Speakers for the low power SET! How to build a folded pipe?
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Dear Viewer, the link to the coffee-station, or, as I could call it, the Tea-house is right here:
www.buymeacoffee.com/RealWorl...
This is a way to support my channel in a hassle-free manner, and you can contribute as low as 2$ if you feel compelled. If so, I welcome your support with a warm welcome, it goes a long way to allow me to continue with this channel in the future! All your support will go towards improving this channel, and towards the tweaks and components I explore on the channel.
János
Contents:
Showing the superb woodworking skills of Yamanaka Sjujiro. He shows a lot of cabinet builds on his channel, most small cabinets and small full range drivers:
• QWT方式スピーカーボックスの自作
Dear Viewer, the link to the coffee-station, or, as I could call it, the Tea-house is right here:
www.buymeacoffee.com/RealWorldAudio
This is a way to support my channel in a hassle-free manner, and you can contribute as low as 2$ if you feel compelled. If so, I welcome your support with a warm welcome, it goes a long way to allow me to continue with this channel in the future! All your support will go towards improving this channel, and towards the tweaks and components I explore on the channel.
János
More invaluable information. I’d love a data sheet for my drivers or tweeters, but I realistically really won’t get to actually starting to build my cabinets for I’d think at least another month, if not longer. Thank you, Janos.
Safety warning… never put your hand between the fence and the blade. Kickbacks will drag your hand across the blade. Table saw accidents are the number one cause of shop injuries.
You are absolutely correct, great call!
I recenrly checked on the price of raw 4/4 quartersawn tonewood spruce. It costs $30 per square foot and has a one year waiting list. Thanks for that bit of info about using pine.
Wood prices and availability are getting worse and worse for the last two years for high grade wood. It's pretty sad.
Very interesting.
I agree that MDF sounds clinical.
Real wood smells better than the chemical soup MDF is made out of.
Thanks for posting this!
Haha. What kind of drugs did you use. Good quality?
Деревом не имеет ,такой жёсткости , МДФ предпочтительней в изготовление корпусов, и отделку шпоном не кто не отменял
Can folded pipe speaker be built to any size?
Very interesting! I guess a coloured wood stain would be ok?
Yes, absolutely!
Haha. Never heard that painting changes the sound of speaker!!! VOODOO?
It's physics.... anything that vibrates (all loudspeakers vibrate) are affected by dampening (heavy coat of paint has a strong dampening effect). When the loudspeaker cabinet is already heavily dampened, then paint will have a relatively lower impact, but when it's a live cabinet then the paint will have a fundamental impact on the sound. It can transform a dynamic and live cabinet to a restrained and dull one.
That is not more surprising than that painting an acoustic guitar not only changes, but may destroy the sound of it.
is it a valid price comparison - speaker cabinet to violin, if you consider the hours taken for construction? I believe the resonance of the wood in a stringed instrument transmitting vibrations of a string has a very differnt transmission role to the wood of a speaker cabinet where the loudspeaker creates compression waves in the air and you need to dampen resonance.
Thank you Al, fantastic question, with deep ramifications! I will answer with video ; Janos
@@realworldaudio I will look forward to that ;)
Do you calculate the height from the base of the speaker to the tip(bottom) of the folded triangle?
Hi Dan, I always work with the internal diameters. Cheers, Janos
How do think bamboo would be as a speaker cabinet material for a Voight pipe speaker?
I think it would work very well!
I am fascinated by this design. Thank you for showing this explanation. This is a special design and I think it is within my reach. Where can I learn how to design my own?
I would suggest to look for examples that people have built, and adapt your own design based on them. The method I used was taking an existing Voigt pipe design (straight or TQWP - folded, like the one in the video above), and adapting it for a different driver. I will make a video on the adaptation process I followed & share my Voigt pipes dimensions, and what one would need to do to redesign it for the driver of your choice.
@@realworldaudio thank you. Your video is really the ONLY English language explanation of this style. Online searches are really not useful. I've been digging and still keep coming back to your video. I have watched it probably ten times.
@@danbuffington75 Thank you Dan! I've been planning to go deep into the design and application principles for Voigt pipes, what to look for, what to expect, how the specifics affect the sound, & show online sources / resources.
@@realworldaudio I'm excited to learn more about it. I subscribed already, so I'll keep my eye out for more videos about these types of enclosures. I'm also interested in the mass loaded transmission line speakers, but honestly, I think this design get the same result without the stress of having to model the box. I can't wait to build some and start experimenting.
@@danbuffington75 Thank you Dan! Indeed, the MLTLs are much more finicky to get right - the Voigt pipes are far easier and more practical in comparison, and much harder to mess up.
What wood thickness is preferred? It looks like quite thin.
20mm / 3/4in hardwood is a good choice. With plywood, you could go down to 1/2in thick ply if you can find very nice quality. (If not so good quality ply is available, then go with 3/4in thick).
Good day!
Can these cabinets be scaled up for a two way driver system with 7 inch and 1 inch drivers?
I have CSS Criton 1TD-X kit speakers I built made of mdf with a rear port design.
They sound a little dead across the entire frequency range and have a bit of a one note bass tone.
Any thoughts?
Thank you
I think the sound in the video is totally un-representative of the design. Also, here a tiny driver is used, (which is standard in Japan), but I recommend a 6.5in - 8in driver. So yes, the 7in will work well, and you can add the 1in tweeer. Folded pipes are very live sounding, and have fast and well-integrated bass response because they are horn loading the bass. Much more natural bass than is characteristic of same size cabinets which try to force bass through pressure mode. Nowdays modern cabinets have active bass, and that of course creates a very powerful response - many love that sound as it gives readily accessible bass volume, but I find that highly mechanic, unnatural. My hearing is sensitive in the bass region, and to me the active or compressed bass just falls short in the quality department.
Thank you. I appreciate your thoughts!
I think I will give the cabinets shown here a try.
My CSS Audio drivers and crossovers are good quality.
Maybe these boxes will open their sound up and take out the ported base boost that is bothering me.
@@robertyoung1777 Have fun! They will definitively open up the sound, and get rid of the port-sound. When scaling the cabinet size: the taller the cabinet, the deeper the frequencies it supports. (As base is formed by horn loading / wavelength tuning, not by porting. It works as an organ pipe...)
I've heard a few things and would like to get confirmation, if you don't mind...
1. Regarding the box frequency, it should be the same as the speaker resonant frequency (fs). That makes sense to me. Is it correct?
2. Regarding the port/vent size, is it supposed to equal the size of the speaker, somehow?
Hi Dan, sorry, YT did not show your comment in the updates.
1., Yes, tuning the box to a similar frequency (or same) as driver Fs is a great starting point.
2., Yes, about same size for port as driver surface works very well for Voigt pipes!
Is there a certain angle to the folded part? It looks consistent in all of the videos that I've watched.
Hi Dan, the dimensions of both straight and folded pipes are 5:1 to 7:1 for height - depth ratio, and the fold angle follows these dimensions.
@@realworldaudio okay, great! Thank you!
У меня вопрос почёму вы не заполнили трубу Войта , звукопоглатитилем ?
Could this be built with bamboo plywood?
Yes, it would be very good!
I can’t imagine using “tone wood” for a box enclosure.
Tone wood used in stringed instruments is a radiating surface that reinforces and amplifies the sound of the instrument. Luthiers go to great lengths to tune these plates to the instrument.
Using spruce or cedar (used in guitars too) will only give you a somewhat flexible box that is probably radiating uncontrolled frequencies that may be perceived as being “musical”. This is just additional, non-recorded sound.
So unless you’re “tap-tuning” or using a setup to generate chladni patterns on the “plates”, you’re probably just building a hit or miss box that is not reproducing what was recorded.
Just as loudness is perceived as “better” by the masses, all the harmonics being generated by the flexible box surfaces is coloring what you’re hearing. Professional speaker designers have gone to great lengths to remove the box from the equation.
Interesting. However, Spruce, and especially the Sitka Spruce (which is used for pianos in US) grows fast and grows big. In my country it is an invasive species.. All standard construction lumber here is spruce. Also it is perhaps the least sought after wood furniture making. It is not even sold as firewood.
The man in the video is using the cheapest class D Lepai amp. I know it will work fine since these speakers don't require much power. Will a more expensive amplifier make a notable difference?
Don't think about terms of expense. It's about refinement - which might come at a cost or at an effort. I do not recommend that kind of amp that he is using with it, it's a real waste of the speaker, like a violin played with a plastic bow.
@@realworldaudio I have comparable speakers to the ones shown in the video. EMS LB5 driver + 1/4 wave transmission line in plywood. The question is what amp? Everything sounds good to my ears.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q A low powered push pull amp will be affordable and perfect... if you live in the US, then my choice would be a used Quicksilver or CJ...
@@realworldaudio I live in France. A seller recommended a Unison Research Simply Italy. It's over 2000€! I just use a Continental Edison PA 9109. It sounds fine to me.
3 more subs and you will have your 1k my friend !
It went super fast! :)
The tonewood argument is just utterly false IMO. You want the cabinet to be as sonically dead as possible so the speaker reproduces the signal without colouration...with stringed Instruments, the opposite applies.
To further illustrate my point: By your philosophy, I could create the ultimate loudspeaker by taking a thruster exciter and glue it to the back of a Cello. Obviously thats gonna result in a terrible speaker.
The phsyics is too complex to answer in a comment. I have about a dozen videos on this subject for more detail. In brief: there's no such thing as a cabinet that does not affect the sound. ALL cabinets affect the sound. The choice is how. And that's the one that takes a while to explore. Thank you for your comment! ;
BTW your analogy on the cello does not fit. The correct analogy is a cello made of tonewood versus MDF.... or a tuba made of concrete instead of brass.
Or, going with your analogy the right comparison is glue MDF to a cello or glue a piece of tonewood.
@@realworldaudio every speaker effects sound -> true. However one should use the material that gets us as close to a sonically dead enclosure as possible. And that's probably not solid spruce...tonewood spruce is pretty light, too and not that stiff. Another thing that is not desirabe in a cabinet. Heavier enclosure material will get excited less. Mahagony or Wenge would probably be better in stiffness and weight. Either way, I just don't agree with the instrument analogy since they try to achieve opposite things