In which I give my thoughts on the shields used by Iroquoian peoples. In addition, I present a possible reconstruction shield, talking about what I did right and what I did wrong.
I'm very much enjoying your videos on the native American subject! A friend of mine in college was part Cherokee and park Scottish and at the time he was very much interested in his heritage it's specially weapons and warfare... Partly due to my interest in swords. I met him in the late nineties and at that time they were so little good information on the internet about the subject. There were of course those few who claim to be native American hand-to-hand combat masters (no names mentioned) with secret lineages and whatnot... But nothing like what you are doing here. So thank you so much for the time & effort you put into your research experimentation and videos!
Part of why I’m doing this channel is because of the frustration I felt at the lack of good condensed information there was back when I was a teenager. I want to make it a little easier for other people like me to learn about our history.
I've always found non-European armors to be a fascinating subject, but tragically poorly documented... This video series has been great to watch and I look forward to other videos on the wider range of topics involving first nations' peoples and cultures. I'm happy to subscribe and hope others do, too!
I've always been fascinated by the pre-Columbian history of the native peoples of the Americas, so I find your channel almost a godsend! so much information not only about the Haudenosaunee but other native peoples of the great lakes and broader north america!
Neowhey Gowa brother ! I am part Iroquois myself and I am so glad that you did this reconstruction and testing. You have done a really professional job. I to have tried to reconstruct wooden slat armor but I did not do as good a job as you. There are videos on Okichitaw plains Cree fighting style and some Cherokee dance with have some fighting movements this might be of some help in your journey . . Black locust bark is very thick and grows all throughout traditional Iroquois territory . If you were to laminate that with some wicker and raw hide that might work.
Io. I got frustrated with the lack of information online and decided to remedy the situation. Locust might be worth a shot considering how there’s hardly any elm trees left these days. Maybe combined with a panel of woven ash.
@@MalcolmPL great idea! Just found out though black locust bark is poisonous if eaten. But that said the black locust tree has been used for millennia for bows. I have worked with it and had no problems. But I didn't eat any though.
@@jarlnils435 Very young children might eat the bark say if there are tailings around seeing as infants have a tendency to put everything in their mouths. Also if you are working with the bark and using power tools you might want to do so with proper ventilation and use a mask.
Random thought: cedar bark is well-known for offering flexible fibres. It splits quite easily along the grain, but is very tough across the fibres. I imagine multiple layers, with the grain of each layer perpendicular to the one before, would reinforce one another like the cross-members on a reinforced door. I blow that splits the grain one way would be impeded by the cross-grain of the next layer, eating up inertia. Probably be enough to bind up an axe-blow, reduce arrow penetration significantly, and stop a ball club cold. Similar principles are still used with modern kevlar (ballistic spin aside).
I feel like birch bark would be a simple and effective way to create the backing for a hide shield. Maybe light willow framing as you suggested with a bark core. Birch comes off the trees quite well in fairly large sheets(especially pre industrial logging days), it's easy to shape and you can even glue multiple layers together to create a veneer of sorts. It's not too heavy either. IT's also plentiful and almost everyone was already harvesting it for canoes.
@@MalcolmPL yeah youd want to laminate it with sap. pretty sure theres a solid glue thats 1/2 pitch 1/2 pine resin? not sure of the tree species right now, it could be multiple species, here id say use some gum sap it hardens like epoxy lol and remember you can use leather as a layer to add rigidity and stucture in the laminate. a lot of the bark shields here are mostly for deflecting spears, they use solid wood ones for fighting against war clubs, war boomerangs(basically a wooden battle axe) and such id probably go with birchbark leather then 2 birch barks layed perpendicular to each other would still be light, but the leather might give it enough structure to deal with warclubs battle axes ext and the outer layer of birch would protect the leather a bit from cutting damage
I love your wooden lamallar, I hope you do more in the future. Would you consider making more from other materials? I know that there have been finds of leather, bone, and ivory lamallar in different parts of North America.
I don't know if lamellar is the best word for it. But I'm glad you appreciate it. Re lamellar of other materials. When I was a teenager I made a leather lamellar breastplate, but in an approximation of the european style, rather than anything native. It can be briefly seen at 12.47 near the end of my lamellar helmet video. I am fascinated by the bone/ivory/antler armors of the inuit. I hope to make a reproduction at some point, but it's a daunting prospect as you need a lot of material to cover a torso. Cheers.
Yeah I saw the leather one right after I made the comment, hopefully you’ll be able to get enough subscribers to cover the cost of your projects with CZcams revenue.
If the rawhide is shrunk after being applied it would take the movement out of the wooden slats of the shield as well as make it more durable. All surviving European medieval shields have hide of some kind on them. I just discovered your channel today. I love what you do!
The "of many shapes and sizes" is one of the more interesting lines. It sugjests that shields were being specialized for many different purposes, perhapse pertaining to an individual warriors role in battle (such as frontline or rear) or the condition of a particular battle.
Generally, center-grip shields are worn with the palm of the hand pointed downwards and held out as far from you as possible, they cover more of you that way due to geometry and they impede your vision less. Unless it's a scutum, that is generally very heavy and its resting position was close to the body.
first the lamallar helmet and now the shields, sir you spoil your audience with how much you care! truly i love how you are signal handily reconstructing so much history right before our eyes. and for level of research and study, you should be granted a doctorate in experimental first nation archeology. If i can make a suggestion for your next project, could you try to recreate the antler war pick that was used by some of the southern eastern tribes, like the Cherokee or creek. i think it was a weapon tailor made to combat helmets like yours, but the only way to find out is to test it. Also can you touch on how horseback warfare affected the coastal peoples. Was it similar to the plain tribe in the form of light horse archers, the columbine people in the form of heavy lancers like the legion of hell, or was it never really a thing in the region?
The shield project has been in the pipeline since fall. As for the antler pick, I may make one at some point, as one is featured in Champlain's illustration. As for horses. My understanding is that the Iroquois made little use of them in warfare. The great lakes region was heavily forested four hundred years ago, and cavalry needs lots of open space to be effective.
@@MalcolmPL far point, but so was Germany too.and it was famed for its Calvary. Guess it is up to individual cultural choice. but still man you are amazing and i hope you keep up the good work.
I really enjoy your videos and appreciate your straightforward/common sense approach. Given the quality, your videos deserve many more views than they are getting.
for the facing of shields i found that a couple layers of linen and glue can make a decent substitute for rawhide. it's not perfect, but it does the job for a fraction of the cost.
Thank you so much for investigating this, making, testing and sharing your insights. I am interested in primal martial arts and shields have a crucial role there.
Cheers. On the subject of prehistoric martial arts, I don't imagine they would be very different from extant ones. Considering that the fundamental characteristics of the human body haven't really changed in the last twenty thousand years.
@@MalcolmPL I have background in aikido, thus familiar with empty hand and weapon techniques a bit. I totally agree that biomechanics is the determining factor and it did not change for millions of years. The only effect for the techniques comes from the weapons used which tie in to technology available. In historical armoured combat, there is more interest in swords, but they became possible only with onset of bronze. For the majority of human history spears, war clubs and axes and daggers were the to go choice for a warrior.
@@MalcolmPL if you are interested, I have some wideos on spear techniques on my channel Dao Paleo. Feel free to comment there. (Or erase this comment if you feel like it, no offence taken)
I think many similarities exist regardless of weapon, I’ve got a background in rapier fencing, my brother did karate and my cousin did kung fu. I’ve noticed significant similarities of technique between rapier and unarmed.
btw theres a lot of surviving aboriginal shields in australia, some guys still make them, a lot are of wood construction they have a pretty cool one that looks very similar to chinas song empire sword catcher its just a tree trunk you carve into a triangle then carve out a hand hole in middle on back, the ends are pointy enough you wount want to get hit with them and cause they use hardwood, so strong u can block any kind of war boomerang or war club with confidence and if you where fast enough you could use it to sweep aside a spear, although they had bigger iris & rectangle ones made from bark and hide also for spears. there was also ones with a frame supporting leather or just bark or bark with leather liner or outer the bark ones you basically 1/2 ringbark a tree and take it off in 1 piece then use lamandra fibre or similar to pull the ends in a bit/give it tortion and keep it right shape/to taste(very similar to making a cannoo but smaller tree) while it drys/hardens then add skins if needed. but theirs a few differnt types depending on areas that you could use as some research sources since they are technically first nations even if another continents first nations, and they did have 60000 yrs to practice and perfect it and its only been 200yrs of colonization here so more stuff and skills still practiced probably at least when it comes to surviving shields it seems
also awesome gear :) also informative as always. always enjoy finding one of your tests :P btw i think ive mentioned it to u elsewhere but if instead of boiling in water and baking you boil or paint and bake in tallow, it becomes almost water proof, as waterproof as beeswax and basically tripples its rigidity and puncture resistance so you can turn thinish cheaper cow leather into pretty thick very strong leather if you used that boiling tecnique for making a shield but replaced the water boiling with tallow/animal fat/stearic acid
Imagine twenty to sixty Iroquois warriors drumming on their shields as they approach an enemy tribe. Given the force sizes that I think were common in pre-colonial times, that would be quite intimidating.
I would consider the possibility that the shields were constructed more along the lines of the way in which snowshoes were constructed… with a willow frame and multiple layers of raw hide lashings, maybe some wooden sticks interspersed into the lashings
I wonder if perhaps the shield in Figure C could be a combination boat and shield made in wicker and birchbark? It strongly resembles the type of circular boat used by some native peoples, and also the coracle of the Welsh. It definitely has a very strongly domed shape to it. It’s ironic that while the lessons the natives took from combat with colonial powers was that their armor was ineffective against gun powder, at the same time their opponents take away was that when facing against opponents using arrows, wearing armor that otherwise wasn’t useful in Europe where such things had been abandoned, was a good idea. A shocking amount of plate, mail, and other older armor sets wound up coming to the US as a result.
The back shield with the hand shield look pretty tough, I was watching another of your videos where you said "armor defense among natives outpaced offensive weaponry so peace was relative, guns ended that" (paraphrasing)
First of all- holy this is amazing! Well done. For use of weaponry, although it different weapons, time, and people you might get some value looking at the stuff from Okichitaw (Plains Cree martial Art). I am also wondering if the skirt is lamellar- the articulation of a few rows might allow for bending more (and perhaps allow for more of the skirt to wrap around the body like in the illustration). Another other thought is for the drawing where you got the shield from- the man could have columns to form something like the Tare from Kendo (hanging bars that overlap slightly rather than a one piece skirt). God this is super cool, thank you for sharing your journey!
I wasn’t able to figure out a way to make lamellar work with wood, the small plates are too easy to split in that application. Arrows just go right through. As for the tare, with a bit of experimentation that could work, but I don’t think it matches the illustration well.
Of course it's completely up to you how you feel about spending/taking two deer to make the second reproduction shield, but I personally don't think that it would be "just a toy." I think the work you're doing with your channel is very important in reclaiming, rediscovering, and asserting the importance of the history of your people. It's an act of decolonization in my book. There is inherent value in knowing what such a shield would look like, feel like; how it would work in battle and in various physical circumstances. Knowing these things helps us move closer to being able to understand and appreciate a people who's history and traditions were intentionally effaced. I'm sure if you posted on GoFundMe or Patreon, people would be down to support the project financially, I know I would.
The mantlets were described in their use, but not what they're construction was, when the Iroquois used them during the Battle of Long Sault. It makes you wonder effective the mantlets were against musket fire.
Given that the armor out west was able to stop a bullet in under certain conditions, I don’t know. It would probably be an easy test for someone with a matchlock musket, get a three inch hardwood log and shoot it at various distances.
You should look into getting cow hide for your recreations! Not a traditional material, but given the scale of industrial beef operations, it's very cheap to get. The stuff that slaughterhouses can't sell to leather shops ends up getting thrown away anyway. At least they'll be going towards rediscovering history and experimental archaeology instead of a landfill! I don't think you should view these projects as toys anyway. The work you're doing is incredibly important!
Excellent video. The shield you demonstrated looks to be a melee (as you demonstrated). The larger round shield maybe for protecting archers? Seems too big to fight melee.
I have read French Jesuit documents about Algonquin (specifically the Illinois) that described shields similar to the big round one that were bison hide that were “arrow proof” and “rather large” they even mistakes them as bison at one point.
Fascinating work brother! I'm curious, would someone wearing this armor be able to utilize a bow? Maybe firing two or three arrows before dropping and moving into melee?
Lol, NVM! I just watched the video with you shooting a bow in the armor. I did notice in the image that he had his arm all the way through the straps. With or without armor would you be able to fire the bow with the shield strapped to the arm?
The armor itself does not affect one's archery ability, though it does make wearing a quiver a bit awkward. I have tried archery with the shield, it's incredibly awkward, the shield gets in the way of aiming and the arrow or string sometimes crash into the shield when you shoot, sending the shot off in some random direction. It is "technically" possible to use a bow and shield, but I would not do it under any circumstances.
So my question is did all the nation's of the long house use armor in your opinion? Awsome vidio. I am in the process of sculpting a series of Iroquois people from the Chemung River basin. On in this Armor I am planning to do.
Perhaps the shield on the right is used for advancing on targets with the high ground? The two handles towards one side allows for rocks being dropped to bounce off instead of crushing🤷♂
Willow bark makes a great cordage, so it could be what is holding the shield together. Are you familiar with Sally Pointer from across the pond? Both of you do a great job with diving deep into these old technologies.
@SallyPointer incase she is notified of my mentioning here to you. I can see how you two could really benefit from having each other to bounce ideas off.
I think it's interesting that the shape is like an upside down heater shield. I kind of wonder what the benefits and downsides of the different orientations would be, materials and construction aside
Having played around with the shield a bit I find that holding it with the point upwards is really good for parrying and striking, using the shield in an active manner.
I think it's likely we painted the shields, but I can't tell for certain, so it would be just more speculation. I probably will paint it at some point. I neglected to do so mostly out of indecision. I wanted to be as historically authentic as I could, but the only period appropriate martial pattern I could think of was the one I painted on the breastplate. Most of our traditional artwork is from the last two hundred years, (outside the scope of my recreation.) Sometimes it's hard to tell how old an idea is.
the smaller shield you made is very interesting cuz it's very similar to the shape of a nightly heater shield it's just held opposite direction. In other words if you think of a triangle as the shape of the shield essentially a nightly heater shield would have one point down while two would be at the top whereas The shield you made has two at the bottom and one at the top. I don't have a real guess as to why this is but it's interesting to note
Very insightful stuff. Bravo. On the subject of the backshield. Often ... You can see an arrow coming at you , you can't block it and if you turn to run it could still hit your legs. However if crouched low , you can fire a shot and quickly turn your shoulders and back to face the enemies fire. Imagine wearing the shield and firing back and forth at another person. How would you want to use that back shield, remember the legs are relatively exposed. Stay very low, fire from one knee and turn the shield to maneuver side to side or at a slight angle? Holding the bow close to the body and against the edge of the shield would allow you to fire while exposing only the side of the head? But, are those bows to long to use it a crouched or kneeling position?
I mostly agree. The length of the bows wouldn’t be a problem, However the armor sort of follows a straight line between the ribcage and the knee. Crouching, being on one knee causes the hem to lift, which exposes the ankles and gets in the way.
@@MalcolmPL perhaps the best approach would be to build two similar cardboard armors with just string attachments. Several dozen very light blunt arrows, go out into a field and shoot at one another?
The semi-flexibility of the first reconstruction can be beneficial. Movement allows dissipation of the energy of an incoming arrow or blow. Perhaps modern fake leather materials can be used instead of rawhide? They should be far more affordable.
No, rawhide itself is very different from leather, and fake leather is very different structurally from real. Eventually a suitable skin will turn up. Something too rough or mangled to tan. It’s just a matter of patience.
The comparatively small size of your reconstructed shield makes perfect sense with your wooden armour. You've got a static defense in the armour, and the light, mobile shield lets you quickly cover any holes in it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the larger shields illustrated or described were used by warriors who, for whatever reason, could not have a full suit of slat. My own research into shields in Africa has led me to the (not especially surprising) conclusion that shields become wider, taller, and thicker the less feasible full armour protection is.
@@MalcolmPL Given you were just working with what you had, you matched the image pretty well in construction and size, and the results clearly synergize well with your armour. At the very least you demonstrated a shield of that size can work well with that style of armour.
Thinking about the difficulty of cutting boards and drilling holes without metal tools, what to you think about a shield of woven willow wand wicker covered with rawhide?
It would work very well against hand weapons, the light weight would be another nice benefit, but I can’t comment on how well it would do against arrows. Those antler tips are very tough to stop.
Love your video's. There is another thing about shields. Romans used them as sheer wall armor. Stack them and hope for the best. These shields are not that. They are agile shields. I see them not to 'catch' incoming items but rather to deflect them. Like a buckler. Used that way you effectively can catch an arrow and prevent it from penetrating beyond the tip. I mean the Japanese (probably) used free flowing silk sheets to catch arrows. There is an amazing documentary about warring tribes in the amazon where a warrior describes how by twisting his hips he would deflect arrows. Leaving gnarly scars but leaving him alive. If you were the one handling a shield I can only assume it's for that type of defense. Active instead of passive. Even light leather or bark on a frame would render arrows useless if swiped. I looked for a video on shooting a rotating target but could not find it. Pretty sure I saw one but must have been lost in translation or something. There is a spinning action where Achilles catches a thrown spear in "Troy".... but can hardly call that a source.
Turning when receiving a thrust is common to many martial arts. Its very apparent in Kali/Escrima from the Philippines since they were using swords until recently (sticks now) and still use knives. The idea is that the enemy is thrusting at your centre line so if you rotate your body 90 degrees as the point contacts, the point will still penetrate the body but miss the vital organs. I saw an interview with a guy who was attacked by 7 people with knives, he fought them off and killed one of them with a knife he snatched. He had many wounds on his body but credited his survival to body rotation.
What if that round shield is a wicker shield? Woven willow strips could be woven around a more rigid frame and then covered in hide. The handle frame would work with this, especially of the shield was concave and left a gap between the shield and the gripping hand in the center.
Most surviving bows from the 18th-19th century are in the thirty to fifty pound range, The bow I use for the tests is in the traditional style and draws at about forty pounds. It's possible that bows were more powerful back in the days when armor was used, then became weaker as armor vanished, but we can't know for certain, as these bows have not survived.
As soon as I heard of a shield made from willow, I immediately thought of a basket work shield. I have seen pictures before from the ancient world. Covered by pliable rawhide, wouldn't it absorb a blow rather than break. ? And tightly woven I believe it would catch arrows.. Great research.
Yes. A wicker shield would work well. Especially if covered with rawhide. But it doesn’t quite match the description of “willow and bark.” A wicker shield would have certain advantages, for example you wouldn’t have to worry about the wood splitting.
@@MalcolmPL You make an excellent point. I am trying to visualise a woven willow shield, with strips of bark incorporated into the weaving. Perhaps the bark would give more strength, or possibly been used for decoration using bark of different colours? From the research you have done, it appears that some individuals were effectively the equivalent of European knights. And if that is the case, then adding decoration seems highly likely.
That’s an idea. Maybe the willow could be wound in a spiral as usual, but the perpendicular withes could be replaced with birchbark, that would certainly cut down the weight. I wonder if it would be strong enough. I don’t really think you’d do that for decoration though, as I’m fairly confident a shield like this would be faced with rawhide.
It could very well be a spear, there is something at the tip that might be a spearhead, and it's so long that I don't really know what else it could be. According to the text, Illustration D is a depiction of a Huron in winter clothing, not necessarily a warrior. According to my knowledge spears weren't used much for warfare over here, but they were used for hunting wolves, coyotes and bears.
It's so cool how you actually went the extra length to make such realistic considerations for this armour. It looks so unique too.
Thank you kindly.
I'm very much enjoying your videos on the native American subject!
A friend of mine in college was part Cherokee and park Scottish and at the time he was very much interested in his heritage it's specially weapons and warfare... Partly due to my interest in swords.
I met him in the late nineties and at that time they were so little good information on the internet about the subject.
There were of course those few who claim to be native American hand-to-hand combat masters (no names mentioned) with secret lineages and whatnot...
But nothing like what you are doing here.
So thank you so much for the time & effort you put into your research experimentation and videos!
Part of why I’m doing this channel is because of the frustration I felt at the lack of good condensed information there was back when I was a teenager. I want to make it a little easier for other people like me to learn about our history.
@@MalcolmPL well I'm VERY glad you did!
I've always found non-European armors to be a fascinating subject, but tragically poorly documented... This video series has been great to watch and I look forward to other videos on the wider range of topics involving first nations' peoples and cultures. I'm happy to subscribe and hope others do, too!
I learn something every time I watch one of your videos. Thank you for your research
I've always been fascinated by the pre-Columbian history of the native peoples of the Americas, so I find your channel almost a godsend! so much information not only about the Haudenosaunee but other native peoples of the great lakes and broader north america!
Neowhey Gowa brother ! I am part Iroquois myself and I am so glad that you did this reconstruction and testing. You have done a really professional job. I to have tried to reconstruct wooden slat armor but I did not do as good a job as you. There are videos on Okichitaw plains Cree fighting style and some Cherokee dance with have some fighting movements this might be of some help in your journey . . Black locust bark is very thick and grows all throughout traditional Iroquois territory . If you were to laminate that with some wicker and raw hide that might work.
Io. I got frustrated with the lack of information online and decided to remedy the situation.
Locust might be worth a shot considering how there’s hardly any elm trees left these days. Maybe combined with a panel of woven ash.
@@MalcolmPL great idea! Just found out though black locust bark is poisonous if eaten. But that said the black locust tree has been used for millennia for bows. I have worked with it and had no problems. But I didn't eat any though.
@@edwardcarrier4816 well, I would think that nobody would eat a shield 😂
@@jarlnils435 Very young children might eat the bark say if there are tailings around seeing as infants have a tendency to put everything in their mouths. Also if you are working with the bark and using power tools you might want to do so with proper ventilation and use a mask.
@@edwardcarrier4816 like with yew
Now thats an intimidating warrior! Imagine an army of these guys staring you down and drumming their shields
Random thought: cedar bark is well-known for offering flexible fibres. It splits quite easily along the grain, but is very tough across the fibres. I imagine multiple layers, with the grain of each layer perpendicular to the one before, would reinforce one another like the cross-members on a reinforced door. I blow that splits the grain one way would be impeded by the cross-grain of the next layer, eating up inertia. Probably be enough to bind up an axe-blow, reduce arrow penetration significantly, and stop a ball club cold. Similar principles are still used with modern kevlar (ballistic spin aside).
I feel like birch bark would be a simple and effective way to create the backing for a hide shield. Maybe light willow framing as you suggested with a bark core. Birch comes off the trees quite well in fairly large sheets(especially pre industrial logging days), it's easy to shape and you can even glue multiple layers together to create a veneer of sorts. It's not too heavy either. IT's also plentiful and almost everyone was already harvesting it for canoes.
I'm skeptical of birchbark because of how delicate it is. It would need to be laminated like plywood, with two or three layers running perpendicular.
@@MalcolmPL yeah youd want to laminate it with sap. pretty sure theres a solid glue thats 1/2 pitch 1/2 pine resin? not sure of the tree species right now, it could be multiple species, here id say use some gum sap it hardens like epoxy lol
and remember you can use leather as a layer to add rigidity and stucture in the laminate. a lot of the bark shields here are mostly for deflecting spears, they use solid wood ones for fighting against war clubs, war boomerangs(basically a wooden battle axe) and such
id probably go with birchbark leather then 2 birch barks layed perpendicular to each other would still be light, but the leather might give it enough structure to deal with warclubs battle axes ext
and the outer layer of birch would protect the leather a bit from cutting damage
I love your wooden lamallar, I hope you do more in the future. Would you consider making more from other materials? I know that there have been finds of leather, bone, and ivory lamallar in different parts of North America.
I don't know if lamellar is the best word for it. But I'm glad you appreciate it.
Re lamellar of other materials.
When I was a teenager I made a leather lamellar breastplate, but in an approximation of the european style, rather than anything native. It can be briefly seen at 12.47 near the end of my lamellar helmet video.
I am fascinated by the bone/ivory/antler armors of the inuit. I hope to make a reproduction at some point, but it's a daunting prospect as you need a lot of material to cover a torso.
Cheers.
Yeah I saw the leather one right after I made the comment, hopefully you’ll be able to get enough subscribers to cover the cost of your projects with CZcams revenue.
It would be nice to make some money at this, but I'm not holding my breath, considering how niche my topics are. But it doesn't really matter.
If the rawhide is shrunk after being applied it would take the movement out of the wooden slats of the shield as well as make it more durable. All surviving European medieval shields have hide of some kind on them. I just discovered your channel today. I love what you do!
Yep.
The "of many shapes and sizes" is one of the more interesting lines. It sugjests that shields were being specialized for many different purposes, perhapse pertaining to an individual warriors role in battle (such as frontline or rear) or the condition of a particular battle.
I think you look fierce as hell in the armor with the shield. Well done 👍
the full suit looks really cool
Generally, center-grip shields are worn with the palm of the hand pointed downwards and held out as far from you as possible, they cover more of you that way due to geometry and they impede your vision less. Unless it's a scutum, that is generally very heavy and its resting position was close to the body.
first the lamallar helmet and now the shields, sir you spoil your audience with how much you care! truly i love how you are signal handily reconstructing so much history right before our eyes. and for level of research and study, you should be granted a doctorate in experimental first nation archeology. If i can make a suggestion for your next project, could you try to recreate the antler war pick that was used by some of the southern eastern tribes, like the Cherokee or creek. i think it was a weapon tailor made to combat helmets like yours, but the only way to find out is to test it. Also can you touch on how horseback warfare affected the coastal peoples. Was it similar to the plain tribe in the form of light horse archers, the columbine people in the form of heavy lancers like the legion of hell, or was it never really a thing in the region?
The shield project has been in the pipeline since fall.
As for the antler pick, I may make one at some point, as one is featured in Champlain's illustration.
As for horses. My understanding is that the Iroquois made little use of them in warfare. The great lakes region was heavily forested four hundred years ago, and cavalry needs lots of open space to be effective.
@@MalcolmPL far point, but so was Germany too.and it was famed for its Calvary. Guess it is up to individual cultural choice. but still man you are amazing and i hope you keep up the good work.
I really enjoy your videos and appreciate your straightforward/common sense approach. Given the quality, your videos deserve many more views than they are getting.
Just discovered your channel today. Great stuff. Thanks so much for your work.
You do great work. I am very impressed. 🙂
for the facing of shields i found that a couple layers of linen and glue can make a decent substitute for rawhide. it's not perfect, but it does the job for a fraction of the cost.
Cheater mcgee.
Thank you so much for investigating this, making, testing and sharing your insights. I am interested in primal martial arts and shields have a crucial role there.
Cheers.
On the subject of prehistoric martial arts, I don't imagine they would be very different from extant ones. Considering that the fundamental characteristics of the human body haven't really changed in the last twenty thousand years.
@@MalcolmPL I have background in aikido, thus familiar with empty hand and weapon techniques a bit. I totally agree that biomechanics is the determining factor and it did not change for millions of years. The only effect for the techniques comes from the weapons used which tie in to technology available. In historical armoured combat, there is more interest in swords, but they became possible only with onset of bronze. For the majority of human history spears, war clubs and axes and daggers were the to go choice for a warrior.
@@MalcolmPL if you are interested, I have some wideos on spear techniques on my channel Dao Paleo. Feel free to comment there. (Or erase this comment if you feel like it, no offence taken)
I think many similarities exist regardless of weapon, I’ve got a background in rapier fencing, my brother did karate and my cousin did kung fu. I’ve noticed significant similarities of technique
between rapier and unarmed.
The talk of willow covered with skins reminded me of the Stoccata targe making video.
Ah both the armor and the shield make so much more sense in combination than apart. Excellent observation, and video generally.
btw theres a lot of surviving aboriginal shields in australia, some guys still make them, a lot are of wood construction they have a pretty cool one that looks very similar to chinas song empire sword catcher
its just a tree trunk you carve into a triangle then carve out a hand hole in middle on back, the ends are pointy enough you wount want to get hit with them and cause they use hardwood, so strong u can block any kind of war boomerang or war club with confidence and if you where fast enough you could use it to sweep aside a spear, although they had bigger iris & rectangle ones made from bark and hide also for spears. there was also ones with a frame supporting leather or just bark or bark with leather liner or outer the bark ones you basically 1/2 ringbark a tree and take it off in 1 piece then use lamandra fibre or similar to pull the ends in a bit/give it tortion and keep it right shape/to taste(very similar to making a cannoo but smaller tree) while it drys/hardens then add skins if needed. but theirs a few differnt types depending on areas that you could use as some research sources since they are technically first nations even if another continents first nations, and they did have 60000 yrs to practice and perfect it and its only been 200yrs of colonization here so more stuff and skills still practiced probably at least when it comes to surviving shields it seems
You have an excellent voice. I would love to hear stories narrated by you.
czcams.com/video/T4cvTXuSa4w/video.html
also awesome gear :) also informative as always.
always enjoy finding one of your tests :P
btw i think ive mentioned it to u elsewhere but if instead of boiling in water and baking you boil or paint and bake in tallow, it becomes almost water proof, as waterproof as beeswax and basically tripples its rigidity and puncture resistance so you can turn thinish cheaper cow leather into pretty thick very strong leather if you used that boiling tecnique for making a shield but replaced the water boiling with tallow/animal fat/stearic acid
Imagine twenty to sixty Iroquois warriors drumming on their shields as they approach an enemy tribe. Given the force sizes that I think were common in pre-colonial times, that would be quite intimidating.
I would consider the possibility that the shields were constructed more along the lines of the way in which snowshoes were constructed… with a willow frame and multiple layers of raw hide lashings, maybe some wooden sticks interspersed into the lashings
Good work.
I wonder if perhaps the shield in Figure C could be a combination boat and shield made in wicker and birchbark? It strongly resembles the type of circular boat used by some native peoples, and also the coracle of the Welsh. It definitely has a very strongly domed shape to it.
It’s ironic that while the lessons the natives took from combat with colonial powers was that their armor was ineffective against gun powder, at the same time their opponents take away was that when facing against opponents using arrows, wearing armor that otherwise wasn’t useful in Europe where such things had been abandoned, was a good idea. A shocking amount of plate, mail, and other older armor sets wound up coming to the US as a result.
The back shield with the hand shield look pretty tough, I was watching another of your videos where you said "armor defense among natives outpaced offensive weaponry so peace was relative, guns ended that" (paraphrasing)
First of all- holy this is amazing! Well done. For use of weaponry, although it different weapons, time, and people you might get some value looking at the stuff from Okichitaw (Plains Cree martial Art). I am also wondering if the skirt is lamellar- the articulation of a few rows might allow for bending more (and perhaps allow for more of the skirt to wrap around the body like in the illustration). Another other thought is for the drawing where you got the shield from- the man could have columns to form something like the Tare from Kendo (hanging bars that overlap slightly rather than a one piece skirt). God this is super cool, thank you for sharing your journey!
I wasn’t able to figure out a way to make lamellar work with wood, the small plates are too easy to split in that application. Arrows just go right through.
As for the tare, with a bit of experimentation that could work, but I don’t think it matches the illustration well.
hey, love your content the work you do is incredible also you are really cute ^-^ greetings from Borikén in the Caribbean
Of course it's completely up to you how you feel about spending/taking two deer to make the second reproduction shield, but I personally don't think that it would be "just a toy." I think the work you're doing with your channel is very important in reclaiming, rediscovering, and asserting the importance of the history of your people. It's an act of decolonization in my book.
There is inherent value in knowing what such a shield would look like, feel like; how it would work in battle and in various physical circumstances. Knowing these things helps us move closer to being able to understand and appreciate a people who's history and traditions were intentionally effaced. I'm sure if you posted on GoFundMe or Patreon, people would be down to support the project financially, I know I would.
The mantlets were described in their use, but not what they're construction was, when the Iroquois used them during the Battle of Long Sault. It makes you wonder effective the mantlets were against musket fire.
Given that the armor out west was able to stop a bullet in under certain conditions, I don’t know.
It would probably be an easy test for someone with a matchlock musket, get a three inch hardwood log and shoot it at various distances.
medicne shield with bark cover then thicker raw hide might fit descriptions and work well
You should look into getting cow hide for your recreations! Not a traditional material, but given the scale of industrial beef operations, it's very cheap to get.
The stuff that slaughterhouses can't sell to leather shops ends up getting thrown away anyway. At least they'll be going towards rediscovering history and experimental archaeology instead of a landfill!
I don't think you should view these projects as toys anyway. The work you're doing is incredibly important!
Excellent video. The shield you demonstrated looks to be a melee (as you demonstrated). The larger round shield maybe for protecting archers? Seems too big to fight melee.
I have read French Jesuit documents about Algonquin (specifically the Illinois) that described shields similar to the big round one that were bison hide that were “arrow proof” and “rather large” they even mistakes them as bison at one point.
That’s what the illustration is. Two Algonquin warriors.
Fascinating work brother! I'm curious, would someone wearing this armor be able to utilize a bow? Maybe firing two or three arrows before dropping and moving into melee?
Lol, NVM! I just watched the video with you shooting a bow in the armor. I did notice in the image that he had his arm all the way through the straps. With or without armor would you be able to fire the bow with the shield strapped to the arm?
The armor itself does not affect one's archery ability, though it does make wearing a quiver a bit awkward.
I have tried archery with the shield, it's incredibly awkward, the shield gets in the way of aiming and the arrow or string sometimes crash into the shield when you shoot, sending the shot off in some random direction. It is "technically" possible to use a bow and shield, but I would not do it under any circumstances.
So my question is did all the nation's of the long house use armor in your opinion? Awsome vidio. I am in the process of sculpting a series of Iroquois people from the Chemung River basin. On in this Armor I am planning to do.
I believe that is so. I would also extend that to other nations in the northeast.
Perhaps the shield on the right is used for advancing on targets with the high ground?
The two handles towards one side allows for rocks being dropped to bounce off instead of crushing🤷♂
Willow bark makes a great cordage, so it could be what is holding the shield together. Are you familiar with Sally Pointer from across the pond? Both of you do a great job with diving deep into these old technologies.
@SallyPointer incase she is notified of my mentioning here to you. I can see how you two could really benefit from having each other to bounce ideas off.
I think it's interesting that the shape is like an upside down heater shield. I kind of wonder what the benefits and downsides of the different orientations would be, materials and construction aside
Having played around with the shield a bit I find that holding it with the point upwards is really good for parrying and striking, using the shield in an active manner.
Would you consider painting the shield? I'm not familiar with Iroquoian iconography or symbolism, or if they did paint their shields.
I think it's likely we painted the shields, but I can't tell for certain, so it would be just more speculation.
I probably will paint it at some point. I neglected to do so mostly out of indecision. I wanted to be as historically authentic as I could, but the only period appropriate martial pattern I could think of was the one I painted on the breastplate. Most of our traditional artwork is from the last two hundred years, (outside the scope of my recreation.) Sometimes it's hard to tell how old an idea is.
the smaller shield you made is very interesting cuz it's very similar to the shape of a nightly heater shield it's just held opposite direction.
In other words if you think of a triangle as the shape of the shield essentially a nightly heater shield would have one point down while two would be at the top whereas The shield you made has two at the bottom and one at the top.
I don't have a real guess as to why this is but it's interesting to note
I saw a video by Roland Warzecha a few years ago where he held a heater shield point first. I don’t remember the context though.
@@MalcolmPL good point, I thought about that & forgot to mention it.
Very insightful stuff. Bravo. On the subject of the backshield. Often ... You can see an arrow coming at you , you can't block it and if you turn to run it could still hit your legs. However if crouched low , you can fire a shot and quickly turn your shoulders and back to face the enemies fire.
Imagine wearing the shield and firing back and forth at another person. How would you want to use that back shield, remember the legs are relatively exposed.
Stay very low, fire from one knee and turn the shield to maneuver side to side or at a slight angle?
Holding the bow close to the body and against the edge of the shield would allow you to fire while exposing only the side of the head? But, are those bows to long to use it a crouched or kneeling position?
I mostly agree.
The length of the bows wouldn’t be a problem, However the armor sort of follows a straight line between the ribcage and the knee. Crouching, being on one knee causes the hem to lift, which exposes the ankles and gets in the way.
@@MalcolmPL perhaps the best approach would be to build two similar cardboard armors with just string attachments. Several dozen very light blunt arrows, go out into a field and shoot at one another?
The semi-flexibility of the first reconstruction can be beneficial. Movement allows dissipation of the energy of an incoming arrow or blow.
Perhaps modern fake leather materials can be used instead of rawhide? They should be far more affordable.
No, rawhide itself is very different from leather, and fake leather is very different structurally from real.
Eventually a suitable skin will turn up. Something too rough or mangled to tan. It’s just a matter of patience.
The comparatively small size of your reconstructed shield makes perfect sense with your wooden armour. You've got a static defense in the armour, and the light, mobile shield lets you quickly cover any holes in it.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the larger shields illustrated or described were used by warriors who, for whatever reason, could not have a full suit of slat. My own research into shields in Africa has led me to the (not especially surprising) conclusion that shields become wider, taller, and thicker the less feasible full armour protection is.
I guess that makes sense, I just built it because of what materials were to hand.
@@MalcolmPL Given you were just working with what you had, you matched the image pretty well in construction and size, and the results clearly synergize well with your armour. At the very least you demonstrated a shield of that size can work well with that style of armour.
Thinking about the difficulty of cutting boards and drilling holes without metal tools, what to you think about a shield of woven willow wand wicker covered with rawhide?
It would work very well against hand weapons, the light weight would be another nice benefit, but I can’t comment on how well it would do against arrows. Those antler tips are very tough to stop.
@@MalcolmPL I think you are correct, but I'd still like to see it tested.
It’ll have to be somebody else, I don’t have the skill for wickerwork.
Love your video's.
There is another thing about shields. Romans used them as sheer wall armor. Stack them and hope for the best. These shields are not that. They are agile shields. I see them not to 'catch' incoming items but rather to deflect them. Like a buckler. Used that way you effectively can catch an arrow and prevent it from penetrating beyond the tip. I mean the Japanese (probably) used free flowing silk sheets to catch arrows.
There is an amazing documentary about warring tribes in the amazon where a warrior describes how by twisting his hips he would deflect arrows. Leaving gnarly scars but leaving him alive. If you were the one handling a shield I can only assume it's for that type of defense. Active instead of passive. Even light leather or bark on a frame would render arrows useless if swiped.
I looked for a video on shooting a rotating target but could not find it. Pretty sure I saw one but must have been lost in translation or something. There is a spinning action where Achilles catches a thrown spear in "Troy".... but can hardly call that a source.
Turning when receiving a thrust is common to many martial arts. Its very apparent in Kali/Escrima from the Philippines since they were using swords until recently (sticks now) and still use knives. The idea is that the enemy is thrusting at your centre line so if you rotate your body 90 degrees as the point contacts, the point will still penetrate the body but miss the vital organs. I saw an interview with a guy who was attacked by 7 people with knives, he fought them off and killed one of them with a knife he snatched. He had many wounds on his body but credited his survival to body rotation.
What if that round shield is a wicker shield? Woven willow strips could be woven around a more rigid frame and then covered in hide. The handle frame would work with this, especially of the shield was concave and left a gap between the shield and the gripping hand in the center.
Stands to reason.
Judging from the size and shape, I’d assume that Iroquois shields were used in pitching combat, similar to the Roman or Greek style of warfare.
How powerful were Iroquois bows?
Most surviving bows from the 18th-19th century are in the thirty to fifty pound range, The bow I use for the tests is in the traditional style and draws at about forty pounds.
It's possible that bows were more powerful back in the days when armor was used, then became weaker as armor vanished, but we can't know for certain, as these bows have not survived.
deadly
Iroquois Manlets are actually a unit in an Age of Empires game.
Number three, if memory serves.
As soon as I heard of a shield made from willow, I immediately thought of a basket work shield. I have seen pictures before from the ancient world. Covered by pliable rawhide, wouldn't it absorb a blow rather than break. ? And tightly woven I believe it would catch arrows.. Great research.
Yes. A wicker shield would work well. Especially if covered with rawhide.
But it doesn’t quite match the description of “willow and bark.”
A wicker shield would have certain advantages, for example you wouldn’t have to worry about the wood splitting.
@@MalcolmPL You make an excellent point. I am trying to visualise a woven willow shield, with strips of bark incorporated into the weaving. Perhaps the bark would give more strength, or possibly been used for decoration using bark of different colours?
From the research you have done, it appears that some individuals were effectively the equivalent of European knights. And if that is the case, then adding decoration seems highly likely.
That’s an idea. Maybe the willow could be wound in a spiral as usual, but the perpendicular withes could be replaced with birchbark, that would certainly cut down the weight. I wonder if it would be strong enough. I don’t really think you’d do that for decoration though, as I’m fairly confident a shield like this would be faced with rawhide.
would larger antler be imported from farther north? elk or what ever. to make larger pics, axes, clubs, armour plate?
moose...
Moose used to live in the region.
could alagator teeth been imported and used? or whale teeth and shark teeth? knifes and arows and spears and such
I don't think it would be worth the effort.
Can you do mesoamerican/Inca cotton armor?
I’m not saying no. But I’m not very knowledgeable about that period and I generally prefer to avoid topics that are outside my experience.
@@MalcolmPL ok makes sense.
That shield can be used like a kite or heater shield.
Sure, why not.
Wait was D a native warrior using a pike?
It could very well be a spear, there is something at the tip that might be a spearhead, and it's so long that I don't really know what else it could be.
According to the text, Illustration D is a depiction of a Huron in winter clothing, not necessarily a warrior.
According to my knowledge spears weren't used much for warfare over here, but they were used for hunting wolves, coyotes and bears.
@@MalcolmPL ok, it just looked like a fire hardened pike, like that used by the people of Hawaii.
@@terrynewsome6698 I'm not saying you're wrong.
interesting , though text is too fast to read.
You’ve got a spacebar.
In seriousness, that’s an easy improvement. Thanks.