The Early Church on Entertainment
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- Gavin Ortlund explores how the early church viewed entertainment in the Roman Empire.
Truth Unites (www.truthunites.org) exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth.
Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is President of Truth Unites and Theologian-in-Residence at Immanuel Nashville.
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00:00 - Introduction
01:14 - 1) Entertainment Then and Now
08:13 - 2) The Shaping Role of Entertainment
21:09 - 3) Grace to Heal From Entertainment
24:29 - Two Suggestions
27:48 - Three Cautions
33:58 - Following Christ Leads to Joy - Zábava
I remember the day when I realized that through the power of the gospel, I could be made pure again. I could be innocent. I could have motivations of love instead of desire. Oh what a glorious day it was! Then, to look back over the years and to see it actually taking place? “Worthy is the lamb who was slain!” is all I can say.
amen!
🙏🙏
Praise Christ!
Worthy He is, indeed!
Praise be to God!
When you said "be free of it" it reminded me of my own realization and desire for freedom when I finally repented and it is so good. God has rescued me from sin and is working in me day by day. My struggle with entertainment now lies more in the distraction it can pose. Even in this I know the Lord will see me through, but it is a struggle especially after a long day to not watch that Office episode for the 9000th time and instead do something constructive for the kingdom or for my family or even for myself. The passivity of entertainment is a danger that underlines all the other dangers it poses. And I have to admit I'm not doing a great job in this area. Beautiful teaching, Gavin thank you for continuing to surface these jewels of wisdom from our ancient brothers and sisters.
Adultery is certainly learned. Here in Brazil we have a TV channel called "Globo" which shifted the morality of the population MASSIVELY via its soap operas. When exporting its soap operas to Cabo Verde in Africa, its populace gradually experienced a massive increase in adultery via the subtle messages of "acceptable adulteries" portrayed in the soap operas, as well.
Brasil mencionado ✝🟨🟩
Huehuehue brbr
"Entertainment is catechesis" is very true, never heard someone phrase it like that before. Good stuff Gav
For me the most fundamental lesson I learned from the Holy Spirit on this topic generally (vice, sin, entertainment, etc) is:
"Until you stop viewing having your ability to kill yourself limited as oppression, you are enslaved to death."
I say it in this way despite it being more confusing sounding because the negative statement of a thing can sometimes be more potent than the positive. You are not more free because you do meth, you are less free. You are not more free because you watch porn, you are less free. These are consuming, enslaving habits that drive you promptly towards demise. That is not freedom. Anything marching you towards death is enslavement. Anything marching you towards life is freedom.
Choose Christ and be free to live and live abundantly.
Amen!
Revenhills quote hit the nail on the head. “Entertainment is the devil’s substitute for joy. The more joy you have in the Lord the less entertainment you need.”
Thanks for sharing. Love Leonard Ravenhill!
Our faith is not that fragile. We can certainly use sanctified common sense to discern more honourable forms of entertainment. Seeking a monastic response is a poor response.
@@karlernstbuddenbrock371 My personal philosophy is it can be good/meutral for rest (kind of like Gavin said) but that you need to be spending *more time* in the Scriptures, or other Christian reading (like the church fathers). EDIT: And also not every day and not when you have more important stuff. I pray I'm right about this, because I do tend towards Scrupuloscity but was very lax before
But what kind of entertainment? Even heavily religious movies like the ones of Tarkovsky or books like the Quixote can be labeled as "entertainment"
I think that you can learn a lot from TV for instance. Documentaries, travel programmes etc are a great source of knowledge, of the world, of how things work and something of other people’s lives, which connect us with the realities of life. I wouldn’t watch so-called comedy programmes or soap operas, as they are an insult to any Christian’s intelligence! Discernment is the key!
I've recently spent 4 hours playing "Bunny Garden" (an anime dating simulator) yesterday. I went to bed at 1am. Pastor, you don't realise how blessed this video is to me this day 😂. Repentance all the way. I will change through christ. Introverted male young adults are doomed in this entertainment world. 😅
Let even your introverted character be transformed by Christ!
I used to be that way, but now I’m both extro and intro when needed although my basic nature is still there but infused by His grace.
My heart is with you man
You can be introverted and not be on dating simulators lol
Doing a study on food by the church fathers is also fascinating
So far they were definitely against overeating, calling it a minor sin (St. Clement of Alexandria)
I was thinking the same thing. That'd be a good video, Gavin!
Got to stop polluting my mind with things that I'd usually call fun. Have to reform my mind. God's grace is sufficient. God bless you immensely ❤🙏✝️
I agree that much of what we view as entertainment today is actually just glorifying sin, but a point that also needs to be remembered is how prone to asceticism the early church was. See, for example, Clement of Alexandria's views on hiccuping or smiling.
But in general, sure:
-Avoid shows that glorify sexual immorality or violence.
-Consider whether you're being entertained into passivity or unproductivity.
-Always ask yourself, "what is it I'm enjoying about this show?" If it's sinful, let it go.
But also remember that storytelling, humor, and imagination are simply tools. They can be used for good or ill. The medium is not the message, and we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Hiccupping? Oh please tell! What was bad about hiccupping?! I myself am plagued by violent hiccups hence my interest.
"The problem with entertainment is not that it has too much joy in it, but that it deadens joy." So true! But let us not be among those who forsake worldly pleasures but make no strong connection with heavenly ones. John 10v10
Ah, now I see why Augustine was so against the theaters in his writings (I am currently reading The City of God). I thought that in the theaters there were plays like Shakespeare's or Sophocles's tragedies and thought that Augustine is too harsh on entertainment in general. Now I see that I was wrong.
I just want to say, thank you for being sensitive to the obsessive compulsive tendencies of your viewer. As someone who suffers from intense OCD, things like this can bring a lot of anxiety, but you handled this very well and with lots of compassion.
When you were talking about how violence on screen is more than just the fact that the actor doesn't actually die; I couldn't help but think about that line in Gladiator, where Russell Crowe kills the guys, and then screams "Are you not entertained!?". Honestly, I could never get it out of my head that the director intended that question just as much for the audience of his film, as for the audience IN the film, and ever since I understood it in that way, I have found myself grimacing at the gruesome brutality in not just that film, but others as well. I don't get joy out of seeing people savagely dispatched. That said, I think there is merit to violence playing a pivotal role in the aid of storytelling. You can be grossed out, and disturbed when the storyteller intends you to be.
I can't help but think, beyond war movies (Saving Private Ryan, etc.) and the like (Gladiator) which intend to make killing disturbing, movies that use over the top gruesomeness in some profane or trite way are really an attack or diminishment of the image of God. It's become clearer to me that those creating these worlds where the loss of life is flippant or even comical take lightly the sacredness of man and help their audiences to do so in the real world. I especially appreciate idea about entertainment being a catechism is so on point here.
Just found this channel while doing research on Eastern Orthodoxy. This guy is very knowledgeable and seems to value the need for intellectual satisfaction when it comes to some of the more key theologies.
I tell my kids and my students that every time they sing their songs they are meditating. It was hard for me where my own music wasn’t as ubiquitous as it is today.
This is an excellent video … deserves a part two …. Like it’s so hard especially when you are tired after the days work … to not just seek entertainment…. It’s hard to retrain ourselves to seek entertainment that is edifying or atleast does not deaden ur affections for Christ …. It’s an interesting point about catechesis … I wonder if that’s the reason so many of new movies and tv shows push their lgbtq agenda and very rarely are Christian’s portrayed in good light also in them……it’s hard to be vigilant in ur downtime and to use ur downtime profitably … but feel like this is a major area the enemy is active….eager to hear more good ideas about healthy ways to have downtime without contaminating ur soul… please share more ideas/ strategies or another video on this
This was a very good video. I really appreciated it. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and these convicting calls from the church fathers. On the note of encouragement, as I heard you speak Cyril's well known quote kept ringing in my ears: "Your accumulated offenses do not surpass the multitude of God's mercies; your wounds do not surpass the Great Physician's skill."
"your wounds do not surpass the Great Physician's skill" -- love that
Haha I was really worried about where I thought this was heading because I can think of certain movies where tragic events (sometimes involving violence) are depicted as part of the story, and I feel like to class all of that as bad would do real damage to art generally. However, you recognized the same towards the end. Great video.
Good ol Gavin always dropping pertinent content to keep us sober and introspective
Chrysostam would watch Truth Unites.
Love does not delight itself in evil but rejoices with the truth. This is kinda my go to verse as a writer, and also as a watcher/reader. I don't want to create or consume anything that asks the viewer to call something evil good or vice versa, and I don't want voyeurism (e.g. asking the viewer to take pleasure in violence rather than using it to tell a 'true' story.)
Man, a few things you said in this video surely convicted me. Bravo, Dr. Ortlund. May the Lord bless you!
Great video! I believe the key of discerning your personal boundaries in media is when you start to glorify, or nullify the evil that is occurring in it. That line can be different for many people so discernment is important. Once again a very good watch, and very informative!
I've been pursuing novel writing and even scriptwriting as a hobby, but this is good conviction and a reminder that I shouldn't just be writing to gratify myself but make sure what I'm promoting is virtuous.
Dr. Gavin! Great video, just a quick suggestion on something else.
Maybe you could make a video about the recently released document from the Dicastery for promoting Cristhian Unity called "The bishop of Rome". The Catholic Church is changing their position about some arguments that have been on debate about that the papacy.
God bless you.
Thank you, Dr. Ortlund! I've been thinking about this a long time and it especially hit me when I watched gladiator, because I wondered what the difference between me as a viewer and the actual viewers in the time of the Romans was. On top of this purity is a constant struggle. Please pray that the Lord would guide me to a clean and beautiful path.
One of the most convicting scriptures that helped shape me in choosing reading and movies is found in Psalm 11:5, “he who loves violence my soul hates.” I love mysteries but I choose them carefully. Dorothy Sayers and Ellis Peters (Brother Cadfael especially) are two of my favorite authors. Richard Osman is fun and funny and so is Martha Grimes. But I draw the line at an author’s preoccupation with the gruesome and twisted, for example Patricia Cornwell. Just my own personal conviction!
Thanks so much for this, Gavin. I am saving this to use in teaching my children.
I feel like I know I keep repeating it over and over again but thank you soooooo much dearest brother Gavin. What a subject to tackle and how brilliant a job you have done again! Love your pastoral conclusions full of wisdom.
God bless
Most of us will be watching this video with constant distraction from our devices, necessitating a proper and careful listening of this video at a dedicated time.
It's story time with Dr. Gavin Ortlund! Always something to learn. God bless you immensely 🙏❤️✝️
Is Dr. a Biblical title? Jesus commanded against such titles amongst the brethren. Matthew 23: 8-12
@@1Whipperin Please show me in the Bible where Jesus said not to use a title called doctor. Do you call your dad father?? Jesus says not to do that from your logic too 💀
@@raphaelfeneje486Matthew 23: 8-12 Jesus commanded against titles amongst the brethren. Calling your dad father is in reference to your family and biological relationship and is not a title amongst the brethren so that is not what Jesus commanded against. All believers are equal. There is no hierarchy in the Church. Paul never referred to himself as Apostle Paul. He referred to himself as Paul, an apostle.
@@1Whipperin You literally refuted yourself. Matt.23.9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Is father a title your dad was given when he was born?? LOL. Paul, an apostle. Is the "apostle" a title or a name given to Paul?? That's the same as Doctor Gavin. Stop reading into the Bible what it doesn't intend. Jesus clearly was talking about those Pharisees that were acting as though they were above everyone. Aaron the highpriest is a title. We can say Highpriest Aaron! Your argument is moot!! We can say Apostle Paul because Paul is an Apostle and that's a title, not his biological name. You've literally turned to the Pharisees that were trying to legalize religion.
Thank you for the edifying truth in this video. God bless you :D
Time-stamp
7:05 - 1 Timothy 6:8 and Proverbs 30:8
8:29 - entertainment is formative, a teaching
I love this. I found "The Dangers of a Shallow Faith" by AW Tozer and "The Mortification of Sin in Believers" by John Owen great in this area. Also I remember RC Sproul teaching on Christian liberty, the weaker brother and legalism that was extremely helpful in understanding these things in Scripture and in life better.
Great video Gavin. I really appreciate your coverage of these subjects. Providing different angles and a sober look at difficult topics.
Edit* I also appreciate your respond to how people may potentially or initially respond. This is one thing I also appreciate from early Church history. How when writing letters they anticipate responses because the response from the reader will not be immediate and may not come at all.
When it comes to depictions today, it depends on whether it's depicted in a way that's supposed to make the audience applaud it or detest it. Both happen. A lot of it also depends on whether the victim is an innocent victim or an oppressor being stopped, and many things get into that gray area in between.
I disagree. I think the main difference that is important is if the violence on the screen is intended to entertain or not.
Well that was convicting and thought provoking… thanks Gavin lol
This blessed me and convicted me in exactly the way it needed to. Thank you Gavin 🙏
Really fantastic video Gavin. Thankyou very much! Only 7 minutes in haha
Always appreciate the balanced approach from this channel. Thank you, Dr. Ortlund.
A very edifying reflection here. St. Basil's "Address to Young Men on Greek Literature" is also helpful on this topic.
For anyone who sees this: He basically says that there are good and virtuous things in pagan literature/poets/etc. but we must avoid the bad and not allow it to poison our souls and minds with vice, immorality, murder, etc.
Thank you for posting this
This was great! Thanks for the insightful commentary. I feel like we can’t admonish anyone about their entertainment without coming across judgmental and at the same time be gracious toward others and their walk with Christ
and to look at our own hearts first.
Very well done and a much needed topic. Contemporary entertainment has become repulsive to Christianity and we, and myself in particular, would do well to remember that.
Great words, thanks for making this. This is a topic I have wondered about for awhile now.
Thank you for this, Gavin. So good
Thanks Gavin, great video!!!
Thank you for this brother i needed to see this
Really grateful for this video!
Love this video. Rich in thought and super honest… Your three cautions at the end is what I deeply appreciate - the pastoral care you extend is deeply cherished by me! Oh my soul rejoices in Christ my Good shepherd, oh how my wondering soul needs him every hour.
I've been critical of your interpretations of the Fathers in the past, but you got this one exactly right. We Christians of all faiths must do more to guard our eyes, ears and passions from all worldly things that separate us from God. We all succumb to the passions of the flesh from time to time. If we're going to have a spiritual life in Christ, we must focus on Christ all the time. That's why the Jesus prayer is so fundamental to Orthodox Christians, particulary when we have a worldly desire. I'm the first to admit that I fail all the time, but to have an awareness of what is separating me from Christ gets me back on track. Remember the Lord's Prayer we are to keep His name holy, bring the kingdom of Heaven to this world and to do God's will here on earth. It's not about what we have to do to get to heaven, it is wanting to be united with Christ right now in all we do and in all of our relationships, particulary with those with whom we disagree.
Great video, blessings!
Such an impactful discussion with great reminders and conviction! I recently came across a couple of quotes that have challenged my choices of entertainment: "The degree to which you walk in the anointing of God is in direct proportion to the amount of darkness you allow in your life." and "If we care more about our entertainment than the defilement it brings to our spirit, I believe we have discovered an idol." Having a clean conscience and the joy of the Lord is more important than a few fleeting moments of pleasure.
Wonderful video! It's refreshing to look at church history and see beyond specific doctrines and debates. For a while I've felt that Christians have fell short in this area, especially with consuming TV shows. I always wonder to myself where people find the time to watch so much to begin with!
I've been to the Coliseum in Rome and I specifically recall a football stadium coming to mind as I walked the steps to see the numbers on the aisle, rows, and seats.
That's very cool as a topic!
Still trying to get used to you in a screen again after I managed to meet you in Rome last week. 😂
great to meet you! :)
It was really wonderful!
I am a Roman Catholic but a huge fan of your ministry.
To get an autograph of yours was awesome and you were so kind in taking my card.
Thanks for this amazing experience :)
Very well done!
I spent basically the first 40 years of my life addicted to TV. I had a collection of over 1000 movies, lots of TV shows, and 100s of video games. After I became a Christian I came to realize how sinful it all really was, and the Holy Spirit convicted me to repent of it all. I've gotten rid of all if it, and I only watch Christian content now, mostly on CZcams.
It wasn't until I became free from the adduction to cultural entertainment that I realized the true extent of the damage it had done. It's difficult to put it into words, but people think it's no big deal, and it's way more serious than they realize.
When people think of p*rn they think of only the stuff labeled as such. The truth is that most of the entertainment we consume is also p*rn in one form or another. Whether it's vulgar humor, or just all of the very suggestive visuals, or even the glorification of violence. I spent way too much of my life watching it all. To the point where I have a substantial amount of it burned into my brain.
I realize now that I wasn't just watching it. I was worshiping it, as most people are. When you devote that much time out of your life to something, that is a form of worship. When you repent of it, none of it really tastes the same anymore, and you can see how captive everyone is to their worship of entertainment.
Very insightful!
Phenomenal video
Very timely! 🙏🏽
The day after the premiere of House of the Dragon. I definitely feel convicted.
@@user-ug5rb6qi4r Haha, let us turn to God & honor Him with our life :)
So when it comes to these questions, of entertainment or whatever, I think St. Pauls words in Corinthians should be considered:
"All things are lawful to me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
Simply put, do you consume the entertainment, or does it consume you? That's the question we should be asking ourselves as Christians.
Amen.
Great video, I was very encouraged. Thanks for the reminder about God's grace.
If you think I'm gonna actually sit here and watch a 36 minute video about if church fathers back in the day would watch TV....well you'd be right
Thank you for striving to be faithful brother. The more I read the church fathers and lives of early saints, the more I see the grave disorder and sin of our culture and realize Christ truly is calling us to radical obedience. Honorable faithfulness will make us “weird” to the world’s eyes. But we were warned that the wisdom of the world is foolishness to God. May we be foolish for our King.
Regarding one of your final admissions that you are currently thinking deeply about this topic and how obedience actually looks in real situations, as well as the accompanying question for input and if you missed anything, I would like to offer a principle to consider that allows for the appropriate discernment of how to engage with culture and media in a holy way.
You asked something similar to, “is it ok to watch violence in media?” It seems to me the answer is:
It depends on how you internally experience the violence.
If you see it and it prompts the appropriate emotions of sadness; righteous indignation; alarm; or disgust, then it is probably not sinful. That is the appropriate emotional response to violence in our daily lives, so it should be our response when viewing it in media.
If, on the other hand, we feel joy or excitement or even nothing at all, that is revealing a disorder within our emotive faculty. We are not interpreting the stimuli correctly, thus leading to a disordered-and by definition evil-emotional response.
Let me illustrate that in an example.
Two parent may watch a film to decide if it is admissible for their child to watch (a virtuous practice you would probably agree). If, in the film, an unexpected scene transpires that contains excessive cruel violence and one parent feels disgust and sadness while the other finds comical enjoyment in seeing the “bad guys get what they deserve,” then it is my assertion that the first parent did not sin while viewing the film while the second parent did. The meaning the first parent ascribed to the scene and the subsequent emotional response was right. The other parent sinned, because they “missed the mark” of how a holy person should respond to such stimuli.
This obviously has grand implications for the rituals and preferences we have for media. For, a person who is offended or saddened by such violence will not be in the habit of viewing such content frequently. They may from time to time because a greater good is perceived to be attained (The Passion film is a good example; we don’t derive joy from watching the Holy One suffer in His incarnation, but it is a historical fact that is necessary to convey the meaning of the story and be reminded of the human condition).
On the contrary, if a professed believer watches violent films because “I just like them,” well, that should be a cause for alarm and examination of conscience for the same reason given by the blessed church fathers you quoted in this video.
I hope that is helpful in your reflection. I’m happy to hear your response if you believe it to be useful.
Great study!
Thank you
Really edifying! Thanks for posting. I am reading Presley's Cultural Sanctification. It would be helpful and fun to hear you two in a give and take conversation about the early Church and how we live today.
Very thankful for this video. Honestly, growing up in a somewhat fundamentalist home, I sort of went to the other side of the spectrum and have not given very much thought as to the kind of media I exposed myself to in my adult life. My brother went to film school, and I was very influenced by a lot of the movies and shows he was watching, although I in no way blame him. I think he was kind of reacting to that fundamentalist attitude as well. I can definitely see some movies, like Lord of the Rings or even something grittier like No Country for Old Men, express violence to tell a story rather than to revel in the violence or make light of it. However, I wonder about movies like John Wick or Guardians of the Galaxy where violence is done in a flippant and careless way, and the violence itself is what is entertaining. Honestly, I haven't thought about this seriously until now. Thank you for bringing this to my heart. I will be meditating on it.
Another thought I have now is whether taking out some of the blood and guts from violent movies in the past actually made things worse. Like, it's hard to take a scene of violence seriously when there 's nothing shocking about it. I wonder if this helped desensitize us to the point where now, gratuitous gore is present even in movies that treat violence flippantly. It's almost like taking out the gore was a step towards normalizing violence, which is now normalized with gore.
YES! Very thankful for the last remarks about art. I totally agree that we have to "recapture" the different areas of art as Christians. As an aspiring game developer I hope to be able to contribute my part in this very youngest form of art :) Making games is hard, but it is good.
Also, very important remarks about "how are things depicted" or, as I would describe it, "what is the intention of the work".
This was great. Thanks for engaging in this topic so honestly. I see christians many times on these types of topics doing mental gymnastics, trying to justify enjoying things that the world enjoys.
So glad you brought this up. Ive been in the MMA scene for over a year now and there is... a LOT of sin. But I enjoy martial arts, I enjoy sparring and Ive had the opportunity to share the gospel with some of the guys at my gym. I also enjoy playing videogames - I found my time spent in this area has decreased significantly the more I spend time with the Lord in prayer and study (well, duh), but I still come around to it here and there and find opportunities to share the gospel with other sincere gamers. Ultimately, I've been asking myself 1) "How does this affect the posture of my heart towards Christ?" and 2) Is this pulling me away from time spent with the Lord?
I love playing battlefield with my dad and brothers as a team. But I do struggle with how the violence might be affecting my head. And how entertaining it is. I may need to strip it from my life.
It is worth taking some time away from it for discernment if you feel a conviction. I did something similar for awhile, and though I "came back" to playing similar things, the time of study and fasting helped me see my pass times in a newer, hopefully healthier light.
@@ottovonbaden6353 Thanks for sharing your experience!
Psalm 11 warns us that God hates those who love Violence, "The LORD tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence". Psalm 11 verse 5 , ESV.
Whatever you do, get that Game, and all other Violent Games out of your Life, Now! as I *did* get my head flipped by Violent Games, and believe me, You do not want to go there, they lead to Bloodlust, Uncontrollable Hatred and Rage, White Supremacist Politics, and a Hatred of Humanity that leaves you Wanting to watch the Whole world Burn, oh yes, Violent Games will do all that to You, I know, they did it to me. God, in His Mercy, freed me from all that in the Lord Jesus Christ, I cannot even look at a Screenshot for one now without feeling Physically sick, but believe me, they mess with your head, so, please, for your own good, *Stop Playing them* !
Love and Peace.
Thank you 💙👊🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻✝️🙌🏻
The problem with things such as various entertainments is usually not that they are bad in themselves, but because they tend to distract us from the greater good of the eternal goal, and they tend to distract us from walking the difficult narrow way that leads to the future eternal life to be awarded on Judgment Day to those who persevere till the end in obedience to Jesus’ various commandments/laws.
As Jesus said:
“Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least [by those] in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does these commandments and teaches them will be called great [by those] in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt 5.19-20)
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practise LAWLESSNESS [ie you who disregarded the laws I commanded in Matt 5.20 onwards].’” (Matt 7.21-23)
I wrestle with this subject too, so I appreciate the pastoral thoughts and balance here. I have found the concepts of "do all things to the glory of God" and "do not cause a brother to stumble" to be very helpful here in the discernment process.
Regarding violence, I understand your point about training the conscience, but the difference you mentioned between the actual killing in the gladiator arena and that in a movie/video game is still a critical one. There is a spectrum between glorifying real violence and kids playing cops and robbers with water guns. I have similar thoughts about slapstick humor, not that I get to define the rules. :) The more something in media impersonates the real thing, the more seriousness needs to be applied to it. Also, if it intends to awaken sin even if it is unrealistic, that would be a problem as well.
The issue is that violence in media has never shown to change behavior, especially the same way that sexual sin does. There's a reason why Jesus warns against even looking in lust but does not do the same with looking at violence. There is no denying that there is an impact. But to put it on the same level of sexual sin would be a grave error. The violence also depends on the context of it. Is it for fun or is it to illustrate a tragedy (aka are we glorifying it or using it as a device to demonstrate realities of life like the scriptures use violence)? It is important to know that violence is not a black and white issue.
When you talked about violence in enterteinment I could not stop thinking about violent video games! Any thoughts on these?
Amazing to see God delivering people with similar struggles today as then like for me porn has been a struggle for years recently I’m learning how to overcome only with the strength and wisdom of the Lord pray for me for I continue to struggle but a blessing to see
Thank you for the advice! I do believe that through discernment we can find even seemingly horrific media, replete with death and sexual immorality like Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul to be catechistic in a positive way, because even those shows themselves show the devastating and unenvious those things are. I was never tempted by drugs, but Breaking Bad also cemented my aversion to that, and both of these shows demonstrate what terrible consequences pride leads to. As I watched those shows (and many others) I kept thinking “if only they had Christian values none of those people would’ve been hurt”
I know that this was in address to what the Early Church thought regarding entertainment, but the thought that I had always received was narrative pointing of a story and whether it was elevating us towards virtue or degrading our thoughts. The benchmark for the content within the story for said narrative purpose was always the Bible itself.
Amen and amen!
Hi Gavin, please take up Capturing Christianity's offer to discuss the issue of war rape with Randal Rauser. He's a good faith interlocutor and he poses good objections.
I reckon that the "fornication" forbidden in Acts 15. 20 & 29 referred to the entertainments common among the ancient pagans (and now sadly very much present in our own day via TV, film, concerts, theatre etc.).
You only have to watch entertainments for about 20 to 30 years before you begin to realize that they have begun t o repeat themselves. You begin seeing the same plots, the same themes, the same arguments dressed up in different clothes. That's when you realize that you've been sucking on an empty straw all your life. I think C.S. Lewis said something like "we often chose pleasure rather than joy because pleasure is easier to come by."
I grew up in a Christian tradition that, in its inception, believed that a Christian should only the read the Bible. That started to lose its grip when the men decided it wasn't evil to have television for watching ball games. Two books I found helpful for finding a balance:
The Liberated Imagination: Thinking Christianly About the Arts by Leland Ryken
The Christian, the Arts, and Truth: Regaining the Vision of Greatness by Frank E. Gaebelein
Regarding coarse joking, here's what Proverbs 26:18-19 says:
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbour and says, “I am only joking!”
There could be so much great art made that simply isnt. There could be art that inspires the good, courage, perseverance, mercy, friendship, ect. Thats why Lord of the Rings never gets old. Its just a good tale with actual lessons.
I really enjoyed the points you made towards the end. Specifically in relation to art and discernment over how Christians should engage with entertainment.
When you brought up violence or “rated R” movies and the possible legalism that some Christians may subscribe to there: I was thinking how my views have been challenged and have shifted some throughout the years. Personally I also look at the context of the story in a film or tv show. I don’t always do things perfectly but I think a good way I discern what I choose to watch or even play (if o play a video game) is the overall themes, story, characters, and message. I may not always agree with characters choices but if film and art help us be more empathetic as Christians, or if the stories depict the sinful and broken side of humanity well enough (without be too indulgent) then I’d say that engagement with and even enjoyment of those medium can help us really think and wrestle with the deeper aspects of the human experience. At least that is my take. Of course we rely on Christ for our purification for sin, and rest in his grace (PTL). But as a fan of movies, video games, and even music, I can’t help but think you are hitting it spot on with basically promoting us as Christians to be mindful of what be partake in, and how to appropriately engage with art, culture, (entertainment etc) in a more godly and thoughtful way!
I am particularly disturbed by violence against women and children in film. We all tell ourselves that it is make believe but there are a couple of problems with that.
First, it is made to look real for a reason. Was there some degree of abuse that actually occurred? Even if not, we know how women and child actors are treated in the industry and it's NOT good.
Second, we see the violence and it affects us (since we can't actively stop the abuse, it creates a passive sense of helplessness in us). At what point are we partakers in a sense that is similar to watching the Gladiators? Again - even if it's not real.
As far as watching rated R movies intimacy and sex, well, if I wouldn't watch somebody do something in real life, how the HECK does it make it okay to watch it on film? Does it sanitize it somehow? Make it less deviant to watch? Would any of us really sit next to someone's bed and watch them do what they do on film?
We have rationalized and justified this sinful and truly sick behavior to death.
Yep! I justified it as a young christian, but when I truly became born again and the Holy Spirit lives in me it disgusts me. Only the Holy Spirit can transform our mind.
These are the profound ideas that Bring conviction from Holy Spirit. It is sad that we are so lax in our false ideas of individual freedom.
Christ is pure and he calls us to that purity
Thanks for this reminder. I often feel like we (myself included) have no conception of God’s holiness.
I do not think that seeing something bad in itself it bad; it is only bad when we are meant to see the bad thing as a good thing. So, I don't mind seeing a criminal in a movie, so long as he's not the main character and you're not meant to root him on. I don't mind seeing adultery in a movie, so long as it's not portrayed as romantic and the plot doesn't just serve to justify the adultery. I don't mind seeing murder, so long as it actually appears brutal. Real life has bad things in it, so if we are unwilling to see those things, it means that we are unwilling to learn about or accept the world the way it really is. It is only when we take pleasure in bad things being made to seem good that it is bad.
My only worry is about the actors doing it. How would it affect them? It pains to imagine that you might stumble so that others can be edified or something. Obviously, in books and pictures, no one is involved, so no issues there ig.
I remember going online once and typing "was Paul a fan of sports or the Olympics?", since he mentions them often in his letters. But that question quickly got answered when the resource I found pointed out they were used as a form of worship or celebration to the gods. Plus considering the fact that all the competitors were naked it really puts into full view how worldly it all was.
The reason he most likely makes allusion to it is because these were aspects of roman life and culture his audience would quickly understand, seing how it was a prevalent part of their daily life.
Pastor Ortlund, how do you think the discussion in this video apply to more interactive forms of entertainment, such as video games? Is it sinful to play violent video games?
Pastor? Where in the Bible did anyone have the title Pastor? Thank you.
Real missed opportunity here. The title could’ve been: “Did The Early Church Watch TV?” 😂
That would have been great!!!
St. Alfons de Ligouri was an Italian Priest who lived in times where a lot of the other christians, also a lot of the other clerics were lazy. He prayed around 8 hours a day, was around 10 hours was working. And the rest was for resting and eating.
I've always thought that the church needs a more articulated theology of fun, especially on the local church level. One of the biggest misconceptions that I find in non-Christians is the idea that being Christian involves never having any fun of any kind...I always think of Mencken's line that puritanism is the fear that someone, somewhere, might be happy. This misconception is probably due, in part, to a distorted view of "fun," but I also think that there is a tradition of Christians viewing fun/pleasure with suspicion, as if it's at best a waste of time and, at worst, sinful in some way.
Also, we need to be clear with our definitions, as "fun" or "entertainment" or "pleasure" can encompass a wide range of activities and seem to largely be relevant to each individual. Like, Christians probably shouldn't be watching snuff films or movies with tons of gratuitous sex, but I really don't think that my mom playing solitaire on her computer for 30-minutes a week is the devil's doing.
I disagree with you on a lot, but I really appreciate this video and your comments about the subject.
I've struggled with this in regard to watching UFC and boxing. The conviction arises when I like everyone else gets excited over knockouts. I know i should not be entertained by someone accumulating brain damage.
Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Yes, look more into brain damage and you won't like it anymore. It causes suicidal thoughts and dementia.
@@Psalm19-1 Seems like this would apply to gore and graphic violence! I would also add Matthew 6:22-24 22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is [a]good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is [b]bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
At the same time, those two example are legitimate sports. Some translations even see Paul as alluding to boxing as sport in 1 Cor 9:26. If bodily damage is the concern, then many sports (football, soccer, etc.) can also introduce brain damage.
@@aperson4057 True. But let me clarify, especially in regards to UFC. If a fight ends and both fighters walk away with minimal bruising, people might call it a boring fight. But if the fighters are all bloody and it truly was gruesome then we start heralding it "fight of the year" or something in those lines. So my concern, it seems, is we're less entertained by a technical performance slowly winning by points and would rather see blood and knockouts. BUT, I can't speak for everyone. I'm just noticing my own inclinations and I guess choosing not watch. But I won't judge other Christians that would still watch.
Have you ever read 'The Cross and the Switchblade' by David Wilkerson? In the beginning he explains that he was a small town pastor in Pennsylvania, without much happening to him, but God started doing a work in his heart, and he decided that instead of watching TV in the evenings, he would pray. Then God started doing amazing work through him, founding an addiction recovery programme in New York and the Times Square Church that is now internationally known today. I agree with your conclusions, but I think there's more to add. The devil loves to keep Christians entertained. It's not just a question of conscience and being taught, it's also keeping us busy with something else than Kingdom work.