If they replaced it with stationary tubes the level would need a drastic redesign I think. They designed the level with the rotation in mind, the gate section wouldn’t even be worth including if not for this. I always felt the intent of this mechanic is to just move forward and back not side to side at all and just focus on timing your movement. I suspect many of these sections if timed properly you can just rush forward through avoiding all gates and asteroids without slowing down.
I haven't played it myself. But it looks like a mechanical call back to the spinning tube gimmick found in Sonic 3 in Carnival Night. I can agree that it is not visually intuitive for SA 2 to have an invisible force spin you around a tube that appears stationary.
@@DARamosYT I got more of a feeling of (I think) Flying Battery from S&K, with the spinning cylinders and the occasional need for timing, just on the outside, rather than the inside.
For me the biggest problem with the tubes isn't the spinning but the weird clunky geometry, if the tubes were smooth objects I think i it'd be more reasonable.
Yeah, that's how I usually play this stage, just rush through the drums. It takes a few attempts to understand the timings, but I still got that muscle memory from playing this game as a kid. Also, I'm pretty sure you can slightly speed up or slow down the rotation by running diagonally.
@@CrystalGreymon I know Final Rush has one in the area with the big walls on both sides, the area right before the lost chao of that stage. It's right below the start of that area.
Yeah I’m not great at this game, but I’ve never had any problem with these. I just hold up on the joystick and go fast, and the level goes pretty smoothly
Yeah I just ran fast and thus got out of them fast. I treat them like auto-scrollers, no different from tubes in Crazy Gadget or in old Sonic games. Not sure if it’s worse on PC.
Love how ZoomZike always ends these videos with him finishing the level in the same amount of time as the length of the video. Gotta love the attention to detail there.
WAIT! So basically I've been gollowing this series since the sonic forces level analisis, and I haven't noticied this detail in all this time!? Holy crap dude, this guy is even better than I already think he was.
The thing about Final Chase for me was that it wasn't about freedom of movement, but going with the flow. Not an autorunning level like some of the current games but that if your timing is right and you don't mess up, the spinning drums perfectly moves you that allows you to blast through everything. You can go REALLY fast through this level once you get the timing right and combined with the music, this level feels unforgettable to me.
Just like Shadow himself, he isn't about freedom, he is about fulfilling the demands of people, he just goes along with it whether it be destruction of the world or saving it...
Except the parts where Shadow just decides to not magnetize towards the tube or you get clipped by an Artificial Chaos. But yeah let's pretend the devs on a rushed product perfectly considered the player's actions throughout the level down to every minute detail.
@@tanukismokingweed”Let’s read a fuckton more praise of the developers into the original comment than there really is because I’m mad that a blue guy bodied me”
@@usurperzo On hard mode the artificial chaos definitely do some cheapshots where, because the camera is being shitty and the gravity on the tubes is janky, is pretty unfair to react to, especially when the enemy itself is off screen.
I thought this stage was aight. music is fire, the funny drums didn’t give me too much trouble, and it was fun to blitz through (and die multiple times) this stage, and then beat the crap out of sonic in the best rival battle in the game
The difference is that Chase's opening has a long rail section at the beginning. I guess they thought it was non-interactive enough to be a potential pace-breaker if you need to retry, especially multiple times.
I think the devs forgot to delete the hidden rail because that section from 8:10 to 11:30 was reused in Final Rush which would explain why there was no reward for finding it, but I don’t know if this was in Final Rush.
While I can understand the criticisms of final chase, I've actually learned to appreciate the gravity tubes and what they add to the level. A lot of them can be skipped entirely or mitigated through smart spin dash jumps, and just holding up will spin you around a lot more consistently than with the jank feeling of trying to navigate it normally. The rotation of the tubes usually puts you in perfect range with what you want to hit (such as the handle, or an easy homing attack into the springs) later on with the laser barriers, I actually never see these, as the route I like to take avoids it, I think this is supposed to be the "fail path" that a lot of sonic games have in their design, with the lowest route being the slowest to traverse to punish in a softer way than death. Maybe final chase isn't the best level in the game, but personally I think learning to optimize and beat the level quickly to be quite rewarding, a lot more than say... Pyramid cave, or crazy gadget. However, missing the rail in the final rush/chase hole is actually a crime against humanity, I can't count the amount of pain that has brought me.
By learning to appreciate you mean malded so hard you stopped malding, I'm with you. I like Final Chase, and I'm used to the gravity and can exploit it a bit, but it's still janky and inconsistent and DEFINITELY probably the low point for a lot of people in the game who might be less experienced with videogames. I kinda wish it was less of a roadblock for first time players and kids, and it was a bit more polished but I guess through slamming my head against a brick wall enough times, I grew accustomed to the jank ^^;
@@LunarPurin Adventure 2 was (I think) my first sonic game and final chase was not what I'd personally consider the biggest roadblock. Whether or not its well designed or "fun", the tubes are generally not going to lead to your death and you can force a way forward. Crazy Gadget was significantly worse for me, as a first time player won't be able to know what their goal is in terms of certain gravity switch puzzles and the entire end of the level, which is designed in such a way you can be baited into killing yourself by attempting to maneuver to areas the game didn't want you to go to without clearly letting the player know that wasn't where they were supposed to go.
Those holes should've been automated, just to ensure that Sonic and Shadow hit the rails. I recently got SA2 on Steam, and it was actually my first time playing many of the levels I never reached as a kid. I'm stuck on the Biolizard fight, but Sky Rail was by far the most frustrating part, partially because it was so hard landing on the rails with a keyboard, but mostly because of this one enemy that could only be killed by pushing it off a cliff with a somersault. Unfortunately, I kept somersaulting off the cliff with it until I learned to ignore it and just go on with the level.
I figured the main gimmick of the level would be the reason that ultimately holds it back(though the “hidden” rail is an interesting surprise. Nice find ZZ), but I still have fun with this level when replaying it and the stage music is one of the best in the game, which is an honor with how many absolute legendary bangers there are in SA2.
The hidden rail is almost certainly "cut content" that the devs didn't have time to actually remove. There's a lot of examples of this if you look carefully enough (stuff like "unreachable" rings, random platforms, etc)
I always liked the drums. Never took me more than a minute to adjust to the momentum of spinning around them. Just dont fight against them and use the rotation to send you where you need to go
5:16 When I reached this part I was like: "hmm, I wonder if he'll mention the upper path". When you seemingly skipped it I was slightly bummed out only to be surprised bu the post-edit note which shortly shows the path. Emotional rollercoaster.
I feel like with the Mystic Light section, it is designed as an introduction to the ability. I'm pretty sure that Shadow's Mystic Light is the only one you can obtain on a first playthrough of each level, and as the last level of the Dark Story, the Main Story that seems like it was designed to be played second, it would make Final Chase the last standard level in the game. With this in mind, this easy Mystic Light, and the very obvious teleportation example it provides, is meant to give the player a good idea of what the ability does before they start replaying the rest of the stages and finding the ability with other characters.
One of the things you didn't mention on how awful those gravity tubes are, is that if you get hit while on them, you lose all your rings with almost no way of getting them back. They just bounce off and fall into the void, meaning if you get hit even once while on one, it becomes extremely easy to get hit again and die. It's way to punishing, even for a final level.
Funny how the rings pointed to a harder path as Shadow, but help you in everything as Sonic, really shows their perspectives about their trusting in others
Binal Base I actually like final chase, lots of opportunities to spin dash jump across wide gaps to progress faster and feel really cool about yourself Especially the final tube you can just fall down onto the goal ring instead
I feel like the hidden rail is either a cut Mystic Melody path or it's a leftover from Final Rush, as that general area is used in both Final levels (and it's also the area you go through on the last of Cosmic Wall's automated sections, right before reaching the drill). I'd check it myself but I don't have anything hooked up that can play SA2 at the moment.
Maybe they had issues with the controls and what direction moves you where, and that's why they did the spinning? And those ones that don't spin they left in because you can only be on 1 side? Idk, but even outside of that they're super jank when walking over the little gaps between them, or the tops like you showed. Definitely not polished enough
Maybe if they had 6 months or another year this stage wouldn't have even existed tbh, it feels like it was slapped together probably because it was slapped together at the very last minute, remember shadow wasn't meant to be playable at first
See, I love the aesthetic and energy of these SA levels. The challenge of reacting and maneuvering Boost Sonic is fun, but I don’t blame fans for missing THIS type of level design and control. I wanna spindash jump across the hill tops!
This is actually one of my favourite levels, the gravity drums are actually really fun. Especially when you learn how to use them. Aside from that the level design is also pretty fun, the lost chao is hidden in a pretty funny spot, actually took me a while to find it.
About the empty platform with the grind rail that has no reason to exist, someone did a hard mode mod to make the last missions even harder, and they put the Golden Beetle up there.
Maybe the "Mystery Platform" was the original destination of the mystic melody portal? They were probably worried that it cut out too much of the level and changed it to the current destination, neglecting to delete the platform and rail as their intended audience probably wouldn't notice it or be able to access it.
8:50 This is likely an asset left over by sonics Final Rush stage. This section is nearly identical to a section within Final Rush given the particular L shape. The familiarity of which would make sense as it would feel as if you are trying to chase down Sonic, going through areas he just recently traversed. Development wise, Sonic Adventure is pretty keen on reusing assets between stages. Sky rail borrows stuff from pumpkin hill, death chamber, and egg quarters are basically the same level and countless of reused assets from the kart and city levels. So it wouldn't surprise me if they cut on development time by reusing sonics part of the stage.
a part of me wonder if the grind rails show at 8:53 was the original place the mystic melody was supposed to send you. But then there another problem with the grind rail or the camera not working right. So they decided just to move the portal somewhere else and forgot to change that area of the level.
I think the first portal was just where you originally get the item so it wasn't meant to really send you anywhere, you go up and grab it then it puts you right back on the path, the second is for the secret path for the Chao mission
Genuine question- would you ever consider covering the Treasure Hunting stages? All this talk about meteors has me thinking about how much i struggled the first dozen times i played through Meteor Herd and Mad Space also funny story- the first time I played Meteor Herd as omochao was telling me to watch out for the meteors he got interrupted by getting struck by one lmfao
@@KOTEBANAROT like i said it was the first dozen or so times that gave me SO much trouble. The hints felt like no help and the level feels twice as big as Pumpkin Hill and not nearly as smooth to traverse. It used to take me upwards of 30 minutes to get through when i was a kid. ive obviously gotten better at them since my naiive middleschool days with my dreamcast. aside from being more familiar with the layout i now have the steam version and the help of my handy dandy SA1 Radar mod that readjusts the radar so all 3 slots are active.
Personally, I really like this stage for the many opportunities you have to get through situations and spindash jumps and I think the flow of the level is much better once you get to interact with the mechanic instead of avoiding it which is a problem I see people have with sonic games in general (S3&K specially). I don't really mind the drums spinning on their own, there would be no point if they weren't spinning honestly, I'm guessing they tried to recreate those ones from s3&k into 3D, my problem with them is that you can't perform spindashes on them, and I think the game would allow for a lot of speedrun strategies and ways to get through situations if you had more control over them, that would make the level better for me. Anyways, since you mentioned Final Rush, are you planning on making a video about it? It's my favorite level in the entire series because of the million of ways you can manipulate the level design at your own benefit using momentum physics, it's what I consider peak sonic level design. And btw, do you have plans on making videos about the other gameplay styles? I would really like to hear your thoughts about levels like pumpkin hill, hidden base, etc
To compensate, those electric gates should spin. Replace some meteors with artificial chaos gaurding the drums to attack Shadow and you have I urgency again.
The design of this stage makes it somewhat annoying to spin dash jump off the top of the drums, and that last spiral before the end is absolute hell to manage on Hard Mode with all the meteors and sending your rings off into the ether with a single hit.
I remember one time I was jumping around the horizontal spinning tubes later on in the level, and one of my badly-aimed jumps nearly "returned me to the planet", so to speak, but I managed to get myself back within a tube's gravitational pull. However, Shadow yelled as if I did actually fall, and went into his "burning-up" animation, even though I was running around the tube and still in full control. And then the screen faded to black, and I was returned to the previous checkpoint, minus one life. I must've just barely touched a poorly-placed death plane there, and yeah, I wasn't happy with that unfair death.
11:31-That's one of the warmest line deliveries I think Humphrey has ever done as Shadow. You can hear how fond of the Ark he is, like he's back in his old neighborhood where everybody still lives.
My biggest problem about the drums isn't even about them spinning you and "fighting you", I accept that as a platforming challenge, but the classic jank that you discussed (like how you were "tripping" on the top of them) can ruin my jumps and end up with me falling into the void and forcing me to restart the level so I can A rank it. (I'm currently trying to A rank all characters. Already finished Sonic's stages, and I'm on the 5th mission on this level for Shadow)
Dude I haven't gotten a notification from you in like a month or so so I come to check up and you back uploading the fire SA2 level reviews. CZcams got me fucked up
Really enjoy your SA2 videos, got the game because of them and completed everything but the Chao Emblems now. Went back while playing and watched all your SA2 Videos and was sad to see you have not every stage covered, so i'm happy to see you finally cover the stage, which frustrated me quite a bit while A ranking everything. As always just a really enjoyable video.
I have a feeling this stage was thrown in at the end half of development to give shadow a final level equivalent of final rush because of the janky mechanics of this level, considering only sonic, knuckles, and eggman were supposed to be playable at the beginning of development, and especially in contrast with final rushes mechanics being very well polished, even if they were the same rails that were used for a lot of the game, they probably just had to CHASE this one out the door.... I'll see myself out. They already had to give shadow a sonic stage so he'd have more stages (sky rail to be specific) so it wouldn't surprise me.
Final Rush being polished? Not for me! I would loose speed on the loopdy loop grinds EVERY TIME, no matter how much speed I gained. It was clearly bugged, whereas I had no trouble with Final Chase.
The confusing platform/rail to nowhere must have been a leftover from an earlier point in development where that platform was likely meant to be another alternate route or something to that effect.
The spinning drums are meant to be a callback to those round balls in Sonic 3 special stages that would draw you in and spin you around and you had to time your jump off of them. Surprised nobody's mentioned this.
My theory about the out of place platform and grind rail is that it was originally where they were going to make the Mystic Melody shrine portal you to, but they changed the end point for whatever reason. With the final portal locations in place, the devs never bothered to finish the route (hence the camera and rail shooting you to nowhere), and since the path was out of the way, they figured that it wasn’t worth the time of removing.
If you play with mods, you can use spin dash on the spinning drums which makes the entire stage far more enjoyable. It's amazing to me that the level designers actively decided to make the stage less fun. It's like how they decided not to give Shadow the bounce bracelet which makes all of Sonic's stages more enjoyable without giving Shadow an alternate ability that Sonic doesn't have. Lucky you can also use mods to give Shadow the bounce bracelet too With mods, this stage literally goes from the worst action stage to one of the bests imo. The only issue that's still there with mods is that Shadow still goes oops when you land on top of the drums sometimes but you can still spin dash while on top of them As problematic as this stage can be, it's still not the stage that has the worst gravity mechanics. That goes to Mad Space
Mad Space is surprisingly ok once you play the level enough to learn where things are. You'll usually have to go to the one planet with fucked gravity once, but you don't have to spend much time there, and it only gets bad if the shard is on the platform at its south pole
To me, the worst part about the gravity drums were the weird movement stutters when running along them. Just when you think you're about to perfectly time a jump or run past an electrical hazard, you stumble and miss your opportunity. I've got a very specific muscle-memory route for getting through those sections, and any time I deviate from it, I run into that problem.
If I had to guess I'd probably say this is one of the last levels that was made during development, with playable shadow likely being a late addition, and this being the last stage in his story, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason so much stuff with this stage is weird is because it could have been made toward the end of development and sonic team might have been running out of time.
Are you going to do Final Rush too? It’s the same thing but far better. There’s so many secret places and alternate pathways that blew my mind as a kid.
My guess for the platform with the rail that don't amount to anything is that it was probably going to be another path that you could take in the level, but was cut either for design or time issues, and the devs just forgot to remove it
I think that one random grind rail platform that you have to homing attack up to was meant to be the mystic melody teleportation spot. That after you get the melody you get transported there for an instant and fast speed boost on the rail and allowing you to skip a few sections for taking the detour. But in the end got replaced by the much much worse spot right on the main path, as well as leaving the other area blank and unfulfilling
I think the platform at 10:00 was to give the impression that there are mulitple path on a maze like Space Ark, instead of a merely linear path through space. Since most platforms are copied, has arrows showing downwards.
Ok that completely useless rail and platform totally took me off-guard, I've never noticed that in my life, no wonder even devs probably forgot about that, it seems they were going to make another path for that section, but as they were building the level they forgot about it and that incomplete section was left by accident, kinda like those leftovers from Green Forest's old layout in White Jungle. The Omochao explanation in Final Chase is another one of hundreds mistranslations this game has, I was just about to compare to the Japanese one until you've shown on screen. And I'm not exaggerating when saying "hundreds" because I made the Retranslated Hints mod so if you ever make a video on Treasure Hunting levels and look at the normal English hints... omg there is just so many mistakes, misspellings, lack of information and outright wrong indications all around, some of them can easily kill the player's experience (looking at you, Mad Space) and there were times where I genuinely saw some players being stuck on some of these levels because of translation errors. No wonder when I watch Japanese players they seem to have a much easier time in these levels.
6:50 I read that "wait what" part in Shadow's voice because it's typeset like a subtitle in the game, same font and all. Those who never played the game might assume that's what he really says there, lol.
Just like I see Crazy Gadget's gravitational changes as a 3D form of the Death Egg Zone mechanic from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, keeping the camera upside up even when the player is upside down, I see the same thing with the spinning tubes here in Final Chase, a 3D form of the spinning cylinders in Launch Base Zone, so I understand the constant spinning instead or being able to control where you are on the cylinder by moving left or right, and I think I like this way, it also works better with the mechanics added on the tube by the level I think, but it would be cool if you could move left or right instead of automatic spinning, or even both spin and being able to move left or right, or/and if there were more stationary tubes ALONG with the spinning tubes
Would that random rail not be old assets from final rush? It looks like the section in Sonic’s level that they just didn’t take out when making shadows level.
I think this stage is super fun for the amount it lets you skip with spindash jumps, plus I’ve gotten pretty used to the jank from my A Rank quest. But, is a stage really good if you get the most enjoyment out of not playing it?
I guess there is a reference how Shadow was sucked into his past making him always angry and serious but also confused about his purpose just like how confuse and hard is to get good at those tubes
Final Chase is prob the most fun level in all of SA2 for me cus of the unique grav mechanics. I think the problem u have IS the fact that u're fightin it. This is an issue I see ppl have ALL the time in games cus they frustratingly want things to go EXACTLY how they want 100% (i.e. have full control all the time) but the way I say to treat it is like a river(or jus water in general lol). DON'T FIGHT IT, just let it do ITS thing & flow along with it & u'll get where u want to be. U can't have full control of everythin in life or in games lol
The mystic melody part is where you get the abilty lmao, that's why it sends you back to the main level. You just got it and the game shows you how it works and also gets you back on path. That bit was still funny tho, and I enjoyed the vid overall.=)
Interesting you say City Escape doesn't have a checkpoint after the snowboard section. I think some version of the map does. Maybe its the Dreamcast version, or was in 2-player mode? I can't remember. But the opening segment of Final Chase looks like a modified copy of part of Final Rush. Where you're coming off a long rail and see a checkpoint just before a slope. I guess they just left it in when they copied it.
I used to hate this stage on my first playthrough. But upon repeated plays trying for an all A rank(included the extra missions) it's actually grown on me. Where in my first time playing I was fighting against the mechanic to go where I wanted, later attempts just had me holding a single direction and going with the flow, occasionally jumping over/around obstacles like the fences. This approach makes the stage significantly easier to navigate. Even the platform you mentioned @ 3:40 can be easily reached by just walking off the edge instead of worrying about timing a jump.
most of those gravity tubes can be completely skipped over though...especially the one at the very end-- when the rocket explodes and you start falling, hold the control stick "Shadow-Forward" (which, with the camera, is somewhere in the bottom-left corner) and youll have just enough clearance to avoid getting stuck to the tube...that way, instead of 'just holding Down' until you get to the Spring (that you have to time a jump onto), all you do is Fall...shortly after youre in freefall, the camera will whip back around to be behind Shadow (where it should be) so just make sure you line yourself up with the GoalRing platform as you see it load in
Playing this game on the PS3, I thought this level was pretty fun when I got the movement on the spinning drums right. Instead of awkwardly causing Shadow to nearly vomit from dizziness, I was actually working with the drums instead of fighting them.
There's a lot about your video I agree about here, regarding aspects like one of the worst Hidden Chao goal paths in the game and lackluster options to experiment with the stage - I especially get how generally uncooperative the tubes can be, as how often their physics bug out entirely and halt you wholesale ruins any part of their inclusion that seems fun. All of your criticisms are valid, and non-rotating barrels would definitely make the level more approachable and stable in many places, as well as offer more design opportunities with their usage. I'm gonna go to bat for their auto-rotation, though, after thinking about it for quite a while and playing through the stage a handful of times myself to refresh on how it feels to play. For me, this level is all in cementing your confidence in having mastered the game's controls, and the barrels just slot right into that idea. It's the Dark Story's final stage, which most players will take second due to its general higher complexity and second billing in the menus, letting it demand more from you. Storywise, it's come right after Shadow's had his core status as the original "Ultimate Lifeform" questioned with receipts, and the music is lyrically pushing to reassure his confidence in his own being and purpose. In gameplay, the barrels are challenging your own confidence directly, much like how Rouge had just challenged Shadow's. They take control of your center of gravity and force you to constantly move with their rotation, asking you if you're able to roll with their limitations with the same confidence and ability you've displayed up to this point. Another commenter, and you yourself mentioned that most of them can be gotten through by just holding forwards - and even on the barrels with obstacles, this is wholly true approaching from the right angle (as long as the physics don't randomly stutter-stop you). Either you blaze onwards with full confidence in your path towards the goal, or you hesitate to fight for control in an uncontrollable situation and crumble. Also a side-theory on the boring Mystic Melody - it's the only one in the game that isn't hidden away via backtracking into an older level's side paths. Shadow's melody is almost intended to be accidentally ran into, with the pillar honestly being easier for a new player to try and run onto its top on purpose for an easier jump, and you're almost guaranteed to see it from there. This melody is probably there to both teach the player that those statues are meant for this upgrade - implying that every character has it and you just haven't found the thing, since statues are in every level - and exactly what the melody does with the portal you can see the endpoint of right away.
I honestly didn't know that the final chase tubes were this glitchy. Probably because I blitz through those sections with them in like 10 seconds because spin dash jumping is absolutely cracked.
Has some of the best shadow sa2 music and my favorite level I like more than city escape because of the challenge and the ultimate goal to chase sonic I'm surprised you didn't talked about the music as it so good to decode and what it's about is shadow's inner struggling of himself
Honestly my gospel for SAB2 knowledge. One of my favorite games on my gamecube, I still have my chao from back then. Whenever you upload I get the itch to reinstall the game on steam.
It's VERY worth the steam purchase. The port is janky as heck of course but a couple super easy mods fix it and then you're free to enjoy the game in crisp HD. ...And whatever other enhancements you decide to mod in, like a totally expanded Chao system or cleaner textures.
I actually played Sonic Adventure 2 for the first time recently and I remember having a hard time on this level. I kept dying and was on my last life. Upon finishing it, I was relieved lol. I kinda felt this level was a bit janky but I thought it was just me being bad at the level. But overall it was worth it! I finished the game and that final boss with Live and Learn in the background was an amazing experience. I really enjoyed this video! I would definitely go back to check out the other paths, thanks to this video and to get a better rank (as well as the other levels) but I’m actually gonna play Sonic Heroes for the first time so that would have to wait :)
I wouldn't be surprised if that leftover rail is was meant to be joined to one of those 3 route drops. one would spit you out on the longer path, one would drop you on the much easier one that would toss you off at the end of the alley.
Also, you forgot to mention the stupid spring at the bottom of the tube that leads to the Mystic Melody upgrade, if you touch that spring you'll literally be launched out of the platform you're supposed to land, depending on you direction you might be able to grab the ledge of the platform, but it clearly doesn't seem it was intentional. This level just reeks an "out of time" aura, so many weird objects positioning and unpolished mechanic, they really needed more time to polish this level.
the mysterious platform at 9:30 might be something for one of the challenge levels? did you check that? not a criticism just legitimately curious what it's for and brainstorming with myself
"Based on what?"
Ji
K
First
Awesome video
Based on what?
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If they replaced it with stationary tubes the level would need a drastic redesign I think. They designed the level with the rotation in mind, the gate section wouldn’t even be worth including if not for this. I always felt the intent of this mechanic is to just move forward and back not side to side at all and just focus on timing your movement. I suspect many of these sections if timed properly you can just rush forward through avoiding all gates and asteroids without slowing down.
I haven't played it myself. But it looks like a mechanical call back to the spinning tube gimmick found in Sonic 3 in Carnival Night. I can agree that it is not visually intuitive for SA 2 to have an invisible force spin you around a tube that appears stationary.
@@DARamosYT I got more of a feeling of (I think) Flying Battery from S&K, with the spinning cylinders and the occasional need for timing, just on the outside, rather than the inside.
That's what I do when I play the level.
For me the biggest problem with the tubes isn't the spinning but the weird clunky geometry, if the tubes were smooth objects I think i it'd be more reasonable.
Yeah, that's how I usually play this stage, just rush through the drums. It takes a few attempts to understand the timings, but I still got that muscle memory from playing this game as a kid. Also, I'm pretty sure you can slightly speed up or slow down the rotation by running diagonally.
Fun fact: Final Chase has a 1 up box even in multiplayer. I think it's the only stage that does.
Final Rush also has one.
Where?
@@CrystalGreymon I know Final Rush has one in the area with the big walls on both sides, the area right before the lost chao of that stage. It's right below the start of that area.
If you embrace the rotation the tubes provide, things feel right to me and they just tend to line up.
Yeah I’m not great at this game, but I’ve never had any problem with these. I just hold up on the joystick and go fast, and the level goes pretty smoothly
Yeah I just ran fast and thus got out of them fast. I treat them like auto-scrollers, no different from tubes in Crazy Gadget or in old Sonic games. Not sure if it’s worse on PC.
Yeah, they work much better if you just hold forward and let the game take the wheel.
Love how ZoomZike always ends these videos with him finishing the level in the same amount of time as the length of the video. Gotta love the attention to detail there.
God I never noticed wow
WAIT! So basically I've been gollowing this series since the sonic forces level analisis, and I haven't noticied this detail in all this time!? Holy crap dude, this guy is even better than I already think he was.
Holy shit, I never noticed. That's awesome!
Oh that's awesome!
Good eye, that's absolutely nutty lol
The thing about Final Chase for me was that it wasn't about freedom of movement, but going with the flow. Not an autorunning level like some of the current games but that if your timing is right and you don't mess up, the spinning drums perfectly moves you that allows you to blast through everything. You can go REALLY fast through this level once you get the timing right and combined with the music, this level feels unforgettable to me.
Just like Shadow himself, he isn't about freedom, he is about fulfilling the demands of people, he just goes along with it whether it be destruction of the world or saving it...
Except the parts where Shadow just decides to not magnetize towards the tube or you get clipped by an Artificial Chaos. But yeah let's pretend the devs on a rushed product perfectly considered the player's actions throughout the level down to every minute detail.
@@tanukismokingweed”Let’s read a fuckton more praise of the developers into the original comment than there really is because I’m mad that a blue guy bodied me”
@@Sealedawaybro thinks the enemies should never be allowed to touch him
@@usurperzo On hard mode the artificial chaos definitely do some cheapshots where, because the camera is being shitty and the gravity on the tubes is janky, is pretty unfair to react to, especially when the enemy itself is off screen.
The transition from Green Forest to Metal Harbor at 0:32 was perfect, it had me confused for a second.
It's so fucking good. First thing I did was comment and second came down to see who else said anything
I was going to say that
I thought this stage was aight. music is fire, the funny drums didn’t give me too much trouble, and it was fun to blitz through (and die multiple times) this stage, and then beat the crap out of sonic in the best rival battle in the game
The difference is that Chase's opening has a long rail section at the beginning. I guess they thought it was non-interactive enough to be a potential pace-breaker if you need to retry, especially multiple times.
I think the devs forgot to delete the hidden rail because that section from 8:10 to 11:30 was reused in Final Rush which would explain why there was no reward for finding it, but I don’t know if this was in Final Rush.
While I can understand the criticisms of final chase, I've actually learned to appreciate the gravity tubes and what they add to the level. A lot of them can be skipped entirely or mitigated through smart spin dash jumps, and just holding up will spin you around a lot more consistently than with the jank feeling of trying to navigate it normally. The rotation of the tubes usually puts you in perfect range with what you want to hit (such as the handle, or an easy homing attack into the springs) later on with the laser barriers, I actually never see these, as the route I like to take avoids it, I think this is supposed to be the "fail path" that a lot of sonic games have in their design, with the lowest route being the slowest to traverse to punish in a softer way than death. Maybe final chase isn't the best level in the game, but personally I think learning to optimize and beat the level quickly to be quite rewarding, a lot more than say... Pyramid cave, or crazy gadget.
However, missing the rail in the final rush/chase hole is actually a crime against humanity, I can't count the amount of pain that has brought me.
By learning to appreciate you mean malded so hard you stopped malding, I'm with you.
I like Final Chase, and I'm used to the gravity and can exploit it a bit, but it's still janky and inconsistent and DEFINITELY probably the low point for a lot of people in the game who might be less experienced with videogames.
I kinda wish it was less of a roadblock for first time players and kids, and it was a bit more polished but I guess through slamming my head against a brick wall enough times, I grew accustomed to the jank ^^;
@@LunarPurin Adventure 2 was (I think) my first sonic game and final chase was not what I'd personally consider the biggest roadblock. Whether or not its well designed or "fun", the tubes are generally not going to lead to your death and you can force a way forward. Crazy Gadget was significantly worse for me, as a first time player won't be able to know what their goal is in terms of certain gravity switch puzzles and the entire end of the level, which is designed in such a way you can be baited into killing yourself by attempting to maneuver to areas the game didn't want you to go to without clearly letting the player know that wasn't where they were supposed to go.
@@Namingway248 Okay, Crazy Gadget was awful. I remember buying an action replay cos I couldn't beat it :c
Those holes should've been automated, just to ensure that Sonic and Shadow hit the rails. I recently got SA2 on Steam, and it was actually my first time playing many of the levels I never reached as a kid. I'm stuck on the Biolizard fight, but Sky Rail was by far the most frustrating part, partially because it was so hard landing on the rails with a keyboard, but mostly because of this one enemy that could only be killed by pushing it off a cliff with a somersault. Unfortunately, I kept somersaulting off the cliff with it until I learned to ignore it and just go on with the level.
Getting used to bad game design doesn't fix the bad game design.
I figured the main gimmick of the level would be the reason that ultimately holds it back(though the “hidden” rail is an interesting surprise. Nice find ZZ), but I still have fun with this level when replaying it and the stage music is one of the best in the game, which is an honor with how many absolute legendary bangers there are in SA2.
The hidden rail is almost certainly "cut content" that the devs didn't have time to actually remove. There's a lot of examples of this if you look carefully enough (stuff like "unreachable" rings, random platforms, etc)
I always liked the drums. Never took me more than a minute to adjust to the momentum of spinning around them. Just dont fight against them and use the rotation to send you where you need to go
5:16
When I reached this part I was like: "hmm, I wonder if he'll mention the upper path". When you seemingly skipped it I was slightly bummed out only to be surprised bu the post-edit note which shortly shows the path. Emotional rollercoaster.
I always take that path
I feel like with the Mystic Light section, it is designed as an introduction to the ability. I'm pretty sure that Shadow's Mystic Light is the only one you can obtain on a first playthrough of each level, and as the last level of the Dark Story, the Main Story that seems like it was designed to be played second, it would make Final Chase the last standard level in the game. With this in mind, this easy Mystic Light, and the very obvious teleportation example it provides, is meant to give the player a good idea of what the ability does before they start replaying the rest of the stages and finding the ability with other characters.
Sonic can get his Mystic Melody on the first playthrough of Final Rush as well.
Not like you ZoomZike, you're based :)
basement
One of the things you didn't mention on how awful those gravity tubes are, is that if you get hit while on them, you lose all your rings with almost no way of getting them back. They just bounce off and fall into the void, meaning if you get hit even once while on one, it becomes extremely easy to get hit again and die. It's way to punishing, even for a final level.
Funny how the rings pointed to a harder path as Shadow, but help you in everything as Sonic, really shows their perspectives about their trusting in others
Binal Base
I actually like final chase, lots of opportunities to spin dash jump across wide gaps to progress faster and feel really cool about yourself
Especially the final tube you can just fall down onto the goal ring instead
The last spiral is absolute hell to manage on Hard Mode
Nah just avoid it by jumping off toward the goal ring
Same, same. I can definitely see how it can be annoying, though.
Bogos binted?
yeah it definitely was more annoying than intended but once you learn to exploit them its quite fun
I feel like the hidden rail is either a cut Mystic Melody path or it's a leftover from Final Rush, as that general area is used in both Final levels (and it's also the area you go through on the last of Cosmic Wall's automated sections, right before reaching the drill). I'd check it myself but I don't have anything hooked up that can play SA2 at the moment.
Maybe they had issues with the controls and what direction moves you where, and that's why they did the spinning? And those ones that don't spin they left in because you can only be on 1 side? Idk, but even outside of that they're super jank when walking over the little gaps between them, or the tops like you showed. Definitely not polished enough
Maybe if they had 6 months or another year this stage wouldn't have even existed tbh, it feels like it was slapped together probably because it was slapped together at the very last minute, remember shadow wasn't meant to be playable at first
See, I love the aesthetic and energy of these SA levels.
The challenge of reacting and maneuvering Boost Sonic is fun, but I don’t blame fans for missing THIS type of level design and control.
I wanna spindash jump across the hill tops!
How 'bout both? Just imagine how sick a boosting spin dash would be
This is actually one of my favourite levels, the gravity drums are actually really fun. Especially when you learn how to use them. Aside from that the level design is also pretty fun, the lost chao is hidden in a pretty funny spot, actually took me a while to find it.
About the empty platform with the grind rail that has no reason to exist, someone did a hard mode mod to make the last missions even harder, and they put the Golden Beetle up there.
Maybe the "Mystery Platform" was the original destination of the mystic melody portal? They were probably worried that it cut out too much of the level and changed it to the current destination, neglecting to delete the platform and rail as their intended audience probably wouldn't notice it or be able to access it.
8:50
This is likely an asset left over by sonics Final Rush stage. This section is nearly identical to a section within Final Rush given the particular L shape.
The familiarity of which would make sense as it would feel as if you are trying to chase down Sonic, going through areas he just recently traversed.
Development wise, Sonic Adventure is pretty keen on reusing assets between stages. Sky rail borrows stuff from pumpkin hill, death chamber, and egg quarters are basically the same level and countless of reused assets from the kart and city levels. So it wouldn't surprise me if they cut on development time by reusing sonics part of the stage.
The virgin "barrel of doom" vs the Chad "spinning drum"
a part of me wonder if the grind rails show at 8:53 was the original place the mystic melody was supposed to send you. But then there another problem with the grind rail or the camera not working right. So they decided just to move the portal somewhere else and forgot to change that area of the level.
I think the first portal was just where you originally get the item so it wasn't meant to really send you anywhere, you go up and grab it then it puts you right back on the path, the second is for the secret path for the Chao mission
Genuine question- would you ever consider covering the Treasure Hunting stages? All this talk about meteors has me thinking about how much i struggled the first dozen times i played through Meteor Herd and Mad Space
also funny story- the first time I played Meteor Herd as omochao was telling me to watch out for the meteors he got interrupted by getting struck by one lmfao
Mad Space can die in a fire.
Mad space is pretty punishing if you dont know the routes but meteor herd is no harder than pumpkin hill its so easy to traverse
@@KOTEBANAROT like i said it was the first dozen or so times that gave me SO much trouble. The hints felt like no help and the level feels twice as big as Pumpkin Hill and not nearly as smooth to traverse. It used to take me upwards of 30 minutes to get through when i was a kid. ive obviously gotten better at them since my naiive middleschool days with my dreamcast. aside from being more familiar with the layout i now have the steam version and the help of my handy dandy SA1 Radar mod that readjusts the radar so all 3 slots are active.
Personally, I really like this stage for the many opportunities you have to get through situations and spindash jumps and I think the flow of the level is much better once you get to interact with the mechanic instead of avoiding it which is a problem I see people have with sonic games in general (S3&K specially).
I don't really mind the drums spinning on their own, there would be no point if they weren't spinning honestly, I'm guessing they tried to recreate those ones from s3&k into 3D, my problem with them is that you can't perform spindashes on them, and I think the game would allow for a lot of speedrun strategies and ways to get through situations if you had more control over them, that would make the level better for me.
Anyways, since you mentioned Final Rush, are you planning on making a video about it? It's my favorite level in the entire series because of the million of ways you can manipulate the level design at your own benefit using momentum physics, it's what I consider peak sonic level design. And btw, do you have plans on making videos about the other gameplay styles? I would really like to hear your thoughts about levels like pumpkin hill, hidden base, etc
I wonder if there is a mod that replaces the spinning drums with the stationary ones, I'd like to see how it plays.
I bet someone will work on it after seeing this video
To compensate, those electric gates should spin. Replace some meteors with artificial chaos gaurding the drums to attack Shadow and you have I urgency again.
Played this game for nearly 20 years over and over and never knew about that rail... showing it actually made my heart jump! Nice find
0:33 the cut between Green Forest and Metal Harbor was a thing of beauty. Great editing!
The design of this stage makes it somewhat annoying to spin dash jump off the top of the drums, and that last spiral before the end is absolute hell to manage on Hard Mode with all the meteors and sending your rings off into the ether with a single hit.
I know it's one day late, but happy birthday ZoomZike! Hope it was a good one. Keep that top-tier gaming/Mario Party content coming!
I actually like this stage. The pathways are fun, the tubes can be fun when you’re used to them and the song is one of my favourites in the game.
Skill Issue.
I remember one time I was jumping around the horizontal spinning tubes later on in the level, and one of my badly-aimed jumps nearly "returned me to the planet", so to speak, but I managed to get myself back within a tube's gravitational pull.
However, Shadow yelled as if I did actually fall, and went into his "burning-up" animation, even though I was running around the tube and still in full control. And then the screen faded to black, and I was returned to the previous checkpoint, minus one life. I must've just barely touched a poorly-placed death plane there, and yeah, I wasn't happy with that unfair death.
With the way the gravity drums work and the mystery platform and rail, this level feels like a first draft of a cool anti gravity level
11:31-That's one of the warmest line deliveries I think Humphrey has ever done as Shadow. You can hear how fond of the Ark he is, like he's back in his old neighborhood where everybody still lives.
My biggest problem about the drums isn't even about them spinning you and "fighting you", I accept that as a platforming challenge, but the classic jank that you discussed (like how you were "tripping" on the top of them) can ruin my jumps and end up with me falling into the void and forcing me to restart the level so I can A rank it. (I'm currently trying to A rank all characters. Already finished Sonic's stages, and I'm on the 5th mission on this level for Shadow)
Dude I haven't gotten a notification from you in like a month or so so I come to check up and you back uploading the fire SA2 level reviews.
CZcams got me fucked up
Any day that my boy ZoomZike puts up a SA2 video is instantly 50-70% better. Thank you for your contribution to the universe.
Really enjoy your SA2 videos, got the game because of them and completed everything but the Chao Emblems now. Went back while playing and watched all your SA2 Videos and was sad to see you have not every stage covered, so i'm happy to see you finally cover the stage, which frustrated me quite a bit while A ranking everything. As always just a really enjoyable video.
Glad to see you back making these stage analysis videos ZoomZike! It's some of your best content!~ 😆
I have a feeling this stage was thrown in at the end half of development to give shadow a final level equivalent of final rush because of the janky mechanics of this level, considering only sonic, knuckles, and eggman were supposed to be playable at the beginning of development, and especially in contrast with final rushes mechanics being very well polished, even if they were the same rails that were used for a lot of the game, they probably just had to CHASE this one out the door.... I'll see myself out. They already had to give shadow a sonic stage so he'd have more stages (sky rail to be specific) so it wouldn't surprise me.
Knuckles being intended from the start is weird because he does pretty much nothing in the story. He could have been cut with little effort.
Final Rush being polished? Not for me! I would loose speed on the loopdy loop grinds EVERY TIME, no matter how much speed I gained. It was clearly bugged, whereas I had no trouble with Final Chase.
@@DylanVA Critical question, did you try holding b on the grind rails? Asking to get more context.
I held forward on the stick, I didn't brake or press anything else
@@DylanVA You're supposed to hold b to go down the rails faster, that's how you get past some of the segments.
"so, fine, let's travel to the rail and see what's up. you'll find that it's clearly not us..."
a line so dumb yet so funny
I was just thinking "It's about time ZZ makes another video" before leaving work today
Sonic fans and drum based game mechanics are the definition of over thinking. Great video either way
Another ZoomZike Sonic analysis! Blessed be we! Perhaps one day you'll analyze Sonic Unleashed's stages, they have tons of details in them.
Yoooooo, that transition between the forest and the harbor at the start was clean as heck!
The confusing platform/rail to nowhere must have been a leftover from an earlier point in development where that platform was likely meant to be another alternate route or something to that effect.
The spinning drums are meant to be a callback to those round balls in Sonic 3 special stages that would draw you in and spin you around and you had to time your jump off of them. Surprised nobody's mentioned this.
My theory about the out of place platform and grind rail is that it was originally where they were going to make the Mystic Melody shrine portal you to, but they changed the end point for whatever reason. With the final portal locations in place, the devs never bothered to finish the route (hence the camera and rail shooting you to nowhere), and since the path was out of the way, they figured that it wasn’t worth the time of removing.
idk if you read comments but this video is so good please make more also im in love with the transition at 0:33 that was a beautiful touch
If you play with mods, you can use spin dash on the spinning drums which makes the entire stage far more enjoyable. It's amazing to me that the level designers actively decided to make the stage less fun. It's like how they decided not to give Shadow the bounce bracelet which makes all of Sonic's stages more enjoyable without giving Shadow an alternate ability that Sonic doesn't have. Lucky you can also use mods to give Shadow the bounce bracelet too
With mods, this stage literally goes from the worst action stage to one of the bests imo. The only issue that's still there with mods is that Shadow still goes oops when you land on top of the drums sometimes but you can still spin dash while on top of them
As problematic as this stage can be, it's still not the stage that has the worst gravity mechanics. That goes to Mad Space
Mad Space is surprisingly ok once you play the level enough to learn where things are. You'll usually have to go to the one planet with fucked gravity once, but you don't have to spend much time there, and it only gets bad if the shard is on the platform at its south pole
To me, the worst part about the gravity drums were the weird movement stutters when running along them. Just when you think you're about to perfectly time a jump or run past an electrical hazard, you stumble and miss your opportunity. I've got a very specific muscle-memory route for getting through those sections, and any time I deviate from it, I run into that problem.
I wonder if that random platform with the grind rail was where the mystic melody portal was supposed to go?
This makes me wish there was a mod called something like "Final Based" that make it where the tubes don't spin, it would be awesome.
If I had to guess I'd probably say this is one of the last levels that was made during development, with playable shadow likely being a late addition, and this being the last stage in his story, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason so much stuff with this stage is weird is because it could have been made toward the end of development and sonic team might have been running out of time.
Are you going to do Final Rush too? It’s the same thing but far better. There’s so many secret places and alternate pathways that blew my mind as a kid.
This series inspires me. I want to go back to some old games and do a deep analysis on them.
My guess for the platform with the rail that don't amount to anything is that it was probably going to be another path that you could take in the level, but was cut either for design or time issues, and the devs just forgot to remove it
0:30 - 0:33 you are not getting away with those smooth transitions
Waiting for the mod that fixes the tubes that will inevitably drop after this video. Anyway, good video mate. Love your content
1:45 "Spinning drums."
*flashbacks to Carnival Night Zone*
I think that one random grind rail platform that you have to homing attack up to was meant to be the mystic melody teleportation spot. That after you get the melody you get transported there for an instant and fast speed boost on the rail and allowing you to skip a few sections for taking the detour. But in the end got replaced by the much much worse spot right on the main path, as well as leaving the other area blank and unfulfilling
I think the platform at 10:00 was to give the impression that there are mulitple path on a maze like Space Ark, instead of a merely linear path through space. Since most platforms are copied, has arrows showing downwards.
Ok that completely useless rail and platform totally took me off-guard, I've never noticed that in my life, no wonder even devs probably forgot about that, it seems they were going to make another path for that section, but as they were building the level they forgot about it and that incomplete section was left by accident, kinda like those leftovers from Green Forest's old layout in White Jungle.
The Omochao explanation in Final Chase is another one of hundreds mistranslations this game has, I was just about to compare to the Japanese one until you've shown on screen.
And I'm not exaggerating when saying "hundreds" because I made the Retranslated Hints mod so if you ever make a video on Treasure Hunting levels and look at the normal English hints... omg there is just so many mistakes, misspellings, lack of information and outright wrong indications all around, some of them can easily kill the player's experience (looking at you, Mad Space) and there were times where I genuinely saw some players being stuck on some of these levels because of translation errors.
No wonder when I watch Japanese players they seem to have a much easier time in these levels.
At first I read the title as "Final Chase is not Bad" and I'm like "those are very bold words."
6:50 I read that "wait what" part in Shadow's voice because it's typeset like a subtitle in the game, same font and all. Those who never played the game might assume that's what he really says there, lol.
Can’t wait for u to analyse the open zone of sonic frontiers
Just like I see Crazy Gadget's gravitational changes as a 3D form of the Death Egg Zone mechanic from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, keeping the camera upside up even when the player is upside down, I see the same thing with the spinning tubes here in Final Chase, a 3D form of the spinning cylinders in Launch Base Zone, so I understand the constant spinning instead or being able to control where you are on the cylinder by moving left or right, and I think I like this way, it also works better with the mechanics added on the tube by the level I think, but it would be cool if you could move left or right instead of automatic spinning, or even both spin and being able to move left or right, or/and if there were more stationary tubes ALONG with the spinning tubes
I wonder if the disconnected rail wa was originally supposed to be where mystic melody lead you to but wasn't fully cut
Would that random rail not be old assets from final rush? It looks like the section in Sonic’s level that they just didn’t take out when making shadows level.
those drums are like the carnival night pillars. i had more trouble with those things than i did with the barrels.
I think this stage is super fun for the amount it lets you skip with spindash jumps, plus I’ve gotten pretty used to the jank from my A Rank quest. But, is a stage really good if you get the most enjoyment out of not playing it?
I guess there is a reference how Shadow was sucked into his past making him always angry and serious but also confused about his purpose just like how confuse and hard is to get good at those tubes
Final Chase is prob the most fun level in all of SA2 for me cus of the unique grav mechanics. I think the problem u have IS the fact that u're fightin it. This is an issue I see ppl have ALL the time in games cus they frustratingly want things to go EXACTLY how they want 100% (i.e. have full control all the time) but the way I say to treat it is like a river(or jus water in general lol). DON'T FIGHT IT, just let it do ITS thing & flow along with it & u'll get where u want to be. U can't have full control of everythin in life or in games lol
Yeah I've literally never had a problem with these, then again I've not played this level nearly as much as all the others
I don't think you saved much time by thinking all this abbreviations
I'll be honest this is one of my favorite stages. That said great vid. Loved the alliteration.
The mystic melody part is where you get the abilty lmao, that's why it sends you back to the main level. You just got it and the game shows you how it works and also gets you back on path.
That bit was still funny tho, and I enjoyed the vid overall.=)
Interesting you say City Escape doesn't have a checkpoint after the snowboard section. I think some version of the map does. Maybe its the Dreamcast version, or was in 2-player mode? I can't remember.
But the opening segment of Final Chase looks like a modified copy of part of Final Rush. Where you're coming off a long rail and see a checkpoint just before a slope. I guess they just left it in when they copied it.
the orphaned platform strikes me as either a remnant from a past iteration of the level, or something copied along from another version of this room
The rail area at 10:10 might be the scrapped mystic melody teleport location?
that pointless area with the strange rail and broken Camera, is it possible that the mystic melody portal was supposed to exit there?
I used to hate this stage on my first playthrough. But upon repeated plays trying for an all A rank(included the extra missions) it's actually grown on me. Where in my first time playing I was fighting against the mechanic to go where I wanted, later attempts just had me holding a single direction and going with the flow, occasionally jumping over/around obstacles like the fences. This approach makes the stage significantly easier to navigate. Even the platform you mentioned @ 3:40 can be easily reached by just walking off the edge instead of worrying about timing a jump.
most of those gravity tubes can be completely skipped over though...especially the one at the very end-- when the rocket explodes and you start falling, hold the control stick "Shadow-Forward" (which, with the camera, is somewhere in the bottom-left corner) and youll have just enough clearance to avoid getting stuck to the tube...that way, instead of 'just holding Down' until you get to the Spring (that you have to time a jump onto), all you do is Fall...shortly after youre in freefall, the camera will whip back around to be behind Shadow (where it should be) so just make sure you line yourself up with the GoalRing platform as you see it load in
Playing this game on the PS3, I thought this level was pretty fun when I got the movement on the spinning drums right. Instead of awkwardly causing Shadow to nearly vomit from dizziness, I was actually working with the drums instead of fighting them.
Good, I'm glad I wasn't the only person who thought this level was a total slog to play through
There's a lot about your video I agree about here, regarding aspects like one of the worst Hidden Chao goal paths in the game and lackluster options to experiment with the stage - I especially get how generally uncooperative the tubes can be, as how often their physics bug out entirely and halt you wholesale ruins any part of their inclusion that seems fun. All of your criticisms are valid, and non-rotating barrels would definitely make the level more approachable and stable in many places, as well as offer more design opportunities with their usage. I'm gonna go to bat for their auto-rotation, though, after thinking about it for quite a while and playing through the stage a handful of times myself to refresh on how it feels to play.
For me, this level is all in cementing your confidence in having mastered the game's controls, and the barrels just slot right into that idea. It's the Dark Story's final stage, which most players will take second due to its general higher complexity and second billing in the menus, letting it demand more from you. Storywise, it's come right after Shadow's had his core status as the original "Ultimate Lifeform" questioned with receipts, and the music is lyrically pushing to reassure his confidence in his own being and purpose.
In gameplay, the barrels are challenging your own confidence directly, much like how Rouge had just challenged Shadow's. They take control of your center of gravity and force you to constantly move with their rotation, asking you if you're able to roll with their limitations with the same confidence and ability you've displayed up to this point. Another commenter, and you yourself mentioned that most of them can be gotten through by just holding forwards - and even on the barrels with obstacles, this is wholly true approaching from the right angle (as long as the physics don't randomly stutter-stop you). Either you blaze onwards with full confidence in your path towards the goal, or you hesitate to fight for control in an uncontrollable situation and crumble.
Also a side-theory on the boring Mystic Melody - it's the only one in the game that isn't hidden away via backtracking into an older level's side paths. Shadow's melody is almost intended to be accidentally ran into, with the pillar honestly being easier for a new player to try and run onto its top on purpose for an easier jump, and you're almost guaranteed to see it from there. This melody is probably there to both teach the player that those statues are meant for this upgrade - implying that every character has it and you just haven't found the thing, since statues are in every level - and exactly what the melody does with the portal you can see the endpoint of right away.
Good video but there's a weird lack of BGM
I honestly didn't know that the final chase tubes were this glitchy. Probably because I blitz through those sections with them in like 10 seconds because spin dash jumping is absolutely cracked.
Has some of the best shadow sa2 music and my favorite level I like more than city escape because of the challenge and the ultimate goal to chase sonic I'm surprised you didn't talked about the music as it so good to decode and what it's about is shadow's inner struggling of himself
Mad Space is a prototype Mario Galaxy
Honestly my gospel for SAB2 knowledge. One of my favorite games on my gamecube, I still have my chao from back then.
Whenever you upload I get the itch to reinstall the game on steam.
It's VERY worth the steam purchase. The port is janky as heck of course but a couple super easy mods fix it and then you're free to enjoy the game in crisp HD. ...And whatever other enhancements you decide to mod in, like a totally expanded Chao system or cleaner textures.
I actually played Sonic Adventure 2 for the first time recently and I remember having a hard time on this level. I kept dying and was on my last life. Upon finishing it, I was relieved lol. I kinda felt this level was a bit janky but I thought it was just me being bad at the level. But overall it was worth it! I finished the game and that final boss with Live and Learn in the background was an amazing experience.
I really enjoyed this video! I would definitely go back to check out the other paths, thanks to this video and to get a better rank (as well as the other levels) but I’m actually gonna play Sonic Heroes for the first time so that would have to wait :)
I wouldn't be surprised if that leftover rail is was meant to be joined to one of those 3 route drops. one would spit you out on the longer path, one would drop you on the much easier one that would toss you off at the end of the alley.
Also, you forgot to mention the stupid spring at the bottom of the tube that leads to the Mystic Melody upgrade, if you touch that spring you'll literally be launched out of the platform you're supposed to land, depending on you direction you might be able to grab the ledge of the platform, but it clearly doesn't seem it was intentional.
This level just reeks an "out of time" aura, so many weird objects positioning and unpolished mechanic, they really needed more time to polish this level.
the mysterious platform at 9:30 might be something for one of the challenge levels? did you check that? not a criticism just legitimately curious what it's for and brainstorming with myself
huh
maybe that platform and rail was the intended location for the mystic melody portal to drop you off at?
and they just never finished it