect the natural environment.
kiki131,
I'm grateful you support listening and looking through an autistic perspective as well as the neurotypical perspective.
Ever since I were 9 years old I became skeptical about the medical model and have researched Autism for over 20 years. I'll share just one therapy I see as dangerous.
Eye contact therapy.
If we think of people with social anxiety they make a very limited time of eye contact because eye contact causes them anxiety. Forcing autistc people who don't make eye contact to make eye contact increases their anxiety. As you know our brains tell our bodies to do things for the sake of our survival, so resisting what the brain tells the body to do is resisting survival.
We must always be skeptical of the medical model.
@@danielmoore4024 yes eye contact therapy is very intrusive. As someone whose culture is non-Western, I do not use much eye contact especially when talking to someone with authority. I have been working on that to go to interviews and engage in social situations and it is very difficult and hard to remember to maintain eye contact as a neurotypical. So it seems cruel to do so to autistic children. I think many BCBAs and ABA therapists should consider a child’s social and emotional functioning more in their practice. Many that I’ve seen do not and only cater to parents or data monitoring.
Oh my gosh thank you for saying this! I once took my son to an autism center and quickly pulled him back out. I told them he gets enough pressure to be "fixed" at school. I brought him here for HIS needs, not to adjust him to fit everyone else's needs.
I read a book by an autistic teen girl recently that was way more helpful than any treatment center. She gave tips like developing a sensory emergency kit. She is very senstive to and accosted by certain smells, so one of the items her kit contained was aromatherpy oils that she does like the smell to and she uses those to block the other smells out. See THAT is a piece of applicable and useful advice. This is the kind of info people on the spectrum need. Things that help US cope.
If you help US cope with the real challenges and problems we face every day it might reduce the amount of meltdowns and thus there's less need to 'fix' our behaviors.
I mean gosh we don't run around trying to train those in wheelchairs to appear to be standing because it's "socially appropriate", why the heck do we try to force autistics to make eye contact. We teach people to accept the differences of people in wheelchairs. In the same way people need to learn that autistics just don't like to make eye contact as much, get over it.
@@carla8478 there's a group on fb called autism inclusivity...i think you might like it. It's designed so that (nt or nd) parents of autistic kids can talk to autistic adults, particularly autistic people who have extensive knowledge about the kinds of support autistic kids/adults need. I'm autistic and don't have kids but it's been a great place for me to share and learn
Everything is good in moderation. ABA is all around us. Large part of education system is built on ABA. Most of what we do as parents is ABA. Everyday interactions with outside world run on ABA principles. When you subject an individual to a 40 hours a week of systematic ABA therapy on top of all other ABA we have to deal with daily, you cross any reasonable levels of moderation. And as a consequence, you get CPTSD in adults.
bravo
..but consequences (reinforcing or punishing), don't disappear just because you walk out of a clinic, they just become unsystematic, and potentially your caregivers can contrive an unreasonable environmental setting that diminishes your ability to develop tolerance for demand, loss, etc. Part of the reason 40 hours is desirable is not because all 40 hours are devoted toward drills (or whatever you imagine is happening), but to build in leisure, play, and reinforcing activity.
@@benjaminschooley3108 Yup. Literally every little behavior we do at any given time is interacting with the environment and is coming into contact with changes that will either reinforce or punish said behavior over time. ABA is awesome
@@pardonmyfrench4760 That's your opinion.
I’ve watched this so many times and I’m so happy every time I do! You articulate this soooo well!
@Dr Yuching Lee shut up
Thank you for sharing your experience and your insight. I am a BCBA and I try my very best to use the time I have with my clients to reach them skills that will help them in their lives. For our older kiddos (anyone above 5) who are able to talk we like to invite them in to identify goal they have for themselves and things they want to work on. The goal is not for someone to appear neurotypical. The goal is for their life to be improved in a way that is meaningful to them. Keep sharing your message! It is changing the way people think of children with ASD!
@@JasonJohnson-rp9bm but then aren’t you saying autism defines that child if you place autism first? If you say children with ASD, then you define that they’re children first
Other uses of identity first: Left-handed person (not person with left-handedness), careers (mechanic, not person who practices mechanics), deaf people (more of a preference within their community), race (Sudanese person, not person from Sudan), age (teenager, not person in their teens).
Uses of person first: more globalised subgroups such as people with disability or people of colour, illnesses and mental conditions that don't have the same bearing on one's identity (people with cancer/diabetes/depression, more recently trending, people who menstruate (to be more respectful to trans people, not people with transgenderism.)
@@JasonJohnson-rp9bm thank you Jason! Your comment really sparked my interest and I read some great articles written by autistic people about this topic. I really appreciate you pointing this out!
@@vanesnickerdoodle6707
As someone on The Autism Spectrum, I prefer to be referred to as an "autistic person."
Person with Autism = Person + Autism
as if our neurological development is a disease, The National Autistic Society, the leading Autism charity in the UK, declares people on The Autism Spectrum see Autism as a fundamental aspect of their identity as I see it part of mine.
If you saw Elon Musk say Autism is a disease when he spoke of his Neurolink, newspaper articles turned to The National Autistic Society for evidence autistic people prefer to refer to themselves as "autistic people" and the remainder are not bothered.
Here's what I find interesting... ABA is a psych paradigm that focuses on the application of data-driven study of behavior. It has SO MANY applications, but somehow it gets relegated to the treatment of autism. But the application can and SHOULD be used for organization management, personal behavior modification, classroom instruction, rehabilitation of all kinds... so many applications. But again, understanding and using these principles often feels like a big responsibility. They can be easily used for abuse and manipulation.
@Claire Young Yes, I agree. All operant behavior has intention. You don't think?
@Claire Young Communication involves a speaker (or communicator) and a listener. Self stimulatory behaviors are still behaviors, but continue to occur without social consequence
@Claire Young communicating to whom?
@Claire Young lol. Can't communicate unless there's a listener
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks
Concerning screaming in the forest, they're communicating to anyone who can hear them.
Not sure how ABA works outside the UK but we focus on teaching new skills, improving quality of life and ways to communicate.
We only analyse and try to positively replace behaviours that are self harming or harm others.
For example if an autistic child is banging their head into a wall causing serious injury we try to find out why and observe warnings or triggers by communicating and trying to understand the individual, family and environment.
For a client I worked with it- turns out there's too much noise so we alter the environment to be less noisy and teach the client how to communicate when it's too noisy, so they don't hurt themselves.
I taught this non-verbal child to imitate talking with their hands. By analysing their behaviour we also recognised when the noise was becoming too much (I.e visible distress).
Just an autistic woman who graduated in psychology and is compassionate about working with autistic young people. I'm sorry to hear about how ABA is used elsewhere and I hope it stops.
Exactly. That's how we do it in the US!
@@filipeflower what's that supposed to mean? Are you making a wide, sweeping generalization about a group of people living in the same geographical area?
That's exactly how we use it here. We don't even say "no". We give an alternative behavior. So for example, if a client throws a toy... we will model how to play with that particular toy and say "you can play with the toys like this" or if a client shows aggression towards another client during play sessions, we might shake their hand or high five and say "this is using nice hands with our friends".
@@alibobali4032 Wait, what's this about?
@@st-fe3je
ABA Therapy has been proven bias by the behaviourists' publications.
By ABA using diverse techniques on diverse individuals makes ABA subjective, they cannot generalise subjective results meaning they do not have objective evidence.
Published in 2021 by Psychological Bulletin
Abstract
The “replication crisis” describes recent difficulties in replicating studies in various scientific fields, most notably psychology. The available evidence primarily documents replication failures for group research designs. However, we argue that contingencies of publication bias that led to the “replication crisis” also operate on applied behavior analysis (ABA) researchers who use single-case research designs (SCRD). This bias strongly favors publication of SCRD studies that show strong experimental effect, and disfavors publication of studies that show less robust effect. The resulting research literature may unjustifiably inflate confidence about intervention effects, limit researchers’ ability to delineate intervention boundary conditions, and diminish the credibility of our science. To counter problems of publication bias in ABA, we recommend that journals that publish SCRD research establish journal standards for publication of noneffect studies; that our research community adopt open sharing of SCRD protocols and data; and that members of our community routinely publish systematic literature reviews that include gray (i.e., unpublished) research.
Love, love, love this talk. NT therapists and parents, please listen to her. It is a human right issue to be alloved to be who you are, express your authentic self and use inherit coping mecanism. Love us for who we are not for what you can mold us to be. Look at the risk data!!!!
Amen to that
As a therapist, I can see in my own work how ABA has the potential to be conducted unethically, and I think it is incredibly important to constantly assess where we are in the field in terms of the efficacy and ethics (particularly not teaching masking and completely prohibiting the use of aversives) of our methods. I am happy to work in my center because there is a strong sentiment of not “treating autism”, but rather teaching children basic classroom skills (basic literacy, fine motor skills, pattern recognition) and risk aversion in a way that is based on developmental and educational psychology principles and is more individualized and better equipped to their needs than a classroom setting. I honestly think this is the ideal method of any kind of “treatment” (I don’t like the word in this case) and one that all ABA centers should adopt. As a parent, I would be confident in putting my child in our program if it fit their needs.
Matthew W,
Are you actual ABA or just call your work ABA for insurance?
That's one of the problems, people do not know which interventions are ABA.
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and Occupational Therapy claim to be ABA for insurance, not they actually are ABA.
The leading autism charity in my country, The National Autistic Society, greatly protest against today's ABA and promote PBS, Positive Behaviour Support.
Google "National Autistic Society" and type in their search box "ABA" and you'll read they don't support ABA as in actual ABA.
It's alarming that recently the "American Psychological Association" caught ABA practicing publication bias and that over 80% of cases sited in the top 8 journals are Conflict Of Interest.
Once the APA found out they made some new rules to protect other researchers from publication bias misleading them.
I think the biggest problem with the ABA industry, is that it's self regulated at state levels. And as a result there's a lot of abuse that slips through the cracks. I can understand when behavioural intervention is necessary, like if a person has self-harm tendencies or dangerously aggressive tendencies. But these are the outliers, rather than the majority. I learned recently in Toronto of a family who recently had their kid diagnosed as autistic, and almost immediately they were hounded into putting him through ABA therapy, even though he was showing no harmful traits.
I totally understand that there's a lot of therapists who want to do good. And at the same time, I do understand the frustration of many autistic people who feel like their cries for abuse are being ignored. What needs to happen: The ABA industry needs to undergo a Senate Inquiry, in the hopes of finding ways to reduce harmful behaviours, while at the same time; ensuring that abuse victims are properly compensated and the harm they went through never happens again.
And yes, I do believe government intervention is necessary, because if abusers are setting the rules; then of course they're going to be called out as abusive.
@Accra Terminal agency Take your snake oil poison and shove it!
Autism doesn't have a cure.
And more importantly: Autism doesn't need a cure.
Absolutely, this is such an important discussion! I am going to school for my MA in ABA and this is exactly what I will be avoiding. In my sessions and in my coaching I have never suppressed stims, forced eye contact, forced feeding programs, anything. we have to remember that our clients the vast majority of the time are children under age 5. If there is no medical or physical necessity to intervene, DON’T.
I'm doing the same and happy to see others joining who feel the same!
Excellent fearless talk. I have heard it said that the verbal can adults on the spectrum leave behind the nonverbal. You have great courage to use your voice to leave no one behind being punished in the ABA for being themselves.
I want to say. As someone studying, working towards my Masters in ABA, there have been times where some of the criticisms (especially before enrolling) and videos/stories such as this made me feel I was willingly entering into a field plagued with unethical persons hurting learners perhaps unintentionally but because of ignorance, lack of empathy, of something more nefarious. One: For the BCBA's and RBT's in the chat who have validated Chloe' & her experience, thank you, I thank her for sharing this difficult history and fallout. I am reassured by many in the thread that although there a lot of work to be done, I am on the right track. As someone who may or may not also be on spectrum, who has struggled with ND throughout my life both internally and from external actors, the career I have begun to craft for myself is immensely importantly personal, and I appreciate so much hearing from those who are a similar journey. -nick
My only problem is the blind hatred. Many good, accredited practices do not engage in any of what is mentioned here. I do not deny it is occurring, but I feel sorry that the practices they've got services from were subpar. I am grateful to say the practice I work for is very good. It was founded by BCBA's who witnessed cases such as the ones mentioned here, and vowed to do better when their practice opened.
@@BOBOFSAGGET ugh shut up, you’re not a victim of the justified distrust of your field.
Great talk!! And so engaging, I can't focus on things very well sometimes but this talk I could not stop watching. So clear and compassionate and informative, thank you for sharing your story, I can tell by the comments it is making a difference❤ there are tons of therapies out there (I found a document released last year of all of them that had been proven to help and ABA was not on there and there were so many that sounded so good to help with specific struggles an autistic kid might have instead of trying to make them someone they're not, but then I can't find the document anymore, but I assure you it was very long!) but I think they are hard to find because ABA has taken over and is the only thing covered by insurance most of the time
I want to work with disabled and nuerodivergent kids so they can have someone who understands, I'm not autistic but I have ADHD and other neurodivergences, but it is so hard to figure out which career path will be most ethical and feasible for me as someone who struggles with school
Have you got any further with your career pathway? I feel like I’m in a similar place to you
That's surprising. I have a wealth of information right here saying how effective ABA is. (by the way, you don't just do ABA...ABA has many different interventions and components to it)
Check out "The National Clearinghouse on Autism Evidence and Practice". It's great stuff!
We've resisted getting ABA therapy for our daughter, and this makes me feel like we made the right choice.
Old outdated view of ABA. Please read my comment.
@@marcelaguimoye4944 How does your comment prove anything?
Behind every behavior is a feeling, and behind every feeling is a need (I'm paraphrasing from memory). Meet the need, change the behavior. Read up on Adlerian psychology, which has been very helpful with my autistic children once I learned about it.
@@Segwyne What's that?
As a parent of a 4 years old autistic child, all I can say is don't make decisions based on what people say here. I would encourage you to give ABA a try. Your child will tell you in different ways if it is working well for them or not. Not all autistics are same and not all ABAs are same. If you try for few months and ur kid hates it, pull him out. But what if it's the other way. My son goes to ABA 3 days and daycare 2 days. All i can say is the day he goes to ABA u can see the excitement in his face. Don't go by what aba principles are, but by visiting the place and observing what they do. Our AbA does ot speech behavior and many more and we have seen the differences.
That was very well said. Thank you for this information and for doing your best to create a conversation about this issue. I've been trying to find the right psychology program to go into to help those with austism in the healthiest ways, specifically girls and women- because I am very aware of the detrimental mental health concerns masking/camouflaging can have on a person- as I have experienced it first hand. It's difficult to want to go into a field that is meant to help people, and find that is not always the case. I hear you, and I am working on encouraging neurodiversity as well. So again, thank you for creating/adding to this much needed conversation. Also, I think it's so funny how so many people on the spectrum love Harry Potter. That has always been my special interest I guess you could call it as well! 😋
Hey I'm also a neurodiverse person going into a helping field for autism, I'm a speech pathology major! I'm just saying I believe in you, you can do it!
Her alarmism
Is a construct mention
Netflix
Please
Scot miles
Talking therapy
Monkey tree
Mc get a gun
Chris
Chris Smith
Cs
We will talk Kingsgate park yate posse crew shall we
References phscology
28 club
Chris a son
Generation
Born from slacer6
Hidden but tricky truck
Capitalism and foot
I was touched by the video. Autistic people are human being like us and they need to be heard and helped come out of themselves. We need to love them and treat them the same way we treat others.
You make us sound like aliens...
"come out of themselves"? like gestures and verbal talk? why?
This really breaks my heart, I can’t imagine what some of these people have had to go through. And I was in line to become a BT recently so I decided to do some research to see if I would ACTUALLY be helping people. And I was so excited to help change people’s lives but then I found out that I would only be adding fuel to the fire. I felt awful realizing I was in line for this, o can’t imagine what it was/is like for the people who were and are in it
Stormy Drain Pipe,
That was a good choice to do the research first, ABA has changed its methods but the aftereffects and underlying intention of making autistic people indistinguishable from their peers has remained the same.
They claim ABA is evidence based, I can assure you it's certainly not proven by what it results in.
They do no longitudinal studies and we see the "success" only lasts for a limited time.
The Department of Defense did a study concerning how many hours per week should be done, the DOD found with consistency there's no correlation between progress in learning and how many hours.
The evidence they say they have is based on very small samples, their "evidence" is extremely weak and inconsistent.
You probably know about something involving culture called the "BITE Model," ABA is proven to be a culture and fits the criteria of the BITE Model.
Even though their practices don't involve punishment anymore, they are compliance based so they are continually teaching children to comply disallowing them to be themselves.
The most disgraceful part is ABA is officially fraud.
Even though autism is a neurological condition, they treat it as a behavioural condition while intentionally neglecting all neurological knowledge we have from MRI studies and the autistic brain so they can exercise their behavioural techniques for their science instead, autistic children are still being despitefully used as accessories of experiments resulting in physical, mental and psychological abuse.
ABA claims they're the best at treating autism, they are not even taught about autism and they have no more than one month's training, they are essentially working out of their scope thinking behavioural techniques can alter neurocognitive functioning as well as behaviours, that is officially fraud.
@@danielmoore4024 I really appreciate the information! I still want to help in any way I can and do something and I’m currently in the process of researching how to do so. Unfortunately I’m hitting a dead end and I’m not really getting anything in terms of jobs or institutions that I can join to help.
@@kyleracree2055
In 2023 ABA is going to ban certification from all countries outside of the US and Canada.
Just like on autism research teams, we need people who support the autistic community to enter the system to do the job from the inside since they won't listen to outsiders.
Autistic people infiltrated the autism research teams and corrected so many false assumptions, with autism being judged by its appearance and not by how it's experienced we knew nonautistic people were full of flawed assumptions.
Like when it comes to communication autistic people have always noticed that it all works in both directions, not just the autistic one who misunderstands. An autistic man Dr. Damian Milton got on the autism research team and made what's now "the double empathy problem."
Just like we have autistic people and those who support us on research teams correcting things, we need to do the same with treatments. So if I were you I would enter the ABA system and correct it from the inside, that's why so many autistic people are trying to become ABA, I've seen them share on forums they want to become workers so they can correct things. ABA workers in these comment sections don't seem to listen to the autistic community, if anyone boasts about evidence share the fact with them that what they claim to be evidence is all based on the result of 1 person, that's how small their tests samples are, just 1 person.
@@danielmoore4024 I had a thought resembling that. I didn’t know if that would prove effective but you’re right, there’s only one way to change what is and that’s by getting involved directly and making that change. Thank you for your time and input, you’ve got a wealth of information at your fingertips and while I’m sorry it might’ve been exhausting to inform someone who was clueless at first, I must thank you for it all. Sincerely.
@@kyleracree2055
I'll like to share with you something which happened today that demonstrates how immoral and cruel today's ABA is.
On Facebook there's a community ran by ABA. In this community there's parents asking questions about autism and their children's behaviour. I answered the questions of these parents giving scientific explanations by talking about the neurological differences that cause the behaviours.
They claimed they give 45 hrs per week therapy, I pointed out 45 hrs therapy + 35 hrs school = 80 hrs per week, a child doing two full-time jobs worth of work and how much damage that can do to a child's health.
The neurological differences in neurocognitive functioning I shared openly exposed how harmful treating a neurological condition as a behavioural condition is. It became easy for the parents to see today's ABA still physically, mentally and psychologically hurts autistic children. As an outcome of this exposure of describing a neurological condition neurologically, I were expelled from their ABA community for answering questions about autism pointing out a behaviour cannot be understood scientifically while neglecting scientific evidence of the autistic brain proving ABA is not scientific evidence based. One parent asked why his child doesn't make eye contact, I shared the neurological differences that cause this and I were kicked out, they could see if more people had this knowledge about autism fewer people would require ABA.
ABA workers feeling so convicted by scientific evidence from other scientific fields shows they know they're not scientific.
Some doctors still use and apply methods that have become outdated and can harm patients, psychiatrists often prescribe more and more medication, upping dosage rather than gradually decreasing it, creating a high dependence on medication. The point is these fields have shady areas, as does ABA. The beginning of ABA was a rocky start, no one disagrees, but such is true for psychology in general and medicine. ABA does not follow these principles anymore. The focus of ABA now is to provide interventions with the client’s interest and perspective at the forefront. We don’t punish, we reinforce. We don’t stop behaviors from occurring, we replace them with functional versions. Stimming behaviors are no longer ethically targeted unless they significantly impair the client’s daily living. Instead, we teach moments and settings where the behavior can occur safely, for the client’s benefit.
I have been working with the ASD community since 2018, have been an rbt practicing ABA for 2 years now, and am studying to become a BCBA for context. The treatments and protocols she described have never been used in any of the settings I have worked in. ABA is the primary treatment for individuals with ASD(it's the best we have for treating ASD.) The kids we work with are nonverbal, lack basic skills(feeding, dressing, speaking, toileting), and some are heavily dependent on others for their most essential needs. There is a lot of nuance to this topic! but like many things being discussed online it is painted as either good or bad. Should we let kids stem if it doesn't harm themselves or others? absolutely! should we do nothing for kids that are falling years behind their peers? Absolutely NOT! Too often the "baby is being thrown out with the bath water." ABA is a field that is and always has been evolving and changing( just like every other field of science btw.) I see kids get the help they need and grow every day at my job, surrounded by people that care, and that just want the best for them. This is the best we have for the time being and will continue to get better. If you have a better idea I support your efforts to bring about meaningful change. What she said however is not anything I haven't already heard. painting ABA as the enemy will cause actual harm to kids and their families if this deters them from receiving the treatment they need.
ABUSER
ABA is one of the primary causes of the high rate of suicide in Autistics. It's done nothing to improve the lives of autistics in the long term,. All you are is part of a scam bilking parents and the insurance industry. .
@o leonard gaslighting, plenty of testimonials out there indicating how aba has helped them in their lives. You have no reputable source to indicate aba causes suicides to increase
@@benjaminschooley3108 Try using Google, you lazy bum.
I have never agreed with anything more in my life! ABA is constantly evolving. A lot of the issues she brought up were from YEARS ago. The purpose of ABA is not to "normalize" a child. It is to enhance their independence and/or quality of life. ABA has been reformed and will continue to reform. I think it is a really bad look for her to discourage people from seeking ABA therapy. I respect her for talking about her struggles with it and pointing out the awful way that ABA started, but I wish she did her research on how ABA was reformed and how it is used today.
Aww I feel like I can relate, this is how I feel with trichotillomania. As a child my mom took me to counsellors trying to cure me and make me stop pulling out my hair. And the counsellors would constantly try to do things to change that behavior and I remember telling them I have no interest in stopping, its not causing me harm, I accept that I do it and they refused to take that as an answer. Honestly counselling certainly did more harm to me than good.
I understand trichotillomania is much different than autism, but I must say I do certainly resonate with what she is describing in feeling like you have to hide yourself and pretend to be something youre not and how damaging that IS.
Lots of us (*autistic people) have BFRB too! You're totally right, many(?) therapists just refuse to accept people's values being different than theirs and insist on working on what they think is important. I had a therapist who refused to listen to me over and over, then when I told her I need a therapist who's knowledgeable about autism she told me that the most important thing in selecting a therapist is rapport and the relationship. Looooool. Lady I can't stand you, what are you talking about!
I don't know that these two situations are comparable. Dermatillomania and trichotillomania can be extremely physically risky to the body. I've caused myself severe and debiliitating infections with the former, and have heard of people requiring hospitalization and nearly dying from it as well. After a few years of work, I'd say I'm about 90% recovered from the disorder--no more dangerous infections. I also personally appreciate not looking like a meth head, but that bonus only applies if you care what people think.
Hello. I’m studying to become a BCBA, and I’m learning about these controversies with ABA, and feel like quitting this career. I am taking my first class to become a BCBA and this is my first encounter with ABA. I really don’t know what to do. I feel very discouraged by these videos.
Thank you for your courage.
I'm in this field and I have never had to stop someone from tapping their foot or stimming. ABA has come such a long way and I agree it used to be harmful. But I've taught children how to stop biting themselves until they bleed. I've taught kids how to stop slamming their heads into corners. Yes there are TERRIBLE Aba companies but there are also good ones who see the kids for who they are and genuinely help them.
I am a developmental therapist/special educator in the field for 20+ yrs and it is still extraordinarily harmful. Great wonderful! You've been taught how to stop a child from banging their head in the corner or biting their hand until they bleed, then what? Moreover, precisely how? By withholding, but ignoring but implementing the environmental contingencies that will reinforce and reward positive versus negative behaviors? Guess what? The child banging head in corner and biting hand until it bleeds does NOT need to be replaced with more "rewarding positive behaviors." It needs to be lessened by understanding and addressing, that is from an evidence-based developmental relationship biopsychosocial perspective the enormity of stress factors (endocrine and limbic system, the hypothalamic, pituitary adrenal axis, cortisol and other related stress induced hormones fueled by the child's autonomic nervous system (his/her sympathetic nervous system mobilized for fight/flight defense responses). There is the NECESSITY of focusing on the science of engagement and feelings and beginning to cultivate for that child the conditions of underlying feelings of safety and calm (not by extrinsic robotic dog training of rewards and aversives)
@@Neilgs What’s a developmental therapist? I googled it and it seems like a fake job
@@pinkqueenscookie I managed to google some results on it. Maybe it differs between regions?
@@dusty3219 No, I could find info on it but no job information. :-3 Every time I look it up is ABA...or OT, speech, audiologists, psychologist. But no jobs that say or are close to the description of a developmental therapist who isn’t a doctor.
@@pinkqueenscookie at least one of them
Speaking as an RBT/Future BCBA, I have only interrupted stims when learning and attempting to communicate but if my kids aren’t responsive yet I allow them regulation time on THEIR terms. I’m pursuing this career because I value the kids/young adults I work with and want to give them as pleasant of a childhood as I can. I love teaching coping, regulation, communication and harmful behavior reduction
Your amazing 🥰🥰🥰🥰🙏🙏🙏 well said love well said!
I’m training to be a rbt & im happy Im seeing what autistic adults feel about this therapy from their experience, I wish to not change children with autism but try to help them cope with their emotions in a different way especially if they’re self harming but if the behavior isn’t harming them or anyone around them then I just want them to understand those emotions and how to regulate them. If anyone with autism is reading this please give me your opinions
Unfortunately, it's not really up to you on how to conduct session. The BCBA comes up with the behavior plan and as an RBT, your job is to follow that to a T. You will 10000% get fired if you just conduct session how you think it should be conducted or implement plans you think should be implemented. So before doing that, talk with the BCBA about your ideas and most likely, he/she will listen.
ABA just like other interventions can be harmful if misused. I've encounter colleagues who were bad, and I encounter colleagues who are good. But just like what she said, it's important to start a conversation. I encounter supervisors who uses punishment and I openly voice out my disagreement of their methods. ABA can do so many wonders if done right (ethically and morally). However, I must say not everyone with autism fits for ABA. And it's not all the time that it's just ABA that will work, sometimes other interventions do work for some cases. The thing about providing intervention for our client is we should think what's best for the client as a person, not just what's the specific techniques or therapy is all about. I never forced my clients to maintain eye contact when talking, I do however encourage them to look when someone called them. I never forced them to stop their stimming unless it's too disruptive, and most of the time I help them replace it or use it in a more functional one.
ABA does work, ABA can be harmful, ABA alone is not perfect.
But dear parents, listen to your children and don't just accept everything that you're ABA provider is saying, ask questions. Also, ask questions to other parents or other providers. It's not a one size fits all type of intervention. In fact, intervention doesn't work that way.
the point is that the entire system of aba is flawed. a few good aba therapists does not make up for the deeply-ingrained ableism and anti-autistic views that make up the foundation of aba.
if you understand the ‘acab’ movement for blm, you should also be able to understand why aba is problematic as a whole, not on an individual basis
@@ririwatermelon8681 no, I don't know the acab movement, what's that?
@@NN-bk3rn ACAB = All Cops Are Bad.
In literal terms, this is obviously an exaggeration because there are surely police officers who go to work everyday just trying to keep their communities safe and actually protect and serve as they should. But the presence of a few good apples doesn’t erase the problematic foundation of officers and the overwhelming harm that police brutality has on marginalized communities.
This is tough and sobering to hear for me personally as an ABA provider myself, but it makes complete sense. No matter how great of a therapist as I may be, I’m not improving the overall industry of ABA by being the exception. The issue is institutional, not individual. So the solution must be the same
I have been working as BT for over a year. I am at my limit and decided to quit. DTT is very draining for both the therapist and the child. To reach the goal and conduct all of the lessons in 3 hours, we get really stressed and drained. I feel like I lost all empathy too. I don't feel anything when a child is screaming, crying, throwing objects or self harming. I just block and ignore as I am supposed to. If I was in their shoes, I would be so pressured. But what kept me going was the belief that I am contributing to their future.
That was amazing! thank you 👏 for sharing my son is a newly diagnosed toddler and I am looking for all the information and experiences I can. This really helps me.
BT’S also help redirect self-injurious/ self-inflicting behaviors that children with autism exhibit (common mostly with no-verbal clients who can not talk to convey pain, hunger, or needs. Most of the time the redirection of those bx’s are inflicted upon the “undergraduate” student therapist who yes amongst taking notes and collecting data (Hence: Applied Behavioral Analysis). This is not a job for the weak of heart.
use identity first language -
@@elijahschwarz5829 Yeah, what they should do is teach them other ways of regulating emotions, showing them different methods of stimming that isn't harmful to them
@@birdtabloid1704 Parents want an easy fix so they do things that "seem" to work at the moment but cause behavioral problems or suicidal behavior in young adulthood. One can't "train" a child not to be suicidal or not to have emotional problems. Building self-esteem in a child takes empathy and work. All ABA does is teach emotionally troubled autistic children that they aren't allowed to have personal boundaries and aren't allowed to say no.
Thank you.
@@elijahschwarz5829 I know. I never went to ABA therapy, I'm not even diagnosed but looking back at my childhood now there are definitely signs that i was completely different and i learnt to mask because, I was the second child in the family, The only girl so far so nobody really suspected i was different and coming from a south Asian family, the main thing they do to discipline their children is throw harmful words towards them and hit them and punish them . This isn't a problem anymore in my family but that's the abuse that was mostly placed on me since birth because i didn't function like everyone else, i was by far the most difficult child in the family and through this abuse i learnt that i need to act like others. I would say this is quite similar to the therapy even though nobody knew anything. my mask only started when i started school because before that i only had my older cousin and I didn't want to try to be like him. Now around 13 years later I'm realizing all of this, and I'm trying to pull together all information I have about ASD, all of my symptoms and things I do and did to contribute to it because i know if i just mention it I will be completely dismissed and will just be told I'm looking for attention.
Sorry that was very long I just needed to rant.
I am so sorry that you had such negative experiences. I used to be a RBT and I'm debating becoming a BCBA. As a RBT, my agency never used ABA to encourage kids to be someone they're not. We mainly focused on Discrete Trial Training to decrease unsafe behaviors, such as physical aggression and self-injurious behaviors. We always encouraged harmless stimming. We also never punished kids for answering questions wrong, but calmly corrected them and encouraged them to keep trying. We put heavy focus on positive reinforcement. Our goal was never to make kids "normal," but to help them have successful, happy lives. In fact, we even had an outpatient therapy department to address more serious mental health concerns, because that is totally real! Again, I am so sorry that you had such a negative experience with ABA.
Thats great that your group has innovated to a point that you can support us. Our big problem is with the central ABA system and it's main message. Yes of-shoot groups can become more supportive, but the main message of central aba is to suppress any "socially inept" behaviors such as stimming. I'm glad that you and your team have done better
@@annellewellyn7118 You do realize that’s not the BCBAs fault most of the time right? I have had parents legit say please help my child look more normal such a stopping stimming. I’ve convinced some of them it’s ok if they aren’t hurting themselves or others but I’ve LOST clients saying no. Parents want their kids to be ‘normal’ and some people need money and don’t have the luxury to say no.
@@pinkqueenscookie
And that's just one thing in the ABA system that needs fixing, ABA should not be allowing parents to despitefully use ABA as an "Autism Conversion Therapy."
If ABA is going to allow this ABA is still just as responsible for all the abuse proving autistic adults correct that ABA is an abusive organisation.
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS. Bless you 🙏🏻 I was just looking into ABA and this was so helpful
Good video! Thank you, miss. After this video, I've realized that there are lots of people very different from me, and I should be okay with it all, not be sad about it. I should not also try to control everyone into becoming something else just because I want it that way.
Wow. Is really interesting hear both sides .thanks you so much Chloe ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️you are the best..
Thank you so much for this! Really, truly insightful.
"If we do not *all* succeed, we do not succeed at all!"
~Chloe Everett
Oh my goodness! Now i can see how we often end up misdiagnosed with borderline or other personality disorders. I had identity crisis too, and what is said here totally makes sense as to why. I hope medical professionals start recognizing identity disturbance does not always equal personality disorder.
@Dr Yuching Lee I used those herbs and I got more autism and herpes
@Dr Yuching Lee you lie. How come nobody has ever heard of you or your miraculous herbs? If they free kids from autism, you would think that more people would know about it. It's funny how you have to spam the same message over and over, shouldn't the results speak for themselves? Why aren't you on the news for this miracle herb? You are some quack with 10 followers on CZcams. Nobody knows who you are. That's funny.
@Dr Yuching Lee Prove it.
@Dr Yuching Lee It's spelled "proof". And it's already been proven that Autism isn't really a disease, therefore, your claim doesn't prove anything.
@Accra Terminal agency Can you prove it?
As someone that is going to be certified soon in this field, I want to say thank you. Thank you for being vulnerable and speaking for those who may not be able to send this message over in the way that they know best. As I join a new generation of treatment facilitators, I will strive encourage neurodiversity and promote autonomy in the healthiest way that we both can fathom. Lectures like these are so important to bridge the gap. At the end of the day, what we do is meant to improve the better welfare of this community, if we have to go back to the drawing board, let’s do that.
You really may wanna consider getting to DIR/Floortime, SCERTS, TEACCH, or Hanen.
I will also be certified soon and I completely agree with you. ABA has gone a long way since Lovaas, we have a great and thorough ethics code, but we can still make progress and make our field better! That's why discussion is so important. Thank you for sharing your vision.
@@tulliasychrareucci5476 Causing trauma in autistic people is actually how ABA is supposed to work since it only focuses on external behavior.
@@tulliasychrareucci5476
If you're qualified to help autistic people prove it to me by telling me a minimum of 10 neurological differences of the autistic brain.
If you can't, that proves ABA is fraud for working out of its scope, if your services are going to treat people with neurodiverse conditions at least learn neurodiversity and their conditions. Otherwise you are frauds.
Because of your ignorance of all internal constructs you have an incomplete ethics code, following an incomplete ethics code makes you unethical.
Wonderful presentation. Thank you for your work.
*Chloe Everett: makes drawing to show that she is depressed*
Other kid: That’s beautiful!
*Chloe Everett: looks down and walks away*
Agencies like ARC love ABA because it's a cash cow; a great many opportunities for maximizing billing. But for the Autistic person, it is absolute torture.
It’s really annoying and pisses me off When other people keep recommending St Louis Arc time and time again.
It definitely seems like the ABA therapy and school district she went to was pretty awful...
Right?! My therapists were my saviors. I feel bad for those who were abused through various types of therapies.
@@TheWanderingButterfly I love hearing this. I am an RBT and my clients genuinely like me. They sometimes don't even want to go home!
So what would you recommend
i looooooove this my dream is to help those like her to embrace themselves and reverse the self hate and masking
I’m so grateful you spoke about this, as I sit here and debate aba my heart tells me no
If these organizations should exist, they should only be allowed to treat consenting adults. Doing this on children is simply wrong.
We help children with their maladaptive behaviors to be able to pay attention in class and learn. Such as eloping/leaving the classroom, being aggressive with other kids and getting sent to the principals office (losing the learning time other kids receive). Teachers can't wait for them to try and catch up with another 20 students waiting to move one. These kids need the extra patience and time to learn. Kids who don't have aba early on are more likely to be held back and the majority are at least 2-3 grade levels mentally behind then they should be if they just had help. (Look up any source) If we wait until they were adults we would be teaching 18 year olds with the mental capacity of second graders. Plus she's speaking for verbal high functioning students not the majority that we work with. I feel bad for the organization she was in but it is not what ethical aba does.
@@melissaarias4179
Why are you all so illogical thinking humanity is an artificial species?
All these delays you speak of are manmade, artificial. I as an autistic child were doing GCSE Mathematics when 7 years old, it seems like all nonautistic people are nearly 10 years delayed in your mathematics, are you?
Does it not make sense to you that;
Diversity in neurological development = Diversity in human development?
As you try fitting them all into "when 2years old you must be able to speak" you condition them interfering with their human development by pulling it out of harmony with neurological development. That's why those who abandon you sooner develop more healthily and by the time they're adults they're just as capable as others, because they developed and were not conditioned as ABA does to them.
Once you put someone in a condition they resist development because you've already conditioned them. If you would allow them to develop instead, once that part of the brain has developed that skill would have developed with it in correlation.
The problem is clearly applying normality to that which has no normality, diversity in an essential and integral part of the human according to nature. The average/normal human has no tangible existence, it is an artificial model made out of statistical artifacts, there is no such thing as the average person. Look through history and see history teaches us that whenever people rely on cultural norms, discrimination, racism, cultural prejudice, oppression and racism lurks.
Kids who do have ABA are likely to develop PTSD later in life.
@@clements9891completely false
I have an interview for a behavioral technician position tomorrow this video definitely changed how I am approaching the job not in a negative way necessarily but I hope that I am not a tool for an ultimately detrimental practice
Love this so much, I just graduated with a psych degree and have loved working with autistic children as a preschool teacher and saw myself helping them more as a clinician but ABA does not sit right with me and I’m so glad I am learning more. Hope to be an advocate and resource to help autistic people live healthy and HAPPY lives
This has not been our experience whatsoever with ABA! But I have heard many stories from autistic people about traumatic things they went through via ABA and I would never try to cancel out those voices either. There is clearly an issue in the field.
I this wasn’t your experience you didn’t listen on what base was made aba
Ava Adams,
From my perspective, if the individual's behaviour is not harmful or dangerous they don't need to change. If their behaviour can harm themselves or others that's when behaviour needs altering.
Therapy can hurt, eye contact therapy for example.
When an individual who's brain is telling them not to make eye contact makes eye contact it increases anxiety, just like we see people with social anxiety avoid eye contact because it causes them anxiety.
So it's eye contact therapy that's harmful, not no eye contact being made. Sometimes it's the therapy that is harmful.
@@faust594 Times change as do methods and ethics. You mad at the medical field for drilling holes in the heads of sick people to let the bad demons out back in the 1600's? I would assume no....
It's depressing that there are poorly trained, and even abusive ABA therapists out there, but the majority of us are doing everything we can to stop that abuse. Much of what she is talking about is no longer practiced in most ABA settings. There are still some holdouts, but ABA a therapy tool is moving pretty quickly away from punishment models, and into adjusting the environment so that harmful behaviors naturally fall to the wayside as children learn to get what they need without harming themselves or others.
I have never been involved with teaching a child that they are wrong for being different.
I teach them how to communicate, so that even strangers can understand what they need. I teach them to say they are tired or frustrated, or even angry, and to ask for items they want instead of screaming and not understanding why we don't understand them. We teach them that there are better ways of saying "no, stop that" than hitting and biting, and we help them catch up on their educational goals so that they can stay with their peers and succeed in school. We aren't trying to stop them from being them, we are teaching them to communicate effectively, so they can choose what they want for themselves.
Most ABA therapists are learning not to use punishment at all, instead opting for positive reinforcements, and repetition. Heck, I can't even do timeouts, in a preschool setting, where the teacher uses timeout as a regular consequence. The absolute worst "punishment" is to say "No hitting please, ask for..." or "That's not available right now. You can play with it after you do your shapes. "
I understand and completely agree with getting children not to hurt others. But that's not all ABA does. ABA is based in natural science, which focuses on behaviors instead of the more social science-based belief of what's causing these behaviors in the first place. So I would say that if you're not teaching children to mask their autism, then that's going counter to natural science and therefore ABA.
necelticsox in ABA today it also focuses on the function of behavior. You can’t teach a replacement behavior without knowing the function that it serves. Hitting has so many why’s and can serve so many different functions.
@@nyecore But according to the official definiton of ABA, it is based on natural sciences, so to consider the reasons for that behavior is rejecting natural science and therefore ABA.
necelticsox the definition of Applied Behavior Analysis “is the science in which tactics derived for the principles of behavior are applied to improve socially significant behavior and experimentation is used to identify the variables responsible for the improvement in behavior.” Before a treatment goal is created a function behavioral assessment (FBA) is conducted to figure out the purpose of the behavior and the factors that maintain the behavior. Today there are is a huge emphasis to make sure that the target behavior is socially significant and meaningful to the client. The answer is not to throw away ABA. The answer is to improve ABA. There are a lot of problems with our education system and the answer is not to stop educating children. The answer is innovation and inclusion. ABA is evolving and getting better. There are so many different naturalistic and play based methods of ABA that is very beneficial. I agree that old methods of discrete trial can be harmful and when a therapist imposes their social standards on a patient it can be harmful. It sucks that so many people had bad experiences. I have had terrible educational experiences with educators but never would I say to get rid of the entire profession altogether.
@@nyecore Actually, according to ABA International's website, ABA is "a natural science that seeks to understand the behavior of individuals". Natural science means the study of human behavior. Social science is "the study of human society and social relationships". ABA has to be based on natural science, not social science. If a practitioner considers the emotional and psychological consequences of autistic masking and thus avoids teaching their clients to mask, they are rejecting natural science and therefore not practicing genuine ABA. Centers often have to say they offer ABA for insurance money since the system has been rigged in ABA's favor, but the reality is, a lot of these centers don't practice genuine ABA because they don't force their clients to make eye contact or to suppress stimming. There are even some ABA practitioners who claim that they give their clients more control over the therapy, which is actually more along the lines of intensive interaction instead of ABA.
Love this a lot!!
Oh 6:10 made me cry
As an aba therapist now, i believe things have changed. At my center we encourage stemming, we don’t tell the kids no, we don’t make our kids use please or thank you, we hate the world normal because EVERYONE is on the spectrum. Positive punishment, negative punishment/ renforcement are never used. Consent is constantly used. We don’t withhold unconditioned reinforcement such as (food, water, sleep, and anything else you need to live). When my kiddos say no they mean no i will not force anyone to do anything they don’t want to do because they are HUMAN. I still fill like aba definitely has some work to improve but i also feel like it makes a difference. I open to hearing feedback from this comment because my only goal is to help my kiddos.
Well you kind of must do punishment or reinforcement (hopefully the later) otherwise your doing nothing, they can be at home at do nothing without insurance being billed..
@@benjaminschooley3108 positive reinforcement will ALWAYS be used. We just don’t use negative reinforcement. Maybe take time to read in to the 4 methods.
@@LuvNyasha That guy you were replying to is a troll. Ignore.
I have never agreed with anything more in my life! ABA is constantly evolving. A lot of the issues she brought up were from YEARS ago. The purpose of ABA is not to "normalize" a child. It is to enhance their independence and/or quality of life. ABA has been reformed and will continue to reform. I think it is a really bad look for her to discourage people from seeking ABA therapy. I respect her for talking about her struggles with it and pointing out the awful way that ABA started, but I wish she did her research on how ABA was reformed and how it is used today.
@@LuvNyasha negative reinforcement is actually used all the time! The term sounds bad but it's really just the removal of a non-desired stimulus. ex. a child has gone 5 minutes of school work with no aggression. He has 6 math problems to do. Take away a math problem and now he only has to do 5.
Yes Chloe, thank you!! We hear we and we respect you. Please note the field hears this and the ethical ones are working toward improving. Thats why exposure is important. ABA therapy does wonders when executed properly.
I also agree with another comment, our goal isnt working toward someone to appear neurotypical. It makes me so sad what the history is and your experience.
Perfectly stated!!
This is a valid point when analyzing/ criticizing the ABA field. One additional important point is parent training. I work as an RBT and naturally I am researching all about ABA- pros and cons. One thing I've learned is that caregivers may inadvertently reinforce behavior, like tantrums, and ABA focus on teaching alternative behaviors for the client AND the parent/caregiver. Sometimes it is difficult but extremely helpful especially for new parents. Parents- turned- advocates always talk about how they had to change their own perspective/approach to understand and accept their daughter and/or son. I believe the ABA field needs to open the conversation with other branches of sciences and by extension society needs to be more inclusive of all non-neurotypicals. Of course ABA has a long way to go.
Agreed but a lot of the rhetoric about punishment and masking is just not correct? There are really bad ABAT's and the judge roteburg center has like 0% to do with this. However there's so much that my company has never done and will never do. I want to make sure our field is helpful but it still hurts.
@@clarity8845 It is great that you are informed about these topics as someone that works in this field! It is important to be aware of these controversial issues and share them with everyone inside and outside of the field. From my understanding of this video (of course there are many more testimonies out there) that punishing stemming behavior is disliked by the clients. However, most people approve our approach when teaching functional communication. Some companies have different values (like possibly their profits over productivity) and that is one area where these problems arise and we as a field need to reevaluate those principles and ensure they are being implemented.
ABA therapy doesn't have a long way to go. It needs TO GO. It needs to be replaced with something humane and developed with the inclusion of autistic adults across the spectrum, so they learn real skills and don't come away traumatized, depressed, abused and ashamed to be who they are. No matter how ABA evolves, the system and principles behind it remain unchanged and are based on bad science. It's too steeped in ableism and autistic tears and deaths to be salvaged.
@@thebluefaery_silly Hi! I know that I'm probably a bit biased, but I hope that you can hear me out a little from the perspective of a to-be behavior analyst (and please feel free to correct me if I made any mistakes). I'm not sure if reinforcement and punishment are the principles that you are talking about. From what I have been studying, all our behaviors are technically reinforced and punished (even as typical people) even without ABA! I do not dismiss the autistic people who have been mistreated and I understand the anger. I agree that we should not be stuck in able-istic culture, and for me personally, I would like to be someone who can guide people to stick to their highest potentials, learn skills to do so, and get to know themselves better! And like you said, it's really helpful to be able to listen to the people we are supposed to serve. That's the ABA that I hope can evolve to, and I hope I can be a part of the movement to make this field not misused and be better.
@@soniakimeunhae It's not just mistreatment. Autistic kids have literally died from this, either directly in more tragic cases, or indirectly when they take their own lives after being unable to deal with severe PTSD that follows. The autistic life expectancy is about 20 years less than NTs. You're saying some good things here - it's not as simple as just being about reinforcement. I can see from other comments here that the behaviourist roots of ABA are giving way to something that has more compassion. If therapists as a whole are prepared to truly evolve, they need to be prepared to actually become something else. The same as reptiles didn't stay reptiles when some evolved into birds. If ABA is actually capable of evolving, it must be willing to actually become something new. Or let other models like Floortime take over.
A beautifully delivered Ted Talk, Chloe. I would like to point out that lumping ALL ABA into the category of teaching children with ASD to mask does a huge disservice both to the field and to would-be clients. It's kind of like saying READING is damaging because there are harmful messages in some books. ABA is a diverse field of teaching that makes use of reward, extinction, and in some cases mild punishment (we've come a long way in 60 years!) to teach clients skills and behaviours that will improve their quality of life. I agree that focusing solely on stopping hand-flapping may be harmful. But that is a matter of choosing a poor target. Also, that allowing an ABA practitioner to use damaging punishment to achieve any goal is categorically unacceptable. That is a matter of abusing a position of power and of failing to understand that reward is a far greater motivator than punishment. Both are examples of ABA wielded improperly, not of inherent problems with the science. My best to you and I hope to see more of your self-advocacy. It's people like you who are paving the way for my son to live in a better world :)
So I am an RBT, and I just want to say one thing-it comes down to the clinic. My clinic does not inflict any punishment. We do not withhold any food, water, etc. We dont scream at the kids either. Never ever ever. It comes down to the clinic and person. Not everyone is meant for this field.
AnnMarie,
No, there's great flaws in the field of ABA Therapy itself as a whole, autistic people subjected to ABA being found 86% more likely to fit the PTSD criteria, that shows us it's not just a few bad practitioners.
No more than 5% of people who actually undergo ABA Therapy find it beneficial, the evidence your field loves boasting about, it's very exaggerated as it only worked on one subject out of 58 in Lovaas's project workers love to mention.
First of all ABA workers have a great lack of education, in your training you are not educated about neurodevelopmental conditions which is exactly why you can't see how ABA practices psychologically, mentally and physically abuse autistic people.
ABA workers are not educated in neurology. Neurodevelopmental conditions are neurological, not behavioural, you are essentially working out of your scope.
I'm not going to go on forever mentioning all the neurological differences that provide scientific explanations for the ways people with these neurodevelopmental conditions behave.
So it's not you've got nearly 90% bad practitioners working in the field, it's the fact you are not even educated about these conditions making you willingly exercise harmful methods on autistic children.
Until you expand your scope and actually start including being educated about the conditions of clients in the courses to be an ABA worker, claiming yourselves as "The Golden Standard" for autism makes you officially a fraudulent organisation.
Hi, don't listen to Daniel. He has no idea what he is talking about. Whenever you ask him for the sources of his bogus statistics, he goes silent and deflects.
@@IcanSeeMyselfOutThanks Actually, Daniel provided sources on other comments. You simply didn't pay attention to that.
New perspective ...this got me thinking
That was beautiful ❤
I think functional communication is the most important skill that kids with ASD learn that actually serves them and others. She isn’t condemning all of the ABA objectives. Just the ones that extinguish behaviors that aren’t even harmful, just unique.
Aimee Nickel,
"functional communication" is one of the very problems with ABA and what makes it an organisation of ableism, a form of discrimination which is abuse.
What they classify as functional communication is communicating the same way as nonautistic people placing all the work and responsibility on the autistic one even though communication is a responsibility between everyone involved.
Saying an autistic person's natural communication is disorderly is nonautistic people acting like autistic people are less and stripping autistic people of their civil rights. The better solution would be that nonautistic people should keep their responsibility in communication and learn to understand us as we learn to understand nonautistic people.
@@danielmoore4024 I am wondering if you and I have the same understanding of what functional communication is. Because it sounds like we don’t.
@@aimee4892
If my response sounds different to what you view as functional communication you're most likely right. ABA workers told me what I've written is what they classify as functional communication, communicating in a way that they understand, not just communicating in a harmless way that can be understood.
They told me even in this comment section that functional communication is communicating the same way as nonautistic people.
Personally, if they're not trying to make autistic children indistinguishable from their peers I think they need to replace the title ABA with a new title more suitable for what it is today. I think ABA is outdated and is always going to remind the majority of the autistic community of abuse.
What always concerns me no matter what ABA is today is ABA workers are not even taught about autism, by not even understanding the condition and neglecting the fact an autistic brain functions differently they still unintentionally internally hurt autistic children.
@@danielmoore4024 I absolutely understand the harm and internalized issues that can come from it. I have ADHD and I feel like I am judged for the way I communicate as well. And I assume people think I’m just not intelligent if I can’t articulate my ideas in a way that makes sense.
@@aimee4892 so what is your definition of functional communication?
On a sidenote, I have ADHD too, but I dont 100% agree with changing neurodivergent children to fit the same way of communication as "normal" children.
ABA deserves to be closed indefinitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agreed.
Ela está usando o Abafador?
My son was diagnosed with ASD and I raised him to know right from wrong just like I raised his siblings. When he graduated high school with 2 honors and he is 20 yrs old and he works at the high school that he graduated from. He also has his permit too. I'm so proud of him. But I didn't use the ABA with him.
I am offered a position that claims they use ABA, I’m not sure how close it is to the actual definition of ABA, but after researching I am morally worried about taking this position. I am in big need of a job, but I do NOT want to contribute to this harmful “therapy”. Any advice? Is there a way I can ask them how they do things? Although they probably wouldn’t tell me everything 😕
There are so many different ABA companies these days and often times many therapists are being sent out into the field to work with clients without being properly trained. Like a commenter already said, behavior analysts always use the least restrictive procedures and always recommend reinforcement before punishment. I think the unethical procedures from the 60’s are a complete misrepresentation of what ABA is now. I am simply offering my perspective as a RBT and someone pursuing my BCBA to disseminate the field of applied behavior analysis. Autism spectrum disorder is just that. A spectrum. Passionate and ethical practitioners who adhere to the BACB Task List and Ethics Code are simply teaching individuals and groups the skills necessary to live a more independent life. That is the most reinforcing part of my job. ♥️
Modern ABA is essentially harmful to autistic people. It is still using behaviorism to manipulate behaviors and presumes that autistic people are not already communicating precisely what they intended to exactly how they intended to communicate it. Behavior is communication, it is unethical to force, groom, or coerce a change in what someone is communicating. ABA still fundamentally promotes the idea that autism is something had which can be treated or lessened, and presumes that the goal is less autistic behavior.
Autism is a neurological condition, it isnt a behavioral problem.
@@CD-uf1lt right, the goal shouldn't be less autistic behavior, but rather more behaviors that will ACTUALLY be beneficial to the individual, from that individual's perspective (I work as an RBT currently and believe this wholeheartedly, not sure if I fit in with "ABA" per say, but I definitely implement this belief into my work, even though it is ABA based)
@@deadgame2098 Do you expect the whole world to understand what a person with autism is communicating? How can they live a happy life if they're never shown how to effectively communicate?
@@kristinab3069 You're assuming they aren't effectively communicating the way they do naturally. You're either assuming nonverbal forms of communication like pointing, hugging, holding ears, shedding tears, walking away, typing, writing, sign language and AAC aren't valid forms of communication or that autistics are incapable of learning to communicate and do these things on their own.
We may develop skills and language in ways that differ from neurotypical peers and hit different milestones at different times, but ABA doesn't really have anything to do with it. They don't teach autistics anything they weren't going to learn on their own. Maybe Neurotypicals should meet us halfway and learn to speak some of our language for a change, rather than forcing us to stop speaking it and being who we are because they don't want to learn it
Thank you Ms. Chloe for speaking up. I hate it so much when physiological needs are being used to control us. It's so inhumane. Kindness should also be extended to us, we are part of the human race and part of diversity
Thank you so much for this Talk! Very important for us All to hear✨
Hi behavioral therapist here! I've been hearing more and more talk like this recently which I think is fantastic. I want to take what past clients have been experiencing and use that to be better at my role. Any other tips on what I can do and what you wished was done for you when you had a behavioral therapist, please let me know! I do what I do because I truly want to help but last thing I want is to carry on the way I have if I'm causing more harm than good.
Stephanie,
My biggest concern is ABA is treating a neurological condition as a behavioural condition while neglecting scientific evidence that ABA methods used today still harm autistic people depending how they're effected.
It would be very helpful, not just for autistic people, but for workers as well, to learn to understand the uncommon behaviours scientifically by taking into account the neurological differences scientists have discovered. I am able to help parents all around the globe on forums alone but only because I've learnt the neurology of a neurological condition.
The differences make all the behaviours make sense and reveals how certain methods including positive reinforcement can hurt an autistic person.
If we think of routines, keeping everything consistent, controlled environments. All these autism traits are explained by how in MRI studies it's found autistic brains function systematically, and all those behaviours like keeping things consistent fit the principles of a system.
Learning the thinking patterns of autistic people can help you communicate in a way they more naturally understand. In a talk by Temple Grandin here on Ted, "The World Needs All Kinds of Minds," she shares the different thinking patterns, it's worth a listen. Autistic people think specifically, that's why we understand people easier if they're specific. I advise parents to communicate specifically, straight and direct, and if necessary slow their voice down. People process about 3 words per second, but some autistic people can only process 1 out of 3, and if they're still finding it difficult avoid nonverbal communication.
I'll just share how positive reinforcement can hurt an autistic person.
It has a lot to do with what the positive reinforcer is, you must never take from them their special interest, their special interest is more than a hobby, their special interest is their source of soothing, comfort, well-being and helps them make sense of the world. Withhold their special interest and you withhold their well-being.
Depending on their sensory processing, if their hypersensitive to touch reinforcers involving physical contact like hugs can be traumatizing for them.
Just learning the neurological differences gives a great advantage and will increase the safety of ABA. I assume you've had children more attracted to objects than people, less to no eye contact etc... all autism traits including being nonverbal make perfect sense to anyone who learns the neurological differences and what effect those differences have.
We need ABA to stop being so central on behaviour, and bring the neurological factors, feelings and emotions, biological factors and mental health need to be involved with training to be an ABA worker.
@@danielmoore4024 that's not what positive reinforcement is.
@@benjaminschooley3108
Positive reinforcement is rewarding them for desirable behaviour isn't it?
What do you do when they don't do the desired behaviour? You withold the reward.
By using their interests as reinforcers, you withhold their well-being.
Let's take your ignorance method, of ignoring an undesired behaviour. An autistic child is overstimulated by lights and sounds that they're doing an undesirable behaviour to let the parents know they're in pain. You tell the parents to ignore the behaviour, the parents ignore the behaviour which results in a child being sustained in overstimulation causing physical pain and distress because you've told the parents to ignore the children's request to leave the environment.
You continually working in denial shows just how guilty ABA is and how much knowledge you lack.
@@danielmoore4024 no that's not actually what positive reinforcement is either. There are resources out there that could potentially teach you, if you were actually willing to learn.
@@benjaminschooley3108 And why don't you show that?
Thank you for this message 😊
What a lovely, intelligent lady. Good video.
My son is perfect in my eyes I'm just so scared he's going to get bullied and he's not going to tell me because he doesn't really tell me anything that goes on his day he's only 7 but still it really scares me.
Im a BT and work at ABA and I love it because I love working with my clients 🥺 but at the same time I don’t want to do anything to harm them. I’m in college and I’m trying to get as much educated as possible. It hurts me when I heard or read about Aba therapy has done. As I am working there I don’t mind my clients doing things as flipping hands, I called them “their happy hands” or when they play with their toys, I just play with them the way they are playing with. Sometimes they don’t want to do lessons, so I tell them “okay we can take a break, just let me know when you’re ready or show me thumbs up” but I never tried to force them into doing something. Or when they do something wrong I just be like “try again, or you can ask for help” when they get it right I be like “good job! I knew you could do it, but remember is okay to ask for help” after all they are KIDS.
I agree! Aversion is a no-no in CURRENT practice and it's hard to make that come across. There is also a discussion I had with my supervisor and friends as well--there's this observed trend wherein we see that it doesn't really benefit high functioning Autistics the same way it does those who need help. To make it easier to understand--intensive ABA benefits children who need to have foundations laid out to them because at a point, there are children who are "tabula rasa's" or blank slates when it comes to skills. We're tasked to enter their world and understand how they are driven and motivated and we try to teach them the way that they need to be taught. It's sjust so sad that everyone else is stuck in the past of ABA and would not take the statements from current practitioners :(
Excellent, thank you
The title for the video should be different. There is no problem with ABA, there is a problem with some specialists who do ABA. It's a big difference.
Oh, really? Then how come Sara Rocha, the president of APVA, proved otherwise?
I wonder how the "new" ABA works with catatonia. If 1 of 5 (to a minimum 1 of 10) autistic individuals have catatonia. How do we screen for this and how do we find better approaches when the behavior of catatonia is uncontrollable. Wouldn't some forms of ABA be contraindicating especially if autism specific catatonia is not often diagnosed?
Usually it starts with finding what they DO respond to, and figuring out how they are already communicating, even if it is subtle or unusual. Then we start very small, showing them their reinforcer, and giving it to them as soon as they look at us, even for just a moment. This goes on until they are consistently looking at us when we say their name. Then we move on to showing them how to point at what they want, first by physically guiding them, and then as they get the idea, letting them do it alone, and getting rewarded every time. Usually around this time they have the breakthrough that helps them realize that this is a MUCH easier way to get what they want than fighting for it. And if they are physically capable of communicating, they will usually start trying to make vocalizations soon after. We take data on that, and start rewarding meaningful vocalizations, (not usually words yet), and practicing sounds. Eventually we move on to rewarding full words, then sentences, then descriptive words and so on.
Sandy P The problem is assuming that if they’re not looking, they’re not listening, though. Looking at someone directly can be very stressful for someone on the spectrum, and if we don’t know the fine line between looking and staring, that can cause a whole heap of misunderstandings. You might want to change your approach.
Exactly, James. And along with catatonia (which is pretty common), how does the "new" ABA work with apraxia (which is also quite common)? It isn't even considered or recognized.
Do what works for you. No case is the same.
People with autism ARE STILL PEOPLE. Just because their unique differences fall outside the bell curve of what people consider "typical" doesn't mean a thing. We are ALL INDIVIDUALS and trying to change that for someone who has more noticeable differences is a slippery slope of social conformity. It's a good thing many agencies have moved away from both "treating" stims as well as using aversion/punishment for interventions.
I do not wish to change or control. I want assist people in their best selves. That’s why I am watching this to learn why not to do. Thank you!😊
It depends on the therapists. I’m also a psychology student aiming to do clinical psychology in the future. When I’m talking with a REAL children clinic psychologist (most therapists are, well, “counselors”, because psychotherapy is a protected word and this job is highly regulated), he mentioned that their main focus of using ABA is to help the young children to very very very primary and basic skills such as when someone calling their name they would respond. It is NOT to change if the kids flap their hands. These very very basic skills will make a HUGE difference for the children’s future life. Too bad that ABA therapy, like all psychotherapy or psychological counseling area, have a lot of BAD practitioners. To be a clinical psychologist, you need more than 10 years school work to get a PhD and 2-8 years of practicum under supervision, then pass a test to get a license, then you also have to be tested every few years to maintain your status. And a medical doctor needs something similar. How can someone do a 2 year COURSE-based program, then they are allowed to declare they can attend other people’s mental health? There are so many of students in psychology major that they can’t even grasp some very basic concept of psychology, not being able to even do critical thinking and differentiate evidence-based therapy verses anecdotes, then they do a 2 year puppy-mill master program after graduation, and suddenly they start treating other people online as a “therapist”. Not to mention that a lot of ABA “therapists” do not have ANY psychology or medical background at all, but only did a training. Mental health is as important and as vulnerable as physical health.