personal opinion is that if he is given clemency due to his disability, then in future people with similar disability will be targeted by drug "masterminds", abused and threatened to be drug mules.
I really love this channel. It’s not gossip nonsense, I hope you guys stay this way! Talking about topics like these. Keep this up, I’ll definitely continue watching.
Intellectual impairment or not, he is aware of his acts of trafficking an item (drug or not), and therefore he is responsible for committing a crime. And if his mental age is 18, then he would have known possible consequences of committing a crime (e.g. incarceration, canning, death penalty). It is unfortunate that the item that he had trafficked was drug and he got sentenced to death penalty for that. But the act of trafficking was still real though.
Intention and context matters though. If a person causes another person's death, there are many different charges (and thus punishment) that can brought upon the perpetrator depending on the context and intention. Is it a car accident, a carefully planned premeditated murder, manslaughter due to the heat of the moment, or medical malpractice? Even though the act of causing the death is real in the various circumstance. Same thing, the intention to illegally import handphones for example, is different from illegally importing drugs. If you can prove that are not aware of the contents of the sealed item, the court will adjust your punishment accordingly. Our courts have done that before. Our justice system is not just about being outcome oriented and in that regard, because intention and context is considered, it's fairer.
@@norakmalhakim4390 well this guy that got hanged, even though intellectually disabled was aware of his action to earn money by doing this. The law do not have degrees of drug smuggling compared to murder/accidents, it is stated very clearly you bring in a large amount of drugs, you get hanged.
If he has a 5 year old mind ,why the mother , siblings, next door neighbours & the indian community never watched over him ? Why even allowed him to travel to another country? If he was missing for 24 hrs ,why never report to the malaysian police ? Why this below average male allowed to bring out his malaysian passport from his house ? Such important document must be kept by the mother. Those around him were so confident that this, not so normal male would never break the law ? Why never put a label around his neck that shows his IQ is low ? So held who responsible ? Hold the mother ,the indian community ,the malaysian government or god ? All could tell What was black & white but all of them kept one eye closed when he was in his hometown doing anything he would have wanted to do but singapore government has a law to follow & would always be fair in their judgement .
One of the best episodes to date. Even if they didn't cover every possible angle or argument, the conversations were all very informative in their own way. Props to the doc for her insight and being very well spoken.
The discussion was really solid and having a psych on hand really helped shed light from an expert. However, i found that the point by Critical Spectator about abortion vs hanging is so painfully shallow and misses the intention of both actions. Yes both is about taking a life but the intention is punishment vs autonomy. Its not one in the same.
However the end result of both is the same which is to take away a life. The criminal is at least paying the price as a result of his own choices n a actions. The fetus/baby is paying the price of someone else's choices n action.
@@jen5138 Not the same at all. The pro-choice argument is about giving women the choice to determine what's best for them and if that means an abortion then that should be allowed. Also, how is taking the life of someone who has lived a life and may have dependents the same as an abortion where a woman is getting rid of a fetus that is incapable of existing on their own?
thank you for shedding light on the psychological aspects of this case! coming from a noob law student here, i think the podcast is missing out on the legal aspects.. would be interesting if you guys could bring in the opinions of a criminal defence lawyer to shed some light on the mandatory death penalty/life imprisonment thingi as well as the sentencing process/guidelines.. because theres actually more to it.. like sentencing guidelines of deterrence, retribution, rehabilitation, prevention etc. i feel the public needs to be aware on that aspect as well.. and also if policy considerations would be quite enlightening :D but keep up the good werk guys rlly enjoy theses podcasts!!
I think their argument was why was he given this sentence when he’s not the mastermind? He sacrifice but the master mind still get to continue and the root of the problem is not solved.
This case remind me of the incident of Van Tuong Nguyen. He was a Vietnamese-Australian that was hanged for trafficking 396.2g of heroin in singapore on 2 December 2005. This stash was found when he boarded a melbourne bound flight which was where he intended to travel to after leaving vietnam, singapore being a stopover for 4 hours. Because of the discovery, he was later trialed and convicted to the death penalty on 20 March 2004. This resulted in the Australian Prime Minister writing to Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong to apeal for Van Tuong which was not successful. Then a Australia Deputy premier visited with the Singapore Senior Minister of state for law to discuss clemency for this guy which was also not successful. What resulted was then the heavy criticism of the Australian government from the media for "doing too little" for this person and further backlash was lashed out from human rights activists.
Nowadays human rights activists are a joke. Tell them about the rights of families of those drug abusers that are destroyed. The pain, the hurt and sometimes the fear of being marked by these syndicates. Human rights? Total BS...
Pretty good conversation. Enjoyed the different views and found the research informative. First time seeing this channel. I think this video was recommended to me after watching the Sg Gossips video on the same topic. That was a good one too.
the thing about discussing court cases is that most people are forming their opinions simply based on articles in newspapers and social media. how many actually take the effort to read the grounds of decisions issued by the court and compare it against previous cases?
If Nagen siblings love him then why must sent him alone to work in Singapore? If finance is an issue the family can help. There is no reason a mother sends a special child alone anywhere
The purpose of death penalty is not actually to “remove” from society. The primary purpose is to deter / scare people from committing said crime, and also based on the principle of retribution (an eye for an eye) for more serious crimes like murder. Which then begs the question: is drug trafficking of the same severity as murder to warrant the same punishment?
yes it is the same severity or sometimes considered worse. Because of drugs an entire family children, parents, grandparents can be destroyed which is worse than death
Being put under duress to commit a crime is not grounds for pardon. It is a mitigating factor in the punishment meted out, but it does not excuse the person of his/her crime.
Just a personal 5cent view. Did anybody consider the direction where the purpose of death penalty has 2 side? 1. To punish the said offender because of the severity of the offences that could potential harm our society? 2. To serve as a serious warning to other people to take into serious consideration before committing such offences? To take reference from LKY's interview (refer to some video), the purpose of death penalty is necessary to protect our people as to ensure nobody take lightly to any offences that could affect the society. In this case, drugs are serious. Perhaps when you encounter people closest to you get serious implicate by drugs, you will understand it more. Being poor is not a valid reason for commit any crime that could affect the lives of many others.
35:48 What happens if someone's trafficking, saw the notice on the white card and decides to surrender at the custom even before he goes through the detector and stuff? Interesting... will he still be trialed as per normal?
I find it surprising that new laws can be applied to crimes committed before the law was in place. Whatever was the law during the time of crime should remain as it is, just like how you do not track actions performed in the past that would be unlawful due to new laws in place. Death penalty on drug mule is really simple. Do you think the drug dealer will have an easier time finding mules if the penalty was less harsh? There will be a personal risk-benefit analysis, what the death penalty does is maximise the risk for potential mules to put most of them off the action. Also, do you want to have Singapore Law prioritising the protection of its citizens, or prioritising the circumstances of the many potential drug mules out there?
We must also note that different countries have vastly different legal systems. Singapore uses the common law system that we share with the UK. It is one of the most rigid but comprehensive legal systems. Most other countries use either the civil system or a combination of civil and common law. The civil system allows for some grey area for the judge to pass a verdict based on his own professional logic. These systems pass judgement relatively quickly but can also be overturned relatively easily by the government or the legal institutions. The common law system does not allow for any grey area. Every verdict cannot contradict any past verdict. Once a verdict is made, it will be used to determine the outcome of future cases and turn a grey area into a black and white one. And once a verdict is made, it is extremely difficult in Singapore to overturn it. Thus in Singapore, every verdict goes through multiple times the amount of due diligence and research before a verdict is made. Many cases sometimes have to refer back to cases hundreds of years ago. Every case is given multiple times the number of resources to ensure a fair verdict is given compared to other countries. If I am not wrong, for certain cases there is even no time limit given to the background work and can continue until a satisfactory decision can be made due to how significant every verdict is in Singapore. The City Harvest case is a good example. It dragged for over 8 years in court because it was addressing a grey area in our corporate laws. But once the verdict was made, even the government can only protest but cannot change it.
There are still many mafia have not get caught yet making million of millions. If get caught aso death penalty. So no matter 40gm or kg the punishment is the same only. Is not it fair?
Maybe you could interview Sister Gerard who counselled death row inmates previously & Fr. JJ who's currently counselling prison inmates. What else did they do besides counselling? Did their presence help?
Nobody knows how the police did their investigation.They don't have to tell you.After the police complete their report and present to the DPP to see how far this case will stick.The police do have their intelligence report and the Singapore's police do contact their Malaysian police through Interpol.They don't have to tell us what transpire between them .
at one point of time in the video, Denise mention that in the background, we(singapore) are still doing research to study and get to know about mental health and the death sentence. This is where i want to bring my point in... shouldn't we continue taking a pause on the death sentence until we truly concluded research in this area? Could we just allow those who wants to live, an opportunity to serve the life sentence, and perhaps doing factory labour or something in prison to contribute to society (give them a meaning to life)? Or is that worse? still alot of things to ponder upon. We really need to again take a step back and re-evaluate and weight between crime deterrence and life. Additionally, we must consider that there is a huge difference between ethics and morality. These are all just my small take in this, my opinions. I am not supporting or defending that guy who is facing the death sentence, but we really need to take a step back, and pragmatically reevaluate this whole thing. Again, its just my opinion.
Maybe we can also give a choice for the sake of human rights to let them choose either death penalty or living as a slave for the rest of their lives (ofc it must be a very bad crime). Ngl I would choose death, being treated as a slave gonna suck hell more than dying imo.
If we don’t know if the COE prices will decrease, should we stop purchases of cars first? We don’t know if our current education system is placing too much stress on our children, shall we pause schooling while we figure it out? My point is that society functions fluidly. You can’t pause an entire system just to figure the kinks of it
The removal of death penalty, and replacing it with life imprisonment - who does it actually benefit? Imprisonment removes one from their family, social circle and the rest of society. Is a life imprisonment really better for society and the offender? Or does it just help people who are not involved in the case, feel better and more “humane” just because we dump this fella into the prison system for the rest of his life instead of just ending his suffering. Moreover, if he was really coerced into trafficking drugs because socio economic situation, then isn’t it counter productive to sentence him for a few years then release him thereafter?
I think the system where up-votting a comment has to go out from the social media, then the people who are seeking validation by commenting will loose their power .
Something tells me that if Lee Kuan Yew were to said that he was against the death penalty, that 76% percent of respondents in Singapore whom currently claimed to support the death penalty today, would go out of their way to cite reasons on why the death penalty wasn’t effective in the first place. 😂
First of all...he knows what he was doing...nothing to do with mental case ....whatever the case....he should remember what the drugs he sold will do to an addict n their families...my friend eventhough managed to overcome drug abuse thru treatment....feeling of guilt came along as he started back to abuse drugs...n his wife decided not to give him.another chance since he went back to drugs...bcos of all these guilt...he committed suicide to end all suffering
Agreed singapore is not USA. The racism exist like any country on earth but it is not to the point that threatens the justice system fairness like USA.
The problem with giving clemency and if successful is that, these drug pushers will use mules similar to him knowing that there was no death sentence and maybe even defence lawyers with cite this case in future as example that why can't their current defendant can't be given clemecy when in 2022 there was a similar sentence.
How to avoid social problems which are drug trafficking, murder and robbery? Many death penalties have been sentenced, buy why these immortal crimes are going on? All these occur in today's world is because earning a comfortable living on Earth are only for the talented and professional. These crimes occur are all out for money. All job requirements mandate technical interviews so that only people who are capable and talented can earn a comfortable air conditioned job. When hiring people, we should allow less talented people to get a job. Smarter people and stupider people all have feelings and we must care for one another. Stupider people also have rights to get a comfortable job. Don't force them to do sweating jobs. Do not put profits as priority number 1, love among others should be the upmost priority to be blessed by God. If employers change our mindset of hiring people, I am sure that such crime rates will drop!
With the death penalty, people are still willing to smuggle drugs. (I'm reminded of that a young man on LSD who killed his mum and grandma.) What would happen without the death penalty?
20:43 in order to prove if someone’s own account has any loopholes, the person giving the statement can be asked to give their statements over and over again, over a period of time to see if their testament has any changes (watch: jennifer pan’s interrogation)
Still not 100% effective. It is still within the realm of possibility for the suspect to accurately spit out every single detail of his/her contrived story each time he/she is questioned, especially if he/she rehearsed enough. Jennifer Pan was exposed only because she was unable to memorize and spit out every single exact detail each time she was questioned. Just because it worked on Jennifer Pan doesn’t mean it is flawless.
@@brxndonnnn i see. Cant the interrogator branch out into random, specific details just to throw them off their memorization? I watched a few interrogation videos, most of them seem to work, in a sense that they usually mess up in their story telling. But i guess some can still go undetected.
Drug traffickers and drug addicts deserve this, I'm in support of Singapore, drugs criminals deserve only death penalty ! India should follow Singapore.
Speaking as an American, I believe this was the right decision. If you excuse criminals then Singapore will go to shit. It’s what happened in many American cities
Are we supposed to feel sorry for idiots who smuggle drugs into the country though they know the severity of the punishment for drug trafficking? If you do not wish to be executed then don't smuggle drugs. Good on the law for not bending to foreign influence or opinions and carrying out the sentence. I do not feel empathy for drug traffickers.
Although i am against death penalty, we should remind ourselves that not everyone can be rehabilitated. It depends on where the person stand on a sociopathy scale.
There isn't a definite most effective way of handling such cases, but Singapore has set a death penalty law in regards to drug trafficking. Giving a chance to repent or do good is important, but humans will always use it as a loophole. What is worst if the drug lords uses this case (if he is given leniency) to hire more mules that is similar to the Malaysian indian, how would the public respond when that happens? I also believe that Singapore law system is what contributed to how safe it is today. As sad as it is that a man has to be executed despite his issues, we should understand that if a death penalty doesn't stop drug trafficking completely, what makes anyone think that anything lesser or more lenient is able to do the trick?
Great discussion but it seems that from Denise’s points, she’s coming from a position of privilege. Especially when she brought up the point of applying racial issues happening in the US to Singapore. You mean there are no racial issues in Singapore? Clearly Chinese privilege.
Daily ketchup sounds like a "mouthpiece for the govt but try to make it indie". After hearing multiple podcasts, it really seems like the show tries to tackle current affairs and have a very unbiased view on it but the subliminal messaging will always be pro govt. their past campaigns and sponsors show too
yep i agree with that too, i feel like given a scale, the ratio for the counter opinion to one that seems to be pro gov is always very evident to be imbalanced... I feel like no matter what, jon paul seems to be the only voice of opposition usually. Doesnt seem very balanced to me.
@@rachelclaudia4371 fr couldn't have worded it any better, like the whole podcast they went back to defend gov't decisions n plus comparing inmates on death row to abortion is bit stupid. Also, they missed the biggest argument which is the fact that he has been in death row for a crime he committed at 21 of trafficking. Singapore even though branded liberal has one of the harshest laws in the world.
I don't think the discussion was "solid" at all. There was so much dismissive shallowness on hand at every turn, so little delving deeper into the issues at hand or questioning what justice is and what it should be. No questioning of the validity of the government's choice to execute people for trafficking drugs, which, under most robust arguments that have taken place at university level and overseas public forums, is not "just" nor is it helpful - especially this practice to execute individuals and sometimes multiple individuals for first time offences that do not amount to direct harm to anyone. Police practices in Singapore also didn't come into question, despite the practice that we allow continuous questioning with safeguards in place to manufacture justification for unlimited confinement by police without the accused having access to a lawyer until the police deem it suitable. During the multiple questionings by different officers, I'm not sure how the details of an accused statement can be expected to be the same, under duress, as they certainly would be. Then there is the complete glossing over of the fact that IQ has largely been debunked scientifically as a measurement of intellectual ability or capability. The absolutely idiotic and indefensible "Hitler also a good person what" comment - no, I'm sorry but you can't really take that back, its revolting and shows a clear lack of reading, understanding and the importance of context. Just because the government thinks the death penalty is still necessary for multiple offences, it does not mean they're right - I believe that if people were allowed the civil liberty of peaceful protest to get their representatives and their government to actually do what they want and represent them instead of just toe the party line (in this case, the ruling party), there would actually be much more discussion in parliament regarding the death penalty. There is also no mention of equally important issues like the fact that laws like this can't be repealed (despite debate or discussion) in a parliament that is dominated by one party that rarely lifts the party whip so that its own ministers can vote according to their conscience instead of according to party lines (which is what is normally required of them). There was no discussion of the demonisation of drugs in general or the fact that other countries have found very different ways of dealing with drug addiction - ways that, in this day and age, with the level of education we like to boast our country has, should work just as well or at least have the opportunity to work just as well (I'm thinking here of the nordic nations and countries like Portugal, Holland, etc.). The one positive thing that one of them was attempting to share vis-a-vis life imprisonment as an alternative to the death penalty really wasn't put across very well and could have made for a much deeper conversation (its difficult to express my consternation at the fact that a group of privileged young people, with no minority or even varied ethnic representation for a potentially different perspective, would compare apples to oranges and make disanalogies like claiming that both sentences "remove the individual from society" and are therefore "doing the same thing" - how out of touch do you have to be to not see the distinction?) if there was any recognition that the death penalty constitutes a bunch of people deciding whether one or more other individuals live or die - this practice in itself should be enough reason to look for an alternative, of which life imprisonment is one. There are a number of documented cases of individuals who had been sentenced to life imprisonment after having committed horrific crimes and, over the decades behind bars have educated themselves, repented, rehabilitated and helped many other prisoners who were transitioning through a sentence and even helped their victim's families from behind bars. I was hoping for a really robust discussion involving the philosophy behind the different decisions being made, more deep questioning of the laws themselves (as opposed to regurgitation of minister's quaint pictures of what the horrors would be, despite having no real evidence to point to other than an attempt the desire to justify the law by evoking a sense of fear and dread of worst possible outcomes), whether real change needs to be made and what that could look like for Singapore and whether our citizenry is ready and able to get more involved in changing the legislation that our most vulnerable and poverty stricken are forced to live by. There is so much data and so many studies (even presented in video format on CZcams) related to poverty and vulnerability and minorities always suffering the worst consequences for these types of crimes that really are a result of a much larger and more complex situation - none of these studies were referenced, discussed or brought up to substantiate sentiments being shared by many Singaporeans online and around their own dinner tables regarding these matters. There are so many issues that tie into this matter, as well as past executions that would have warranted a revisiting for discussion - none of that happened. Very disappointing and disheartening. Nothing throughout the discussion went past the surface to talk about the details of contributing issues nor trace the connections to the many other facets of the main issues (and thus ideas) discussed.
I'm 8 seconds in and already disappointed. His name is pronounced na-gayn-the-ruhn. I have been a huge fan of the podcast for a while, but the lack of diversity which is evident in the discussions has always been a subtle thorn in my side. Please do better, and I am saying this as a fan.
@@sarahxskies disappointed because they can’t pronounce a name that’s obviously hard to? And that there’s lack of diversity? It’s a podcast, not a news channel. Podcasts are for entertaining purposes, and are not here to make everyone happy lol like the old saying, don’t like the podcast, make your own.
@@sarahxskies Grab me someone of that race and ask them to pronounce a difficult Chinese name. Just try it with your friends and please do repeat what you commented to them in their face if they fail to pronounce. Touch your heart and honestly let us know the outcome. Would you dare to look yourself in the mirror too?
What is there to debate? These drug mules jolly well knew the strict rules of Singapore and yet they want to try their luck. Malaysia, I wonder how your immigration officer do their job? Why so many drug pusher sneak through? Act blur ya? Singapore side always be the bad guy. When drug mules were caught. Spare the rod spoilt tha kid. Anyway, we are very thankful to you for internationally Singapore has make a name for ourselves. More death penalty to come. Go ahead and make my day!
personal opinion is that if he is given clemency due to his disability, then in future people with similar disability will be targeted by drug "masterminds", abused and threatened to be drug mules.
The only podcast that I’m religiously watching and anticipating. Best Podcast in Singapore, seriously. 👌
I really love this channel. It’s not gossip nonsense, I hope you guys stay this way! Talking about topics like these. Keep this up, I’ll definitely continue watching.
Intellectual impairment or not, he is aware of his acts of trafficking an item (drug or not), and therefore he is responsible for committing a crime. And if his mental age is 18, then he would have known possible consequences of committing a crime (e.g. incarceration, canning, death penalty). It is unfortunate that the item that he had trafficked was drug and he got sentenced to death penalty for that. But the act of trafficking was still real though.
Intention and context matters though. If a person causes another person's death, there are many different charges (and thus punishment) that can brought upon the perpetrator depending on the context and intention. Is it a car accident, a carefully planned premeditated murder, manslaughter due to the heat of the moment, or medical malpractice? Even though the act of causing the death is real in the various circumstance. Same thing, the intention to illegally import handphones for example, is different from illegally importing drugs. If you can prove that are not aware of the contents of the sealed item, the court will adjust your punishment accordingly. Our courts have done that before. Our justice system is not just about being outcome oriented and in that regard, because intention and context is considered, it's fairer.
@@norakmalhakim4390 well this guy that got hanged, even though intellectually disabled was aware of his action to earn money by doing this. The law do not have degrees of drug smuggling compared to murder/accidents, it is stated very clearly you bring in a large amount of drugs, you get hanged.
If he has a 5 year old mind ,why the mother , siblings, next door neighbours & the indian community never watched over him ?
Why even allowed him to travel to another country?
If he was missing for 24 hrs ,why never report to the malaysian police ?
Why this below average male allowed to bring out his malaysian passport from his house ? Such important document must be kept by the mother. Those around him were so confident that this, not so normal male would never break the law ?
Why never put a label around his neck that shows his IQ is low ?
So held who responsible ?
Hold the mother ,the indian community ,the malaysian government or god ? All could tell What was black & white but all of them kept one eye closed when he was in his hometown doing anything he would have wanted to do but singapore government has a law to follow & would always be fair in their judgement .
One of the best episodes to date. Even if they didn't cover every possible angle or argument, the conversations were all very informative in their own way. Props to the doc for her insight and being very well spoken.
The discussion was really solid and having a psych on hand really helped shed light from an expert. However, i found that the point by Critical Spectator about abortion vs hanging is so painfully shallow and misses the intention of both actions. Yes both is about taking a life but the intention is punishment vs autonomy. Its not one in the same.
However the end result of both is the same which is to take away a life. The criminal is at least paying the price as a result of his own choices n a actions. The fetus/baby is paying the price of someone else's choices n action.
@@jen5138 Not the same at all. The pro-choice argument is about giving women the choice to determine what's best for them and if that means an abortion then that should be allowed. Also, how is taking the life of someone who has lived a life and may have dependents the same as an abortion where a woman is getting rid of a fetus that is incapable of existing on their own?
thank you for shedding light on the psychological aspects of this case! coming from a noob law student here, i think the podcast is missing out on the legal aspects.. would be interesting if you guys could bring in the opinions of a criminal defence lawyer to shed some light on the mandatory death penalty/life imprisonment thingi as well as the sentencing process/guidelines.. because theres actually more to it.. like sentencing guidelines of deterrence, retribution, rehabilitation, prevention etc. i feel the public needs to be aware on that aspect as well.. and also if policy considerations would be quite enlightening :D
but keep up the good werk guys rlly enjoy theses podcasts!!
I feel this is a very honest podcast on this issue and I appreciate it!
The rules are known beforehand. Drugs trafficking is death sentence and they do so for good money.
I think their argument was why was he given this sentence when he’s not the mastermind? He sacrifice but the master mind still get to continue and the root of the problem is not solved.
@@victorvictor4235 But mastermind or not. The rules are there.
the laws dont even state mastermind, mule, partner whatever. you hold the drugs you get hanged
You guys ask all the pertinent questions and let’s us see different perspectives of a same issue. Please, more Daily Ketchups!
This case remind me of the incident of Van Tuong Nguyen. He was a Vietnamese-Australian that was hanged for trafficking 396.2g of heroin in singapore on 2 December 2005. This stash was found when he boarded a melbourne bound flight which was where he intended to travel to after leaving vietnam, singapore being a stopover for 4 hours. Because of the discovery, he was later trialed and convicted to the death penalty on 20 March 2004.
This resulted in the Australian Prime Minister writing to Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong to apeal for Van Tuong which was not successful. Then a Australia Deputy premier visited with the Singapore Senior Minister of state for law to discuss clemency for this guy which was also not successful. What resulted was then the heavy criticism of the Australian government from the media for "doing too little" for this person and further backlash was lashed out from human rights activists.
The right to traffick drugs. 🤣 Singapore must never be like Australia
Nowadays human rights activists are a joke. Tell them about the rights of families of those drug abusers that are destroyed. The pain, the hurt and sometimes the fear of being marked by these syndicates. Human rights? Total BS...
Just avoid singapore but you are welcomed to china.
Pretty good conversation. Enjoyed the different views and found the research informative. First time seeing this channel. I think this video was recommended to me after watching the Sg Gossips video on the same topic. That was a good one too.
Really enjoyed watching this episode, by far the nicest podcast
the thing about discussing court cases is that most people are forming their opinions simply based on articles in newspapers and social media. how many actually take the effort to read the grounds of decisions issued by the court and compare it against previous cases?
If Nagen siblings love him then why must sent him alone to work in Singapore? If finance is an issue the family can help. There is no reason a mother sends a special child alone anywhere
The purpose of death penalty is not actually to “remove” from society. The primary purpose is to deter / scare people from committing said crime, and also based on the principle of retribution (an eye for an eye) for more serious crimes like murder. Which then begs the question: is drug trafficking of the same severity as murder to warrant the same punishment?
yes it is the same severity or sometimes considered worse. Because of drugs an entire family children, parents, grandparents can be destroyed which is worse than death
Seeking help for mental issues compared to seeing a doctor has so much more of a hefty price tag. Would be interesting to see an episode on that.
Being put under duress to commit a crime is not grounds for pardon. It is a mitigating factor in the punishment meted out, but it does not excuse the person of his/her crime.
Bottom line: He knew right from wrong . Low IQ does not mean he did not know right from wrong.
But actively receiving the money for trafficking and having a girlfriend shows that he is not so IQ impaired.
Big fan ! Keep the great content coming!
Just a personal 5cent view.
Did anybody consider the direction where the purpose of death penalty has 2 side?
1. To punish the said offender because of the severity of the offences that could potential harm our society?
2. To serve as a serious warning to other people to take into serious consideration before committing such offences?
To take reference from LKY's interview (refer to some video), the purpose of death penalty is necessary to protect our people as to ensure nobody take lightly to any offences that could affect the society. In this case, drugs are serious. Perhaps when you encounter people closest to you get serious implicate by drugs, you will understand it more. Being poor is not a valid reason for commit any crime that could affect the lives of many others.
35:48 What happens if someone's trafficking, saw the notice on the white card and decides to surrender at the custom even before he goes through the detector and stuff? Interesting... will he still be trialed as per normal?
he made it sound so simple , anyway there no such case to prove
Dr Geraldine is really cool….
thank you for posting in time for my dinner🙏
I find it surprising that new laws can be applied to crimes committed before the law was in place. Whatever was the law during the time of crime should remain as it is, just like how you do not track actions performed in the past that would be unlawful due to new laws in place.
Death penalty on drug mule is really simple. Do you think the drug dealer will have an easier time finding mules if the penalty was less harsh? There will be a personal risk-benefit analysis, what the death penalty does is maximise the risk for potential mules to put most of them off the action.
Also, do you want to have Singapore Law prioritising the protection of its citizens, or prioritising the circumstances of the many potential drug mules out there?
We must also note that different countries have vastly different legal systems.
Singapore uses the common law system that we share with the UK. It is one of the most rigid but comprehensive legal systems. Most other countries use either the civil system or a combination of civil and common law.
The civil system allows for some grey area for the judge to pass a verdict based on his own professional logic. These systems pass judgement relatively quickly but can also be overturned relatively easily by the government or the legal institutions.
The common law system does not allow for any grey area. Every verdict cannot contradict any past verdict. Once a verdict is made, it will be used to determine the outcome of future cases and turn a grey area into a black and white one. And once a verdict is made, it is extremely difficult in Singapore to overturn it.
Thus in Singapore, every verdict goes through multiple times the amount of due diligence and research before a verdict is made. Many cases sometimes have to refer back to cases hundreds of years ago. Every case is given multiple times the number of resources to ensure a fair verdict is given compared to other countries.
If I am not wrong, for certain cases there is even no time limit given to the background work and can continue until a satisfactory decision can be made due to how significant every verdict is in Singapore. The City Harvest case is a good example. It dragged for over 8 years in court because it was addressing a grey area in our corporate laws. But once the verdict was made, even the government can only protest but cannot change it.
love your videos, wonder if you guys could talk about the creative scene in singapore, i.e. youtube, streaming, game development, arts & music
There are still many mafia have not get caught yet making million of millions. If get caught aso death penalty. So no matter 40gm or kg the punishment is the same only. Is not it fair?
Maybe you could interview Sister Gerard who counselled death row inmates previously & Fr. JJ who's currently counselling prison inmates. What else did they do besides counselling? Did their presence help?
Nobody knows how the police did their investigation.They don't have to tell you.After the police complete their report and present to the DPP to see how far this case will stick.The police do have their intelligence report and the Singapore's police do contact their Malaysian police through Interpol.They don't have to tell us what transpire between them .
@24:14 Dr Tan's remark back just made my day hahaha
Denise is the only one here that actually does her research.
"because he is Malaysian"
*shotthroughtheheart* :(
Quote of the day “Why do I need to smuggle drugs from Singapore into Singapore?” That got me laughing.
Love the long videos :)
at one point of time in the video, Denise mention that in the background, we(singapore) are still doing research to study and get to know about mental health and the death sentence. This is where i want to bring my point in... shouldn't we continue taking a pause on the death sentence until we truly concluded research in this area? Could we just allow those who wants to live, an opportunity to serve the life sentence, and perhaps doing factory labour or something in prison to contribute to society (give them a meaning to life)? Or is that worse? still alot of things to ponder upon. We really need to again take a step back and re-evaluate and weight between crime deterrence and life. Additionally, we must consider that there is a huge difference between ethics and morality. These are all just my small take in this, my opinions. I am not supporting or defending that guy who is facing the death sentence, but we really need to take a step back, and pragmatically reevaluate this whole thing. Again, its just my opinion.
Maybe we can also give a choice for the sake of human rights to let them choose either death penalty or living as a slave for the rest of their lives (ofc it must be a very bad crime). Ngl I would choose death, being treated as a slave gonna suck hell more than dying imo.
If we don’t know if the COE prices will decrease, should we stop purchases of cars first?
We don’t know if our current education system is placing too much stress on our children, shall we pause schooling while we figure it out?
My point is that society functions fluidly. You can’t pause an entire system just to figure the kinks of it
Mind blow for this episode but enjoying it!
Can there be a breakdown with diff time point on diff topic moving forward?
Correlation does not imply causality.
The removal of death penalty, and replacing it with life imprisonment - who does it actually benefit?
Imprisonment removes one from their family, social circle and the rest of society. Is a life imprisonment really better for society and the offender? Or does it just help people who are not involved in the case, feel better and more “humane” just because we dump this fella into the prison system for the rest of his life instead of just ending his suffering. Moreover, if he was really coerced into trafficking drugs because socio economic situation, then isn’t it counter productive to sentence him for a few years then release him thereafter?
Algo :^ pls have more podcasts, I'm running out of videos to watch from yalls 🥲
How about discuss this in rvsc young man who murdered his fellow school mates?
36:54 nationality didnt mattered here but rather cos drugs was found on him in our borders. hence, the conviction.
That's cos his lawyer only just represented him like 2 years ago?? He wasn't around from the start of the case.. U can guess who the lawyer is.. 😂
“Cos he is Malaysian” 🤣🤣🤣
It’s a good argument.
I agree with all the points. Personally i can't find a counter arguement that's not base on emotions.
Please, anyone can fake and fail the tests to act innocent.
why john kept on laughing though?
I think the system where up-votting a comment has to go out from the social media, then the people who are seeking validation by commenting will loose their power .
The only person that seems to make sense to me is the psychologist.
ayyy early! was binge watching again hahaahah
Something tells me that if Lee Kuan Yew were to said that he was against the death penalty, that 76% percent of respondents in Singapore whom currently claimed to support the death penalty today, would go out of their way to cite reasons on why the death penalty wasn’t effective in the first place. 😂
First of all...he knows what he was doing...nothing to do with mental case ....whatever the case....he should remember what the drugs he sold will do to an addict n their families...my friend eventhough managed to overcome drug abuse thru treatment....feeling of guilt came along as he started back to abuse drugs...n his wife decided not to give him.another chance since he went back to drugs...bcos of all these guilt...he committed suicide to end all suffering
A dead man can do no harm or good
Singapore’s no.1 Pro Government Podcast..
Hopefully not too pro.. Kind of tired of their propagandas..
I can smell racial tension in this comment section lol.
Agreed singapore is not USA. The racism exist like any country on earth but it is not to the point that threatens the justice system fairness like USA.
#algo keep posting this awesome content
Speaking of RV, its been a month since the trial. And there was nothing...hmm.
The problem with giving clemency and if successful is that, these drug pushers will use mules similar to him knowing that there was no death sentence and maybe even defence lawyers with cite this case in future as example that why can't their current defendant can't be given clemecy when in 2022 there was a similar sentence.
Maybe legalization would be your next topic ✌
Why u give him clementi
You can’t type algo in the comment btw, that doesn’t work. You’ll need to like and reply the comment 👍
Suggestion: Talk about the KAWS alleged IP breach!
Just type Algo
Orh.
How to avoid social problems which are drug trafficking, murder and robbery?
Many death penalties have been sentenced, buy why these immortal crimes are going on?
All these occur in today's world is because earning a comfortable living on Earth are only for the talented and professional.
These crimes occur are all out for money.
All job requirements mandate technical interviews so that only people who are capable and talented can earn a comfortable air conditioned job.
When hiring people, we should allow less talented people to get a job.
Smarter people and stupider people all have feelings and we must care for one another.
Stupider people also have rights to get a comfortable job. Don't force them to do sweating jobs.
Do not put profits as priority number 1, love among others should be the upmost priority to be blessed by God.
If employers change our mindset of hiring people, I am sure that such crime rates will drop!
With the death penalty, people are still willing to smuggle drugs. (I'm reminded of that a young man on LSD who killed his mum and grandma.) What would happen without the death penalty?
20:43 in order to prove if someone’s own account has any loopholes, the person giving the statement can be asked to give their statements over and over again, over a period of time to see if their testament has any changes (watch: jennifer pan’s interrogation)
Still not 100% effective. It is still within the realm of possibility for the suspect to accurately spit out every single detail of his/her contrived story each time he/she is questioned, especially if he/she rehearsed enough. Jennifer Pan was exposed only because she was unable to memorize and spit out every single exact detail each time she was questioned. Just because it worked on Jennifer Pan doesn’t mean it is flawless.
@@brxndonnnn i see. Cant the interrogator branch out into random, specific details just to throw them off their memorization? I watched a few interrogation videos, most of them seem to work, in a sense that they usually mess up in their story telling. But i guess some can still go undetected.
We support EW23!
Man trafficks drugs.
Man gets arrested for trafficking.
Man pays the consequences.
:|
Dan bringing up critical spectator 'just to play devil's advocate' really dilutes the quality of the otherwise pretty decent discussion.
type L-GO?
Drug traffickers and drug addicts deserve this, I'm in support of Singapore, drugs criminals deserve only death penalty ! India should follow Singapore.
Yo I felt so sorry for Denise cracking up that 69 joke but got shot down #F
Squid game IRL. Thx Singapore
Talk about kaws.
Good :)
25:00
Loopring
Speaking as an American, I believe this was the right decision. If you excuse criminals then Singapore will go to shit. It’s what happened in many American cities
Are we supposed to feel sorry for idiots who smuggle drugs into the country though they know the severity of the punishment for drug trafficking? If you do not wish to be executed then don't smuggle drugs. Good on the law for not bending to foreign influence or opinions and carrying out the sentence. I do not feel empathy for drug traffickers.
Although i am against death penalty, we should remind ourselves that not everyone can be rehabilitated. It depends on where the person stand on a sociopathy scale.
Clementi LOL
algo
Tree times or three times? Haha
There isn't a definite most effective way of handling such cases, but Singapore has set a death penalty law in regards to drug trafficking. Giving a chance to repent or do good is important, but humans will always use it as a loophole. What is worst if the drug lords uses this case (if he is given leniency) to hire more mules that is similar to the Malaysian indian, how would the public respond when that happens? I also believe that Singapore law system is what contributed to how safe it is today. As sad as it is that a man has to be executed despite his issues, we should understand that if a death penalty doesn't stop drug trafficking completely, what makes anyone think that anything lesser or more lenient is able to do the trick?
I see different voices regarding to this case! Some support the sentence and some are against it!
Great discussion but it seems that from Denise’s points, she’s coming from a position of privilege. Especially when she brought up the point of applying racial issues happening in the US to Singapore. You mean there are no racial issues in Singapore? Clearly Chinese privilege.
Daily ketchup sounds like a "mouthpiece for the govt but try to make it indie". After hearing multiple podcasts, it really seems like the show tries to tackle current affairs and have a very unbiased view on it but the subliminal messaging will always be pro govt. their past campaigns and sponsors show too
yep i agree with that too, i feel like given a scale, the ratio for the counter opinion to one that seems to be pro gov is always very evident to be imbalanced... I feel like no matter what, jon paul seems to be the only voice of opposition usually. Doesnt seem very balanced to me.
so says John Doe.
@@rachelclaudia4371 so having a opinion that is similar is pro government...grow up la. so must say everything to be contrary to be your hero?
@@rachelclaudia4371 fr couldn't have worded it any better, like the whole podcast they went back to defend gov't decisions n plus comparing inmates on death row to abortion is bit stupid. Also, they missed the biggest argument which is the fact that he has been in death row for a crime he committed at 21 of trafficking. Singapore even though branded liberal has one of the harshest laws in the world.
That's what I thought too. I also was surprised that Dan said he was on the left because his responses don't come across left at all.
topic suggestion : what would you REALLY do when your partner cheats once vs multiple times
Algo
WhoA aLgOoOo
69! 😂
Hitler should not be cited as an example. Please read up before quoting as though you’ve done your research. It just makes you sound uncouth.
#algo
For Algo
I don't think the discussion was "solid" at all. There was so much dismissive shallowness on hand at every turn, so little delving deeper into the issues at hand or questioning what justice is and what it should be. No questioning of the validity of the government's choice to execute people for trafficking drugs, which, under most robust arguments that have taken place at university level and overseas public forums, is not "just" nor is it helpful - especially this practice to execute individuals and sometimes multiple individuals for first time offences that do not amount to direct harm to anyone. Police practices in Singapore also didn't come into question, despite the practice that we allow continuous questioning with safeguards in place to manufacture justification for unlimited confinement by police without the accused having access to a lawyer until the police deem it suitable. During the multiple questionings by different officers, I'm not sure how the details of an accused statement can be expected to be the same, under duress, as they certainly would be. Then there is the complete glossing over of the fact that IQ has largely been debunked scientifically as a measurement of intellectual ability or capability. The absolutely idiotic and indefensible "Hitler also a good person what" comment - no, I'm sorry but you can't really take that back, its revolting and shows a clear lack of reading, understanding and the importance of context. Just because the government thinks the death penalty is still necessary for multiple offences, it does not mean they're right - I believe that if people were allowed the civil liberty of peaceful protest to get their representatives and their government to actually do what they want and represent them instead of just toe the party line (in this case, the ruling party), there would actually be much more discussion in parliament regarding the death penalty. There is also no mention of equally important issues like the fact that laws like this can't be repealed (despite debate or discussion) in a parliament that is dominated by one party that rarely lifts the party whip so that its own ministers can vote according to their conscience instead of according to party lines (which is what is normally required of them). There was no discussion of the demonisation of drugs in general or the fact that other countries have found very different ways of dealing with drug addiction - ways that, in this day and age, with the level of education we like to boast our country has, should work just as well or at least have the opportunity to work just as well (I'm thinking here of the nordic nations and countries like Portugal, Holland, etc.). The one positive thing that one of them was attempting to share vis-a-vis life imprisonment as an alternative to the death penalty really wasn't put across very well and could have made for a much deeper conversation (its difficult to express my consternation at the fact that a group of privileged young people, with no minority or even varied ethnic representation for a potentially different perspective, would compare apples to oranges and make disanalogies like claiming that both sentences "remove the individual from society" and are therefore "doing the same thing" - how out of touch do you have to be to not see the distinction?) if there was any recognition that the death penalty constitutes a bunch of people deciding whether one or more other individuals live or die - this practice in itself should be enough reason to look for an alternative, of which life imprisonment is one. There are a number of documented cases of individuals who had been sentenced to life imprisonment after having committed horrific crimes and, over the decades behind bars have educated themselves, repented, rehabilitated and helped many other prisoners who were transitioning through a sentence and even helped their victim's families from behind bars. I was hoping for a really robust discussion involving the philosophy behind the different decisions being made, more deep questioning of the laws themselves (as opposed to regurgitation of minister's quaint pictures of what the horrors would be, despite having no real evidence to point to other than an attempt the desire to justify the law by evoking a sense of fear and dread of worst possible outcomes), whether real change needs to be made and what that could look like for Singapore and whether our citizenry is ready and able to get more involved in changing the legislation that our most vulnerable and poverty stricken are forced to live by. There is so much data and so many studies (even presented in video format on CZcams) related to poverty and vulnerability and minorities always suffering the worst consequences for these types of crimes that really are a result of a much larger and more complex situation - none of these studies were referenced, discussed or brought up to substantiate sentiments being shared by many Singaporeans online and around their own dinner tables regarding these matters. There are so many issues that tie into this matter, as well as past executions that would have warranted a revisiting for discussion - none of that happened. Very disappointing and disheartening. Nothing throughout the discussion went past the surface to talk about the details of contributing issues nor trace the connections to the many other facets of the main issues (and thus ideas) discussed.
69
I'm 8 seconds in and already disappointed. His name is pronounced na-gayn-the-ruhn.
I have been a huge fan of the podcast for a while, but the lack of diversity which is evident in the discussions has always been a subtle thorn in my side. Please do better, and I am saying this as a fan.
Seriously? Lol
@@jiawei0917 Yes Jiawei, seriously.
@@sarahxskies disappointed because they can’t pronounce a name that’s obviously hard to? And that there’s lack of diversity? It’s a podcast, not a news channel. Podcasts are for entertaining purposes, and are not here to make everyone happy lol like the old saying, don’t like the podcast, make your own.
@@sarahxskies Grab me someone of that race and ask them to pronounce a difficult Chinese name. Just try it with your friends and please do repeat what you commented to them in their face if they fail to pronounce. Touch your heart and honestly let us know the outcome. Would you dare to look yourself in the mirror too?
No racism here but he should have just call him ah neh instead. So you wont be disappointed.
Algo the for
What is there to debate? These drug mules jolly well knew the strict rules of Singapore and yet they want to try their luck. Malaysia, I wonder how your immigration officer do their job? Why so many drug pusher sneak through? Act blur ya? Singapore side always be the bad guy. When drug mules were caught. Spare the rod spoilt tha kid. Anyway, we are very thankful to you for internationally Singapore has make a name for ourselves. More death penalty to come. Go ahead and make my day!
First
I am a loser