Question for the community
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- čas přidán 31. 01. 2024
- I have a question I would like to ask the model car building community. I will look forward to your answers.
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The question on 3D printed parts can also be expanded to include resin and PE brass parts. I don't compete myself, and generally avoid the non-styrene parts. I'm an Auld Phart, and haven't embraced "multimedia" yet. When I do build a kit with resin and/or PE brass, my inclination is, if it can't be seen, omit it. And if the kit includes the styrene parts in addition to the resin or brass, I use the styrene. I can see possibly using 3D printed parts at some point, if it's something I really want and simply isn't available in styrene.
Great topic Kim! Resin parts (or 3D printed parts) are a fantastic addition to any model, but just like the kits themselves, the extra parts are just a lump of resin until they are painted and detailed. The parts definitely make great model builders better, but I’m not sure they really improve an average builders finished product.
Definitely apart of a questions I've had before too. (and hope to have a future channel project to get into more of these subjects) Short answer...
The key word for me is compete or competition and there should be well defined rules for anything that is a competition. In nearly every competition environment there is a form of pay to win and why I have little interest in competing in my hobby. I enjoy the shows to see things and interact but definitely take any show award with a grain of salt because it is judged and not scored like other competitions like racing, sports, target sports, etc. where there's a well defined scoring system.
Build what makes YOU happy !
Build as you like, up to the builder to use what ever, grey area really, as you have scratch building, plus 3D parts, point is they both dont come with the kit, there's group kit builds box stock so there you have no added extras, just my 2 bobs worth, main thing is have fun 😊 Have a great weekend coming Kim👊, Cheers🍻🍻🍻🍻 KC 🇦🇺🤝🇩🇰😊👍
There should be different categories for kits using 3D printed parts.
why? Are there separate categories for kits using after market resin parts? After market wheels? Photo etch? Body kits? What makes 3D printing different?
I think the competition between builds having resin/3D/After market detail parts are all fair to compete on the same table. In my opinion execution is where the really factor comes in and if I was judging two Kustom builds, if someone had a build that was a chopped/kustom resin body vs. someone that did all the work themselves very cleanly, the person that did the work and executed would receive more points in that area of the build than the person that cleaned up a resin body etc. I remember some of similar discussions when people started to use more and more detail parts etc.
The main separation should be based on whether it is a contest or a show. I know that in the the 1970s there were major model car contests, like in New York City where the winner got an actual car! Over the decades the grand prizes got smaller while the number of competitors got larger. Then came photo etch, resin, now 3D printing. I never entered contests. Shows are different in that it is just for builders to say "here is what I built this past year". For award winning contests (even if the award is only bragging rights) what was used to build the model should at least be disclosed. In a show it doesn't matter, it's just for show. Sadly, even here in the U.S. shows are going away, due to the skyrocketing costs (mainly renting the venue) to put on a show.
HEY-DAR 👊😎👍: "NO" it's not far for builder's that can afford 3d resin goodies to be able to compete with builders that can't. Just like it's not fair the judges know the names of the model builders BEFORE they judge their models. The only category that's fair is in my opinion is "box stock" but even that category is tainted cause the builders names are still on the card, their names should be on the other side of the card. GOOD Question Kim, now, send me a Shop-Card 😅 Be Watching You Later, (MODEL CAR)🎭(MAN CAVE)
I don't compete so it really doesn't matter to me personally but for people who compete, I'd say it's on the organizers of the contests to have clearly defined categories for competition so that "cheating" can't or doesn't occur. They should also have strict observance of the rules and ban anyone caught "cheating" from competing in the future at their events.
I agree with the sentiment of this post. Separate categories and maybe even one model could fit a couple of categories?
But, the importance is stated in a later post... build what makes you happy.
Hi Kim, I thank you for your question! I agree that technology is kind of affecting the plastic model hobby. Not that it is really good or bad or important to me. I have not participated in a model contest for a long long time but I find that I get more satisfaction in how I can add more detail by making my own, not by buying a lot parts but building my own extras from whatever I have on hand. My current project will include not only a plastic kit but part’s made using styrene, tin plates. Hobby wood, milk cartons, Cardboard tin foil, etc. etc. That is the fun of building models🥴!
Just like resin bodies of the '80s, 3D printed bodies generally still require some work to really make them look right. In a critically judged show, all of those extra details and effort rarely come into play until you're splitting hairs to determine the top dog. If a builder wants to make apparent the amount of work they've put in to modify the kit themselves, it's really on them to document it and have a record available next to the model for the judges to review. I guess it comes down to how bad somebody wants a trophy/award. I can buy a trophy for myself for a lot less money than I spend in time, paint and parts to build my models, and I have a drawer full of plaques and ribbons that nobody (including me) ever sees. It would be a shame to throw them all away, but I don't place much value on them.
I 100% hear the question your asking. I feel if the parts are available to everyone then i say its fair. You will get more pride out of modifying your builds yourself. To ask that question is the same as asking if a good builder scratch built something is it fair to put that up against someone that cant scratch build. My opinion there could be a "box stock" class thats just that box stock. And a modified class for scratch and printed builds JMO
Kim, my last build was built around 3-d parts I received. They made my build what it was supposed to represent era wise. I don't build for show,,that is a whole other ballgame! I am talking of major shows, not local Mom and Pops shows. Otherwise, build what you want! How you want it,,,if you show your build, have fun being there! If you win,, Yippee! If not, take pleasure in the experience. Sniff some glue and have FUN!!
i get what you are saying' i think they should be in diffren classes
Resin and 3D printing has added a new level of detail. I understand that kit parts are much harder to make look "right" but why not use technology to create the best looking model possible?That is what a show or contest should be about. If it bothers folks that much, they can stick to the box stock classes. Not a slam on anyone by any means. 3D printed parts have taken my builds to a level I never thought I could achieve.
I can understand both sides of the 3D resin issue of is it fair or not in contests. But 3D resin is the new kid on the block and it is going to see resistance from many in the community. Resin bodies, parts and photo etched brass have been around for a dozen years or more and have expanded our accessibility of options to take our kits to a higher level. 3D resin parts has just boosted accessory parts to a different level. My feelings are that it is a new and positive step for our hobby. I am not a contest builder but I understand the concerns of competitors that do great work without 3D parts and don't receive the recognition they deserve. Perhaps we have reached a time where a new category of model contest is needed for heavily modified kits.Just a thought. Have a great weekend.
My motto has always been "parts are parts". Use whatever you want, it's all good.
That said, I kind of agree that there should be a scratchbuilt class. Assembling a collection of printed parts is more akin to kitbashing IMO, although some would say that I'm splitting hairs.
If you buy off the shelf parts, yeah it's like kit bashing. If you design your own parts, it's just the next evolution of scratch building.
Personally I think it's okay. To me it's all about the execution on the model. I've seen builds with tons of aftermarket parts on them but were put together poorly. It all come down to over all fit and finish regardless of the material it's made of, Bought or scratch built. Hope that helps. I'll be watching
I agree with Kim on this,,the person who spends hour's on hour's scratch building parts for a model should not be in the same class as someone who spends dollar's on dollars building his model,,nothing wrong with aftermarket parts they're awesome, but the craftsmanship it takes to scratch build parts should outweigh someone's ability to spend money,,that's just my opinion and I'm usually wrong about these things,,,love your show Kim keep them coming buddy later Glen
And Glen, don't spare the drive shaft, lol.
I'm agreeing with you, Glen, but most importantly have fun it's a hobby we want to enjoy 😊
That should be at the discression of the show organizers. I would hope that the builder would divulge what went into their build. I would definately think if the builder used extensive customization and parts from other kits they would want the viewer to know what went into it. This is like in 1 to 1 auto shows, where the owner documents what has been done to it. Granted it could have been done by the previous owner, or mostly by themselves, or paying shops to do the work. Judges and viewers can question the owner. Lastyear a 1 to 1 show I was the organizer and a judge, I was asked by a car owner if the owner of the "best of show" had actually bought his car already restored, or if he paid for/ did the restore? I had my thoughts, but did not know for sure. But for this years show, I will ask more questions myself. That doesn't mean the car would not have still won, but knowledge is power as they say.
Interesting topic. Unfortunately, we don't have many shows here on the West Coast, so I've never competed in one. I've always liked to build custom parts since, for me, it's part of the fun. But the 3d parts are definitely interesting for their amazing detail and bring a whole new level to the build. So I guess I really didn't answer anything 😅.
BTW I remember seeing your monkey mobile online. It's one of the most impressive builds I've ever seen of that kit. It's what they should have built it like. Well done!
I look at Resin the same way I look at Photo Etch, Better detail enhances build
As a couple already said,it depends on contest(where it should make a differenc) or show(where nobody should care)!
3D printed parts IMO are very challenging to remove the layer lines and prep. If it’s a whole kit competing with scratch fabrication maybe a new class should be introduced. Overall the 3D parts are difficult to work with and just helps to recreate the realism we’re after.
Here's my take on this brother, I see both sides I get it. So I think to make it fair reasonably shows should just have a class for resin body entries. 😊
I think there should be different classes for different materials, as in, resin, 3-d print, etc.
Personally categories should be well defined. Box stock, handcrafted custom, resin, 3D printed etc.i wouldn't want to be in the same category as someone who invests hundreds of dollars into their model using as many after market parts as possible. I have no idea how to run a model show. I'm sure it's not easy. Good question Kim 😎👍
Interesting question, I think it depends on how the models are judged at a show. You have to have the basics down first and if you throw a bunch of 3d parts at a model it doesn't make it better. A box stock model made with all the basics done perfectly should beat a model with 3d parts but not done perfectly. I prefer IPMS judging over participants judging or the public for that reason.
3D parts allow more detail, is it more expensive but the realism may make it your favorite build, I put into a kitI have a limit to the detail I put into a kit, and I have no problem with extra detail parts.
My thoughts are., if 3d parts and resin bodys were only accessible by a select few then I'd say not fair to compete with every class..how ever anyone can get 3d parts or what have you to make your build better .. I'm a scratch build guy myself "with my on two hands and imagination " and a few sheets of styrene..lol
I like to make things not have them made. But not everyone can do that so 3d printed parts and resin bodys have helped more people than we know..
I'm not into competition never have been so I don't enter shows .... life isn't fair and it's never going to be ,my advice is to whom ever reads this is build for you and have fun let those other guys stress over spending lots of time and money for a $15.00 trophy 🏆
I don't mind if there are 3D printed parts on a model in a show, as long as they're listed as such. Hey, Kim, I built one of those Monogram Black Knight El Caminos back when I was a kid. Loved it!
Great question, Kim. I don't compete, I build for my own enjoyment, so it's a non-issue for my builds. This is basically the age-old questions of built vs. bought, heres my opinions (and that's all that they are): I think there should be separate classes, 1 for builds with lots of scratch building, and 1 for builds with lots of aftermarket parts added in. IMO, this hobby is certainly big enough for both sides to get recognition, and I personally love both. The built vs bought, using real cars as an analogy, to me is this--you've got a guy with lots of mechanical ability who can tear apart, modify, and rebuild a car with his eyes closed who builds a sweet kustom '49 Ford, turns every wrench himself, sprays every drop of paint. And you've got a guy who doesn't have those mechanical skills (or maybe he doesn't have the time or equipment), but he does have the money, so he pays someone who does have those skills to build it for him with money he's earned. Is there either of these guys that should not be allowed to enjoy their car or participate in getting together to fellowship and show off their car because of the manner in which they got it? Of course not! Should both cars be judged together and compete for the same trophy? In my opinion, it's the same answer (no). Just my 2 cents worth of opinion.
It doesn’t matter to me! I use 3 D printed parts and I believe it all makes the modeling community better to have more ideas available.! It’s the same way if u made something out of metal! It’s called
Modeling for a reason!
I don’t compete. Never did,never will. I have never been to a model show either. So my opinion probably doesn’t matter. But if I spent hours and hours making a kit correct, I would probably be pissed if someone put a completely 3d kit next to mine. Maybe they need three additional classes. A- 1 or 2 3d parts, B- 3 to 5 3d parts and C - 6 + 3d parts. Then a class for complete resin kits.
I think the 3D is ok, especiel when you are missing some parts, at the moment I'm missing some wheels for my F40, I will try to make some at mgwork we're we have all the equiment
I don't compete so it doesn't matter to me but, If I did I wouldn't care. You still have to put in a lot of time and effort into a resin kit. That's just my opinion.
Kim good question you can add photo etch parts as well . Doesn't matter to me I took first second and three place at a model show and all my builds where box stock I bet models that had aftermarket parts and pe and so on .
Hello, if you build it box stock you can’t add anything. Not even wires. If it’s not box stock, all is fair game.
The people crying that 3D printing "isn't fair" are the same people that complained about photo etch when it came out. They are the same guys that complained about resin wheels, and bodies, and trans kits. These are the same people that think they should be able to go to hobby lobby and buy the cheapest AMT kit they can find, go grab the cheapest rattle can from wall mart, hose it down, and mop their kit in floor polish and think they should win best of show.
3D printing is a lot more than just pushing the button on the replicator and saying "Computer, print me a holly dominator carburetor!"
3D printing is not just a different skill set, it is multiple different skill sets. You don't get to just hit a button and parts spit out magically. You have find the models and buy them. You have to learn to support the models, and slice them so they will successfully print, You have to learn how to calibrate your exposure settings so the prints don't fail and stick to the plastic vat as a hard puddle. You have to learn how to orient the parts in the slicer software so they actually print wile still preserving the details of the parts and not covering bolts and edges, and details with supports. Guys like me that design our own parts, also have to learn 3D design. We have to not only design the parts for accuracy and detail, but also make the parts work with the kit. I can assure you a 1:25th scale kit is absolutely NOT 1:25th scale. Then there's all the clean up work involved after the parts come off the printer. They don't just come off as magically perfect parts. You have to remove the supports without breaking the parts or breaking off the details, just like removing parts off the sprue, but instead of 1 or 2 sprue points you have to clean up 10, 20, 50, 200 support points. You have to sand away all the layer lines without removing the details and without breaking the parts which can be brittle.
Just because people are unwilling to skip buying 5 copies of the same crappy AMT kit from hobby lobby to buy a printer (You can get full set ups for less than $200 now) and are unwilling to learn anything other than the skills they learned in 1972, doesn't mean the rest of us should be punished and excluded because we wanted to advance our hobby to a new level. It's 2024, time to move on.
The box stock category was made especially for those people who were too cheap or unwilling to learn to do anything but box stock builds so they could still win awards and feel validated.
I've never entered into a competition. But I do think I might be being in the minority, 3D prints might give some builders an unfair advantage. Quite a few builders, like me, can't afford the high cost of printed parts. Even wheels are expensive.
i think it has to be okay.. on real cars, the guy with access to a junkyard full of parts is the same as a guy who buys aftermarket parts, but can effect a shade tree mechanic that only has 1 car to maintain/improve on a budget, they all still end up at car shows or race tracks. i have used many resin parts, a few 3d printed parts, and a billion times more kit bashed pieces. honestly, maybe a no aftermarket parts, mostly aftermarket and a blended class, if all you added was a steering wheel and carbs, its not a stock kit, but also not enough to be so different that it couldnt stay in class, but if they had some parts that were never on any kit produced, then that would be a class of its own. the big thing is the body, if i chop, section and modify the heck out of a body to get the look i end up with, and someone else goes and buys one that has the same look but no work needed, thats brutal. my 100 hours versus your $30 doesnt compare very well and nothing looks any different between the 2. but, if i spend my attention on the chassis/motor, and you spend yours on body, and we both in same class, with same car, it is all in the hands of the judges/voters. so its a tough one but in the end, did the builder enjoy the build only to find out they could have saved time by spending money, or save money by spending time, both are a choice and should both be equally respected as it is obvious there is now 2 more models in the world not still boxed up in a stash, lol.
I dont care if someone throws custom aftermarket alternatives into a build. I typically do not, but occasionally I will.
Where would the segregation end?
I dont think resin &/or 3d printed need to be sperate from a customized/modified kits parts only.
I enjoy being able to say I scratch built or modified things & didnt pay anything additional to create my vision.
3D Parts should not be used in a Model Car Show. That's not fair. Because everyone doesn't have access to a 3D printer, or they can't afford the Ridiculous Prices they want for the 3D Parts..
I feel like this is a non- issue.
Aftermarket parts for model kits have been a thing for a long time, and 3d printing is the next evolutionary step in that path. If you're going to be upset about competing against someone using aftermarket parts on their build, then compete in box stock categories.
Saying that buying & using one kind of aftermarket part is okay because it doesn't have the same kind of impact on a build as another one does is a messy precedent to set in place and manage.
Much like the furor over resin cast bodies, this too shall pass.
i have no problem with it. its all in the finished look .the people that are crying are the ones that are not up to the job.
Now days model building is for rich guys all the modelers that go to model shows are over ran with rich guys.. no its not fair. Scratch building is the way it should be and there are guy that do it very well...
I don't do shows, so I don't really care.